Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[apinknightmare]

Hmm, they bonded in the Odyssey. The hijinks at Merlyn Global, going out for belly burger. While he was guarding her from slade. To name a few. I'm on mobile so I don't feel like cross referencing for more. I'm sure wonderwall will do it for me soon enough.

 

Honestly, it's not even worth the time. 

[lemotomato]

In 2x01 it was implied that Diggle and Felicity spent the summer together retrofitting the Arrow Cave and looking for Oliver. 2x02 had Felicity defending Diggle from Oliver and telling him about Carly, so clearly they were friends enough to talk about his love life. In 2x06, Felicity knew Lyla was Digg's girlfriend from ARGUS (though not that they used to be married.) and she kisses him on the cheek. 2x14 was full of good Felicity/Diggle moments, not the least of which when he tells her she's irreplaceable. In 2x16 Digg is the one camping out in front of Felicity's house. In 3x01 she walks right to Lyla's bedside to coo over the baby and congratulate them. In 3x10 Felicity is the one Digg shows the most concern for. Oh yeah, and in 3x22 they "died" hugging each other.

But other than those examples (just off the top of my head) sure, when have we seen Felicity and Diggle's friendship?

Edited October 15, 2015 by lemotomato

[Morrigan2575]

Honestly, it's not even worth the time.

:D

[AyChihuahua]

:D

Thus why I adore the ignore option.

[Primal Slayer]

I'm most likely the only one but I am enjoying the little scenes we get with Laurel/Diggle or well the two van scenes we've gotten from S3/4. Hopefully we get more of the two bonding.

[wonderwall]

Hmm, they bonded in the Odyssey. The hijinks at Merlyn Global, going out for belly burger. While he was guarding her from slade. To name a few. I'm on mobile so I don't feel like cross referencing for more. I'm sure wonderwall will do it for me soon enough.

Sigh I wasn't planning on, but then I read this and now I have to :p Damn you!

 

But since I don't have the time to look this all up... I'm going to show all of the times Diggle/Felicity had wonderful moments on the show (thank you tumblr)... That being said, the thing about Diggle and Felicity's relationship is it's about all the small moments, not the big ones that make their friendship so special. 

 

Ignore some of the words on the gifs. They're the ones I could find in short notice and I'm sure there are more but I honestly am just super tired :p:

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2015 by wonderwall

[wonderwall]

And here are links to more images because I apparently can't upload more photos (if someone wants to do this for me I will love you for life):

 

https://33.media.tumblr.com/a1b07d2330a75b2380a54feae971fb04/tumblr_nkckbsXWSg1qbmp7lo2_250.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/9e1804569b793a1cad5cc37e615e1701/tumblr_nifrjvN1uc1rc6dooo3_500.gif

https://33.media.tumblr.com/12cddd0ed4a2d5768c24eb5a872fe35b/tumblr_nhboseVLvB1r0a0smo2_r2_500.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/6f3ada1cc9e5b2d0692a4167412984ee/tumblr_inline_nel4isfJDl1rrzg0n.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/b371a96fed7b9a859bfa3b33432c3da2/tumblr_nnyplkFL6n1qbmp7lo2_250.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/639b1a420e8b590e0214aec46acc5d6f/tumblr_n7cylzzavj1qbmp7lo2_250.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/3ae05bfa999afca7d967e7eabaefe71c/tumblr_nbso2o3muz1s2prmyo9_250.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/48d5e0f72b15f4f665e17d10e9ec89b3/tumblr_inline_n47z9cFbCC1sn6t0w.gif

https://33.media.tumblr.com/42dc48cb8b1809a3dbaa4c1fdafa9fa0/tumblr_n2nazmbCxk1qbmp7lo3_r2_250.gif

https://33.media.tumblr.com/e6aa11a3636072d923cabcb70fa032a8/tumblr_n1n67yODxk1qbmp7lo2_250.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/fb74774747e1dbe6c275ccd1bf5aefbd/tumblr_nkckbsXWSg1qbmp7lo3_r1_250.gif

[wonderwall]

I guess the gist of this all is, in the end, Felicity and Diggle 'died' in each others arms, she was the first one to visit Diggle/Lyla after they had their baby, she was there for Diggle and stood up for him in front of Oliver, she never stopped believing in Digg. On the flip side, Diggle protects Felicity with everything he has, he consoles her when she's going through a tough time, he trusts her and is amused by her. 

 

They would go to the ends of the earth for one another (Felicity LITERALLY went to Russia for Diggle and I have no doubt Diggle would do the same for Felicity), they worry about each other, they confide in one another, they joke around with each other, have dinners together (last season w/ Thea and Felicity), and comfort each other. 

 

This wasn't a friendship built in a season. This friendship, trust, honesty, respect took YEARS to build. 

 

It's a shame that it's come to the point where people think that they never had a lot of scenes together because that's how much their relationship has been shunned. It's a shame that the show would deny us wonderful scenes between Ramsey and Rickards because they play off each other extremely well. 

