Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[apinknightmare]

I don't understand why if Felicity loves him that she can't just tell him that. Are the words so precious that she will only reserve them for someone who commits to being in a relationship with her? To my mind, that's like a quid pro quo almost.  Like it's only when Oliver agrees to being with her that she can say she loves him, but here is Oliver, exposing himself and his vulnerabilities knowing he likely won't be able to be with her.  But I guess I'm different in that if I love someone I usually tell them no matter if it's going to cost me the relationship or not.

 

Assuming she realizes she loves him, then I think it's just a way of protecting herself.

 

If she does realize she loves him, I get it. It's probably difficult for her to make herself vulnerable to him. I mean, not only has he backed away from her, but now he's being straight-up reckless with his own life. Maybe she thinks if she doesn't say it, if he doesn't know, that will make things easier for her if he cuts her off again, or, god forbid, actually dies. Or can you imagine how amplified the heartbreak would be if she told him she loved him and it still didn't change anything? I'd keep it locked up tight too. But I get people who wouldn't - I think your life experiences greatly determine how much you're willing to put out there for people.

 

And it's nice to see Oliver making himself vulnerable, but why exactly is he being so emotionally honest with her? She asked him not to, and he still did it repeatedly. If he's doing it because he just wants her to know how he feels, then he's being selfish by putting that out there and refusing to do anything about it, especially since she asked him not to. If he's doing it because he's just so head-over-heels batshit crazy in love with her that he can't keep his mouth shut, then he should visit a proctologist for an evaluation to get his head removed from his ass so he can do something about that. Is it because he feeds off the angst that putting it out there and denying himself the payoff brings? Like...he's hurting and it's understandable, but he keeps doing it to himself? I feel for him and I get it, but at the same time it's like...stop, dude. Just stop until you're willing and ready to take some action. 

Edited March 14, 2015 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

 

Oliver has also only told her he loves her in the same sentence that they can't ever be together. He cares for her, but he can't be with her. He loves her, but he's going off to his death. What sane person would tell that person they love them back? All Oliver has done since telling her he loves her is hurt her. Starting with 2x23 and giving her the syringe and making her think it was all an act. She hasn't had a time where she's emotionally ready to tell him she loves him back.

 

If she can't tell him she loves him, when he's going off to a fight he could die from, I don't when she would. 

 

There doesn't have to be a right time to tell someone you love them.  For a person that babbles and says a lot of peculiar things, the one thing she doesn't say to Oliver is that she loves him. Oliver never intentionally hurt Felicity either.

 

I'm a little bothered that in some ways Felicity is being I dunno, coddled, like she's too young or innocent to be hurt.  She was a hacker! She's nobody's fool and she's smart. 

 

Assuming she realizes she loves him, then I think it's just a way of protecting herself.

 

If she does realize she loves him, I get it. It's probably difficult for her to make herself vulnerable to him. I mean, not only has he backed away from her, but now he's being straight-up reckless with his own life. Maybe she thinks if she doesn't say it, if he doesn't know, that will make things easier for her if he cuts her off again, or, god forbid, actually dies. Or can you imagine how amplified the heartbreak would be if she told him she loved him and it still didn't change anything? I'd keep it locked up tight too. But I get people who wouldn't - I think your life experiences greatly determine how much you're willing to put out there for people.

 

And it's nice to see Oliver making himself vulnerable, but why exactly is he being so emotionally honest with her? She asked him not to, and he still did it repeatedly. If he's doing it because he just wants her to know how he feels, then he's being selfish by putting that out there and refusing to do anything about it, especially since she asked him not to. If he's doing it because he's just so head-over-heels batshit crazy in love with her that he can't keep his mouth shut, then he should visit a proctologist for an evaluation to get his head removed from his ass so he can do something about that. Is it because he feeds off the angst that putting it out there and denying himself the payoff brings? Like...he's hurting and it's understandable, but he keeps doing it to himself? I feel for him and I get it, but at the same time it's like...stop, dude. Just stop until you're willing and ready to take some action. 

