S12.E06: Elliot's Pond

[Droogie]

This comment in particular:

The real life dustup and Thomas Gibson’s apparent laissez-faire attitude since then have tainted the character for me, and I would not have been grief-stricken if they’d removed Hotch from the show’s current narrative altogether because of it.

Laissez-faire?  Seriously?  I could expound for days. And it had no place in the review for the episode.

[Willowy]

*shrugs*

Meaning a "hands-off" attitude. I didn't see anything wrong with it.

[Droogie]

*is aware of the meaning of "laissez-faire"*

As is your prerogative.  To each, her own.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Droogie

[thewhiteowl]

Topic, please.

[smoker]

Sorry for the long post and any grammar mistake.

 

I've only seen half episode, more or less.  So I won't talk about the case of the week. 

This is my opinion. 

The good:

• I liked Hotch recommending Prentiss, it felt organic. Emily and Rossi were his best friends. Moreover, Prentiss has worked in different forces in different countries and she has been a chief herself these years. The season 6-7 Prentiss was strong, capable and independent, a nomad who lives for her job. She is the perfect replacement.
• AT and AR were pretty well toned, they don't have the same relationship with Hotch than the others. Their reaction about Prentiss as their new boss was also well done.
• Hotch and Jack are supposed to be together and safe, but forever? We'll see.

The bad:

• This exit was one of the most mentioned. By itself (under this circumstance) isn't a bad way to let Hotch go. My problem is: all the continuity mistakes, holes in the plot and bad writing in general. 
• There was a scene were Luke and Reid got out of a SUV, I think. Reid says something about the quiet ride, I thought they were goint to say something about Hotch, but they didn't.
• The biggest offence is turn Mr. Scratch into The reaper 2.0. Suddenly this guy is acting like Foyet. Do you think a man with his brainy mastermind would stalk Jack that way? After he played the whole team (yes, mainly Hotch) in the premiere to get an address (?). However, it seems to me PL was the kind of guy who makes you think you are a target when you are only a tiny piece of his bigger plan. He did the same in season 10, when he hacked the FBI to get the last address. Why someone like that would waste his time chasing a suit?
• Poor Jack.
• What about Jessica and her father?
• What about Sean? (yes, I know, who cares)
• And this is a bureaucratic thing. I don't know if it was implicit and I missed it, but why a resignation? Hotch has been 20 years working for the FBI. He could get a retirement, isn't it? What about his pension and insurance? I understand he has to notify he won't be working anymore, but I wouldn't call it a resignation.

The worse:

• The acting by far.
• The lack of direction. That powerful presence who tells everybody what to do. Directing isn't only about the esthetics of the enviroment. When I think about the performances MGG pulled out from the actors in other episodes...
• KV as Garcia. Histrionic and making things about her, as always.
• The joke and line delivery about Rossi being alergic to paperwork matched up Morgan's: "Ain't not sunshine in this cards" (s11e17). Not appropriate.
• AJ, JM and MGG were adsolutely horrid. Any robot would have performed those scenes better. They didn't show any surprise or concern and as soon as the news about Prentiss were delivered they just lobotomize Hotch; but even that was bad done.
• Their faces never synchronized their words. Rossi's explanation was a monotonous narration. The others were there making Taylor Swift faces.
• MGG has disappointed me lately, he is a lot better than this. I don't understand his atittude. His body language used to be great. Reid was absolutely gone. 
• PB was the one who kept a sad face the whole time. Pretty aware of the seriousness of the scene. We know she is a better actor than this, but she is suffering the bad writting syndrome.
• The plane scene between JJ, Emily and Reid. Poorly written and played. AJ's voice was particulary bad in this one. Is that sound what is called vocal fry? 
• They have reached the lowest quality I've seen in a long while. I understand their personal apathy, about the confrontation and the dismissal, about the show (writing, new additions, whatever). I do understand. But for God's sake! They are actors! Being good at pretending is what they do for a living.