 

Diggle/Felicity's friendship is one of the few genuine things on this show. Diggle/Felicity's relationship doesn't NEED big moments to define it, they simply grew naturally to the point where I firmly believe that they're brother/sister. And it just sucks that the show is forgetting that in order to make room for others. I really do hate that. 

[Primal Slayer]

This season isn't even half way over yet so I wouldn't say that the show is forgetting that in order to make room for others. We have new dynamics to work with now and explore which I don't mind but those two still have 21 episodes to interact with one another.

[wonderwall]

I know. I was talking about S3 as well and S2b. When Oliver died the first time, we got only 1 Diggle/Felicity? IMO that's forgetting.Then there's them barely interacting in S3a... The show only remembered they were close until the last 3 episodes of S2 and S3, IMO. That just won't do and is a disservice to their relationship. 

[Delphi]

That turned out better then expected. :D. Thank you, love.

Now I have new gifs to add to my collection and a good argument.

Thanks for including the "he's my man" scene, which is never not funny.

[wingster55]

So...I don't think that really goes against what I said. Like the 2x01 implications were just that. Things we never actually saw. And yea they've had good moments and funny scenes..I just don't think it was as consistent as its being made out to be.

[statsgirl]

We didn't see Felicity and Diggle working together to fix up the Arrow cave after the Undertaking but we got the dialogue saying they worked on it together over the five months Oliver was gone. Diggle's been bonding with Thea and Laurel in the last five months but apparently not all that much since he didn't notice Thea was going cray.

 

From the Candidate episode thread;

AND when they got back and Felicity tried to high five him, he just left her hanging.  I’m telling you, Dig’s holding a grudge against Felicity as well. Well, it is possible he’s just too cool for the high five but I still think he’d grudging.

While Oliver left the Team Arrowless, Felicity continued to work with them and hide it from Oliver.  So you'd think that Diggle would have appreciated that she was there when they needed her help.

 

But since they got back, he's definitely given not only Oliver but also Felicity the cold shoulder.  Didn't speak to her in 4x01, not ever when she said to say 'Hi' to Lyla for her.  Didn't high five her back even though he definitely would have done it a year ago.

 

It really looks like he's holding a grudge because she picked Oliver instead of pushing him away like Diggle did.  Are the EPs writing to that story, or is this another case of not noticing what they're doing?  It would make an interesting storyline, Diggle projecting his resentment on to Felicity and Felicity wondering what happened to their friendship but it's not about Oliver so maybe they don't see it.

 

Added to the lack of Diggle/Felicity in s3 when he was all Team Oliver, it feels like it's been a long time since we got some good Diggle/Felicity bonding other than the death scene.  Even Diggle's statement in 3x10 that as a bodyguard he failed Oliver when he went off along to die was said to Laurel and not Felicity.

[lemotomato]

And here are links to more images because I apparently can't upload more photos (if someone wants to do this for me I will love you for life):

 

https://33.media.tumblr.com/a1b07d2330a75b2380a54feae971fb04/tumblr_nkckbsXWSg1qbmp7lo2_250.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/9e1804569b793a1cad5cc37e615e1701/tumblr_nifrjvN1uc1rc6dooo3_500.gif

https://33.media.tumblr.com/12cddd0ed4a2d5768c24eb5a872fe35b/tumblr_nhboseVLvB1r0a0smo2_r2_500.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/6f3ada1cc9e5b2d0692a4167412984ee/tumblr_inline_nel4isfJDl1rrzg0n.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/b371a96fed7b9a859bfa3b33432c3da2/tumblr_nnyplkFL6n1qbmp7lo2_250.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/639b1a420e8b590e0214aec46acc5d6f/tumblr_n7cylzzavj1qbmp7lo2_250.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/3ae05bfa999afca7d967e7eabaefe71c/tumblr_nbso2o3muz1s2prmyo9_250.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/48d5e0f72b15f4f665e17d10e9ec89b3/tumblr_inline_n47z9cFbCC1sn6t0w.gif

https://33.media.tumblr.com/42dc48cb8b1809a3dbaa4c1fdafa9fa0/tumblr_n2nazmbCxk1qbmp7lo3_r2_250.gif

https://33.media.tumblr.com/e6aa11a3636072d923cabcb70fa032a8/tumblr_n1n67yODxk1qbmp7lo2_250.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/fb74774747e1dbe6c275ccd1bf5aefbd/tumblr_nkckbsXWSg1qbmp7lo3_r1_250.gif

If @wonderwall went through the trouble of looking all of them up, then by Grabthar's hammer, they're going to be posted.

 

So...I don't think that really goes against what I said. Like the 2x01 implications were just that. Things we never actually saw. And yea they've had good moments and funny scenes..I just don't think it was as consistent as its being made out to be.

[wonderwall]

So...I don't think that really goes against what I said. Like the 2x01 implications were just that. Things we never actually saw. And yea they've had good moments and funny scenes..I just don't think it was as consistent as its being made out to be.

