Chicago Justice - General Discussion

[Lillybee]

The actress playing valdez although pretty is an awful actress. She has no affect in her expressions. On the other hand, William Forsythe as the serial killer turned in a stellar performance. Was it ever addressed as to why the killer pretended to be pregnant and attended the yoga classes. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by Lillybee

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Elliebab said:

Apparently Dawson and Nagel are hurting the show. Whatever. 

They are no worse than young Stone acting like the detective squad Lieutenant. But since they are not Chicago PD their status is a big drawback towards the relative  realism from the Law And Order universe and plays more like the fake CSI and NCIS franchises.

Another Trial By Jury similarity like Brisco's partner before he passed away Nagle is supposed to be a wounded in action ex cop who went to lighter duty with the States Attorney. Only to have her tackling suspects in the first two episodes 

[sockii]

7 hours ago, Aliconehead said:

The father was the Ex Boyfriend.

while I agree that it is fine not to have a kid if you don't want one. Some people really want their own child and saying it's fine to not have one can ruin a friendship, speaking from personal experience. 

It's just tedious and a hurtful cliche to almost always see infertile women portrayed as broken and never able to get over the grief of it. And in shows like this one, portrayed as driven crazy by that grief and to murderous/illegal acts to steal another woman's baby. (Sort of like the "evil bisexual" is a hoary and overdone cliche as well.) As an infertile woman who then chose to work towards being happily childfree instead of pursuing treatment or adoption, I know how that choice can affect and sometimes ruin relationships, of course. But that isn't really the issue here, as I see it.

[Xeliou66]

L&O has always prided itself on realism and this show just isn't realistic. Dawson and Nagel get hate because what they are doing puts the show in CSI territory, and just isn't realistic. They should've either made them Homicide detectives, or had them start investigating once there was already an arrest/indictment/suspect. I like the Dawson and Nagel characters, just the unrealistic nature of what they are doing bugs me and lots of other viewers. It's also weird how Stone gets involved quickly and orders them around. 

I want to like this show but the writing and the awful Valdez character make it hard. 

[Elliebab]

you know what? Whatever. I'm sure if it was Erin and jay, there would be no problems. I'm through with this Antonio hating site. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by Elliebab

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Elliebab said:

you know what? Whatever. I'm sure if it was Erin and jay, there would be no problems. I'm through with this Antonio hating site. 

I suppose that they are cops from the PD show. If they came to the Law And Order world as States Attorneys Investigators doing the exact same job as homicide detectives in the rest of the extended franchise they would get the same objections 

[Waterston Fan]

14 hours ago, Aliconehead said:

The father was the Ex Boyfriend.

while I agree that it is fine not to have a kid if you don't want one. Some people really want their own child and saying it's fine to not have one can ruin a friendship, speaking from personal experience. 

Okay, thanks. I thought it was suggested but not definite. 

[hookedontv]

16 hours ago, Lillybee said:

Was it ever addressed as to why the killer pretended to be pregnant and attended the yoga classes

I don't recall it being explicitly addressed so I went under the assumption that she actually had a plan to cozy up to expectant moms in order to steal a baby. 

I liked this episode due to the number of courtroom scenes, which I've always loved in L&O. The episode moved at a fast pace and I was a bit tense at times (which is a good thing!) Really likes how Stone was able to resolve any issues he may have had by giving the serial killer immunity. 

[paigow]

13 hours ago, sockii said:

It's just tedious and a hurtful cliche to almost always see infertile women portrayed as broken and never able to get over the grief of it. And in shows like this one, portrayed as driven crazy by that grief and to murderous/illegal acts to steal another woman's baby. (Sort of like the "evil bisexual" is a hoary and overdone cliche as well.) As an infertile woman who then chose to work towards being happily childfree instead of pursuing treatment or adoption, I know how that choice can affect and sometimes ruin relationships, of course. But that isn't really the issue here, as I see it.

