S10.E21: The Separation Agitation

[rmontro]

6 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

And he makes dinner!  After a long day of work, that would be plenty for me!

I liked that episode a few weeks ago when Bernadette was going to make meatloaf, and Stuart volunteers to make it instead.  Bernadette thanked him, but he said something like "I've had your meatloaf".

Lucy and Ricky had a baby pretty early on in the show's run too, it was in season 2.  And after that they went on long trips to both Hollywood and Europe.  So I agree there is no reason for the show to continue to remind us "Hey, Howard and Bernadette have a baby".  Especially since so far they are sticking to the idea of not showing her onscreen.  Halley must have inherited some of that gene from Howard's mom.

[Homily]

12 hours ago, hnygrl said:

Not some over-entitled aging bimbo who obviously said yes because you're the best she's ever gonna do...I'm beginning to think they suck so badly on screen because they're not meant to end UP together.

Thoughts?

You do realize Penny makes more money than Leonard and is an attractive woman who has never lacked for male companionship?  I seriously doubt Leonard is the best she could do if by that you mean he was her last chance to get married because, well she's old now and all.

[BlossomCulp]

26 minutes ago, Homily said:

You do realize Penny makes more money than Leonard and is an attractive woman who has never lacked for male companionship?

They've also made a point of noting that Penny gets hit on by some of the doctors she visits for work, male and female :).  If they ever did decide to split Penny and Leonard up (and I really doubt they will but I also never thought Donald Trump would be president so don't listen to me!!) they wouldn't need to look too far to find "the other man" if they wanted to go down that road.

Edited April 16, 2017 by BlossomCulp

[LaChavalina]

12 hours ago, AEMom said:

 

Interesting.  The non-private home daycares in Quebec are basically like very large houses and the kids are divided by age into the various rooms with their assigned caregivers. So for dropoff and pickup you just walk over to the room that your child is assigned to. 

I'm sure this depends on where you are in the U.S., but a lot of people leave their kids at in-home daycares --i.e., you are taking your child to someone else's house and they watch them all day. No plexiglass or webcams or anything. 

The most interesting part of the Bernadette storyline for me was when she complained about taking the baby to daycare after just four months. I was hoping that might become a larger commentary on the stupidity of U.S. maternity leave policies. As it is, most women I know in this country get three months if they are lucky. A friend who is in a mostly male profession got six weeks.

On April 14, 2017 at 4:34 PM, CleoCaesar said:

On a totally separate note, I never understand why parents take freaking newborns to places like zoos, aquariums, amusement parks, etc. The baby is too little to realize where she is, much less appreciate it, and it just looks like such a hassle.

 

Try sporting events. I've seen people bring babies who are as young as two weeks!

[LoneHaranguer]

On 4/14/2017 at 8:33 PM, rmontro said:

If Bernadette makes so much more than he does, why are they suddenly hurting for money?

Because Howard throws away money. wendyg mentioned the golddigger from S1 on whom he was ready to spend all of his savings. We know he owns expensive comic books. He went in on the time machine Leonard bought. As well as the expensive 3-D printer that got him in trouble with Bernie. He recently set a new high by buying a pricey minivan without consulting her. And, hasn't he been taking an "only the best" approach to things like Halley's crib? 

[anna0852]

Howard *didn't* buy the minivan. He brought it home for a test drive. The decision to buy was made by both of them.

I'd imagineboth Howard and Bernie are still paying student loan debt as well. And babies are expensive. Daycare in my area runs $200 a week. Health insurance  $300 a month. Diapers about $12 a pack. It adds up quickly. Plus trying to save for rainy days, college and retirement. 

[vibeology]

I got the sense when Howard started to panic about money it wasn't so much because of current expenses but because he was worried about the future. Top schools already cost so much money. By the time Haley is ready to go to school, I can't even begin to imagine what those costs will be. That's a huge expense and if Howard wants to help or pay for it himself and save Haley from taking out loans, you need to start saving now.

Plus, once you have a kid, you want to take them on fun vacations, make sure they're able to participate in any after-school activity they're interested in, nurture their hobbies and interests and basically give them all the things they might want. You might not always be able to afford all the things, but the impulse to be in a position where you can do as much as you can is natural. And I would imagine Howard is haunted by his own father's absence from his life. While the show was never really clear about it, money probably was tight when Howard was growing up in a single parent household so I can see him worrying about money because of those memories too.

[CherryAmes]

On 4/14/2017 at 8:33 PM, rmontro said:

 If Bernadette makes so much more than he does, why are they suddenly hurting for money?

