Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[NumberCruncher]

Oh, I agree, sometimes they muddle Thea's role in the narrative with regards to Oliver. And it's interesting too, that he's willing to do anything for her, but it's not ever because she's his equal -- it's because he needs to protect her from the entire universe. Because a lot of times Thea fits the narrative role of being Oliver's child. Especially in S3, with the lack of Moira as a clear parental figure, and Merlyn being THE VERY OPPOSITE of a parental figure.

I'm so glad you pointed this out because this has been something that has bugged me for awhile. Oliver being so overly protective of Thea might have made sense back when she was on the edge of adulthood but having the show now present her as a capable adult who ran a nightclub on her own, traveled the world "alone", and engaged in multiple adult relationships, I find the father figure role Oliver plays in her life more than a bit creepy. As her brother I completely understood him not wanting her under Merlyn's influence, but the lengths at which Oliver went to protect her in S3 were borderline ridiculous, IMO.

[apinknightmare]

The way Oliver treated Thea makes sense to me - Thea's the only member of his family who's still alive, and she was associating with a dangerous, life-threatening person. I'm not saying it was right, but I completely understand it.

Edited August 7, 2015 by apinknightmare

[tangerine95]

I agree that the way they set up the show was to have the most important person in Oliver's life be the woman he's in love with.They just changed the woman. I never understood how people could expect him to care more about or be closer to Diggle. Those are very different relationships that affect him in different ways. It's clear especially now that Oliver and Felicity are a couple and will probably be living together that they will be closer to each other then to anyone else. It's the same for Diggle and Lyla. 

 

I have noticed that the show sometimes does treat Thea as Oliver's child. More so in season 3 then before. I think a lot of the he will do anything for her thing was used as an excuse to have Oliver do all kinds of stupid crap for plot reasons and keep Malcolm relevant. Hopefully in season 4 when the constant danger from the LoA is gone he will treat Thea more as an equal and an adult who can make her own decisions. 

 

[dtissagirl]

I don't like that Oliver's idea of protecting people is making decisions FOR them, but I do understand why he's obsessed with Thea being safe.

 

It does put Thea -- the character -- in a very weird position within the narrative. Oliver will do anything for her, she's not his equal in the story. The narrative sees Thea as the most precious thing in this story, but she doesn't inspire Oliver to be a hero, nor she's the one responsible for saving his soul.

 

In S3 in particular, Thea's narrative role was to be threatened so that Oliver could react to it. Saving Thea was the most important thing for Oliver, and he went to crazy lengths to do so, repeatedly. And now that I think about it: Thea was the MacGuffin of season three.

[NumberCruncher]

In S3 in particular, Thea's narrative role was to be threatened so that Oliver could react to it. Saving Thea was the most important thing for Oliver, and he went to crazy lengths to do so, repeatedly. And now that I think about it: Thea was the MacGuffin of season three.

That was the point I was trying to make, but you did it much better than I. Again, I totally get why he's protective of Thea being the only family he has left, but the downright craziness that ensued to protect her was what didn't make sense to me if we're to believe that she is a capable adult with agency. I could see a parent acting the way Oliver did, but not a sibling. As always though, YMMV.

Edited August 7, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[statsgirl]

The way Oliver treated Thea makes sense to me - Thea's the only member of his family who's still alive, and she was associating with a dangerous, life-threatening person. I'm not saying it was right, but I completely understand it.

The problem was that he was going to ridiculous lengths to keep this dangerous life-threatening person alive and in her life, even after she decided to have nothing to do with him and turned him over to the LoA.

 

The EPs love for Barrowman messed up a lot of the logic for season 3.

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, I agree. Merlyn weakens Thea as a character from outside of the story -- for him to continue to exist in this story, the writing made Thea to be either a victim, or a damsel, for Oliver to protect and/or save. They turned it around somewhat in the last couple of episodes, but even then they couldn't resist having Roy telling her what to do in his last episode.

[apinknightmare]

The problem was that he was going to ridiculous lengths to keep this dangerous life-threatening person alive and in her life, even after she decided to have nothing to do with him and turned him over to the LoA.

