Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[kismet]

If people are really into the wizard of oz thing. Here's nice gif/pic set I found on tumblr. Not mine. Nice graphics.

 

http://kalosluna.tumblr.com/post/116685152026/fe-li-ci-ty-team-arrow-ill-miss-you-most-of#notes

 

This person makes Oliver the Tin Man & Felicity Dorothy. In my mind this works as well after some thought. Personally Oliver & Felicity complement each other so well that the heart & the home are very much interchangeable at points in reference to how their partnership works. So I can see where they WoO counterparts could be interchangeable.

Edited April 18, 2015 by kismet

[BkWurm1]

From what I remember he was fairly rejected (on TWOP at least) for a variety of reasons. 

Everyone is entitled to their own impressions but I was heavily on TWOP when Barry was introduced and that's not what I remember.  I'm not saying Olicity fans suddenly all shipped Barry, but I know I found him interesting and charming and while there was a lot of debate about if Oliver was justified in his anger when he found out Barry was initially lying I don't recall a rejection of Barry or of the cuteness of Barry and Felicity.  I never felt it was a long term thing where Felicity would choose Barry over Oliver IF that was ever a choice, but I liked their dynamic. 

[apinknightmare]

IIRC, the biggest complaint about Barry on the TWoP boards was that be was being too heavily promoted and pushed ("shoved down our throats," is a term I remember reading). 

[quarks]

From what I remember he was fairly rejected (on TWOP at least) for a variety of reasons. 

 

Wrong.

 

Hilariously, TWOP complained a lot about Barry Allen/the Flash before Barry showed up, mostly because most of the posters there didn't want superpowers on Arrow; they wanted it to stay gritty and real.  And a few people didn't want yet another love triangle, and a few people complained that he was getting shoved down our throats. Once Barry Allen showed up, however, most posters got wildly enthusiastic and excited about the upcoming Flash show, and some people even admitted they were shipping Barry/Felicity harder than Oliver/Felicity - mostly because Oliver was a real jerk in episode 8.  

 

There were some complaints about the amount of time spent on shippy Barry/Felicity moments, given that by the end of episode 9, it was pretty clear that Felicity had moved into the main love interest, so for some TWOP posters that felt like a waste of time, but nearly everyone liked/loved Barry and cracked up that Oliver didn't.  Afterwards, the major complaint about Barry Allen wasn't about Barry himself, or Barry/Felicity, but that the producers were focusing on Flash instead of Arrow, and many viewers felt Arrow suffered as a result. So that got a lot of complaints, but I don't think that exactly falls under ship block issues.

 

So with Barry, TWOP posters were unenthusiastic about the idea, enthusiastic about the execution.  With Ray, the response here has been the direct opposite: mixed levels of enthusiasm about the idea (from excitement to "eh"), unenthusiastic about the execution, although I think the last episode, which allowed Ray to interact with other characters, helped improve viewer response to Ray.

[wingster55]

I meant before he debuted...which is worse actually. (So was Ray actually..)

It was mostly positive afterwards true

[BkWurm1]

I meant before he debuted...which is worse actually. (So was Ray actually..)

It was mostly positive afterwards true

Ray conversely came with a lot of hopes.  Brandon Routh non fans were up font about their concerns and there were worries about mishandled triangles but I felt I was very much in the majority of feeling the time was right for Felicity to have some male attention and was looking forward to her scenes with BR.  And then he pretty much came off as a insensitive stalker in the first two episodes.  He IMO redeemed himself a good deal in the third when he completely dropped his controlling nature but once stranded on Palmer Island it was hard to not find fault with how both Felicity and Ray were being written.    

[dtissagirl]

There's talk in the spoilers thread about if Oliver/Felicity are comparable to Buffy/Angel, and I guess ironically, I think their original concept for Laurel/Oliver was much closer to the Buffy/Angel archetype. The whole bunch of tropes that define B/A could be applied to what they wanted out of L/O: star-crossed, against all odds [slayer/vampire; lawyer/vigilante], on-again-off-again, doomed to fail [and boy, did Buffy/Angel fail], more of an opera, less of a romcom, etc.

 

We've discussed at length that this season contorted Oliver and Felicity to fit some of these tropes, but the jury's still very much out on whether the tropes fit them.

