Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[Sunshine]

Maybe TPTB are trying to say she had no right to be mad?  They were trying to frame it as Oliver being in an impossible situation.   They were throwing everybody (Thea in particular) and his brother under the bus to try to make Oliver sympathetic after the reactions to 4.08.  She should have been more understanding.  I actually don't agree with any of this but I think it's the story they are telling.  

[statsgirl]

If that's the story they're telling, then they're still trying to CYA after the whole BMD mess up.

39 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

I think she gave him every opportunity to have his say before she broke up with him.  If anything, I think we didn't get as much of Felicity's POV out of the whole William situation since by the end of the episode after Oliver discussed William with Vixen and Diggle, Oliver already sent William away without a discussion with Felicity.  What else would Oliver need to say to explain why he doesn't include her in big decisions when he talked to Mari and Diggle already.  I'm not sure what else could have been done on Felicity's part to really work things out with Oliver at that point - he wasn't honest with her and he didn't include her - more talking can't fix what he did.

This is a key point for me -- that they had already had the discussion about not including her in his decisions, and right away, he does it again.  He's not just a repeat offender, he's a serial offender.  To stay with him and let it keep happening over and over again would make her an idiot.

Oliver told Team B a secret he had been keeping since before he met them, and they got mad at him.  Felicity told Mayo a secret that she had been keeping since before she met him, and he didn't get mad at her.  Are we supposed to see these as parallels?  Probably if Oliver had told Felicity about William, she wouldn't have got mad at him either.  That's the parallel I see, but the lesson is Oliver's not Felicity's.

The lack of logic on this show, it burns.

[dirtypop90]

I hope that's not the story they are telling. there is truly no comparison. To put it simply, you can't ask a woman to marry you twice and not tell her you have a kid. I don't care about the why. It's just so so so so wrong. Not to mention he was visiting said kid on the weekend and therefore must have been lying to his fiance about it. I dont understand how the woman can at all be blamed for walking away. I echo the thought that I'm not sure what more Oliver could have said.

Not telling your boyfriend of a couple months about your side (albeit dangerous) job just doesn't compare. 

Edited November 12, 2016 by dirtypop90

[apinknightmare]

That scene was the only one I watched from the last ep - but I'm not sure they're trying to draw any parallels (although I can't rule it out because this show is real iffy with getting its message across sometimes). I think they were just showing that good 'ol Billy wasn't upset because he's good and the best and totally not up to something shifty, no sir! 

[way2interested]

59 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

That scene was the only one I watched from the last ep - but I'm not sure they're trying to draw any parallels (although I can't rule it out because this show is real iffy with getting its message across sometimes). I think they were just showing that good 'ol Billy wasn't upset because he's good and the best and totally not up to something shifty, no sir! 

Yeah, I think that might be right on the other hand. I think it just threw me off how descriptive Felicity was at his reaction (You're not feeling mad, hurt, or a lack of trust?), since it was being pretty specific. But it did push me more towards the idea that the dude might definitely be evil from how cut and dry it was. 

[looptab]

To me the purpose of that scene was explicitly stated, she told him in reaction to Oliver's behavior. Much like in 315 she wouldn't allow Ray to be a crazy scientist because Oliver was yet again making a dumb decision, here she said 'my friend keeps holding stuff from the people closest to him, and I don't want to be like that'. If anything, they are telling that she still has issues with Oliver's typical MO.

[BkWurm1]

4 minutes ago, looptab said:

To me the purpose of that scene was explicitly stated, she told him in reaction to Oliver's behavior. Much like in 315 she wouldn't allow Ray to be a crazy scientist because Oliver was yet again making a dumb decision, here she said 'my friend keeps holding stuff from the people closest to him, and I don't want to be like that'. If anything, they are telling that she still has issues with Oliver's typical MO.

I know Felicity has been with Mayo for at least a couple months but I still can't help equate 315 with 306, Oliver falls back on bad habits and she turns to someone else in a kind of protest almost.  There can be no doubt that telling Mayo was more about Oliver and what she thought was right, than Mayo.   

[Mellowyellow]

I really enjoyed Felicity’s comment about finding out ugly things about Oliver’s past. To me it was a bit bitter and I have always felt that she had handled the William situation with a lot more class than I personally wanted her to so I felt vindicated that she snarked about Oliver’s sh#tty history of lying in 506.