The EPs love for Barrowman messed up a lot of the logic for season 3.

Point.

[NumberCruncher]

The problem was that he was going to ridiculous lengths to keep this dangerous life-threatening person alive and in her life, even after she decided to have nothing to do with him and turned him over to the LoA.

 

The EPs love for Barrowman messed up a lot of the logic for season 3.

Especially since the writers made one of Oliver's motivations for keeping Malcolm alive that "He's Thea's father!" and that somehow killing him would be too emotionally scarring to her. Who gives a shit? He's a mass murderer who killed 500+ people and then brainwashed Thea into doing his killing for him. Thea's an adult, not a 10-year old in need of her daddy. The stupid, it BURNS.

[hogwash]

Especially since the writers made one of Oliver's motivations for keeping Malcolm alive that "He's Thea's father!" and that somehow killing him would be too emotionally scarring to her. Who gives a shit? He's a mass murderer who killed 500+ people and then brainwashed Thea into doing his killing for him. Thea's an adult, not a 10-year old in need of her daddy. The stupid, it BURNS.

 

This was so incredibly true. It was bad all around. The mid-season finale(?) had that freaking idiotic conversation where Thea's like "don't make me choose between my brother and my father!" I mean, if the utter stupidity of drugged assassin Thea killing LOA trained Sara Lance wasn't enough to make me quit... THEA QUEEN uttering those words. The same Thea Queen who spent two seasons up Moira Queen's ass for minor/imagined transgressions (up until the Undertaking reveal). The Thea Queen who was on Robert Queen's case in S02 for having the nerve to love/raise her despite knowing she wasn't his biological child. The dude had been dead for 5+ years at that point! But when it comes to Merlyn, Thea is a poster child for unconditional filial love and support. 

 

They had Oliver pick up the slack after Thea regained some brain function with some BS about saving her soul. But of course that didn't extend to making any effort to keep her away from mass-murderer/terrorist bio-father who drugged and turned her into assassin.  

 

Laurel Lance, Ray Palmer, AND Malcolm Merlyn. S03 didn't stand a chance.

[AyChihuahua]

Especially since the writers made one of Oliver's motivations for keeping Malcolm alive that "He's Thea's father!" and that somehow killing him would be too emotionally scarring to her. Who gives a shit? He's a mass murderer who killed 500+ people and then brainwashed Thea into doing his killing for him. Thea's an adult, not a 10-year old in need of her daddy. The stupid, it BURNS.

I swear to God, this times 12 billion. Absolutely, WHO GIVES A SHIT. The fact that Oliver actually officially put Merlyn under his protection from punishment for killing all those people (plus the scientists at Unidac, plus God knows what other innocent people), including people both Oliver and Thea actually love, is one of the many reasons I am close to hating Oliver now, and definitely think he's too dumb to live. And this was after just TAKING MERLYN'S WORD FOR IT that he didn't kill Sara. I mean seriously Oliver, WTF?

[wingster55]

I think in the world of tv the person the protagonist is in love with doesn't have to be the most important relationship in terms of the show. Like on Parks, Leslie's #1 was Ben..but the more important relationship to the show was Leslie/Ron. On Smallville Clark had his LI be his #1...but Clark/Lex was the real OTP of that show.On Arrow in s1 Oliver loved Laurel most...but THE relationship was him and Diggle. In s3 he loved Felicity most...but it was his realtionship with Thea that drove most of the story. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I think it depends on what kind of story the show is telling. Parks is a very different show from Arrow, with very different narrative goals. I can't speak about Smallville because I only watched the first season. Arrow is the classic hero's journey and that almost always has the love interest as the most important relationship. Yes, Oliver's relationship with Thea drove the story, the plot, but it was his relationship with Felicity that drove the change in him as a character, that drove his development. Felicity is the one getting Oliver from Point A to Point B in terms of the show's narrative goals — from the Hood to Arrow to Green Arrow. She's the one who influences him the most, making her the most important relationship for him.