 

And funnily enough, I can actually cast Oliver as either Angel or Buffy, if we're talking hero archetypes. He's the brooding, self-sacrificing guy on a road to redemption [Angel], and he's also the warrior with the weight of the world on his shoulders that started out on this mission that wasn't really his, but became very much his own, to the eternal derail of his normal life [buffy]. But I have a harder time casting Felicity in either Buffy or Angel's roles. Laurel too, come to think of it. She fit the couples tropes, sure, but not the individual character archetypes.

 

I think if I could apply a BtVS/AtS tropey relationship to Oliver/Felicity, it would be Angel/Cordelia. Before the whole pregnancy thing I'm still trying to erase from my brain, I mean.

[tarotx]

Yeah to the A/C comparison though I can even see a potential something leads to the death of Cordy/Felicity to make the original main couple have a chance to happen sometime in the future. Off screen for those who want it.

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, but killing Cordelia was 100% external behind the scenes factor, so I don't think it really applies here.

[Morrigan2575]

Agreed. Total BTS stuff based, not a story wise decision

[steeledwithakiss]

I agree O/F are very much A/C (Angel ended in s3 for me). They were partners, then became friends, then family and fell in love. Funny thing they also had other people telling her she was in love with Angel, the girl was so much in denial. Not that I think Felicity is in total denial. I feel like she knows on some level but she thinks she can wish those feelings away because Oliver is terminally unavailable.

 

I always wanted to see how those two would work out in a relationship but unfortunately the writers were not and destroyed Cordelia. What's good for O/F is that they are much more popular than A/C ever were and they have chemistry (I always thought it was something lacking with A/C).

Edited April 19, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[tarotx]

Well the creative team was mad at the actress but the Actress wasn't planning to leave or anything. It was a creative choice.

Edited April 19, 2015 by tarotx

[MostlyC]

Hey, we have an awesome relationship, you guys and I. 

 

I want it to be as lovely as it has been, so:

 

If it is spoilerish or a spoiler, please put it in the spoiler bars (or go to the spoiler discussion).

 

And Buffy the Vampire Slayer was a great show- and it has it's own topic where you can talk about it.

 

Here, we discuss the Arrow relationships.

[Velocity23]

I am just gonna cry in a corner ... those loveable idiots.

[steeledwithakiss]

 Seriously they couldn't have written them better as the meant to be couple from the start if they tried. Actually good thing they didn't try because when we find this little gems it's even better.

[TanyaKay]

I think the greatest service they did to the character of Felicity Smoak was that it was not written as the "heroine" of the show, consequently, she had the chance to grow as a character first and then a love interest. To this date, one of my favourite Felicity episode is Odyssey where she mainly interacted and formed a bond with Diggle. They saved a flat lining Oliver twice and then bonded over Diggle's decision to join the vigilante life and the compromise he had to make with his existing sense of morality. That not only established the dynamic of the team where all three members respected each other, but a bond between Diggle & Felicity was created that is still strong, irrespective of Oliver and the whole team dynamics.

 

Other members who joined the team later on, like Roy Harper and both the Lance sisters, were not given the same thoughtful opportunity to bond with existing team members. So Felicity actually benefited from not being a love interest from the very beginning. Plus I think they did not cram too many story lines in season 1 and had time to devote to characters, something that did not happen in seasons 2 and 3.

Edited April 20, 2015 by TanyaKay

[statsgirl]

This is probably going to be moot in another 3 1/2 hours, so I'm going to ask it now:  Should Felicity break up with Ray?

 

I think they've shown pretty well that Felicity is in love with Oliver.  We've had Diggle say it, Donna say it, and Felicity herself has said it indirectly a number of times:  the "quiet dreams" she talked to Barry about; the fantasies she told Oliver she had if he really would come back from the duel; and telling Oliver that the reason they're not together is on him.  But Oliver, for all his ILUs, still hasn't budged so as far as Felicity is concerned, all she'll have of him is as a friend in her life.  She says that's enough, that will make her happy.

 

Meanwhile, she's tried to move on and she's found Ray, who in spite of his early stalking, is a good guy, wants to be with her, and has said the ILU words.  All Felicity could reply was "jello", which if you know hospital jello is pretty bad.

 

I feel sorry for Felicity. The guy she wants is permanently unavailable (so he's told her); the guy who wants her she doesn't love.  Does she think that she'll eventually come to love him?  It's kind of like being in love with a celibate priest.  Should she stay with Ray and try to build a life and a family with him?  At this point, it seems the healthier solution than staying around waiting for Oliver.  But poor Ray, watching Felicity and Oliver say good-bye to Roy

[Genki]

Yes, for so many reasons already listed and I don't feel sorry for Ray.