[BkWurm1]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I really enjoyed Felicity’s comment about finding out ugly things about Oliver’s past. To me it was a bit bitter and I have always felt that she had handled the William situation with a lot more class than I personally wanted her to so I felt vindicated that she snarked about Oliver’s sh#tty history of lying in 506.

Speaking of that moment, my openness to Evelyn took a big dive after her reaction.  It wasn't so much not wanting to talk or even turning off the com, (though even the idiot Wild Dong hasn't done that) but the expression on her face was so snide and full of disgust that I can't think of her the same way anymore.  I know it's probably just the actress making a poor choice but if that's how the actress thinks her character should react, I'm not sure I'm ever going to warm to the character.    

[looptab]

The actress was also making eyes at Oliver in their final convo, so, I think there lies the problem, haha. I guess she can just get the extremes and nothing in between.

[EmilyBettFan]

9 minutes ago, looptab said:

The actress was also making eyes at Oliver in their final convo, so, I think there lies the problem, haha. I guess she can just get the extremes and nothing in between.

Yeah her acting choices are really awkward and here we are again with a KC type actor.

[Ophanim]

If we want be optimistic and believe Oliver and Felicity scenes with others had meaning in regard to F&O relationship in the past dealings, to have resolution and move forward with each other and have second chance in relationship, writers must go back to William and why Oliver thought he can't have him in life, even part time.  When Oliver come to decision to make contact with son (writers can't ignore his existence, as much as we as viewers hate that story line), he will be on his way to accept dual role of mask and person behind. In my head, when he make that decision, Felicity would support him and give him the address where his son is living, with consent from Samantha because she is in casual contact with mother and care for well-being of his son, protecting him from prying eyes. That is my canon - writers will probably  just gloss over everything. 

Second scenario, if we want be pessimistic regarding future of O&F, possible meaning behind F having normal understanding  BF who loves her (WM said that) and would do everything for her (my interpretation), is her chance to have normal life, leave behind all superhero stuff and stress coming with it. Maybe in one future episode, Felicity will have choice: leave with him (because he got job offer somewhere in Ivy town) or stay in SC with team Arrow. But this isn't in her character so far, but who knows, writers constantly changing characters for plot, so by the end, maybe she will be done with superheroing. 

And third scenario: if BF is Prometheus itself or bad in some way, then well, I got nothing. But I don't think he is baddie. Just fans trying to found some meaning in all this BF business, in absence of Felicity's POV and her feelings. She is way to open with BF for him to be baddie. I need more information from writers to conclude something that big, I can't rely just on actors acting choices. 

I know, it all sounds little fanfictiony. In my defense,  I read too much ff. 

Edited November 13, 2016 by Lidach

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, Lidach said:

And third scenario: if BF is Prometheus itself or bad in some way, then well, I got nothing. But I don't think he is baddie. Just fans trying to found some meaning in all this BF business, in absence of Felicity's POV and her feelings. She is way to open with BF for him to be baddie. I need more information from writers to conclude something that big, I can't rely just on actors acting choices. 

She is very open with him but I don't think that eliminates him as a baddie.  

[Morrigan2575]

7 hours ago, EmilyBettFan said:

Yeah her acting choices are really awkward and here we are again with a KC type actor.

 

7 hours ago, looptab said:

The actress was also making eyes at Oliver in their final convo, so, I think there lies the problem, haha. I guess she can just get the extremes and nothing in between.

The actress just isn't very good. She stunk as Chrissy on SPN and, I just caught a Major Crimes rerun, she played Rusty's friend Chrissy in.that show. She wasn't horrible but, it's hard to screw up less than 2 minutes of screentime and a handful of lines.

[statsgirl]

4 hours ago, Lidach said:

If we want be optimistic and believe Oliver and Felicity scenes with others had meaning in regard to F&O relationship in the past dealings, to have resolution and move forward with each other and have second chance in relationship, writers must go back to William and why Oliver thought he can't have him in life, even part time.  When Oliver come to decision to make contact with son (writers can't ignore his existence, as much as we as viewers hate that story line), he will be on his way to accept dual role of mask and person behind. In my head, when he make that decision, Felicity would support him and give him the address where his son is living, with consent from Samantha because she is in casual contact with mother and care for well-being of his son, protecting him from prying eyes. That is my canon - writers will probably  just gloss over everything.

