Body Shaming and Name Calling: Do words really damage?

[notyrmomma]

***please note, this is not intended on being a political discussion, just a discussion on this show's premise and our society in general

I'm a long time watcher of this show and poster on this forum, and this whole election debacle got me thinking, harsh words can hurt, but do they really do any damage?  Whitney's show is based on that people shouldn't say certain things because (and I'm being generous, she actually DEMANDS that people not even hint at not nice words) they "hurt" people, but is this really true?  

I have been obese since childhood until two years ago when I decided to get weight loss surgery.  Growing up, I was teased mercilessly at school, but instead of running up to my school and demanding they make those kids stop, my mother had me repeat "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never harm me."  What happened to us as a society that we now believe that words can really hurt us?

Words only "hurt" when you believe them and take them to heart.  I think we all need to get a grip and realize that just because someone calls you a "fat ass" does not make it true.  What someone says about you is more of a reflection on what is going on in his/her life, and further, what someone thinks about you is none of your business.  

I am dealing with something like this at work now.  I have been told in closed-door meetings with my boss that I am too "harsh" in dealing with coworkers sometimes (I will fully admit, I have no patience for laziness or stupidity) and when people feel offended, this erases all the good work I do.  I am told that I need to watch out how I am perceived.  How the hell can I control what someone thinks of me?  Even if I were to constantly walk on eggshells around people, the only way I could ever guarantee that I don't offend anyone would be to remain totally silent with no expression on my face.

Is it just me, or do people need to toughen up and stop being so offended all the time?  I like to keep an open mind, so if I am wrong, where am I wrong?  discuss...

[ClareWalks]

37 minutes ago, notyrmomma said:

Words only "hurt" when you believe them and take them to heart.

I agree. I think true self-esteem makes all the difference. When I was in high school, I cannot tell you how many times I was called ugly. Hideous. You'd think I was fuckin' Nosferatu the way people carried on about it. In reality I was average to above average in looks and I was quite thin. I got my fair share of dates in college and beyond. But high school was rough. It's a good thing I had self esteem from my musical abilities, my academic success, etc. so I didn't take the name calling very seriously. People need to understand that they have value beyond their weight/appearance. Otherwise, no matter how good looking or perfect your body is, you will be an easy target for "shaming."

[OnceSane]

We're going to give this thread a shot.  If it goes off the rails, I'm shutting the fun down.

[crazycatlady58]

The thing is some  people  fo take things  to heart. That is why some people  kill them self as a result  of bulling. you cannot  give yourself  self-esteem  that comes, I think  ,  from someone  telling  you that you are  loved even  if you are overweight  , not model  pretty   ect. My mother  while  not abusive  did not show me love.  I do not remember  her telling  me she loved me or I had done a good job on something  .  I am not saying  she did not love me she just never showed  it. I was not  popular  in school just had one friend.  All of this adds up to someone  with low self-esteem  .  I was not until  I became  a adult  that I found  a group  of people  who show me my worth. I do not believe  children  should  be praised  for  every  little  thing but they  do need to be told  their worth  . Where I am going  with  this  is I think we should  be aware  of the words  we use, they do have an affect  on people  .   There is no need to tell someone they are fat, ugly ect. However  people  also need to stop and think  did that  person  mean to hurt me with  their  words. It does  seem  a lot of people  take  offense  when none is meant  . 

[DoctorWhovian]

I think we are all more upset when someone says something to us that we know to be true. You are way more able to laugh off an insult when it has no basis in reality.

Edited November 14, 2016 by DoctorWhovian

[mamadrama]

We are dealing with this at my son's school at the moment. There is a bully intent on calling him "dumb" and "weak" because he won't fight. We are teaching our son that we can't change the other child's behavior, but that our son CAN control how he reacts to the words. I think self-esteem is the key here. At the end of the day, the only person you have control over is yourself. 

[notyrmomma]

3 hours ago, mamadrama said:

We are dealing with this at my son's school at the moment. There is a bully intent on calling him "dumb" and "weak" because he won't fight. We are teaching our son that we can't change the other child's behavior, but that our son CAN control how he reacts to the words. I think self-esteem is the key here. At the end of the day, the only person you have control over is yourself. 

This needs to be the universal way to deal with name calling, unfortunately, as you are correct, you can't change the other child's behavior. I wish more parents would deal with it this way.

I'm not saying words aren't hurtful, but I feel we have swung the pendulum too far the other way that we are almost on the brink of making a hate crime out of saying certain words.  This show exists only to "shame the shamer"  (which I think it does the opposite, actually).  

There's just a great deal of angst, nervousness, hand wringing out there just because of words...and what if something really bad happens in our world? Are people just going to shut down and hide in their safe space?

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, notyrmomma said:

This needs to be the universal way to deal with name calling, unfortunately, as you are correct, you can't change the other child's behavior. I wish more parents would deal with it this way.

I'm not saying words aren't hurtful, but I feel we have swung the pendulum too far the other way that we are almost on the brink of making a hate crime out of saying certain words.  This show exists only to "shame the shamer"  (which I think it does the opposite, actually).  

There's just a great deal of angst, nervousness, hand wringing out there just because of words...and what if something really bad happens in our world? Are people just going to shut down and hide in their safe space?

Of course, we also alerted the school and filled out the right forms, etc. etc. But in the meantime we've talked to him about how things might NOT change, that there will always be bullies calling us things we don't like, etc. etc. My mother is a homebound teacher. I would say that 50% of her students are on homebound for "anxiety." This means that doctors are signing kids out of school for a year or more because of "anxiety." I often wonder how those children are going to be able to function as adults, in jobs, etc. My INSTINCT is to pull my son out of school and shield him from the world. But my head tells me to teach him how to pick his battles and work on himself, knowing that it's very difficult to change others. 

[mamadrama]

My husband says that you have to figure out if what you're FEELING is the same as what the other person is insinuating. "I feel like that person is being critical of me because ____" vs  "That person is saying that I am _____"  I think this is where the line gets a little thin. Although people's feelings are totally legitimate and you can't control them, you don't want to get to the point where you are overly sensitive and hearing things that just aren't being implied. 

[ClareWalks]

5 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Although people's feelings are totally legitimate and you can't control them, you don't want to get to the point where you are overly sensitive and hearing things that just aren't being implied.

