Sexuality in the SPNVerse

[ahrtee]

I don't think condoms matter to an Amazon whose sole purpose was to be impregnated.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

18 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I don't think condoms matter to an Amazon whose sole purpose was to be impregnated.

I agree.  I figured she either 'drugged' him via some psycho-tropic hormone secreted through her skin which made him so horny he forgot to use one or her own bodily fluids would have just eaten through the it anyway.  

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, SueB said:

I always thought the look on his face might have been him remembering HER putting on the condom on him with an opportunity to make a hole (via bite or nail).  Or else he was seriously distracted. 

That's how I've always though about it. I just don't believe that Dean would be that reckless, especially when he thought Ben might be his kid. I would think if nothing else, lesson learned. And why would Dean risk getting an STD either?

I would think Dean would have been the one insisting on it and she made it into a sexy thing by putting it on with her mouth.

Quote

agree.  I figured she either 'drugged' him via some psycho-tropic hormone secreted through her skin which made him so horny he forgot to use one or her own bodily fluids would have just eaten through the it anyway.

If Lydia had some monster method of ruffie-ing him , that would make it rape IMO.  He agreed to sex, he didn't agree to being drugged and at that point if she wanted to go bareback and he didn't then he's not giving consent anymore.

Edited June 5, 2017 by catrox14

[MysteryGuest]

Considering the number of partners Dean's had, I don't see him being anything but diligent about practicing safe sex.  He carries enough guilt about just ditching the women he's been with, so I can't see him risking a pregnancy or STD.  I just assumed these Amazon women had a way around it, since this is pretty much their thing.  

[RulerofallIsurvey]

18 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Considering the number of partners Dean's had, I don't see him being anything but diligent about practicing safe sex.  He carries enough guilt about just ditching the women he's been with, so I can't see him risking a pregnancy or STD.  I just assumed these Amazon women had a way around it, since this is pretty much their thing.  

It's been awhile since I watched it, but I thought Dean kind of shrugged - as if to imply he couldn't remember specifically using one - when Sam asked about it.  Which left it vague, imo, as to whether he did or not.  Or I'm just remembering it wrong, which is possible.  :)

[SueB]

Dean's face... as he thinks about the possibility of an accident....

It's the last smirk that always had me convinced .....

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

If Lydia had some monster method of ruffie-ing him , that would make it rape IMO.  He agreed to sex, he didn't agree to being drugged and at that point if she wanted to go bareback and he didn't then he's not giving consent anymore.

I do kind of have to say so what to that.  She's a monster who is planning on having her child kill him.  Are we supposed to think she has any morals or that there is a level that she won't stoop down to?

[DittyDotDot]

32 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

It's been awhile since I watched it, but I thought Dean kind of shrugged - as if to imply he couldn't remember specifically using one - when Sam asked about it.  Which left it vague, imo, as to whether he did or not.  Or I'm just remembering it wrong, which is possible.

From the transcript:
 

Quote

 

SAM: Fine. I won't. But, Dean... Dude, seriously, a one-night stand, you're just gonna... roll the dice? You don't even –

DEAN: Of course not... Sam. What, do you think I'm brain-dead? Accidents happen. If one even did, which I-I-I don't think... (DEAN pauses and seems to be considering what happened. He gives a little smile.)

 

[MysteryGuest]

28 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

It's been awhile since I watched it, but I thought Dean kind of shrugged - as if to imply he couldn't remember specifically using one - when Sam asked about it.  Which left it vague, imo, as to whether he did or not.  Or I'm just remembering it wrong, which is possible.  :)

I do remember the scene.  He told Sam that of course he used protection, and then you could see him thinking about it, and probably not remembering because all he could remember was the sex, itself.  So I guess it's possible he didn't.   

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I agree.  I figured she either 'drugged' him via some psycho-tropic hormone secreted through her skin which made him so horny he forgot to use one or her own bodily fluids would have just eaten through the it anyway.  

 

10 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I do kind of have to say so what to that.  She's a monster who is planning on having her child kill him.  Are we supposed to think she has any morals or that there is a level that she won't stoop down to?

This all came up because we were talking about consent issues in the show in the spoiler thread and whether what Lydia did  at any point could be considered as rape.   I don't really understand your point here.

