“Bitch” Vs. “Jerk”: Where We Discuss Who The Writers Screwed This Week/Season/Ever

[Pondlass1]

It's very frustrating being a Dean gal right now. 

[ILoveReading]

This is why I started calling Sam, St. Sam.  The writers practically canonized him in this one.

[Pondlass1]

Let's take up a collection and buy a t-shirt printed with the words 'I'm sorry for being a dick' and Dean could wear it on every episode. It would save the writers a lot of time and ink.

[gonzosgirrl]

I hate that Dean had to apologize again. I hate it even more that they made it necessary for him to apologize, because as written, he was being an OTT dick, not a grieving, broken man just looking for something to blame. And I hate Andrew Dabb with the heat of the sun. As said above, no one will convince me this character assassination isn't personal.

Edited November 3, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[DeeDee79]

7 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I hate that Dean had to apologize again. I hate it even more that they made it necessary for him to apologize, because as written, he was being an OTT dick, not a grieving, broken man just looking for something to blame. And I hate Andrew Dabb with the heat of the sun. As said above, no one will convince me this character assassination isn't personal.

I was (tentatively) optimistic after Dean got to vent last week but I seems that it's gone the same as when Dean let Mary have it and apologized for daring to have feelings an episode later. I haven't watched yet but I'm not feeling too hopeful from some of the opinions of fellow Deangirls.

Edited November 3, 2017 by DeeDee79

[ILoveReading]

3 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I was (tentatively) optimistic after Dean got to vent last week but I seems that it's gone the same as when Dean let Mary have it and apologized for daring to have feelings an episode later. I haven't watched yet but I'm not feeling too hopeful from some of the opinions of fellow Deangirls.

Now that Dean has acquiesed to Sam, I guess we'll be back to Valium Dean next week. 

The only thing that is making this season bearable so far is Jensen's acting and the fact that Jack wants Dean's approval more than Sam's.  I'm sure that was an accident as I don't think Dabb meant for that to happen.

Edited November 3, 2017 by ILoveReading

[DeeDee79]

14 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

The only thing that is making this season bearable so far is Jensen's acting

I still enjoy the earlier seasons but this is what keeps me watching throughout the latter ones.

Edited November 3, 2017 by DeeDee79

[companionenvy]

Y'all know I'm a Sam defender on these parts, and I'm not as incensed as all of you. But I have to say, this episode, for the first time, I was ticked off at the presentation of Dean. I'm not particularly mad at Sam -- although the idiotic John comment was uncalled for --; I'm mad at the writers for making Dean such an OTT jerk, which is character regression at this point, IMO.  Of course Sam is telling Dean his feelings are wrong, because Dean is behaving like a super-macho nine year old rather than like a near forty-year-old man who has had extensive experience with loss. That doesn't mean he should be "used to" and unaffected by loss, but it does mean he shouldn't be taking it out on a being who has shown himself to be nothing but well-intentioned so far -- and I don't believe a non-caricature version of Dean Winchester would do it. It isn't a good look for Sam either, because it forces them into a tired dynamic of long-suffering Sam and emotional cretin Dean, which is a parody of what these characters really are when this show is at its best.

I will say I liked that Sam actually got to show emotion -- except was he was saying doesn't really match up to what we saw on screen last year. Mary did text Dean, but it wasn't like she was being warm and fuzzy with either of her boys, and Sam could have picked up the phone too. 

The shifter's reaction to Dean was also off. Yeah, I think Dean has been a dick to Jack. But I don't think he's been particularly harsh to Sam, and for some reason, her response focused on how Dean was hurting him, rather than Jack. Dean being resistant to therapy and saying, with some anger, that Sam is in denial about their mom dying -- which actually is the reasonable thing to think -- isn't all that terrible, and any therapist worth her salt would have focused on the fact that Dean, too, was obviously hurting, rather than repeatedly shaming him.

To not stray too far from my usual MO on this thread, I will point out that Dean telling Jack that Sam's plans don't always turn out so well (while true) is the kind of comment that I think some Dean fans would be really angry about Sam making. 

I actually liked the final scene, as i think there's some psychological subtlety in the idea of Dean not believing, but wanting Sam to. But I hope we're done with the boys being at odds. 

[ILoveReading]

I guess since Dean got a kill last week they had to make him twice as inept this week to make up for it.

[Myrelle]

Quote

Frankly, I couldn't care less about the "Dean is a dick" crowd, since their opinion is never going to change anyway.  If that's all they're getting out of this show, then it's their loss.

If it didn't feel as if Dabb and Singer were the leaders of the "Dean is a dick" crowd, this would be easier to do, but unfortunately that's exactly what it feels like to some since Dabb officially took over in S12 and some of us could even feel it coming when he was supposedly waiting in the wings to take over in S11.

[gonzosgirrl]

On 10/29/2017 at 1:42 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

Season to date:

Saves: Dean 2  Sam 2

Kills: Dean 2 Sam 2

13x04

Saves go to Jack. Kill goes to Sam. And that's all I have to say about that.

Season to date:

Saves: Dean 2  Sam 2

Kills: Dean 2 Sam 3

---

They should've just named 13x04 Remember What We Did to Sam in S8a? Well Here It Is, Only With Dean and in Spades.

If that long, pointed look/pause after Sam sneers 'you want me to move on from mom?' (or whatever the exact words were) wasn't an anvil the size of Texas, then I just don't know.

Trouble for me is, I don't think it was all that out of character for Sam to give up on Dean. It is 100% out of character for Dean to write off Mary. And what about respecting her choice to go after Lucifer. What about the greater good served by keeping Lucifer locked away, even if it meant her death. WHAT THE FUCK ABOUT THAT, SAM???

Don't even get me started on Sam saying Dean was just like John (uhh, buy a fucking mirror Sam). And the whole Dean got to be with Mary nonsense. FFS. And the totally OTT writing of Dean as a complete a-hole in the first half, only to apologize and negate his whole arc in the second is... I don't even know the word. Jensen carried it off, as always, but for once it wasn't enough.

Edited November 3, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[Katy M]

15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Trouble for me is, I don't think it was all that out of character for Sam to give up on Dean. It is 100% out of character for Dean to write off Mary. And what about respecting her choice to go after Lucifer. What about the greater good served by keeping Lucifer locked away, even if it meant her death. WHAT THE FUCK ABOUT THAT, SAM???

