S12.E15: Alpha Male

[Guest]

Quote

The BAU investigates when several young men and women are victims of disfiguring acid attacks. Also, Dr. Reid begins to settle into his new surroundings.

[Willowy]

Here's the preview. They'd better not hurt him. >:(

[Bookish Jen]

14 minutes ago, Franky said:

Here's the preview. They'd better not hurt him. >:(

 

Or we'll hurt back. I may be little, but I can also be spunky and feisty when necessary.

[Willowy]

Also, I read about the acid thing and thought I remembered when I was a wee lass there was an episode of Barbaby Jones that terrified me, where some woman was blinded by acid. Sure enough:

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I know the show 'is what it is', but this continually hopping back-n-forth between UCotW and Reid is going to be sooo tedious. 

Dear EM and writers;  please quit trying to make me believe these individual cases actually mean something in the long narrative and just give me continual coverage of Reid's situation, plus some scenes of the team reacting to his situation - & *gasp* maybe even doing everything they can to find Lewis and clear Reid - and don't stop.  These UCotW are (most likely) just going to bore me to death while waiting for more scenes from the storyline that actually matters.

Edited February 28, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[ReidFan]

the sad thing is, the cases *might* be interesting, but I believe anyone who's much of a Reid fan just clearly doesn't care as much/at all about <whatever> case until Reid is cleared and reinstated. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

9 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

the sad thing is, the cases *might* be interesting, but I believe anyone who's much of a Reid fan just clearly doesn't care as much/at all about <whatever> case until Reid is cleared and reinstated. 

Agreed, and mostly what I meant.  Because of the intense focus on Reid & his situation, its hard to summon the effort to care about 'periphery stuff'.

[Willowy]

2 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

I know the show 'is what it is', but this continually hopping back-n-forth between UCotW and Reid is going to be sooo tedious. 

Dear EM and writers;  please quit trying to make me believe these individual cases actually mean something in the long narrative and just give me continual coverage of Reid's situation, plus some scenes of the team reacting to his situation - & *gasp* maybe even doing everything they can to find Lewis and clear Reid - and don't stop.  These UCotW are (most likely) just going to bore me to death while waiting for more scenes from the storyline that actually matters.

You know, I agree! This is the most important arc they've done in a long while... but I guess I do understand the why of it. If it was just a few episodes, I could see them doing it, but the back 9? That would definitely be The Reid Show, and while I love him like nobody else ever, I'm not sure the show could sustain that. The BAU has to have something else to do, to make what's happening to Reid seem even more important. By seeing that they continue to do their jobs, they assure that they'll still be able to continue to help Reid.  Does that make sense? 

[Willowy]

Oh baby. D:

[Danielg342]

It does add realism that the team would continue working while Reid is AWOL, but I also think doing this for the whole back nine is overkill. At the very least, Reid should be out on bail working with the team while his case hangs in the background- that way we're not messing with the CM format too much.

Either that or just make all back nine episodes about Reid- it'd make for more focused storytelling, at least.

[MMC]

2 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

It does add realism that the team would continue working while Reid is AWOL, but I also think doing this for the whole back nine is overkill. At the very least, Reid should be out on bail working with the team while his case hangs in the background- that way we're not messing with the CM format too much.

Either that or just make all back nine episodes about Reid- it'd make for more focused storytelling, at least.

I like the way you think. The downside would be having to listen to the complaints about how this isn't the Reid show. Heck we are already getting some of that now.

[CrimeFan12]

5 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

It does add realism that the team would continue working while Reid is AWOL, but I also think doing this for the whole back nine is overkill. At the very least, Reid should be out on bail working with the team while his case hangs in the background- that way we're not messing with the CM format too much.

Either that or just make all back nine episodes about Reid- it'd make for more focused storytelling, at least.

Even if Reid did get out on bail, I highly doubt he would be working any cases with the team.  Odds would be that the bureau would suspend him indefinitely until the outcome of his trial.  They wouldn't let any agent who is going to be tried for murder to work any active cases.  It would threaten the integrity of the cases and open the outcomes of them to lawsuits. I would rather watch Reid dealing with his not thought through decisions and the team juggling doing their jobs by working cases while trying to clear his name.  I like the mixture of both.

[SSAHotchner]

So, for the first time this season I watched the episode while it aired instead of either just deleting it from my DVR or checking it out later to see how the Reid story was going. I wish I could have gotten interested in the case, but I was more concerned with what was going on with Reid in prison. To me it feels like the writers are trying to make the newbies more interesting. They're trying to eek out details about their lives prior to joining the BAU and humanize them all more, but it's kind of falling flat for me. And because I was watching live, I couldn't fast forward through the annoying Garcia scenes. You know, Hotch would have stopped her in the middle of her ranting and carrying on about how great she is, how difficult her job is, how disgusted she is by the things she has to see on the internet while researching for the cases, etc., etc. and told her to focus on the job and give him the answer he needed. Season 1-4 she was one of my very favorite members of the team. Now I can't stand her. And did anyone else get the impression in that last scene with Prentiss that Prentiss kept glancing down at Garcia's cleavage. It was almost kind of funny, like she was  being distracted by it. Anyway, it wasn't the worst case or the worst unsub they've had but it really didn't hold my interest. I don't know if these actors just aren't good enough to hold it together with the mediocre writing or if none of them really cares about the show. It often felt flat, robotic, even the "we all care about what happens to Reid" didn't ring true for all. 