 

I mean... We're all allowed to infer what we want with what we watch. You don't think Felicity/Diggle are close, other people do and we stated why. You can't tell people what to feel or how to feel about something. There is no right and wrong in this scenario like you're making it. 

 

I think that their 'moments' when looked at individually don't mean that much, but when put together, mean a whole lot because we saw them grow to be good friends/confidantes throughout 2-3 seasons. I even think that the writers hint towards Diggle/Felicity being close because why else would Diggle stay out all night to make sure she's safe? Why else would Felicity be the first one to see Baby Sara? Why else would Diggle threaten Ray at his wedding (which is a total brother thing to do)? Why else would Felicity stand up to Oliver for Diggle? Why else would she go all the way to Russia just to save him? Why else would they seek comfort in one another after Oliver's second death? Why else would they die in each others arms? Those aren't little moments. Those are significant moments that show just how much they've gotten close to one another.Those moments aren't what normal friends share. They're moments that true close friends share. But that's just my opinion.

 

ETA: And let's be real, when has ANYTHING on Arrow been consistent?

Edited October 16, 2015 by wonderwall

[kismet]

I really think he was already gone, yes. And I agree he wasn't acknowledging it to himself at all... and then Felicity was disappointed in him for sleeping with Isabel, and he had to think about it, haha. He's in love with a girl he thinks is unattainable for several reasons. He doesn't even know how to have actual relationships. That flight back from Russia must have been AWESOME for his head space.

 

And for me as a viewer, the moment he stopped denying it WAS the "because of the life that I lead" line. That scene is all miscommunication and what wasn't said. What Oliver is really saying is "I can't be with you for [somewhat valid reasons]". Which Felicity not only didn't get, because at that point she had no idea he had feelings for her, but when she told him "you could do better", Oliver was actively faced with the reality that he could, and it was right in front of him, but he wasn't gonna do anything about it for [reasons].

 

And then HE KILLED THE COUNT FOR FELICITY. Except then, in the very next episode, ooops, Felicity was all about Barry.  And then Felicity keeps being all about Barry, and tells Oliver to his face, hahahaha that she gets ONE guy interest and he's in a coma, and Oliver is there all "WHAT AM I, CHOPPED LIVER?" But instead he says "Maybe he's dreaming about you". Talk about projecting there, dude. But he gives up even the dream right then.

 

I just really really love the set up? I mean, it was dumb that they had to stall the development of their relationship for THIRTY EPISODES because these writers are the worst, but at least for me, they set it all up brilliantly in 2A.

 

Tl,dr: Stephen even said at some con that 2x06 is when Oliver cops to his feelings for Felicity, and since that gels with my head canon, I accept it.

 

It has been my head canon as well, that I can definitely accept it as well. It's just so exciting to me that it all gels so well. The "because of the life i lead" was the first time OQ basically indirectly told FS that he had more than platonic feelings for her. He was in utter denial and had no idea what to do with his feelings or emotions. but they were all there. He just really just clueless how to process them considering his ineptitude at emotional intelligence and his PTSD.

I agree. Actually reading it all written out like that makes me love their original development even more. I love that gifset of O/F going around with the P&P quote "I was in the middle before I knew that I had begun" because it's just so accurate for Oliver's feelings. He was totally gone before he even knew about it and only when he stopped to think that he was like 'Oh…huh.'

 

His face when Felicity saw Isabel leave his hotel room in 206 just said it all to me. You're not upset or annoyed that a friend has seen your 'one night stand' leave if that person is just a friend. Why would he care otherwise?

 

Aaaaaaah. I love them so much.

I've been saying that Austen's P&P quote is amazingly summarizes Oliver for over a year now. It really is spot on :)

[wingster55]

"You don't think Felicity/Diggle are close, "

Nope. Not what I said at all.

I said the actual on screen moments have been not that frequent.

Then again I don't think a moment where Felicity has a one-liner about Barry really counts.

[wonderwall]

"You don't think Felicity/Diggle are close, "

Nope. Not what I said at all.

I said the actual on screen moments have been not that frequent.

Then again I don't think a moment where Felicity has a one-liner about Barry really counts.

 

Apologies for taking your words the wrong way, then. 

 

I added that Felicity one-liner about Barry because it shows that she's close enough w/ Diggle to share that she's upset with the Barry situation. It shows an open communication with them, I suppose. 

 

Their screen moments probably haven't accounted for much compared to other things but IMO the importance of their friendship took a back seat and I hate that. 

[kismet]

Yup. Especially since in the previous episode, he knew something was up with her, and he insisted she could tell him. "You're not gonna lose me" and all.

 

I can easily handwave 214 because it's the first episode after they hooked up Oliver and Sara, and now they had to sell that Oliver and Felicity were just super platonic friends with no attraction whatsoever, no, really, Oliver is with Sara now, audience! Stop projecting the O/F for the next three months or else the finale gotcha won't getcha.