 

 

She told him not to dangle maybes which for the love of gods , to this day I do not understand that line or when Oliver had actually dangled anything in front of her before. The I love you in the mansion was part of a ruse but was also very true.  And Felicity knew that. She gave him the chance to renege on that at the plane but he didn't and she said...let's go home.  End of s2.

 

Jump to season 3 and we have Oliver madly in love with Felicity and them being totally flirty and cute with each other. And finally he asks her out but boom (literally) Felicity is almost killed because of Oliver's life.  He freaks out, retreats, but still needs to let Felicity know that he does love her. That him deciding he can't be in a relationship and be the Arrow is not a rejection of HER or that she is unlovable.  Yet for Felicity the I love you doesn't seem to matter  and she interprets it as him not really loving her IMO because he says he can't be with her.  They are at cross purposes and that hasn't changed. She's just decided that she wants to be with Ray for whatever that gives her. In a way, it's kind of crappy to do to Ray, and I don't even like Ray!

 

It's all stupid really LOL. 

 

Oliver did respect her and didn't bother her about his feelings after 3.1 and before he left to fight Ra's.  I can't really fault him for saying that in that extreme circumstance.  But other than IMO he's not said it again.

Edited March 14, 2015 by catrox14

[lemotomato]

Can I just say that while I think this is a great discussion and everyone has really good points, it really emphasizes to me how depressing Olicity has been this season. With the exception of the first 20 minutes of 3x01, 3x05, and 3x08, their friendship doesn't exist. Even their kisses are either in dreams or goodbyes. It's getting hard to remember why I want them together, and that makes me really sad because their chemistry was one of the reasons why I loved the show. 

[wonderwall]

Can I just say that while I think this is a great discussion and everyone has really good points, it really emphasizes to me how depressing Olicity has been this season. With the exception of the first 20 minutes of 3x01, 3x05, and 3x08, their friendship doesn't exist. Even their kisses are either in dreams or goodbyes. It's getting hard to remember why I want them together, and that makes me really sad because their chemistry was one of the reasons why I loved the show. 

 

I think that this would be me if I weren't reminded of why I loved them int the first place with those episodes. They could work so well together (more than anyone else on the show) if the writers didn't feel the need to break Oliver down. I don't think Oliver could've truly hit rock bottom if he and Felicity were in a good place. That's the issue this season. They're fracturing everything good on the show. Team Arrow, Olicity, Oliver, Felicity... etc. 

 

I just think it's this arc that's making everything so dour and grim. Once we get through all this shit, I think we'll get to the good parts :) I still have faith in what the writers are going to do with them. Well, sorta. 

[catrox14]

Sadly, I've given up on the idea that Olicity will ever be again.  :(

[apinknightmare]

She told him not to dangle maybes which for the love of gods , to this day I do not understand that line or when Oliver had actually dangled anything in front of her before.

 

She gave him the chance to renege and he didn't. I'd consider that a "maybe," since he should've just said he was sorry for leading her on, even if he wasn't sure exactly how he was feeling about her at that time or if he wanted to pursue those feelings if he was sure about them. And he literally said maybe in the restaurant when he told her "Remember when I said that because of what we do I didn't think that I could be with someone I could really care about? Maybe I was wrong." Not I was wrong, i want to be with you, but maybe. I think that's what she meant.

 

ETA: He also said that he couldn't be Oliver Queen and the Arrow. "Not now, maybe not ever." Still leaving the door open for a relationship.  

 

 

Oliver did respect her and didn't bother her about his feelings after 3.1 and before he left to fight Ra's.  I can't really fault him for saying that in that extreme circumstance.  But other than IMO he's not said it again.

 

Yes he did. He brought his feelings up in 3x05, and she cut him off after he mentioned them. And I get him telling her that he loved her before he left - he would've regretted it if he didn't, but then his whole "That's not why you're upset," when she was going after him about teaming up with Merlyn, implying that she was upset because he didn't come back wanting to be with her is an asshole thing to say since HE was the one who said "I love you" right before he left, especially considering he was cocky enough to think he was going to win. So, did he put that out there not intending to do anything about it when he returned? I mean, yeah...he was going off to die, but he did think he was coming back. 

