S08.E06: Detoured on Some Random Backwoods Path to Hell

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

When her children become the focus of the Siren’s latest plan, Caroline takes drastic measures to ensure nothing gets in the way of keeping her family safe. In a race against the clock, Stefan pledges to do everything he can to save the twins, while tensions between Alaric and Caroline boil over, leading them to face some harsh realities about the future of their family. Meanwhile, when Enzo finds himself unable to fight off Sybil’s latest move, Stefan dives into his subconscious and along the way, sets off a chain of events that leaves him faced with a life-changing decision.

Promo:

 

Clip:

 

Inside the episode:

[Terrafamilia]

Rick, Rick, Rick. You don't just drive a stake through the heart. You also cut off the head, burn the parts separately, and scatter the ashes.

[prospazzinator]

Oh no! Damon is dead! Yawn.

And we still aren't rid of these freaking sirens?! Sigh.

And over here we have Bonnie and Enzo crying and declaring their undying love for one another because we've haven't seen that at all this season.

I did enjoy Matt being a good influence and getting Alaric to stake Damon. Should have let him keep punching for a bit longer though, Matt!

[formerlyfreedom]

The sirens were granted immortality for their servitude to Cade, right? So I assume that Damon and Stefan get the same thing. So yeah, I was pretty much like, whatever when Ric staked Damon.

Bored now.

[PinkRibbons]

Not that I'm averse to Damon getting stabbed to horrible death, but that felt slightly undeserved. Even if it was entirely for his own ends (which frankly, I doubt -- I do suspect at least a teeny kernel of Damon was not into sacrificing his former best friend's babies), by substituting himself and Stefan for the twins, Damon actually saved Alaric's kids. Did someone not mention that? And how was it Damon's fault at all that Sybill was torturing Enzo, which apparently was also part of Matt's reason for helping in the Damon-murder? Not to mention no one ever thought, hey, literally the only person who still loves Damon just did basically all the heroing and sacrificing in this episode and probably wouldn't appreciate having his brother randomly killed on top of that?

Again, I'm not arguing against Damon getting some just desserts, but the desserts weren't just for me this time. Maybe if they'd done it right (I mean like, immediately) after Tyler died, yeah. But in this episode I don't think he actually did much to deserve Alaric or Matt's ire specifically.

[smices]

I don't think there's an expiration date on wanting Damon gone. Tyler was just buried a day earlier then the kids were taken. Not that it will matter.

[Artsda]

I hope Damon stays dead.

 

I actually liked Caroline taking off her ring to go with Alaric to be a parent. She actually showed putting her kids first for 5 mins then by the end of the episode she went back again. She earlier got that Stefan will always choose Damon then by the end she's acting like she doesn't know where this "darkness" follows her from and that it would one day go away so she can be with the kids. As long as she's with Stefan it will never go away because Stefan will always be tied to Damon. 

[GaT]

3 hours ago, saoirse said:

The sirens were granted immortality for their servitude to Cade, right? So I assume that Damon and Stefan get the same thing.

They're vampires, aren't they already immortal?

This has got to be the absolute worst season of the show.

[steelyis]

I like three things about this episode:

Alaric delivering a pretty good Liam Neeson Taken speech to the siren, Caroline making it clear to Stefan she's not having his split loyalties get in the way of protecting her kids, and Caroline telling Alaric he better never say those girls aren't her children again.

Everything else was either 'eh, whatever' or boring.

Matt and Alaric teaming up reminded me of the old days and I like the idea they wanted revenge for Tyler's death (especially if Tyler is burning in Cade's hell because of Damon), but Damon's probably unkillable so staking him is a waste of time and drama.

Bonnie and Enzo's scenes only served to remind me they should have been given way more build-up; I was unmoved by their romantic declarations, despite how hard the actors tried to sell it.

Still can't invest in the sirens. So boring.

Cade seems okay, but his motives are too hazy to make him really interesting to me.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yes to all of that, @steelyis!

I wanted to punch Alaric when he tried to tell Caroline that the twins aren't her kids. The hell they aren't, you dick. Maybe she doesn't share their DNA, but she is their mother in every way. Gawd. And let's not forget that if not for Caroline's uterus, Alaric wouldn't have any kids to take away from her. After they were born, she could have left him to be a single parent but she has loved the twins and raised them just as much as Alaric has so he needs to STFU.

On a related note, I get that Alaric was desperate to get the girls back but barking at Stefan to do more (and later telling him to squeeze Enzo's head until it popped if necessary) was not a good look.