I am still interested in what they're doing to/with Reid for the rest of this arc. Other than that, I don't really care if the show goes on past this season. Until the Reid arc, I really haven't watched anyway. 

[isiscloud]

Garcia definitely needs some grounding and growth. She's been stuck in this character for the whole show and hasn't been able to grow. Watching the episode where we see that she does theater outside of work was nice and see her volunteer work with victims, and she has a boyfriend. But, I would like to see some work-growth. 

I am interested in seeing where the Reid story goes, and hope it wraps up the Scratch story line as well. It's not the worst arc or arch-nemesis (that would be The Replicator), but it's time to get that together and move on. 

Loved hearing the reference to MAC machines. Definitely a time warp and nice triangulation of the bar where he was going to make the attack. 

[Danielg342]

You know, my first thought about the episode was that "this wasn't as much as an eye-roller as I thought it would be".

I mean, it would be easy to just dismiss "the manosphere" as a bunch of misogynistic, simple-minded troglodytes, and, well...the show kind of did.

...but there was a bit of exploration. At least the show got into why these troglodytes act the way they do- frustration.

I mean, it's not much of a second dimension...but, it's still a second dimension.

So I have to applaud the writer for that.

Even still, I'm not convinced this was really an exploration...the tone of the episode really said "these men are troglodytes" and there was not much of an attempt to really humanize their struggles. It's as if the writer decided "these men are monsters" but, at the last minute, felt like adding a motivation for them would make them "relatable" and less one-dimensional, but it just felt flat.

Yeah, I know...humanizing people that think the "B-word" is regular parlance is a pretty tough task but...in the earlier seasons, they would have done it. They would have tried to understand why they think the way that they do, gaining a greater insight into the criminal's mind.

You know...actually profiling.

To illustrate, the show name-dropped Elliott Rodger quite a bit, noting that he lashed out at couples for having something that he didn't.

What they didn't talk about was how Rodger felt that he was deserving of a woman because he was "such a nice guy" and felt that, because of it, women should be lining up to be with him.

In essence, Rodger was the whole personification of the "a-holes vs. nice guys" dichotomy that so permeates dating culture, one that tells men the conflicting "truths" that women go for a-holes but truly want nice guys, reminding them that there are "scores of women" who wonder why they keep falling for the a-holes and not "the nice guys".

So...where was that during the episode? Where was the discussion about the mythic "friend-zone" that the manosphere often talks about? Where was the discussion about how the manosphere feels "feminism is trying to control sexual encounters" thus "denying" men their "rightful amount of sex"?

Heck, where was the discussion about Internet feminism and its potential role in cultivating the ideas of the manosphere? I don't think we heard the F-word once, and it's a big part of that discussion.

Then there's the fact that Rodger posted on a website dedicated to bashing pick-up artists, a fact that even the real media largely ignored. People like Rodger were heavily influenced by the early 2000s cavalcade of "seduction gurus" like Mystery and David DeAngelo, who told them they could have whatever woman they wanted- provided they "programmed" them first.

Why didn't the episode delve into that, with the UnSub frustrated that the lies PUAs feed him just don't work? I think bringing back The Viper and having him be a red herring would have been fun, but apparently that's too much for the writer to think up.

I could go...but...point is...

This episode proved to me why the "A+B" plots just don't work. This episode had so many great ideas that they could have used to really give this case some justice but, because Reid's story had to be shoehorned in here, they just didn't have the space to really delve into it.

Not to say that A+B couldn't work...you just shouldn't use such a huge and diverse topic as your "A" if you won't devote the time to develop it. Keep it simple.

As for Reid...it really did feel like a lot of things happened "just for drama's sake", like how he nearly got beaten up by the other white men in his cell. I also wonder why he was so readily taken out of protective custody...that decision seemed arbitrary.

...but, Harold Perrineau was nice. He bonded very well with Reid and I hope those two have a future outside of this arc.

Didn't make up for the fact that this episode of Reid was just filler, and I'm not sure how much of it I can take if it's supposed to go on like this for the entire back nine.

Episode Grade: D-. So much stuff, so little time to show it and so much wasted.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Danielg342

[DNOMAD]

looks like reed is going to have to pull a shawshank

[Willowy]

2 minutes ago, DNOMAD said:

looks like reed is going to have to pull a shawshank

Yup. Exactly what I brought up over at ITV.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Just as I predicted, the UCotW just did nothing for me.  Guy who isn't the most attractive and awkward, isn't loved like he wants so takes it out on others..... sorta like how we've seen that exact type of UnSub like a thousand times already on this show;  as for example, those same type of stressors set off the UnSub in literally just last week's ep.