10 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I do remember the scene.  He told Sam that of course he used protection, and then you could see him thinking about it, and probably not remembering because all he could remember was the sex, itself.  So I guess it's possible he didn't.   

And it's possible that he remembers whatever they were doing related to using a condom was pleasurable.

Sadly, though, Slice Girls is a Buck Lemming script, so of course, there are consent issues and Dean being horny and stupid.  I think the show is implying that Dean didn't use protection and he has a monster baby as a result of his own bad judgment. 

[Katy M]

14 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

This all came up because we were talking about consent issues in the show in the spoiler thread and whether what Lydia did  at any point could be considered as rape.   I don't really understand your point here.

I guess my point is that she was planning on killing him, so what difference does the condom issue make?  If she drugged him, then OK, it's rape. If she distracted him so that he forgot to put a condom on, not rape.  If she poked a hole in his condom, while still wrong, not rape.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I guess my point is that she was planning on killing him, so what difference does the condom issue make?  If she drugged him, then OK, it's rape. If she distracted him so that he forgot to put a condom on, not rape.  If she poked a hole in his condom, while still wrong, not rape.

If Dean said, "Nope, no sex without a condom" and she ruffied him into not caring about using a condom, then that's not consent anymore. If she agreed to use the condom but messed with it, no that's not rape.

[MysteryGuest]

Dean didn't seem to be under the influence of anything other than lust when he went back to her apartment.  She was definitely the aggressor, but he was perfectly happy to let her have her way with him.  Actually, Dean does that quite a bit.  Rarely have we seen him be the aggressor in any of his sexual encounters.  Not that we've actually seen all that many.  Mores the pity...

Getting back to the topic at hand, I don't believe he was drugged, but he could have easily been so distracted by her eagerness that he didn't take the time to use a condom.  And that's probably by design on the part of the Amazons.  They're not looking for a relationship, so I don't think they leave much to chance.

[Wayward Son]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

But the reality is that kid is only President Jeff and Kelly's. I have no idea how it can even be Lucifer's LOL. But that's a discussion for another thread. 

Perhaps in the case of a male inhabiting angel and a human female, in addition to the man's sperm some of the angels grace was transferred and involved in the conception of the baby? It would certainly explain where their powers come from? Otherwise I've got nothing lol.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Perhaps in the case of a male inhabiting angel and a human female, in addition to the man's sperm some of the angels grace was transferred and involved in the conception of the baby? It would certainly explain where their powers come from? Otherwise I've got nothing lol.

LOL, it's really stupid.

The half demon/half human Jesse I can figure out because demons were once human so some kind of gene thing could work. But a nephilim is a weird thing from the jump in general.  If the wave of celestial intent was the thing that went into the body and that somehow attached to the human egg and then I guess I get it. But otherwise poor President Jeff

[DittyDotDot]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

LOL, it's really stupid.

The half demon/half human Jesse I can figure out because demons were once human so some kind of gene thing could work. But a nephilim is a weird thing from the jump in general.  If the wave of celestial intent was the thing that went into the body and that somehow attached to the human egg and then I guess I get it. But otherwise poor President Jeff

I think of it less as genetics and more of Lucifer was inhabiting President Jeff at the time of conception, so he is genetically human, but some of Lucifer's grace was infused in Jack when he was conceived. So, Jack has both grace and a soul, which is what makes him so powerful...I think.

[catrox14]

Just now, DittyDotDot said:

I think of it less as genetics and more of Lucifer was inhabiting President Jeff at the time of conception, so he is genetically human, but some of Lucifer's grace was infused in Jack when he was conceived. So, Jack has both grace and a soul, which is what makes him so powerful...I think.

That's what I'm trying to figure out is how did he the grace get transmitted though? Angels don't seem to take over the entire person like get into it's DNA. It sets up house as a renter and might relegate that person being possessed to back seat driver like with Cas and Lucifer. But demons get into the fiber of the person I think because of them originally being humans.That's the only way I can figure out the smoke thing and how Sam drinking demon blood could power him up.

Why am I even thinking about this?? I have too much time on my hands. LOL

[Wayward Son]

40 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

LOL, it's really stupid.