When Caroline told Alaric to take the girls away "until this is over," I just laughed. Until WHAT is over, Caroline? There is always drama and murders and monsters! Even once the sirens are gone, there will be something else. Even though there's no denying that Caroline has been a drama queen since S1, the fact that the twins are the daughter of a witch from a very powerful coven might be what causes future problems more than Caroline being married to Damon's brother.

The only good thing about Bonnie and Enzo's seemingly interminable woobie love scenes was Enzo saying he didn't know whether to kiss Matt or Bonnie first. Despite the show's efforts, I am not invested in this relationship at all so watching Bonnie say she was terrified to lose him did nothing for me.

Damon has his flaws but the fact that he agreed to sacrifice himself in order to save the twins, even with his humanity switch off, tells me that there is still some good left in him, no matter how tiny.

I am on the fence about Matt and Alaric killing Damon. On the one hand, OF COURSE Damon deserves to die after the many, MANY terrible things he has done over the years. I mean, let's be real. He deserves to die for snapping Jeremy's neck way back when. But if you start making a list of all the bad/murderous/selfish things that all of the characters have done over the years, most of them deserve to die too. Even Caroline and Elena went on killing sprees when they flipped their switches. And at least be honest, Alaric - killing Damon wasn't about avenging Tyler's death. It was about punishing Damon for his tangental role in the twins being kidnapped (which is kind of dumb since it was Seline, not Sybil, who took the girls).

[Aeryn13]

That was as anticlimatic as Tyler`s death. Only, I know Damon is gonna be back because there are still 10 episodes left till we`re finally free of this mess. And he is only gonna be more unhinged and pissed off later. Sigh.

Maybe it is because I never cared for Jo and baby/kid plots are iffy at the best of times but I never cared about the twins and the whole parental angst of Alaric and Caroline. Whatever. The sirens are equally as boring. Cade who made "hell" with a thought is still the stupidest myth twist they`ve ever come up with.

Last Season was bad but this one is truly atrocious.      

[prospazzinator]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Damon has his flaws but the fact that he agreed to sacrifice himself in order to save the twins, even with his humanity switch off, tells me that there is still some good left in him, no matter how tiny.

Did he sacrifice himself to save them? It seemed to me that this was just one more tactic in his avoid hell at all costs strategy. 

I don't quite understand what we're supposed to make of Damon. He gets a glimpse of hell and decides he doesn't want any of that, so he willingly goes along with being Sybil's puppet. Oh, and turns off his humanity so he doesn't have to care. So are we supposed to be thinking "Poor Damon" because he's doing what he's told and so nothing is his fault? Or "Screw Damon" because he chose to have it that way and didn't put up a fight? They show us that Enzo fought back as best he could, but then go on and on about it being easier (but not easy) for him to do because of his past experiences. So if you're in the "Poor Damon" camp, then maybe you're thinking he never really had a chance anyway. But if you're in the "Screw Damon" camp, then maybe you're thinking he should have at least tried to resist. I'm pretty sure the show wants us to be thinking "Poor Damon," but that doesn't work for me at this point in the show. This is assuming I'm understanding everything correctly. Which is a pretty big assumption because this season is a mess and all over the place in its characterization.

[TigerLynx]

Enzo and Bonnie keep choosing each other.  You will always be better off that way.

It's always amusing to see Damon tell a supernatural that their plan sucks.

Alaric and Matt are years to late on finally taking real action.

Stefan once again chooses Damon.  I know it was supposedly because Stefan wanted to save the twins, but how many times has Stefan been here with Damon?

Caroline should have stayed broken up with Stefan, and planned on staying with her children.  The best thing all of these people can do is get the hell away from Damon and Stefan.  And I actually like Damon and Stefan.

I kept expecting Damon to make his own deal with Cade which included releasing Stefan, and putting Katherine in Stefan's place.  Which would ironically mean, Damon finally gets what he wanted back in 1864/65(?), and gets to be with Katherine forever.

Edited December 3, 2016 by TigerLynx

[ByTor]

16 hours ago, saoirse said:

The sirens were granted immortality for their servitude to Cade, right? So I assume that Damon and Stefan get the same thing. So yeah, I was pretty much like, whatever when Ric staked Damon.

Yes, but I presume after the 24 hours that Stefan negotiated; with Damon dead there can't be a deal.  Will Cade go after the twins again?  Or will there be a race for Bonnie to get her powers back in order to resurrect Damon? (I really doubt he's dead dead). Actually, I really liked this episode, with the exception of 2 things.  Hated "I am taking my ring off while I look for the kids."  It sounded like a passive-aggressive some move a high school girl would make with her boyfriend's class ring.  If she knows Stefan will always choose Damon, be a grown up and dump him for real.  I also cannot STAND the sirens' annoying, thrown off American Idol in round 1 "singing" or whatever the hell it's supposed to be.