That sounds wonderful.  I'm just afraid that the writers, esp MG, think that Oliver did the right thing both in lying to Felicity and sending William away.  It's possible they may have Oliver acknowledge that he was wrong to decide on his own to send William away without talking to Felicity first as a partner, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Ophanim]

Even if EPs don't acknowledge that Oliver WAS wrong, still remain the FACT that he has a son. So Oliver can't move forward in any relationship until he solves that inner problem with himself. I mean, what if he actually found new love with someone else beside Felicity. What? He will hold this secret also from this person, for the rest of his life? And again make same mistake, twice. I mean, he can and he probably would, in this point in the show. But to move character from this stalemate, to make progress, to make right decision, writers must address his stance on this matter. And especially because this isn't about Green Arrow, it's about Oliver Queen. And one day when he pass his mask to another vigilante (that would be my prefer end to this show) he will continue life as Oliver Queen, and he must face his consequence and fatherhood, before he again in some future become again father (and he probably will, just maybe not on screen) and to become full-fledged person. 

Spoiler

Let's talk about his potential new relationship with another person, now possibly Tina? How you see his character in this relationship? Let just presume she is his new LI, how you see his progress? When he was with Sara, he wanted to move in with her, and she said no, so he always wanted human close connection with someone. What if Tina in this instance says Yes. They move together, we watch this new Oliver, what's point? Tina is probably new Canary, how, I don't know. She is as told bad ass, and has potential regular status. And if actress and SA have sizzle chemistry, you have a new BC/GA pair, and imo this is all what DC/WB want. And with the way writers writing O/F right now, as the buddies, this is actual possibility. They destroyed One True Love Pairing in like one season, they can do it again and build new canon OTP. They are trying way hard to make O/F as only friends.  If Oliver showed any jealousy toward BF, I would think there is chance for Olicity again (jealousy=feelings), but for now, he is like robot and showing almost no emotions about all of this nor interest in Felicity even as a friend. Felicity is in her bubble/dating seriously and her teasing Oliver about GF is unrealistic, if she has some residual feelings toward him. So she moved first, and next is Oliver, reporter is just red herring, the real deal is next LI - Tina. Just my 5 cent. What do you think? I don't wanna this, but if shows goes to season 7/8/9, there is enough time. 

Edited November 13, 2016 by Lidach

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, Lidach said:

So Oliver can't move forward in any relationship until he solves that inner problem with himself. I mean, what if he actually found new love with someone else beside Felicity. What? He will hold this secret also from this person, for the rest of his life?

First I'd need to know if he was still keeping it a secret.  Now that William is gone and Oliver doesn't know where (OMG it would be so easy for the team to figure out, this plot point kills me.) he might be fine with vaguely mentioning he had a kid that lived with his mother that he didn't get to see and that would be the end of the subject.  But worst case scenario would be he offers to share all the details only to be told he didn't need to since it was none of their business anyway.  I'd black out rage if this happened.  And quit.  But the more vague mention seems more likely.  Or just pretend the kid never happened and retcon anything then need as having happened off

 

3 hours ago, Lidach said:

They are trying way hard to make O/F as only friends.  If Oliver showed any jealousy toward BF, I would think there is chance for Olicity again (jealousy=feelings), but for now, he is like robot and showing almost no emotions about all of this nor interest in Felicity even as a friend. Felicity is in her bubble/dating seriously and her teasing Oliver about GF is unrealistic, if she has some residual feelings toward him.

This part under the spoiler tag wasn't a spoiler so I quoted it.  

I actually saw in that scene Felicity not being so light and bubbly in her repeated mention of his Girlfriend.  I saw some latent hostility being masked under flippancy.  She was needling him, not teasing IMO and it was this close to an accusation since she had to find out about it from Thea.  So I thought there was some jealously underneath everything.

As for what's under the spoiler tag, it's really far too soon to call.  Nothing is a foregone conclusion.  

Edited November 13, 2016 by BkWurm1

[ComicFan777]

Yeah, I think the combination of Felicity's repeated mentions of his girlfriend and Oliver's mention of "the person you're dating" without addressing Malone (even though he knows his name) were both of them passive-aggressively showing their jealousy as "mature" adults.