L&O Mothership has explored different angles on adoption /  "need" to be a parent... The surrogate mother that must have watched "The Producers" - she promised the same baby to 2 different families so she could collect double expenses while carrying the baby...The fertility clinic Doctor that secretly subbed his own sperm...Pretty sure there was one involving a same-sex couple adoption but can't remember if murder was involved.... 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

The fertility clinic Doctor that secretly subbed his own sperm

Funny, this same exact plot line also was done on L&O: CI, too. (With even, I think, almost the same title? "Seeds" on CI; "Seed" on the Mothership.) I guess the franchise loved to recycle. As for the same sex couple and adoption, I do recall a Mothership episode where the bio parents of a baby kidnapped said baby after one half of the adoptive gay couple was murdered, but I can't recall the name of the episode. IIRC, the bio-dad was a bigot and hated the idea of his kid being adopted by the couple.

[Xeliou66]

Yeah that episode about the gay couple adopting the baby was called Phobia and it was from L&O season 11. Great episode, and I especially liked the part where the other adoptive parent/gay guy testified after the defense attorney was trying to portray gay people as unfit parents. 

It was weird how they did an almost exactly similar storyline on L&O and CI about the fertility doctor using his own sperm, both episodes had Logan as lead detective as well. They started out differently though, the CI episode started out with a classic murder while the L&O one started out with a woman getting shot after shooting at her ex. 

I can't remember if L&O ever had any crazy women who went insane cause they couldn't get pregnant, but it is a stereotype that is tiresome

[paigow]

16 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I can't remember if L&O ever had any crazy women who went insane cause they couldn't get pregnant, but it is a stereotype that is tiresome

Wasn't there an episode about frozen embryos getting stolen / custody battle? I think the original sperm & egg donors got divorced. Somebody killed the ex-husband. His new wife implanted one of the embryos and the ex-wife wanted her charged with kidnapping / theft. Leading to debate about "what is a person" "ownership of human material" etc...   

[MakeMeLaugh]

Just watched this episode on demand. I guess we know where Stone stands on the death penalty.

Picky, I know, but I was also curious that he prosecuted the serial killer eight years ago. He doesn't seem old enough to have been assigned such a big case back then considering he was a major league baseball player first (who apparently wasn't a star pitcher, so must have spent some seasons coming up through the minors), so three years of law school (that's the Northwestern full time curriculum) on top of that.... 

Nagle's back story, missing a mandated drug test I think--why??? And her kid's father with full custody never has unexpected events that keep him from picking up the kid? This kind of personal crap involving the viewers and trying to tug at our heartstrings killed SVU for me. Quit it, Show. I had to rewatch five episodes of Justified to love Joelle again. 

[paigow]

21 minutes ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

Picky, I know, but I was also curious that he prosecuted the serial killer eight years ago. He doesn't seem old enough to have been assigned such a big case back then considering he was a major league baseball player first...

There will probably be a golf invitation from the Governor, but Stone has to turn it down because his rotator cuff and elbow were destroyed after his rookie season....

[Raja]

4 hours ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

Just watched this episode on demand. I guess we know where Stone stands on the death penalty.

Picky, I know, but I was also curious that he prosecuted the serial killer eight years ago. He doesn't seem old enough to have been assigned such a big case back then considering he was a major league baseball player first (who apparently wasn't a star pitcher, so must have spent some seasons coming up through the minors), so three years of law school (that's the Northwestern full time curriculum) on top of that.... 

Nagle's back story, missing a mandated drug test I think--why??? And her kid's father with full custody never has unexpected events that keep him from picking up the kid? This kind of personal crap involving the viewers and trying to tug at our heartstrings killed SVU for me. Quit it, Show. I had to rewatch five episodes of Justified to love Joelle again. 

Shot in the line of duty but misused prescription pain killers in recovery. Or her ex husband lied to gain sole custody of the kids.

[Raja]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

There will probably be a golf invitation from the Governor, but Stone has to turn it down because his rotator cuff and elbow were destroyed after his rookie season....