Edited December 3, 2016 by ByTor

[bobbyjoe]

Quote

I like three things about this episode:

Alaric delivering a pretty good Liam Neeson Taken speech to the siren, Caroline making it clear to Stefan she's not having his split loyalties get in the way of protecting her kids, and Caroline telling Alaric he better never say those girls aren't her children again.

It's weird, but so typical, of VD's writers in the last few seasons that they never understand where the best drama is, or what to do with it.

You're so right: Alaric's speech to the siren is great.  Both logically and what I think what most of us in the audience want to see, then, is for Alaric to follow through on exactly that speech.  But what do we get?  Alaric staking Damon.  Huh?!   That's not only incredibly unsatisfying to the dramatic promise Alaric's previous speech gives us, it doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense.  Shouldn't we have seen the fun and dramatic irony of the siren at the end of the episode being like "oh, whew, I'm finally free from Cade and I'm no longer immortal and now my life can be wonderf....  oh, sh*t" and there's Alaric, ready to kill the hell out of her?

Instead, I'm seriously worried that from that Siren (I can't even remember her name because I so don't care) being so mopey at the end of the episode we're going to be fed some idiotic redemption arc for this nothing character we don't know anything about and care about even less.

And you're also right: it's great to see tough Caroline ready to kick butt and take names for her kids, and then....  the showdown we get becomes all about Stefan.  Caroline isn't even there.  And then the payoff is that two of our characters have to enter into forced servitude of a new big bad, which was exactly the same payoff as the end of last season which was only a few episodes ago?

Geez, I'll miss the golden days of VD's earliest seasons, but I guess it is best to end things soon since the writers have so obviously forgotten even the most basic rules of fun, drama, and suspense, and seriously need to either retire or go back to take some basic beginner's writing classes.

Edited December 3, 2016 by bobbyjoe

[formerlyfreedom]

22 hours ago, GaT said:

They're vampires, aren't they already immortal?

True - sorry I wasn't more clear, but there are still ways to 'kill' vampires (stake through the heart, beheading and burning?), and my thought was those traditional ways of killing wouldn't work on Damon anymore.

[Artsda]

Quote

Caroline should have stayed broken up with Stefan, and planned on staying with her children.

Exactly, the second she got back with Stefan she took off on those kids. Yet she's mad Alaric called her on it? He wasn't wrong, when Stefan came back in her life she stopped being a real parent to those girls. Alaric is right to take them and go from anyone living wtih Stefan/Damon. 

[DigitalCount]

9 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

It's weird, but so typical, of VD's writers in the last few seasons that they never understand where the best drama is, or what to do with it.

You're so right: Alaric's speech to the siren is great.  Both logically and what I think what most of us in the audience want to see, then, is for Alaric to follow through on exactly that speech.  But what do we get?  Alaric staking Damon.  Huh?!   That's not only incredibly unsatisfying to the dramatic promise Alaric's previous speech gives us, it doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense.  Shouldn't we have seen the fun and dramatic irony of the siren at the end of the episode being like "oh, whew, I'm finally free from Cade and I'm no longer immortal and now my life can be wonderf....  oh, sh*t" and there's Alaric, ready to kill the hell out of her?

Instead, I'm seriously worried that from that Siren (I can't even remember her name because I so don't care) being so mopey at the end of the episode we're going to be fed some idiotic redemption arc for this nothing character we don't know anything about and care about even less.

And you're also right: it's great to see tough Caroline ready to kick butt and take names for her kids, and then....  the showdown we get becomes all about Stefan.  Caroline isn't even there.  And then the payoff is that two of our characters have to enter into forced servitude of a new big bad, which was exactly the same payoff as the end of last season which was only a few episodes ago?

Geez, I'll miss the golden days of VD's earliest seasons, but I guess it is best to end things soon since the writers have so obviously forgotten even the most basic rules of fun, drama, and suspense, and seriously need to either retire or go back to take some basic beginner's writing classes.

I feel bad for saying this, but...this is exactly it. I was sitting here watching and hearing Sybil toss off that line at the end to Selene, I figured she knew about Alaric's revenge and was planning on stepping right out of the way for him to go full rageaholic on her sister. One of the lower key things that hasn't been brought up in recent years is the fact that Alaric actually is Liam Neeson from Taken, just up against supernaturals. He entered the show intending to essentially deliver the beatdown he finally made good on in this episode. Back in S3 while he was the sleeper agent for Esther, it was brought up that he'd been kind of a creep in his younger days with people having restraining orders out against him, and that he had a temper and a tendency to blunt it with alcohol. He's a trained hunter, tracker, fighter and a father on top of that; it's mind-boggling that the last scene wasn't him snatching up Selene like Sybil did to Enzo during the last season's finale.