I think Sam was right in Season 8.  And, I think Dean is right now.  So, at least I'm being consistent.  Which is more than I can say for either one of them.   

But, on the other hand, maybe they both learned different lessons over the intervening years.  Maybe Dean learned from the Book of the Damned and mark business that you shouldn't mess with stuff .  Although that doesn't really seem to be his problem.  I don't remember him bringing up the argument of Lucifer.  If he did, he hasn't belabored it like he has just accepting and giving up hope.  Not sure where that lesson would have come in.

But, anyway, moving on to Sam, we know that he learned the lesson about not giving up on family, because Dean yelled at him about it for a whole year.  Heck, even Crowley got a couple of licks in on that one.  So, he's never going to give up again. He's like me in that way.  I always say I never make the same mistake twice. I just find different ones to make all the time.

[companionenvy]

10 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Trouble for me is, I don't think it was all that out of character for Sam to give up on Dean.

Really? Sam refused to accept that Dean was dying in "Faith," spent a year trying to get Dean out of his deal, and kept searching for a way to bring him back after he died, up to and including offering to take his place in hell. MMV on how bad it was that Sam decided not to search for Dean, given the information and resources he had at his disposal, but it wasn't part of any kind of a pattern of Sam not going to great lengths to save his brother.

13 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Don't even get me started on Sam saying Dean was just like John (uhh, buy a fucking mirror Sam).

What bothered me more was Sam saying that John's parenting style "worked for Dean, but not for Sam." As far back as season 1, I think Sam recognized that while Dean was devoted to John, John's parenting style had failed both of them. Certainly, he should (and does) know it by now.

Although as it is quite possible that the newbie writers haven't seen episodes like Bad Boys, I can't be that surprised. Which, I think, is part of the problem: given that we know that the show is using writers who haven't watched all of canon, they miss the subtleties and fill in "characterization" based on broadstrokes understanding of the differences between the characters. So in the weakest episodes, Dean gets to be the angry one who wants to kill all monsters, and Sam gets to be the cooler and more compassionate head whose only problem is that he  just trusts people too gosh-darn much.  This, IMO, does no favors to either character; Dean becomes a jerk, and Sam gets the thankless task of emotional "straight-man," a role that, like the long-suffering sitcom wife who has to deal with her bumbling husband, easily crosses the line into condescension and doesn't offer as much opportunity for sustained character explanation. By contrast, the thing that I think first elevated this show for me over silly supernatural capers was Kripke's willingness to deconstruct the Winchester's apparent identities, so that Sam could be the more brutal one, and Dean could be the smart one, and so on. 

 

17 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

What bothered me more was Sam saying that John's parenting style "worked for Dean, but not for Sam."

Ha, that came across like "it`s good enough for a dumb, blunt tool like you but Jack and me are made for better things". 

However, the revisionist history about Mary was much worse. "Wah, Dean, you had it so good and got all the Mom-cuddles". Seriously, Sam? Does memory morph in your mind the way you like it or something? She was as shitty to Dean as she was to Sam. All attempts to reach out came from Dean and he got little back. Not to mention he was an afterthought to her as a person, she only ever fretted about Sam. Allthewhile Sam bitched at him the entire time how he was doing it wrong back then. 

Now what, Sam has made that into "you were so the favoured child, you big meanie". All I thought was: fuck you. 

On top of the hand the carricature writing with sainted martyr Sam and mean bully Dean.

Of course it ended with Dean submitting to Sam`s will because that is apparently what the fandom likes to see. Not me, I enjoy the character with some dignitiy and a spine but feel pretty alone in this. 

Action-wise, it was also a gigantic bust with the easy knock-out offscreen. 

Hard pass on that episode.   

[ILoveReading]

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

But, on the other hand, maybe they both learned different lessons over the intervening years.

The problem with s8 isn't that Sam didn't make a deal its that he didn't even try.  In 6.01 we have Dean saying he collected books looked for ways to get Sam free but he didn't try to make a deal or bust open the cage.

There is a huge gap between research and deals. 

So even if Dean is uncomfortable getting Jack to open up rift world, it's 100% out of character for Dean to just give up.  They could have showed Dean researching (he knows how despite Dabb thinking Dean barely knows how to read).  Dean's biggest character trait is not giving up on family.

Let's say for one minute, I buy this so called grief arc of Dean just not being able to have hope, the writers did not explore this in any way.  All we saw was how Dean's grief was an inconvenience for others.  Jack was sad that Dean was mean to him, Sam but the responsibility for Jack at Dean's feet when Dean indicated he didn't want it.  Even the grief counselor victim shamed Dean in this one.    Then Dean had to apologize for having feelings.

Sam certainly didn't care how Dean was feeling.  He rarely does.    So I don't buy he wants to save Mary because Dean made him feel bad.   I think we saw why Sam wants to save Mary.  He wants a chance to have a relationship with her. 

IMO, if Sam is doing it because Dean hurt his feelings then that would come across to me as once again Sam blaming Dean for his actions. 

[MysteryGuest]

10 hours ago, Myrelle said:

If it didn't feel as if Dabb and Singer were the leaders of the "Dean is a dick" crowd, this would be easier to do, but unfortunately that's exactly what it feels like to some since Dabb officially took over in S12 and some of us could even feel it coming when he was supposedly waiting in the wings to take over in S11.

I know this is the feeling that some people have, but I just can't buy into the idea that the show runners would deliberately try to destroy a very popular character on their own show.  It's not like Jensen has decided to leave and they're going to write him out of the show.  SPN is about both brothers and I would say there's a fairly even split between Dean fans and Sam fans, also allowing for those who enjoy both brothers equally.  It just doesn't make financial sense to deliberately try to piss off half of your audience.  This doesn't mean that I'm always happy with how the storylines go, I just don't think it's a plot of some kind.

[Jeddah]

37 minutes ago, Katy M said:

But, anyway, moving on to Sam, we know that he learned the lesson about not giving up on family, because Dean yelled at him about it for a whole year.  Heck, even Crowley got a couple of licks in on that one.  So, he's never going to give up again.

I agree. I think Sam got the message. Even Lucifer told him it was the worst thing he’d ever done!

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I know this is the feeling that some people have, but I just can't buy into the idea that the show runners would deliberately try to destroy a very popular character on their own show. 

Why not? If they got everyone (or nearly everyone) to switch over to fanboying and worshipping Sam, it would be no problem for them. The writing is surely manipulative enough to tell me 5000 times why I have to abhor mean bully Dean who can`t do anything right and why I should worship Sam Saint Winchester and now Jack Woobie Kline.