Edited March 14, 2015 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

After running down the littany of women hurt by Oliver, Felicity saying to his face  "I don't want to be a woman you love".  That sounds a lot like she doesn't think or even wants to be with him. 

 

If I were Oliver, I would have taken it as a rejection of him and any kind of relationship now or in the future.

I think what Felicity was saying was that "the way you treat the women you claim to love sucks", not that she was actually rejecting him.  It was more in the nature of "Will you please actually listen to me so we can talk this out?"  Of course, Oliver would hear it as a rejection because that's the show's contrivance to keep them apart.

 

No, I totally agree that her moving on with Ray makes sense (even though I really don't like him). What I have issues with is the idea that Olicity not happening right now is all Oliver's fault. From what we've seen, Felicity has abandonment issues herself that she hasn't dealt with and even if Oliver suddenly has an epiphany and changes his mind about them being together, I really don't think she's just going to fall back into his arms like some people seem to believe. 

I think she would have in 3x12 when he first came back.  Now she's going to have serious second thoughts because after his decisions on Merlyn, he isn't the man she thought he was any more.

[wonderwall]

I think that it's a positive thing for Oliver and Felicity and their relationship to know that the writers had to break them down in order to break Oliver down. He can't be truly happy unless he's with Felicity (platonically or not). Think about it. If they were in a good place, do you think Oliver would've done half of the stupid things he did? I don't think so. I think that it's telling that they had to distance O/F in order to make half of this nonsense happen.

 

IDK that's just what I think. Hopefully next season doesn't require them to be apart for plot reasons because they just come together so naturally that keeping them apart seems contrived. 

[catrox14]

I think that it's a positive thing for Oliver and Felicity and their relationship to know that the writers had to break them down in order to break Oliver down. He can't be truly happy unless he's with Felicity (platonically or not). Think about it. If they were in a good place, do you think Oliver would've done half of the stupid things he did? I don't think so. I think that it's telling that they had to distance O/F in order to make half of this nonsense happen.

 

IDK that's just what I think. Hopefully next season doesn't require them to be apart for plot reasons because they just come together so naturally that keeping them apart seems contrived. 

 

I think Oliver would have done the same things.  He had reasons beyond Felicity's opinions why he did what he did. Thea would still be getting drugged by Malcolm. He would still go and find her. Sara would still be dead.  Laurel would still be in the lair.  Ra's would still be seeking vengeance on Malcolm and Oliver would still fight to save Thea's life.  To me, he was dead set on those things and Felicity being his girlfriend wouldn't have changed him because none of that has to do with their relationship. 

[wonderwall]

I think Oliver would have done the same things.  He had reasons beyond Felicity's opinions why he did what he did. Thea would still be getting drugged by Malcolm. He would still go and find her. Sara would still be dead.  Laurel would still be in the lair.  Ra's would still be seeking vengeance on Malcolm and Oliver would still fight to save Thea's life.  To me, he was dead set on those things and Felicity being his girlfriend wouldn't have changed him because none of that has to do with their relationship. 

 

Hmm I suppose you're right. I think this is why I'm glad they weren't actually together when Oliver started making ridiculous decisions because of plot reasons. 

 

I still think that him shutting Felicity out and distancing himself from her was just to make him hit rock bottom. Do you think he would've hit rock bottom in episode 2 if he had Felicity by his side? 

[statsgirl]

I think Oliver would have done the same things.  He had reasons beyond Felicity's opinions why he did what he did. Thea would still be getting drugged by Malcolm. He would still go and find her. Sara would still be dead.  Laurel would still be in the lair.  Ra's would still be seeking vengeance on Malcolm and Oliver would still fight to save Thea's life.  To me, he was dead set on those things and Felicity being his girlfriend wouldn't have changed him because none of that has to do with their relationship. 

I think Sara would still be dead.  It's worth noting that Oliver went to get Thea after Felicity walked out, saying she didn't want to stay down there waiting for him to die.  That's an example of Felicity influencing a decision that Oliver makes.