In all fairness to OQ, in 214 he might not have noticed something was up with FS because 1. he was in a post-sex & post-dinner from hell haze and 2. he was actively trying to not think about FS. He was trying to pretend that he could move forward and away from his pesky emotions that he couldn't understand. The last time, I remember having a possibly unrequited feelings that I could not act on for someone I either willingly found ways to be near them or actively avoided them like plague. I feel like OQ vacillated between trying to keep his distance from and not being able to stay away. Emotions are not always so easy to control and strategize. Sex is easy. Hanging out with SL is easy. Possibly having feelings for your friend who is also your work & other work partner - well that's just mad hard & complicated, when you're emotionally healthy, nevermind whatever stage of unhealthy OQ was in s2.

[apinknightmare]

At this point I'll take Diggle not ignoring Felicity. He's acting like he's pissed at her, for some reason he has yet to express. He acts more sociable toward Oliver, the guy he's actually pissed at.

[kismet]

From the Felicity thread:

It would be lovely to think that this was true.  But I can't.

 

If you look at s1, there were times when Oliver was downright mean to Felicity.  Not "I'm trying to push you away because of my feelings" mean but "I don't think of you as a person" mean.  Look at the "codebreaker" scene in 1x16.  Felicity figures out that the phone call was to a Chinese restaurant they identify as part of the mob.  Oliver tells her to get him reservations for two, as if she's his secretary, and leaves, telling her to hurry up and get that code broken.  No thanks, no "I'll bring back some food for you".  Granted there were reasons (severe PTSD, fixation on Laurel) but still.

 

I hate the "You'll always be my girl" line because it feel like he's talking down to her. The guy didn't even realize she was upset. Diggle had to point it out to him.  Felicity is so completely off his radar in that episode except when she's stepping out of the box he's put her in, it's not even funny.  With all due respect to SA, Oliver may have realized that he had feelings for Felicity in 2x06 but in 2x13 she was at best sixth on his list of priorities, after Sara, Laurel, Tockman, Arrow work and QC.

I don't feel like what I said in my post was inaccurate. He did take her into the field multiple times in s1. And he never yelled at her for going into the field by herself, at least not that I can remember. My point was in S1 he took her out into the field and utilized her when strategically it made the most sense. He was nice to her, but he also was mean to her (just like he was mean to every other character). OQ default setting in s1 was mean. For what it is worth, you can have feelings and/or love someone & still be mean to them from time to time. It's not a great thing, but it happens. I've been mean to people I love and people who love me have been mean to me.

 

The whole "my girl" line is a matter personal interpretation. I see it as him admitting his feelings indirectly. You see it as he is talking down to her. Besides talking to the writers or to OQ himself, there is no way to determine who of us is correct. It was a vague statement that could be read multiple ways. Luckily, OQ has now learned to be more specific & deliberate in his emotional communications w/ FS.

[kismet]

At this point I'll take Diggle not ignoring Felicity. He's acting like he's pissed at her, for some reason he has yet to express. He acts more sociable toward Oliver, the guy he's actually pissed at.

I think I figured it out - Diggle is at home playing with his adorable daughter & sexy wife. So he sends JohnPod to hang out in the new lair & have "fun" with his new TA. That's why the helmet is so dumb looking. It covers all the necessary wiring to keep JohnPod running at bitter ex-jilted mode. Diggle has spent the summer on fun vacations & s4 chillin with the family.

[statsgirl]

In all fairness to OQ, in 214 he might not have noticed something was up with FS because 1. he was in a post-sex & post-dinner from hell haze and 2. he was actively trying to not think about FS.

I'll take the "actively trying to not think about FS".  But Diggle noticed early in the episode that Felicity was having trouble with Sara's new role in the lair (e.g. doing the blood analysis and the PDAs with Oliver) long before the Dinner From Hell.

 

Could Oliver really have been such an idiot as to think that making out with Sara in front of Felicity wasn't going to bother her?  He may not have thought that Felicity was into him but he did know that she was upset at losing Barry.

[lemotomato]

I think I figured it out - Diggle is at home playing with his adorable daughter & sexy wife. So he sends JohnPod to hang out in the new lair & have "fun" with his new TA. That's why the helmet is so dumb looking. It covers all the necessary wiring to keep JohnPod running at bitter ex-jilted mode. Diggle has spent the summer on fun vacations & s4 chillin with the family.

I like your theory. JohnPod is easier to write out than pod!Diggle.

 

It's interesting how Laurel only calls him "John". Oliver and Felicity, who have a 3-year-long partnership and friendship with him, have always called him Digg and Diggle, only using "John" for serious moments. (Lyla gets to call him Johnny because they have a history, and, well, she's his wife.) Initially, Laurel calling him "John" seems like she's closer to Digg than the people he went through 3 years of battles with, but after thinking about it, I feel like this actually makes the Laurel/"John" friendship superficial, since she doesn't even know him well enough to call him by his nickname, just his formal name. I mean, even from a meta standpoint, John Diggle has always been referred to as Digg-- by EPs, by the actors, by David Ramsey himself. If you knew anything about Diggle, you call him Diggle.