 

Also being with Ray has made Felicity's character weaker and inconsistent for plot purposes, so I can't wait for that to be over.

[BkWurm1]

MG is of course a troll.  I can't believe he's still pushing the "Maybe it's all a dream!" about the Felicity and Oliver pillow counting session.  

[kismet]

Too tired to process thought right now. But can I just say how excited I am that we can finally talk about the love making session between Oliver & Felicity in this thread. After weeks of having to Spoiler capture or fancy wording to avoid reveal. We are finally just able to talk about the fact that O/F are finally officially MORE than just platonic. No more chaste kiss & OQ chaste fantasies. Hot damn, the looks between those two all episode. And that bedroom scene, was just romantic & fitting. Don't think it was as graphic as media alluded to. But I view all sex scenes on a spectrum when it comes to airibility & censors. For what they could show it it was a pretty Amazing scene with a lot of fill in the blank at home moments/edits for the audience. But their interaction all episode was just burning up the screen with all of its emotions, heart eyes & love feels everywhere.

 

That and the bromances run so deep on Arrow. Both Maseo & Diggle's loyalty to Oliver, man got me right in the feels. I sense a new triangle :) Now Im just afraid what that means for them down the pike this season. We know the writers won't let us have nice things for long.

 

Also NEWSFLASH ~~ Thea & Felicity can have a conversation (albeit about maybe 5 words combined), but still they can have a conversations & the show does not immediately implode. I have high hopes they might actually make it up to full sentences shared one of these days.

[tennisgurl]

I just about lost it during the Not Goodbye scene. Oh those two. I am 100% convinced that they are going to be the endgame couple, but this separation is too damn sad. I hope that this separation is short. But at least they cant keep them in their weird relationship limbo anymore. There is no way they can back out now! Just be a couple damn it! I want kisses! And hugs! And dates! And joking! And breakfast! 

[kismet]

I maybe drinking the romance kool-aid, but I seriously feel that OQ telling her then let's not say goodbye this time, felt like a challenge for her to not give up on him. That somehow he was gonna find a way to get back to her. Or maybe he believes that she will find a way to rescue him. He was seriously wonderstruck by her love confession & her desire to break-him out at all costs. It just felt like a promise to each other and the audience that they were going to find each other. It was like in Alias when Sydney & Vaughn have the we always find each other scene. It just felt like whatever was going to happen in the next few episodes is a temporary speed bump. I'm not saying its gonna be smooth sailing forever, but I feel like this romance is only just beginning.

[Chaser]

Ran across a GIF set that did a side by side comparison of the Oliver and Laurel sex scene and the Olicity one. It was interesting. Oliver and Laurel's kisses got more tame as the season progressed. I remember them sharing some intimate kisses (there was tongue) earlier in the season, but not during the hook up scene. They looked like they were going in for hot open mouthed kiss, but then they would close their mouths. No tongue that I could see, no real making out. His shirt is removed but hers stays on. She jumps up, he stands there for a moment and then walks to the room and then the scene ends. 

 

Oliver and Felicity were the exact opposite. They started out the season with the chaste kisses. When they got to the love scene, they threw that out the window. Both lose their shirts and the scene continues onto the bed. Movement, neck attention, heavy make out. That scene was not the most explicit in the CW but it certainly took the cake for Arrow. I didn't realize how much more attention was paid to it until I saw the comparison. A lot of people have talked about the music, but it really stands out. A very current pop song v. a couples original theme. A theme that really didn't kick up until they were on the bed, allowing the scene to start more intimately. 

 

Their goodbye scenes were also interesting. Oliver and Laurel continued the tame with the distance between them, the awkward hand placement and the paint by numbers kiss. Oliver and Felicity weren't making out but their body language was very intimate. The slow, gentle kisses and the forehead rest. 

 

I get what they were doing with Oliver and Felicity. The physical part of them was also on a slow burn. If they intended Oliver and Laurel to continue then they made some weird choice. Oliver and Laurel was a very generic hook up production wise and I don't know what SA and KC's personal relationship is like (I've always thought they are comfortable friends, but probably not close), but that decline in 'heat' is really obvious. 

Edited April 25, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[TanyaKay]

Before the episode aired, Blake Neely said that the musical score during the sex scene would be a variation of their old theme which they used in the mansion I love you scene last season finale & the hospital kiss scene earlier this season. The musical score remained the same during earlier kissing and disrobing but as soon as they were on the bed, a haunting lilting chant in a woman's voice was added which made it a thousand times more intense and romantic. A two minute clip of that musical piece is available on YouTube and I have listened to it so many times and that melodious addition of that woman's voice just made it all the more beautiful.

