S01.E02: Snitches Get Stitches

[loki567]

Quote

I'm no expert, but - in the real world?  With a search warrant, if they could convince a judge they had probable cause.

RE your "surveillance state" comment - if you view current times as horrible, then you wouldn't be far wrong.  :)  So far I haven't seen the pursuers employ any tactics which aren't employed on a daily basis by thousands of law enforcement officials in America today.  More below.

Yeah, I recognize that but how does this show in particular have any sort of legal justification to go through the friend's phone without the force of law behind them? It's shady if they decided to hack the friend, figuring they wouldn't get in trouble. Otherwise, it means it's not just the contestants, but the friends of the contestants also had to sign forms allowing them to go through their stuff. Which also shady. 

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, loki567 said:

Yeah, I recognize that but how does this show in particular have any sort of legal justification to go through the friend's phone without the force of law behind them? It's shady if they decided to hack the friend, figuring they wouldn't get in trouble. Otherwise, it means it's not just the contestants, but the friends of the contestants also had to sign forms allowing them to go through their stuff. Which also shady. 

"Legal justification" is only significant if you have to back up your methods before a judge in a court of law, or risk having any evidence gained by those methods thrown out.  Since none of this will ever actually go to court, that's probably one less restriction to which the hunters have to give much more than a passing nod - unless TPTB (who in this context are judge, jury and executioner) direct them to do so.

[waving feather]

I don't mind the hacking of phone or computers because the contestants signed up for it but I don't like them harassing their friends and family - on the phone, in person or going through their things.

It seems like there is a rule that states the contestants can't be in the same place for more than a certain amount of time. This is very biased towards the hunters, but I understand because if not, the hunters may look like fools and not very good at their jobs if they can't catch anyone because everyone is holed up in their acquaintances' houses. They won't need any money then.

Why did Troy and Chel run though? They should know the hunters can't force their way into Amanda's house.

I would also like to see the hunters treat the contestants with more respect. They are not ACTUAL criminals, you don't need to treat them as such. And stop taking it so personally because David outwitted you. It won't kill your egos to give him some credit. You can see David really had experience with this; not necessarily because of what he is doing but because he has a different look in his eyes compared to the other contestants. I'm rooting for him and Emily.

That british intelligence officer adds nothing to the show. He is always stating the obvious after the fact.

Edited January 27, 2017 by waving feather

[Mystery]

On 1/25/2017 at 5:22 PM, NYGirl said:

Maybe the best idea would be to borrow somebody's phone that they don't know about.  Someone who normally keeps in touch with the family so as to not send up a red flag.

I missed this the other night when I was fuming. I like this idea. But it would have to be someone who's a few degrees separated (so the hunters wouldn't already have access to their information) and that might be hard to accomplish. 

15 hours ago, wings707 said:

I don't think there are restrictions on how long you can stay in one place.   Jesus Couple was planning on 28 days in the swamp.  Which also says they can take all $500 out at once.  

Or it might mean that they thought they could live on their own supplies, or take money later. 

The other day I saw a site talking about the UK show, but I can't find the link again. Someone there thought that for the UK show, they "recreated" some of the government actions. Like a team would take out money and be photographed by its own camera crew as if by the ATM camera, and that information would be sent to an independent entity who would send it on to the hunters after a certain time had passed and/or after the hunters had demonstrated the work that would have gotten them that kind of information in the real world. That might be what's happening here. 

[Christina]

I'm not sure I will watch the rest of this, mostly because I don't like the hunters. I also don't like that we, the viewers, don't know all the rules, which makes watching frustrating. Pulling all the money out at once, for instance, must not be allowed or someone would have done it. It's too obvious. Buying a burn phone before hand must also not be allowed, since no one thought to do that, either. Burn phones can also be tracked. Even if you purchase it with cash, the phones are activated either at the register or online, and would have to have a signal and be charged. If the money was taken from one ATM and they were able to use the surveillance cameras to follow you (which I agree seems to be by production not actual cameras), they could tell that you walked into a nearby store, pick up how many phones were purchased, and find you that way. The whole thing is skewed toward the hunters, who are jerks. Even loosening the purse strings would give a more realistic experience, and it would still be skewed toward the hunters. The people who successfully evade capture don't leave with only $500 and only take $100 at a time. 

