Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[AyChihuahua]

So in Mericle's new interview, there was a lot of debate whether Felicity and Ray would try to restart something on his return in 4.06.

 

I don't even know how to respond to that.  I just, wow.

 

"The most surprising thing for us was that we don't feel like there is any residual tension, romantically, between the two of them. We debated a lot in the writers' room if Felicity and Ray would try and rekindle their romance and that just didn't feel natural. After everything they have both been through, not to mention that she's absolutely 100 percent in love with Oliver, they are in a really good place in their friendship and there are no hard feelings between them."

 

Maybe she meant in 3.21?  Also super-fricking-gross, but at least not cheating?

Edited November 5, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[tennisgurl]

*puts hands over ears* lalalalalal cant hear you, lalalalal

Edited November 5, 2015 by tennisgurl

[Chaser]

Yeah. That sounds fake to me.

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah. That sounds fake to me.

The interview is real.  Do you mean she's bullshitting?

 

I don't really like her anymore.  She's not as bad as Guggie, but she's ship-baiting, etc., and I'm irritated by her now.

[apinknightmare]

Felicity couldn't even tell Ray she loved him, because she loved Oliver. She left with Oliver on a summer of love. Why would anyone even bring rekindling up? They made sure whatever they had was dead in S3. Interviews always make me worry about these people. 

[Chaser]

I mean it sounds like total BS. It makes no sense given EVERTHING else that has been said and what has been shown.

[AyChihuahua]

I mean it sounds like total BS. It makes no sense given EVERTHING else that has been said and what has been shown.

I agree that it's BS in the sense that it's idiotic, but WM really did say it.

[Chaser]

Lol I know she said it. But I don't believe it's true. I don't think that was a discussion at all in the writers room given everything they have said, everything that happened in S3 and everything that has happened in S4.

[hogwash]

Why did I read that? Why would there need to be a debate about that? This explains so much about S03... 

[AyChihuahua]

Lol I know she said it. But I don't believe it's true. I don't think that was a discussion at all in the writers room given everything they have said, everything that happened in S3 and everything that has happened in S4.

I didn't want you to think I was making stuff up.  My anonymous Internet previously.tv poster self has a rep to maintain, you know.

[lemotomato]

Are you kidding me? When the hell would they have even have time to "rekindle their romance" between 406 and 408 when they hopefully kick all the LoT characters off to their own show??

[apinknightmare]

This makes me think that maybe they *don't* know who's in that grave. Because people who had these thoughts are the kind of people who would kill someone off with absolutely no plan.

[lemotomato]

They have no plan, but promise it'll be "organic" and "earned". 

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Guest]

So in Mericle's new interview, there was a lot of debate whether Felicity and Ray would try to restart something on his return in 4.06.

 

I don't even know how to respond to that.  I just, wow.

 

"The most surprising thing for us was that we don't feel like there is any residual tension, romantically, between the two of them. We debated a lot in the writers' room if Felicity and Ray would try and rekindle their romance and that just didn't feel natural. After everything they have both been through, not to mention that she's absolutely 100 percent in love with Oliver, they are in a really good place in their friendship and there are no hard feelings between them."

 

Maybe she meant in 3.21?  Also super-fricking-gross, but at least not cheating?

 

That whole quote makes no sense to me. How could they even debate about F/R rekindling their romance when they also say that Felicity is 100% in love with Oliver. What even? 

 

Thank god that's not happening. Just wow.

[kes0704]

You don't need to be a genius to figure out that narratively speaking it wouldn't feel natural for Felicity to rekindle a romance with Ray. Why would Felicity suddenly decide that Oliver is not the one for her when you've just spent time establishing that they are "in love" with each other. Not to mention the fact that Creepy Ray is headed to LoT so what would be the point of pursuing that storyline?

The EPs really don't appear to have a good grasp on their own characters which is why they have so many OOC moments.

[Chaser]

I'm chalking it up to WM's growing pains.

 

It's a bit of a jumble. Teasing Ray and Felicity, but saying Felicity is 100% in love with Oliver, talking about Oliver and Felicity facing their first real challenge, but also clarifying that Ray and Felicity aren't like that...conflicting messages.

[calliope1975]

This makes me think that maybe they *don't* know who's in that grave. Because people who had these thoughts are the kind of people who would kill someone off with absolutely no plan.