The half demon/half human Jesse I can figure out because demons were once human so some kind of gene thing could work. But a nephilim is a weird thing from the jump in general.  If the wave of celestial intent was the thing that went into the body and that somehow attached to the human egg and then I guess I get it. But otherwise poor President Jeff

 

Poor President Jeff indeed! In my opinion the genetic make up of Jack consists of: 

 

Kelly's egg + Jeff's sperm + Lucifer's angelic grace. 

 

So from our human perspective Jeff and Kelly are his parents. They are the one who would be identified as a match if a DNA test was carried out. However, from an Angels perspective it is probably entirely different. I imagine for them the inheritance of grace is probably just as big a deal. I could even imagine for an angel who views humans the way Lucifer does the grace inherited from him is far more important than "the genetic material of a mud monkey". 

 

In regards to Jesse he actually makes a lot less sense to me. Basically, from what we are told, his genetic make up consists of: 

 

A human female's egg + a mangled and twisted soul.  

 

Since we know from several statements demons are basically powered up ghosts. They have no physical form of their own outside of the human host they inhabit. So I could see a part of their soul latching on to a child, but they certainly shouldn't be enough to replace human sperm IMO, which makes his mother being a modern day Virgin Mary a bit laughable 

 

20 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

That's what I'm trying to figure out is how did he the grace get transmitted though? Angels don't seem to take over the entire person like get into it's DNA. It sets up house as a renter and might relegate that person being possessed to back seat driver like with Cas and Lucifer. But demons get into the fiber of the person I think because of them originally being humans.That's the only way I can figure out the smoke thing and how Sam drinking demon blood could power him up.

Why am I even thinking about this?? I have too much time on my hands. LOL

Perhaps an angel does get into the fiber of the person? It's been a while since I've watched season 8 and 9 due to my immense dislike of both. However, doesn't Castiel say the trials had damaged Sam at a molecular level he could not heal? And then Gadreel later argues that the only way for such damage to be healed is through possession. So perhaps, during active possession at least, an angel does alter their host at that level hence Gadreel being able to heal the damage done to Sam. 

[catrox14]

44 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Kelly's egg + Jeff's sperm + Lucifer's angelic grace. 

I get that is likely the way it goes

I want to know how can angelic grace get into President Jeff's sperm without altering his DNA in some way. If an angel can invade human DNA then that kind of implies that Sam might have Lucifer DNA in him now, doesn't it?

[Wayward Son]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I get that is likely the way it goes

I want to know how can angelic grace get into President Jeff's sperm without altering his DNA in some way. If an angel can invade human DNA then that kind of implies that Sam might have Lucifer DNA in him now, doesn't it?

Well we know from First Born that an angel does leave behind residual grace for a period of time post possession, so that grace could have his DNA temporarily altered for a period of time. However, I'd say any such effects on Sam have long worn off since it's been nearly 10 in verse years since he was possessed by Lucifer. 

[catrox14]

54 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

 

Poor President Jeff indeed! In my opinion the genetic make up of Jack consists of: 

 

Kelly's egg + Jeff's sperm + Lucifer's angelic grace. 

 

So from our human perspective Jeff and Kelly are his parents. They are the one who would be identified as a match if a DNA test was carried out. However, from an Angels perspective it is probably entirely different. I imagine for them the inheritance of grace is probably just as big a deal. I could even imagine for an angel who views humans the way Lucifer does the grace inherited from him is far more important than "the genetic material of a mud monkey". 

 

In regards to Jesse he actually makes a lot less sense to me. Basically, from what we are told, his genetic make up consists of: 

 

A human female's egg + a mangled and twisted soul.  

 

Since we know from several statements demons are basically powered up ghosts. They have no physical form of their own outside of the human host they inhabit. So I could see a part of their soul latching on to a child, but they certainly shouldn't be enough to replace human sperm IMO, which makes his mother being a modern day Virgin Mary a bit laughable 

 

Perhaps an angel does get into the fiber of the person? It's been a while since I've watched season 8 and 9 due to my immense dislike of both. However, doesn't Castiel say the trials had damaged Sam at a molecular level he could not heal? And then Gadreel later argues that the only way for such damage to be healed is through possession. So perhaps, during active possession at least, an angel does alter their host at that level hence Gadreel being able to heal the damage done to Sam. 

 

I don't think that's how Gadreel healed Sam. I think he just healed him like angels heal their vessels.