[dirtypop90]

I didn't sense any hostility with felicity's gf remarks which is why they didnt work for me. I sensed more hostility when she asked Oliver how many girlfriends he had on the island in season 1 (or 2 can't quite remember).  Her season one self would've teased oliver the same way. She sounded more like a girl who had a crush on a guy than an ex fiance (season 1 Felicity). Their reactions just dont feel right for people who were engaged.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, dirtypop90 said:

I didn't sense any hostility with felicity's gf remarks which is why they didnt work for me. I sensed more hostility when she asked Oliver how many girlfriends he had on the island in season 1 (or 2 can't quite remember).  Her season one self would've teased oliver the same way. She sounded more like a girl who had a crush on a guy than an ex fiance (season 1 Felicity). Their reactions just dont feel right for people who were engaged.

It wasn't overt, more like it was seeping out as she went on.  It stood out to me because I wasn't expecting any reaction since the first time when she first brought up the girlfriend I agree she did seem just to be teasing but each time she said girlfriend the more forced it sounded to me.  But YMMV

[statsgirl]

I'd like to think so, but the show isn't that subtle.  And what good does it do for Felicity to show any jealousy when we're stuck with Mayo in Felicity's bedroom and

Spoiler

Oliver will probably be banging a number of women before the end of the season.

?

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I'd like to think so, but the show isn't that subtle.  And what good does it do for Felicity to show any jealousy when we're stuck with Mayo in Felicity's bedroom and

  Hide contents

Oliver will probably be banging a number of women before the end of the season.

?

But sometimes the actors are.  Tells me at least there hasn't been a mandate to the actors to completely purge any hints of the past.  I'll take my hope where I can find it. 

[ladylaw99]

My problem with these relationships is none of it feels real.  Felicity is in this relationship and as many others have stated we know nothing -how they met, what the attraction is between the two of them (because I don't see it). I don't know why they are together.  As for Oliver I am not surprise that he will be going from  one woman to another.  Which is sad because at this point he shouldn't be doing that imo.

As for Oliver and Felicity, I am confused.  Imo they do not act like a couple who almost got married.  Getting married is a huge commitment and that love does not go away that quickly. I am sorry, if my husband hurt me the way Oliver hurt Felicity there is no way we would be interacting like these two. I would not be able to let go of this. Trust is earned not given and Oliver needs to earn it back and not only in a romantic sense. As a friend how could you trust him. I know I wouldn't. But I am harsh that way.

It's a show that does not show emotion therefore right now I feel nothing for the some of the characters. I still care for Felicity and I feel like as usual she is getting the short  end of the stick. I don't like it.

[kismet]

The break-up was definitely because of OQ's choices. However, FS does share a part of the blame for not trying to fix what OQ broke. I totally get that OQ has the majority of the heavy lifting to do, but FS also needs to do something besides just walk away. She was correct to walk away, but the depth of their relationship should have come into play at some point, especially as the season was winding down.

But at the end of the day, that is all on the writing and TPTB running the show. The FS I know would have tried to repair the relationship. The OQ I know would not have kept so much from FS for so long, especially after MM revealed that he knew about William. SO when I try to understand O&F motivations regarding William and the Break-up - all I see is PLOT... for PLOT, to help explain plot. And the writer's lack of understanding their characters has blinded them to the fact that their characters have outgrown their poorly written Plots.

I do see the potential of them using Mayo to help FS learn that there is give and take in relationships. MIT BF, didn't provide that healthy relationship for her. Ray was too focused on his suit and his silly obsession with love, that I don't think it wound up being balanced. So now they are trying again with Mayo, because if they just actually accepted O/F as the well balanced couple they are - how would they actually be able to write stories? Ultimately, I don't think it is in these writers' wheelhouse to write mature, balanced relationships. It takes skill to make the drama not come from cliched melodrama. I don't think they possess that level of skill. So we have Stall- for PLOT - Stall - for PLOT repeating until the final season.

[statsgirl]

I think ideally both parts should compromise for a better relationship but I have a hard time seeing what else Felicity could have done.  It's not like this is the first, or the fifth time Oliver has kept something from her.  It's not like he didn't want to marry her, or tell her she was his partner, or tell her she wouldn't lie to her.

The whole thing was stupid but given Oliver's behaviour I think she couldn't have done anything else to give him the message.

That said, they should have got back together long before now.  Felicity getting into a relationship with Mayo to see if she can get past the love of her life (per EBR) is equally stupid.