Definitely true. Just an example: maybe I'm out with friends for dinner and they're asking me if I want to order dessert, and I say "I don't think I should today" (maybe I had a ton of Halloween candy earlier, or something). I'm not saying THEY shouldn't eat dessert, or they're fat, or something. But I have a lot of friends/relatives who would take it that way, even if I fell over myself explaining that I am referring only to myself.

[Beaner]

On 11/13/2016 at 9:21 AM, notyrmomma said:

***please note, this is not intended on being a political discussion, just a discussion on this show's premise and our society in general

 

I am dealing with something like this at work now.  I have been told in closed-door meetings with my boss that I am too "harsh" in dealing with coworkers sometimes (I will fully admit, I have no patience for laziness or stupidity) and when people feel offended, this erases all the good work I do.  I am told that I need to watch out how I am perceived.  How the hell can I control what someone thinks of me?  Even if I were to constantly walk on eggshells around people, the only way I could ever guarantee that I don't offend anyone would be to remain totally silent with no expression on my face.

Is it just me, or do people need to toughen up and stop being so offended all the time?  I like to keep an open mind, so if I am wrong, where am I wrong?  discuss...

Treating your coworkers with respect, dignity, and kindness would very likely not offend them.  Apparently they are uncomfortable around you. Putting more effort into your interpersonal skills does not mean you have to walk on eggshells. I'm sure your boss could give you suggestions and possibly "coach" you, if you will. This is an interesting discussion and I wish you well.

[Bubbles1967]

Im going to be totally honest.  We are becoming a society of wusses and thus raising them as well.

Political correctness is beyond overboard.

Im sick of hearing of people feeling shamed for everything damn thing and crying about it.

Everyone wants a safe space to go to so that they are not exposed to the harsh reality of life.

The special little snowflakes of the world will be in for a rude awakening when things don't go their way in life

They will have no one but mommy and daddy to blame.

[Barb23]

On 11/20/2016 at 0:36 PM, Bubbles1967 said:

Im going to be totally honest.  We are becoming a society of wusses and thus raising them as well.

Political correctness is beyond overboard.

Im sick of hearing of people feeling shamed for everything damn thing and crying about it.

Everyone wants a safe space to go to so that they are not exposed to the harsh reality of life.

The special little snowflakes of the world will be in for a rude awakening when things don't go their way in life

They will have no one but mommy and daddy to blame.

Amen!!  This reminds me of when my son was in elementary school.  He won his grade level for his science fair project.  The grade winners would go on to the county level with all the schools sending their winners. When he got to the county contest we learned there would be no winner, everyone would get a Certificate of Recognition.  My husband's reply was "Why bother, this isn't preparing them for the real world where they have to learn everyone can't be the winner."  This was over 15 years ago. 

[Bubbles1967]

9 hours ago, Barb23 said:

Amen!!  This reminds me of when my son was in elementary school.  He won his grade level for his science fair project.  The grade winners would go on to the county level with all the schools sending their winners. When he got to the county contest we learned there would be no winner, everyone would get a Certificate of Recognition.  My husband's reply was "Why bother, this isn't preparing them for the real world where they have to learn everyone can't be the winner."  This was over 15 years ago. 

When I was 10 (which was 40 years ago!!) they gave little trophies for cheerleading. But they did have a winner so it wasn't like now. We don't want the kids feelings to get hurt(ugh). What's gonna happen when they get passed over for a promotion or fired from a job??? 

Im gonna ask my boss for a safe space at work so I can go somewhere after dealing with an asshole customer. Preferably  with a male masseuse name Hans and a mini bar.

[mamadrama]

I am starting to struggle with this as an author. I write ghost stories. You kind of go into them knowing they're not necessarily based in reality. (Ha ha, one time a reviewer DID give me 1 star and complain that one of my books was "completely unbelievable." I think he/she thought they'd stumbled into a biography section. But I digress.) My latest release does deal with abuse. I am not explicit. It's hinted at but, by the time you've finished reading it, you're still not getting the whole picture and it's ambiguous to an extent. You know, you KNOW abuse went on, but you're not altogether sure how far it went. Of course, one of the first reviews that popped up complained that I should have used a "trigger warning." The problem with that is that it's a mystery. The abuse is the catalyst for the entire story and you don't even find out about it until the very end. A trigger warning would have ruined the book. 

I am not sure how the abuse was any worse than the child's death (natural causes, but still) in another book I wrote, the teenage girl's murder in another, and the psychotic father in the last one. I mean, my series that sells the best is about a woman who sees the past and solves murder mysteries-you kind of walk into it knowing something bad is going to happen, if it hasn't happened already. 

Sigh. I realize this isn't on topic with "fat shaming" but I think it does veer into the category of "sensitivity." I don't know where to draw that line. I don't want to upset people but I can't please everyone. 

[notyrmomma]

On 11/20/2016 at 0:36 PM, Bubbles1967 said:

Im going to be totally honest.  We are becoming a society of wusses and thus raising them as well.

Political correctness is beyond overboard.

Im sick of hearing of people feeling shamed for everything damn thing and crying about it.

Everyone wants a safe space to go to so that they are not exposed to the harsh reality of life.

The special little snowflakes of the world will be in for a rude awakening when things don't go their way in life

They will have no one but mommy and daddy to blame.

This is exactly why I started this thread.  I think on a subconscious level this is why some of us really dislike Whitney and her message - it all fits in to the culture that we have now become.  We (meaning Americans) have to invent our problems and get our panties in a bunch over the most idiotic of things.  Excuse me if my "privilege" shows through on this comment, but you have to admit, we have it pretty good here in America.  There are many impoverished people here, but compared to the impoverished people living in Haiti (you know, the ones that couldn't rebuild from the earthquake and ended up drowning in a hurricane), we are living like kings and queens.  I could go on and on about how good we have it in America--I didn't even touch on women's or minority rights, but I think it is a SLAP IN THE FACE to all those who have to deal with REAL problems to say that we are "scared" because someone said off color remarks or doesn't quite agree with the way that some people live their life.  What really prompted me to start this thread was the whole safety pin movement of a couple of weeks ago (Please, I'm not trying to go political).  What the hell would these safety pin people would have done if they had to live under Hitler's regime (or Stalin, or Sadam Hussin, or pick any other real dictator/tyrant)? Melt into a puddle?  Come on people, where's your spine?