Edited August 8, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I agree. Felicity, thus far, is the most important relationship for Oliver, because it's his relationship with her (whether platonic or romantic) that's driven his change. She tells him to find another way, he does. She tells him to keep fighting, he does. She tells him that he's waiting around to die in the cave and that she wants more out of life than that, he tells Diggle he doesn't want to do that. He tells Felicity he can't beat Ra's, she tells him he's a different guy now, and that guy can. She keeps him going when he wants to give up, like his own personal frickin' Tony Robbins.  

[wingster55]

In s1 Diggle was that guy. Telling him when to not murder all the time, not to focus on the list, when to pay attention to Thea's issues instead of targeting the Count only. 

And Tommy is the guy who made Oliver stop killing for good.

 

Both have seemingly been forgotten and now it's all on Felicity. 

[Guest]

Good Lord. No one is saying that Felicity is the only reason. She's a big reason for Oliver's change but no one is discounting Diggle or Tommy's influence. But there's no denying that there has always been something about Felicity that Oliver responds and listens to. Doesn't lessen the others though. 

[lemotomato]

In s1 Diggle was that guy. Telling him when to not murder all the time, not to focus on the list, when to pay attention to Thea's issues instead of targeting the Count only. 

And Tommy is the guy who made Oliver stop killing for good.

 

Both have seemingly been forgotten and now it's all on Felicity. 

Tommy is dead, and Diggle is married with a wife and kid who are now his priorities. Relationships change and evolve. Shows change and evolve. I don't understand why you seem to think moving on to new relationships and dynamics means that the old ones are forgotten. They mention/bring back Tommy every season, for crying out loud.

[wingster55]

The show's narrative strongly suggests it. 

[lemotomato]

When did the show's narrative suggest it? Are you judging just based on season 4 rumors? Diggle was still Oliver's primary person to talk to in season 3. Tommy showed up in a flashback and Oliver saw him. I genuinely don't understand where you say they're being forgotten.

[dtissagirl]

I don't get this argument about the relationships from three years ago either. Every relationship Oliver had in season one evolved into a different kind of relationship as the show went on, because this is a serialized hero's journey. Diggle started out as Oliver's bodyguard, and they now consider each other brothers. Oliver was best man at Dig's wedding, for crying out loud. Every one from Oliver's life from back then -- who's still alive -- has a different relationship with him now.

 

Also, I didn't generalize that all TV shows should prioritize romantic relationships. I said that ARROW specifically set up Oliver's most important relationship to be with the woman he's in love with. I didn't make that happen, fandom didn't make that happen -- the show did that from the pilot episode by establishing that the ~love of the One woman~ would be the key to Oliver's salvation. And the show continued to do so even after they switched the One woman from Laurel to Felicity. That doesn't mean Diggle is not super important to Oliver and to the story, or that Thea isn't either. It means that the narrative has always prioritized romantic love. And not just for Oliver, by the way. For Diggle and Thea too.

 

Thea is a great example, actually, because the person who inspires change in her [meaning character development] has never been Oliver. It's been Roy time and time again.

Edited August 8, 2015 by dtissagirl

[kismet]

I don't think the story narrative or Oliver have forgotten how important all of his relationships have been. But via story evolution and consolidation of plot, Felicity has become one if not the most important touchstone relationship for OQ. Because like others said, at the end of the day its a Hero's journey & that's how you write a Hero's journey.

 

Tommy - The show killed Tommy for plot purposes to advance both OQ & LL's storylines. So he can only come back in flashbacks, memories or visions which makes him an inconvenient source of inspiration on a show like Arrow where you want to show stuff. I loved in s2 when Tommy was the one in 3 ghosts that told OQ he was a HERO and helped him wake up and fight for Roy. But that can't happen every episode, otherwise we would all begin to question OQ's sanity if he kept on seeing his dead friend, talking to him and then using those moments as his inspiration. I love that they can bring back Tommy in memories or FB. Heck, I would love to have Tommy back in present day. But that's not happening, so even if I want things to be different, at the end of the day the inspiration that Tommy can provide is very much pigeonhold.