The only thing I can think of that made this scenario impossible was that Selene is a young-looking woman, and it would be stomach-churning to see Alaric stalk her, trap her, and torture her to death. But then if you know you can't pay off the setup for whatever reason...maybe don't set it up the way you did? All those things up above as points in Alaric's favor are puddlenuts in comparison with the show's treatment of Angry Caroline, established as a force of nature just beneath an extinction-event-level meteor. That scene could have just as easily been the Mama Bear vamp-facing while delivering the same speech, and then we don't have to worry about how it looks when she snaps Selene's neck like a twig. In fact, that could have been impetus for Alaric telling Caroline she's a monster who shouldn't be around their kids, which in turn would fuel Caroline's rage further when she finally catches up with Selene.

I understood Stefan's deal as meaning that they wouldn't become servants until the next day, meaning that Damon is actually dead and invalidating Sybil's deal. Otherwise, Sybil's plan went off without a hitch, and I can't accept that, because screw Sybil.

[TigerLynx]

If they can have Klaus torture Katherine, I don't see why Alaric can't kill Selene for kidnapping his children, and planning to hand them over to Cade.  Granted Klaus only had Katherine stab herself in the leg, but even if they were squeamish about Alaric smacking Selene around, there is no reason Caroline couldn't have stomped her into the ground and then killed her.

I get that Sybil is supposed to be Damon and Selene is supposed to be Stefan, but what is the point?  The writers have done this before, it never goes anywhere, and this is the last season.  It's a waste of time.

Bonnie should have been so frustrated with not being able to find Rick's twins, or help Enzo, that she gets so angry, she starts setting things on fire.  Then Bonnie has her powers back just in time to locate Selene for Rick and Caroline.  I don't care if it doesn't make sense.  After Rick and Caroline kill Selene, Rick, Caroline, the twins, Bonnie, Enzo and Matt leave to get as far away from Damon and Stefan as possible.  All of them planning on protecting the twins.

I forgot, who has Elena's body now?  Did Tyler have it?  Do Matt or Bonnie have it?  If not, Elena is royally screwed.

It would be hilarious if Cade got fed up with Damon/Stefan, their constant bickering, their idiotic shenanigans, told them they weren't worth the trouble and sent them off to hell.  If Cade is supposed to be the devil, why would anyone believe he would honor any deal he made?

Also, it's annoying that all these supernaturals do really really stupid things, and then whine about how it comes back to bite them in the ass.  From Esther and Mikeal and their stupid we must murder our children and turn them into monsters in order to protect them, oh that was a bad idea now we need to kill them from the idiotic doppelganger triangle to the witch coven that imprisoned Kai (instead of killing him) to the Sirens and so on and so forth, and that includes Stefan who just couldn't live without Damon back in 1864.

The one person's backstory I did like was Katherine's.  Her line of "better you die than I" was excellent, and so much more entertaining than the rest of these morons.

Edited December 4, 2016 by TigerLynx

[miss-vanilla]

Wow, these writers really are on a mission this season to shock, stun and completely ruin everything, everyone and every damn relationship on the show before it bows out in March. Perhaps they don't want us to miss it too much so they have us hate it so we are glad to see the back of it.

Alaric was just completely deranged from the off. His phone call to Seline was chilling and his whole demeanor throughout the episode was one of desperate madness, understandably so. Him killing Damon (in that context) might not have been such a stretch, but given that his kids were back safe and regular Alaric was seemingly back in control, him going all in a rage against Damon just seemed off, like those scenes were edited in the wrong order or something. Having said all that, it has been more than hinted at that Alaric has an inner rage and dark streak, it was how Esther managed to manipulate him on the other side.

On 12/3/2016 at 9:58 PM, bobbyjoe said:

oth logically and what I think what most of us in the audience want to see, then, is for Alaric to follow through on exactly that speech.  But what do we get?  Alaric staking Damon.  Huh?

This.

Gah! I can't help it, but I felt bad for Damon when he was spending his last 24 hours as a free man getting drunk, alone in the Mystic Grill. So sad since throughout the show he has often lead from the front when the boot was on the other foot with other characters. To be battered and then staked by Ric was just hard to watch to be honest and not something that will be easily forgiven by this viewer down the line. I mean Ric just killed Damon, Stefans' brother and I expect Stefan to flip his shit about that because when all is said and done Damon was one of them. JUST.LIKE.TYLER.  I mean, Alaric killed Carolines' dad when he wasn't in his right mind??

Like many others have already said, it's disappointing to see them all turn on each other when they should be fighting for each other especially since this is the last season of the show.