Back to Whitney.  You want people not to shame you for your size?  How about not shaming the shamers and focus on making yourself the best version of you?  I think we all just need to stop focusing so much about what other people say and instead focus on what we are saying and doing--things we can control.  Let's save our energy for the real problems that may arise some day.

Edited November 30, 2016 by notyrmomma

[ClareWalks]

I have become annoyed lately with the overuse (and what seems like the lack of understanding) of the term "body shaming." I remember when Amber Rose claimed judge Julianne Hough was body-shaming her on Dancing with the Stars because Julianne said she felt uncomfortable watching a twerk-heavy routine. Amber Rose immediately thought Julianne was shaming her for having a big booty, when in fact the dance WAS uncomfortable to watch because Amber dances in a very awkward-looking manner and she herself looks uncomfortable. 

Plus this week on The Walking Dead, the character Tara was on for the first time in a while. The actress had recently given birth and is very busty at the moment, so people commented that the poor woman looked like she needed a more supportive bra. Of course, people jumped at them for "body shaming" the actress, that she'd just given birth, what did they expect her to look like, etc. IMO all they were saying is that it looked painful to be running around with poor breast support while lactating, which WOULD be painful. I feel like if you're not actually making fun of someone's body (directly or indirectly) or trying to make them feel bad about it, you are not actually body shaming them. Making a comment about someone's physical state is not the same as "shaming."

[Bubbles1967]

Apparantly now there is such a thing called sick shaming.

just read an article about this actress Lena Dunham who I had never heard of before this year. Apparently she had to cancel a book signing for one day because she was sick. Someone complained about it on twitter.  Needless to say this actress went on a tirade.

Seriously this has got to stop. 

[momofsquid]

14 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I have become annoyed lately with the overuse (and what seems like the lack of understanding) of the term "body shaming." I remember when Amber Rose claimed judge Julianne Hough was body-shaming her on Dancing with the Stars because Julianne said she felt uncomfortable watching a twerk-heavy routine. Amber Rose immediately thought Julianne was shaming her for having a big booty, when in fact the dance WAS uncomfortable to watch because Amber dances in a very awkward-looking manner and she herself looks uncomfortable. 

Plus this week on The Walking Dead, the character Tara was on for the first time in a while. The actress had recently given birth and is very busty at the moment, so people commented that the poor woman looked like she needed a more supportive bra. Of course, people jumped at them for "body shaming" the actress, that she'd just given birth, what did they expect her to look like, etc. IMO all they were saying is that it looked painful to be running around with poor breast support while lactating, which WOULD be painful. I feel like if you're not actually making fun of someone's body (directly or indirectly) or trying to make them feel bad about it, you are not actually body shaming them. Making a comment about someone's physical state is not the same as "shaming."

I have a similar gripe regarding Jennifer Aniston. Some tabloid posted pictures of her alleged "baby bump" when paparazzi caught her in a bikini. To me it looked like a menopause bump because I have one just like it. I had a flat belly until about two years ago, then suddenly become a little thick through the middle like Aniston is. But she went off on a tirade about being body shamed. Now, I get that (1) I'm sure she's fed up with people speculating on her reproductive status and (2) like me she is not thrilled about her menopausal figure. But mistaking a middle-aged belly for a pregnancy is NOT body shaming. It's rude and it's ignorant and it's intrusive and the person who wrote it was probably 22, male and clueless. She had every right to complain and to feel self-conscious. But they didn't mock or insult her so to me it wasn't shaming. It was a stupid, rude, irresponsible money-grab. Complain about that. I can't help wondering how truly obese people felt about Ms Aniston calling out shaming because someone pointed out her waist was a bit thicker.

Edited November 30, 2016 by momofsquid
typo

[ClareWalks]

43 minutes ago, momofsquid said:

Now, I get that (1) I'm sure she's fed up with people speculating on her reproductive status and (2) like me she is not thrilled about her menopausal figure. But mistaking a middle-aged belly for a pregnancy is NOT body shaming. It's rude and it's ignorant and it's intrusive and the person who wrote it was probably 22, male and clueless. She had every right to complain and to feel self-conscious. But they didn't mock or insult her so to me it wasn't shaming.

Exactly. Calling it "shaming" gives it so much more power, when we should just really call it "being an idiot." Shaming indicates that their dumb words hurt us, but we can choose to just shake our heads and say "dumbass" instead of feeling so much freakin' shame all the time.

[Bubbles1967]

6 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

Exactly. Calling it "shaming" gives it so much more power, when we should just really call it "being an idiot." Shaming indicates that their dumb words hurt us, but we can choose to just shake our heads and say "dumbass" instead of feeling so much freakin' shame all the time.

Everyone want to be victims. They want to get attention and have everyone around them say  "poor Jane. Those big meanies shaming her. We have to protect her" ugh.

Thats what it's about. Getting attention.  Whitney loves all the attention from her fans and her friends. Remember how they were at the reunion?  They talk so much smack about her during the season. But when it came time for the reunion, they said nothing. And they attacked that girl.  

[Cherrio]

Imo there are valid complaints about fat shaming and others are ways to deflect and excuse unhealthy behaviors and weight.

I am not saying endorsing model thin or that everyone should be perfect. That is not a realistic expectation.

I can look back and remember when I was a child , it was rare to see or know a fat child. There may of been one or two in a entire school.  So, times have changed drastically.  

My whole outlook and opinion stems from the simple truth is that it is unhealthy to be overweight.   To be clear I am not talking a few pounds.

We have become a country of new labels, new groups, excuses and deflection so that some people can pretend to feel good about themselves or not deal with their medical and physical problems.

I would not hesitate to talk to a friend or family member with concern about their weight.  I would not participate or enable desrtuctive behavior.

Specifically about Whitney, she has put herself on national tv and people come here to discuss and snark. I do not think she should be immune.  I might feel slightly differently if she was trying in a positive and healthy way to change.   She, imo is doing the extreme opposite.  She in fact shames people in a lot of situations. She lies, deflects, is cruel and fake.     I think its a good thing to point out she is the worst role model.   

Simply put while she is pushing her fat shaming agenda, she is eating herself into a heart attack, a stroke, immobility and death. At her own peril, she is too stupid and delusional to realize that TLC is only using her and will only stop until she stops making money for them or more likely she dies.  Either way TLC wins and Whitney either dies or ends up on one of their other shows.

[Bubbles1967]

I wonder what Whitney thinks about the people on My 600 lb life".  Those people are average 200 -300 lbs heavy than her and are so miserable (who can blame them). 