Merely his cover story because his Navy Reserve SEAL Team 66 got an emergency deployment orders 

[MakeMeLaugh]

11 minutes ago, Raja said:

Merely his cover story because his Navy Reserve SEAL Team 66 got an emergency deployment orders 

To save an orphanage while carrying the only vaccine against both ebola and AIDS in a tiny vial clenched between his manly teeth as he dodged bullets running across an open plain 

[CaptainTightpants]

I'm just getting caught up on the episodes now. I am a little irritated that the link between the murdered judge and Valdez was not revealed by the end of the episode. I honestly thought that the reveal would be that she and the judge's foster daughter were sisters. They seemed to cover the junkie mom situation so thoroughly that I thought that in the end Valdez would reveal that she was an older sibling that had been abandoned/seized by protective services, and placed into care. 

Then I thought there would be some sort of explanation  in the following episodes, but so far nothing! I am finding it difficult to invest in the characters so far, given that we still know so little about them. I don't need to be deluged with personal melodrama, but I would be nice to know the principle characters at least a little bit better. 

I'm familiar with Antonio from Chicago PD, so he is not totally a blank slate. But the entire rest of the cast is new, and so far, not very interesting. Which is too bad, because I am familiar with Phillip Winchester and Joelle Carter from other shows and thought they were great. 

The show is still hitting it's stride so I'm willing to hang in a bit longer. But I have to say I thought the first season would be a bit smoother since they are building from an existing franchise of shows. 

[CaptainTightpants]

This one was my favorite episode so far. They seemed to have toned down the (self)-righteous speachifying from Stone. He seemed more human and admirable in this outing than his previous scenes, where he seemed to constantly feel morally superior to everyone else. He and William Forsythe were excellent in their scenes together! I absolutely reveled in the epic smackdown that Stone was able to deliver right at the end. That was an awesome scene, and nobody does an evil smirk like Forsythe, I'm glad Stone was able to wipe if off his smug face. 

I liked that Nagel had a situation going on outside of work because she has just been kind of boring so far. However, I assume that the addiction will be revealed to be more substantial than she let on to the CPS lady. Otherwise, she was wildly unprepared for some very routine questions. And she should have had back-up childcare arranged in any case. I assume that special investigators can be called out to a case at all hours, like any other cop. Antonio has a pile of minor kids and an absent Ex, and he seems to manage just fine. 

It is a petty concern, but I couldn't figure out why Valdez was answering her cell in her bosses office while they were dealing with the grieving father. Stone was clearly irritated by it. Except for poor plotting, why wouldn't she just excuse herself and go out to the hall? The door was right there and he clearly didn't need her to conduct the interview

Overall it seems like the show is starting to find it's stride. 

[Waterston Fan]

How are the ratings for the show and how many more episodes? 

[MakeMeLaugh]

This 4/6 article https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2017/04/05/save-our-shows-2017-returning-canceled-bubble-shows/99982602/ puts Justice on the renewal bubble and considers the other three Chicagos to be shoo-ins for renewal. I won't be surprised if Justice bites the dustice.

[WendyCR72]

All I got from this, really, is how Phillip Winchester borrowed TV dad Michael Moriarty's "Sir" as a form of contempt that the elder EADA Stone used to love to do on Original Recipe L&O. Nice little Easter Egg there.

[Waterston Fan]

15 hours ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

This 4/6 article https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2017/04/05/save-our-shows-2017-returning-canceled-bubble-shows/99982602/ puts Justice on the renewal bubble and considers the other three Chicagos to be shoo-ins for renewal. I won't be surprised if Justice bites the dustice.

Thanks. Yeah, I do expect it to bite the dust. 

[Xeliou66]

Yeah I expect Justice to bite the dust as well, I wanted to like this show and I still watch it every week but I'm disappointed in it, I admit. It's had a couple of good episodes but overall the writing is just off. It's some kind of bizarre mix of the original L&O, Trial By Jury, and the Chicago shows and it just doesn't work. The unrealistic nature of the SA investigators showing up to crime scenes and doing the job of homicide detectives is a joke and very off putting to me and a bunch of other viewers, and there have been some writing weaknesses and various plot holes in every episode. The show is a disappointment for viewers of the L&O franchise who like realism and with people saying this show is the new L&O I've been very disappointed.

