S01.E06: We Pretend We're Stuck

[formerlyfreedom]

Letty Raines returns to her hometown armed with a new plan to take custody of her son, Jacob, with Javier's help. But Letty is confronted with the stark realities of motherhood when a day with her son turns into a crisis that could send her back to prison.

[magdalene]

Tiffany! I really liked you in this episode.  Oh, damn, maybe there would have been a chance for their marriage if Kyle  "just" had the drug habit to kick, but now with the revelation that Kyle is cheating on Tiffany with guys, bummer!  Poor Tiff.

So Letty clued in that being a parent doesn't just involve giving them hugs and sweetness and light.

Rob cracks me up. He is one of those people who has no filter for what's appropriate to share.  When he was showing Javier his "enhanced" penis and Javier remained sort of unflappable but amused at the same time I just sort of lost it and started giggling. 

Speaking of Javier, he makes me feel all melty.  It's ridiculous for me to feel this way about a fictional guy. In so many ways the series is showing him as the ideal man.  Sensitive. Thoughtful.  Truly likes Letty.  Good with her kid. He can cook.  I have to constantly remind myself that he kills people for a living.  I guess nobody is perfect. Ha.

Christian got arested.  That was fast.

[thesupremediva1]

I would have a kid just to watch him play soccer with Juan Diego Botto.

"He thinks my name is Pablo."

"It should be Pablo." That exchange made me cackle.

I like that Tiffany turned out to be helpful and forgiving. She's not such a glittery c-word after all. She could end up being an important ally for Letty.

The mother is a wonderfully complex creature. She's correct to keep Jacob. Letty is not at all equipped to raise a kid. I'm rooting for Letty to get herself together, but more than anything, I'm hoping her journey takes her to a place where she reconciles herself with the reality that she is not capable with being a full-time parent. Hopefully she can find a positive, stable role in Jacob's life that isn't legal guardian.

The dinner scene was August Osage County meets Shameless and I require more of that. 

[alias1]

I really liked this episode, and yeah, Javier is great, except he kills people.  The Pablo thing was funny.  Juan Diego Botto has such great expressions.  Actually, Michelle does too.

Poor Tiffany.

I didn't exactly understand how Christian got arrested. 

Next week looks good, too, having dinner with Javier's family.

[Nanu160]

I'm invested, Yes I'm ALL IN. HAVE NOT FELT THIS WAY ABOUT A FICTIONAL SHOW!  ...sinCE the Sopranos! GO LETTY! I LOVE U JAVIER!

I'm invested, Yes I'm ALL IN. HAVE NOT FELT THIS WAY ABOUT A FICTIONAL SHOW!  ...sinCE the Sopranos! GO LETTY! I LOVE U JAVIER!

Oops, double post, please forgive, I get emotional bout dis show!

[Lonesome Rhodes]

FBI lady would be on to Letty in about 3.6 nanoseconds, give or take.  Parole boss would instantly tell her about Letty - and that he already had a bench warrant out for her arrest.  

Dealing with a loner kid who shoplifted?  How many stores would not make FREAKING CERTAIN there was always at least two peeps with him at all times and would then verify ten ways from Tuesday the guardian/rents who came for him?  When there were  not one, but TWO phony adults who had come to claim him?  Cops.  Every time.  Who would arrive following the 911 call.

Going to the baseball game and being conspicuous?  Next time, hire an aerobatic pilot to sky write LETTY IS HERE!

I so want to love this show.  Man.  

OK.  Truly the worst?  Jacob is his mother's son.  There is no way to square the circle that every contact is illegal, which only feeds his inclination to cheat.  If she is truly gone for good?  Cool.  But, we all know she'll keep contacting him and coming back.  

I think heroin lawyer is legit bi.  The guy he was with was pretty hot.  I don't think he would be that desperate to pay for that.

[Nanu160]

I'm about to hire an Aerobatic Sky Writer to write  GO LETTY, GO

[TaraS1]

8 hours ago, magdalene said:

Tiffany! I really liked you in this episode.  Oh, damn, maybe there would have been a chance for their marriage if Kyle  "just" had the drug habit to kick, but now with the revelation that Kyle is cheating on Tiffany with guys, bummer!  Poor Tiff.