IMO, Gadreel was not so severely damaged that he couldn't heal Sam from the outside. I think he was lying to Dean so he could get a vessel.   IMO he healed Sam pretty early on and just kept lying to Dean so he could stay inside Sam.

[rue721]

On 8/11/2017 at 7:04 PM, Wayward Son said:

I imagine for them the inheritance of grace is probably just as big a deal.

Also, when an angel produces a nephilism, is the angel "creating" grace by "creating" the nephilism? That could open up a can of worms.

Albeit, Chuck doesn't seem like a very jealous God, so maybe he wouldn't care.

But one relatively legitimate reason why the angels are against producing nephilism could be that they have some rule against creating (in their own image) because that's usurping God's role in the universe.

Also seems to me like it could be a relevant issue because it's Lucifer in particular who's involved.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

On 8/11/2017 at 6:12 PM, catrox14 said:

The half demon/half human Jesse I can figure out because demons were once human so some kind of gene thing could work. But a nephilim is a weird thing from the jump in general.  If the wave of celestial intent was the thing that went into the body and that somehow attached to the human egg and then I guess I get it. But otherwise poor President Jeff

Tbh, I think the show kind of screwed up with having angels have to possess humans in order to be on earth.  To me, it makes sense that a demon has to possess a human.  But I think angels should have just been able to manifest themselves (although at a great expense of power, which would have limited the time they could spend on earth - which could have been been used as some interesting plot points with Cas) as 'human'.  Then nephilim would have made more sense to me, since they'd be a hybrid - forgive the really bad example, but the only one I can think of would be a mule.  Same basic 'family' but two different species.  ::shrug:: oh well.  I don't know what to think now.

[Wayward Son]

49 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I don't know.  I don't personally see the correlation to transgender persons myself. Maybe pansexuality is the wrong term for interspeies sex in this show? Maybe omnisexual is a better term for it? IIll go with that instead and edit my comments accordingly.

I can see where you are coming from and I don’t entirely disagree with you, but at the same time I don’t think I can fully agree either. IMO Sam and Dean’s decision was largely influenced by a sexual desire for the female bodies worn by Anna and Ruby at the time. I don’t think either had entirely fallen for the person behind the vessel. I don’t think Sam would have slept with Ruby had her vessel been a handsome man nor do I think Dean would have slept with Anna in a handsome Male vessel. Nor do I think had angels and demons non-human looking bodies of their own would they have slept with them. 

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

can see where you are coming from and I don’t entirely disagree with you, but at the same time I don’t think I can fully agree either. IMO Sam and Dean’s decision was largely influenced by a sexual desire for the female bodies worn by Anna and Ruby at the time. I don’t think either had entirely fallen for the person behind the vessel. I don’t think Sam would have slept with Ruby had her vessel been a handsome man nor do I think Dean would have slept with Anna in a handsome Male vessel. Nor do I think had angels and demons non-human looking bodies of their own would they have slept with them. 

I understand.

I have to say I'm a little bothered that my original comments are being taking out of context from my original point which had everything to do with the spoiler about

Spoiler

"tentacle porn"

which is why I made my remark. I still think Dean would have sex with a humanoid with tentacles if he so desired. Honestly, that is literally all I was talking about. Nothing to do with them being straight or gay or bi.  I never brought that up at all and I wasn't implying it either.

My point is that the boys knew they were having sex with entities inside vessels or knew to be of another species (Madison) regardless of gender which I never mentioned at all.   So to me that makes them omnisexual which is why I changed it from pansexual. 

If you guys want to have that discussion, feel free but that's not the discussion I was having.

[Wayward Son]

Just now, catrox14 said:

I understand.

I have to say I'm a little bothered that my original comments are being taking out of context from my original point which had everything to do with the spoiler about

  Hide contents

"tentacle porn"

which is why I made my remark. I still think Dean would have sex with a humanoid with tentacles if he so desired. Honestly, that is literally all I was talking about. Nothing to do with them being straight or gay or bi.  I never brought that up at all and I wasn't implying it either.

My point is that the boys knew they were having sex with entities inside vessels or knew to be of another species (Madison) regardless of gender which I never mentioned at all.   So to me that makes them omnisexual which is why I changed it from pansexual. 

If you guys want to have that discussion, feel free but that's not the discussion I was having.