They've totally wasted Mark Jeffries who seems like an interesting DA, he gets shoved in the background to about 2 scenes an episode and his appearances are basically pointless, which is a shame as he seems interesting and the writers don't know how to write good scenes for him. 

The SA investigators are rather uninteresting and bland, they don't have much personality between them or anything that makes viewers want to put aside their disbelief at what they are doing. 

Dont even get me started on Valdez, such an awful, wooden character and I think a worse actress than Detective Beauty Queen from the original L&O. She really drags the show down. 

Peter Stone is a very good lead character and he's basically having to carry the show by himself now, I really like him and having him be Ben Stone's son was a great idea, I can definitely see similarities but they are somewhat different as well. It was also great to see Paul Robinette once again, so that was one of the best moments of the show. That being said, the show has disappointed as a supposed successor to L&O, and I think that we are finished seeing any L&O characters. Also the soapy personal crap such as Nagel's custody battle or Valdez having some kind of relationship with a judge is distracting and very unlike L&O. 

Overall the writing has been weak and the show doesn't seem to know what it wants to be, I expect it to get canceled.

[Xeliou66]

One of the best episodes of Chicago Justice yet, by far. Very fascinating legal case, which is what the show should be. The guy was a piece of shit and deserved punishment, but it wasn't murder, and the judge was right to overturn the verdict because the jury did base their verdict on emotion and not on the facts and the law, Stone shouldn't have dropped the lesser charges of stalking and harassment. It was interesting to see Stone try to "make new law", his dad frequently did the same on L&O, much more so than Jack McCoy, so it was interesting to see Peter Stone follow in his father's footsteps in that way. Jefferies was right though, if he wanted to change the law, he should petition the legislature or make a run for office. 

I liked seeing more of Mark Jefferies tonight, he is an interesting character who has been underused. 

I didn't have as much of an issue with Dawson and Nagel investigating, since the victim was a jury member on a trial and the DA wanted to be involved. Please stop shoving Nagel's custody battle down our throat though, I'm sick of it already and she is just becoming unlikable. 

Valdez is more and more unlikable in every episode, she is hands down the worst actor that has ever been on a Dick Wolf show, worse than Detective Beauty Queen from L&O and I didn't think that was possible. Her acting in the scene where she tried to appear outraged at the actions of the ex husband when asked by Stone, just watch her facial expression, it caused me to laugh out loud, hard. It was worse than acting in a high school theatre performance. And what was with her rant about how she doesn't need a boyfriend or kids and liked to screw random men, it was very forced, just like Nagel's custody issues, and making both women antagonistic towards men and acting unprofessional ( in Valdez's case, screwing a judge and anyone else apparently, and in Nagel's constantly letting her custody battle get in the way of her job ) doesn't make them strong women or whatever. This show needs less personal stuff, not more, on L&O the personal stuff was almost always subtle and came up during the case as an afterthought almost, here it is being forced. And please just get rid of Valdez, all she does is smirk and she can't act her way out of a paper bag. At least her screen time has been minimal lately.

The one thing I would've liked more of is courtroom scenes and legal stuff, they should've cut the pointless chase scene and discovered the suicide quicker and then had more time for legal stuff and courtroom stuff. Overall this is a decent show, it just needs some smoother and improved writing and for Pete's sake please ditch Valdez

[sockii]

This episode made me like Valdez more than I had previously - yay for a tv show giving us a happily childfree character! (It does not make one antagonistic towards men to not want kids and settle down, just for the record.) Though she does seem to be one of those annoying vegetarians who has to preach anti-meat rhetoric at anyone daring to eat meat in her presence. I do like that both Stone and Dawson just shrug that off, though :D

I personally think the show is doing a good job of balancing cases with small bits of personal details. I do want to know more about these characters if I'm going to invest emotionally in this show; a couple short scenes here and there throughout isn't derailing the action.

Found it sort of amusing again how there were some parallels here on CJ with recent episodes of SVU - and with CJ handling them much better, of course. Here with the attempted prosecution of a crime when there really wasn't an actual law on the books to support the case (similar to "Imposter" where Benson bullied Barba into bringing rape charges against th fake college recruiter). At least here we saw Stone actually doing something after the verdict to try to make legislative change.