The story has been slow, full of plot holes and inconsistent writing with no follow through on too many occasions to make it feel like a tight, cohesive story.

I mean, can anyone tell me exactly what is going on with Sybils' mind control of Enzo? I did not understand that part of the story. Stefan was able to enter Enzos' subconscious, and talk to Sybil in Enzos' subconscious??? WTF? Has this ever been done before?

Was Enzo never really released from the Sirens call? Obviously he had freed her from his conscious mind, but she had a hook in his sub conscious that he wasn't aware of, is that what i'm meant to understand? So therefore Damon is unaware that Sybil is still controlling him from his sub conscious which is why he was so confused in the last episode and could not understand why he was still doing her bidding even though he was technically free?

Does Damon remember Elena or not?

Will he become free of Sybil and her mind control once he begins his servitude to Cade?

Steroline were ok this week. I got Carolines' motives for shutting Stefan out, they were understandable and were born organically from what we have seen before from Stefan when it comes to Damon. Giving the ring back might have been a touch melodramatic but I can live that. The melodrama with Benzo was a little less palatable for me this week even though I enjoy this pairing more that Steroline.  I'm probably getting to the point of saturation with how many "I love yous'" and lovey dovey platitudes that are being exchanged on a weekly basis with a similar narrative...Save Enzo. We get it show, they will die for each other, now can Bonnie have some scenes with Matt or Caroline or literally anyone else next week please.

 

The Sirens can just bugger off now. Stick a fork in them, they are done and lets just move the hell on (Pun intended), because the singing is shredding my last nerve.

I'm racking my brains to find something that I like about this episode and I'm struggling, but if I had to choose something it would be dark, unhinged Alaric right up until he staked Damon. RIP Dalaric.

Oh, I nearly forgot. PW directed this episode. The fact that the episode was disappointing is not a reflection on him, I thought he did an amazing job behind the camera. I thought the performances (from the regulars) at least were excellent and the whole look of the episode is consistent with the quality of his previous efforts at directing. Both Paul and Ian have done no harm to their chances at making a career out of directing in the future IMO. 

Edited December 5, 2016 by miss-vanilla

[DigitalCount]

Stefan entered Enzo's mind using the mind-walking power vampires on this show have. Usually a younger vampire needs to somehow subdue or weaken an older vampire's mental barriers to do it successfully. With Damon and Rose, she was already dying from werewolf toxin; with Sage and Rebekah, they got her drunk and, um, satisfied beforehand. Because Sybil was in Enzo's mind, she could interact with Stefan, who was also in Enzo's mind.

[immortalfrieza]

18 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

 

Also, it's annoying that all these supernaturals do really really stupid things, and then whine about how it comes back to bite them in the ass.  From Esther and Mikeal and their stupid we must murder our children and turn them into monsters in order to protect them, oh that was a bad idea now we need to kill them from the idiotic doppelganger triangle to the witch coven that imprisoned Kai (instead of killing him) to the Sirens and so on and so forth, and that includes Stefan who just couldn't live without Damon back in 1864.

This entire show, all 8 seasons of it, boils down to "the protagonists do hasty, stupid, and/or selfish crap, bad stuff happens as a direct result, protagonists do more hasty, stupid, and/or selfish crap to try to clean up their own mess, repeat." If anybody would do ANYTHING intelligent at any point this show wouldn't have a plot, which has always been and always will be nothing but bad writing. This is really why it's impossible to feel bad whenever anything bad happens to anyone on this show, they have been responsible for their own suffering and none of them have the intelligence and forethought to not jump on the first idea that comes to their minds.

10 hours ago, miss-vanilla said:

Gah! I can't help it, but I felt bad for Damon when he was spending his last 24 hours as a free man getting drunk, alone in the Mystic Grill. So sad since throughout the show he has often lead from the front when the boot was on the other foot with other characters. To be battered and then staked by Ric was just hard to watch to be honest and not something that will be easily forgiven by this viewer down the line. I mean Ric just killed Damon, Stefans' brother and I expect Stefan to flip his shit about that because when all is said and done Damon was one of them. JUST.LIKE.TYLER.  I mean, Alaric killed Carolines' dad when he wasn't in his right mind??

Of course it's hypocritical of Alaric to try to kill Damon for actions he never had any control over, everybody on this show is a massive hypocrite, they will attack and destroy any number of other people to (very badly) protect the ones THEY care about, then turn around and act all noble and indignant when others do the same to them. Everybody seems to forget that Damon had NO control over his actions whatsoever, and as much as I hate that Damon has had this "get out of responsibility for being a murderous asshole" card he can't be blamed for any of it, especially since by getting the twins out of the deal he did do Alaric a favor. Out of everything Damon has done this season saving the twins and making a deal with Cade are the only things he would have done of his own free will anyway. Though, considering Damon's brain is basically sludge because of Sybil it should invalidate the deal right then as he shouldn't be considering competent to MAKE the choice to accept Cade's deal in the first place.