[dirtypop90]

The new relationships don't bother me as much as the strange interaction between oliver and felicity. I may not like the new relationships but felicity entering into a rebound relationship with a vanilla dude who cant break her heart and oliver whoring around again arent illogical writing choices for these characters. What frustrates me the most is TPTB writing oliver and felicity as if they were never engaged. It's like they dont like the pairing they created, but that pairing has a fanbase and the actors have chemistry, so they just pressed backspace on what they wrote in seasons 3 and 4.  

[Mellowyellow]

I don't see how else they'd act though. How would you want them to act if they are broken up and working together?

In real life they'd probably never see or speak to each other again. There is no way you'd be hanging around each other if all that stuff happened.  So if they need them on the show together they need to write it as if they were never engaged. 

ETA: Sometimes I wonder if reading a tonne of fanfic has skewed what I think is really the O and F relationship on the show.  In fanfic it's always epic, he usually puts her first. 

If I think about the show he's always running after stupid Thea and whatever MM related disaster, didn't stay with her when she was severly wounded and paralysed, had the gall to randomly tell her he loved her just as he was heading off to die.

Oliver on the show is all talk!

Edited November 15, 2016 by Mellowyellow

[way2interested]

37 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I don't see how else they'd act though. How would you want them to act if they are broken up and working together?

In real life they'd probably never see or speak to each other again. There is no way you'd be hanging around each other if all that stuff happened.  So if they need them on the show together they need to write it as if they were never engaged. 

I mean, to me, it's just a bit too jovial, if that makes sense. Yes, in real life they would never speak to each other again, but this is TV life. In normal TV life though (or, from what I've seen), there is usually some form of confrontation/explanation as to what the status quo of the relationship is. This should have happened in 423 (or at least 501) but instead "happened" in 505. That's 4 episodes of them acting basically like s2 with no recap of how their relationship was going (except for Oliver's vague hope in 501 that cut to the *surprise* bf).

But, as of now, the way they are acting feels straight out of s1/s2, which doesn't make sense because we are on s5. They don't seem to have as much as an emotional attachment to one another, save for times when Felicity has to give Oliver an inspiring speech or when Oliver talked with Felicity in 505. Felicity only jokes with Oliver while Oliver only acknowledges Felicity. They still like each other, sure, but they don't seem as emotionally connected anymore. Even scenes in 2b, s3, or 4b post breakup had more concern for each other than a bunch of the scenes now. Retreating all the way back to a s1/s2 style relationship just seems like they are not just ignoring the engagement but all of the emotional development that went between them since s1.

A lot of this is just me ranting/rambling, my bad, but I guess to answer the real question you had, I would just have them care more about each other. I know that they don't have the type of relationship of emotional vulnerability/sharing with each other (ex: why Felicity isn't telling him anything), but friends can still love each other in different ways. Heck, Oliver looks like he cared more about Diggle and Lance than the woman he intended to be his "always" this season so far. (That part I'm kind of chalking up to SA for this season, but whatever). Felicity has only had a couple of actually soft/friendly scenes with Oliver that didn't involve giving him a speech or joking or making fun of him in some way (both in 505 only, I can't really remember many others).

Idk, I guess I want them to be closer friends than they are? I get in real life that wouldn't happen, but this is a couple that more likely than not will come back together at some point in the future, so I'd like to see a more substantial "friendship" than this.

Edited November 15, 2016 by way2interested

[Mellowyellow]

Thanks for expanding @way2interested

I get what you're saying.  At this point I personally think that Felicity deserves better than him and I'd actually be ok if she remained a main character on the show for how ever many seasons it ran and in the end they gave her Smoak Technologies  and a relationship with someone as impressive as her (I'd want her to have it all). 

Maybe I'm just bitter right now but I don't think in show Oliver has much to offer her or even loves her that much. 

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, dirtypop90 said:

The new relationships don't bother me as much as the strange interaction between oliver and felicity. I may not like the new relationships but felicity entering into a rebound relationship with a vanilla dude who cant break her heart and oliver whoring around again arent illogical writing choices for these characters. What frustrates me the most is TPTB writing oliver and felicity as if they were never engaged. 

 

38 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I mean, to me, it's just a bit too jovial, if that makes sense. Yes, in real life they would never speak to each other again, but this is TV life. In normal TV life though (or, from what I've seen), there is usually some form of confrontation/explanation as to what the status quo of the relationship is. This should have happened in 423 (or at least 501) but instead "happened" in 505. That's 4 episodes of them acting basically like s2 with no recap of how their relationship was going (except for Oliver's vague hope in 501 that cut to the *surprise* bf).