While I loved all the interactions between Oliver and Felicity this episode, the goodbye scene remained my favourite. It was gut wrenching and heart breaking to see them say good bye while still trying to be hopeful by not actually saying the words. The way he looked at her when she was walking away, you actually felt his pain. Stephen Amell really brought his A game for this episode.

[wonderwall]

I posted that video on the Behind the Scenes thread but I'll post the link here too :)

 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Before the episode aired, Blake Neely said that the musical score during the sex scene would be a variation of their old theme which they used in the mansion I love you scene last season finale & the hospital kiss scene earlier this season. The musical score remained the same during earlier kissing and disrobing but as soon as they were on the bed, a haunting lilting chant in a woman's voice was added which made it a thousand times more intense and romantic. A two minute clip of that musical piece is available on YouTube and I have listened to it so many times and that melodious addition of that woman's voice just made it all the more beautiful.

While I loved all the interactions between Oliver and Felicity this episode, the goodbye scene remained my favourite. It was gut wrenching and heart breaking to see them say good bye while still trying to be hopeful by not actually saying the words. The way he looked at her when she was walking away, you actually felt his pain. Stephen Amell really brought his A game for this episode.

 

I'm torn between the jet scene and the goodbye scene, but probably leaning toward the goodbye as my favorite, too. It was heartbreaking, hopeful and so very intimate. That forehead touch was just GAAAAAHHHHHHHHH! I mean, look!

 

 

And then we get this from Oliver. Stephen just broke my heart all over again

 

[wonderwall]

It has become a common theme with them, but I wouldnt say there hasnt been time when Oliver wanted to turn to Laurel before anyone or wanted to tell the truth or actually did. Writers may forget that they ever wrote season 1  but we know it screened. I don't think this assessment is entirely fair.  I know  there is a lot to despise of the relationship, are very hated here and Olicity is Queen but can O/L fairly get a little bit of credit were its due?. JMO.

I don't really want to get into an analysis of their relationship, but I think in season 1 Oliver DID want to tell Laurel the truth. I think he wanted her to know badly. But in the end, he didn't tell her to keep her safe from his world even though in the end, she was always put in danger because of his association with her. So his reasoning for not telling her made little sense to me back then. In the end, Oliver chose to lie to Laurel. That's all that matters. It doesn't really matter whether or not he wanted to tell her the truth, he lied to her plain and simple, and over time the lying became easier for him especially when he realized that he could never not be a vigilante and his crusade will never be over. 

 

Oliver used to go to Laurel to open up (Ice cream scene), but those scenes were tainted because of the lies. This is from the season he actually wanted to be close to her. But then all that changed when Tommy died. He distanced himself from her in season 2 and she distanced herself from the world. As a result, these two grew further and further apart. It's clear to me now that Laurel will never be the person he goes to, to open up because the people who helped Oliver the most since he came back to Starling are the people who understand who he is right now the most. Oliver is the kind of person who seeks solace in the people he's closest to, and Laurel hasn't been that for a very long time at this point. 

 

I also feel like Laurel's addiction, her judgement, her decisions in the past, her callousness are also the reasons why Oliver doesn't trust her. Felicity has made only a couple of callous decisions in the past, and I honestly don't think Diggle has made any (correct me if I'm wrong)... They're the two most stable people on the show both mentally and emotionally, so it makes sense why Oliver would sooner lean on them than Laurel and why he would lie to her from time to time. 

 

Could that change? I suppose so, but that would mean that they would have to stop butting heads, stop yelling at each other, start respecting one another, stop lying to one another, etc. But it seems as though the writers don't really give a damn about that dynamic so I doubt we'll see one. 

 

Laurel is one of his oldest friends, even if he is so over her as a romantic love, he could show more respect to her.

Oliver may have known Laurel the longest on the show, but are they really friends? I don't see friendship between them at all. Why? Because of their actions. Oliver clearly doesn't respect Laurel, and Laurel just never listens to Oliver whenever he tries to make her see sense. For the past three seasons their relationship has been largely adversarial. I just don't see them as friends tbqh. I just see Oliver feeling obligated to be around her because they used to be close which is why they genuinely care about one another's well being. Other than that there's nothing warm about them and their interactions which is usually customary in friendships. 