 

All this to say that I'm highly amused and skeptical at the sudden enthusiasm for "more Laurel/John" scenes, illustrated by one of the questions on MG's tumblr tonight. I'm sure it'll end up like the much hyped Laurel/Felicity friendship last season-- when she doesn't need him to prop her up, she'll treat him like he's not even there, like she's doing to Felicity this season.

Edited October 16, 2015 by lemotomato

[BkWurm1]

 

 

And then HE KILLED THE COUNT FOR FELICITY. Except then, in the very next episode, ooops, Felicity was all about Barry.  And then Felicity keeps being all about Barry, and tells Oliver to his face, hahahaha that she gets ONE guy interest and he's in a coma, and Oliver is there all "WHAT AM I, CHOPPED LIVER?" But instead he says "Maybe he's dreaming about you". Talk about projecting there, dude. But he gives up even the dream right then.

 

I just really really love the set up? I mean, it was dumb that they had to stall the development of their relationship for THIRTY EPISODES because these writers are the worst, but at least for me, they set it all up brilliantly in 2A.

 

 

 

The beautiful thing about finding out in season three that he'd literally been dreaming of her every night since he'd "died" was when that line was originally said "Maybe he's dreaming of you."  At the time I immediately clutched my pearls and screamed, OMG Oliver is dreaming about Felicity.  Then later they were down playing what we'd seen on screen and it's so nice to have it validated in a way so much bigger than I'd expected really.  The writers do screw things up, but that was a big thing to remember and play off of.  Really a beautiful and moving call back. 

 

The whole "my girl" line is a matter personal interpretation. I see it as him admitting his feelings indirectly. You see it as he is talking down to her. Besides talking to the writers or to OQ himself, there is no way to determine who of us is correct. It was a vague statement that could be read multiple ways. Luckily, OQ has now learned to be more specific & deliberate in his emotional communications w/ FS.

In the context of what Felicity was trying to say to him, what he said to her has always worked for me.  There was some amusement in his reply and I do think he was trying hard, really hard not to think of her in a romantic way while he was with Sara, but he couldn't keep himself from at least acknowledging that she was special to him in a way no one else could be.  I think there is truth in him saying more than he intended. 

 

As for talking down to her, she was totally loopy and that explained the tone to me 100% 

 

At this point I'll take Diggle not ignoring Felicity. He's acting like he's pissed at her, for some reason he has yet to express. He acts more sociable toward Oliver, the guy he's actually pissed at.

 

I am very much looking forward to next week because Dig is going to be forced to interact with Felicity.  He has been acting standoffish but part of that is that he hasn't been his normal warm, approachable self since they've been back.  Only with Baby Sara and Lyla, all the rest of the times he's been Mr. Grumpy Gus.  Even in the van scene with Laurel, he looked pissed in general. 

 

Laurel forced him to talk and so he talked.  Briefly.  And he was pretty snippy and defensive. (And she moved on to bigger ideas leaving his issues behind)

 

Felicity hasn't forced the issue with Diggle.  I'm willing to believe that Diggle has been taking his mood out on everyone on the team but Thea and Laurel just wouldn't know how drastically he's changed.  Felicity has been IMO giving him space but yeah, enough's enough. 

[Guest]

It's interesting how Laurel only calls him "John". Oliver and Felicity, who have a 3-year-long partnership and friendship with him, have always called him Digg and Diggle, only using "John" for serious moments. (Lyla gets to call him Johnny because they have a history, and, well, she's his wife.) Initially, Laurel calling him "John" seems like she's closer to Digg than the people he went through 3 years of battles with, but after thinking about it, I feel like this actually makes the Laurel/"John" friendship superficial, since she doesn't even know him well enough to call him by his nickname, just his formal name. I mean, even from a meta standpoint, John Diggle has always been referred to as Digg-- by EPs, by the actors, by David Ramsey himself. If you knew anything about Diggle, you call him Diggle.

 

All this to say that I'm highly amused and skeptical at the sudden enthusiasm for "more Laurel/John" scenes, illustrated by one of the questions on MG's tumblr tonight. I'm sure it'll end up like the much hyped Laurel/Felicity friendship last season-- when she doesn't need him to prop her up, she'll treat him like he's not even there, like she's doing to Felicity this season.

 

 

Felicity has called Diggle 'John' quite a few times, the last being in 323 when he walked out near the end and she called after him but Oliver went after him instead. But it's usually a mixture of John and Diggle. Oh, she also called him John over the comms in 402, too.

 

As for Laurel/Diggle scenes, I'm fine with it as long as they remember the long-standing friendships that already exist and that other people are already invested in. As I said before, I'd honestly have no problem with it because they were working together for 5 months but I hope it's not at the expense of Felicity/Diggle scenes and I worry that it is because of course.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Guest

[kismet]

I'll take the "actively trying to not think about FS".  But Diggle noticed early in the episode that Felicity was having trouble with Sara's new role in the lair (e.g. doing the blood analysis and the PDAs with Oliver) long before the Dinner From Hell.