But, as of now, the way they are acting feels straight out of s1/s2, which doesn't make sense because we are on s5. They don't seem to have as much as an emotional attachment to one another, save for times when Felicity has to give Oliver an inspiring speech or when Oliver talked with Felicity in 505. Felicity only jokes with Oliver while Oliver only acknowledges Felicity. They still like each other, sure, but they don't seem as emotionally connected anymore. Even scenes in 2b, s3, or 4b post breakup had more concern for each other than a bunch of the scenes now. Retreating all the way back to a s1/s2 style relationship just seems like they are not just ignoring the engagement but all of the emotional development that went between them since s1.

A lot of this is just me ranting/rambling, my bad, but I guess to answer the real question you had, I would just have them care more about each other. I know that they don't have the type of relationship of emotional vulnerability/sharing with each other (ex: why Felicity isn't telling him anything), but friends can still love each other in different ways. Heck, Oliver looks like he cared more about Diggle and Lance than the woman he intended to be his "always" this season so far. (That part I'm kind of chalking up to SA for this season, but whatever). Felicity has only had a couple of actually soft/friendly scenes with Oliver that didn't involve giving him a speech or joking or making fun of him in some way (both in 505 only, I can't really remember many others).

Idk, I guess I want them to be closer friends than they are? I get in real life that wouldn't happen, but this is a couple that more likely than not will come back together at some point in the future, so I'd like to see a more substantial "friendship" than this.

I actually haven't had a problem with how they've behaved around each other.  Are they acting like they were never engaged, yes, but that's just it, it's IMO the facade they've both retreated to.  Felicity's spelled out her walls.  They don't have that kind of relationship anymore.  What she can do is treat him (most of the time) as she did before they became a couple because maintaining that distance right now is what is keeping the working relationship working.  Oliver has also for the most part retreated behind his own walls, he's almost always focusing on the business at hand  and except for those really low moments (and it's telling that she's not sharing hers with him at all) he mostly keeps up his guard.  Which is really sad but its probably what currently is needed to make the partnership that clearly still means so much to both of them work.  

Every time something feels off, it just reminds me that it should feel off because they shouldn't be apart, but right now, they are.  

[looptab]

3 hours ago, kismet said:

FS does share a part of the blame for not trying to fix what OQ broke.

Uh..what?

Sorry, no. Just..no.

[Password]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

 

I actually haven't had a problem with how they've behaved around each other.  Are they acting like they were never engaged, yes, but that's just it, it's IMO the facade they've both retreated to.  Felicity's spelled out her walls.  They don't have that kind of relationship anymore.  What she can do is treat him (most of the time) as she did before they became a couple because maintaining that distance right now is what is keeping the working relationship working.  Oliver has also for the most part retreated behind his own walls, he's almost always focusing on the business at hand  and except for those really low moments (and it's telling that she's not sharing hers with him at all) he mostly keeps up his guard.  Which is really sad but its probably what currently is needed to make the partnership that clearly still means so much to both of them work. 

I would agree with you, if I had any faith in these writers. Frankly I'd rather believe the writers are trying to write them and their relationship as "mature" than Felicity and Oliver dealing with being apart in an organic way. These are the same writers that had Oliver and Sara together for the most of the back end of season 2, and a week after their break up had Oliver confess he loves Felicity (trickery aside). I don't think subtlety are the writers specialty so Felicity in season 2 mode in relation to their relationship, and Oliver being stoic is exactly what the writers want them to be.

[ComicFan777]

I think before anything can happen between O/F again is for Oliver to show that he is working to change how he reacts when the situation gets tough - Oliver generally goes lone wolf, have difficulty being honest and include her.  Episode 5.04 showed us that Oliver hasn't changed when it comes to difficult, urgent situations where he still wasn't straight with her, he kept her out of the loop and shut her out because she didn't agree with him, and continued to make decisions for other people.  I think she needs to see that change before she can let herself take any step towards him.

Edited November 15, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Carrie Ann]

I could be okay with how they are around each other if we could see them showing any emotion w/r/t the other person when they are alone or with others. Just show them turning away and making a different face than the one they present to each other, etc. But because the show isn't giving us any kind of insight into any conflicted feelings--or really any feelings at all--I just feel at a loss for how these two people got to this point only six months after canceling their wedding or how they feel about it now. As I said after 505, it feels to me like the writers have stopped writing any kind of story between them at all (and are carrying on as though parts of their story never happened), and that's not acceptable to me as a viewer who invested in that story for four and a half seasons.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[ComicFan777]

I'm having a really difficult time reading Oliver this season.  