Speaking of Javier, he makes me feel all melty.  It's ridiculous for me to feel this way about a fictional guy. In so many ways the series is showing him as the ideal man.  Sensitive. Thoughtful.  Truly likes Letty.  Good with her kid. He can cook.  I have to constantly remind myself that he kills people for a living.  I guess nobody is perfect. Ha.

I really liked Tiffany here too.  Well, I actually liked her (and the actress) the last time also, so I was pleasantly surprised when she showed up.  I think the typical writing on any other show would have us never seeing Tiffany again after everything that happened in her last episode, so I'm happy the writing here continues to generally be anything but typical.  Plus, it's nice to know that Jacob has another fairly stable adult in his life besides Estelle and Rob lol.

And of course ITA about Pablo Javier.  Even if he didn't have all the amazing qualities you mentioned, just the way he looks at her in all her screwed-up, insecure glory is....*sigh*  We need another love scene ASAP.

8 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

I would have a kid just to watch him play soccer with Juan Diego Botto.

"He thinks my name is Pablo."

"It should be Pablo." That exchange made me cackle.

I like that Tiffany turned out to be helpful and forgiving. She's not such a glittery c-word after all. She could end up being an important ally for Letty.

The mother is a wonderfully complex creature. She's correct to keep Jacob. Letty is not at all equipped to raise a kid. I'm rooting for Letty to get herself together, but more than anything, I'm hoping her journey takes her to a place where she reconciles herself with the reality that she is not capable with being a full-time parent. Hopefully she can find a positive, stable role in Jacob's life that isn't legal guardian.

The dinner scene was August Osage County meets Shameless and I require more of that. 

I think we're in luck because next week's dinner scene looks like an equally delightful shitshow! And ditto to your thoughts on Tiffany, as well as the importance of populating the earth with more kids for JDB to teach soccer.  

Actually, all of Javier's interactions with Jacob made me love him even more.  When he saw the nasty texts from Jacob's teammates and turned the car around, I seriously thought they were going back to the baseball field to kick some ass, which would've been awesome (albeit a bit too conspicuous).  But a trip to ShopMaxx for soccer gear was good too.  (And kudos to Jacob for coming up with that "Aunt Becky is famous and all the Grand Theft Auto prostitutes were modeled after her" story!)

I think what I love most about this beautiful show, besides the joy that is Michelle and JDB together, is that we get all these great little moments with the characters and even when things are dark and depressing for them, not everything is high!stakes!drama! all the time.  It makes for a much more enjoyable show IMO.

[abbyzenn]

Guess I'm in the minority but I didn't like this episode -  took me three times to get through the whole thing.  I thought it was boring - the worst so far.  Can't really put my finger on just what  it was or why.

Does Letty really think her mom is going to put all that money in a college fund?

[thesupremediva1]

Quote

Does Letty really think her mom is going to put all that money in a college fund?

I immediately had that thought. Her mother is not exactly a saint; she's going to blow that money on booze and Botox. I think part of leaving the money behind was Letty clearing her conscience - giving what she could to prove to her mother that she did have enough to take Jacob off her hands.

Whether Jacob gets the money or not, she did her best. She also cannot do any more than that considering the restraining order and the fact that the money was stolen.

[attica]

Such great line deliveries from everybody. Even JDB's little throwaway 'THANK you' when Jacob asked 'don't you call it futbol?'.

Even though it is a public computer, I do hope Javier clears his cache. Cameras have time stamps, so do browser histories.

I was giggling with glee to see the great Ann Dowd as the motherfucking FBI. Slurping and belching and flashing the tin. So awesome. Even Terry McKinney, who is no acting slouch, raised his game when she was in the room. Alls they need now is a cameo from Margo Martindale, and I'll be set.

This show is way better than my expectations for it. I love it when that happens.

[BingeyKohan]

This show always goes somewhere unexpected, and truly feels serialized - I don't even get the sense that much time has passed since Letty and Javier met. This episode did drag for me a little -- I thought they spent too long in Faux-Mart -- but I was glad I hung in. Obviously they're setting it up that Jacob inherited many of Letty's traits, but I was unclear on the 'interrogation' scene, was the Loss Control guy trying to say that Jacob actually has a history of thefts there, and that he was onto the fact that it's a sophisticated enough operation that he has someone fencing the goods for him later? Or was that just a convoluted intimidation technique and way to create a parallel with both Christian and Jacob being in a position to rat Letty out? I couldn't tell if it was a one-off and he really did just want to get something his Mom seemed to want, or if her picking it up was a coincidence-slash-showing they had the same taste in stolen goods.