Edited November 19, 2016 by smoker

[autumnmountains]

I really loved this episode. To me everyone was on point and per normal, Matthew did a fantastic job of directing :)I would write more, and I was going to (I was waiting until I was off to do a more in-depth review but well life happened and this is as much as I can write at the moment. ) It's amazing how there can be so many different opinions on the same episode. :)

[CrimeFan12]

I also enjoyed the episode.  Generally I'm not a fan of Gubler's  weird episodes.  I thought Mr. Scratch was a bore until the last ten or fifteen minutes and all I could think of during Blood Relations was that Golem was loose in the Appalachian mountains.  Yes, this one was weird, but it was a good weird.   It never occurred to me that the twins were alive and behind the kidnappings.  It's one I would watch again...and I did. :-)

I thought how they handled Hotch's departure was well done and the best they could do given the whole unfortunate situation.  I liked how his leaving popped up throughout the episode instead of them just giving it to us as bookends with nothing in the middle.  I had no problem with the champagne and toast at the end. It was to remember a dear and close friend and the promotion of another friend.  It made more sense than when they had champagne to celebrate JJ returning from maternity leave.  

Overall it was a solid episode for me.

[senin]

8 hours ago, autumnmountains said:

I really loved this episode. To me everyone was on point and per normal, Matthew did a fantastic job of directing :)I would write more, and I was going to (I was waiting until I was off to do a more in-depth review but well life happened and this is as much as I can write at the moment. ) It's amazing how there can be so many different opinions on the same episode. :)

I was thinking exactly the same thing. And we still respect each other's points of view... and learn from them. Great!!

[JMO]

Smoker, while I can't agree with everything you said, I do think you hit on something I've noticed as well.  The 'old team', those characters who have been with us for more than a year, have been 'off' almost all season.  Not just the writing, although that's part of it. But the portrayals.  I completely agree with you about MGG's ability to speak with his eyes, or his body language-----it's a huge part of what makes Reid such a deep character---yet that's been absent for much of this season, and never more obviously than in this episode.  I'd blame it on the director and/or editor, as to what they chose to put on film, but.....  Maybe he couldn't accomplish it, and direct, at the same time.

I can't help but think that they were all still in the early stages of the no-Hotch era, still uncertain about what was happening, maybe not quite able to buy in to what was written.  I do think they all knew exactly how their characters would have reacted, in character, and then were asked to play it out of character.  So, maybe that was it, this episode.  I hope so.  

[smoker]

13 hours ago, CrimeFan12 said:

 all I could think of during Blood Relations was that Golem was loose in the Appalachian mountains.

double LOL

[Nysha]

Did anyone ever explain why the three boys were kidnapped? I'm assuming the original kidnapper had died of old age and I can understand that the twins probably would have bought into his paranoid view of the world at some point, but the twins acted as if they were still emotionally 8, wouldn't they have matured beyond that?

[rainsmom]

2 hours ago, Nysha said:

 I can understand that the twins probably would have bought into his paranoid view of the world at some point, but the twins acted as if they were still emotionally 8, wouldn't they have matured beyond that?

Exactly! Thank you for mentioning this.

The twins were kidnapped, yes, but at some point they became members of the old guy's family. They were simply children raised off the grid by a single parent. They would have farmed and hunted and done all manner of everyday living chores. Not having exposure to people outside of the adult they lived with would not have kept them from growing up. There are still homesteaders who choose to live this way, and guess what, their kids grow up just fine. Being paranoid, I can understand. Being "stuck" as kids? Not so much.

[Chaos Theory]

Criminal Minds doesn't really kill off its leads.  It prefers not to even when it can and probably should.  Thomas Gibson can theoretically return someday maybe for the series finale or something.  As for the episode itself as someone who has stopped watching this show for a lot of reasons  I thought it was an ok episode.  I am actually interested in Prentis being in charge and the still the large female cast is what keeps this show on the not quite given up on yet lust for me.  

[Old Dog]

Just watched this as it just aired over here. Matthew looked drop dead gorgeous and his direction was excellent. However, the magic seems to have well and truly left the building. Garcia gets on my last nerve, Prentiss has totally lost her spark and I'm not sure why she drawls her lines so much, the Hotch exit story was so unsatisfactory, the case story was flimsy and that ending speech from Rossi was just out and out Messer propaganda. I was amazed to read that some viewers bawled their eyes out when the kids were found and reunited - it was just meh to me and nothing compared to Mosely Lane which always reduces me to tears. I am so disappointed. It feels like the entire world is dumbing down.