 

It's disconcerting because it feels like they don't watch their own show. If they think there is any logical narrative reason for Felicity to give Ray any type of cursory romantic look with where she is right now, they are drunk. I choose to believe this was the conversation that actually happened: "Hey, maybe when Ray is unshrinked, he and Felicity think about dating again." "No, that's a dumb idea." "Yeah, you're right, it's dumb." /scene

[AyChihuahua]

That whole quote makes no sense to me. How could they even debate about F/R rekindling their romance when they also say that Felicity is 100% in love with Oliver. What even? 

 

Thank god that's not happening. Just wow.

I'd guess they would have made her not 100% in love with Oliver.  I'm pretty sure if they had done that, I would have quit the show for good.  I don't know if any of you have noticed this, but I FUCKING HATE Ray [the Cane Toad].  Plus, I'm not here for cheating.  

 

 

"Hey, maybe when Ray is unshrinked, he and Felicity think about dating again." "No, that's a dumb idea." "Yeah, you're right, it's dumb." /scene

Felicity's actively, and it sure seems exclusively, in a relationship with Oliver.  I just can't emphasize enough both how grotesque the idea is and how no sense at all it makes.  If I knew which writer came up with that even as a very fleeting thought, I'd never watch his/her episodes, ever.

Edited November 5, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[dtissagirl]

"We debated a lot in the writers room" = one writer got stuck with an idea, or was playing devil's advocate, and every one else had to talk him/her out of the crazy ledge. It happens all the time.

[Guest]

I'd guess they would have made her not 100% in love with Oliver.  I'm pretty sure if they had done that, I would have quit the show for good.  I don't know if any of you have noticed this, but I FUCKING HATE Ray [the Cane Toad].  Plus, I'm not here for cheating.  

 

YOU HATE RAY?! I think you've played that really close to your chest, tbh. LMAO.

 

I agree though. That would have ruined everything for me. One of the reasons I hate Laurel and Oliver together is because of all the cheating. So that would have tainted things completely.

[Morrigan2575]

"We debated a lot in the writers room" = one writer got stuck with an idea, or was playing devil's advocate, and every one else had to talk him/her out of the crazy ledge. It happens all the time.

Yep. Or the debate was, so do we want to bring up the love triangle again? Maybe have some Olicity angst because that's always fun!

From what I've read there's always talk/debates, ideas getting tossed around in the writers room.

[apinknightmare]

Well, there wouldn't necessarily have been cheating. 

 

Oliver and Felicity could've BEEN ON A BREAK.

[Chaser]

Well, there wouldn't necessarily have been cheating. 

 

Oliver and Felicity could've BEEN ON A BREAK.

How Dare You?!

[AyChihuahua]

YOU HATE RAY?! I think you've played that really close to your chest, tbh. LMAO.

 

I agree though. That would have ruined everything for me. One of the reasons I hate Laurel and Oliver together is because of all the cheating. So that would have tainted things completely.

I do try to keep my opinions to myself.  

[Guest]

It's interesting that the interview discussing Raylicity again comes out now. TROLLS. THERE'S A TROLL IN THE DUNGEON! 

 

Quit playing, Wendy. I see you.

[dtissagirl]

I'm not even seeing the trolling. They're bringing Palmer back, I can totally see it, way back when they were mapping out the season, a long ass discussion about whether or not they would explore a triangle, or how would O/F be shaped. They decided to go with strong stable O/F, so Palmer isn't gonna affect that part of the story. The discussion still happened, because that's how writers room work.

Edited November 5, 2015 by dtissagirl

[BkWurm1]

So in Mericle's new interview, there was a lot of debate whether Felicity and Ray would try to restart something on his return in 4.06.

 

I don't even know how to respond to that.  I just, wow.

 

"The most surprising thing for us was that we don't feel like there is any residual tension, romantically, between the two of them. We debated a lot in the writers' room if Felicity and Ray would try and rekindle their romance and that just didn't feel natural. After everything they have both been through, not to mention that she's absolutely 100 percent in love with Oliver, they are in a really good place in their friendship and there are no hard feelings between them."

 

Maybe she meant in 3.21?  Also super-fricking-gross, but at least not cheating?

Perhaps they were considering if RAY might make any kind of attempts to redkindle things?  I could ALMOST buy that Ray would cross over a line but Felicity would shut it down hard right away. 

[JenMD]

YOU HATE RAY?! I think you've played that really close to your chest, tbh. LMAO.

 

 

Well, there wouldn't necessarily have been cheating. 

 

Oliver and Felicity could've BEEN ON A BREAK.

 

 

I do try to keep my opinions to myself.  

 

 

It's interesting that the interview discussing Raylicity again comes out now. TROLLS. THERE'S A TROLL IN THE DUNGEON! 