[Diane]

Just now, Aeryn13 said:

Why not? If they got everyone (or nearly everyone) to switch over to fanboying and worshipping Sam, it would be no problem for them. The writing is surely manipulative enough to tell me 5000 times why I have to abhor mean bully Dean who can`t do anything right and why I should worship Sam Saint Winchester and now Jack Woobie Kline.

Because that is not what they are saying, you are watching this through an obviously very biased lens.  There are a lot of us that don't see it that way at all.  Just because you want to believe it doesn't make it true. This is not the Dean show, this is a show about 2 brothers Sam & Dean.  This is the show that I am watching. 

[Aeryn13]

I wish they were capable of making a show about two lead characters, without manipulation 101 but it`s evident to me that they are not. 

And I had hopes for Meredith Glynn after last Season but this dreck could have easily come from Dabb, Bucklemming, Berens or Perez. Honestly, I was floored to see such a simplistic episode from her on how Dean is wrong and Sam is right.  

[ILoveReading]

6 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I know this is the feeling that some people have, but I just can't buy into the idea that the show runners would deliberately try to destroy a very popular character on their own show.  It's not like Jensen has decided to leave and they're going to write him out of the show.  SPN is about both brothers and I would say there's a fairly even split between Dean fans and Sam fans, also allowing for those who enjoy both brothers equally.  It just doesn't make financial sense to deliberately try to piss off half of your audience.  This doesn't mean that I'm always happy with how the storylines go, I just don't think it's a plot of some kind.

This did happen on Dark Angel.  Alec was a very popular character and the main stars resented it.  The more season 2 went on the more ineffective and marginalized Alec became.

So while it doesn't make a lot of sense it does happen.  I'd be willing to be it happens more than we realize.  I can't watch from 12B to now and not see a vast difference in how Dean is being written.  Skills he once had no longer exist.  He barely competent in fight scenes, his history and experiences have all but been erased. 

That IMO, is not how you write a lead character or one that you have a fondness for.  

[gonzosgirrl]

43 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

Really? Sam refused to accept that Dean was dying in "Faith," spent a year trying to get Dean out of his deal, and kept searching for a way to bring him back after he died, up to and including offering to take his place in hell. MMV on how bad it was that Sam decided not to search for Dean, given the information and resources he had at his disposal, but it wasn't part of any kind of a pattern of Sam not going to great lengths to save his brother.

 

Yes, really. I'm including walking away under that umbrella of giving up, and I think Sam did that a number of times. At the least, he showed that moving on was something he was far more capable of than Dean (right or wrong). So yeah, it was more in-character for Sam to do it than Dean, for whom I believe it is completely and utterly out of character.

So this:

54 minutes ago, Katy M said:

But, anyway, moving on to Sam, we know that he learned the lesson about not giving up on family, because Dean yelled at him about it for a whole year.  Heck, even Crowley got a couple of licks in on that one.  So, he's never going to give up again. He's like me in that way.  I always say I never make the same mistake twice. I just find different ones to make all the time.

I am 100% fine with Sam learning his lesson and not giving up on her. I want him to be that way. Yay for Sam! But there was absolutely no need for them to throw Dean under that same bus in order to do it.  That's what's pissing me off so much. It was completely unnecessary for Dean to be on the other side of this, grief-stricken or not. It served no purpose, IMO, except to let Sam fans feel better about what they did to him in S8. That one line, along with Sam's pregnant pause convinces me of it.

Edited November 3, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[Bobcatkitten]

It's like I'm watching a whole different show. Perhaps I don't analyze enough. I love Dean - even when he is occasionally a dick. And that's cool because he has had dick moments the entire series. It's part of why I love the character. He also has amazing moments.

A series like this has to ebb and flow. Conflict is necessary. It would be so boring - and not realistic - if they got along and agreed all the time. 

[Myrelle]

8 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This did happen on Dark Angel.  Alec was a very popular character and the main stars resented it.  The more season 2 went on the more ineffective and marginalized Alec became.

So while it doesn't make a lot of sense it does happen.  I'd be willing to be it happens more than we realize.  I can't watch from 12B to now and not see a vast difference in how Dean is being written.  Skills he once had no longer exist.  He barely competent in fight scenes, his history and experiences have all but been erased. 

That IMO, is not how you write a lead character or one that you have a fondness for.  

Ditto. No one knows what's going on BTS of any show, ever. I don't care what kind of spin is being applied or who it's coming from.

[ILoveReading]

6 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Ditto. No one knows what's going on BTS of any show, ever. I don't care what kind of spin is being applied or who it's coming from.

I didn't have a computer or much online access when Dark Angel was airing  and all I remember watching it was "What the heck is up with the writing for Alec?"  I was very much a fan of Max, Logan and Alec.  So I don't think my conclusion just came from being a personal bias.

It never crossed my mind it was a behind the scenes issue but it was noticeable when compared to the first half of the season.   I was shocked to read about a lot of the stuff that went on.  So it can and does happen even if its a show's detriment.  Especially if the show runner/writer has an ego or a bias.

Bias isn't something that just exists in the fandom.

Edited November 3, 2017 by ILoveReading

[Aeryn13]

Quote

 I love Dean - even when he is occasionally a dick. And that's cool because he has had dick moments the entire series. 

I actually don`t mind this in and of itself. Lots of characters I favour can be dicks, sometimes a lot more than Dean ever has had moments. 

My problem is that nowadays Sam has no flaws. He can be a dick as well but it is never acknowledged, in fact it is validated to kingdom come. And it creates a vs. writing. If you have a show where everyone has flaws, one character doesn`t stand out as the sole village idiot. 

And revisionist history in Dean`s disfavour is just left standing. Sam talks that bullshit about how Dean had it oh-so-good with Mary but Dean isn`t allowed a rebuttal. Now ìt stands not as Sam`s feelings on the matter but the truth.  

Well, once Mary comes back, I hope Sam gets her. And I mean, exactly as shittily as Dean got last year. And when they talk, Sam is only allowed to bring up Dean`s hardships and Mary comments only on those and ignores Sam as a person completely. Please, by all means, let him get exactly this. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by Aeryn13

[Myrelle]

I'm curious to see if after all this character assassination in the first half, if Dean/JA will be gifted with a Trials-like storyline in the second half. And if he'll get to spill his guts about all that Sam has done wrong in their relationship while he's dying in this season's finale. If it's all about balance, then that shouldn't be too much to expect or hope for-but oh wait, this is Dean we're talking about.