In the first episode, they explained that once you are deemed a fugitive from justice you no longer have privacy rights. That is why in the real world, judges would sign the warrants, and the fugitives have signed the authorizations to allow them access to their homes, etc. In the real world, friends and acquaintances would be treated much worse than they are on this show, too. Guilt by association and all. There was one man who was held as a material witness for over a year in protective custody because they were trying to find his son, and once they found him they needed the dad to testify. He, of course, lied on the stand. The Marshal service swore that it was an outlier and rarely happened, only for other people to come forward and say it happened to them, too. Because of how much it seems edited for us to root for the hunters, I wonder if the friends were pushed harder, causing them to act nervous and run to the fugitives, and it was edited out. Some of the behavior doesn't seem legitimate.

This seems like it could be good, and I will probably give it another episode, but if they get another season, there should be some changes to make it more viewer friendly. They may not have realized that the rules were not clear to us at home, or they may not have wanted us to know them because we would see that it is set up for the hunters to win, even though it is glaringly apparent.

[Wings]

2 hours ago, Mystery said:

Or it might mean that they thought they could live on their own supplies, or take money later. 

They only have the $500 from the show in a bank account they set up.  I think it is logical that they cannot take the money later, they need it to use while the game is going on.  

If they are being good at dodging the hunters, no one would know how long they stayed in any one place.  But again, is it a rule that we don't know!  Who would time them, cameraman?  The Jesus couple had planned on staying in the woods for 28 days.  Mrs Jesus could not hack it but they clearly brought dehydrated food with them for the duration, so food must be ok to pack.  

[bioprof]

Something doesn't ring true about the calendar page:

How did she know the EXACT DATE they would be leaving and then write in all the moves they would make?

I could see if she made a list like "day one,  day two," etc. and then planned ahead for the time they would be on the run.....but she had all the exact dates filled in.  How???? Supposedly they only had one hour head start after being notified. How do you fill in the calendar page, pack, get ready.....all in one hour.

Smells fishy....seems like they knew ahead of time when they would get the "go" signal. Sounds fixed...

[Nashville]

8 minutes ago, bioprof said:

Something doesn't ring true about the calendar page:

How did she know the EXACT DATE they would be leaving and then write in all the moves they would make?

I could see if she made a list like "day one,  day two," etc. and then planned ahead for the time they would be on the run.....but she had all the exact dates filled in.  How???? Supposedly they only had one hour head start after being notified. How do you fill in the calendar page, pack, get ready.....all in one hour.

Smells fishy....seems like they knew ahead of time when they would get the "go" signal. Sounds fixed...

Contestants were given a 48-hour window within which they would be notified to dash, so they knew they'd be hitting the bricks by Day 2 of that window and going for the next 28.  I expect the time window would be a necessity for coordinating time off from work or such. 

Me, I would do any necessary hard-set scheduling from Day 2 on - and if the alert hit on Day 1, dodge the hunters on-the-fly until the next day when my schedule would kick in.

[bioprof]

Thanks....thought it was only the one hour heads up. 48 hours would be enough to get the calendar set up with the possibility that it could be off by a day. 

[Wings]

43 minutes ago, bioprof said:

Thanks....thought it was only the one hour heads up. 48 hours would be enough to get the calendar set up with the possibility that it could be off by a day. 

When they knock on the door they have a one hour lead ahead of the hunters. 

[Mystery]

By "later" I meant within the 28 days, just not right away. I just don't think that the FL couple took $500 out at once. 

[Caudex]

18 hours ago, Mystery said:

The other day I saw a site talking about the UK show, but I can't find the link again. Someone there thought that for the UK show, they "recreated" some of the government actions. Like a team would take out money and be photographed by its own camera crew as if by the ATM camera, and that information would be sent to an independent entity who would send it on to the hunters after a certain time had passed and/or after the hunters had demonstrated the work that would have gotten them that kind of information in the real world. That might be what's happening here. 

There is a disclaimer at the end of the US show: "While the investigative techniques shown in Hunted are real, some procedures have been replicated for broadcast." The disclaimer for the UK version says that CCTV and ANPR (automatic number plate recognition) are among the replicated "powers of the state".  I believe that pretty much all information the hunters have is given to them by the producers. I don't believe they could get any real CCTV footage, ATM use info, or anyone's phone records, even if the phone owners had given permission.

I'll still keep watching the US version but the UK version is so amateurish looking (shaky camera etc.) that maybe I'll just check if anyone got away in the end.

[Wings]

1 hour ago, Caudex said:

There is a disclaimer at the end of the US show: "While the investigative techniques shown in Hunted are real, some procedures have been replicated for broadcast." The disclaimer for the UK version says that CCTV and ANPR (automatic number plate recognition) are among the replicated "powers of the state".  I believe that pretty much all information the hunters have is given to them by the producers. I don't believe they could get any real CCTV footage, ATM use info, or anyone's phone records, even if the phone owners had given permission.