I see where you’re coming from now and I’d agree with you on the term omnisexual since they’ve slept with different humanoid species particularly in the case of Sam/Madison. In that case it wasn’t even a human body being possessed by an outside entity, but Madison body itself was non-human :) 

[catrox14]

13 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I see where you’re coming from now and I’d agree with you on the term omnisexual since they’ve slept with different humanoid species particularly in the case of Sam/Madison. In that case it wasn’t even a human body being possessed by an outside entity, but Madison body itself was non-human :) 

I thought I said this in my other comments but I guess I wasn't clear.

[Aeryn13]

I don`t think Sam thought "other species" when he slept with Madison. Didn`t they have sex when they were all thinking "phew, crisis averted"? 

Maybe it`s because I watch a lot of vampire shows where of course human characters have sex with vampires but while there is a lot of the expected angst about being with a vampire - never aging, having lots more life experiences, violent streaks - when it comes to the actual sex it`s still just "hot guy/girl", maybe with a side dish of "fantastic in bed due to having so much experience at it".

Or on Supergirl, there is angst about what it means to be an alien in a relationship but I`m guessing any dude would just see "hot chick" with Kara. The character Winn IS dating an alien girl and that is pretty much just played as raunchy.  

I view things in Supernatural pretty much the same. Yes, the brothers hunt "monsters" but that doesn`t mean that if they did some sort of short-term love story with either of them and, say, a vamp, I would think it meant anything to their sexuality. 

Anna for example wasn`t so much in a vessel or meatsuit as that this was the human body she created from the ground up. She fell, impregnated her own "mother" basically to allow herself to be born and grow up that way. So that was always Anna, it was never anyone else. Ruby`s coma-girl previously was someone. 

Still, when Dean slept with Anna it was because of an emotional connection he had with her in that moment, not "oh, banging another species". 

IMO what matters most to the characters is the gender of their sex partners because so far they have not shown a true sexual preference or even interest in the same gender. Which is not me saying they are homophobic. Simply that they are attracted to females same as I`m attracted to males. Or like other CW shows have a couple of bi characters.

Now I will say that if Cas had been in a female vessel from the start and "Ruby" had always been in a male vessel (and probably not been called Ruby), there would have been no Sam/Ruby-sexing but there would have been Dean/Cas-sexing. The show really is formulaic enough that either scenario would be entirely predictable.    

[Wayward Son]

11 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Didn`t they have sex when they were all thinking "phew, crisis averted"? 

Funnily enough I was just about to post that my opinion on Madison / Sam changed because I remembered he thought she was a human at the time. 

 

11 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

IMO what matters most to the characters is the gender of their sex partners because so far they have not shown a true sexual preference or even interest in the same gender. Which is not me saying they are homophobic. Simply that they are attracted to females same as I`m attracted to males. Or like other CW shows have a couple of bi characters.

This is pretty much my take on it. 

 

I must confess I wouldn’t consider myself an absolute expert on all things sexuality so yourself or others with more knowledge feel free to point out the errors in the following. 

 

As I understand it a pansexual is someone who is capable of developing romantic connections and physical attraction to a wide range of people including: cisgender male and females and transgender males and females. Pansexuals don’t care about gender it’s the individuals who matter to them. An omnisexual is quite similar only they do notice gender and are attracted to all, but may still have preferences. For example someone can be omnisexual (capable of forming romantic and sexual attractions to cis and trans males and females, but have a preference for cis!females). In fictional verses like Supernatural where other humanoids exists people often extend omnisexual to include other species.

 

The more I think on it the more I don’t think either label applies to the Winchester brothers for the reason you say. Gender is very much a consideration for Sam and Dean. They lack the pansexuals lack of regard for gender or the omnisexuals fluid nature. Their preferences lie exclusively with attractive females. IMO they wouldn’t have slept with Ruby or Anna had they been in Male vessels nor would they have slept with them had they been in humanoid bodies with say two heads and tentacles. 

[catrox14]

15 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

IMO what matters most to the characters is the gender of their sex partners because so far they have not shown a true sexual preference or even interest in the same gender. Which is not me saying they are homophobic. Simply that they are attracted to females same as I`m attracted to males. Or like other CW shows have a couple of bi characters.

But again, I wasn't saying anything about them being straight or gay or bi. 