 

Could Oliver really have been such an idiot as to think that making out with Sara in front of Felicity wasn't going to bother her?  He may not have thought that Felicity was into him but he did know that she was upset at losing Barry.

I honestly think that OQ did not believe 1. he was worthy of FS 2. FS cared about him deeply & 3. he ever had a chance of making it work with her. We have all talked about this ad nausem last season when FS was hesitant for reasons to admit to OQ that she cared/loved him. OQ was clueless that FS could possibly reciprocate his feelings. Heck, I'm not even sure FS was aware she reciprocated his feelings for a very long time. So I think it is reasonable that he wouldn't think kissing SL (they never made out in front of her) would bother her when she was still mooning over BA in his mind.

 

We as the audience have the benefit of seeing stuff our characters don't. Should he had noticed that she was a little off, yes. But he did by the end of the episode, perhaps with some help. He did make sure that she knew how valuable she was to him.

 

The are all grown adults, if they have issues they can talk about it or process it in their own way. I don't particularly enjoy PDA, but I wasn't offended by O/S occasional kisses considering that O/F were not ever together & nobody was aware of the others feelings. And by her own admission in the episode, her issues were not about O/S being together or kissing, they were about her place on the team. She solidified her place on the team that night through her actions. And OQ solidified it through his words.

 

And before we enter a-round-& a-round conversation. I think your default answer to most romantic relationship questions when it comes to OQ, is YES, he can be THAT much of an IDIOT. I love the guy, seriously he is on my top wish I was in a current TV show boyfriend list. But the guy is an emotional damaged, slightly broken, lost puppy with poor instincts when it comes to relationships. The last 5 months seemed to have stabilized some of his idiotic tendencies, but the OQ of s1-3 was an idiot when it came to love. I can defend him because I care & he is my fav. But yeah, at the end of the day he's just an idiot sometimes is the easiest answer without having to delve into the deep psychoanalytical rationales behind his behavior that explain his actions or words.

Edited October 16, 2015 by kismet

[lemotomato]

Felicity has called Diggle 'John' quite a few times, the last being in 323 when he walked out near the end and she called after him but Oliver went after him instead. But it's usually a mixture of John and Diggle. Oh, she also called him John over the comms in 402, too.

 

As for Laurel/Diggle scenes, I'm fine with it as long as they remember the long-standing friendships that already exist and that other people are already invested in. As I said before, I'd honestly have no problem with it because they were working together for 5 months but I hope it's not at the expense of Felicity/Diggle scenes and I worry that it is because of course.

You're much more generous than I am. I guess I'm seeing echoes of last season, when Felicity always ended up having heart-to-heart talks with Ray instead of Digg for no good reason other than to keep Ray in the fold, and I really don't want an encore of that again.

[kismet]

The beautiful thing about finding out in season three that he'd literally been dreaming of her every night since he'd "died" was when that line was originally said "Maybe he's dreaming of you."  At the time I immediately clutched my pearls and screamed, OMG Oliver is dreaming about Felicity.  Then later they were down playing what we'd seen on screen and it's so nice to have it validated in a way so much bigger than I'd expected really.  The writers do screw things up, but that was a big thing to remember and play off of.  Really a beautiful and moving call back. 

 

In the context of what Felicity was trying to say to him, what he said to her has always worked for me.  There was some amusement in his reply and I do think he was trying hard, really hard not to think of her in a romantic way while he was with Sara, but he couldn't keep himself from at least acknowledging that she was special to him in a way no one else could be.  I think there is truth in him saying more than he intended. 

 

As for talking down to her, she was totally loopy and that explained the tone to me 100% 

The symmetry & call back between s2 maybe he's dreaming about you to s3 nightly dreams of FS were the bee's knees for me. Seriously, I couldn't have swooned anymore if i tried. I just wanted to hug the writers' room for that. It was perfect. They don't always get things right - but sometimes when they do they hit it out of the park :)

 

I agree with your interpretation of the line, it was far more concise an analysis. :) Good point on her being loopy & him using a different tone. I must admit in my job I have to use a certain tone at times to get people to focus & listen, esp when they are loopy on drugs.

 

[BkWurm1]

You're much more generous than I am. I guess I'm seeing echoes of last season, when Felicity always ended up having heart-to-heart talks with Ray instead of Digg for no good reason other than to keep Ray in the fold, and I really don't want an encore of that again.

It's all about balance.  I can accept new people, but not at the expense of what I already loved.  I don't need Diggle to tell Felicity about Andy and HIVE, but I need them to still have a connection.  I would have happily taken a n the cheek and it's nice to see YOU from Dig when they first got back or even an amused roll of the eye from Dig when Felicity tried to high five him.  I'm not asking for much, just that he stops ignoring her for everything but business. 