Does she think they should look past their physical problems and not  feel shamed?

Then again maybe she doesn't watch it because she is afraid to watch her future.

[Nanu160]

On 11/30/2016 at 10:36 AM, momofsquid said:

I have a similar gripe regarding Jennifer Aniston. Some tabloid posted pictures of her alleged "baby bump" when paparazzi caught her in a bikini. To me it looked like a menopause bump because I have one just like it. I had a flat belly until about two years ago, then suddenly become a little thick through the middle like Aniston is. But she went off on a tirade about being body shamed. Now, I get that (1) I'm sure she's fed up with people speculating on her reproductive status and (2) like me she is not thrilled about her menopausal figure. But mistaking a middle-aged belly for a pregnancy is NOT body shaming. It's rude and it's ignorant and it's intrusive and the person who wrote it was probably 22, male and clueless. She had every right to complain and to feel self-conscious. But they didn't mock or insult her so to me it wasn't shaming. It was a stupid, rude, irresponsible money-grab. Complain about that. I can't help wondering how truly obese people felt about Ms Aniston calling out shaming because someone pointed out her waist was a bit thicker.

Wish my waist was as "thick"as Jennifer. She looks marvelous!

[AnJen]

My personal thoughts on this are that the younger generations of our current society were raised to be coddled (I am a member of this generation, but thankfully grew up with parents who didn't coddle or praise me for every little thing I did) - participation trophies, gold stars for trying, helicopter parents who swooped in to tell off the teacher for giving their precious angel a less than glowing grade or citizenship score, etc. have taught a lot of young people that they should earn a reward without putting in much effort, and that anyone who withholds that reward/coddling is just mean. I work at a university, and recently we had an applicant interested in one of our programs come in...with her parents...who did all the talking for her. She just sat there while mom and dad talked about her interest in the program, and what a good student she is, and how she'd like to talk to an advisor to set up a plan for getting in (it's a competitive program and often students have to apply 2-3 times before they get accepted). I couldn't believe there was a grown adult standing in front of me not saying a word while her parents did everything for her! This isn't a career choice where she can be a timid little mouse, either. All I could think was unless her parents were going to go through the program with her and get the same degree and follow her around at her future job, she's on the wrong path!

Combine that generation with being the first/second generation of kids to grow up online, and you end up with what we've got. Coddled teens who can't handle any sort of criticism or disagreement, who then turn to their own corner of the internet to whine and complain - which turns into an echo chamber. If you're on websites that are more populated by teens and young adults (tumblr is a good example) you'll find this type of thing everywhere you turn. There's an entire culture online that anyone who says or does something you don't like or don't feel like hearing is "shaming" you, and that everyone needs a "safe space". They all label themselves as anxious or depressed, but very few have actually been evaluated by someone qualified to diagnose those illnesses. And their tips for managing mental illnesses are cutesy and avoidant - like ignoring all responsibilities and watching Disney movies all day. 

I follow a girl on tumblr, who is 26 years old, doesn't have a job but doesn't seem to be in school, lives with her parents (which in this economy is fine, but she's not contributing financially at all), and just kind of...does whatever it is she does all day, apparently. Recently she posted a long rant about how she and her mother went shopping for a new video game console, and the mother was talking to a salesperson and asked the daughter which console so that the sales guy could help them locate it, which meant the daughter had to answer a question in front of the salesperson. That was it. That was the big, dramatic life event that required a several paragraph internet rant. That she had to talk to someone in order for her mom to buy her a video game console. Instead of just stating the name of the console, she was so distressed that she ran away to the car and refused to talk to her mother for the rest of the ride home.

Dozens of people replied to her rant with comments like "I'm so sorry, you're safe here. People just don't understand. This never should have happened to you, please don't feel bad about ranting we are here for you" and "Its really horrible that your mom would make you do something you were so uncomfortable with - I am sorry that she is so unsupportive". At the end of her rant, she stated that she couldn't wait to get out of her parents house and not have to be in situations like that and I had to resist the urge to ask how she thinks she'll manage to accomplish anything if she can't even say a single word to a salesperson.

As someone who struggles with anxiety: I get it. I totally, 100% get the feeling of not wanting to talk to someone, of being afraid you'll stumble over your words and look like an idiot, or that you'll say something wrong, or feeling physically ill at the thought of having to introduce yourself to someone or do something new. The thing about life, though, is that you can't just stop living it because you feel uncomfortable. It can take drugs or therapy and practice but you still have to actively work at improving. You can't just sit there and pretend that you're fine the way you are and that anyone who requires anything of you is "shaming" you.

Similarly, the Fat Acceptance Movement (it's a real thing, if you're interested in diving into an internet rabbit hole) is absolutely convinced that anyone saying anything about obesity that they don't like or don't want to hear is being "fat phobic" or is body-shaming them. There actually was a photographer who did an entire series of taking photos of herself in public and using them to "prove" that the people around her in the photos were fat-phobic/size-ist/body shaming her with their glances and facial expressions - it's a whole lot of mental gymnastics to come to that conclusion, especially given that her format for taking these photos was going into crowded places, setting up a tripod, and snapping a picture of herself looking listlessly off into the middle-distance.  

No one can make you feel shame; if someone says something and you feel ashamed, it's directly related to how you view yourself. The Fat Acceptance movement, in particular, is big on the word shaming - I've read countless social media posts about how everyone from fashion designers to medical experts are "fat-shaming" people because of their weight. Someone not selling clothes in your size isn't shaming; if you feel ashamed that you're so large you can't fit into a certain brand or style of clothing, that's on you. A doctor telling you that your weight is negatively impacting your health isn't shaming you. An airline asking a morbidly obese person to purchase an extra seat isn't shaming them; they're practicing safety guidelines for the flight, and also expecting passengers to respect one another's space. A child pointing out that you are much, much larger than the regular people they see isn't shaming you; kids have no filter and are matter-of-fact. A business or office not offering wider doorways and chairs that can support 500+lb people is not shaming. I have seen all of these arguments made dozens of times by people who spend a huge amount of their time whining on the internet that the world is actively attacking them, even "oppressing" them.

I apologize for the sheer length of this post, but it's a topic that annoys me. 