This is still getting so twisted. LOL

IMO if they were averse to sleeping with a demon, an angel, or a werewolf, they wouldn't have done it regardless of them being in an attractive meatsuit. To me, Dean was a little smitten with Anna, not in love of course, but love doesn't matter in this situation. Who knows if Sam was in love with Ruby but he was involved with her for a long time prior to sex I think so there was attachment. And clearly he didn't care that she was a demon, he just cared that the meatsuit didn't have a soul.

[Wayward Son]

27 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

But again, I wasn't saying anything about them being straight or gay or bi.

Fair enough but I do think, as I mention in my post to Aeryn, Sam and Dean’s preferences did influence their decision. 

 

As I said in my last post, as I understand, it an omnisexual is someone who is aware of gender (and in this case species), they even have preferences eg a tendency to go for females, but they are capable of forming romantic bonds and physical attraction to every gender (and species) under the right circumstances.

 

Obviously such creatures don’t exist in real life, but thereotically a true omnisexual would be capable of forming romantic feelings and sexual attraction to non-human looking but sentient beings. For example a  omnisexual would theoretically be capable of  developing feelings for beings who look like this

 

 

OR this

 

 

OR this

 

 

under the right circumstances. 

 

However, IMO this isn’t the case for Sam and Dean. IMO Sam and Dean’s decisions to sleep with Ruby and Anna were partially a)  her vessels a hot chick and b) shes not a total dick, I’m horny and why not? 

 

I dont think Sam and Dean would ever have considered sleeping with Ruby or Anna had they looked like the humanoid species above and that’s why I don’t think the term omnisexual fits. They’re still very much only capable of developing feelings and sexual attraction for human females (or at least those who look like human females).

 

For anyone interested the above pictures are characters from the television show Farscape. 

 

ETA: This post is in no way an attack or criticism of Sam and Dean. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being solely attracted to members of the opposite sex, as they are, nor am I trying to imply there’s something wrong with it :)

Edited April 3, 2018 by Wayward Son

[companionenvy]

To me, real-world considerations don't entirely apply because, IRL, we don't (yet) have sentient non-human or non-humanoid beings. But given that pan and omnisexual refer to attraction, in the context of a world in which such beings do exist, I can't see how Sam or Dean having sex with people who physically present as identical to human females changes their sexuality, whether or not they know that the person is actually an angel/demon/werewolf/whatever.

Even in a show like Star Trek, where you have a range of species with a range of physical attributes and many canonical interspecies relationships, I wouldn't call all of the human characters who sleep with non-humans omnisexual. Vulcans, Bajorans, and Trill, to name a few, all have physical differences from humans, but minor enough ones that I don't see being attracted to a member of that species as substantially different from being attracted to someone of a different human race. I mean, Bajorans are essentially identical to humans expect for having ridges on their noses. When Kira winds up in 20th century Earth in a couple of episodes, all she has to do is stick a band-aid on her nose, and she fits in fine.

That's different from characters who are capable of feeling attraction for non-humanoids - I can't think of a fully human example from ST off the top of my head, but there's the episode where Kira has sex with the Changeling Odo while he is in non-humanoid (indeed, non-solid) form, and humanoid Dax, beyond marrying a Klingon, refers to dates with members of radically physically different species. To use an example from a different show, there's a distinct difference, I think, between Rose or Martha being in love with the alien but human-appearing Doctor, and Jack Harkness, with his "so many species, so little time" philosophy, which evidently includes non-humanoid robots, beings with tentacles, etc. 

[Wayward Son]

3 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

Jack Harkness, with his "so many species, so little time" philosophy, which evidently includes non-humanoid robots, beings with tentacles, etc. 

I don’t watch, to know for certain, but based on your post Jack Harness sounds like someone who’d fit in to the category of a species omnisexual rather than Sam and Dean who are still very much focused on human females or those who look identical to human females.

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I dont think Sam and Dean would ever have considered sleeping with Ruby or Anna had they looked like the humanoid species above and that’s why I don’t think the term omnisexual fits. They’re still very much only capable of developing feelings and sexual attraction for human females (or at least those who look like human females).

Well, it is the closest available in the SPN world which is all I'm speaking. And we don't know that they can't develop feelings.  I mean Dean loves Cas if not romantically. And he had fondness for Anna.