 That whole freaking out over money business was done as a reason for the guys to end up working together on the guidance system.  They are doing extremely well financially, if for no other reason than they live in a house that isn't costing them anything other than maintenance, taxes and utilities.  But add to that that they have a live in cook, housekeeper and babysitter (Stuart) and they both have extremely good incomes by anyone's standards (well anyone other than people who write sitcoms) and it's obvious they are doing just fine.

Edited April 17, 2017 by CherryAmes

[LoneHaranguer]

5 hours ago, anna0852 said:

Howard *didn't* buy the minivan. He brought it home for a test drive. The decision to buy was made by both of them.

Technically, but he did his best to push the outcome his way; there's a comment about possibly not having a choice because of the way he dinged it up with the crib he bought.

5 hours ago, vibeology said:

I got the sense when Howard started to panic about money it wasn't so much because of current expenses but because he was worried about the future. Top schools already cost so much money.

By "top", do you mean high-quality or big-name? The two don't always go together.

[vibeology]

41 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

By "top", do you mean high-quality or big-name? The two don't always go together.

A little from column A and a little from column B. Howard went to MIT. It currently cost $45,000/year to go there.  There are schools that aren't "name" schools but those aren't cheap either and costs are just going up. Considering both Howard and Bernadette's education history, it's not surprising that Howard would think of schools like MIT or CalTech as his guide. 

[wknt3]

18 hours ago, vibeology said:

I got the sense when Howard started to panic about money it wasn't so much because of current expenses but because he was worried about the future. Top schools already cost so much money. By the time Haley is ready to go to school, I can't even begin to imagine what those costs will be. That's a huge expense and if Howard wants to help or pay for it himself and save Haley from taking out loans, you need to start saving now.

Plus, once you have a kid, you want to take them on fun vacations, make sure they're able to participate in any after-school activity they're interested in, nurture their hobbies and interests and basically give them all the things they might want. You might not always be able to afford all the things, but the impulse to be in a position where you can do as much as you can is natural. And I would imagine Howard is haunted by his own father's absence from his life. While the show was never really clear about it, money probably was tight when Howard was growing up in a single parent household so I can see him worrying about money because of those memories too.

Exactly. As I've said before it may not be entirely logical, but it sure is realistic. They're making a lot of money, but also spending a lot of money and suddenly they're faced with actually having to make some choices. In real life they would be bombarded with ads for high end baby stuff as well as life insurance and savings/investment pitches pushing the idea that they could easily slide into financial problems and need to save approximately $11 million dollars to pay for college if current trends continue plus looking at other costs like you mentioned. I've seen this dynamic play out many times in real life. They certainly could be more realistic, but it would be boring, and when illogical financial anxiety recurs like it does in real life because they need it for the plot we'd just be kvetching that they have a savings an investment plan and a well thought out budget so why are they freaking out and why waste time on the most dull B-plot ever?

[rmontro]

2 hours ago, wknt3 said:

They're making a lot of money, but also spending a lot of money and suddenly they're faced with actually having to make some choices

What are they spending a lot of money on?  Howard seems to need Bernadette's permission to buy a stick of gum (I know families like that, by the way), and as has been said, the house they're living in should be free.  All they have to do is intentionally start investing/putting some money back, which is something they should have been doing all along anyway.

[CherryAmes]

4 minutes ago, rmontro said:

What are they spending a lot of money on?  

Recently they spent money to renovate, redecorate and refurnish their house and they put in a hot tub.  All things though I think they could well afford to do.  But I agree with you that bringing up Howard's previous spending habits as a reason they might be lacking money now doesn't really fly.  Well except in BBT world where for the purposes of one episode suddenly Leonard is burdened with student debt and for the purposes of another episode Penny who is still living in the same apartment she's always lived in and who now drives a company car and is making $100k+ has massive credit card debt (because, har har, that's what happens when you're a girl).

Edited April 18, 2017 by CherryAmes

[anna0852]

42 minutes ago, rmontro said:

What are they spending a lot of money on?  Howard seems to need Bernadette's permission to buy a stick of gum (I know families like that, by the way), and as has been said, the house they're living in should be free.  All they have to do is intentionally start investing/putting some money back, which is something they should have been doing all along anyway.