[BkWurm1]

Duplicate post

Edited October 16, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Genki]

I don't feel like what I said in my post was inaccurate. He did take her into the field multiple times in s1. And he never yelled at her for going into the field by herself, at least not that I can remember. My point was in S1 he took her out into the field and utilized her when strategically it made the most sense. He was nice to her, but he also was mean to her (just like he was mean to every other character). OQ default setting in s1 was mean. For what it is worth, you can have feelings and/or love someone & still be mean to them from time to time. It's not a great thing, but it happens. I've been mean to people I love and people who love me have been mean to me.

 

 

Personally I think it was a positive thing when Oliver stopped being Fake and "Olllie" around Felicity and start showing his true damaged self. Sure that led to less cute moments but it gave a deeper connection. Oliver was faking his way through his past relationships in S1 & S2 and only John and Felicity got to see his true self.

 

Oliver had a hard time keeping his Game face when it came to Felicity post 2.06, and I loved it. 

 

 

You're much more generous than I am. I guess I'm seeing echoes of last season, when Felicity always ended up having heart-to-heart talks with Ray instead of Digg for no good reason other than to keep Ray in the fold, and I really don't want an encore of that again.

 

 

Yeah it does seem that Felicity/Diggle gets sacrificed for the sake of "legitimising" other characters, which I do not want, nor do I approve of. However I am annoyed about Diggle's general attitude of late. I think he does resent Felicity for leaving with Oliver and her forgiving him so easily. He has been cold, I didn't notice it in 4.01 but once you guys pointed it out, it was noticeable in 4.02

 

Does Diggle have a job? I would like him to work with either Felicity or Oliver again, Since Felicity has a PT employee/friend I hope/think it will be with Oliver once he starts the campaign

Or am I forgetting a spoiler of him working with the Police????

Edited October 16, 2015 by Genki

[InsertWordHere]

 

Does Diggle have a job? I would like him to work with either Felicity or Oliver again, Since Felicity has a PT employee/friend I hope it will be with Oliver once he starts the campaign. 

I don't think Diggle has a job right now, unless he's someone's daytime bodyguard offscreen.

[Genki]

I don't think Diggle has a job right now, unless he's someone's daytime bodyguard offscreen.

 

He's probably Stay at home DILF.

[Password]

Is Lyla back at Argus? If not where do the Diggles get money...?

[kismet]

Personally I think it was a positive thing when Oliver stopped being Fake and "Olllie" around Felicity and start showing his true damaged self. Sure that led to less cute moments but it gave a deeper connection. Oliver was faking his way through his past relationships in S1 & S2 and only John and Felicity got to see his true self.

 

Oliver had a hard time keeping his Game face when it came to Felicity post 2.06, and I loved it. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah it does seem that Felicity/Diggle gets sacrificed for the sake of "legitimising" other characters, which I do not want, nor do I approve of. However I am annoyed about Diggle's general attitude of late. I think he does resent Felicity for leaving with Oliver and her forgiving him so easily. He has been cold, I didn't notice it in 4.01 but once you guys pointed it out, it was noticeable in 4.02

 

Does Diggle have a job? I would like him to work with either Felicity or Oliver again, Since Felicity has a PT employee/friend I hope it will be with Oliver once he starts the campaign. 

Or am I forgetting a spoiler of him working with the Police????

.

Agree, which is why it breaks my heart that the BrOTP is so broken, F/D barely interact anymore & OTA has been reduced to a misinformed PR hashtag for attention.

 

OQ being his true self around Dig & FS was what made the relationships & chemistry seem so magical & yet real at the same time. I wish we didn't have to give it up again for another season of plot points.

 

Dig will probably work

with SCPD

because his new bestie has an in with the

Police Captain

. Also since QL & JohnPod are substituting for S3's StupidOQ & PodFelicity we need an "organic" reason to not have OTA interact,

cue 1 way tix for them to their own plot island furnished with a hive and a beautiful eyed monster

.

 

(Or maybe I just feel too much in my bones, these days)

[InsertWordHere]

I've assumed Lyla is freelancing or something. There's got to be some other government agencies not run by Waller who would appreciate her skills, right? 

[Guest]

You're much more generous than I am. I guess I'm seeing echoes of last season, when Felicity always ended up having heart-to-heart talks with Ray instead of Digg for no good reason other than to keep Ray in the fold, and I really don't want an encore of that again.

 

Haha. I'm trying to be objective in some things. Like it or not, Laurel is on the team now. She worked with Diggle for 5 months. I have to accept that they can talk to each other. But I do not appreciate these scenes being forced at the sake of friendships already built. I'll wait and see how it develops but yeah, if this continues and it's gonna be another season of not seeing a relationship I happen to enjoy, I will be pissed. Believe me. But it's early days. I guess watch this space… :)

Edited October 16, 2015 by Guest

[bijoux]

Is Lyla back at Argus? If not where do the Diggles get money...?

 

People have said that Oliver left Dig and Felicity each with a million $ before he headed for Lian Yu after S1. It was in the comics if I remember correctly.