[paigow]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

One of the best episodes of Chicago Justice yet, by far. Very fascinating legal case, which is what the show should be. The guy was a piece of shit and deserved punishment, but it wasn't murder, and the judge was right to overturn the verdict because the jury did base their verdict on emotion and not on the facts and the law, 

Jury Nullification - in my TV experience - cannot be overturned if tampering is not involved...grounds for appeal to the Supreme Court of Fiction? 

[Raja]

14 minutes ago, paigow said:

Jury Nullification - in my TV experience - cannot be overturned if tampering is not involved...grounds for appeal to the Supreme Court of Fiction? 

Jury nullification and judges overturning convictions while Mr Stone(s)/McCoy/Cutter glare at him have a long history in the L&O verse. The case is done unless politically the US Attorney can make a case but no cops or minority status in the perp or victim was invovled here.

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

One of the best episodes of Chicago Justice yet, by far. Very fascinating legal case, which is what the show should be. The guy was a piece of shit and deserved punishment, but it wasn't murder, and the judge was right to overturn the verdict because the jury did base their verdict on emotion and not on the facts and the law, Stone shouldn't have dropped the lesser charges of stalking and harassment. It was interesting to see Stone try to "make new law", his dad frequently did the same on L&O, much more so than Jack McCoy, so it was interesting to see Peter Stone follow in his father's footsteps in that way. Jefferies was right though, if he wanted to change the law, he should petition the legislature or make a run for office. 

I liked seeing more of Mark Jefferies tonight, he is an interesting character who has been underused. 

I didn't have as much of an issue with Dawson and Nagel investigating, since the victim was a jury member on a trial and the DA wanted to be involved. Please stop shoving Nagel's custody battle down our throat though, I'm sick of it already and she is just becoming unlikable. 

Valdez is more and more unlikable in every episode, she is hands down the worst actor that has ever been on a Dick Wolf show, worse than Detective Beauty Queen from L&O and I didn't think that was possible. Her acting in the scene where she tried to appear outraged at the actions of the ex husband when asked by Stone, just watch her facial expression, it caused me to laugh out loud, hard. It was worse than acting in a high school theatre performance. And what was with her rant about how she doesn't need a boyfriend or kids and liked to screw random men, it was very forced, just like Nagel's custody issues, and making both women antagonistic towards men and acting unprofessional ( in Valdez's case, screwing a judge and anyone else apparently, and in Nagel's constantly letting her custody battle get in the way of her job ) doesn't make them strong women or whatever. This show needs less personal stuff, not more, on L&O the personal stuff was almost always subtle and came up during the case as an afterthought almost, here it is being forced. And please just get rid of Valdez, all she does is smirk and she can't act her way out of a paper bag. At least her screen time has been minimal lately.

The one thing I would've liked more of is courtroom scenes and legal stuff, they should've cut the pointless chase scene and discovered the suicide quicker and then had more time for legal stuff and courtroom stuff. Overall this is a decent show, it just needs some smoother and improved writing and for Pete's sake please ditch Valdez

Watching Valdez and Nagle's car talk, especially after seeing the wife of the victims sister I was expected a paraphrase of the infamous "its because I'm a lesbian" what are you slow. Unless Valdez is going to be a (real life) Jack Ryan in the future.

[Xeliou66]

A judge can throw out a jury verdict in certain cases where the judge thinks that the law wasn't followed. 

1 hour ago, sockii said:

This episode made me like Valdez more than I had previously - yay for a tv show giving us a happily childfree character! (It does not make one antagonistic towards men to not want kids and settle down, just for the record.) Though she does seem to be one of those annoying vegetarians who has to preach anti-meat rhetoric at anyone daring to eat meat in her presence. I do like that both Stone and Dawson just shrug that off, though :D

I personally think the show is doing a good job of balancing cases with small bits of personal details. I do want to know more about these characters if I'm going to invest emotionally in this show; a couple short scenes here and there throughout isn't derailing the action

Valdez not wanting to marry or have kids doesn't make her antagonistic towards men, I have no problem with that and I agree that women don't need kids or a husband to be happy, once again it was mainly the actress and her delivery of the lines and the way she plays the character that makes her seem very antagonistic towards men, a better actress could make the character likable, right now she is just a wooden pretty face who seems like a feminist caricature/parody. Truly a terrible actress, just watch her facial expression in the scene where Stone asks her what she thinks she be done and she tries to express outrage at the guy's actions, her acting is really bad. 