And it occurred to me while watching - after so damned long of seeing it 20+ times a season for 11+ of them - it never fails that the UnSub always 'devolves' and 'escalates' just after the team has arrived and started the legwork into the case.  A.l.w.a.y.s.  [ok, maybe 99.99% of the time, but close enough to make my point]

Reid is my all-time favorite character on this show, but I have agree with a sentiment from above, if the next string of episodes is basically spent watching interspersed scenes of him trying to avoid getting beaten or shanked in prison - while making nice with his former-Fed buddy - its going to run out of the impactful effectiveness sooner than later.

I think the prison guard is under Scratch's influence as well as last week's judge.  Too 'convenient' that both were so hardcore anti-Reid right from the get-go and the whole time.  Singling him out right away and threatening to put Reid's life in danger by ratting him out as a Fed?  Just because??   Doesn't ring too true.

Edited March 4, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[secnarf]

9 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

I think the prison guard is under Scratch's influence as well as last week's judge.  Too 'convenient' that both were so hardcore anti-Reid right from the get-go and the whole time.  Singling him out right away and threatening to put Reid's life in danger by ratting him out as a Fed?  Just because??   Doesn't ring too true.

This was my thought as well, but I don't think them being under Scratch's influence rings 'true' either.

It's just a few too many suspensions of disbelief for me.

I watched an absolutely riveting hour of X Company, then got quite a bit of work done when CM came on, only half-paid attention, and didn't care about what was happening. It did feel like the case was solved very easily though - Garcia's computer and then bam, they find him and give a token effort at "talking him down" (oh yeah, all those people will "pay" if the unsub just comes quietly), and then the unsub acquiesces and is arrested without incident.

The prison scenes were pretty much as expected, though I'm glad Reid has a friend in there. Hopefully the friend isn't a Scratch plant too.

[Willowy]

23 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

I think the prison guard is under Scratch's influence as well as last week's judge.  Too 'convenient' that both were so hardcore anti-Reid right from the get-go and the whole time.  Singling him out right away and threatening to put Reid's life in danger by ratting him out as a Fed?  Just because??   Doesn't ring too true.

No, I think maybe the bail judge could have been a Scratch acolyte, or she was just a horrible person. But the more I think about it, I'm thinking the guard is an Emily plant. Or a Morgan plant, or Rossi or Hotch or... I don't know. It just seems like he's mean to Reid on the face of it, but protects him when something goes down. I think he threatened him with exposure to get Reid to listen/obey him. 

He didn't have to save him from that beating from the "Oh hai I steal your stuff but if you try and take it back that's the real stealing and Ima kick your ass" guy. AND he put him in the cell next to Perrineau. 

Pretty sure we're looking at Andy Dufresne and Red (from The Shawshank Redemption for those that haven't read or seen it) here, and I do hope so. Andy even carved chess pieces.

[zannej]

I know they used the examples of acid attacks in other countries (which I think was perhaps a way to justify to the audience why acid attacks would be used in the US) but the cultures are just very different. Also, I always question whether or not that "information" is actually true. I'm too lazy to look it up right now.

IMO, it was a bit odd that the rage the unsub felt was directed at good-looking males as well as the women. It seemed a bit of a stretch for me. Also, this was one of the times where there could have been a sexual component to the crime but it was glossed over. From what I understand, men like the unsub are more likely to commit rape than to mutilate someone who rejected them. I've read some of the sites similar to this "manosphere" and CM really sanitized it. I personally get the feeling that the male victims were included because Erica Messer has decreed that they can't have too much violence against just the women because it turned her stomach. So, they included male victims to somehow equalize that.

It really would have made more sense to me for this guy to go after women who actually rejected him or who he felt ignored him when he tried to get their attention. And if he absolutely had to go after the men too, it should have been men that he felt interfered with him being able to pick up women.

I felt like there was just so much that got glossed over. And I admit that I was curious about what was going on with Reid in prison.

Garcia annoyed me. She used to be my second favorite character on the show and now she is my least favorite. She is such a caricature now. I have nothing against Kirsten Vangsness as a person- she seems lovely and nice, but she doesn't have Emily Bett-Rickard's (Felicty Smoak on "Arrow) acting chops to pull off that sort of character.

I wonder what the deal is with the prison guard played by the guy who was Bruce on Judging Amy. I don't know if one dude would have the power to force Reid in to genpop like that. And it just seems odd that he is targeting Reid like that. Either he's got a bug up his ass about Feds or he is being coerced/bribed to do it. I sort of suspect that there might be a good cop / bad cop thing going on with him and the former agent that seemed to "rescue" Reid. Especially since he hinted that if Reid admitted to murder it would gain him respect in prison.

I really hope they keep Reid smart enough to know not to even falsely confess just to gain respect. If he did, it would clearly be used against him in court. If anything, Reid *could* let slip the number of people he actually did kill (albeit in the line of duty).

I just wish the prison arc thing wasn't taking so long. I wanted to see Reid contributing to cases and working with the team. It seems like every time they give Reid an arc now, he has to be on his own for the most part.

I liked Damon Gupton's character in this one a little bit more. He showed a bit more personality while talking to the unsub-- but I admit I still am slightly bothered by the way he talks.