[TaraS1]

55 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

I immediately had that thought. Her mother is not exactly a saint; she's going to blow that money on booze and Botox. I think part of leaving the money behind was Letty clearing her conscience - giving what she could to prove to her mother that she did have enough to take Jacob off her hands.

Whether Jacob gets the money or not, she did her best. She also cannot do any more than that considering the restraining order and the fact that the money was stolen.

ITA that it's about the best Letty can do at this point.  But I do hope she can find a way to maintain some kind of relationship with him.

As for Estelle, I don't trust her not to spend some of the money, but I think I do tentatively trust her not to spend the majority of it.  And with this family, that's about the best you can ask for.

Also, re: Jacob, was that his father on the Myrtle Beach Hardbodies commercial?  I know we saw him briefly a couple of episodes ago, but I wasn't paying close enough attention to make sure it was the same actor.  I think it might've been, though.

2 minutes ago, attica said:

I was giggling with glee to see the great Ann Dowd as the motherfucking FBI. Slurping and belching and flashing the tin. So awesome. Even Terry McKinney, who is no acting slouch, raised his game when she was in the room. Alls they need now is a cameo from Margo Martindale, and I'll be set.

This show is way better than my expectations for it. I love it when that happens.

Same here re: my expectations.  I posted after the first episode that I was prepared to slog my way through it even if it sucked because I liked Michelle so much on Downton, but surprise - it's awesome!  It's definitely my TV happy place.

I cracked up when Christian said something about how they do the same kind of work or something and Ann Dowd is all, "I'm a motherfucking FBI agent, we do NOT do the same thing!" Ha!  Great casting there.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Kyle! Wonder if that was just for his drug habit or if he's bi or gay. Either way,  it's sad that he's cheating on his wife.

Javier is the best. He went way, way beyond the call of duty for Letty.

Guess Letty's mom is certain her boytoy won't sleep with someone else and bring back an STD to her? Condoms aren't just to prevent pregnancy but apparently Rob is a product of an "abstinence only" school system (if he got any real sex education at all, that is).

Set for life? Estelle will spend most if not all of that money on herself and some guy. She probably paid for Rob's penis implant. Letty gets free of her guilt about leaving Jacob behind though. (Also, it was smart of them to address that Jacob doesn't look at all like he has a White parent.)

[TaraS1]

Javier, indignantly:  His mother is black.

LOL!

[SunnyBeBe]

My concern with the money would be how Letty's mom keeps it.  Let's hope she's smart enough NOT to try to deposit it into a bank account.  That would trigger IRS people with a bunch of questions.  I mean you can keep things in the freezer, lock box, etc., but a thief or the government knows where to look for stuff.  I guess we are supposed to believe that she will figure it out. 

I look forward to Letty moving on with some adventures.  (Leave Jacob alone and get yourself straight.)

There are always some scene or some lines that crack me up.  Last night was when Letty was talking to Tiffany about her husband and his drug problem.  Letty said, well, most people who do drugs the first time, don't start out thinking they are going to end up *u*#ing d*ck under a bridge somewhere.  lol  Then, when she walked in on the guy!  Too funny. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

 Let's hope she's smart enough NOT to try to deposit it into a bank account.  That would trigger IRS people with a bunch of questions.  I mean you can keep things in the freezer, lock box, etc., but a thief or the government knows where to look for stuff. 

She'd better find a way to launder it so she has plausible deniability of where it came from.

[magdalene]

I think at the ball game Javier drank a child's juice drink familiar to me from my childhood in various European countries. I didn't know they have this drink in the US.

[zxy556575]

I want Letty and Javier to be more careful, for crissake. Makes me tense. I'm also conflicted about rooting for a hired killer to get away with it, but there it is.

Letty and Javier have such mad chemistry (and this from someone who wasn't that impressed with Michelle's acting in Downton). I think Botto lifts her up.

If anybody watches/tried to watch The Catch, I think this show is what they were going for.

Edited December 16, 2016 by lordonia

[talktoomuch]

22 hours ago, magdalene said:

Tiffany! I really liked you in this episode.  Oh, damn, maybe there would have been a chance for their marriage if Kyle  "just" had the drug habit to kick, but now with the revelation that Kyle is cheating on Tiffany with guys, bummer!  Poor Tiff.