Off the top of my head:

Health Insurance for the baby

Hospital bill from baby's birth

Daycare for the baby

Diapers and other supplies for the baby

Car payment for the mini-van (and potentially increased insurance premiums)

College fund for the baby

It hasn't been said one way or the other, but in the US it is extremely common for maternity leave to be unpaid in part, if not in full. Basically your employer is just holding your job for you. Bernie might not have been getting her full paycheck for those 4 months and still has to pay her share of the health insurance premiums (ask me how I know! :-( ) Howard took time off too and that might not have been fully paid either.

This is all on top of their existing bills: yes, a free house but there is still upkeep and property taxes (which most likely increased after the renovations as the value went up), homeowners insurance, the car payment on the car Howard bought a couple of years ago, existing student debt, health insurance, car insurance, retirement savings, etc....

Edited April 18, 2017 by anna0852

[wknt3]

7 hours ago, rmontro said:

What are they spending a lot of money on?  Howard seems to need Bernadette's permission to buy a stick of gum (I know families like that, by the way), and as has been said, the house they're living in should be free.  All they have to do is intentionally start investing/putting some money back, which is something they should have been doing all along anyway.

 

6 hours ago, anna0852 said:

Off the top of my head:

Health Insurance for the baby

Hospital bill from baby's birth

Daycare for the baby

Diapers and other supplies for the baby

Car payment for the mini-van (and potentially increased insurance premiums)

College fund for the baby

It hasn't been said one way or the other, but in the US it is extremely common for maternity leave to be unpaid in part, if not in full. Basically your employer is just holding your job for you. Bernie might not have been getting her full paycheck for those 4 months and still has to pay her share of the health insurance premiums (ask me how I know! :-( ) Howard took time off too and that might not have been fully paid either.

This is all on top of their existing bills: yes, a free house but there is still upkeep and property taxes (which most likely increased after the renovations as the value went up), homeowners insurance, the car payment on the car Howard bought a couple of years ago, existing student debt, health insurance, car insurance, retirement savings, etc....

Plus as somebody who does this for a living - dinners out, takeout, travel, and hobbies adds up. The fact that Bernadette put Howard on an allowance so he's not spending all their money on novelty belt buckles and Star Wars toys doesn't mean that they aren't still spending a lot of money on frivolous things. The cost of living is a lot lower here than Pasadena but I have a lot of clients who feel stretched making $150-175K for a family of three - they're not broke and neither are Howard and Bernie - they're just confronting the reality that they are just comfortable instead of rich and will occasionally have to make a decision about allocating resources. It may not be entirely logical, but it is very realistic. I don't see why so many people here can apparently suspend disbelief when it comes to the way they show the university working or Stuart's store being so well stocked with nice displays but never making any money whatsoever, but think the idea that people think and behave irrationally about money often in different ways from week to week is a bridge too far.

[Winston Wolfe]

On 4/16/2017 at 2:04 PM, Homily said:

You do realize Penny makes more money than Leonard and is an attractive woman who has never lacked for male companionship?

Penny's not bad looking by any means, but I always felt she resembles a cartoon character, lol.

[biakbiak]

13 hours ago, anna0852 said:

Health Insurance for the baby

Hospital bill from baby's birth

Daycare for the baby

They are a doubly insured couple  both in places that tend to have rich employer supplied healthcare benefits.The first two things probably cost nothing if they have chosen properly to allow for overlap benefits, the third hadn't started and since it's at the University it's probably subsidized (My sister works in a similar potion as Howard for MIT, my neice was born two and half months pre mature, had emergency surgery, spent three months in NICU, my sister was also in ICU for a week, her insurance covered it all). Hell they should just let Stuart take her to the comic book shop for free. I worried most about his finances because he seemed fine to take a weekend day off to be the third adult to take an infant to an aquarium.

[rmontro]

16 hours ago, wknt3 said:

 I don't see why so many people here can apparently suspend disbelief when it comes to the way they show the university working or Stuart's store being so well stocked with nice displays but never making any money whatsoever, but think the idea that people think and behave irrationally about money often in different ways from week to week is a bridge too far.

My only issue is that they've made a big display out of telling us how Bernadette makes a whole bunch of money, then we have Howard panicking about whether or not they can afford the baby.  Howard (who supposedly makes "peanuts" in comparison) should be making well above average income, and lots of average people have kids and own a vehicle.  And that's before Bernadette's big money.  Their expenses have gone up, but they should get some good tax breaks too.

Sheesh, if it's that big of an issue, maybe Howard should get a job at the Cheesecake Factory to bring home some extra cash. 