 

Diggle - He evolved from random bodyguard to close confidante to Brother. The evolution was beautiful and the bromance strong (until OQ decided to use/harm/risk it for plot purposes). But Diggle has his own family now, he has a wife & a daughter, a life outside of OQ & the mission. Its not that his relationship is no longer important or deep as it once was, but he has other priorities. In s2, it was both Dig & FS that rescued OQ from himself and provided inspiration to help further the growth of OQ's character. In s3, the way in which Dig inspired OQ was different, it was less telling and more showing. Heck, he even joined him on a suicide mission to NP because you don't abandon your brother. But he had to talk it over with Lyla first, because he had other commitments - it showed that OQ was very important to Dig, but so was Dig's family. I don't know what will happen in s4 between Dig & OQ, but I do know that at the end of the day they both deeply care about each other. Dig's comments about OQ deserving happiness proved that. I just don't think Dig or OQ see themselves as the most important person in each others' lives. And that is perfectly fine & acceptable for all the reasons others have listed above, as well as just the reality that you can care deeply about one person but have other priorities.

 

Thea - Very important relationship. Everything OQ did in s3 was to protect Thea out of pure love for his sister. But Thea did not always have the same relationship with her brother. She left SC in s2 finale. Both kept big secrets from each other for years. Both actively lied to protect the other. And both sought advice and inspiration from other people (Thea=MM/RH & OQ=Dig&FS). Its not that their relationship is not important and integral into how they operate in & around each other. It certainly drove the storyline & plot. But as the end of the day, there was little in show or out of show evidence to indicate that OQ & TQ turn to each other for advice and direction. I have no doubt that they love each other deeply and would do anything for each other. They are family and those bonds run deep. But they are not each others' "person".

 

Felicity - She has always been a very special influence on OQ whether platonically or romantically, she has always been one of the major characters to get OQ to evolve and change for the better. To bring him from vigilante to hero. She has helped to heal and piece back together some of the shattered pieces from his time away. Their trust and feelings for each other grew from acquaintances (everytime he showed up with Arrow favor) to friends (hospital scene when OQ intros her as such to his family after Walter's rescue) to partners (OQ says it to FS after she returns from CC & BA) to lovers (320) to putting it all together as unified team within a team in s4. Its all there in the scripts, interviews, articles & most importantly the acting. Its just the nature of the show & a hero's journey that a romantic love is going to get top billing in the Hero's mind & heart. At the end of the day, FS gets a lot of those speeches and moments because OQ wants her to have those moments & speeches. He goes to her or lingers on/around her, because he knows that being around her and hearing what she has to say will help him. They are each others' priorities because they have made each other their priorities through time, words & actions.

 

Lastly, I think this is the whole problem with trying to rank relationships. Every major relationship a person maintains is important to that person for a myriad of reasons. There are some that may be perceived as more important than others, but they are all important. Each are part of the bigger pieces that help make a person who they are or inspire what they do. Its like asking people to rank who they love more in a family, its generally not something people should do. Ranking of relationships, is just not something that really makes a whole lot of sense. Classifying importance or putting people into groups/tiers - sure that makes sense. To semi-quote The Mindy Project when asked about how she could have so many best friends, Mindy said that a best friend is not just a person but rather "a TIER".

 

I think that encompasses important relationships in a better way than a ranking. Felicity, Tommy, Diggle and Thea are all in Oliver's "Important Person Tier". He turns to them at different times for different reasons. He would do anything for these people because he loves them. He would die for them or do anything to protect them. He would even risk hurting them emotionally, if it meant keeping them safe from external forces like he did in 321/22. They are all vital to who OQ is, what he does and how he accomplishes it.

Edited August 8, 2015 by kismet

[dtissagirl]

I think there's a difference between the people who are important to Oliver, and the people who are important to Oliver's story. Those are two separate things. The people Oliver loves and prioritizes aren't necessarily the characters being used to help Oliver as a character to achieve development.

 

Tommy is a good example. Tommy himself got a lot of character development by learning Oliver's secret and being 100% against vigilantism. It made him reevaluate his relationship with Laurel, it made him go to work for his father. It ultimately set up his heroic sacrifice. Oliver didn't get much character development from Tommy figuring it out, really. He got a shit ton of character development AFTER Tommy died, and Oliver decided that he needed to honor him and stop killing.