Also, I wish Garcia would just stop calling Adam's character "newbie". It's unprofessional and annoying.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

39 minutes ago, Willowy said:

No, I think maybe the bail judge could have been a Scratch acolyte, or she was just a horrible person. But the more I think about it, I'm thinking the guard is an Emily plant. Or a Morgan plant, or Rossi or Hotch or... I don't know. It just seems like he's mean to Reid on the face of it, but protects him when something goes down. I think he threatened him with exposure to get Reid to listen/obey him. 

He didn't have to save him from that beating from the "Oh hai I steal your stuff but if you try and take it back that's the real stealing and Ima kick your ass" guy. AND he put him in the cell next to Perrineau. 

Pretty sure we're looking at Andy Dufresne and Red (from The Shawshank Redemption for those that haven't read or seen it) here, and I do hope so. Andy even carved chess pieces.

That makes a lot of sense, but I'm not sure the writers are that crafty.  Kinda hoping they surprise me and that does end up being what is happening.

Also, why wouldn't the guard place him in solo-cell from the start, if meant to be protecting him?  Why put him in the 'gen-pop' sleeping/living quarter?

Edited March 2, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Willowy]

The guard doesn't determine that. That would be slotted higher-up. The guard is an enforcer, not a planner. UNLESS... ;)

See, the plot could thicken!

[zannej]

3 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

That makes a lot of sense, but I'm not sure the writers are that crafty.  Kinda hoping they surprise me and that does end up being what is happening.

Also, why wouldn't the guard place him in solo-cell from the start, if meant to be protecting him?  Why put him in the 'gen-pop' sleeping/living quarter?

 

3 hours ago, Willowy said:

The guard doesn't determine that. That would be slotted higher-up. The guard is an enforcer, not a planner. UNLESS... ;)

See, the plot could thicken!

Responding to both since these both seemed to be about the same thing:

I re-watched the beginning and Reid was originally pulled aside-- his name was on a list-- to be separated from genpop. He was clearly supposed to be with the other group but the guard came over and intervened. He looked directly at the chart that showed Reid in a separate list and then ordered that Reid be put in genpop instead. So he clearly overrode whatever the official orders were and for some reason, the guy who had the chart to begin with did not challenge him.

Now, whether the guard is working for someone or if he just has a bug up his ass about corrupt feds, I don't know. But I highly doubt he's actually trying to protect Reid for good purposes. I very highly suspect he's under orders to mess with Reid-- possibly to coerce a confession. It's possible that the guard was malleable because he hates feds who abuse the system and he truly believes Reid is guilty. Or maybe he's being blackmailed. Perhaps he didn't allow Reid to be attacked earlier because he probably realized Reid might end up dead and would not be able to confess. Whether or not the other former fed is in on it with him, I don't know. I'm still on the fence on whether that guy is actually good or if he's being bribed with less time in jail somehow in exchange for getting a jailhouse confession from Reid. We'll just have to wait and see.

[mochamajesty]

I thought Feds were trained in hand to hand combat. 

Reid shouldn't be as defenseless  as your average inmate.

I don't trust anyone in that prison.

Edited March 2, 2017 by mochamajesty

[JMO]

Last week, I wanted Garcia to sleep with the fishes.  This week, I was ready to feed her to Bruce, the infamous shark from Jaws.  But, mostly, I wanted to strangle whoever thought it would be a good idea to inject a little comic relief about Reid’s situation via Penelope and her ridiculous, and highly decorated, visitation schedule board.

So, the Reid stuff---the scene of him walking into the open holding area with his box of belongings was, for me, the most affecting of the night.  The two times he was rescued at the last minute were also frightening, but there was something about seeing him looking around at the others, and taking in what would be the quality of his life for the foreseeable future, that got to me.  MGG was understated and convincing, as usual, in conveying Reid’s fright.  And to think he’s there, all alone, the team not even working his case….. 

Richard T. Jones was already a familiar face before he did Judging Amy, but I can’t think of why.  I wonder if he and the Harold Perrineau character are actually both undercover, working together.  Calvin Shaw  actually seems to have quite a bit of freedom to move about, considering he’s incarcerated.  Is he in protective custody?  Is that what an individual cell means?  I hope we’ll see Reid use his smarts, and not just rely on Shaw and his influence.

For me, the case was filler for the Reid stuff.  So….it was ‘fine’.  But the fact that they were working it wasn’t.   If they want to give the newbies a case to work on, that's fine with me---as long as they get under ten minutes of air time.  But, consider the situation:  they have a number of serial killers on the loose.  Apprehending them was the work of Luke's unit, and maybe still is, for those he left behind.  For those killers who've stayed under the radar, an apprehension unit is all that's needed, because there is nothing more to add to the profile.

But they also have a serial killer who has targeted at least two members of their team (Hotch and Tara), and they've made the leap to decide he's behind Reid's situation as well.  If they are right, that's new activity on the part of Scratch, and could contribute to the profile.  They should be working the case, at least some of them, full time.  It would certainly add to the tension of each episode to have the team actively working to free one of their own, instead of bookending their concern.  