Edited April 25, 2015 by wonderwall

[CabotCove]

But it seems as though the writers don't really give a damn about that dynamic so I doubt we'll see one.

 

That we can agree on. Thanks for replying with a detailed explanation to my post, but for the other stuff  Im not even going to further attempt to make a case for Laurel/Lauriver on this board anymore, for obvious reasons. Each to their own.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Conell

[wonderwall]

That we can agree, as of the other stuff Im not even going to further attempt to make a case for Laurel/Lauriver on this board anymore. Each to their own.

You know I actually wouldn't mind a healthy debate on this topic. I've never really found a lauriver person who's up for one without resulting into name calling and saying "olicity is fan pandering". So if you're up for it, I'm willing to listen! We'll most likely disagree, but I think that it's good to see both sides of the argument. 

[steeledwithakiss]

Oliver in love and actually able to be with the woman he loves is adorable. Also the way he was with Thea, their goodbye scenes slayed me. Not to mention calling Diggle his brother. More than when he went to fight Ras in 3x09 he acted like he really thought he might never see them again and stopped trying to be strong for everyone and act as if it's no big deal (except with Thea but she was really confused so there was no way he could be honest with her). He was raw, honest, warm. I love that Oliver and I hope we'll get to see him more often in s4.

Edited April 26, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[CabotCove]

You know I actually wouldn't mind a healthy debate on this topic. I've never really found a lauriver person who's up for one without resulting into name calling and saying "olicity is fan pandering". So if you're up for it, I'm willing to listen! We'll most likely disagree, but I think that it's good to see both sides of the argument.

 

I'm not a Lauriver fan though honestly, Im not even sure Im an Oliver fan at this point really. I would not wish this man on Laurel even if I hated her and I have hated her in the past. Not with the way he (mis) treats her and when there are options like WildCat, Cisco. My concern of Olicity has become about Felicity not him anymore.

"Olicity is fan pandering" I quite understand it must be frustrating for a fan or ally of the ship to have to hear this often.

About a debate, I dont know, I guess I will have to think about it some more during the daytime maybe, thanks for the offer.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Conell

[statsgirl]

When a show ruins a character for me - I am usually ready for them to just write that character off.  When said character stays around too long, it makes it really hard for me to look past it.  In this case, Laurel is not important enough to the show for me to leave it if they don't fix her.  However, as of right now, she is an irritant.  I would be perfectly fine if they just establish that she isn't going to be part of Oliver's story for one full season and write her interacting as little as possible with him.  A little distance would do these two a TON of good. Laurel can interact with Felicity and Thea and can even fight along side Thea and provide Felicity with information Oliver needs.  She can be a part of the story without being a part of HIS story.  Once they have a season apart and he realizes that she has become a hero in her own right and he gets a grudging respect for her - then maybe they can pair more up in season five.  But I think the only way she works in season four is by keeping them apart.

 

 

I honestly think the only way they could do this is to make Laurel a recurring character from now on. I honestly don't care about her friendship with Felicity or Thea as much as I care about Thea/Felicity, Thea/Lyla, Felicity/Lyla, Donna/Felicity... Yes there need to be more female friendships on this show, and as much as I liked that scene with Laurel hugging Felicity in episode 20, I still don't feel as though their friendship is organic. I'd much rather have an organic friendship than a forced one.

 

 

Just throwing it out there -- is there a way to make an organic friendship between Laurel and Felicity?

I can see a friendship between Laurel and Nyssa because they are very much the same type of person, forceful women confident of their abilities (maybe that's one t hing that attracted Sara to Nyssa).   I can see a friendship between Thea and Laurel given their shared history and background.  I thought Felicity and Sara had a real friendship but I'm having so much trouble with the Laurel/Felicity scenes they give us.

 

It's hard to find a cohesive friendship between Laurel and Felicity even in fanfic (often Felicity is wimpy and Laurel takes charge).  I think they've really failed to make it organic on the show but I don't know if it's because they haven't spent enough time on it or if it's too hard to do.  Is there a way it can be done, or should the show just stop trying and leave them as co-workers?

 

Given their history and their personalities, should the show keep trying to force a true friendship between them, or just stop trying and leave them as co-workers?.

Edited April 26, 2015 by statsgirl

[SmallScreenDiva]

Just throwing it out there -- is there a way to make an organic friendship between Laurel and Felicity?