[Old Dog]

Have you noticed how in all interviews the cast always gush about the amazing writing? I saw Paget did it in the interview with Tari. I wonder if they have picked up that everyone blasts the writing and the cast are instructed to big it up in all interviews? Certainly the writing for this episode was very lacking and the bits that Erica Messer wrote stood out so much as her typical "we are family" schmuck that they could have been lit up in neon lights! And the whole Hotch bit was just inadequately plastering over the cracks IMO.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Old Dog

[smoker]

24 minutes ago, Old Dog said:

Just watched this as it just aired over here. Matthew looked drop dead gorgeous and his direction was excellent. However, the magic seems to have well and truly left the building. Garcia gets on my last nerve, Prentiss has totally lost her spark and I'm not sure why she drawls her lines so much, the Hotch exit story was so unsatisfactory, the case story was flimsy and that ending speech from Rossi was just out and out Messer propaganda. I was amazed to read that some viewers bawled their eyes out when the kids were found and reunited - it was just meh to me and nothing compared to Mosely Lane which always reduces me to tears. I am so disappointed. It feels like the entire world is dumbing down.

Absolutely agree, with everything.

I couldn't describe PB performance, she's acting weird but I just didn't know how to put it into words, you've nailed it.

PB was one of the actors who played the right behavior through the wrong lines to improve the script, that's gone. Her return and new role should have been a fresh start, but now she is so interchangeable as everybody else.

Moreover, in Mosley Lane, those parents who learnt his son had died the day before, the father's pain gets me everytime.

[autumnmountains]

Old dog, I think it's a matter of preference. I often think that the episodes lack something, but for this episode, for me, I think it was a rather good one in all aspects. I was satisfied with how they handled Hotch, they didn't have a ton of options, in my opinion :) but I respect that you feel differently.  :)

[smoker]

5 minutes ago, Old Dog said:

Have you noticed how in all interviews the cast always gush about the amazing writing? I saw Paget did it in the interview with Tari. I wonder if they have picked up that everyone blasts the writing and the cast are instructed to big it up in all interviews? Certainly the writing for this episode was very lacking and the bits that Erica Messer wrote stood out so much as her typical "we are family" schmuck that they could have been lit up in neon lights! And the whole Hotch bit was just inadequately plastering over the cracks IMO.

Again, agree.

They can sell whatever Messer wants to, I don't think many people is buying. Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of people watching out of habit. I watched because of that and Hotch. And there are people watching because they enjoy the show. More or less 8M. My best wishes for them, it seems this show is going to live one or two more seasons. The thing going under my skin is, when I think of CSI, which lasted 15. I don't know, I watched maybe 2 - 3 episodes per season since season 7, but they seemed well done. I mean, the cases could be repetitive or even boring, but the show still kept some quality and the remaining characters were the same, their lives had evolved, but the core was there, actors/writers didn't turn them into caricatures like CM characters, that makes me sad.

[Old Dog]

I agree that we all see things differently. But for me, it was just so disappointing. I was hoping that it would be a spectacular episode as Matthew directed it but honestly the only thing I enjoyed about it was Matthew himself who looked devastatingly handsome. I kept comparing it in my mind to Mosley Lane and it just didn't stand up to that emotion-filled episode. I also appreciate they didn't have many options in trying to adjust to what has happened with TG but this just didn't work on any level. I especially hated the scene at the end with the champagne and the insincere Rossi speech. I would have expected the "family" to be much more affected by the loss of one of their own.

[ReidFan]

And I thought they did the best they could, considering what they had to work with, in the writing out of Hotch. They (the writers) are in a no win situation there. It wouldn't matter how it was written, the nhnw folks especially (who went into the episode not wanting to like it, if they watched it at all), and the ardent Hotch fans/supporters might not like it no matter how it's done. 

As for the 'family's' reaction, again, I think any viewer's reaction will be directly tempered by how they feel about the external situation. I thought it was well done considering, but I'm not a huge Hotch fan; and I totally get that those who are won't be satisfied with it.

The team reacted pretty much how I would have expected them to...they know Hotch&Jack are in WitSec (wtf is that, how do you get WitSec out of witness protection?) for their own good, and are also happy to know that Hotch himself wanted them left in Emily's hands. I respectfully disagree with those who didn't like (most especially) Reid's reaction, I thought Matthew played that fabulously. In the announcement speech Rossi gave telling them Hotch wasn't coming back, he (MGG) conveyed everything I would have expected him to: surprise/shock, disappointment, wariness, and then acceptance and understanding, all with just his eyes and facial expressions, he had no lines there. Later, having accepted that Hotch isn't coming back, wanting Emily to take the job so as not to leave them in the hands of a stranger as it were. The *only* thing I would have liked to see, and I realise it wasn't done because they didn't have time and they didn't have Thomas, was some kind of acknowledgement that Reid's being abandoned by someone he looks up to again. But they already did the letter, wit Gideon, so I don't know how else it coulda been done. I did cringe a couple of times: Garcia's over the top reactions were eye roll inducing, and I really didn't like that Tara was the one to speak to Emily about the absent boyfriend (what's the over/under on that relationship ending ASAP?) and overall this episode wasn't as emotional for me as Mosley Lane was, but I think it was a lot better than people are giving it credit for.