[Sparger Springs]

Why is every Reid arc storyline so ridiculous. He can't have normal problems. Reid is in love with a woman he has never sesen and has to call her on pay phones.  Reid can't meet a woman and go on a date in the real world. We have to prove he is so cerebral he isn't effected by mere looks. Reid is being set up for murder in Mexico and for some reason gets transferred to the US to stand trail, that makes no sense.  Reid's mother has Alzheimers he has to search for a cure himself and of course get set up for murder.

[TheGreenWave]

2 hours ago, Sparger Springs said:

Why is every Reid arc storyline so ridiculous. He can't have normal problems. Reid is in love with a woman he has never sesen and has to call her on pay phones.  Reid can't meet a woman and go on a date in the real world. We have to prove he is so cerebral he isn't effected by mere looks. Reid is being set up for murder in Mexico and for some reason gets transferred to the US to stand trail, that makes no sense.  Reid's mother has Alzheimers he has to search for a cure himself and of course get set up for murder.

Don't forget the "headaches of mysterious origin" - I think the only arc I liked was the Tobias Hankel, and I think that was because that was the SOLE storyline instead of plugging the A plot + B plot in one episode.  I agree with you all - I would much rather deep-dive into the Reid storyline because that is what is gripping me (although, I do admit to a ginormous eye roll when they veered into cliché land with the a-hole guard) - not the other garbage.  Seriously, why did new guy sit down and chat with the UnSub at the bar?  What purpose did that serve?  They already knew it was him, so they didn't need to try to get him to admit his hatred of the pretty people in the bar.

13 hours ago, SSAHotchner said:

And did anyone else get the impression in that last scene with Prentiss that Prentiss kept glancing down at Garcia's cleavage. It was almost kind of funny, like she was  being distracted by it

LOL at this!  That's because Emily was wearing a turtle neck and blazer - and, with Paget's thick bangs, I could only see a tiny Paget face. 

[Hotchgirl18]

You would think someone would stay behind to work on Scratch. Hotch, Tara, and now Reid. That's  THREE BAU members he has targeted! We know Scratch is connected to the Reid case. Now, they just gotta prove it.

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

You would think someone would stay behind to work on Scratch. Hotch, Tara, and now Reid. That's  THREE BAU members he has targeted! We know Scratch is connected to the Reid case. Now, they just gotta prove it.

Been saying it for weeks. Even if they just have a line or show Prentiss or Walker with Scratch's file on their desk it would suffice, because at least it shows that they're still working on the case, even if in that particular episode they weren't "getting anywhere".

Edited March 2, 2017 by Danielg342

[MMC]

And I want to know just what the hell the team is going to do about Reid being in the general population when he is suppose to be in protective custody.. Now if it is a case of them not knowing they are sure as heck going to find out when they go visit him.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

6 hours ago, JMO said:

But they also have a serial killer who has targeted at least two members of their team (Hotch and Tara), and they've made the leap to decide he's behind Reid's situation as well.  If they are right, that's new activity on the part of Scratch, and could contribute to the profile.  They should be working the case, at least some of them, full time.  It would certainly add to the tension of each episode to have the team actively working to free one of their own, instead of bookending their concern.  

 

1 hour ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

You would think someone would stay behind to work on Scratch. Hotch, Tara, and now Reid. That's  THREE BAU members he has targeted! We know Scratch is connected to the Reid case. Now, they just gotta prove it.

 

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

Been saying it for weeks. Even if they just have a line or show Prentiss or Walker with Scratch's file on their desk it would suffice, because at least it shows that they're still working on the case, even if in that particular episode they weren't "getting anywhere".

I think there are quite a few of us in this same boat. feeling like Reid's situation isn't given the plotty weight it needs.  Half (at least) an episode is wasted on filler and it seems like his team's only reaction to Reid's new status is "I hope he's ok" and smiling at Garcia's cuteness in making a 'correspondence & visitation' chart for him.  Wanna make sure he's ok?  How about trying to be proactive against PL/Scratch instead of reactive all the time!?  These writers/PTB are really mishandling this golden opportunity to shine a favorable light on not only the characters & show, but also themselves.

 

1 hour ago, MMC said:

And I want to know just what the hell the team is going to do about Reid being in the general population when he is suppose to be in protective custody.. Now if it is a case of them not knowing they are sure as heck going to find out when they go visit him.

Not sure exactly what they could do, other than complain, but maybe that would light a little fire under them to learn the danger of Reid being in gen-pop and actually spur them on to looking for Scratch.  

Right, nvm, who am I kidding?

[Hotchgirl18]

Scratch is involved in this. And the sky is blue and the sun sets in the west.

[secnarf]

2 hours ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

You would think someone would stay behind to work on Scratch. Hotch, Tara, and now Reid. That's  THREE BAU members he has targeted! We know Scratch is connected to the Reid case. Now, they just gotta prove it.

 

1 minute ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Scratch is involved in this. And the sky is blue and the sun sets in the west.