[ClareWalks]

11 minutes ago, AnJen said:

No one can make you feel shame; if someone says something and you feel ashamed, it's directly related to how you view yourself. The Fat Acceptance movement, in particular, is big on the word shaming - I've read countless social media posts about how everyone from fashion designers to medical experts are "fat-shaming" people because of their weight. Someone not selling clothes in your size isn't shaming; if you feel ashamed that you're so large you can't fit into a certain brand or style of clothing, that's on you. A doctor telling you that your weight is negatively impacting your health isn't shaming you. An airline asking a morbidly obese person to purchase an extra seat isn't shaming them; they're practicing safety guidelines for the flight, and also expecting passengers to respect one another's space. A child pointing out that you are much, much larger than the regular people they see isn't shaming you; kids have no filter and are matter-of-fact. A business or office not offering wider doorways and chairs that can support 500+lb people is not shaming. I have seen all of these arguments made dozens of times by people who spend a huge amount of their time whining on the internet that the world is actively attacking them, even "oppressing" them.

A great post all around and I really agree.

[M.F. Luder]

There's an appeal in setting yourself up as a victim because then doing mundane things like speaking to a salesperson or doing a basic hip hop dance on Youtube gets you tons of accolades and support and makes you feel like you have accomplished much more than what could be objectively measured. I think the current young generation has taken all the feelings of insecurity and anxiety that almost everyone has felt in their adolescence and young adulthood and conflated this with societal oppression. I think some of them have this belief that the default life experience should be one where you feel loved, accepted, and confident all the time and when that's not the case, it's because society has unfair standards that are making you feel like you're inadequate.

I'm 33, so I grew up with access to the internet, but before it really took over everyone's life. I'm also a black/latina woman who grew up in a 95%+ white community and definitely experienced many, many instances of what kids these days would call "microagressions". If I had access to online forums where I knew I could post about my experience and get thousands of responses telling me that I'm amazing and strong and so brave for existing in such an unfair world, I would start to see "oppression" in every little interaction I had every day because the reward for doing so would be a huge ego boost at a time when I was an insecure teenager. I think the new culture of "anti-shaming" or being very PC was started with good intent, because, yes, words can really do damage when you're a young person trying to learn where you fit in the world, but it has gone to the extreme where there's now actual monetary value in being a victim of society's prejudices. For example, do you think for 1 second that Whitney would have her show if "fat shaming" wasn't a thing? If Whitney was judged by the same standards that a thin person was, she wouldn't have gotten more than 10 views on her Youtube video. Her entire career is basically contingent upon society remaining fat phobic...I don't know...I know things aren't so black or white and nothing in society can be explained in generalities, but I just think that there's a big generational divide going on with these "identity politics" topics, and it's causing a lot of young people to not be mentally strong enough to face things that were considered extremely basic by the older generation.

[Nanu160]

I concur. And it's cheap and easy to play victim

[notyrmomma]

2 hours ago, AnJen said:

My personal thoughts on this are that the younger generations of our current society were raised to be coddled (I am a member of this generation, but thankfully grew up with parents who didn't coddle or praise me for every little thing I did) - participation trophies, gold stars for trying, helicopter parents who swooped in to tell off the teacher for giving their precious angel a less than glowing grade or citizenship score, etc. have taught a lot of young people that they should earn a reward without putting in much effort, and that anyone who withholds that reward/coddling is just mean. I work at a university, and recently we had an applicant interested in one of our programs come in...with her parents...who did all the talking for her. She just sat there while mom and dad talked about her interest in the program, and what a good student she is, and how she'd like to talk to an advisor to set up a plan for getting in (it's a competitive program and often students have to apply 2-3 times before they get accepted). I couldn't believe there was a grown adult standing in front of me not saying a word while her parents did everything for her! This isn't a career choice where she can be a timid little mouse, either. All I could think was unless her parents were going to go through the program with her and get the same degree and follow her around at her future job, she's on the wrong path!

Combine that generation with being the first/second generation of kids to grow up online, and you end up with what we've got. Coddled teens who can't handle any sort of criticism or disagreement, who then turn to their own corner of the internet to whine and complain - which turns into an echo chamber. If you're on websites that are more populated by teens and young adults (tumblr is a good example) you'll find this type of thing everywhere you turn. There's an entire culture online that anyone who says or does something you don't like or don't feel like hearing is "shaming" you, and that everyone needs a "safe space". They all label themselves as anxious or depressed, but very few have actually been evaluated by someone qualified to diagnose those illnesses. And their tips for managing mental illnesses are cutesy and avoidant - like ignoring all responsibilities and watching Disney movies all day. 

I follow a girl on tumblr, who is 26 years old, doesn't have a job but doesn't seem to be in school, lives with her parents (which in this economy is fine, but she's not contributing financially at all), and just kind of...does whatever it is she does all day, apparently. Recently she posted a long rant about how she and her mother went shopping for a new video game console, and the mother was talking to a salesperson and asked the daughter which console so that the sales guy could help them locate it, which meant the daughter had to answer a question in front of the salesperson. That was it. That was the big, dramatic life event that required a several paragraph internet rant. That she had to talk to someone in order for her mom to buy her a video game console. Instead of just stating the name of the console, she was so distressed that she ran away to the car and refused to talk to her mother for the rest of the ride home.

Dozens of people replied to her rant with comments like "I'm so sorry, you're safe here. People just don't understand. This never should have happened to you, please don't feel bad about ranting we are here for you" and "Its really horrible that your mom would make you do something you were so uncomfortable with - I am sorry that she is so unsupportive". At the end of her rant, she stated that she couldn't wait to get out of her parents house and not have to be in situations like that and I had to resist the urge to ask how she thinks she'll manage to accomplish anything if she can't even say a single word to a salesperson.

As someone who struggles with anxiety: I get it. I totally, 100% get the feeling of not wanting to talk to someone, of being afraid you'll stumble over your words and look like an idiot, or that you'll say something wrong, or feeling physically ill at the thought of having to introduce yourself to someone or do something new. The thing about life, though, is that you can't just stop living it because you feel uncomfortable. It can take drugs or therapy and practice but you still have to actively work at improving. You can't just sit there and pretend that you're fine the way you are and that anyone who requires anything of you is "shaming" you.

She has anxiety when she talks to a salesperson, but she can post on a Tumblr page, hmmmm.... But she wants to be out on her own, presumably in her own apartment where she will most likely have to have much more difficult conversations with people like a landlord.  God help this poor woman and SHAME on her mother for not making her do more for herself.