I was almost expecting a lesbian revelation as well from Valdez in the car scene with Nagel, the thought did cross my mind.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I'm still stuck early in the episode at a piece of clothing being put somewhere in "the bullpen" (which I thought was going to be about Stone being a MLB pitcher for the Chicago Cubs) when someone wins his or her first case. What? Was there a point to that tidbit? And why did Stone drop the other two charges? And why didn't they settle this case anyway before putting the kid on the stand like they would have on L&O? And was dead juror clutching duct-tape in her purple puffy coat both in the judge's chambers and when she ran out of the courtroom? And quit making Nagle's stupid personal life part of this show.

Edited April 10, 2017 by MakeMeLaugh

[Raja]

21 minutes ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

I'm still stuck early in the episode at a piece of clothing being put somewhere in "the bullpen" (which I thought was going to be about Stone being a MLB pitcher for the Chicago Cubs) when someone wins his or her first case. What? Was there a point to that tidbit? And why did Stone drop the other two charges? And why didn't they settle this case anyway before putting the kid on the stand like they would have on L&O? And was dead juror clutching duct-tape in her purple puffy coat both in the judge's chambers and when she ran out of the courtroom? And quit making Nagle's stupid personal life part of this show.

They used to show the Executive ADA debating with the DA/SA about going all or nothing in pushing a murder charge so that the jury wouldn't have the option of making their own equivalent to a plea bargain amongst themselves 

[SuzieQ]

Decent episode, but in reality I don't think the case would have ever made it to trial.  He was guilty of being a despicable low life and possibly child abuse, but that is it.  Don't understand all the Valdez hate.  She's a single, ambitious, rising attorney who doesn't want a husband or kids.  Everyone gets to decide what path is right for them.

[watcher1006]

I agree that it's doubtful the case would have gone forward. When Stone went for 1st Degree Murder my reaction was "what are you thinking?" It seems impossible to establish a direct causal connection between his harassing machinations and her suicide. I have no sympathy for the father (Clark was his name?) and he should have been convicted of something, but murder was way too much of a reach.

[Xantar]

I understand that Valdez is played by the weakest actor in the cast, but she honestly doesn't annoy me. Yes, it's clear she was chosen for her looks, but she's adequate for the role.

It's really too bad that the showrunners feel every episode must center around murder. Even when they had a clear-cut stalking and harassment case, they still had to shoehorn it into murder. There were any number of other directions they could have gone. But I guess Dick Wolf wants his murder show, so that's what we're going to get. As soon as the verdict was reached and the judge banged her gavel, I knew she was going to set aside the verdict. She was right to do so. This was a manslaughter case at best, and I think Stone is going way too far to try to amend the first degree murder statute.

I was also expecting to see something about the perp having his life ruined as a result of the trial. He's a high-powered CEO of some sort, and his behavior was put on display for all to see in a high profile trial. Come on, writers. Join the 21st century and show us the social media backlash.

[Impish Dragon]

1 hour ago, Xantar said:

and I think Stone is going way too far to try to amend the first degree murder statute.

Was it specifically stated he was trying to change the first degree murder statue?  I got the impression he was trying to get the law in general changed to include driving someone to suicide.  Like maybe under involuntary manslaughter or something. 

I don't hate any of the characters, but of the five, only Stone and Jefferies have any real on screen presence. 

I too was expecting Valdez to say she was a lesbian. 

[CaptainTightpants]

Valdez didn't bug me with her no husband, no kids goals. I think it is refreshing to see a straight woman portrayed on TV who isn't interested in either. 

However, if they are going to make her some sort of evangelical vegan, she will quickly wear on me. I understand that she and Stone seem to have a friendly working relationship, but harassing your boss about his lunch is a quick way to not get promoted. 