Has he always made faces like he is annoyed with her when Felicity makes a joke?  I seem to notice it more this season.

[ladylaw99]

The big problem that I am having is there was no discussion.  Oliver lied to Felicity for no good reason.  The EP's can spin it anyway they want to but, it was stupid. The fact that Felicity had no POV kills me.  I could care less that this was a hard decision for Oliver, he made it difficult, because the reality is it really wasn't.  You tell your suppose love of your life the truth - you have a kid and deal with the baby mama after.

Don't get me wrong I also thought Felicity getting up (how convenient) and just walk out on Oliver was the dumbest thing I have seen.  It was not dramatic at all just stupid.  We should have seen them hash it out and now see them rebuild their relationship, gain the trust and finally see Oliver be a man, not some boy who can't get his sh$t together. 

Now I have Felicity in a relationship that is so boring and pointless.  Why can't she have a great guy?  We see Diggle and Lyla have a great relationship why can't Felicity. Why does she get stalker and Mayo?

I don't watch a show for romance but it is a perk if it works well.  

These EP's don't know how good they had it.  

[Ophanim]

1 hour ago, ComicFan777 said:

I think before anything can happen between O/F again is for Oliver to show that he is working to change how he reacts when the situation gets tough - Oliver generally goes lone wolf, have difficulty being honest and include her.  Episode 5.04 showed us that Oliver hasn't changed when it comes to difficult, urgent situations where he still wasn't straight with her, he kept her out of the loop and shut her out because she didn't agree with him, and continued to make decisions for other people.  I think she needs to see that change before she can let herself take any step towards him.

That's the thing: I don't believe writers want him to change. Even Diggle said to Oliver in the same episode: "don't ever change".

On another note, I don't think Oliver needs to change for others people or in this case, for Felicity, I don't think she even wants that, she just accepted him as he is and decided he isn't what she looking for in romantic partner. But to really love someone means accepting certain flaws and gains. SO maybe they both just need a better understanding of each other, and accepting each other flaws. 

And yes, I agree on reading Oliver, again, maybe it's script, maybe it's actor choice. It does look like he is annoyed with jokes the most of times, but again, I am also not a fan of what the writers are doing to Felicity. But wrong thread for that. 

Edited November 15, 2016 by Lidach

[ComicFan777]

The problem with these flaws is that if Oliver wants to have a serious healthy relationship with anybody, I think he will need to grow.

[Ophanim]

I don't know anymore what writers are doing with Oliver, maybe he isn't suppose to be in any healthy relationship. I still can't forgive him for not visiting F when she was in hospital, in my opinion very low moment for Oliver's character.

[dtissagirl]

For me the problem is that the writers room really truly 100% believes they've put to rest both the baby mama drama AND the wedding/marriage storyline LAST SEASON [if I had to guess an exact episode, even, I'd say these hacks think they wrapped up both storylines with a bow in 420].

But because I have eyes, and a functioning brain, and, you know, actual memory, I don't think they did that whatsoever in any way. So watching this season feels like I'm being gaslighted by a narrative that's lying to me about wrapping up shit they didn't.

[LeighAn]

48 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

For me the problem is that the writers room really truly 100% believes they've put to rest both the baby mama drama AND the wedding/marriage storyline LAST SEASON [if I had to guess an exact episode, even, I'd say these hacks think they wrapped up both storylines with a bow in 420].

But because I have eyes, and a functioning brain, and, you know, actual memory, I don't think they did that whatsoever in any way. So watching this season feels like I'm being gaslighted by a narrative that's lying to me about wrapping up shit they didn't.

Yeah all the writers interviews or social media responses suggest they think that it's all sorted and that Olicity are being handle maturely and adult. Marc even bragged in an interview how they were the only show that's ever had a couple so close to being engaged and broken up and still working together as friends as though it's an accomplishment to be proud of. 

I think basically the writers are writing Olicity in such a way to avoid dealing with the romantic drama that they themselves created in the first place. I think it's in part a response to the back lash they recieved last season about the romantic drama and their answer is to just completely take it off the table and time warp Oliver and Felicity to their season 1-2 selves and that'll fix everything and the fans will clamor for them again.