This reminds me of a family we know that has a daughter who is now 25 years old.  The daughter does have some moderate cognitive difficulties, but she did manage to get her "certificate" from community college--I think she went through a secretarial/office assistant program, but she has yet to get a job.  She sleeps all day and plays on Facebook all night.  She can't even make herself her own sandwich or do her own laundry.  Her mom waits on her hand and foot.  Her family is not wealthy, I asked her mom what would happen if she died?  None of her family members want to take care of this "woman." Meanwhile, my Goddaughter who is just a few years younger, has serious cognitive difficulties and has been in specialty classes and getting disability payments since she was a little girl, works at McDonalds cleaning tables and thinks it is the best job in the whole world!  I have never seen anyone get so happy just to clean tables at McDonalds!  She's just happy to be out of the house and with people her own age...plus she gets paid!  Who leads the better life in this situation?

 

On another topic, did you all hear about the Santa who got fired for telling a kid to "lay off the hamburgers and french fries"?  http://www.wral.com/not-so-jolly-mom-wants-nc-santa-fired-for-fat-shaming-son/16316038/ As a fat kid, I had comments like that directed at me all.  the.  time.  At Catholic school, the priests and nuns were the worst with their comments! My mother said nothing.  I sucked it up.  I turned out mostly OK (LOL).  Those comments were rude and uncalled for, but fired?  Crap on a cracker people...."sticks and stones...."

[Tosia]

Yeah,  the nuns at my school were jerky too. I was just remembering the other day how I got in BIG trouble for crossing the street slant wise,  not straight across.  Seriously cray cray.   

I wasnt overwrought or overweight (or fat for you plain-talkers) back then,  but now I'm  60 lbs over a comfortable weight for me. My neighbor who is thin sometimes greets me by sayong, "Hey Skinny, you look good!"  Usually when I'm  dressed up for work or going out,  not just hanging at my house in sweats cuz I'm  doing household chores, and just living.  It's dumb, but then so is she, and she had worse problems than being òverweight, so fuck her. 

[ClareWalks]

3 minutes ago, Tosia said:

now I'm  60 lbs over a comfortable weight for me. My neighbor who is thin sometimes greets me by sayong, "Hey Skinny, you look good!"  Usually when I'm  dressed up for work or going out,  not just hanging at my house in sweats cuz I'm  doing household chores, and just living.  It's dumb, but then so is she, and she had worse problems than being òverweight, so fuck her.

Have you recently lost a bunch of weight? Because if not, her comments are really, really strange. I'd probably respond by giving her A Look.

[mamadrama]

Okay, so I looked at that series of photos that supposedly showed a woman being Fat Shamed. (here: http://petapixel.com/2013/02/11/woman-photographs-herself-receiving-strange-looks-in-public/) And it made me angry. Let me preface what I am going to say by saying I have only been the brunt of prejudice once. I am a white, average weight (if on the thin side) female. Blond and straight. No real reason to stand out. Except once. 

I lived in Gatlinburg back in the 1990s. I was a singer at Dollywood. I made friends with a black man who weighed around 400 pounds and 6 feet tall. He was a big old dude and I loved him to death. I was a skinny, white, blond 18 year old. (He was probably 30.) We were just friends but we hung out a LOT, just the two of us. One day he took me to a restaurant. We were the only ones in there but we weren't being waited on. It was weird, because I ate in there all the time. 

"We're being ignored," he said at last. 

I was like, no way. 

"It's because I am black and you're a little white girl," he insisted. 

I laughed. I refused to believe it. After all, I had been coming to Gatlinburg for most of my life. I loved it there! People were so nice and friendly; it was my second home. True, at that time you didn't see MUCH diversity but it was still a tourist town-they were used to having people from different walks of life. Besides, I had never seen racism firsthand and I guess a part of me thought it only existed in other places-not places where I went. 

30 minutes went by and we still didn't have menus. Finally, I flagged down the server. She stomped over to our table and she let us have it. To sum it up, he was right. We were being ignored, and not served, because he was black. (Then I let HER have it.)

I was mortified. I had chosen that restaurant-it was one I ate at all the time. I felt responsible for putting him in that position. He had a much better attitude about it than me. And that made me feel worse-that he was used to it. 

He had been shamed and ill treated because he was black. By extension, I had been shamed because I was with him. 

Now THAT was something to fight and complain about. THAT was shaming.

(We return to Sevier County every year. Each time I see an ethnic family I cheer a little. I hope, as time has gone by, things have improved. And bless the people in the area for what they are going through right now.)

But that website with those pictures? Please. In half of them I don't think the other people are even looking at HER and in the other half I think they're looking at her because of what she is doing (like pulling out a big-ass map.) 

[Snarklepuss]

On 11/20/2016 at 0:36 PM, Bubbles1967 said:

Im going to be totally honest.  We are becoming a society of wusses and thus raising them as well.

Political correctness is beyond overboard.

Im sick of hearing of people feeling shamed for everything damn thing and crying about it.

Everyone wants a safe space to go to so that they are not exposed to the harsh reality of life.

The special little snowflakes of the world will be in for a rude awakening when things don't go their way in life

They will have no one but mommy and daddy to blame.

I am so totally with you on this there isn't enough time for me to go on at length about it.  I am a late boomer and just about the antithesis of all that you mention above.  However, what has turned into a ridiculous, OTT thing called political correctness used to be something much more decent and effective called "manners", which the internet helped to do away with now that everyone can hide behind its anonymity to say whatever it is they want without thinking about the way it's being received or the consequences.   That's one reason why we now have young people needing "safe spaces" and being hyper sensitive when anyone says anything remotely unfavorable to them.  It's one thing to be bullied by one kid in the neighborhood, but being verbally cut down by several nameless, faceless nasties online is yet another.  It can actually hurt even more.  But of course I agree that reaction to that has gotten completely out of control.  It's gotten out of control on both the giving and receiving ends, IMHO.

As far as fat shaming goes, there are probably far more incidents of fat snubbing or fat avoidance than actual fat shaming going on.  The former is blatant while the latter is more subtle and of course can be misinterpreted more negatively by the receiver than was the original intent.  But I think there is also a lot of actual intent out there to snub, avoid, and just in general act disapprovingly of anyone who is not thin enough in the eyes of the person doing it.  When we have women online having to defend perfectly normal weight TV stars when others are calling them "fat" we have a problem, IMHO.  Talk about body dysmorphia - people calling size 6 women "fat" "pudgy" or "chunky" just because they have curvy feminine bodies, that's what I'm talking about.  And of course that's intended as a put down of them, for sure.  So it goes beyond actual fat shaming, IMHO.  It includes a lot of other more subtle, insidious versions of what is probably more accurately called "fat prejudice" than anything else.