Oh, and the people on this show need to WAKE UP already and realize that all this supernatural mayhem IS "normal life" and always has been. Just because most of them were blind to it for most of their lives doesn't mean the supernatural isn't their reality, they just didn't notice it, and that's if they weren't literally born into it like the twins are. Adjust and adapt to reality as it is, or let the next supernatural being that comes your way kill you as you people stick your fingers in your ears.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Sybil was at the armory, her voice/mind control didn't work because they were hearing her through the speakers, but this week she was able to get to Enzo by singing to him through the phone. That makes no sense! I'm sure Julie Plec would say it worked because she was already connected to Enzo's mind but if that's true, why did she need to call him since she was humming and controlling Damon whole she was still locked up in the armory? I know, I know, I'm not supposed to apply logic to this show. 

[Diane]

I'm sorry but this season I feel like I have Detoured on Some Random Backwoods Path to Hell. I am really trying to stick with it but they kill Damon and then turn right around and show him alive in the promo for the next episode. Whatever!!!

[prospazzinator]

23 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

I forgot, who has Elena's body now?  Did Tyler have it?  Do Matt or Bonnie have it?  If not, Elena is royally screwed.

Oh I hope (yeah, not really) they spend the second half of the season looking for Elena's body. It could be what brings them all together. Good old, not quite dead Elena. Maybe Bonnie will get her powers back just so she can locate the body. 

[ByTor]

On ‎12‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 4:58 PM, bobbyjoe said:

Instead, I'm seriously worried that from that Siren (I can't even remember her name because I so don't care) being so mopey at the end of the episode we're going to be fed some idiotic redemption arc for this nothing character we don't know anything about and care about even less.

Much like they did with the vampwitch Valerie...one of the many loves of Stefan's life.

[MostlyC]

It's a sad, sad state of affairs when the only people I care about on this show are Bonnie and Enzo.

I can't figure out if Damon is still operating entirely of his free will or if the Siren is still messing with his mind.  Anyone know for sure?

Also, I don't think either Damon or Stefan count as "history's most prolific killers." Their body count doesn't even come close to say, Stalin or Caligula.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I can't figure out if Damon is still operating entirely of his free will or if the Siren is still messing with his mind.  Anyone know for sure?

Was it last episode? where he confronted Sibyl about leaving him free will and yet with a compulsive need to still do everything she wanted that didn`t really benefit him? I took that to mean basically still a puppet. Proposing the deal was obviously his own idea and it was actually the first helpful thing (well, it benefited him but it was helpful for the twins) he did all Season. And that`s what he gets killed for. The irony.

Sure, it was "this is for Tyler" but come on, they were all willing to put him into time-out after Tyler, this was obviously about the twins being kidnapped. And I thought it was ridiculous that Alaric pontificated how they would never be safe as long as Damon was around. Why Damon specifically? Why don`t you go after the stupid Siren, Ric? You don`t even know if this is the end of her evil plan because you don`t know about the deal. 

Lets say killing Damon right then and there would have nullified the deal with Cade and put Seline`s proposal back on the table. Just imagine Alaric`s face if the "devil" had come and said "you know, your kids would have been almost safe again but sorry, not anymore". Goof fucking going then. Granted, we know that`s not gonna happen but could have.

Damon has been some boring shell of a character this Season, evol but not even with a purpose. And they are seriously kinda hammering home how staying good is connected to having a girlfriend. Enzo fights back because he has Bonnie. Stefan makes sacrifices because he loves Caroline. If Elena was still around, they would have done a different story with Damon. It`s like he is only randomely evol now because he doesn`t have an onscreen love interest at the moment. Did he not initially want to dessicate himself alongside Elena and sleep through everything? And she told him no? Clearly, he had the better instinct. 

[miss-vanilla]

3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Damon has been some boring shell of a character this Season, evol but not even with a purpose. And they are seriously kinda hammering home how staying good is connected to having a girlfriend. Enzo fights back because he has Bonnie. Stefan makes sacrifices because he loves Caroline. If Elena was still around, they would have done a different story with Damon. It`s like he is only randomely evol now because he doesn`t have an onscreen love interest at the moment. Did he not initially want to dessicate himself alongside Elena and sleep through everything? And she told him no? Clearly, he had the better instinct. 

Yeah! I feel the same way about all of this and it isn't a good look for any of them.