As for the case of the week, I think they really highlighted some hubris on Stone's side. He really shouldn't have dropped the lesser charges, as he stated at the end of the episode. But he is supposed to be an experienced and seasoned attorney, how did he even make that mistake to start with?

And i do wish they would try to cast somebody as a defense attorney who isn't a completely awful, smug scumbag like the woman in this episode. And pretty much every other episode to date. There have to be at least a few who are normal human beings, I would hope!

[Xeliou66]

I actually liked how Stone tried to prove murder in this one, while it was a stretch, anyone who watched L&O knows that sometimes they stretched the law because they wanted to try to get justice and it always makes for an interesting case. Stone should've kept the lesser charges but I think he thought the jury would just convict on those and not on the more severe counts. The judge did the right thing by throwing out the verdict, the jury acted on emotion and not on the law. 

I don't have a problem with Valdez not wanting kids or a committed relationship, I like to see them break the stereotype of a woman having to have kids or her life isn't complete, my problem was with the horrendous delivery by the actress, she delivered the lines in such an angry, aggressive manner that it seemed like she was like "how dare you think I want any kids or am in a relationship", she delivered the lines like she was trying to do a parody impression of a radical feminist. She's just an awful, wooden actress who has no talent besides her looks and her only way of showing emotion is smirking. Just watch the scene where she expresses outrage over the defendants actions, and watch her facial expression. It's truly laughable she's so bad. Valdez would be fine if they got an actress who had more talent than someone in a high school theater production. I'm sick of her spewing her vegetarian stuff as well, stop being so pushy. 

There were some writing oddities, such as the clothes in the bullpen line ( totally pointless and I thought it was going to be a baseball story as well ) and the juror clutching duct tape or whatever, and I'm sick of the Nagel custody battle being shoved down our throats as well. I wish they had had more legal scenes and less of that pointless stuff, but I did like that we saw more of Mark Jefferies tonight.

[watcher1006]

11 hours ago, CaptainTightpants said:

And i do wish they would try to cast somebody as a defense attorney who isn't a completely awful, smug scumbag like the woman in this episode. And pretty much every other episode to date. There have to be at least a few who are normal human beings, I would hope!

The original "Law and Order" had some interesting defense attorneys, some of whom were recurring characters. The one that most comes to mind is Danielle Melnick, played by Tovah Feldshuh, who was a friend of ADA Jack McCoy and the viewers could look forward to seeing them oppose each other in the courtroom. I noticed that this actress and her character has appeared on this show, now as a judge.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I agree with xantar about the whole murder issue being the Show's only crime. This case was actually pretty stupid imo--Stone felt guilty because he kept the juror (although the judge did that, not him) so went looking for something to try the ex-husband for, to assuage his guilt. If she hadn't been a juror, he would not have pursued this. Plus Show was hopping on the antibullying bandwagon. There are a lot more pressing crimes in Chicago that need pursuing, and some of them aren't even murder but are still interesting. 

I don't think the exhusband's business was big enough to be affected by any bad publicity (plus he won so there's that)--it sounded like a startup that written a couple of successful apps. He was barely one-dimensional, so pretty lazy writing, Show. His lawyer was actually more believable than most we've seen here. 

[Xantar]

13 hours ago, CaptainTightpants said:

And i do wish they would try to cast somebody as a defense attorney who isn't a completely awful, smug scumbag like the woman in this episode. And pretty much every other episode to date. There have to be at least a few who are normal human beings, I would hope!

In a previous episode, they had a defense attorney who was kind of smug in the courtroom and during plea negotations but actually seemed to have a cordial relationship with Peter Stone. After it was all over, the episode ended with them having a drink in a bar. Lawyers can be funny about how they sling all kinds of stuff at each other in the courtroom but understand in the end that it's not personal.

That being said, I wouldn't mind having Diane Melnick show up. She was awesome.

[Waterston Fan]

Would you call this a first loss for Stone? I wish he'd lose a case for sure. 

This was an okay episode but wish they'd get rid of that Nagel storyline for sure. 