I can see a friendship between Laurel and Nyssa because they are very much the same type of person, forceful women confident of their abilities (maybe that's one t hing that attracted Sara to Nyssa).   I can see a friendship between Thea and Laurel given their shared history and background.  I thought Felicity and Sara had a real friendship but I'm having so much trouble with the Laurel/Felicity scenes they give us.

 

It's hard to find a cohesive friendship between Laurel and Felicity even in fanfic (often Felicity is wimpy and Laurel takes charge).  I think they've really failed to make it organic on the show but I don't know if it's because they haven't spent enough time on it or if it's too hard to do.  Is there a way it can be done, or should the show just stop trying and leave them as co-workers?

 

Given their history and their personalities, should the show keep trying to force a true friendship between them, or .

 

Keep trying now? I'd say no, they've missed the boat. The thing is, and I've said this before, they could have actually began building a natural relationship/friendship between Laurel and Felicity from the beginning of S3. Heck, a relationship with Diggle, too.

Lance's speech? Laurel could have brought out the team to hear the praise Lance was heaping on the Arrow. They didn't even have to tweak the speech, just have Laurel acknowledge Digg's and Felicity's contributions, too.

 

Second episode, Laurel could have been included in that scene where Felicity and Roy were taking care of Sara's body and Felicity talks about how she always thought of Sara as this mighty warrior. This would have given Laurel even more insight into her sister and made her realize there was a friendship between Sara and Felicity. They could have bonded over the lost sister and friend.

 

Episode 3 is Corto Maltese and this is where Laurel calls Felicity to ask her to ping a guy's phone. Take out the whole "are we favor friends" because it just pointed out that these two don't have a relationship.

 

3 eps and I think they would have had the beginning of a relationship that could have grown into a friendship. Just my take.

[Chaser]

I think it would have been possible to create some type of friendship between Felicity and Laurel if they had started small. There were enough episodes between Laurel finding out and 3x10 to establish something friendly there. But they just jumped right into it to fast. 3x02, Laurel is directing Felicity in the Arrow Cave. 3x03, Felicity comments that she doesn't know if they are friends. Then Laurel's arc starts and its all of the sudden it was Felicity playing super supportive friend to Laurel. It just came out of no where for me. Same with Diggle. Laurel never really acknowledged Diggle and Felicity until then so it felt unearned. 

 

I had said on here before. I would have preferred their first scene to be something simple like one of them complimenting the other's shoes. Felicity and Laurel have very different personalities. I think a little awkwardness on both parts would have been good. 

 

The biggest misstep they made was Laurel's intro to the Team. With Roy and Sara, Oliver introduced them and made a point of saying these two people are important. I think that was huge to the audience. And Barry? He was brought in by Felicity and Diggle to save Oliver's life. Ironically, Laurel was actually brought in the same way and Oliver reacted just as harshly to Laurel, a lot like the hostile way he reacted to Barry. But Laurel's attitude in that scene just threw it off. 

[kismet]

Well they could try to make it organic if they try to utilize EBR & KC's friendship in real life as inspiration. From what I've seen posted on Tumblr, it seems like they are friendly in real life. So whatever it is that makes them click off screen would probably help on-screen. Its just a suggestion, it might not even work. But it seems like the first start to a believable relationship is to have it show on screen. Right now when they interact on screen, I don't always feel like their character's like each other but rather are just stuck working with each other.

[KirkB]

I don't see any reason Felicity and Laurel couldn't be friends. The issue, IMO, seems to be that the show has given them so little time to interact in three years that any time they do it feels out of place.The thing is, I don't think they're trying to do it now. Felicity showing up at Laurel's office to tell her what's happened doesn't mean they're friends, it just means she's relaying information. If they wanted Felicity and Laurel to be friends the EP's would have done it from the start or made it a priority at some point during the three years they've had. They are acquaintances. Allies. But neither one is going to be calling the other up just to talk and they're not going to invite the other to their party or anything. 

[nksarmi]

I'm not a Lauriver fan though honestly, Im not even sure Im an Oliver fan at this point really. I would not wish this man on Laurel even if I hated her and I have hated her in the past. Not with the way he (mis) treats her and when there are options like WildCat, Cisco. My concern of Olicity has become about Felicity not him anymore.

"Olicity is fan pandering" I quite understand it must be frustrating for a fan or ally of the ship to have to hear this often.

About a debate, I dont know, I guess I will have to think about it some more during the daytime maybe, thanks for the offer.

Forgive me, I am going to qualify my opinion a little....