 

 

Heh, y'all are killing me right now. 

[kismet]

That whole quote makes no sense to me. How could they even debate about F/R rekindling their romance when they also say that Felicity is 100% in love with Oliver. What even? 

 

Thank god that's not happening. Just wow.

They wrote an entire season where FS pursued and had a romantic relationship with deep feelings for RP while being in love with OQ. Without any snark, I can totally see why the same group of writers in due diligence would consider the possibility of rekindling said romance in s4.

[tarotx]

Writers map out a season before deciding which direction to go. Someone wanting or wondering if the Triangle would still have a presence for TV angst seems a no brainer to me. We are talking about the CW. Them deciding it was the wrong direction was the right path.

[lemotomato]

But why did she even have to mention that they tossed the idea around if it's not going to happen? Coming on the heels of an episode where they were throwing meaty L/O bones, it seems pretty ship bait-y. 

[BkWurm1]

But why did she even have to mention that they tossed the idea around if it's not going to happen? Coming on the heels of an episode where they were throwing meaty L/O bones, it seems pretty ship bait-y. 

I don't know.  I think it would be worse if they said, hmm, I'd never thought about that...  This way, they've said, nope, we discussed it and nope, it doesn't make sense for any of them.  Nope. 

[tarotx]

The most surprising thing for us was that we don't feel like there is any residual tension, romantically, between the two of them. We debated a lot in the writers' room if Felicity and Ray would try and rekindle their romance and that just didn't feel natural. After everything they have both been through, not to mention that she's absolutely 100 percent in love with Oliver, they are in a really good place in their friendship and there are no hard feelings between them

 

I don't know, to me that and what happened with Laurel and Oliver on screen in 4.5 is a similar friendzone. Olicity 100% in love with each other.

Edited November 5, 2015 by tarotx

[looptab]

Yeah, it sounds like someone proposed 'Hey, now that Ray's coming back, do we want to use that to create some Olicity angst?' And then realized it wouldn't make sense. No big deal to me.

[kismet]

I’m actually glad they had a conversation about it. It proves that they actually do care about Felicity as a character. I may not have approved or enjoyed the relationship. But the writers did put a lot of effort and devoted a lot of FS’s time to her relationship with RP last season. For the writers and the characters, the relationship was real and not just casual.

 

Essentially her relationship w/ RP was the majority of her story arc in s3. Her CEO arc in s4 is a direct result of their relationship. (Not saying she's not qualified, just saying it would not have happened if she had not had closing working relationship with RP). For RP to be brought back and them not discuss a possible rekindling in the writers room would have been a bigger problem. Now if they had chosen to pursue a rekindling, then I would have been upset with them because it makes no sense. It would have been a regression, since they have gone out of their way to establish O&F as deeply in love.

Edited November 5, 2015 by kismet

[kismet]

But why did she even have to mention that they tossed the idea around if it's not going to happen? Coming on the heels of an episode where they were throwing meaty L/O bones, it seems pretty ship bait-y. 

I also do not think it is necessarily ship baiting from WM, I think it’s just unfortunate timing to come on the heels of the rekindling of O/L friendship. But that’s not on WM, that’s on the rushed timing for LoT. Either way, I think WM is trying to be honest in her interviews. But I think she is still learning the ropes of how to answer questions.

[EmeraldArcher]

So, I've already spewed my vitriol over O/L in 405 in the episode thread. I'm mostly talked down from my fear that there is a rekindling in the works.

But.

LL's interactions with OQ make me like him less, and that's unforgivable. Several have explained and neutralized some of 405's moments, like the "trust" thing, the hand clasp, and the hug. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DORKY WAVE?! Dorky Wave has always been an Olicity thing. Even if there is no foreshadowing of the WORST relationship in TV history, they crossed a line when he gave her the Dorky Wave. Ugh.

[kismet]

So, I've already spewed my vitriol over O/L in 405 in the episode thread. I'm mostly talked down from my fear that there is a rekindling in the works.

But.

LL's interactions with OQ make me like him less, and that's unforgivable. Several have explained and neutralized some of 405's moments, like the "trust" thing, the hand clasp, and the hug. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DORKY WAVE?! Dorky Wave has always been an Olicity thing. Even if there is no foreshadowing of the WORST relationship in TV history, they crossed a line when he gave her the Dorky Wave. Ugh.

Since Sara is alive now. Maybe LL has decided to SWF Felicity? I would not be surprised if that happens. Since I sincerely believe LL is in the middle of a mental health crisis.