I'll still keep watching the US version but the UK version is so amateurish looking (shaky camera etc.) that maybe I'll just check if anyone got away in the end.

Replicated for broadcast is the staging of the war room.  In real life you don't have everyone in the same room like a shuttle launch.  It takes time to get a search warrant for phone records so I suspect that was done ahead for family and friends.   

When I come to this forum it triggers my brain to set up yet another plan.  I would go to bus station and buy a ticket for the furthest place I could afford, where I know someone and beat it back quickly to a neighbor's house (planned).  This would be someone who cannot be traced to me.  Friend of friend scouts area for Escalades.  I mail ATM card to person, they withdraw $$ and mail cash and card back.  The neighbors address would not alert any mail search. 

Edited January 28, 2017 by wings707

[slitz]

Finally got to watch this last night.  I was much more entertained with the 2-hour installment than just an hour.  But I'm also finding myself more and more annoyed with the fugitives (except for David and Emily).  Chill the fuck out and stop jumping at everything, Troy and Chele in particular.  They would have been just fine if they'd just stayed at Chele's childhood friend's house at least for another 12 hours or a day.  Instead they leave immediately after the Hunters did?  If you're smart enough to see thru their deception of being there to "help" them escape the Hunters, then you should be smart enough to realize that they're going to stick around that area for at least a little bit.  That just irritated me.  Same with the 2 moms.

Hoping Troy and Chele weren't the team that my friend was helping though.  The show said Troy and Chele are from New Port Richey and my friend lives in that area as well.  I don't think they were since it sounds like we'll actually see my friend on the show.  

[waving feather]

I know the producers' hands are heavy on this show but it's too much about the hunters finding the snail mails that the two best friends sent. How would they even know to look at snail mails in the first place? I find it hard to believe that the hunters are keeping track of the mail activities of their friends & acquaintances for ALL 9 teams. I call BS on that. There should be a limit on the amount of resources the hunters have, just like it would have in the real world. The producers probably fed the info to the hunters about the boys sending out the snail mails, which is not playing fair IMO.

[Nashville]

8 minutes ago, waving feather said:

I know the producers' hands are heavy on this show but it's too much about the hunters finding the snail mails that the two best friends sent. How would they even know to look at snail mails in the first place? I find it hard to believe that the hunters are keeping track of the mail activities of their friends & acquaintances for ALL 9 teams. I call BS on that. There should be a limit on the amount of resources the hunters have, just like it would have in the real world. The producers probably fed the info to the hunters about the boys sending out the snail mails, which is not playing fair IMO.

One thing to keep in mind is TPTB never specify whatever particular theoretical "crime" it is that puts the rabbits on the run in the first place.  If the premise crime (for lack of a better term) was a convenience store burglary, then you would probably be right.  If the premise crime was much more serious - a large-scale act of domestic terrorism, for example - boy howdy you better believe everything in Homeland Security's arsenal would be brought to bear.  And that would include everything from the Post Office to the Coast Guard, with NSA in-between.

[Wings]

Since CBS does not want to catch any flack for showing how easy it is to commit a crime, flee and not get caught,  they are showing how much is at the laws fingertips to always get you.  No cold cases here.  I know I learned something.  Never send anything in snail mail that might give me away.   Phew on that one!

I am willing to let them take me on this silly ride.  I own a detective agency, though it is only in my brain, I get a lot of work.  As a kid I would spy on the neighbors with binoculars, made my mother nuts.  

[green]

On 1/26/2017 at 6:02 AM, rose711 said:

It is designed to make the Hunters look good and be successful. I don't know maybe this is some weird showing the power of the Government somehow? Just the fact the producers have all the information is enough to make me doubt any authenticity here.

 

And what a stupid edit to make the hunters look good.  Everyone roots for the underdog, the Jason Bourne, the fox versus the hounds.  So everyone hates the hunters on this show especially since the hunted aren't even criminals but contestants looking to win money.  So why the edit to attempt to make the hunters into the good guys?  Crazy set-up edit which is doing the show no favors.

On 1/26/2017 at 9:04 PM, wings707 said:

I don't think there are restrictions on how long you can stay in one place.   Jesus Couple was planning on 28 days in the swamp.  Which also says they can take all $500 out at once.

Yes there are restrictions or no one would ever leave a house they got to ever.  And there would be no drama if people just sat around in one house for 28 days.  It's a TV show made to give jobs and money to the creators of same.  It wasn't made for the benefit to the contestants who are there to provide dramatic footage for said show.

And the outdoors isn't one location any more than the city of Atlanta is one location.  They showed them walking all over the place and camping in different spots every day or every other day.  They kept moving all the time.  Perhaps more so than any other team.