I'm sure when Dean finds Cas his grief arc will be over and then they'll go back to writing him as simply disappearing from the screen again-because he's driving somewhere, of course.

Whoopee. Can't wait for that. <insert eye roll here>

[MysteryGuest]

49 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Why not? If they got everyone (or nearly everyone) to switch over to fanboying and worshipping Sam, it would be no problem for them. The writing is surely manipulative enough to tell me 5000 times why I have to abhor mean bully Dean who can`t do anything right and why I should worship Sam Saint Winchester and now Jack Woobie Kline.

But I don't see this happening and it's obviously not working on you or others.  It's certainly not working on me.  The show isn't turning me against Dean and making me see Sam as always right.  I still see Dean as I always have. And over the course of the series, I've definitely been more in tune with Dean's perspective.  And even when he's being a dick, which he can be, it doesn't make me like him any less.  It's just part of who he is.  He's flawed like a real person.

I don't agree that the show has shown Sam in some glowing light this season.  At least not from my perspective.  I think he's been his usual self.  He's quick to judge Dean, and rarely gives him the benefit of the doubt.  He can be condescending, self-righteous and cruel in his words.  At least this is my personal interpretation of Sam's character.  I know that others don't see him that way, and that's why there are Dean fans and Sam fans.  We see them differently based on our own personal experiences and preferences.  But I don't hate Sam.  He annoys me sometimes, just as I'm sure Dean annoys Sam fans.  I also think the show runners know they have two very strong fan bases and they deliberately do things to keep us stirred up.  

I'm not always happy with what they have Dean doing or saying, but Sam has also been shown in a pretty negative light over the years, so I don't really see it as one-sided.  I'll always wish for better writing, but I just don't buy the idea that there's a conspiracy to destroy Dean's character.  

[Aeryn13]

Quote

But I don't see this happening and it's obviously not working on you or others. 

Yeah, well, the more someone tries to shove something down my threat - and isn`t subtle about it - the less I will like it.

Quote

I don't agree that the show has shown Sam in some glowing light this season.  At least not from my perspective.  I think he's been his usual self.  He's quick to judge Dean, and rarely gives him the benefit of the doubt.  He can be condescending, self-righteous and cruel in his words. 

IMO so far this Season the writing went out of its way to portray him in the right, as wise and kind, empathetic and understanding. I actually agree that what you say above are his flaws but unlike Dean who gets dragged for his, Sam is not called out on them. 

When Dean was cruel to Jack, there might have been neon arrows on screen pointing to Dean, saying "what a douchebag" and Jack morphed into a puppy. When Sam says something like "well, Dad worked well on you but me and Jack are better" or "Mom was so nice to you, unlike poor me"... crickets chirping. The writers let that stand because Sam acts as mouthpiece in those situations. The difference in how it is portrayed is stark to me.   

Edited November 3, 2017 by Aeryn13

[ILoveReading]

18 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I don't agree that the show has shown Sam in some glowing light this season.  At least not from my perspective.  I think he's been his usual self.  He's quick to judge Dean, and rarely gives him the benefit of the doubt.  He can be condescending, self-righteous and cruel in his words.  At least this is my personal interpretation of Sam's character.  

I agree with this but the show doesn't seem to or they would allow Dean more than a straw mans argument, and show his POV as sympathetic.    The show was extremely manipulative in how they wrote Jack as being as dangerous as a 3 day old kitten, to completely downplay Dean's "he will go evil."   It's not a nature vs nurture debate if the writers already decided nurture before pen even hit paper.

When Sam is called out on his behavior we get a big long scene of Sam explaining that yeah he is using Jack but he still cares about him too.   With Dean he just got more blamed dumped on his shoulders from the grief counselor.  Dean was the only character this ep to get no exploration in that area.  If they can't even give Dean's grief arc focus in an episode that is supposed to be about grief, is it really something the writers are interested in anyway?

Sam also never aplogized to Dean this ep or acknowledged his actions in regards to Dean and I doubt it ever will since Dean is now put back in his place.

They didn't have Sam apologize which means the writers see nothing wrong with Sams' behaviour or how he treated Dean.  It was just mean bossy Dean. 

There were 3 bloggers I follow that all tweeted Sam needed to punch Dean, Sam needed to kick Dean's ass, and Sam needed to set Deans' straight.  These are supposed to be unbiased reporters.  But they all sided with Sam.  Giving Dean the benefit of the doubt seems to be few and far between.  

It really stuck me this morning about why this whole grief thing isn't working, other than no one showed Dean any empathy.

The arc was not about exploring Dean's grief.  It explored how Dean's grief inconvenienced others. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by ILoveReading

[Aeryn13]

Quote

There were 3 bloggers I follow that all tweeted Sam needed to punch Dean, Sam needed to kick Dean's ass, and Sam needed to set Deans' straight.  These are supposed to be unbiased reporters.  But they all sided with Sam.  Giving Dean the benefit of the doubt seems to be few and far between.  

Because that is not how it was written. If the writers wanted Dean to have a valid or sympathetic point, he would have.  

Quote

The arc was not about exploring Dean's grief.  It explored how Dean's grief inconvenienced others. 

For the five millionth time in the show. For God`s sake, we got a variation of "your feelings are inconvenient and wrong, learn your lesson" LAST Season.   

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Diane said:

Because that is not what they are saying, you are watching this through an obviously very biased lens.  There are a lot of us that don't see it that way at all.  Just because you want to believe it doesn't make it true. This is not the Dean show, this is a show about 2 brothers Sam & Dean.  This is the show that I am watching. 

The show IS about Sam and his brother Dean and their friends and family but it hasn't been ONLY Dean and Sam since 1A when John finally showed up and further in s2 when important recurring supporting characters were introduced like Bobby, Ellen, Jo, and Ruby. The 'brothers only" or "I like both brothers equally" bias is no different than those who prefer Dean or Sam or Cas and some seem to like Jack the best now. We all watch through our own lenses. I'm reticent to say that any of us have ownership to 'what the show is about'.

[MysteryGuest]

4 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I agree with this but the show doesn't seem to or they would allow Dean more than a straw mans argument, and show his POV as sympathetic.    The show was extremely manipulative in how they wrote Jack as being as dangerous as a 3 day old kitten, to completely downplay Dean's "he will go evil."   It's not a nature vs nurture debate if the writers already decided nurture before pen even hit paper.