[Wayward Son]

Just now, catrox14 said:

Well, it is the closest available in the SPN world which is all I'm speaking. And we don't know that they can't develop feelings.  I mean Dean loves Cas if not romantically. And he had fondness for Anna.

Yes, he cares for Cas, but he has never slept with Cas or expressed a desire to do so nor has he ever claimed a romantic attachment to him. At best the example of Cas proves he isn’t speciesist and he is capable of forming platonic attachments to other species. 

 

Yes, he was fond of Anna, but IMO that fondness would never have been anything other than platonic had she looked like one of the examples I gave above or had other unique physical characteristics such as tentacles etc. It was Anna’s distinctly female human like appearance that allowed him to become sexually interested in her. IMO Dean would never take the “So many species, so little time” philosophy @companionenvy references above. 

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

r. IMO Dean would never take the “So many species, so little time” philosophy @companionenvy references above. 

I don't think there is evidence either way other than he had sex with an angel.

[Wayward Son]

10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I don't think there is evidence either way other than he had sex with an angel.

Fair enough. I think we can agree to disagree on the conclusion we’ve reached based on what we’ve seen to date. I of course reserve the right to change my opinion, and apologise for doubting you, if a later scene features Dean and a non-human looking humanoid :)  

 

ETA: For future convenience I’m going to refer to two different types of Omnisexuality. 

 

1) Gender based Omnisexuality - This is the traditional real world based use of the term, and the type I think some thought you were referring to. 

 

2) Species Based Omnisexuality - It means a characters sexual preferences may be limited to one sex (female in the case of Sam and Dean) but they’re open to sexual encounters with females of multiple human and non human like humanoids. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Wayward Son

[Aeryn13]

Quote

For anyone interested the above pictures are characters from the television show Farscape. 

I could see Chiana having a real shot. She has the most "exotic but close enough to human" look of the non-humans.

If you want tentacle porn, you could go for Pilot, of course. And if you wanna go weird, look no further than Rygel. Ahem.

[companionenvy]

25 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I don't think there is evidence either way other than he had sex with an angel.

I agree that it isn't evidence of anything, as far as species omnisexuality is concerned. All we know is that Dean slept with an attractive, female appearing angel, and that Sam slept with an attractive, female-appearing demon. That isn't evidence that they wouldn't sleep with a more "exotic" looking being, but it isn't evidence that they would, either. 

[Wayward Son]

6 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I could see Chiana having a real shot. She has the most "exotic but close enough to human" look of the non-humans.

If you want tentacle porn, you could go for Pilot, of course. And if you wanna go weird, look no further than Rygel. Ahem.

Oh god the image of Dean and a female Rygel hahahahaha 

[Aeryn13]

I would picture a female Rygel more with Sam. You get endless material out of height jokes alone. 

[Wayward Son]

10 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I would picture a female Rygel more with Sam. You get endless material out of height jokes alone. 

LOL 

 

Now just to tweet Dabb with suggestions of a SN/Farscape crossover with pairings of F!Rygel/Sam and F!Pilot/Dean haha.

 

For those who haven’t watched Farscape 

 

This is Pilot

 

And this is Rygel 

[catrox14]

41 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

t we’ve seen to date. I of course reserve the right to change my opinion, and apologise for doubting you, if a later scene features Dean and a non-human looking humanoid :) 

How could there be a non  human looking ...humanoid? Isn't a humanoid...human looking with variations or human like qualities?

For me, the bottom line is that on screen, Dean and Sam both knew they were having sex with supernatural entities that were living inside meatsuits/vessels and a monster. I don't think either of them were deluding themselves that they weren't.  Maybe Sam was deluding himself about Madison, but he was still attracted to her be she werewolf or not which is why it was so hard for him to kill her. 

[Wayward Son]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

How could there be a non  human looking ...humanoid? Isn't a humanoid...human looking with variations or human like qualities?

Perhaps I used the wrong terminology. When I say a non human looking humanoid I’m thinking people like 

 

2 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

 

 

 

Those I.e. they’ve the same general height and build as a human, but their features are otherwise very different looking to a human I.e. blue skin, tentacles instead of or in addition to arms and feet etc. 

[catrox14]

ETA: I don't see how that makes them not omnisexual...but that's just me LOL. YMMV as clearly it does. 

Maybe it's just situational sexuality. They'll just have sex when they feel like with whomever is offering.