Regarding Damons choice to dessicate last season, I find it ironic that his instincts back then were actually condemned but now suddenly because Stefan suggests it this season it's all makes so much sense. If Damon had stayed put last season, Stefan would would probably be dead and so would Bonnie but suddenly there is no-one willing to fight for Damon right when he needs it the most?

I have never seen a time on this show when a sustained effort to switch a humanity-less vampire back on  hasn't been the prime objective of the gang until now. Stefan tried the first part, vervain, then forgot the follow through part. Bonnie got the idea with Enzo so why aren't they trying the same with Damon? He has literally spearheaded most attempts in the past and has a pretty good track record in success. I'm thinking of Elena, Stefan and Caroline here and he was also the catalyst in waking Bonnie up last season. Damon managed to do this by knowing just what buttons to push to get the desired response, and do you know why? because he pays attention, he is smart and intuitive and not a lot gets past him.  Everyone knows that Elena is Damons' achilles heel, so why are they not brainstorming ideas about how to wake her without killing Bonnie? I mean I know Nina is not around right now to fulfill that but for storytelling purposes they could at least pay lip service to that, it's not like they are not adverse to mentioning Elena on a regular basis.

[Aeryn13]

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The whole scenario was scripted and directed to make Damon look as an unsung hero, murdered brutally and unnecessarily violently by the man whose life he just saved. It is very transparent to those who know to look.

I disagree. They have taken the character dark before and then somewhat ignored the consequences - though in fairness they have done that with other characters as well and sometimes more - but this Season they have gone out of their way to paint the Damon character in the most unsympathetic, unflattering light ever. At his very worst, Klaus got a better rep than that. Right now Enzo is the one who got the "see, that is how a true romantic hero acts in this situation" portrayal because they are doing a lovey-dovey story with Bonnie. And Stefan gets painted as the biggest martyr and hero right now.

Even in this episode, they made it pretty clear that Damon developed this plan to save himself from hell, that it happened to be a good thing for Alaric`s kids was clearly a byproduct. Stefan was the one who willingly threw himself on his sword for the children. 

[Aeryn13]

I thought the "Sybil made him do it" part has been increasingly vague, multiple times they have referenced in dialogue how Damon was just too weak and scared of hell and gave up. Maybe if we didn`t have Enzo as a direct comparism, it might still work but as it is, I don`t think so. I think they went way too far with Damon`s character, even for this show and that is saying something.

Don`t know if it was intentional or just terrible writing but at this point I see no way to fix it. If his underlying motive was anything other than cowardice maybe, it could be but I really think that ship has sailed. And for a character that has been on this show since the beginning, I really see that as a disappointing devolution. Just like Tyler`s drive-by-death was disappointing. 

No idea why they thought ruining characters and relationships on the home stretch is a good idea. Sure, the goodbye becomes "good riddance" then but ideally a writer should want to have viewers have fond memories after it`s over not be left with a soured final impression.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Aeryn13

[DigitalCount]

I kind of agree with both of you, but I'll throw in the added stipulation that Tyler left the tribe, making his death largely background noise. We know that the morality of this show has always been that the tribe is the most important concept to be protected above all else, and anyone not in the tribe is marking time until death. However, he was once part of them, meaning that the show has to treat his death as if he both is and is not a part of it. Under these parameters, the inconsistencies don't really make sense, but it's understandable why they exist.

[Aeryn13]

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However, he was once part of them, meaning that the show has to treat his death as if he both is and is not a part of it. Under these parameters, the inconsistencies don't really make sense, but it's understandable why they exist.

It`s really no-man`s-land as far as morality on this show goes.

Unless they pull a fast one in the end have a couple characters coming back from "hell". I mean, everyone on this show, other than the twins right now, is slated to go there, right? I thought it was a bit hilarious when Stefan somberly said he agreed to let Cade have his immortal soul. Dude, by the new rules set up this Season, you were hellbound the second you killed your father way back when. So Cade already had your soul. And it`s not like Caroline is not gonna be there either. Alaric, Bonnie, Enzo and Matt, they all have at least one deed each on the resume that is worse than vehicular manslaughter.  

In that vein, Stefan having to dramatically kill one of the sirened people was ridiculous. He wasn`t a good enough offering before that? He has killed plenty of people in the past. Would the toddlers have needed a kill count, too, before they could really apply for servitude?  

[miss-vanilla]

3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Even in this episode, they made it pretty clear that Damon developed this plan to save himself from hell, that it happened to be a good thing for Alaric`s kids was clearly a byproduct. Stefan was the one who willingly threw himself on his sword for the children. 