*shrug* my two cents canadian (so, like, nothing in US terms)

Edited November 22, 2016 by ReidFan
grammatical error

[Old Dog]

The world would be a dull place if we all thought the same Riff! I'm glad you enjoyed it so much. I just hope the Reid arc is done well and some of the magic returns, And there are at least 2 Reidless episodes before then. Actually I still have the 2 episodes prior to this one on my Tivo yet to watch but haven't yet felt the inclination. I remember the days I would get up in the small hours to find the new episodes on the internet as soon as I possibly could!

[ReidFan]

admittedly, I would watch an hour of Matthew Gray Gubler reading the phone book, so of course I'm gonna watch as long as he's on the show and find something to like about it. 

and admittedly, part two, I had a 'missing scene' thought that I just cannot write cause I'm desperately trying to write my Christmas story and don't want distraction from that either. :-\  so I'm here, reading and posting. ARGH, and watching Mayday. Really. WTF is wrong with me!

[senin]

3 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

admittedly, I would watch an hour of Matthew Gray Gubler reading the phone book, so of course I'm gonna watch as long as he's on the show and find something to like about it. 

and admittedly, part two, I had a 'missing scene' thought that I just cannot write cause I'm desperately trying to write my Christmas story and don't want distraction from that either. :-\  so I'm here, reading and posting. ARGH, and watching Mayday. Really. WTF is wrong with me!

Or just and hour of MGG, silent, just looking at the camera, maybe??? 

ReidFan, you've said that you have never been a big Hotch fan. Well, I used to think that I wasn't one, either, but it seems I liked him more than I had realised when he was on the show (it hurts just writing this!!) Now, whenever I rewatch an old episode, I find something in his character that I like, and hadn't seen before. 

[smoker]

I know you speak in general terms when you talk about the ardent Hotch fans/supporters, Reidfan, and I understand what you mean about the personal perception of the actors reaction.

However I want to support my own comment adding this:

I consider myself capable of an unbiased opinion, in this case a negative critic. TG acting wasn't perfect all the time, no matter how much I enjoyed the view.

I get it wasn't an easy task (Hotch's exit), I said before that as viewers, we have to be open minded when real life interferes in the fiction. Maybe, it would have been easier if they weren't used to deliver scripts with a ton of holes every week. Maybe, well trained writers would have been more capable.

I didn't watch much of the case, my opinion is only about the scenes involving Hotch's future. I don't know if the episode was well directed artistically or  entertaining so I don't have a say about that. 

My complain is not because of the way they chose to explain his absence, it's because in those scenes writing and acting were empirically bad, only AR and AT were ok and I "know" Reid and he was totally OOC. I explained this opinion in other comment so I'm going to stop, I don't want repeating myself.

Now, as Old Dog has said Matthew looks devastatingly handsome this season. I am  also glad you enjoyed the episode as a whole and  I hope you enjoy the rest of the season  ;0)

Edited November 22, 2016 by smoker

[secnarf]

5 hours ago, ReidFan said:

The team reacted pretty much how I would have expected them to...they know Hotch&Jack are in WitSec (wtf is that, how do you get WitSec out of witness protection?)

I had the same question and looked it up for some fanfiction I wrote a while back - 'witness security program' is the other name for it.

[ReidFan]

ah! thank you secnarf. I knew there had to be a logical story behind that. (still distracting myself with the Internet instead of writing.......oops)

[SSAHotchner]

8 hours ago, Old Dog said:

Have you noticed how in all interviews the cast always gush about the amazing writing? I saw Paget did it in the interview with Tari. I wonder if they have picked up that everyone blasts the writing and the cast are instructed to big it up in all interviews? Certainly the writing for this episode was very lacking and the bits that Erica Messer wrote stood out so much as her typical "we are family" schmuck that they could have been lit up in neon lights! And the whole Hotch bit was just inadequately plastering over the cracks IMO.

Haven't seen that interview, but if it's true, it makes me lose some respect for Paget. Now, I know she can't come out and say the writing sucks, but to gush about it? No. Better to not say anything. 

8 hours ago, smoker said:

Absolutely agree, with everything.