Do we know this? They have told us this (both the characters on the show and TPTB in real life) but I haven't seen anything to make me believe it. Emily/Reid just decided that it "had" to be Scratch and now the team is ignoring all other possibilities. It's sloppy writing and makes the characters look dumb. I think that's one of the reasons I can't really get into this storyline. I just don't buy any of it.

[normasm]

Alpha Male, huh? 

I won't speak about the case, except to say that at the beginning, with Garcia and the chart, I kept hoping Hotch would sweep in and bellow, "Sit down and shut up!" But, perhaps that's just me (jk, i know it's not).

The only part of the show that mattered to me was the Spencer portion. When the bus pulls up at the prison and we get our first look inside and can hear some guy whimpering, I know they wanted us to think it was Reid, so when we see the young kid (Luis?), and Reid trying to calm him, we get the feeling he's tough, or at least tougher than that poor schlemiel. At least he knows enough not to let his fear show.

When Reid is sorted out of the PC group and put with the genpop, the guard seems to have it out for him specifically. After Reid gets inside and tries to explain to the guy he doesn't belong there, the guy reveals he knows Reid's a fed. How does he know it? Is he a Scratch disciple? Is he undercover and working for the good guys? Something got Reid transferred from the jail prematurely... At the very least, the guard is doing something at someone's behest, good guy or bad.

Later, Reid makes an alpha male move to get his stuff back from the thugs, and the guard saves him from getting beaten. He also threatens him with telling everyone "who and what" he is. In the yard, Reid is accosted by the thugs (they seem to want him to join the white side against the black and brown side) and told they'll deal with him "tonight." He also sees Calvin for the first time. Later, when 10 o'clock comes and it's lights out (oh, the look on his face), the guard looks at him before leaving and shutting the door. Then the thugs come to drag him away kicking and screaming to where the super-scary guy is. I was confused, as I thought this was one big holding cell he was in, maybe with a common bathroom, and everyone was locked in there. But once they get Reid to that other area, Calvin comes out of the shadows and tells them to stop. Isn't he elsewhere, in a cell that's also locked after lights out? So, then Reid goes back to bed?! Confused, I am.

Next day, Reid goes to find Calvin (was he let out just for that, or can they walk all over the jail in the daytime?). Calvin tells him surviving inside is a matter of gaining and giving respect, that you do favors for someone and they owe you. So, this means that Reid now owes both Calvin, and the guard. So, ick, but at least he got a cup of coffee.

Later, when the guard takes him down to his dee-lux cell right next to Calvin's it's apparent he double-owes him. Which begs the question: are the powers that be doing this because Reid's a fed, or because Reid's Reid? If it's the latter, I fear the whole story will end up being one big, clunky Scratch-alanche. Next time, he's being pulled up from his bed with thugs calling him "snitch" and making to beat him down, so I don't think Reid is going to lie about what he did and didn't do, and he won't become a predator. That episode, and at least one more will be from prison. Lord help us all!

Once again, wonderful acting from MGG.

[Kara101]

To me they made Reid seem incredibly stupid in this episode. It seemed like he had  absolutely no idea about prison social constructs and hierarchies. He was the new guy today, which means he's bottom of the barrel. First, he seems surprised when his clothes are taken away. He then takes them away from the guy who stole them (gutsy move), but then he would have got beaten up if not for the guard coming in at an opportune time. Now, I understand Reid not wanting to come across as a pushover. But he had to have known it was going to lead to a physical altercation. He had no plan of defense after geting his clothes. He knew ( or should have known) that it was going to lead to him getting beaten up, and not result in him getting his things back, but he did it anyway. It was a stupid choice imo. Then he is noobish enough to ask the guard to discipline the inmate for for stealing his stuff? Really Reid?

Then, to make Reid look even more naive, he seems genuinely surprised when his bus buddy tells him that the group of guys are coming for him. Really, Reid? You couldn't have predicted that?

Now for the next part, I totally understand why Reid wouldn't want to join the gang. But did Reid think they were just going to be okay with that and accept his polite refusal? He had no plan B, and it obviously wouldn't have worked out very well for him if he wasn't once again saved in the nick of time.

I'm not sure what the prison dynamic is in the show, or how many of the white guys belong in the white guy gang. But let's say all of them are. If that's the case, did Reid think he was going to be the only white guy allowed to not belong? Did he think that was going to work out well for him? If there are some white guys who don't belong in the gang then this is a moot point. But if all of them belong, how did Reid think he was going to defy them without a plan? And I hate to say it, but with what I read about prison the thugs might have had a point when they said he would need them for protection. I know criminal minds would never have their fan favorite join a racial gang, especially in these times. But Reid is supposedly a logical creature, and survival is at stake here. It seems to me that if he didn't want to join the gang, he better have a pretty great plan on how to get out of joining. But he didn't. He had to know he was going to pay dearly for it. I just don't understand what was going through his head. It's like he genuinely thought he could defy every prison rule and just slide through the cracks.