 

I would not call myself an olicity fan because I only like them when it works for the story.  I do love Felicity and I used to love their flirty friendship.  However, I spent a season and a half thinking Oliver was a total man-ho and then really liking him with Sara (despite how hurtful that must have been to Laurel) that I actually felt a little god-smacked by olicity this season. I mean, I can look back and see the foundation for them - and people have described those instances in detail here - but to me, it didn't feel earned when Oliver declared his love for her.  I think the last few scenes between them this season feel earned, but I still wonder if the show has gone too far with them too fast.  I know some people feel like its been three years, but I don't.  And I can't help but wonder how long they will keep them together before they break them apart for drama!  But anyway, olicity works for me as the third best couple on the show at this point - I put Diggle/Lyla first and Roy/Thea second.

 

So anyway, moving on to Laurel/Oliver - I caught this show on Netflix and our house binged it.  So, it wasn't all that long ago we finished season two.  At any rate, the 13 year old boy in this house didn't like Sara and Oliver because Oliver cheated on Laurel with Sara and he didn't like them getting together.  The two adults in this house shrugged and said well he can never get back together with Laurel.  He asked us why and we both said, because too much crap has gone down between them - in real life, people don't come back from all of that.  So, if the writers ever intended Laurel and Oliver to be a thing - I think they screwed the pooch for a lot of viewers right from the start.  In fact, the moment I first felt any dislike for either Laurel or Oliver is when they hooked up in season one.  That's not a good sign.  I personally see no way to put them together, but I hated Katherine and Heathcliff in Weathering Heights so maybe I'm the wrong type of person to be a fan of this ship. 

 

For the record, I don't think Flash has done much better with their comic book pairing because I totally do NOT want Barry and Iris together lol.

Just throwing it out there -- is there a way to make an organic friendship between Laurel and Felicity?

I can see a friendship between Laurel and Nyssa because they are very much the same type of person, forceful women confident of their abilities (maybe that's one t hing that attracted Sara to Nyssa).   I can see a friendship between Thea and Laurel given their shared history and background.  I thought Felicity and Sara had a real friendship but I'm having so much trouble with the Laurel/Felicity scenes they give us.

 

It's hard to find a cohesive friendship between Laurel and Felicity even in fanfic (often Felicity is wimpy and Laurel takes charge).  I think they've really failed to make it organic on the show but I don't know if it's because they haven't spent enough time on it or if it's too hard to do.  Is there a way it can be done, or should the show just stop trying and leave them as co-workers?

 

Given their history and their personalities, should the show keep trying to force a true friendship between them, or just stop trying and leave them as co-workers?.

If it was ever going to happen - I think it would have had to happen through Quentin somehow.  Like since maybe Quentin seems to respect and like Felicity, she could help mend the fence between him and Laurel.  Also, maybe they could bond over trying to get Thea away from Malcolm.  That could work for me too.

[Reba]

I would love to see Felicity try to mend things with Quentin (with both Laurel and Oliver). I miss Quentin being part of the team.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I would love to see Felicity try to mend things with Quentin (with both Laurel and Oliver). I miss Quentin being part of the team.

Felicity, IMO, should stay as far away as possible from the mess that is Oliver and Laurel. But yes, I do hope she gets to play a role in reconciling Oliver and Quentin. This makes sense to me as she's been Quentin's real connection to the Arrow from the beginning. She was the one who got Quentin to think of the Arrow, or the Hood at the time, as more than just a vigilante. She was the one who told Quentin about the sacrifices the vigilante has made to save the people of Starling. When the spoilers first came out about Felicity standing up to someone surprising, I had two thoughts: Quentin or Ra's. We got Ra's. Now I want her to go yell at Quentin to stop being an ass.

Edited April 26, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[olicityfan25]

Not that I think it's what's going on here but, it is kind of odd that you have EBR and KC hanging out during what is supposed to be hard episodes to watch coming up for Oliver and Felicity. Plus there being more interaction between Laurel and Felicity. It does seem either it's being pitched to them to be seen together for a while on vacation or they just enjoy each other's company. It's just odd that they are posting pictures a lot now on social media seeing as they really weren't before. We will see if they continue to hangout a lot after this season is done.

[apinknightmare]

I think they are legitimately friends. 

[wonderwall]

Meh, not everything is a conspiracy theory. Maybe they bonded because they've had more scenes together... 