 

Thea in season three is another good example: she gives Oliver plot on top of plot by being victimized by Merlyn, by being damseled by Ra's. Thea gave Oliver story beat on top of story beat... but there's not that much character development that comes to either Oliver or Thea from their interactions alone, and from how they affect each other's plots. Merlyn and Roy gave Thea a whole lot more character development than Oliver. Felicity gave Oliver a crap ton more character development than Thea.

 

And that doesn't make Thea less important to Oliver in anyway, but yes, it makes her less important than Felicity [and Diggle too] to the story itself.

Edited August 8, 2015 by dtissagirl

[wonderwall]

So apparently this girl on twitter talked to Ronda Rousey about Arrow at her book signing today and apparently she loves Felicity and Oliver/Felicity's relationship :)

 

X

Edited August 8, 2015 by wonderwall

[wingster55]

...how would that even come up?

[wonderwall]

...how would that even come up?

You should ask her that :p I wouldn't really know. But hey, I sometimes talk about Arrow with my boss so *shrugs*. It happens. 

[wingster55]

I mean it just seems like an odd conversation piece to an athlete. Regardless of show or couple. 

[Chaser]

So apparently this girl on twitter talked to Ronda Rousey about Arrow at her book signing today and apparently she loves Felicity and Oliver/Felicity's relationship :)

X

That quote is from May I think. IIRC she tweeted about watching Arrow at one point and some one asked if she liked Felicity. She said yes.

[wonderwall]

That quote is from May I think. IIRC she tweeted about watching Arrow at one point and some one asked if she liked Felicity. She said yes.

ahhh, my bad, it JUST turned up on my feed so I figured it was today... And I think this conversation happened at the book signing and not twitter? At least that's what I got when I was making sure it was legit in the comment sections. 

 

I mean it just seems like an odd conversation piece to an athlete. Regardless of show or couple. 

Is that judgement I'm hearing? :p It's a free world, I agree it's sort of kind of weird if the girl didn't know Rousey watched Arrow (I mean if I met Roger Federer I wouldn't talk about Arrow... But maybe I would with Serena Williams because I know she watches the show), but it happened so... :)

Edited August 8, 2015 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

I mean it just seems like an odd conversation piece to an athlete. Regardless of show or couple. 

 

Not if it was at a book signing and that woman was trying to start some small talk. 

[Chaser]

I just meant that's probably why it was brought up. She mentioned Arrow on Twitter and the girl is a big fan so it's easy conversation.

[wonderwall]

I just meant that's probably why it was brought up. She mentioned Arrow on Twitter and the girl is a big fan so it's easy conversation.

Apologies! I didn't really understand what you meant but now I do :)

[catrox14]

I've been recently told (repeatedly) that because Sara was dead, Laurel never had the chance to be angry so when Sara was alive it was only natural that she be mad that Sara ruined her life.  They compare it to how Laurel was mad at Oliver and then got a chance to forgive him. 

 

Apparently it's also Sara's fault that Laurel had her melt down/addiction because if Sara hadn't cheated on her with Oliver then Laurel wouldn't have dated and loved Tommy so then she wouldn't have been so sad when he died. 

 

Wait? What? Oh JFC /head desk.

[wingster55]

Not if it was at a book signing and that woman was trying to start some small talk

 

I've never been to a book signing..but my understanding is that their usually is a large line and limited time with the author (esp when they're the hottest thing in sports) so small talk was usually "thank you so much"

[apinknightmare]

I've never been to a book signing..but my understanding is that their usually is a large line and limited time with the author (esp when they're the hottest thing in sports) so small talk was usually "thank you so much"

 

I've been to ones where my time has been limited, and ones where it hasn't. I'm not sure what you're getting at here though - are you implying that the poster isn't telling the truth? Judging by her Twitter count, she seems to be super into Arrow, so if she took a second of however much time she had with RR to ask her about it (since RR apparently tweeted that she watches Arrow, IDK), that doesn't seem strange to me.

[wingster55]

I'm just thrown by the randomness of it all. 