 

Would Laurel be in the lair?  That's debatable.  She's down there because Oliver protected Malcolm and so Laurel felt she had to go out and fight on her own.  If Oliver had been talking to Felicity in The Magician and she had told him to take a step back and think about the situation and realize that Ra's was after Malcolm not because of Sara's death but because of his actions in The Undertaking, Oliver might have decided not to put Malcolm under his protection but to let Malcolm deal with the consequences of his own actions himself.

 

In that case, Malcolm would have gone on the run again, Laurel might have been satisfied that Sara was avenged, and Oliver could rebuild his relationship with Thea without Malcolm's interference and without the need to fight Ra's.  Thea would have Oliver and Roy as her family, lessening her obsession with keeping Malcolm close to her.  And everyone would live happily ever after, Oliver and Thea in their apartment, Oliver, Diggle, Felicity and Roy in the lair, and Laurel working as an ADA.  Well, she'd still have to tell her father one day that Sara was killed, but she wouldn't necessarily have to beat up people to make herself feel better and she wouldn't be in the lair because she'd let Oliver and the team handle things.

 

 

Why would Oliver tell her he loved her if he thought she was with Ray? Why would he think that wouldn't change things for her when he came back?

Because he was walking away, possibly to die.  Oliver only tells her he loves her when she can't have him.  If there was the slightest chance they could be together, he wouldn't be telling her he loves her.

 

And of course, when he did come back, the first words out of his mouth killed the possibility of a relationship between them. Even after she said she couldn't understand how he could ally himself with MM, he deflected and said it was all about her disappointment that they couldn't be together.

 

Oliver only tells Felicity he loves her when he's also telling her they can't be together.  As a member of the audience, I understand how mixed up he is, but wow, is it ever manipulative.

Edited March 14, 2015 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, with regards to Felicity, I feel like they still would've had some of the same issues, but they would've been dealt with differently. So I think the tenor of things would've changed and maybe some of the decisions Oliver made would've been different. Like, he definitely would've gone to Nanda Parbat the first time, but I don't think he would've gone the second time. If they were together, they would've talked, and probably still disagreed. But they would've talked.

 

I guess it ultimately doesn't matter since the whole reason Oliver is having this identity crisis and dialing back two years worth of progress is so Malcolm Merlyn could reappear and we could have some shitty LoA plotline and of course so we could bring Ray and Laurel into the hero mix, so...bleh.

[Ang]

There doesn't have to be a right time to tell someone you love them. For a person that babbles and says a lot of peculiar things, the one thing she doesn't say to Oliver is that she loves him. Oliver never intentionally hurt Felicity either.

Tricky. On the one hand, telling a person you love that you love them can and maybe should be an easy and common thing. On the other hand, telling a person, for the first time, you are IN love with them has some serious implications, implies hopes or expectation, and requires a ton of vulnerability.

I'm a little bothered that in some ways Felicity is being I dunno, coddled, like she's too young or innocent to be hurt. She was a hacker! She's nobody's fool and she's smart.

I think that's mostly the actress's fault. I have to admit, when I first realized that she's TEN years younger than SA, I had a minor freak out. SA is easily in my own age group; EBR is midway between my age and my daughter's, and for a few moments my switch flipped to maternal. All of a sudden instead of thinking more physical interaction between the two was exactly what I wanted, I started thinking things like, "She is JUST a KID! She's barely old enough to buy alcohol! He's is 150% of her age; he's practically an old man to her!!" and love scenes were a seriously disturbing idea. :-) Edited March 14, 2015 by Ang

[catrox14]

Felicity is supposed to be 25 and Oliver 31 or 32.  That's not a huge age difference.

[apinknightmare]

Felicity is supposed to be 25 and Oliver 31 or 32.  That's not a huge age difference.

 

Oliver was born in May 1985, so he's still 29. Which seems crazy to me, but I have no choice but to go with it. :)

[statsgirl]

Maybe it's my European background but I don't have a problem with the age difference. My mother once told me that she didn't seriously consider my father as a partner because he was only four years older than she was and therefore too young.  I married a man 13 years older than me, and my friend had one of those amazing True Love marriages for 40 years with a man 17 years older than she was, until he died last  year.