I knew Tiffany and Letty were real friends! When she was on before all of their initial interactions (picking Letty up from the airport, giving her a place to stay, helping her find an apartment) pointed to trye friendship. And Tiffany shared how stressed she was about her imploding marriage. It was only when she thought Letty was participating in the implosion that she got douchey. Not unexpected when Tiffany was already worried about Kyle.

[TaraS1]

6 hours ago, magdalene said:

I think at the ball game Javier drank a child's juice drink familiar to me from my childhood in various European countries. I didn't know they have this drink in the US.

Oh yes, we most definitely have Capri Sun here. I'm sure I drank gallons of the stuff when I was a kid. Which just made it extra adorable to see Javier sipping on one. Nice little touch, show!

[Nanu160]

CapriSun, put them in the freezer, best Popsicles EVER! Also keeps shit cold in cooler because they stay frozen forever, like little juicy icebergs!

Edited December 15, 2016 by Nanu160
Bad salad

[helenamonster]

"You told my nieces you delete vaginas from Instagram." Never change, Javier!

This episode really gave a whole new dimension to Letty's relationship with Jacob. She thinks of parenthood as this magical rainbows and sunshine thing where you shower your child with gifts and fun times and they love you unconditionally. But they eventually outgrow their favorite fast food place. They want to spend hours kicking a ball around, they wander away in the store, and they shoplift (okay, not all kids on that last one but some of us *raises hand* had sticky fingers in our youth). "He was annoying. I was annoyed by him." was such a great line because it described the frustrations of parenthood so succinctly. Most parents figure that out when their kid is a toddler but with Letty being so absent from Jacob's life, she's just realizing this now.

Part of me was kind of enjoying how slick Jacob was for a 10-year-old, but the other part of me realized that Letty is a poor influence on him and until she can get her shit together (doubtful) she really should stay away.

I too liked bringing Tiffany back into the story. She had every right to be mad at Letty when she thought she had brought heroin into her home (and left it where her kids would find it) and was sleeping with her husband. But she did Letty a solid this episode and I completely believe them as old friends. Even Letty lying to Tiffany and telling her that Kyle wasn't in his office. She probably remembered how Tiffany had reacted to the whole "sucking dick under a bridge thing" and didn't want to drop that bomb on her.

13 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

This show always goes somewhere unexpected, and truly feels serialized - I don't even get the sense that much time has passed since Letty and Javier met. This episode did drag for me a little -- I thought they spent too long in Faux-Mart -- but I was glad I hung in. Obviously they're setting it up that Jacob inherited many of Letty's traits, but I was unclear on the 'interrogation' scene, was the Loss Control guy trying to say that Jacob actually has a history of thefts there, and that he was onto the fact that it's a sophisticated enough operation that he has someone fencing the goods for him later? Or was that just a convoluted intimidation technique and way to create a parallel with both Christian and Jacob being in a position to rat Letty out? I couldn't tell if it was a one-off and he really did just want to get something his Mom seemed to want, or if her picking it up was a coincidence-slash-showing they had the same taste in stolen goods.

I think the loss prevention guy assumed that Jacob was part of some larger operation where some adult was having young children shoplift expensive goods so that he could sell them. There is no reason for a 10-year-old boy to want a gold women's watch ("What are you going to do, wear it to social studies?" "Maybe!") unless he was working for an adult ringleader.

I did think the two interrogation scenes where nicely paralleled though. After all, who was the main influence behind both of the thefts? Letty. She's a bit toxic, honestly.

11 hours ago, TaraS1 said:

Javier, indignantly:  His mother is black.

LOL!

"He doesn't even look a little bit like...whatever you are."

Just now, Nanu160 said:

CaprivSun, put them in the freezer, best Popsicles EVER! Alsos keeps shit cold in cooler

I can't believe I went my entire childhood without knowing this trick. Now I have to go buy some Capri Suns (I do miss them terribly).

[zxy556575]

At the start of the episode when Letty was so angry at Javier for accusing her of stealing the money, she had me convinced for a minute, too. I thought maybe I'd forgotten something from the previous episode.

I was surprised Javier let her keep it.

[TaraS1]

I rewatched the episode last night and Tiffany's "Bitch, are you serious?" to Jacob's fake mother was even funnier the second time around.  And that actress has to be a true Southerner with that accent.  I really enjoy her. *off to see if she's on Twitter...*

IMDb tells me today is Michelle's 35th birthday, so...happy birthday to our favorite con artist/meth head/high school English teacher/ghostwriter of The Girl on the Train and deleter of Instagram vaginas!