For the last thing, it does seem odd to me that he is so trusting of Calvin. In order to get the level of respect from the other violent inmates like he did, it seems he would have to be a notorious, grade A badass. Aka probably a pretty terrible person. I know Reid trusts him because he's a former FBI agent, but it seems stupid that he's not at all suspicious. Or I could be totally wrong and Calvin is a great  guy. It just seems weird to me that Reid jumped to that conclusion so quickly.

Basically, they have Reid acting like doesn't have to follow any typical conventions and expects to have that work out for him. Which it doesn't, he has to be unrealistically saved like a damsel in distress each time. I think the old Reid would have hunkered down into survival mode.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[secnarf]

I wonder - and maybe this is being too generous - if Reid was trying to get beat up in order to get either out on bail or into protective custody. That was the only logical reason for his actions that I could come up with.

[Kara101]

24 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I wonder - and maybe this is being too generous - if Reid was trying to get beat up in order to get either out on bail or into protective custody. That was the only logical reason for his actions that I could come up with.

Maybe! That would explain everything nicely. Sadly, I do think you're right that you might be being too generous...

[normasm]

Hmmmm. Nope. I do not think they made Reid stupid.

If i were in a situation like this, where I have no power, I have no friends, am surrounded by hostile people, and am not physically able to defend myself against multiple people, I would do exactly what he did from the beginning - keep my head down, try not to call attention to myself. But if people were stealing my stuff, especially in a way that was so out in the open, like a taunt, I would have to make the decision whether I want to just cower in the corner and not have my stuff, or go get my stuff, knowing they will take that excuse to whip my ass.

Because if I just let it go and went to suck my thumb, they would never respect me, and not only that, they still would beat my ass. At least, when I stand up for myself, I get beatdown standing up for myself.

[Kara101]

39 minutes ago, normasm said:

Hmmmm. Nope. I do not think they made Reid stupid.

If i were in a situation like this, where I have no power, I have no friends, am surrounded by hostile people, and am not physically able to defend myself against multiple people, I would do exactly what he did from the beginning - keep my head down, try not to call attention to myself. But if people were stealing my stuff, especially in a way that was so out in the open, like a taunt, I would have to make the decision whether I want to just cower in the corner and not have my stuff, or go get my stuff, knowing they will take that excuse to whip my ass.

Because if I just let it go and went to suck my thumb, they would never respect me, and not only that, they still would beat my ass. At least, when I stand up for myself, I get beatdown standing up for myself.

Hmm maybe. But another thing to remeber is that Reid is an expert at talking down psychopaths with a gun to his head. He has time and time again manipulated people with his words. If he wanted to get his stuff back in a diplomatic/mentally manipulative way, I could see him spinning it. That is is where his strength lies ,not in his muscles. He studied people like them for a living. Getting his stuff back without getting himself beaten up would earn him respect I think. But he doesn't. He just goes in there and takes it, practically inviting the punch. He would have been pathetically beaten up. I don't really think that would gain him any respect from his follow inmates. I think it would more likely make him into a laughing stock. I think if he wanted to earn respect he should've done it how he has done it his whole life. Poor Reid :/

Edited March 2, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[normasm]

No, you don't get what i'm saying. He's not in a position to talk anyone down now. Yes, he can "persuade" someone if it's one-on-one, but what is essentially a pack of dogs will not sit and think and agree and go be pals. He took his stuff back so that that would be what he was getting beaten for. In that situation, it's his only power.

[Danielg342]

I still think the "real Reid" would have properly understood prison dynamics and properly vetted each and every inmate in his head to see who could be an ally to him and who wouldn't be. He's likely read plenty- if not all- of their files, and he's known to be a brilliant on-the-spot profiler ("Damaged"), so he definitely could figure all this out quickly. "Damaged" even showed he could do it under intense pressure and in extreme danger- where were those skills tonight?

Furthermore, Reid's got a BAs in Psychology and has likely read every study there is- there's absolutely no way he's never come across literature about prison dynamics and what he'd have to do to survive. It should already be ingrained in his head that he has to have allies if he's to survive prison and that laying low is a bad option, especially when he has to share a living space with other prisoners.

I get they wanted to do the whole "fish out of water" thing, but, in doing so, they went against (surprise, surprise) everything we should know about the character. A regular Joe or even your garden variety comic book nerd would likely not know to ally themselves in jail, but there's no reason why Reid- who's read and dealt with more than his fair share of evil people- wouldn't just know to do it, but thrive in doing so.

If they really wanted to do a storyline where Reid has difficulties in prison, they could have shown him profiling only for him to fail miserably, at least with some of the "tougher" prisoners. It's one thing to know how a criminal's mind works in the abstract but it's quite another to deal with it when it's ready to act on you.

[normasm]

He does understand prison dynamics. You have to be in a position of power in prison, which means you have to have everyone's respect or you have to belong to a powerful gang that has your back. When anyone comes into prison, unless their homies are right there waiting for them, they have to scratch (pardon) to find a place to be safe. Damn, people, we're talking about his first 24 hours or less in a federal prison, which is a minefield for any fed. No one is on his side. Which is why it's so suspicious that Calvin and the deputy are bailing him out.