[wonderwall]

I'm just thrown by the randomness of it all. 

 

It's not really random if this girl knew that RR liked Arrow (which she probably did because apparently RR tweeted she did)  and wanted to talk to her about it because it's something they have in common and can bond over. I'm sure RR talks about her career a lot, so it must've been a nice reprieve for her. Plus it's probably not the first thing they talked about? 

 

It would be like a fan meeting Amell for the first time and talking about sports. They know Amell loves sports (who doesn't know this), and instead of talking about Arrow which Amell does 90% of the time, they talk about something different. 

 

I mean I know whenever I talk to someone, usually the first thing we bond over is television shows. Just sayin'

[Sakura12]

I don't think it's random. That's what I do when I meet celebs and they seem relieved to talk about something other than their show/job, which is what they get 95% of the time. They tend to talk to you longer because they just want to talk about something else. I did that with Caity Lotz and she told me about her entire day and the fact that she finally got a good nights sleep, that she usually doesn't get because of all the traveling she does. With EBR we talked about Orphan Black and how amazing Tatiana Maslany is. 

Edited August 9, 2015 by Sakura12

[wingster55]

I...guess that's true. 

[Morrigan2575]

Kind of OT but someone on my Facebook just shared this and it reminded me of this conversation

http://themighty.com/2015/08/when-we-asked-ronda-rousey-if-she-had1-apraxia-of-speech/

[statsgirl]

SA and James Bamford talked about Ronda Rousey on the life facebook thing so maybe they know each other outside on screen.  (Bamford thinks she could beat Floyd Mayweather in a fight).

It's interesting that she started out feeling so behind everyone else and stupid and ended up the toughest woman.  (Adler's inferiority/superiority theory in action)

 

 

In s1 Diggle was that guy. Telling him when to not murder all the time, not to focus on the list, when to pay attention to Thea's issues instead of targeting the Count only. 

And Tommy is the guy who made Oliver stop killing for good.

 

Both have seemingly been forgotten and now it's all on Felicity. 

From Felicity's first episode in the Arrow cave in The Dodger, she told Oliver she wasn't okay with his killing people and he had to be better because she was quitting.  While the early episodes had Diggle alone telling Oliver the line to walk, as soon as Felicity joined it was both Diggle and Felicity.  In 1x23, it was both of them telling Oliver he's not alone and as long as he's going to fight, they are too.

 

I think two things are getting mixed up here.  One is 'the most important relationship in Oliver's personal life', and the other is 'the most important relationship on the show'.  True, many shows combine the two but there are shows like Body of Proof where one part of the crime-solving duo is married.

 

 

Thea in season three is another good example: she gives Oliver plot on top of plot by being victimized by Merlyn, by being damseled by Ra's. Thea gave Oliver story beat on top of story beat... but there's not that much character development that comes to either Oliver or Thea from their interactions alone, and from how they affect each other's plots. Merlyn and Roy gave Thea a whole lot more character development than Oliver. Felicity gave Oliver a crap ton more character development than Thea.

His relationship with Thea did nothing for Oliver's growth in s3 because he treated her like a child and made decisions for her.  It didn't do much for Thea either -- her growth was all with Merlyn and Roy, and much of it after Oliver became Al Sahim.  And we've been complaining about how Ray, who was supposed to be an important relationship for Felicity in s3, actually regressed her growth back to before s1.

 

In terms of the show itself, I think the most important relationship is the Oliver/Diggle/Felicity one.  That's the core of Oliver's growth, and much of Felicity's too.  Diggle was already pretty much grown up, but I hope there will be growth for him in s4 as he resolves things with Oliver.

Edited August 10, 2015 by statsgirl

[statsgirl]

Laura Hurley on 

Do you think Oliver Queen was ever really in love with Laurel or was it just infatuation

 

Edited August 10, 2015 by statsgirl

[steeledwithakiss]

That is something I never bought, Oliver being in love with Laurel and even less being childhood friends. The way he treated her (and still does actually) isn't the way you treat someone you love, someone you respect, someone you were friend with.