They didn't have Sam apologize which means the writers see nothing wrong with Sams' behaviour or how he treated Dean.  It was just mean bossy Dean. 

There were 3 bloggers I follow that all tweeted Sam needed to punch Dean, Sam needed to kick Dean's ass, and Sam needed to set Deans' straight.  These are supposed to be unbiased reporters.  But they all sided with Sam.  Giving Dean the benefit of the doubt seems to be few and far between.  

It really stuck me this morning about why this whole grief thing isn't working, other than no one showed Dean any empathy.

The arc was not about exploring Dean's grief.  It explored how Dean's grief inconvenienced others. 

I agree that as Jack's character has been written so far, Dean's being hell bent to kill him seems out of place.  But I don't see that as a flaw in Dean's character, I see it as bad writing.  Jack is Lucifer's son, and I have to assume the whole reason for introducing this new character (other than giving the younger audience something to squee about) was to add the "will he or won't he" drama to the show.  So far, they haven't been very successful at that, but I will be stunned if Jack's character remains the same and never ventures to the dark side, even if only for a while.  If they were better writers, I think they could keep us guessing as to Jack's true nature to build up the suspense, but I don't think they're nuanced enough for that.  So instead I think we'll get lulled into thinking Jack is good and then for some reason he'll flip.  If they never intend to show him as a threat, then what's the point?

As for the bloggers you mentioned, they may try to stay neutral, but my guess is they're not really.  At no time while watching these first 4 episodes did I ever think that Sam needed to kick Dean's ass or set him straight.  Not once.  I think both of their perspectives were laid out for us pretty clearly, and sympathetically.  They each had valid points and still do.  I guess I just don't care that much what other people think.  I watch the show because I enjoy it, and so far at least, I'm liking this season more than I thought I would.  If I were going to allow other people's opinions to sway me from even watching an episode, then what's the point of following the show? Even in some of the worst episodes, there's usually something I can find worth seeing.  We all watch for different reasons.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Even in some of the worst episodes, there's usually something I can find worth seeing. 

For me the show has now produced several episodes where not a single second is worth it. Among these I would count Fallen Idols, 5.22, the Zanna episode, Red Meat, a good bunch of 8.B and 9.A episodes, several episodes of last Season. Like, nothing, not one moment I found enjoyable but lots I found enraging. 

Now this last episode has the Empty content which I`m pretty neutral about. And maybe the final moment between Dean and Jack. But the content otherwise was so enraging, overall I did not think it was worth subjecting myself to it. 

[Bobcatkitten]

God I loved the Zanna episode. It was so funny. So many awesome scenes and lines. 

Honestly I think if you watch the episode through a lens of "how are they screwing Dean/Sam" then you are probably pretty regularly not going to enjoy episodes. I just watch them differently. It's just entertainment. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by scribe95

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Honestly I think if you watch the episode through a lens of "how are they screwing Dean/Sam" then you are probably pretty regularly not going to enjoy episodes. 

At this point, I can`t not somewhat cringe in expectation of things to come. The show has "delivered" too many times. 

In the last 5ish years of the show I had four good surprises:  1) First Born in Season 9 - not in a million years did I think Dean would get a real plotline at that point, 2) the connection to Amara in 11.01 - pretty much for the same reason, 3) that the resolution of Amara/MOC wasn`t somehow handed to Sam at the final hour and 4) Regarding Dean, I expected another humiliation porn episode like Yellow Fever but the humour was actually not at the character`s expense for a change. 

So it is possible. Just incredibly rare. 

[Diane]

37 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

God I loved the Zanna episode. It was so funny. So many awesome scenes and lines. 

Honestly I think if you watch the episode through a lens of "how are they screwing Dean/Sam" then you are probably pretty regularly not going to enjoy episodes. I just watch them differently. It's just entertainment. 

So completely true, it seems some people are watching the episode with the attitude that this sucks before it has even started. If you are that negative going in, you are sure to be disappointed. Oh well fortunately there are more of us that like the show than hate it. 

[catrox14]

53 minutes ago, Diane said:

So completely true, it seems some people are watching the episode with the attitude that this sucks before it has even started. If you are that negative going in, you are sure to be disappointed. Oh well fortunately there are more of us that like the show than hate it. 

Having criticisms of the show, issues with the writing and character handling =/= hating the show. As far as being predisposed to not liking something, IMO, there is precedence that has gone before that leads to some pre viewing angst. FOR ALL THE CHARACTERS. I see it from Sam, Dean, and Cas fans in equal measure. If viewers read spoilers they may have worries as to the outcome for the characters. Many times my worries were confirmed and many times they were not at all and things were the opposite of what I feared.  Like my freak out over Demon!Dean's arrival. I was literally going to quit the show after that, but the stuff I heard from Jensen about how he was excited to play demon!Dean kept me on board. And it turned out that I loved it and then was pissed that it ended so soon. 

I do hate what I think Dabb is doing with Dean and to a lesser extent Castiel since he officially took over the show.  They have both been regressed and thrown under the bus for plot in the guise of "character moments" like Dean's grief was kind of not really about Dean in the end but how Dean's grief was hurting other people. And because he wasn't willing to work with the Devil's Spawn that made him the villain for like 3 episodes. No one warned me that was how it was gonna go. I didn't get that from any spoilers either. I got one hint when Singer tugged Dean's ear like a bad boy at SDCC but I tried to ignore it. But that came to pass in the end after all.

For Castiel's part, well that just sucks eggs. In s12, Castiel was made to look both duplicitous and foolish in s12 with Jack which is pretty hard to manage but Dabb did it.

Sam, IMO thus far has been shown to be a bit foolish with the BMOL but he did get to kill them and became a leader so his foolishness was basically redeemed. IMO, thus far, with Jack, even if he does go dark side, I think Sam escapes looking foolish because he was shown doing the "right" thing in the narrative by showing Jack support. He stopped pushing Jack on his powers so it showed that Sam learned to back off. Sam got to express his issues with Mary, if via some revisionist on screen history, he was able to say his peace and the narrative rewarded him by having the therapist support Sam and Jack whilst shaming Dean. So IMO right now Sam and Jack are looking pretty good.