They plagued Oliver and Felicity with an OTT breakup storyline with needless romantic drama and because they got back lash over that rather then play the consequences of that storyline out and the rebuild they've wrapped it up in a few short scenes and off screen conversations and now in some ways avoid the fact that the relationship happened so that they don't get accused of the show being a yucky romance by the frat boy comic audience.

Until the writers decide they need Oliver and Felicity together again I don't expect them to handle their interactions any differently then the current weird limbo they have Oliver and Felicity in.

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, Carrie Ann said:

I could be okay with how they are around each other if we could see them showing any emotion w/r/t the other person when they are alone or with others. Just show them turning away and making a different face than the one they present to each other, etc. But because the show isn't giving us any kind of insight into any conflicted feelings--or really any feelings at all--I just feel at a loss for how these two people got to this point only six months after canceling their wedding or how they feel about it now. As I said after 505, it feels to me like the writers have stopped writing any kind of story between them at all (and are carrying on as though parts of their story never happened), and that's not acceptable to me as a viewer who invested in that story for four and a half seasons.

I will be watching for movement on just that.  I'm ok if they back burn it for a bit but I'll need something encouraging before too long  

4 hours ago, Lidach said:

I don't know anymore what writers are doing with Oliver, maybe he isn't suppose to be in any healthy relationship. I still can't forgive him for not visiting F when she was in hospital, in my opinion very low moment for Oliver's character.

I still have to believe he stayed with her until at least she was out of the woods.  Still messed up how long it took him to see her when she was awake and still going back in for surgeries, but not as bad as assuming he dropped her off at the hospital and took off.

[statsgirl]

I can see him staying till they assured him that she was going to survive, and then wallowing in guilt so much that he didn't visit her when he could actually talk to her.

Between that, the William lie and manipulating her around the fake wedding, remind me again why I'm supposed to want this couple together?

[Hiveminder]

16 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I can see him staying till they assured him that she was going to survive, and then wallowing in guilt so much that he didn't visit her when he could actually talk to her.

Between that, the William lie and manipulating her around the fake wedding, remind me again why I'm supposed to want this couple together?

I think sometimes I want Olicity to be together because of what they could and should be instead of for what the writers made them be. Someone upread mentioned that maybe fanfic has impacted their view of these characters, and I wonder that too. The writers have these characters who just seem to fit together portrayed by actors with amazing chemistry, and instead of creating a strong, interesting, unique relationship they give us needless drama and plot driven nonsense. And then they tell us it's epic. 

[Ophanim]

4 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

I think sometimes I want Olicity to be together because of what they could and should be instead of for what the writers made them be. Someone upread mentioned that maybe fanfic has impacted their view of these characters, and I wonder that too. The writers have these characters who just seem to fit together portrayed by actors with amazing chemistry, and instead of creating a strong, interesting, unique relationship they give us needless drama and plot driven nonsense. And then they tell us it's epic. 

Shame, really, because I think writers aren't aware of treasure they're having in Olicity and losing it as we speak, because of very bad writing and decisions. For the second, I thought Oliver&Felicity could be up there with the epic pair of all pairs John/Aeryn (Farscape). Now, I don't think so. Shame... :(  what could have been...

 

p.s. still hoping, but, hope is fading, with each new episode, and with every new EPs interview.

[Mellowyellow]

The EP interviews constantly killing it don't help. 

Did they give such depressing interviews in season 3? I'm trying to see if there is hope because they aren't even teasing anymore imo.

[Ophanim]

I legit think they're trying new pairings, to see what'll stick. 

[way2interested]

5 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Did they give such depressing interviews in season 3? I'm trying to see if there is hope because they aren't even teasing anymore imo.

IMO, yes because they were trying to sell the Ray spinoff and upcoming *twists* over anything Oliver/Felicity related. The only pleasure I remember really getting is SA's disgruntled looks regarding the "love triangle."

[Mellowyellow]

I'm so sad when I see Ray *sniffles*

He was a good LI imo. They were so cute together especially when they went to visit Barry. So much better than this wet dish rag who looks like he doesn't want to kiss Felicity for some reason! 

[Hiveminder]

29 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I'm so sad when I see Ray *sniffles*

He was a good LI imo. They were so cute together especially when they went to visit Barry. So much better than this wet dish rag who looks like he doesn't want to kiss Felicity for some reason! 

He was kinda creepy sometimes, but at least he had good hair.