[CherryAmes]

I think what bothers me most about the way they handle the finances on BBT is the way they continue to suggest that anyone working at the university is making "peanuts".  It's just not true.  I recall one episode where the guys were tracking down a former professor and found him living in some sad looking apartment in a clearly not so great building.  They made it very clear that after working at a prestigious university for 30 or 40 years this was what you can expect to happen.  This would come as some surprise to the people I know who have made their careers in the field of higher education.

[LoneHaranguer]

2 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

I think what bothers me most about the way they handle the finances on BBT is the way they continue to suggest that anyone working at the university is making "peanuts".

They may consider that the case if their salaries aren't in line with the higher cost of living in the area, which is around 50% more than the typical city, with rents between 2 and 3 times as much (although, I'm sure the broken elevator is saving the gang some money).

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 4/14/2017 at 10:34 AM, CleoCaesar said:

When Bernadette was on the fence about having kids, didn't Howard say he'd do the majority of childcare and be a stay-at-home dad? It would certainly solve the issue of Howard being unable to say goodbye to Halley.

On a totally separate note, I never understand why parents take freaking newborns to places like zoos, aquariums, amusement parks, etc. The baby is too little to realize where she is, much less appreciate it, and it just looks like such a hassle.

Stuart, Raj, and Burt are three characters that could be cut and I wouldn't miss them at all.

At that age, the trip out isn't really for the infant, but for the parents, parents get stir crazy cooped up with the infant.  And although infants are not going to "appreciate" it per se, I think at that age, they start reacting to their environment so that is cute to see.

 

On 4/14/2017 at 4:10 PM, anna0852 said:

The isolation actually makes sense for this story. New parents are not constantly hanging out with their friends and when they do get together, it's more likely that the friends come to them. I've actually been impressed that we're seeing the impact a child has on relationships without actually seeing the child.

Yup, it is definitely different once you have kids.  

[DrSpaceman73]

I know kids are expensive, but Howard and Bernadette really should not be hurting for money.  They are both older, both have worked for years, they have no house payment, Howard paid rent to no one for years and then they lived together for only a few years paying rent. they both have good jobs.  Compared to the typical new family and parents, they should be better off then 99% of them. 

I know Howard wastes money on stupid stuff, but surely Bernadette put an end to that once they were married.  Still......that storyline always bugged me. 

But hey its The Big Bang Theory, no need to think too deeply on Chucke Lorre shows.

Speaking of which, I knew I recognized her.  April Bowlby playing basically the exact same role here as she did on Two and a Half Men when she dated allen :  perfectly nice but basically an attractive goal digger. 

On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 2:12 AM, Traveller519 said:

For as much as going back to a familiar well can be tiresome for a Sitcom, they still manage to do an excellent job with the Fun with Flags stuff. It's sparingly used but familiar and they always have some new angle to work. I really enjoyed having Howard and Raj there for it.

"Do you remember what you said?"

"Go tell someone who cares"

"I did"

That really was the only good part of this show. 

They should just do a Fun with Flags podcast spin off.  I'd watch. 

Oh and I actually did like Sheldon's jokes. 

[Snow Fairy]

On 4/14/2017 at 11:53 AM, Gulftastic said:

Liked seeing April Bowlby. Unlike some of the posters above, I loved her 2 & 1/2 Men. They are my favourite episodes.

 

I also liked her, and I liked her in Two and a Half Men. 

On 4/16/2017 at 5:54 AM, AEMom said:

I'm really curious.  Do US daycares have rooms with glass walls that look like hospital baby nurseries?

Leaving the 4 month old baby is difficult. Wouldn't the glass walls be more difficult for the kids? They see their parents, but can't be with them? Or is it a mirror on their side, like in police shows?

Maternity leave in my country lasts for 12 month, and even then they don't let us watch kids through the windows, makes separation more difficult.

 

Is Stuart not working in the comic shop anymore? I'm lost in that plot

[BlossomCulp]

3 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

Is Stuart not working in the comic shop anymore? I'm lost in that plot

He doesn't just work there, he owns it. Which you would think would involve some long hours including hours when the store is closed when he would be doing paperwork, ordering supplies etc.  But I guess it's like most jobs on sitcoms, they don't let the fact that people have to work interfere with the plot!  Unless it's a work based sitcom of course :).

[Snow Fairy]

So basically he pays someone else work there and complains he is poor? Well done

He annoys me the most, I don't like they are giving him so much screen and plot time

[rmontro]

I assumed that the reason that Stuart couldn't just stay home and watch the baby was because he had to go run his comic book shop.  Otherwise there would most likely be no reason to put Halley in daycare.