[Nanu160]

Girl that plays Tiffany also was good as Edgar's Girlfriend , Dorothy in  "You're The Worst" on FXX

[talktoomuch]

10 hours ago, helenamonster said:

I did think the two interrogation scenes where nicely paralleled though. After all, who was the main influence behind both of the thefts? Letty. She's a bit toxic, honestly.

This ^^^^ all day! I didn't pick up the parallels until you pointed them out. Nicely done Show and @helenamonster!

I really <3 this Show for showing us our protagonist's unhealthy influence on the two people in her life who least deserve to be pulled into her machinations. It really paints a picture of a whole person who is damaged but loving but also dangerous. This bucks against the trope of the thief/druggie with a heart of gold whose only damage is to herself. Nope she's hurting other people too, one of which is her innocent 10 year old son.

[attica]

Is is wrong of me to want an episode or twenty of Letty, Javier, and Jacob running grifts in a team? Always just a step ahead of the motherfucking FBI?

Don't wanna be right, if so.

[Hanahope]

I was wondering where Letty hid the money initially, since she threw her near empty purse at Javier at first, then later on we see it filled with money.

Yes Letty, kids are annoying.  You only put up with it because you see it as typical behavior every day, but you also get the hugs everyday.  I hope that her mother is smart with the money and hides at least some it to save for the future for Jacob.  At first I thought this woman who walked behind Letty and Javier in ShopMaxx when he was on the computer and overheard Letty exclaim about the guy sodemizing a horse, gave them a disgusted look and took/reported Jacob.  Of course Jacob would want to steal for Letty, since that is what he knows she does.  Kids always want to impress their parents.  They are lucky Jacob finally gave Tiff's name and number and she had figured out Letty wasn't the one who left the heroin.

So little nit-pick about Javier being able to acess the deep/dark web while at the store.  I know when I've used a store's wifi, the signal is fairly weak and/or being shared with so many people that I can barely use it for anything other than text messages and maybe email.  I seriously doubt he could access the deep/dark web so easily in the store.

On 12/13/2016 at 11:43 PM, SierraMist said:

didn't exactly understand how Christian got arrested.

So by this time, the hotel found the nerdy type guy tied up with $11,000, and he'll spill the beans on Letty and Christian, give descriptions, etc.  Additionally, the guy that Letty lifted the wallet from and gave the ID and credit card to Christian (who used it to "check into" the hotel/pretend to be the nerdy guy (Sanderson) in order to get the key to Sanderson's room where they stole the money from Sanderson), reported the theft.  The cops/fbi realized that this guy looked a little bit like the guy Sanderson described, so its probably the same guy that stole from Sanderson.  Christian accidently used that guy's credit card (because it was the same bank as his own credit card and thus looked the same) to buy gas and Cheese-its at a gas station that uses camera/video security.  So the credit card use was flagged and the cops came to the gas station and saw the security footage, which showed Christian.  I'm guessing that because Christian is a parol officer, his photo is in the police/government data base and they easily identified him.

[attica]

49 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I seriously doubt he could access the deep/dark web so easily in the store.

It's no harder to access the deep web than it is the 'normal' web. 'Deep' just refers to not showing up in search engines and such. If you know your deep url, you just...go there. For dark sites, you need a specific browser, which, I agree, the Not-Mart is unlikely to have installed on its display computers. But strength of wifi signal is immaterial in either case. 

[zxy556575]

A couple of minor points that made me itch a bit:

When Letty was on the phone with 911 and the store paged for his parents, just say, "Oh my god, never mind, he just came home" or something similar. Anybody would. Abruptly hanging up is what prompted the cops to come poking around later. Letty was wigging out about losing Jacob but she's supposed to be a smooth con artist.

Leaving stacks of money in plain sight on the kitchen table when cops were at the door was also stupid.

[SunnyBeBe]

5 hours ago, lordonia said:

A couple of minor points that made me itch a bit:

When Letty was on the phone with 911 and the store paged for his parents, just say, "Oh my god, never mind, he just came home" or something similar. Anybody would. Abruptly hanging up is what prompted the cops to come poking around later. Letty was wigging out about losing Jacob but she's supposed to be a smooth con artist.