[zxy556575]

On 11/16/2016 at 8:04 AM, mamadrama said:

My mother is a homebound teacher. I would say that 50% of her students are on homebound for "anxiety."

Okay, I had to go look that up. I'm not a parent and my interaction with anything kid-related is minuscule, but I'm honestly astonished that such a thing exists. I feel sorry for public schools these days.

On 11/30/2016 at 11:21 AM, ClareWalks said:

Exactly. Calling it "shaming" gives it so much more power, when we should just really call it "being an idiot." Shaming indicates that their dumb words hurt us, but we can choose to just shake our heads and say "dumbass" instead of feeling so much freakin' shame all the time.

Hear, hear. If I'm counseled to rise above any kind of shaming insults hurled at me, I'm similarly free to ignore people who suggest that I shouldn't mock, for example, gluten free hipsters or heteronormative trigger warnings. Everyone's offense meters are calibrated differently. Sometimes I'm hurt and sometimes you are. That's shitting life!!

But I also acknowledge that the only shoes I've walked in are mine, and they are soft and cushiony. I've certainly been laughed at or ridiculed for things I've done and how I've behaved, but never for what I am. The only thing that even marginally resembled bullying when I was in elementary school in the 50s was a few kids calling me "Laurel and Hardy" because my last name is Hardy. I'm sincerely open to other viewpoints and over the decades have frequently modified my speech to be more sensitive/inclusive, but there are also times I just roll my damned eyes.

With regard to celebrities, how about when when Zendaya basically took down Fashion Police after a joke on the show about her dreadlocks and that she perhaps smelled of patchouli oil or weed. She went on a social media tear about OMG the blatant racism.

Edited December 16, 2016 by lordonia

[Tosia]

It's misogyny. Because more women are overweight than men.

Men are accepted when they're older (or younger), less than perfect looking--wrinkles, balding, gray hair, and overweight....think John Goodman, Zach Gallifinakis, Jonah Hill, Paul Blart actor, etc.  

Fat women?  Are Jokes.  Rosie O'Donnell, Elizabeth Taylor, Rosanne, and even those who aren't overweight, like Amy Schumer. 

Yes, women fat shame other women. 

And overweight boys and men get fat shamed also.

But not to the extent that women do. 

Societal expectations are incredibly unrealistic for women.  Misogyny. 

[pigs-in-space]

On 12/11/2016 at 0:37 PM, lordonia said:

With regard to celebrities, how about when when Zendaya basically took down Fashion Police after a joke on the show about her dreadlocks and that she perhaps smelled of patchouli oil or weed. She went on a social media tear about OMG the blatant racism.

I think it's offensive.  We are all allowed to have different thresholds for what we think is offensive.  But what I don't think we should be doing is trying to silence people when they are saying they find something offensive.  Even with everyone saying we are too PC nowadays, I constantly see the burden being put on the person being offended, not the person saying the offensive thing.  Again, some people over-react, yes.  But I think we should judge every claim on it's own merit, not just immediately write it off as someone trying to play the victim or just wanting something to complain about.

With regards to Whitney, I don't think she is fat-shamed as much as she claims.  Do I think she has been fat-shamed at some points?  Yes, I believe she has, and I don't think it's crazy to want people to show a little respect for their fellow human beings.  Photoshopping her head on a picture of a pig (something I've seen on this board, although thankfully the moderators deleted it) is nasty, and certainly attempting to make her feel shamed because she's fat.  And it's not something I think is okay and I think she's perfectly within her rights to stand up and say that kind of thing is not okay.

That said, I do think Whitney goes overboard in claiming everything is fat-shaming.  Someone she knows telling her they want her to eat less fast food because they are worried about her health is not fat-shaming.  That is legitimate concern that she is avoiding by labeling it fat-shaming.  And it's a shame (pun intended) because she is really weakening her own message and turning off a lot of people by making everything about fat-shaming.  Some people will just toss out everything she says, unfortunately.

[ClareWalks]

44 minutes ago, pigs-in-space said:

Photoshopping her head on a picture of a pig (something I've seen on this board, although thankfully the moderators deleted it) is nasty, and certainly attempting to make her feel shamed because she's fat. 

I agree that isn't appropriate, but then Whitney goes and photoshops her own head onto a picture of an elephant (for some sort of World Animal Week, or something). I just think she is the worst possible spokesperson for this cause. She seems to have a "do as I say, not as I do" attitude. It'd be like if a rapper who constantly uses the N-word in his songs spoke out about how racist it is to use the N-word. Yeah, it's racist, but dude, let's pick a better person to say that ;)

[pigs-in-space]

Totally agree on that front, ClareWalks!  I would just hate to see people throw out the whole idea because of the spokesperson.  

[ChristmasJones]

On 11/29/2016 at 5:19 PM, ClareWalks said:

I have become annoyed lately with the overuse (and what seems like the lack of understanding) of the term "body shaming." I remember when Amber Rose claimed judge Julianne Hough was body-shaming her on Dancing with the Stars because Julianne said she felt uncomfortable watching a twerk-heavy routine. Amber Rose immediately thought Julianne was shaming her for having a big booty, when in fact the dance WAS uncomfortable to watch because Amber dances in a very awkward-looking manner and she herself looks uncomfortable. 

Plus this week on The Walking Dead, the character Tara was on for the first time in a while. The actress had recently given birth and is very busty at the moment, so people commented that the poor woman looked like she needed a more supportive bra. Of course, people jumped at them for "body shaming" the actress, that she'd just given birth, what did they expect her to look like, etc. IMO all they were saying is that it looked painful to be running around with poor breast support while lactating, which WOULD be painful. I feel like if you're not actually making fun of someone's body (directly or indirectly) or trying to make them feel bad about it, you are not actually body shaming them. Making a comment about someone's physical state is not the same as "shaming."

I very much agree.