I think they guy could have gotten at least manslaughter but I bet he attacked Sam as well. When the judge started to speak, I had this crazy thought that it would be overturned and it was. 

I would have thought Dawson should have arrested that jerk for dragging his son like that. 

[Xeliou66]

I agree, Dawson should've arrested that jerk for assault. He was dragging his son and then shoved Dawson. 

I was glad to see an ending where Stone didn't win as well, nice change of pace, I hope for a not guilty verdict as well at some point. 

"Diane" ( her name is Danielle ) Melnick has already shown up as a judge, totally unexplained. They didn't even acknowledge who she was or that she had ever been on TV or how she wound up in Chicago, you wouldn't have known that she had ever been on TV before if you hadn't read her name plate and recognized. 

[Raja]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I agree, Dawson should've arrested that jerk for assault. He was dragging his son and then shoved Dawson. 

I was glad to see an ending where Stone didn't win as well, nice change of pace, I hope for a not guilty verdict as well at some point. 

"Diane" ( her name is Danielle ) Melnick has already shown up as a judge, totally unexplained. They didn't even acknowledge who she was or that she had ever been on TV or how she wound up in Chicago, you wouldn't have known that she had ever been on TV before if you hadn't read her name plate and recognized. 

With the reuse of actors in the franchise including the 27th's detective squad Lieutenant now being a hospital administrator until that judge is identified canon wise we can't say for sure she is Judge Melnick and not just the actor Tovah Feldshuh being done a solid when promotion department went further than the show runner

[watcher1006]

She was identified as "Judge Melnick" by the nameplate on the bench, I think it's safe to assume she's meant to be the same character as the defense attorney on the original "Law and Order". Dick Wolf's shows have done this before. Carey Lowell as Jamie Ross made guest appearances as a defense attorney on "Law and Order" after stepping away from her regular role as ADA. And she appeared as a judge, I think it was on "Trial by Jury".

I do wonder a bit how Tovah Feldshuh came to Chicago to play the role. I've always understood her to be a New Yorker to the bone, and that her first passion is the live stage rather than TV. I suppose actors like everyone else can travel anywhere to do their job, but I wonder if she will be a recurring character on this Chicago show.

Edited April 12, 2017 by watcher1006
Corrected spelling of CAREY LOWELL's name. Long time since I wrote about her!

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

She was identified as "Judge Melnick" by the nameplate on the bench, I think it's safe to assume she's meant to be the same character as the defense attorney on the original "Law and Order". Dick Wolf's shows have done this before. Carrie Lowell as Jamie Ross made guest appearances as a defense attorney on "Law and Order" after stepping away from her regular role as ADA. And she appeared as a judge, I think it was on "Trial by Jury".

Yeah, Jamie Ross was a judge on L&O: Trial By Jury. (What can I say, I have the set!) Melnick also appeared - unnamed, but playing her shark lawyer self - on the finale of L&O: CI, too. So Danielle Melnick has made the rounds! Dick Wolf must really like Tovah Feldshuh!

[paigow]

If Nagle has to be written out due to the custody battle, her replacement should be Bobby Goren.... 

[WendyCR72]

3 minutes ago, paigow said:

If Nagle has to be written out due to the custody battle, her replacement should be Bobby Goren.... 

I miss Bobby. Not sure he'd fit here, though. That, and as much as I loved the L&O franchise (at least CI/Mothership), as this is another franchise, it needs to start developing its own characters well instead of borrowing from Wolf's past glory. If these writers can't do it, find some that can.

[FnkyChkn34]

If Chicago Justice does bite the dust (and you'll receive no complaints from me), I hope they can find a plausible way for Jon Seda to rejoin PD.  It would be a shame for him to lose his job entirely if PD is still going.  I guess he knew that was a risk he was taking, but still.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I looked Jon Seda up on IMDB and he has been filming an indy movie in Chicago called Canal Street. He'll be okay with or without Justice or PD.

[paigow]

Goren predates Negan as a speechifying contortionist...Capture that Sunday night AMC demographic...Stone will be plea bargaining all day because nobody wants to spend time in "The Box" with Goren....