On 1/27/2017 at 9:02 AM, waving feather said:

I would also like to see the hunters treat the contestants with more respect. They are not ACTUAL criminals, you don't need to treat them as such. And stop taking it so personally because David outwitted you. It won't kill your egos to give him some credit. You can see David really had experience with this; not necessarily because of what he is doing but because he has a different look in his eyes compared to the other contestants. I'm rooting for him and Emily.

Basically it just makes me hate the hunters even more.  They are all a bunch of egotistical jerks.

On 1/27/2017 at 2:29 PM, wings707 said:

If they are being good at dodging the hunters, no one would know how long they stayed in any one place.  But again, is it a rule that we don't know!  Who would time them, cameraman?  The Jesus couple had planned on staying in the woods for 28 days.  Mrs Jesus could not hack it but they clearly brought dehydrated food with them for the duration, so food must be ok to pack.  

I assume the camera team does just that.  On The Amazing Race they have to report any violations of race rules on the road to production at the pit stop or on cell phone before they arrive so Phil can give out penalties.  It would be the same here.  Except no Phil.  

Which reminds me that the lack of a show host on camera explaining stuff like the rules as the show unfolds is another weakness of this series.  Having the host in the so-called command center (right up there with Wolf Blitzer's situation room silly stuff his show is called, what a bunch of "power groupie" wannabees) might actually make the hunters less hated.

8 hours ago, Caudex said:

There is a disclaimer at the end of the US show: "While the investigative techniques shown in Hunted are real, some procedures have been replicated for broadcast." The disclaimer for the UK version says that CCTV and ANPR (automatic number plate recognition) are among the replicated "powers of the state".  I believe that pretty much all information the hunters have is given to them by the producers. I don't believe they could get any real CCTV footage, ATM use info, or anyone's phone records, even if the phone owners had given permission.

 

Let us hope reality shows don't clog up the system let alone be given access to stuff like this.  That would be even more scary then the access the establishment authorities have to our lives already.  Obviously the ATM footage was from the camera crew.  And I was just laughing when they duck away from cameras especially when driving.  These "hunters" don't have access to this stuff.  They do have access to the camera crews calling in no doubt. 

I missed the last hour of this double episode because no how no way was I missing the first broadcast of the best show on TV (Vikings) penultimate season episode for this.  Thus my knowledge of the post office thing is only based on what I read here.  So about the snail mail stuff I missed ...

Someone here mentioned that the hunters got suspicious of the snail mail because of the return address being the same on a number of letters?  Why/how did the hunters even know to check some post office and how can they do that legally? 

And why did the hunted put the return address on an envelope anyway?  I get plenty of junk mail letters with no return address on them?  There is no rule you have to put a return address on any letter.  It is only for your benefit in case the address you sent it to has changed or you got it wrong so you can get back a check or something you sent.  So is this another hidden game show rule that you have to put a return address on a letter?

Edited January 28, 2017 by green

[MarkHB]

8 hours ago, green said:

Someone here mentioned that the hunters got suspicious of the snail mail because of the return address being the same on a number of letters?  Why/how did the hunters even know to check some post office and how can they do that legally? 

They referred to the Post Office's keeping photo images of all mail that goes through their automated sorters and those images being available to law enforcement, not going down and asking at a particular post office.  I am not sure how they faked that, though.

[basiltherat]

The Post Office takes images of all mail because of all the anthrax and other means of terrorism.  When the hunters couldn't find much digital footprint on that one team, process of elimination told them they must be using snail mail.  So they looked for the names of people that team knew, and that is how they found that the team had mailed something to a bunch of their contacts.  No one has actually READ the contents.  But that put the contacts on their "radar".

[hurrrz]

The thing with the snail mail is puzzling. So this friend of theirs is sending mail to other friends of theirs. Every time around Christmas I send a bunch of cards to friends and family. That doesn't mean that I am harbouring a fugitive that's part of my friend cycle. I am not fully buying that they made that connection. They were smart enough to have their friend fill out the envelopes. Maybe that's why I am not working in that field though. :D

[waving feather]

6 hours ago, basiltherat said:

The Post Office takes images of all mail because of all the anthrax and other means of terrorism.  When the hunters couldn't find much digital footprint on that one team, process of elimination told them they must be using snail mail.  So they looked for the names of people that team knew, and that is how they found that the team had mailed something to a bunch of their contacts.  No one has actually READ the contents.  But that put the contacts on their "radar".

Just because they didn't find digital footprint does not mean they are using snail mails though. It is quite a leap to conclusion that the hunters made. I'm sure Troy and Chele did not have any digital footprint while camping in the forest as well. And if the hunters already are stalking the contacts mails, they already have the contact's information anyway. It's just shady or not properly explained on the show.