That is what wouldn't ordinarily happen, IMO.

[Hotchgirl18]

What if the guards and Calvin are in cahoots with Scratch?

[Kara101]

I viewed Reid as having two main options when it came to the stealing situation:

1. Inaction. Accept his newbie status at the bottom of the totem pole and swallow his pride. He will probably figure out how to get his stuff back at some point by acceptance/relationship building. He should be an expert at that if the past 12 years have meant anything. He will seem weak but he just got there, it's to be expected. He will feel like a loser for a little while.

2. Action. Forcefully try to defy authority figures as a newbie. Inevitably fails. Gets beaten up, humiliated in front of a bunch of other inmates, and create enemies for himself. He is also now never getting his stuff back. He has also now shown that when he tried to stand up for himself he failed epically. Showing that your actions are completely ineffective is worse than inaction imo. That proves that your a wimp, inaction just means you may be a wimp. This seems like an all-around loss. I think it may be different if Reid planned on trying to give a good fight back. Even in the case that he lost he would have shown he could do damage and that could earn him respect. But Reid cowered and looked like he planned on just taking it. I don't think that would earn him respect from anybody.

The third option is an unrealistic tv show where he gets saved by the bell

So I am really having a tough time figuring out Reid's rationale unless he wanted to get beaten up. There is a good chance he would have gotten beaten up and create enemies either way, but with the second it was a guarantee.

I don't know, I am just taking a whack at prison dynamics so take all this with a grain of salt. It is also possible that Reid cared more about personal pride than  consequences, but that seems a bit out of character to me. But it's possible prison is doing odd things to him and making him act out of character.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[Danielg342]

47 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

I viewed Reid as having two main options when it came to the stealing situation:

1. Inaction. Accept his newbie status at the bottom of the totem pole and swallow his pride. He will probably figure out how to get his stuff back at some point by acceptance/relationship building. He should be an expert at that if the past 12 years have meant anything. He will seem weak but he just got there, it's to be expected. He will feel like a loser for a little while.

2. Action. Forcefully try to defy authority figures as a newbie. Inevitably fails. Gets beaten up, humiliated in front of a bunch of other inmates, and create enemies for himself. He is also now never getting his stuff back. He has also now shown that when he tried to stand up for himself he failed epically. Showing that your actions are completely ineffective is worse than inaction imo. That proves that your a wimp, inaction just means you may be a wimp. This seems like an all-around loss.

The third option is an unrealistic tv show where he gets saved by the bell

So I am really having a tough time figuring out Reid's rationale unless he wanted to get beaten up. There is a good chance he would have gotten beaten up and create enemies either way, but with the second it was a guarantee.

I don't know, I am just taking a whack at prison dynamics so take all this with a grain of salt. It is also possible that Reid cared more about personal pride than  consequences, but that seems a bit out of character to me. But it's possible prison is doing odd things to him and making him act out of character.

I see it much like you do.

Actually, my first reaction when Reid had his stuff stolen was, "why didn't he sit and watch it?" It's jail...he can't expect people to be honest. I would like to think Rule No. 1 in Reid's head would be this, but apparently Scratch can take away someone's common sense as well.

From there I would figure that Reid would sit on his bed and maybe wait for someone to talk to him or he'd scan the room and see if there was someone who he might connect with. Yeah, I understand it's his first day in prison and typically prisoners aren't kind to feds...but, again, Reid being passive and not doing, well, anything to help himself out of his situation goes against everything we know about him. I could understand that perhaps he'd be nervous trying to communicate with other prisoners and thus he'd be clumsy in trying to connect with them, but Reid not even trying doesn't make any sense to me.

I understand Reid's not exactly the most outgoing of people and scraggily body type means he'd be a target for prison bullies (unlike, say, Morgan or Rossi who could project toughness), but the Reid I know is just not passive. Maybe he's submissive when he recognizes a danger he can't otherwise avoid but I can't see him deciding to do nothing when his own survival is at stake. We're talking about a guy who defied his team and protected Owen Savage, a guy who sought out a mysterious woman to cure his headaches (and another mysterious woman to cure his mother's) and a guy who made a snap profile to stop a fight between Hotch and Chester Hardwick.

It just doesn't make sense that Reid would go to prison and be passive...he's better than that.

[Hotchgirl18]

He could always do what he did with the Hardwick incident and use a profile to buy him some time.

[normasm]

Again, those profiling skills he has won't work on a pack of circling dogs. 

[JMO]

I agree that he can't use profiling to save himself from a gang.  But he might well try to profile Calvin Shaw, and I hope he does.  None of us know yet whether Reid should actually trust him.

I sincerely hope Rossi and Lewis are there with files for Reid's case, and that they're not consulting with him on another.  

[normasm]

Unless it's the scratch case...

And yes, JMO, I do think he's suspicious of Calvin (I hope he is), because I think Calvin is orchestrating the attacks. I think he definitely directed the second one, as well as coming to his "rescue" so that Reid is beholden to him. And next time, he's goading him, saying 'which are you, predator or prey?"

Edited March 3, 2017 by normasm
clarification of my obtuseness