 

There's lots of fMRI data to show that female brains mature earlier. Jungians are willing to do analysis on women 5 or 10 years before they consider a man ready.  Or as Frank Capra said "Women mature earlier. And prettier."

[apinknightmare]

My dad is 10 years older than my mom, which I generally don't think is a big deal, but she had me when she was 19, so he was...yeah, I try not to think about it too much. I also try not to think about real-life actor age differences just so I don't get squicked, so O/F don't bother me, especially since they're only 4 years apart in the show and I think EBR passes for 25-ish as Felicity. 

[Ang]

I know the characters are only a few years apart, and I don't have a problem with age differences either! That's what made my freak out so funny to me. Like I said, I was just feeling maternal toward EBR and Felicity by extension. I meant to make the point that the actress's real age and rather childlike features (and occasional mannerisms) probably up the degree of protectiveness the audience feels for her.

[lemotomato]

I think that this would be me if I weren't reminded of why I loved them int the first place with those episodes. They could work so well together (more than anyone else on the show) if the writers didn't feel the need to break Oliver down. I don't think Oliver could've truly hit rock bottom if he and Felicity were in a good place. That's the issue this season. They're fracturing everything good on the show. Team Arrow, Olicity, Oliver, Felicity... etc. 

 

I just think it's this arc that's making everything so dour and grim. Once we get through all this shit, I think we'll get to the good parts :) I still have faith in what the writers are going to do with them. Well, sorta. 

 

I hope you're right! At least we know from those episodes that they're capable of writing Olicity as a good couple. They just have to want to do so.

Sadly, I've given up on the idea that Olicity will ever be again.  :(

Off to fanfiction land we go, in the meantime!

[wonderwall]

So I really do get what they're trying to do with Ray Palmer, and if they actually succeeded in telling the story properly I wouldn't have minded it (even though I'd have felt Felicity as a character deserved better than this cliche). In fact I'm all for Oliver earning his happiness and fighting for it (and a big part of getting that is being with Felicity), and I'm all for Felicity not wanting to wait for him to get his head out of his colon. This could've all gone possibly well if Ray worked as a character. But the thing is, after reading that post about Ray (I posted it on the supporting cast thread), I agree that his character is all over the place which affects how I view him as well as his relationship with Felicity even though all I want for her is to be happy. 

 

Right now, I'm really struggling to see how Felicity could ever be happy with Ray. He says that he would always put her first before his mission but then when they have sex, the first thing he does afterwards is push her aside to take his suit on a joy ride. Then there's the fact that he hasn't even truly dealt with Anna's death (because just a few episodes ago, his mission was to honor her). Then there's the fact that he's too 'perfect' which in the end is just so god damn boring. I mean, what does Ray do for Felicity other than offer her short term gratification? Their relationship and whenever they interact it's usually about Ray or the mission but never really about her... I just can't wrap my head around the fact that Felicity could be happy with this idiot.

 

This relationship could've worked if Ray's characterization was solid. Instead, it's whatever the writers want it to be that week and most of the time, it's him being perfect. This in turn affects how I think of Felicity because everytime I see them together I just want to scream at her "What in the world are you thinking???". 

[statsgirl]

What to Ray and Oliver have in common?  Besides the whole superhero and saving the city thing.

 

They keep telling Felicity how important she is to them, and they keep putting her second or third.  Show, don't tell.

Edited March 17, 2015 by statsgirl

[wonderwall]

They keep telling Felicity how important she is to them, and they keep putting her second or third.  Show, don't tell.

 

They showed in the first two seasons. But this season has been a clusterfuck of masks. So obviously they dropped the ball on the people who don't wear masks. Even though this season didn't show it properly, have enough evidence to support that Felicity is important to the team and to Oliver.

[looptab]

Just wanted to point out a certain someone saying to another certain someone: "You know me" (even followed by a lame "I don't dance") vs being told "I know you like I know my own name/better than you know yourself blah blah". 

[wonderwall]

Okay! So I have a question for y'all. Was Felicity being all flirty flirt with Oliver wrong because she's still with Palmer? Or do you guys think that it was okay?