Leaving stacks of money in plain sight on the kitchen table when cops were at the door was also stupid.

Good points and I agree.  The writing would have us believe certain things about Letty's character that border on brilliant, but other things that are just common sense, they drop the ball and have her act very inconsistent with her character.  I don't like that.  It seems contrived and and just a plot device.  They could do better, but, I suppose it's easier to just make do, even if it doesn't make sense. 

[gibasi]

I think Estelle is bitchy to Letty but I believe that she is a good Nana to Jacob.  Just look at her house.  It is huge, nicely kept and it is not a trailer.  She signs Jacob up for Little League, limits his tv, plays games with him.  I believe she loves him and wants what is best for him.   Now maybe she was an awful mother to Letty and is making up for it with Jacob.  Or maybe Letty was a difficult child and a more difficult teen.  Maybe she has given Letty a thousand chances and been burned every time.

I like Estelle.  And I love the complexity of her relationship with her daughter.  Who she still loves despite knowing all her faults.

Leaving the money on the table might have been dumb but it was such a nice visual that I understand the writers leaving it in.

[rose711]

 Just started watching the show and I am ambivalent about making Michelle's character to seem fun and even good when she's really a huge destructive force. Not so much of a fan .

it's more like watching to see whose life she's going to destroy the next week.

Javier is gorgeous so of course he's bringing a tons of tons of appeal to the show.

 Wondering how people feel about her the show mocking Alcoholics Anonymous and all 12-step philosophy. I'm sure this is what alcoholics do and what addicts do but the counterbalance is missing and she seems to be having fun Destroying herself.

[TaraS1]

11 hours ago, gibasi said:

I think Estelle is bitchy to Letty but I believe that she is a good Nana to Jacob.  Just look at her house.  It is huge, nicely kept and it is not a trailer.  She signs Jacob up for Little League, limits his tv, plays games with him.  I believe she loves him and wants what is best for him.   Now maybe she was an awful mother to Letty and is making up for it with Jacob.  Or maybe Letty was a difficult child and a more difficult teen.  Maybe she has given Letty a thousand chances and been burned every time.

I like Estelle.  And I love the complexity of her relationship with her daughter.  Who she still loves despite knowing all her faults.

I don't like Estelle, but I do like that we're seeing flashes of her being more complex than when we first met her, even if I still don't quite understand where they're going with her or how they want us to perceive her.  But I think everything you said about her is likely - that she wasn't a very good mother to Letty, that she's sick of having been burned by Letty a million times and that, most importantly, she does love and take good care of Jacob.  I just wish they hadn't done the $1000/visit thing.  That really turned me off her in a way that everything else about her didn't.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

Wondering how people feel about her the show mocking Alcoholics Anonymous and all 12-step philosophy. I'm sure this is what alcoholics do and what addicts do but the counterbalance is missing and she seems to be having fun Destroying herself.

12 step programs don't work for everyone and yet are held up as a sort of sacred cow. I have at least one friend who swears by NA for saving his life and one who found AA to be a ridiculous waste of time for people with less than catastrophic drinking problems.  Having attended meetings with friends, I think it's heavy handed and infantilizes the participants ("You will ALWAYS be an alcoholic, you will ALWAYS be sick, you CAN NOT control your drinking, the only answer to never ever ever drink again and if you do, YOU HAVE FAILED and must repeat all 12 steps like the loser you are" - some people need this, but some don't and AA doesn't encourage other methods)

That said, while I am loving Michelle Dockery in this role, Lettie's level of addiction doesn't make any sense and appears to have utterly no impact on her health. She doesn't appear to have the self control to not casually drink despite being an alcoholic, she had no trouble finding someone to buy meth from and indulged.... and has no appearance issues despite an apparently heavy meth problem. Prison ain't so good for dental care, you know.

I like this show but so many background things don't make sense. Why does Lettie, who was clearly raised in a small southern town, have an Upstate NY Radio Accent? Yes I am aware Michelle is doing an accent but why a Yankee accent when her mother and school mates/prior friends all have some southern twang? Lettie comes off very well educated for a high school drop out. She's also super tech savvy, and super fashion savvy and super current event savvy for someone who is fresh out of a long prison sentence. So it's distracting. But Michelle's killer performances are helping ease my disquiet - I sure wish we'd seen this sort of performance in season six of Downton Abbey.