[green]

3 hours ago, waving feather said:

Just because they didn't find digital footprint does not mean they are using snail mails though. It is quite a leap to conclusion that the hunters made. I'm sure Troy and Chele did not have any digital footprint while camping in the forest as well. And if the hunters already are stalking the contacts mails, they already have the contact's information anyway. It's just shady or not properly explained on the show.

Yeah thanks to all the replies above here and I agree this seems producer faked.  No way could a reality show actually get the US Post Office to turn over these images to them.  At least I hope there is no way.  Add that into how they decided to check out their snail mail and not anybody else and this show is getting more and more amateur-grade fake by the hour.

[millennium]

On 1/25/2017 at 9:59 PM, NYGirl said:

 

I think it's going to be David and Emily for the win for some reason.  

Maybe because they've gotten what's increasingly looking like a winner's edit.  

I hate that the rules of this game aren't spelled out.   While watching, I'm thinking "they should do this" or "they should do that" and every thought is followed by "but can they?"

[millennium]

On 1/28/2017 at 8:30 AM, wings707 said:

Replicated for broadcast is the staging of the war room.  In real life you don't have everyone in the same room like a shuttle launch.  

If they're not staging it, the woman with the red hair wore the same jacket and top for the entire 18 days Troy and Chele were on the run. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Where Will Hunted Go Next?

A double-sized episode means twice as many out-of-the-way houses and farms to hide out in.

[millennium]

From Tara's piece:

This segment features a great many mentions of a particular brand of air gun, because Troy and Chele own a store devoted to its products. I will not be mentioning its name, because I didn't get a piece of whatever bag of money made its way to CBS. But it gets mentioned a LOT.

Escape Room was flogged pretty heavily too, because one of the Hunted owns an Escape Room business.  

Something smells funny (although maybe it's Troy and Chele, they were out there a long time).

Was I alone in thinking that when Angela and Michele's friend said they wanted to go to the salon to clean up, they were going to have a mini Hunted version of a spa day?   I didn't think they were actually going to clean up.  But there they were, sweeping up hair and stuff.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

Was I alone in thinking that when Angela and Michele's friend said they wanted to go to the salon to clean up, they were going to have a mini Hunted version of a spa day?   I didn't think they were actually going to clean up.  But there they were, sweeping up hair and stuff.

My impression was they were doing the cleanup as payment for spa services. 

Don't think any actual styling services ever got rendered, though; they got spooked and tried to rabbit before a single hair ever got snipped.

[rwgrab]

On 1/30/2017 at 9:08 PM, millennium said:

Was I alone in thinking that when Angela and Michele's friend said they wanted to go to the salon to clean up, they were going to have a mini Hunted version of a spa day?   I didn't think they were actually going to clean up.  But there they were, sweeping up hair and stuff.

Ha!  Me, too!  I thought "what a great idea to change up your look a bit and relax!".  Then there they were with a broom and dust rag!  My guess was that there was some rule that said they had to work to earn any extra money (meaning no panhandling or just getting a stack of cash from one of their friends).

[califred]

I thought they were going to get their hair done too not actually clean.

[Mystery]

I assumed it was to earn money. 

[Bryce Lynch]

On 1/25/2017 at 8:22 PM, NYGirl said:

I see the burner phones but it seems to do no good.  I don't think it's fair that they talked to the one woman's daughter.  

Maybe the best idea would be to borrow somebody's phone that they don't know about.  Someone who normally keeps in touch with the family so as to not send up a red flag.

I love the man-child and Lee. I bet they go far and maybe win the whole thing.

Talking to the woman's daughter was fair.  It would happen in a real life situation.  Her daughter telling the hunters the identity of the 3rd Musketeer was idiotic, though she is just a teenager.  That would have been a great opportunity for misdirection.  Tell the daughter to give the name of a different BFF.

[Bryce Lynch]

On 1/27/2017 at 0:36 AM, loki567 said:

Yeah, I recognize that but how does this show in particular have any sort of legal justification to go through the friend's phone without the force of law behind them? It's shady if they decided to hack the friend, figuring they wouldn't get in trouble. Otherwise, it means it's not just the contestants, but the friends of the contestants also had to sign forms allowing them to go through their stuff. Which also shady. 

I am pretty sure a lot of the surveillance techniques they use on 3rd party phones, etc. must be simulated (or fake).  There is no way they would be given access to recorded phone conversations by the NSA or whoever for a reality show.  They probably use the audio from the camera crews following the "fugitives" around to make those recordings they "intercepted" to simulate what real law enforcement might be able to do.