[Diane]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Having criticisms of the show, issues with the writing and character handling =/= hating the show. As far as being predisposed to not liking something, IMO, there is precedence that has gone before that leads to some pre viewing angst. FOR ALL THE CHARACTERS. I see it from Sam, Dean, and Cas fans in equal measure. If viewers read spoilers they may have worries as to the outcome for the characters. Many times my worries were confirmed and many times they were not at all and things were the opposite of what I feared.  Like my freak out over Demon!Dean's arrival. I was literally going to quit the show after that, but the stuff I heard from Jensen about how he was excited to play demon!Dean kept me on board. And it turned out that I loved it and then was pissed that it ended so soon. 

I do hate what I think Dabb is doing with Dean and to a lesser extent Castiel since he officially took over the show.  They have both been regressed and thrown under the bus for plot in the guise of "character moments" like Dean's grief was kind of not really about Dean in the end but how Dean's grief was hurting other people. And because he wasn't willing to work with the Devil's Spawn that made him the villain for like 3 episodes. No one warned me that was how it was gonna go. I didn't get that from any spoilers either. I got one hint when Singer tugged Dean's ear like a bad boy at SDCC but I tried to ignore it. But that came to pass in the end after all.

For Castiel's part, well that just sucks eggs. In s12, Castiel was made to look both duplicitous and foolish in s12 with Jack which is pretty hard to manage but Dabb did it.

Sam, IMO thus far has been shown to be a bit foolish with the BMOL but he did get to kill them and became a leader so his foolishness was basically redeemed. IMO, thus far, with Jack, even if he does go dark side, I think Sam escapes looking foolish because he was shown doing the "right" thing in the narrative by showing Jack support. He stopped pushing Jack on his powers so it showed that Sam learned to back off. Sam got to express his issues with Mary, if via some revisionist on screen history, he was able to say his peace and the narrative rewarded him by having the therapist support Sam and Jack whilst shaming Dean. So IMO right now Sam and Jack are looking pretty good.

When I read the constant negativity before the episode has even aired, then yes I stand by my comment. Those that have said they are not going to like it before they have watched tells me all I need to know. I mean we have a thread now that is dedicated to bitching about the episode before it airs.  So yes I believe that it is hard to enjoy a good episode after being so negative.  IMO.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Diane

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Diane said:

When I read the constant negativity before the episode has even aired, then yes I stand by my comment. Those that have said they are not going to like it before they have watched tells me all I need to know. 

 Confirmation bias is always a possibility no matter the bias. I was just saying that biases doesn't mean hatred for the show in general. But that's JMHO.

[Aeryn13]

I actually did expect this episode to be much better and much more sympathetic to Dean. I expected the grief councellor angle to get his issues out in a more organic way, not making him the shamed bully to the two woobies. I did expect him to be a competent hunter and not be knocked out offscreen like noob nr.37. 

Because Glynn wrote this episode and I liked her last Season, I was going in with much less apprehension than I would have if it had been Dabb or Perez or Bucklemming. So I ended up being blindsided how much this sucked. It was basically the same construct as Fallen Idols used to shame Dean into submission. I hated it then and I hate it now.

The Mary thing honestly shocked me. Do those writers really believe she treated Dean well? And was warm and fluffy and kind to him? She basically ignored him even when he was in front of her to fret about Sam. She broke out of her dream state only when Dean talked about Sam`s hardships. She never asked Dean a single question or showed interest in him as a person for one single moment. She was overall horrible to Sam also but at least she mused about his College days once. Dean never even registered on her me-me-me radar. And yet now we have successfully retconned Season 12 into wonderful Mary and ungrateful Dean.

I NEVER would have expected such a thing from Glynn. I thought she liked the character of Dean. 

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I NEVER would have expected such a thing from Glynn. I thought she liked the character of Dean. 

I thought Glynn did pretty poorly writing Dean in the Hitler episode but he got to kill Hitler so..I just ignored it. Regarding Dean was strong for Jensen to play a different kind of Dean but he still had the kind of typical Dean crappy tropes like getting slapped by a waitress and him thinking he must have deserved it on some level but generally it wasn't bad for Dean other than him losing his memories etc, but he did get to shoot the witch so, yay? Still not complaining because it was good for Jensen to stretch his muscles.

She wrote Ladies Drink Free which I had hope for being a good Dean episode  because he wanted Claire to not use the cure and live but NOPE, that was Dean being bossy and not respecting her choices. At that point I sideeyed Glynn a bit more but figured it was just because it was a plotty episode. Then with 12.19 with Berens, Dean was pretty good and sympathetic but also kind of a hardass to Cas because he was worried and upset but Sam gives Dean the tsk tsk face and then Cas played Dean and Sam. 

I don't know why this show can't write good things for one character without diminishing another to do it and not go SO OTT like in Red Meat.

[Reganne]

15 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

The Mary thing honestly shocked me. Do those writers really believe she treated Dean well? And was warm and fluffy and kind to him? She basically ignored him even when he was in front of her to fret about Sam. She broke out of her dream state only when Dean talked about Sam`s hardships. She never asked Dean a single question or showed interest in him as a person for one single moment. She was overall horrible to Sam also but at least she mused about his College days once. Dean never even registered on her me-me-me radar. And yet now we have successfully retconned Season 12 into wonderful Mary and ungrateful Dean.

I NEVER would have expected such a thing from Glynn. I thought she liked the character of Dean. 

I can understand why Sam would feel the way he does about the Mary situation.  While it's true that she didn't have the perfect or deep relationship with Dean and she was distant with him as well, she had more interaction with him.  This could partly be due to the fact that he was more persistent in keeping in touch with Mary while Sam decided to give Mary more space (which is what he thought she wanted)  I mean, the only time we see her call Sam was when Dean was angry with her and wouldn't take her calls in the Raid.  Even her "I love you" to Sam was sent through Dean a time or two.  "Tell Sam I love him".... Heck, even when she was in trouble with the BMOL and called Dean twice and couldn't get a hold of him, she still didn't even think to try and call Sam.

And I have to disagree about how Mary broke out of her dream state.  She didn't truly come out of her dream state until after Dean's speech of saying "I hate you and I love you because you're my mom... I can't help it" and after Dean asked her to look at him and to see him.  The moment she looked at him and saw him and said "Dean" was the moment when she truly broke out of the dream state.