Heck, I've read not just fanfiction but an interpretation of the Dean/Benny relationship as having been romantic in Purgatory. If that has any element of truth well then make of it what you will. I don't think Dean and Benny were romantic nor sexual but hey if they were...

16 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Those I.e. they’ve the same general height and build as a human, but their features are otherwise very different looking to a human I.e. blue skin, tentacles instead of or in addition to arms and feet etc. 

So then this circles back to my whole original point,

In the spoiler thread,

Spoiler

Sue B was wondering why no one was talking about tentacle porn spoiler and why would Dean know about it.

I'm saying that Dean knows a lot about a lot of sexual things and that would be something he would find interesting and maybe even participate if given the chance given he's participated in sex with supernatural beings already. That's literally all my point has ever been. Vessels or not, female or male, was never my point LOL. Never something I was even thinking about when I made that comment. I do think it would require a humanoid like figure, however, unless Dean was like WTH! Let's do it!".

I used pansexual the first time because I hadn't thought of a better word. Omnisexual is the closest. Maybe we should just name our own for this show and make it SuperSexual LOL I"m not actually kidding since the rules in this show are kind of different from the rest of the world LOL

IMO that makes Dean and Sam  SuperSexual since they knowingly engaged in sex with supernatural entities.  That's my new term.

Edited April 3, 2018 by catrox14
I never thought this would escalate to this kind of debate LOL

[MysteryGuest]

3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Now I will say that if Cas had been in a female vessel from the start and "Ruby" had always been in a male vessel (and probably not been called Ruby), there would have been no Sam/Ruby-sexing but there would have been Dean/Cas-sexing. The show really is formulaic enough that either scenario would be entirely predictable.  

But if Cas were female, she wouldn't have lasted the season as a love interest for Dean.  Fans would have made sure of that.  

Edited April 3, 2018 by MysteryGuest

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, companionenvy said:

All we know is that Dean slept with an attractive, female appearing angel, and that Sam slept with an attractive, female-appearing demon.

Just a minor point:  Anna was *not* an angel at the time.  An angel without grace (even if she still thinks of herself as an angel) is human, just like Cas, without his grace, was human.  Ruby was a demon-in-a-human body, but the demon was on top.  I don't know if that makes a difference (if, for instance, the demon wasn't running the show, but just observing or even sleeping like the demon in the nurse.)  

 

About tentacle porn--my favorite (throwaway) scene was in Galaxy Quest.  Anyone remember that one?  

[Whodunnit]

About Ruby:

I do wonder if things would have happened differently if someone had given Sam a pair of those truesight sunglasses (you remember, the ones used to see the true forms in the episode where they were going up against invisible hell hounds and there was a farm in like season 10 or 11?)

I think that their reactions to those true forms would be a better indication of how broad their sexuality is, than what a creature looks like in a hot meat suit.

Eta: Because I don't think that they are pansexual, so physical form does matter.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Whodunnit

[catrox14]

12 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Just a minor point:  Anna was *not* an angel at the time.  An angel without grace (even if she still thinks of herself as an angel) is human, just like Cas, without his grace, was human.  Ruby was a demon-in-a-human body, but the demon was on top.  I don't know if that makes a difference (if, for instance, the demon wasn't running the show, but just observing or even sleeping like the demon in the nurse.)  

 Anna self-identified as a graceless angel.  I don't remember it being discussed that it was only because Anna didn't have her grace that Dean was okay with having sex with her. That didn't come up at all. Maybe I'm forgetting something.

[takalotti]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I used pansexual the first time because I hadn't thought of a better word. Omnisexual is the closest. Maybe we should just name our own for this show and make it SuperSexual LOL I"m not actually kidding since the rules in this show are kind of different from the rest of the world LOL

IMO that makes Dean and Sam  SuperSexual since they knowingly engaged in sex with supernatural entities.  That's my new term.

 

I literally cackled outloud at "SuperSexual"! ???

My only question is what’s the term for humans who are only interested in Supernatural beings but not other humans? Would that be HeteroSuperSexual? And it would also apply to say, vampires who were sexually attracted to werewolves but not other vampires. So then beings who are only attracted to their own kinds of beings are HomoSuperSexuals? Which would make Dean and Sam Bi(or Pan or Omni)SuperSexuals?

Edited April 3, 2018 by takalotti