I also wouldn't put it past KC to review EBRs footage and mimic/method act a lot of her mannerisms in r/t to OQ. The girl may be spouting the company line about Olicity. But have no doubt she is angling & positioning herself as the backup LI. It slipped out of her hands before and I do not see her allowing that to happen again.

Edited November 5, 2015 by kismet

[kes0704]

So if the hand holding and dorky wave have been done what's next, Laurel saving Oliver, because Felicity did so Laurel's turn to do that must be coming at some point.

If you're going to SWF somebody you may as well go all in and hopefully she learns a few new mannerisms that don't involve crossing your arms with alarming frequency.

[calliope1975]

Since I sincerely believe LL is in the middle of a mental health crisis.

 

I think if I view Laurel as in the middle of a breakdown, it might make her more sympathetic to me. Probably not, but that's my new head canon. All her actions and the reactions to her are because she's is losing her grip on reality. Head canon accepted.

 

Or, all the conversations she had with Oliver where he was subdued and congenial to her letting an assassin run around the city unchecked could have been from her delusional perspective. I bet Laurel filtered out all the anger at her. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by calliope1975

[NumberCruncher]

I don't know, to me that and what happened with Laurel and Oliver on screen in 4.5 is a similar friendzone. Olicity 100% in love with each other.

Yeah, I guess I didn't really notice all these supposed shippy O/L moments in the episode. Quite frankly, I didn't think either Stephen or Katie played them that way either.

[AyChihuahua]

I’m actually glad they had a conversation about it. It proves that they actually do care about Felicity as a character. I may not have approved or enjoyed the relationship. But the writers did put a lot of effort and devoted a lot of FS’s time to her relationship with RP last season. For the writers and the characters, the relationship was real and not just casual.

 

Essentially her relationship w/ RP was the majority of her story arc in s3. Her CEO arc in s4 is a direct result of their relationship. (Not saying she's not qualified, just saying it would not have happened if she had not had closing working relationship with RP). For RP to be brought back and them not discuss a possible rekindling in the writers room would have been a bigger problem. Now if they had chosen to pursue a rekindling, then I would have been upset with them because it makes no sense. It would have been a regression, since they have gone out of their way to establish O&F as deeply in love.

She's actively in an exclusive relationship with Oliver, and has been since the end of 3.23.  Any rekindling would be cheating, and would show she's not that into Oliver.  Plus, RP is going to be in like two episodes.  I mean, it's like you're discussing dinner with your spouse, you don't actually have to state that you're not going to bake your dog's poop and eat it for dinner, because it's just understood.  You certainly don't need to have a major debate about whether you should or should not eat baked dog poop for dinner.  The same goes for Ray the Cane Toad and Felicity rekindling ANYTHING romantic when she's in the middle of a relationship with another man.

Edited November 5, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[looptab]

 you don't actually have to state that you're not going to bake your dog's poop and eat it for dinner, because it's just understood.  You certainly don't need to have a major debate about whether you should or should not eat baked dog poop for dinner.  

I'm crying. LMAO.

[Cerulean Blue]

I don't know, I think that if they were discussing the Ray/Felicity possible rekindling before they began writing season 4, it makes sense. Obviously, lots of viewers (myself included) want to see Oliver/Felicity in a happy, stable relationship. And it seems that's the direction the writers are taking so far in season 4. But it's not necessarily the obvious path.

 

Even before the season began, there was talk of how the writers were going to mess up Oliver/Felicity and how they would manufacture angst, etc. I mean, there's worry about Laurel/Oliver happening again after last night's episode even though that ship has been dead for multiple seasons. Plus, the fear of Felicity in the grave happened in the very first episode.

Not to mention all of the recent spoilers that hint towards Felicity being seriously injured and/or kidnapped by Darhk.

 Wrecking the happiness bubble of Oliver/Felicity seems to be pretty much a given at this point.

 

So I don't find the idea of the writers talking about the possibility of Felicity/Ray particularly unbelievable or offensive. Regardless of how successful the relationship was or whether or not people like Ray, they were a major storyline of season 3 and Ray was Felicity's first serious canon romance. Plus, the end of their relationship was very abrupt and possibly traumatic for both parties. It was obviously pretty terrible for Ray. And even though Felicity didn't love Ray, she probably felt guilty that he loved her and she broke up with him and then immediately moved on--and moved in!--with Oliver. So it seems completely normal that the writers might bounce around the idea of something happening between Ray and Felicity as a way to create conflict in season 4.

 

I'm 100% happy they chose not to pursue that path, but I'm glad it's something they've thought about and discussed. And then discarded. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by Cerulean Blue

[TwistedandBored]

I hope the writers learn from their previous mistakes and continue writing Olicity free of unnecessary drama/angst. 