I couldn't describe PB performance, she's acting weird but I just didn't know how to put it into words, you've nailed it.

PB was one of the actors who played the right behavior through the wrong lines to improve the script, that's gone. Her return and new role should have been a fresh start, but now she is so interchangeable as everybody else.

Moreover, in Mosley Lane, those parents who learnt his son had died the day before, the father's pain gets me everytime.

I agree. And that scene at the end of Mosley Lane makes me cry no matter how many times I have seen it. 

[Bookish Jen]

On 11/17/2016 at 6:56 PM, Franky said:

Matthew's parent DO seem like good sports. His mom played one of the exercising ladies in Suburban Gothic. She was all bending over and shakin' her rump, lol. I wonder if he has any plans to use Laura and Gray in anything... and omg how cute would Hunter be?

Mama Gubler Twerking like a bad ass. I love it!

And I know Hunter is still a little guy, but he would be so cute in a brief scene on CM directed by Uncle Matthew of course.

[normasm]

Actually, Hunter played Matthew's son in some indie thing where he was acting all yuppie-like. I can't remember what it was, girls, help me out here!

[Willowy]

I remember this... but forget what it actually is:

"Last of the Great Romantics" - that's it!

[Bookish Jen]

2 minutes ago, normasm said:

Actually, Hunter played Matthew's son in some indie thing where he was acting all yuppie-like. I can't remember what it was, girls, help me out here!

Cool I'd like to see it. I've seen a few pics of Hunter and he is adorable. And Matthew really seems to treasure being an uncle. I know I love being an auntie to Dr. Nephew and Bookish Niece.

As for Elliott's Pond, I wish more time would have been spent on the actual case with the whole Hotch situation and Emily being made Unit Chief explained in further depth and less rushed on another episode. But alas, with "Kickgate" I totally understand CM was tossed into a huge morass and had critical deadlines to make when it comes to writing, shooting, etc.

3 minutes ago, Franky said:

I remember this... but forget what it actually is:

"Last of the Great Romantics" - that's it!

Little ones just know good people. You don't just see this between Hunter and Matthew. You also see this with people like President Obama. He has such a lovely way with children and babies.

On-topic: I bet the kid actors loved working with Matthew even if to them, he's an old fart.

[ReidFan]

i did a million of them, but i'm posting just this one screencap from Elliot's Pond to illustrate what a fabulous acting job by Matthew, conveying a range of reactions and emotions when given the news of Hotch's resignation and why.

He's showing surprise and dismay here. It's one of a series I took but they take up too much bandwidth to post here, and I'm just not in the mood to make more of them small enough to share here.

Just kudos to Matthew for his acting and his directing.

[senin]

Thank you Reidfan!! 

[smoker]

Reidfan,

You're invoking the devil in me xP

[needschocolate]

Just saw this episode and missed the last one because the DVR thought it had already recorded it when it taped the rerun shown because of the World Series.  

Tara is looking better - like a normal person. My problem with the character is the past was that it felt like AT was playing a homely woman - "oh look, I am going to show what a great actress I am by playing someone not as pretty as I really am."

Parts of the Hotch departure felt, to me, like they originally wrote it as though Hotch died, filmed some of the scenes (like Garcia being so distraught because she can't remember the last thing she said to him - seemed to OOT even for Garcia), then decided that they would just have him go into Witness Protection, and changed the script, but kept the scenes they already filmed. 

However, I am glad they went the Witness Protection route. 

The kidnapping story needed a lot more explanation than they gave.  Like others have said, why would the kidnapped twins kidnap the three boys? Why were acting like they were 8 when they were kidnapped at 12? If the original kidnapper was dead why hasn't anyone seen one of the twins? Are they growing the carrots in a spare bedroom? Why was the male twin hairless?  Why were the twins allowed to stay at the house like they did nothing wrong? 

They could have at least had the boys stumble upon the original kidnapper's corpse in the basement.

[MarylandGirl]

Just watched this episode and came here in the hopes of having some of the plot holes filled. I thought maybe I'd zoned out or something and missed why the twins kidnapped the boys, why the male twin was bald, etc. I mean, maybe they were just lonely? And were they going to be arrested? Or would they just let them go because they themselves had been kidnapped? Why just leave them in the house like that, unless, say, they refused to go to the hospital? They both looked rather sickly, but maybe it was just a lack of sun.

I felt it was an engaging episode, with good direction by MGG. But it would have been better had it not coincided with all the Hotch leaving stuff, if they'd had more time to devote to the actual case.