 

I've assumed Lyla is freelancing or something. There's got to be some other government agencies not run by Waller who would appreciate her skills, right? 

Oh, yes, this would be even better. Lyla is such an asset that it would be crazy if people weren't knocking on her door in droves to have her.

[looptab]

Totally out of the current conversation, but since I've seen it mentioned, can I just say that I kinda hated when Oliver recounted his recurring dream to Felicity? Not that he dreamt about her, mind you, but how  inaccurate can you be, Arrow writers? In the scene in 309 she explicitly said she wasn't going to ask him not to go, and then he goes and says "You're pleading with me not to go, and  I say yes". Huh, no.

 

Maybe I'm too prickly, maybe Oliver just has troubles with his memory, or reimagined how the conversation went because he was secretly heartbroken that she didn't ask him to stay? 

[bijoux]

It's a dream, not Oliver remembering what actually happened when they last saw each other before he went to fight Ra's. I never had problems with it. It was more like chose your own adventure, what if thing. What if she had asked, what if he had said yes?

[looptab]

I don't know, I guess since in 311 they showed him dreaming about that exact conversation, it seemed that "Felicity pleading with me not to go" it's how he dubbed that moment before he goes to face Ra's. I know it's a dream he's had, and that the subconscious re-elaborates and so on, I just perceived it badly at the time.

I probably should say that I haven't rewatched a single episode of S3, just some random scenes, and not one of them were from the finale. I was more than fed-up in May, so maybe that influenced my perception then and I'm still facing the consequences now, lol.

Edited October 16, 2015 by looptab

[Password]

How do you feel about the Oliver-Felicity relationship now?

[bijoux]

This gifset is going around Tumblr.

 

 

 

And I'm trying to figure out what it is that has me raising an eyebrow. And it's the fact that Diggle is separated from both Oliver and Felicity by Laurel and Thea. Nice positioning there. Or, you know, not necessarily nice in a way I enjoy, but aware in a way I can appreciate. So, what I'm saying is good job there. Now start bringing the three of them closer again.

[looptab]

How do you feel about the Oliver-Felicity relationship now?

I adore them :) And to clarify, I did last year, too. It's just that, by the time the finale rolled, I had had enough of the bad writing for the season, and I was ready to side-eye the writers for everything, ahah. But, as far as this season is going,I have nothing to complain about wrt O/F and each of them individually. Actually, they're surprising me in a positive way! I hope it'll come a day when I'll be able to watch S3 and appreciate it. The only scenes I've managed/wanted to rewatch are from the crossovers,  316 and 319. I just have to muster up the courage for the rest! :)

[dtissagirl]

People have said that Oliver left Dig and Felicity each with a million $ before he headed for Lian Yu after S1. It was in the comics if I remember correctly.

 

Yup. I've always fanwanked they used that money to pimp out the Arrow cave during the five months Oliver was manpaining in Lian Yu.

[Primal Slayer]

I like your theory. JohnPod is easier to write out than pod!Diggle.

 

It's interesting how Laurel only calls him "John". Oliver and Felicity, who have a 3-year-long partnership and friendship with him, have always called him Digg and Diggle, only using "John" for serious moments. (Lyla gets to call him Johnny because they have a history, and, well, she's his wife.) Initially, Laurel calling him "John" seems like she's closer to Digg than the people he went through 3 years of battles with, but after thinking about it, I feel like this actually makes the Laurel/"John" friendship superficial, since she doesn't even know him well enough to call him by his nickname, just his formal name. I mean, even from a meta standpoint, John Diggle has always been referred to as Digg-- by EPs, by the actors, by David Ramsey himself. If you knew anything about Diggle, you call him Diggle.

 

I saw it the opposite way. Diggle is basically the equivalent to Ollie to me.  

[apinknightmare]

IIRC, Digg asked to be called by his last name. I've never heard Oliver ask to be called Ollie.

That being said, Oliver and Felicity (IDK about the others) use John, Digg, and Diggle interchangeably, so the John vs. Diggle argument doesn't hold up.

[Sakura12]

Oliver called himself "Ollie" when he left that voicemail for Laurel in S2 to come to her sister's welcome back from the dead party. 

 

Laurel calling him John, makes it seem more formal to me. Diggle goes by his last name most of the time. Even Sara was calling him Digg. Lyla can call him whatever she wants, she's his wife. 

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I get Oliver referring to himself as Ollie to people who actually call him that, but Diggle flat out asked to be called Diggle (or Digg-I can't remember). I can't recall Oliver telling anyone he met to call him Ollie.

As for the John vs. Digg vs. Diggle thing, I don't think there's much of an argument there. This ep, Felicity called him John, Oliver called him Diggle. Oliver called him John last season when they were having heartfelt moments. I don't think John vs. Diggle is the same as Oliver vs. Ollie. All of Digg's names seem to be interchangeable.

The name usage didn't ring false to me during that conversation, but the fact that Digg told Laurel something he'd kept hidden from O&F for two years-prior to their falling out-definitely did.