Edited April 27, 2015 by wonderwall

[kismet]

The friendship looks legit... They have actually filmed more scenes together recently, so maybe their friendship blossomed. They look like they're having fun. If not & it is some PR stunt, can I please have my employer or someone pay me to hang out on the beach all day? I'll promote stuff.

[olicityfan25]

Yeah like I said I don't think it's going on here. But, in this business these things do happen due to business people asking for it.

[BkWurm1]

My concern of Olicity has become about Felicity not him anymore.

 

I think I understand this because she hasn't been given much of any storyline outside of Oliver loves her from afar or hanging with potential love interest/triangle/romance blocker Ray.  But I feel like Oliver has been the actual driving force of the storyline between them. 

 

He gets an idea in his head or has to go do something or sacrifice something and Felicity hasn't had much of a chance to do anything but react to his choices.   He say not now, maybe never and all she was able to do is say, I'm not putting my life on hold waiting on the slim chance of perhaps someday, especially when Oliver's attitude is, well of course I'm going to die!

 

He again tells her he loves her before he leaves and it felt like dangling hope (for the audience at least) but all Felicity can do is wait and then grieve and then when he does return from the dead, his priority on return is teaming up with the devil. 

 

Felicity gets to make an impassioned speech but in reality, is not like it changed a thing.  They weren't together before he left and they weren't going to be together after he returned.  So again, Oliver is driving the story.  It stays that way as he gets his head out of his ass about why he was willing to work with Malcolm, it stays that way as he is reacting to seeing her with another man (and then even worse, another would be hero) and even as she's dropping hints (ok, flat out saying it) that he's the reason they aren't together, he has to do something with those hints or again, nothing changes.  

 

If Ra's hadn't taken everything from him, would Oliver and Felicity have gotten together?  It's still all about Oliver even if they made Felicity stay mute about her feelings in that one way.   Olicity for me has been all about Oliver but at the same time we've seen Felicity's grief over Oliver all season long.  It's made for a long season.   It feels soooooo much better this week than last but that's the power of hope.  

Edited April 28, 2015 by BkWurm1

[TanyaKay]

It only took three seasons for Felicity and Thea to share a dialogue. Granted that Felicity only asked her if she was okay when they were running in the catacombs but still, its a start. Hopefully, there will be more meaningful conversation in next episode.

[AyChihuahua]

Any thoughts on why Felicity didn't look back at Oliver when she left?  

 

Related to that thought, I feel like sometimes they've gone too far in making Felicity "strong," with regard to Oliver, in that it comes across as cold, instead.  I loved her walking away in The Calm, but I think they took it too far after Oliver came back, and I loathed that she was draping herself all over Ray (I don't like that IRL...pda is fine, but not at work, and the draping, my God the draping), and especially draping herself all over Ray in front of Oliver.  Then she walks away without looking back and apparently per the sneak peek has just accepted that he's gone, and isn't even plotting to get him back.  I pretty much HATE that they're not plotting to get him back.

[KirkB]

They can't really plot to get him back though. Oliver being there is pretty much the only thing keeping the League off their backs. If they go and kidnap the new Heir it would probably end badly. Now, given the previews, that may not matter since it looks like Ra's is a moron, but he's pretty much been enough of a failure for me this season (which is sad because the character is one of my favorites) that I just want it to be over.

[AyChihuahua]

Of course they can plot.  They can also scheme.  They don't have to put anything in motion yet, but they could at least discuss possibilities.

[nksarmi]

Give Felicity a break - she has pinned for him (in my opinion), watched him be with Isabel because he "couldn't be with someone he really cares about," then watched him actually start to care about Sara and be with her, then finally get told he loves her and what good is it? So now for months she has had to work with him, support him, and prop him up all while knowing he loves her but refuses to be with her.  She has mourned him once and watched him come back from the dead and know it didn't change a thing between them.  Now, she has lost him again and maybe the poor girl just doesn't have much fight in her right now.

 

No matter how much grief Felicity is going through, she is always trying to help other people find their inner strength, hope, light.  She has done it with Laurel, Oliver, Ray - I'm pretty sure she has also done it with Roy and Sara but I can't recall it right this moment.  But hell, maybe someone needs to help her for a change.  Maybe Felicity needs someone else to play cheerleader and help her find some hope? 

 

I don't blame her for not scheming or plotting and pretty much just accepting that he is gone - let her feel hopeless for a little while.  It's realistic.  I just hope that if/when they do get Oliver back - nobody makes Felicity cry in season four - poor girl has been through enough this year.