[gibasi]

13 hours ago, rose711 said:

 

 Wondering how people feel about her the show mocking Alcoholics Anonymous and all 12-step philosophy. I'm sure this is what alcoholics do and what addicts do but the counterbalance is missing and she seems to be having fun Destroying herself.

This is why I do not recommend the show to everyone because of this and its flexible morality.  And I am not talking about Javiar’s occupation.  It is Letty who does use people and encouraged Christian to fall off the wagon.  That bothered me a lot.  And I am not a big fan of AA but it has undoubtedly saved the lives of people I know and love.  I am able to fan wave a lot of stuff and so right now I am watching it.  I really cannot see much future for the show though.  One and done is what I think and I think the writing backs me up!  

[Nanu160]

I still don't understand the doom and gloom of the folks who are predicting the demise of show after one season. Perhaps they don't see see the many many potential avenues to explore here.

For example, each of these characters, except for maybe penis implant guy,  so far have tremendous issues and history, lots of stories to tell here.

[attica]

42 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Why does Lettie, who was clearly raised in a small southern town, have an Upstate NY Radio Accent?

I have noticed that the degree of thickness of southern accents vary widely, even among people from the same place, with a non-zero chunk of southerners I've met sporting more neutral accents. Part of it is education, part of it is family influence, part of it is the influence of tv and movies. A grifter like Lettie would work to master several accents, if only as an accessory to her wigs!

 

14 hours ago, rose711 said:

Wondering how people feel about her the show mocking Alcoholics Anonymous and all 12-step philosophy.

Made me laugh. As ZoloftBob says, I find the air of The Program Cannot Fail, It Can Only Be Failed less than helpful. It wants mocking. But also, it might just be a bit of gallows humor on Lettie and Christian's part. 

[ZoloftBlob]

Attica - I get you, I really do - I just find it odd that Lettie's mom has a very noticeable southern accent but Lettie sounds like a Northerner, except when she's clearly putting on a southern accent.  I agree as a grafter she would have some accents to work with, I just find it odd that her base accent is so northern and so completely different than her mother's.

I think the naysaying isn't about the show being interesting but that the ratings haven't been great. Most of my issues are pretty nitpicky all things considered and the acting on the show is pretty damn good.

[SunnyBeBe]

Letty has poured out a southern accent on occasion. She uses whatever is needed to help suit her case.  I think it's less distracting to limit the southern accent to certain occasions.  And, I'm from NC where the show is filmed.  There are quite a few people in NC who do not have southern accents, however, most of them are from larger cities like Raleigh, Durham, Charlotte, Greensboro, etc, (all campus towns) AND they had parents or school teachers who are not NC natives.  A lot of my friend's kids grew up with only a slight southern accent, since most of their school teachers were from the North and did not have one.  I think Letty most have just worked on hers, since she likes to be a chameleon.

[JunebugTx]

I am actually enjoying this show - and I wasn't sure I would after the first episode.  But I think that may have been because I missed the first five minutes because I was on the phone, so I think I missed the setup.  And I think there are lots of ways this show could go.  So we'll see.  I was a little taken aback by the sex in the first 2 episodes, and wondered if that was something we were going to be seeing every episode.  I am not a prude by any means, but that's not the kind of sex you usually see on TV!

As far as the accent issue - it doesn't bother me.  I think Letty could have decided that she didn't want to have the southern accent, so she worked on not having one.  I had a professor in college who had an accent no one could quite place.  It turns out she was from Texas (where we were), but didn't want to have a Texas twang.  She went to a diction coach to get rid of it.  Letty seems smart enough that she could do that for herself.

[TaraS1]

Just a comment about Letty's accent...in episode three, when Christian pulls up her info to try and get contact numbers for her family/friends, it shows a list of her former addresses. Most were in the Carolinas, but there were also some in Virginia, Maryland and even NYC. 

[attica]

3 hours ago, TaraS1 said:

there were also some in Virginia

Iirc, she told the temp agency recruiter she was in prison in VA. :) 

[Nanu160]

Nitpickers! This show is good! Enjoy!

Accents blah! Reality, blah, not important!, This FICTION is Fun to see.