 

I happen to be on the fence about this. I honestly feel like everyone and their mothers know that Felicity and Palmer won't last. And that includes Felicity. I still don't get why she's with him. But I also don't think that it was right to flirt with Oliver. Albeit I don't think it was intentional. 

[apinknightmare]

I think it's okay because it definitely seemed like she and Ray were dating but not exclusive. She referred to them as "a thing," which suggests it's not serious yet.

[tv echo]

I don't think Felicity was all that flirty.  She just seemed glad to be on friendly terms with Oliver again - that he was talking to her and confiding in her.  At the end, I think she was happy and relieved that Oliver was going to reject Ra's offer, so she was trying to joke and banter with him.

Edited March 19, 2015 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

i think the end was vaguely flirty but definitely emotionally intimate in a way that would make me uncomfortable if she was committed to another dude.

[SonofaBiscuit]

See, this is why I said that they need to end Raylicity right now.  If you are dating someone, it's definitely shitty to flirt with someone else.  BUT I don't like Ray and I love Oliver/Felicity and crave interactions like we had in season 2.  I don't want this whole thing to reflect badly on Felicity, so I'm hoping that things are broken off between Ray and Felicity very very soon (before anything more substantial happens with Oliver).

[Password]

Mm she did have tears in her eyes when she said "as long as..." Problem is, because I'm not a Ray fan, my morals have been misplaced. I was in uproar about Iris and Barry, but very content with Felicity.

I don't think it was awfully flirty, but my eyebrows would shoot up if I saw it.

[Carrie Ann]

I felt like she was emotionally intimate and flirty the entire episode, and if they hadn't included the "Ray and I are a...something" line, it might have felt a little off for me. In some ways, that line more than saved it for me--it explained it. She clearly doesn't feel committed to Ray yet, but somehow getting into "something" with him has freed her up to be a little more emotionally honest in general. For the first time since 308, I felt like she was willing to accept her feelings for Oliver. But she's also being pragmatic enough to realize that he is still making himself unavailable, and she's going to do whatever until that's not the case.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[tv echo]

We don't really know the status of Felicity's relationship with Ray, do we?  They slept together, but are they exclusive and committed, or just friends with benefits?

Edited March 19, 2015 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

According to Felicity, they're "a thing."

So, dating, not exclusive. Maybe they haven't even discussed it.

[Password]

Do you reckon that her being emotionally more open was a consequence of Oliver reaching out or no? Because at the beginning when he returned and was still being cold, she had none of it.

I really do wonder where they're going with Raylicity. Their ending is something I ponder often because right now, everything is very shallow between them. He's almost just a distraction and it makes me wonder how they'll build on that.

[Carrie Ann]

Do you reckon that her being emotionally more open was a consequence of Oliver reaching out or no? Because at the beginning when he returned and was still being cold, she had none of it.

 

I felt like they were clicking even before this, but the first moment that is emotional/flirty is instigated by Felicity, and not after an emotionally open moment on Oliver's part. It's her questioning whether he's really okay at PT, and grabbing for him with BOTH HANDS, all warm and loving. He leaves.

 

The next moment is them talking about the offer--which he didn't tell her about--and she gets ALL up in his space, and once again he has to step away.

 

Then the glory of the scrunchy face, etc. But my point is that actually Felicity initiated the intimacy. She initiated those conversations; she pulled closer to him. Yes, he came to PT, but ostensibly to get info on Murmur. He then purposely kept her out of the cave, because she was "preoccupied." She brought herself back in. I feel like she sort of led the charge here, and if anything, Oliver just arrived at the same point a little later, but it's possible he only let himself open up because she did it first.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[blixie]

Eh flirting is not cheating, if a kiss is just a kiss, flirting is even less than that, there's a lot of evidence that we essentially can't even  help ourselves, if we find someone attractive and charming, we flirt. They both know it's not going anywhere because she has a boyfriend and he's still stupid, I think those scenes were more evidence of them re-establishing their bond in all it's gradations, after a lot stress and alienation that nether of them really wanted.