I agree this is what they are selling, which is why Damon gets zero credit in the narrative. If they wanted it to be seen that Damons' motives involved saving the children intentionally  before he found out about the loophole then they didn't do a good enough job selling that. Essentially I think we are meant to side with Alaric and Matt on this and be a little bit miffed that Damon escapes due to his  dirty deal with devil. 

Damon has always carried the label of selfish bad brother but he has never been given the coward label until last season when Stefan called him out for acting out of fear rather than love. I didn't agree with that sentiment but it seems that this thread is continuing and is how they want to write Damon right at the end of the show after years of character development and story that completely contradicts the current narrative. I agree that they may have ruined Damon beyond repair for me now because they have been so ambiguous with his POV and motive. Unless there is some clarity as to the extent and nature of Sybils' control over him things will look bad. I'm not sure whether or not this ambiguity is intentional due to a larger payoff later (this is what I was initially believing), or it will be forever clear as mud. I suspect the latter, and ultimately Damons' character has been reduced to plot device to service the angst in the Steroline ship. Sad.

[miss-vanilla]

15 minutes ago, doram said:

And it looks like Damon still has a greater sympathy than Enzo from the audience. How many people thought it was ungrateful of Bonnie not to choose Damon's life over Enzo's? 

Well I can only speak for myself but I have spent 8 years with the Damon character and throughout that time i have mostly loved everything about his journey. I love Enzo too, and I do sympathize with him but he has nor quite wormed his way inside my heart as far as Damon has yet.  I have been rooting for him to find his way back to Bonnie all season but his character hasn't been destroyed in this narrative which is what was being discussed. For the record, I wanted Bonnie to choose Enzo and was glad she did, even though I knew it would hurt Damon it wasn't realistic for her to choose him over the love of her life. If Damon understands any language, he understands that (when he is written in character of course).

 

As for this episode, he is being shown as being accepted as part of the group more than Damon, and characters such as Matt are playing the part of the writers mouthpiece to draw direct comparisons in the narrative. The only thing I will say is that I'm always a bit guarded when the writers are this heavy handed with the dialogue because as we have seen in the past, the opposite usually turns out to be the actual truth.

[PinkRibbons]

I feel like we got at least one shot of Damon eyeing the twins like, "okay, this shit is getting dark even for me"; but I don't know if that was something Ian and Paul snuck in or it was intentionally and idiotically edited down. As it is if Damon really didn't care at all about the girls I don't think he would have even started asking questions about what exactly would happen to them. That he found the loophole strikes me as a extra-lucky break for him on several levels.

I'm so confused by Cade. I feel like the idea is that people who go to his hell are ones he's taken particular notice of, not that everyone ends up with him. I sincerely doubt Lexi is in his hell, for instance, and I don't think she was a complete saint. My thought is that Damon and Stefan now have to take on the roles of finding the worst possible souls to supply Cade with some kind of requisite amount of evil? And the whole tribe right now is on his radar sort of as a byproduct of proximity? Whatever.

I do really want Stefan to punch Alaric if he finds out what he did before Damon miraculously reappears. And I want someone in the room to just stand up and list every horrible thing everyone in the room has done, including Matt shooting blind and killing his girlfriens through his own stupidity. No one is allowed to have a holier-than-thou attitude at this point.

On 12/5/2016 at 4:10 PM, MostlyC said:

Also, I don't think either Damon or Stefan count as "history's most prolific killers." Their body count doesn't even come close to say, Stalin or Caligula.

I think this is more of a hands-on kind of deal. And in that case with Stefan at least all you have to look at is his creepy death tally wall. Pretty sure he's got most human serial killers beat. Damon on the other hand is more of a question mark for me. I always got the impression that he killed about as much as most vampires do, with a kind of uncaring regularity, but then apparently he's gained a rep in the vampire community for being crazy and impulsive (something Klaus said, I think?), which I guess means he has to have done some really specific shit to get that title.

[Aeryn13]

Bonnie`s choice was a given to me. Other than Stefan choosing Matt to facilitate Elena becoming a vampire (and ultimately Stefan still chose Elena, just her good opinion of him over her life) and Damon choosing Bonnie to facilitate Elena being written off the show, noone ever chooses against their epic love on this show. Not even one of their handful of "best" friends. A reverse "Damon kills Kai" moment with Bonnie choosing Damon over Enzo at that point wouldn`t have been earned IMO. Enzo had been fighting so hard, it would have been horrible to not even have Bonnie in his corner. 

But I will say that I think it was like another kick in the teeth for the Bamon ship. And boy, has that one been kicked over the years. Any other even semi-legitimate ship at least got their one moment in the sun. They even lampshaded it with Sybil in that very episode which was just mean.