[AyChihuahua]

Sure something's going to disrupt O/F, but there's a big difference between one of them having feelings for someone else and/or cheating, and someone coming in and kidnapping or hurting one of them.  Plus, again, they always knew RP is back for like five minutes.  What's to discuss?  

[Cerulean Blue]

Sure something's going to disrupt O/F, but there's a big difference between one of them having feelings for someone else and/or cheating, and someone coming in and kidnapping or hurting one of them.  Plus, again, they always knew RP is back for like five minutes.  What's to discuss?  

But did they always know RP was back for like five minutes? I mean, we know that now since we're moving into 4x06 and he should be gone by 4x08, but before the season started they might have considered bringing him back sooner. It's tough to look at it in hindsight since we can be like, "Well, by 6 episodes in...", but when they were talking it about it, they were zero episodes in, so it might have made more sense. 

[lemotomato]

I don't see how it would make any sense for them to even hint at Raylicity after Felicity's been living with Oliver for 5 months. Doesn't matter if they brought Ray back as early as 4x02. Unless, of course, they were going to re-do the beginning of season 3 again and yank the rug out from under Olicity fans after only one or two episodes of happiness.

[Cerulean Blue]

I guess I'm thinking that they were talking about all of this--5 months of Olicity bliss, the possibility of revisiting Ray/Felicity, every other possible season 4 storyline--at the same time. So there was nothing that had actually happened beyond the very end of season 3 where Oliver and Felicity drive off into the sunset and Ray blows up. Maybe they were tossing around other plans for Oliver and Felicity other than a road trip followed by a trip around the world followed by a life of domestic semi-bliss in the suburbs before they decided that was the direction they were going to take it. 

 

I could be totally off and they were talking about Ray/Felicity hooking up again in the writers room last week, but my sense was that it was a pre-season 4 discussion. Which makes sense to me. Should they follow-up with one of the central romantic relationships of season 3? (Answer: no, because it was the worst). But it still makes sense that they wanted to consider it. 

 

[edited because I forgot a word...]

Edited November 6, 2015 by Cerulean Blue

[AyChihuahua]

I don't see how it would make any sense for them to even hint at Raylicity after Felicity's been living with Oliver for 5 months. Doesn't matter if they brought Ray back as early as 4x02. Unless, of course, they were going to re-do the beginning of season 3 again and yank the rug out from under Olicity fans after only one or two episodes of happiness.

But in a much, much worse way.  Not an explosion and Oliver freaking out about it, but actually one of them having romantic feelings for another person while they're together.  That would undermine everything, everything that people love about O/F.  I know that Felicity had feelings for Oliver while she was with the Cane Toad, which isn't great, but she didn't act on them so she was basically morally fine.  But her thing with the Cane Toad was never supposed to be OTL with swoopy music and meant-to-bes, etc.  How in the world could they do One True Love in which one of the two is like "Hey Oliver, I like you and all, but I never really got my full romance on with the Cane Toad, and I am thinking about exploring that again.  Thoughts?"  I mean, that's fine IRL, but it's not cinematic true love.  Romeo didn't tell Juliet "Hey girl, I dig you, but I think we should keep this kind of casual."  Lloyd Dobler wasn't all "Yeah girl, you're cute and all, but I want to see what else is out there."    

 

To be clear, I would feel this way regardless of who the other person was.  It's not Cane Toad-specific.  If either of them develop any level of romantic feelings for anyone else while they're together, or geez even anytime soon after they break up if they do, it's no longer an epic love story.  

I guess I'm thinking that they were talking about all of this--5 months of Olicity bliss, the possibility of revisiting Ray/Felicity, every other possible season 4 storyline--at the same time.

But we knew at the end of 3.23 they were going off together.  Where they were going didn't matter.  They were going to be together in an exclusive relationship, so if she'd rekindled with Ray either they would have had to have broken up in that five-month period or she would be a cheater.  I guess they could have broken up over the hiatus, pull an S2 Veronica Mars (a move that was generally loathed), but then what was the point of all the O/F S3 angst?  

 

It's still baked dog poop for dinner.

 

I think part of my problem is that Mericle didn't say it was mentioned and quickly shot down, she said there was a big debate about it.  So they had a big debate about breaking up the main couple of making one or them a cheater for a character they 100% knew was going off to a spinoff?  How many sentences are needed to say that's a terribly stupid idea?  Why would that be a big debate?

Edited November 6, 2015 by AyChihuahua