As far as her not taking interest in Dean, she bonded with him over pie and past meals she had fed him as a child as Sam watched.  She made conversation about things she could remember from when he was a little boy.  She also sat next to him in the impala and turned up his music while Sam sat in the back.  Dean and Mary also had a conversation that seemed to last all night as Dean told her his story when she first arrived.  The way the sky went from dark to light indicates they talked for a long while and this was time (perhaps hours) she spent with Dean to listen to what he had to say and where she wasn't saying "Hey, I should go meet Sam now or What about Sam?"  Now I agree that she shouldn't necessarily be like that because it's nice that she took the time to talk with Dean and pay attention to what he was saying, but I think it goes to show that she wasn't solely concerned about Sam and that she was taking the time to interact with Dean.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Reganne

[AwesomO4000]

14 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Yes, really. I'm including walking away under that umbrella of giving up, and I think Sam did that a number of times. At the least, he showed that moving on was something he was far more capable of than Dean (right or wrong). So yeah, it was more in-character for Sam to do it than Dean, for whom I believe it is completely and utterly out of character.

Except that Sam learned this lesson over season 4 ("Afterschool Special" and "Jump the Shark") and throughout season 5 concluding with "Dark Side..." and "Point of No Return" where Sam even outright says, extremely sincerely, "And I was wrong every time I did." (meaning leave; emphasis Sam's). All through season 6.5 and 7, I didn't see Sam even hinting that he wanted to leave full time (minor tiff over Amy notwithstanding, and Sam admitted Dean was right about that and compromised to return to Dean), and just like in much of season 5 he said how much he needed Dean. We had "Time After Time" - a situation very similar to the end of season 7 - where Sam did everything he could to get Dean back.

So do I think Sam's behavior in season 8 was completely out of character for Sam in general? No. Do I think it was completely out of character for Sam post season 7? Hell yeah. Even more so because of the lesson Sam had learned through season 4 and 7 which to me makes Sam repeating the mistake even more out of character for having learned and verbally admitting he'd learned the lesson and living that learning the lesson throughout season 6.5 through 7.

To me, I would say Carver having Sam do this all over again was partially to thumb his nose at Gamble's character development in season 6 and 7, but Carver wrote "Point of No Return" with Sam saying - and meaning - how wrong he was to have left Dean "every time"... so in my opinion, maybe Carver was purposely - and in my opinion unfairly - dragging Sam's character back to early season 1 mode just so Sam could learn this lesson allllll over again - sometimes humiliatingly - throughout seasons 8 - 10 culminating in Sam "learning" (again) that he wanted to hunt and that he couldn't imagine himself doing that without Dean by his side. Maybe that is Carver's "kink" / thing? Sam learning how awesome Dean and family is? Otherwise I got nothing as to why he repeated that whole thing.

I also somewhat disagree that it would be entirely out of character for Dean to walk away. Early on, yes, but actually, in my opinion, Dean post season 4 was more willing to walk away than Sam was. He did it twice in season 5 ("The End" and "Point of No Return") both times not intending to return to Sam until other circumstances intervened. Granted Dean also was less inclined to walk away in season 6 and 7, but it isn't like he never did before either. Dean has also had his moments of losing hope.. so all these setbacks making Dean lose a little hope to me isn't entirely out of character. Even when it comes to Castiel, since he did lose some hope (understandably) in early season 7 as well for a bit.

So for me Sam not giving up on Mary is very in character after Sam having had to learn that lesson painfully twice now.

Quote

I am 100% fine with Sam learning his lesson and not giving up on her. I want him to be that way. Yay for Sam! But there was absolutely no need for them to throw Dean under that same bus in order to do it.  That's what's pissing me off so much. It was completely unnecessary for Dean to be on the other side of this, grief-stricken or not. It served no purpose, IMO, except to let Sam fans feel better about what they did to him in S8. That one line, along with Sam's pregnant pause convinces me of it.

Though I don't necessarily agree this is what is happening, I understand your feeling this way, because it's how I felt through much of season 8 and 9 concerning what they did to Sam's character. I didn't think it was necessary for them to throw Sam's character under the bus then either.

13 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I actually agree that what you say above are his flaws but unlike Dean who gets dragged for his, Sam is not called out on them. 

Except when he does - which is a lot, in my opinion. How often did we hear about Sam's "bad choices" after season 4? So many times, from many characters. Dean's bad choices in season 9 - nope. Not even Sam's "The Purge" rant - brutal as it was - really called Dean's actual bad choices out. And no other characters - that I remember - did either. Instead we got God saying "ehn, Dean making choices that ultimately turned him into a demon, no big deal, but Sam... his bad choices screwed up the world."

So I guess I don't see Sam generally not being called out like you do or Dean always being dragged for his flaws. I see both getting called out or not depending on the writer, story throughline, or plot. For me it's an equal opportunity throwing-under-the-bus depending on the writers' whim, mood, whatever.

(Admittedly, I have not seen the last two episodes yet. Busy, and I'm kind of hoping to binge through what sounds like Sam being reverted to being a jerk again to end with an episode of hopefully better behavior later. I'm not holding my breath though, because it could end up like season 9 again where things look like they are going "Sam's way," but in the end he actually learns the error of his ways.)

12 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

that the resolution of Amara/MOC wasn`t somehow handed to Sam at the final hour

Interesting. I had no doubt that it would be Dean, just as I had no doubt that Sam removing the mark from Dean would lead to very bad things (because we can't have Sam save Dean for once without it being a very bad thing, I guess).

There were a few surprises for me in the last 5 seasons, but they were mostly not good ones. Sam not looking for Dean and abandoning Kevin being the worst, followed closely by that awful "The Purge" speech and whatever the hell that was the second half of season 9.

The good surprise: I actually enjoyed much of season 10 despite Sam getting thrown under the bus at the end... Ditto season 11, which I liked even more despite... well Sam sort of getting thrown under the bus at the end again. (interesting that I disliked the only two seasons in the past 5 seasons where Sam actually had an active plot arc - the trials and Gadreel (sort of, since that was also a Gadreel plot) - and preferred the ones where he didn't have one. I don't count season 12, because Sam's arc - to me - made little sense.)

Edited November 4, 2017 by AwesomO4000

[ILoveReading]

http://hunenka.tumblr.com/post/167116247929/its-very-misleading-to-say-that-deans-way-of

This sums up my feelings on Dean's whole grief (non) arc. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I can understand why Sam would feel the way he does about the Mary situation.  While it's true that she didn't have the perfect or deep relationship with Dean and she was distant with him as well, she had more interaction with him.  