[calliope1975]

I don't think either one of them can help with the flirting. I don't think it's intentional; I think they have such a strong connection and love for one another, it just happens. We've seen Felicity be standoffish to Oliver earlier this year, and now he can't even stand her touching him before he has to bolt. I think once he opened up to her again, she's drawn back in. 

 

If they had less chemistry or I liked Ray more, I might have side-eyed the interactions, but they do and I don't, so flirt on!

[Chaser]

The only time I thought she got flirty was when she called him hansome. Everything else just felt like old school Oliver and Felicity. Which made me realize how important chemistry is, and for that matter the strength of that chemistry. It reminds me of something EBR said when asked if her and SA ever talk about Olicity, she said they didn't they just try to find the honesty in the scene. That's what I felt tonight. Their friendship feels intimate. Their friendly banter feels flirty.

 

As to why Felicity seems more open to Oliver, I think its partially because Oliver was open to her and partially because Ray can act like a barrier. It takes the pressure off of them.

[apinknightmare]

I think there's something to be said, too, for the pressure being off. Felicity's with Ray, so as disappointing as that seems to be for Oliver, he's no longer on the hook there. He doesn't have to feel like he let her down, he doesn't have to feel the weight of disappointment or feel like she might be lonely and it's all his fault. She's moving on, he doesn't have to feel responsible for her emotional well being in the same way that he probably did before, so that's got to be very freeing. 

 

And Felicity's found something outside of the Arrow that gives her purpose. She seems to really enjoy her job because she's being challenged, and she's probably happy enough with Ray, doing whatever. So the air's a bit clearer between them and they can get back to being the way they were. I hope they keep it up.

 

Also, I love the fact that Oliver told Felicity that he had been an assassin last night, and it was just kind of like...okay. 

 

I love them. I hate myself. 

[Danny Franks]

I don't know about Oliver, but I'm sure that one of the top entries on my list of 'things I really want the girl I'm in love with to say' is 'even though I'm fucking this other guy, I'm so happy you're in my life'.

 

Yeesh. It's not quite as bad as Beckett obliquely telling Castle to keep showing up and trying to win her even though she had no intention of dumping her boyfriend, but it's not great at all. Felicity single? Lovely sentiment. Felicity with another guy? Not so much. Who writes this nonsense?

[NumberCruncher]

I don't know about Oliver, but I'm sure that one of the top entries on my list of 'things I really want the girl I'm in love with to say' is 'even though I'm fucking this other guy, I'm so happy you're in my life'.

 

Yeesh. It's not quite as bad as Beckett obliquely telling Castle to keep showing up and trying to win her even though she had no intention of dumping her boyfriend, but it's not great at all. Felicity single? Lovely sentiment. Felicity with another guy? Not so much. Who writes this nonsense?

I get that nobody likes to be seemingly "friend-zoned" by someone they have feelings for but considering how many times it happened when the shoe was on the other foot in S1 and S2 with Felicity being the recipient, it doesn't bother me as much in this situation. Is it the greatest writing ever? No, but I think given Felicity admitted she and Ray have a "thing" she had to find something to say to let Oliver know that while she might be with Ray, that doesn't mean she wants Oliver to leave. She knows about the Ra's offer and knows that Oliver is Mr. I-Have-To-Be-Alone-Forever. If I were in her shoes the last thing I would do is not give him any reason to stick around--even if it meant being just friends. Friendships are important relationships too.

Edited March 19, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[apinknightmare]

I don't know about Oliver, but I'm sure that one of the top entries on my list of 'things I really want the girl I'm in love with to say' is 'even though I'm fucking this other guy, I'm so happy you're in my life'.

 

 

Felicity and Oliver were friends before anything, so who cares if she's dating some other guy? Things have been rough between them, and he's spent the last couple of months doing dumb shit that would get him killed, and he finally took his head out of his ass and decided to stick around. Can she not tell him that she's glad? 

 

And Felicity reiterated that they weren't together because of a decision Oliver made (a comment he did not refute). If he hates her telling him she's glad he's in her life while she's casually dating some other dude, all he has to do is tell her he wants the job - she kind of told him as much last night. And he wouldn't even have to do all that terrible working for it that would emasculate him or whatever. 