[helenamonster]

I don't think the show is trying to give any commentary on AA or the Twelve Steps, but I think it makes sense for Letty's character (and Christian's, a little bit) to mock the program. I don't have any direct experience with AA, but from what I do know about it I could see how some recovering alcoholics/addicts could find it to be a bit overkill. Letty already hates herself enough for choosing a lifestyle that prevents her from being with her son, and I think she would resent being told that by strangers. Her motivational app has been all about positive reinforcement and boosting of her self-esteem; she does not want people to tell her that she's fucking up and needs to do better, she wants to believe there's nothing wrong with her and that she's not a terrible person even if she pretty much refuses to change her ways. Her endgame seems to be to find a way to keep running cons and get guardianship of Jacob, a goal that AA would not support.

[rose711]

I think it makes sense for the characters to mock the program. It was a little gut wrenching for me to see these alcoholics destroying themselves and mocking something that might (or might not)help them. It may be true to life but as much as Lettie says she wants her son back pretty much all she does is geared against that. I think she's just about too far gone for him to even pull her back.

What I don't like about the show is how Lettie just destroys everyone (except the hot guy murderer) with such panache that she seems fun and engaging and the person you want to cheer on. Yet her son steals to be like her and she roots him on. She got one woman murdered by interfering. Her parole officer is going to federal prison because he came looking for her so she wouldn't have to go to jail.

Just waiting for her mom to suffer more because she let Lettie violate a restraining order repeatedly. And her son to be in foster care. Triggering Lettie into more self hate and justifying her self destruction and addiction.

The acting is good, the costumes are gorgeous, the writing is pretty strong, the directing good.

i guess I just don't enjoy some charming con man/ addict destroy everything around her while she's on some case of the week thing. She doesn't have an upward arc. Maybe that is what depresses me about this show.

The people who try to help her get ruined, her Mom who has given up on her in many ways, is made to be the bad guy. 

The problem is the complete and absolute lack of any balancing force that isn't a complete monster.

like,wtf,learn to type? It takes a couple of weeks. She's really not interested in changing despite her claims to the contrary.

Edited December 18, 2016 by rose711

[helenamonster]

I think what I like about Letty is that while her character type isn't exactly rare, the idea of having a lead female character be this toxic and self-destructive kind of is. We've seen a lot of male characters like Letty over the years who may have some good intentions but who end up ruining the lives of people around them, both intentionally and unintentionally. There's this new trend of using these same archetypes but having them be played by women which I am really enjoying. I like having a complex, dangerous-to-herself-and-others antiheroine in Letty while I wait for the similar Annalise Keating on How to Get Away with Murder to come back from hiatus.

I realize that this type of character is not for everybody, but I think it's intentional on the part of the show. Just because Letty is the protagonist doesn't mean we have to like her or root for her. Sometimes we do, because Michelle Dockery is killing this role, but it's more about watching this woman give lip service to wanting her life back on track while also being unable and unwilling to give up her dangerous vices. We're supposed to be frustrated by her.

[rose711]

I guess my frustration is the destruction she causes everyone around her. To me it seems like the show wants you to cheer for her and dismiss the people she ends up destroying or even causing to be killed.

Her Mom is viewed as a terrible person for keeping her from her son, but on the second visit with her son she takes him from baseball and applauds and encourages all of the poor choices he makes. She's a terrible person to have in his life. But I think we are supposed to sympathize with her.

I don't think my issue is because she's a woman. I think my issue is the lack of balance or even a grey area between her life and the life of outside"normal" people. It's too extreme. I think I would have a problem with this is any show to be honest

Edited December 18, 2016 by rose711

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

Her Mom is viewed as a terrible person for keeping her from her son,

Disagree! At least in my case. I think Letty's mom is a terrible person for knowing that Letty is a terrible influence and cheerfully forcing Letty to pay her a thousand dollars for the privilege of seeing her son AND leaving the two of them completely unsupervised while she's off fucking Letty's old boyfriend.

Estelle (her name is Estelle right?) may be raising Jacob well, but she knows Letty is a terrible person and for a thousand dollars sells her grandson to the daughter she knows can't be trusted.  What she should be doing is CALLING THE COPS because if Letty can't type more than eight words a minute and has no high school degree, then she is doing something illegal as hell to get the kind of cash she's casually leaving everywhere.

Letty as a character reminds me of Walter White on Breaking Bad. You understand why she's doing things that are wrong... but you also know its a train wreck and no matter what she does, it's a shitty choice. She's never legally going to get custody of her son, she's never going to legally make decent money... but all of the illegal choices she is making are wrecking havoc on the ones she supposedly loves.