[wingster55]

There's different forms of love, including some that aren't healthy. That's what they were. 

[kismet]

There's love and then there is "in love". I think they both loved the thought of each other & what the other could provide for them. I think they cared for each other. I think they had some type of love, perhaps puppy love. But their relationship was toxic in the past & present. The fact that he never told her about him being the Hood/Arrow by the end of s1 or even at some point during s2 to me was indicative of him not ever being "in love" with LL. She was involved in his cases, and was at risk so its not like he was trying to protect her. In fact, revealing himself to her might have helped both of them.

 

I saw what they were trying to do with s1, but it just failed LL/OQ in the long run. It made OQ seem like although she & their actual relationship was NOT a priority for him, but rather just a way for him to make amends. Like Hurley, mentioned some how repairing the relationship was linked to him getting on the track back to finding himself & his humanity. But then he started turning to Dig & FS for that type of advice, thus sidelining LL's role again. He just didn't seem to make her part of his future plans. He marginalized the role she played in his life and the margins just got bigger with each episode.

[tv echo]

Once again, it's like Laura Hurley pulled the thoughts right out of my head and then articulated them better than I could have.

Edited August 11, 2015 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

The show has established that Oliver “loving” Laurel is not what was important about their relationship; Oliver wronging Laurel is what carries the weight of their dynamic and its relevance to the show.

 

I have to say, that's pretty spot on.

[kismet]

Laura Hurley did another post on Olicity, fanservice & the potential to return to L/O.

 

Her posts are such a good blend of truth & awesome. She even uses Star Wars as an example.

 

http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/126386275526/i-loved-your-response-about-why-the-writers-canned

[fantique]

There was no hero hiding under that pile of douche.

dtissagirl, this made me howl and cry with laughter. Best description of Ollie, ever.

Laura H's, post about the fan service is great. And extra points for the Star Wars reference.

Edited August 11, 2015 by fantique

[statsgirl]

Laura Hurley is great:

To use Star Wars as a metaphor, Oliver and Felicity are the Han Solo and Princess Leia of Arrow: unexpected, unforgettable, and powered by chemistry. Oliver and Felicity’s final kiss goodbye in Nanda Parbat even recalled Han and Leia’s epic final kiss before he was frozen in carbonite in Empire Strikes Back. Oliver and Laurel are Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia: sure, they were attracted to each other once, but romance now would be super gross in hindsight. Oliver going back to Laurel after the events of the Season 3 finale would be like Luke and Leia running off together after the end of Return of the Jedi.

It’s that gross.

 

 

I hear people telling me that Oliver and Laurel loved each other but I didn't see it.  Oliver may have cared for her but he didn't care enough to clean up his act and stop cheating on her, and Laurel seemed more interested in her pathway to being Mrs. Queen than actually caring about Oliver and calling him on his shit other than in a superfical manner.  (You're so cute when you don't know what trigonometry is.)

 

This show likes its parallels and if Diggle and Lyla are Oliver/Felicity five years down the line, Moira and Robert are what Oliver and Laurel might have turned into.  Maybe they loved each other once but when we  met them, Moira was telling Robert she didn't want to know the name of his latest affair and trying to get him to do the honourable thing about the Undertaking.

 

When Oliver returned in season 1, Laurel seemed more angry about him betraying her with Sara than about what he  may have gone through, saying she wished he had spent more than 5 years in his island hell, wheich really doesn't seem like even loved turned to hate for me.  By season 3, Laurel showed zero concern when Oliver was reported dead and for Oliver, it was like he would rather Laurel be in any room other than the one he's in.

Edited August 12, 2015 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

For an entire year, former playboy Oliver Queen was celibate and monogamous to a relationship that he thought was off the table. When his life was flashing before his eyes, the last thing that he saw was his one and only kiss with Felicity. When he found out that she was dating somebody else, he surmised that he would be dying alone. He dreamed of her every night for months. She is the only non-family member to whom he has explicitly confessed his love. He literally gave up his mission to save the city to drive off into the sunset with her.

 

From the Laura Hurley post. 

 

I just love this list.  It makes me all heart eyes and dreamy sighs.