[Danny Franks]

 And he wouldn't even have to do all that terrible working for it that would emasculate him or whatever. 

 

Oh I wouldn't worry, TV romance dictates he will have to do all the hard work in the end, while Felicity just has to take a moment out of 'being awesome' while she agrees to forgive his foolishness and let him be with her.

[dcinmb]

I don't think either one of them can help with the flirting. I don't think it's intentional; I think they have such a strong connection and love for one another, it just happens. We've seen Felicity be standoffish to Oliver earlier this year, and now he can't even stand her touching him before he has to bolt. I think once he opened up to her again, she's drawn back in. 

 

If they had less chemistry or I liked Ray more, I might have side-eyed the interactions, but they do and I don't, so flirt on!

 

I agree that the flirting is unintentional. I think that when they're getting along and communicating openly, they just naturally light up around each other. Plus, Felicity just seems to be very touchy and huggy with those she cares about, especially Oliver. Even when they're not getting along and barely speaking, because of their undeniable connection they're often still able to communicate with just a look, a sigh, a few words.

[apinknightmare]

Oh I wouldn't worry, TV romance dictates he will have to do all the hard work in the end, while Felicity just has to take a moment out of 'being awesome' while she agrees to forgive his foolishness and let him be with her.

 

Oh, I'm not worried about it at all.

[wonderwall]

Oh I wouldn't worry, TV romance dictates he will have to do all the hard work in the end, while Felicity just has to take a moment out of 'being awesome' while she agrees to forgive his foolishness and let him be with her.

 

When he himself caused 99% of the problems between himself and Felicity you better believe he's the one who's going to have to work for it in the end. It shows that Oliver is culpable for his actions, and that's a positive step towards his character development. 

Edited March 19, 2015 by wonderwall

[statsgirl]

I didn't think that Felicity was being deliberately teasing and flirty.  I thought she was just behaving the way she wants to around Oliver now that he's finally stopped pushing her away and shutting her out in the cold.

 

I keep remembering the expression on her face in Nanda Parbat when Diggle told everyone to leave so he could talk to Oliver alone.  She was so hurt at being shut out by both of them.  These men were her best friends and they slammed the door in her face as if she didn't matter at all.

 

Felicity is someone with few filters and I got the feeling that she was so glad that Diggle and Oliver were finally talking to her, she opened up and became as affectionate as she wanted to be.

 

 

When he himself caused 99% of the problems between himself and Felicity you better believe he's the one who's going to have to work for it in the end. It shows that in the end, Oliver is culpable for his actions. 

And good for Felicity for telling him that

 

I just wish that she had also told him that he wasn't responsible for Quentin not knowing about Sara other than in leaving that decision to Laurel.

[Chaser]

I think Felicity has really missed Oliver and now that he is showing signs of being back she just wants to hug him like a teddy bear.

[dcinmb]

When he himself caused 99% of the problems between himself and Felicity you better believe he's the one who's going to have to work for it in the end. It shows that Oliver is culpable for his actions, and that's a positive step towards his character development. 

 

With all her unsolicited assurances last night, I think Felicity has made it pretty clear that Oliver's not going to have to work for it at all.

[wonderwall]

I just wish that she had also told him that he wasn't responsible for Quentin not knowing about Sara other than in leaving that decision to Laurel.

 

Nooo, the writers would never drag their pet project, Laurel like that (even though she sort of deserves it). With Quentin on her ass now (thankfully), they wouldn't overload it with another character reminding the audience that what she did was wrong. This has been the only time Laurel's been held somewhat responsible for her actions. But they're sort of side stepping the issue by making Laurel non-apologetic and making Quentin go against Oliver. *sigh* I guess Laurel will never be held completely responsible for her stupid decisions. 

[icandigit]

Oliver had a real thing that happened that caused him to make the decision that he made regarding them. I still never understood how he's the bad guy. Or doing something intentionally to Felicity because of real stuff that has happened to him. Just not feeling the whole Oliver is getting what he deserves with Felicity. Like Oliver needs to be punished.