I`m not sure that works out with the Raid. If any interaction counts and not just positive one, that counts for Mary and Sam as well. 

But what bugs me is that Dean reached out and tried and tried last Season. And Sam bitched at him over and over again over not giving Mary enough space this and being too critical that. Yet now that she is gone somehow it is so unfair that ungrateful Dean had Mary all to himself. Sam could have done it just the same way Dean did - though that would have made him a hypocrite by his own standards last Season. But it would have given him the relationship he now bemoans Dean had and Sam didn`t. 

If Sam regrets that he stepped back last year now, fine, but don`t turn it around on Dean. It`s not his fucking fault. 

Sam does this often and it drives me up walls. During Season 4 he is increasingly about weak Dean who can`t handle things and how he, strong, powered-up Sam has to. It doesn`t work out to his liking and wam, beginning of Season 5 it was actually about bully Dean driving Sam into Ruby`s arms. Well, which is it, was he weak or did he bully you, Sam?

Even as far back as Season 1 when Sam learned about Dean having told a girlfriend about the hunting life and going "for years I lied to Jessica and you..." in an accusatory tone. WTH? Back in the Pilot Sam defended his right and his choice to tell Jessica whatever he did or didn`t want. What Dean told people has no bearing on that. He never even said "don`t tell people the truth", his stance was not getting too attached to civilians so at some point you would feel compelled to tell them the truth. 

Whenever something doesn`t work out the way Sam wanted it, he rephrases and recontextualizes that so somehow it seems to be the fault of other people, mostly Dean because he is the one there most of the time and/or that he became the victim of others wrong reactions and actions.

So if Sam feels that way about Mary now, then he can blame himself and most importantly Mary but bitching to Dean about it was way out of line. He wasn`t willing to do what Dean did last year to get the  scraps of the "relationship" Dean had with Mary, that is Sam`s problem and only his problem. Acting like anything with Mary just fell in Dean`s lap with no effort? Wow.       

And it bugs me that the show always lets it stand like that and never offers a valid rebuttal to Sam. He is perfectly welcome to have that kind of "relationship" with Mary that he covets but if he thinks that is gonna be an effortless one-way-street from someone as self-involved and cold as Mary, sorry but nope. 

[DeeDee79]

46 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

http://hunenka.tumblr.com/post/167116247929/its-very-misleading-to-say-that-deans-way-of

This sums up my feelings on Dean's whole grief (non) arc. 

Thanks for the link!

[ILoveReading]

Brought over from the bitterness spoiler thread with the spoiler part removed.

Quote

Kevin recognised that the demons working for Crowley weren’t Sam and Dean because they were far too nice and civil to be the brothers ;)

I don't deny that Dean can be an asshat at times, and the brothers treatment of Kevin left a lot to be desired.  But the show never tried to tell me that Dean and Kevin have a bond.

The fact that Dean's main clue as to why his family isn't themselves is that they;re too nice, it's one of the many reasons why I stopped believing in so-called brother bond.

Edited November 4, 2017 by ILoveReading

[DeeDee79]

24 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I don't deny that Dean can be an asshat at times, and the brothers treatment of Kevin left a lot to be desired.  But the show never tried to tell me that Dean and Kevin have a bond.

I didn't feel that there was a bond between Kevin and either brother tbh. I can't deny that they cared about him but Kevin was more or less stuck with them because of his situation so it's understandable that there wasn't more of a relationship there. Just IMO.

[Reganne]

25 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I`m not sure that works out with the Raid. If any interaction counts and not just positive one, that counts for Mary and Sam as well. 

But what bugs me is that Dean reached out and tried and tried last Season. And Sam bitched at him over and over again over not giving Mary enough space this and being too critical that. Yet now that she is gone somehow it is so unfair that ungrateful Dean had Mary all to himself. Sam could have done it just the same way Dean did - though that would have made him a hypocrite by his own standards last Season. But it would have given him the relationship he now bemoans Dean had and Sam didn`t. 

If Sam regrets that he stepped back last year now, fine, but don`t turn it around on Dean. It`s not his fucking fault. 

So if Sam feels that way about Mary now, then he can blame himself and most importantly Mary but bitching to Dean about it was way out of line. He wasn`t willing to do what Dean did last year to get the  scraps of the "relationship" Dean had with Mary, that is Sam`s problem and only his problem. Acting like anything with Mary just fell in Dean`s lap with no effort? Wow.       

And it bugs me that the show always lets it stand like that and never offers a valid rebuttal to Sam. He is perfectly welcome to have that kind of "relationship" with Mary that he covets but if he thinks that is gonna be an effortless one-way-street from someone as self-involved and cold as Mary, sorry but nope. 

The Raid was the only time Mary even took the opportunity to contact Sam and that was when Dean was mad at her and wouldn't take her calls.  In the therapy session, that is exactly what Sam said.  That Mary always called Dean so regardless of why it happened, he's not exactly wrong. The fact that that was the ONLY time she thought to call him is a little sad to me and I thought it last season before this episode.  Like, she couldn't be bothered before but now since Dean isn't taking her calls... then she might as well call him.  Then when Dean is talking with her again, she continues to only contact Dean.  Even after Sam (most likely in an attempt to forge some kind of relationship with her) joins the BMOL.  

 

He never blamed Dean for his lack of relationship with Mary.  He said that's why he has to hold onto hope that Mary is alive because otherwise he has to believe he'll never have that relationship with her.  I don't recall him saying it was Dean's fault.  Just because he got upset with Dean, that doesn't mean he thinks it's Dean fault.  He got upset because Dean called him delusional and then went into a spiel about why he was keeping his thoughts the way they were.  

 

As far as interactions in the Raid, on top of what I have already said.... it was mostly business with Mary and Sam.  It was her introducing him to the BMOL because Dean wouldn't talk to her.  Yes, it was a bit of an interaction, but hardly anything to write home about IMO.  She wanted to get him on board with what she was doing in an attempt to make amends with the boys. 

And I also don't remember Sam telling Dean not to contact Mary.  I think Sam was merely trying to look at things from Mary's perspective and saying she needs time to adjust.  To me, those are two different things.  Sam did what he thought his mother wanted of him and put away his feelings on the matter to try and maintain a decent relationship with her... which lets be honest, he never did with John and has said in the past he felt guilty for it.  I think the therapy session proves that Sam was bottling up his feelings last season and this season and it was nice to finally see some of it coming out.  He has been really zen and chill about everything lately.