I am trying to figure out when the "shaming" word became so common. It feels like its only been in the past few years. Perhaps I am dense, but I don't really get the difference between saying someone "shamed" you vs. saying someone "criticized/put down/called names/etc"  .  I know that the word shame can be used as a verb, but I tend to think of shame as a very internal feeling about oneself. Its an internal feeling of being bad/less than. I guess it just sounds more powerful to say "she shamed me" rather than to say "she called me a name" or "she criticized me and hurt my feelings." I dunno.  I guess I am just thankful that I was not a teen when there were things like Instagram. I shudder to imagine what my on-line life might have looked like.

[Aw my lahgs]

In Whitney's case, she is actively looking for people to comment on her wait. She basically does everything she can to provoke comments from people. So in her case, I don't really care.

[Nanu160]

I'm ashamed FOR her. All addicts are shameful.

[KirstenConway]

On 1/3/2017 at 9:17 AM, Nanu160 said:

I'm ashamed FOR her. All addicts are shameful.

That sounds like something the mother from the book Carrie would say. Addiction is a human condition. Everyone on the planet is addicted to something. Addiction is a a spectrum. Being ashamed of being human is dated. I feel sorry for anyone who has the belief that they should be ashamed of their humanity.

Sorry, I'm new. I didn't mean to put my reply in the quote box. I should probably be so ashamed.

[mamadrama]

22 hours ago, KirstenConway said:

Sorry, I'm new. I didn't mean to put my reply in the quote box. I should probably be so ashamed.

This is neither here nor there but I saw your name and had to comment. I went to middle school with someone with the same name. We were BFFs for about a year and then she upped and moved to the northeast. (She was originally from Texas.) Man, I grieved and grieved for her! I even asked our school guidance counselor to let me know when her new school requested her records so that I could learn where she'd moved to-but the school never asked for them. Every once in awhile I do a random Google search for her but I figured that, by now, she'd be married and have a new last name. It HAS been 20+ years, after all...Anyway, seeing your name on here. :-) You never know. Stranger things have happened. 

Now, back to our regular broadcast...

[AZChristian]

mamadrama - I reconnected with an old junior high school friend via a discussion board similar to this one; stranger things have happened.

[notyrmomma]

2 hours ago, mamadrama said:

This is neither here nor there but I saw your name and had to comment. I went to middle school with someone with the same name. We were BFFs for about a year and then she upped and moved to the northeast. (She was originally from Texas.) Man, I grieved and grieved for her! I even asked our school guidance counselor to let me know when her new school requested her records so that I could learn where she'd moved to-but the school never asked for them. Every once in awhile I do a random Google search for her but I figured that, by now, she'd be married and have a new last name. It HAS been 20+ years, after all...Anyway, seeing your name on here. :-) You never know. Stranger things have happened. 

Now, back to our regular broadcast...

Sorry - I know this is OT, but wow, maybe her family was in the witness protection program or something and that name was an "assumed name" or something like that, that's why she couldn't tell you exactly where she was going, LOL.  

On 1/6/2017 at 9:29 AM, KirstenConway said:

Sorry, I'm new. I didn't mean to put my reply in the quote box. I should probably be so ashamed.

So I'm just as bad as I can't figure out how to properly quote your quote box.  But I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that

Quote

" Addiction is a human condition. Everyone on the planet is addicted to something. Addiction is a a spectrum. Being ashamed of being human is dated. I feel sorry for anyone who has the belief that they should be ashamed of their humanity."

(Ah, I figured it out! LOL)

Exactly this!  We are all human and we all have things about us that are just plain different and sometimes wrong - some of us are just assholes, some of us believe we should have been a different gender than which we were born, some of have drug addictions, some of us are grossly obese.  We all have something.  HOWEVER.....I DO NOT agree that we should put anyone down for their choices, which includes the choice to vocally not agree with the way someone choses to lead his/her life.

Please note, I said "not agree" not yell at, beat up, spread false rumors, use obscenities.  For example if I say to an obese person, hey, I think you should consider bariatric surgery because you weigh 380 pounds, or how about I say to a transgender person, I know you believe you should have been born a female, but DNA says that you were a male, how about working with a psychiatrist for a few years and hold off pumping yourself with dangerous hormones until at least you are 18 years old?  Neither of those statements were derogatory, but I would get labeled as a hater if I put the bariatric surgery comment on Whitney's page and I would probably literally get shot if I put the transgender comment on Jazz's page.  Why is that so?

One last example that is really bothering me.  On forum for another show, someone was speaking about how funny a particular comedian was, who happened to be a lesbian.  This person said:

Quote

Anyone who's not prone to pearl clutching and bigoted attitudes toward women should check out her stand up, as well as her sitcom...

Does anyone else see the hateful tone in that comment or have we just gotten so PC that derogatory comments towards, I dunno, anyone who doesn't completely embrace the LBGT community, is accepted and actually encouraged? (so if you don't care for the fact that this woman is a lesbian, you must be a "pearl clutching bigot").  Why?

[ClareWalks]

10 minutes ago, notyrmomma said:

 For example if I say to an obese person, hey, I think you should consider bariatric surgery because you weigh 380 pounds, or how about I say to a transgender person, I know you believe you should have been born a female, but DNA says that you were a male, how about working with a psychiatrist for a few years and hold off pumping yourself with dangerous hormones until at least you are 18 years old?

Oof, this is a hot-button one. I will say that transgender is totally different from obesity, and that going through the puberty of your assigned-at-birth sex is extremely damaging to trans people so that's why a teen like Jazz would take hormone blockers to stop male puberty (so that it would be easier to transition later, and so that you wouldn't have to go through an experience that will make you suicidal). That's why transgender people would seek hormone therapy before age 18. It tends to result in less body-shaming from other people, since you're more likely to "pass" if you don't go through opposite-sex puberty.

[notyrmomma]

24 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Oof, this is a hot-button one. I will say that transgender is totally different from obesity, and that going through the puberty of your assigned-at-birth sex is extremely damaging to trans people so that's why a teen like Jazz would take hormone blockers to stop male puberty (so that it would be easier to transition later, and so that you wouldn't have to go through an experience that will make you suicidal). That's why transgender people would seek hormone therapy before age 18. It tends to result in less body-shaming from other people, since you're more likely to "pass" if you don't go through opposite-sex puberty.

I did the hot button one on purpose because my point was that people are entitled to voice their opinions, both ways, no matter the issue.  If I don't exactly agree with the way you lead your life, you aren't going to die.  To be honest, I personally have no feelings either way on transgender issues (or really LBGT issues--the way I see it, people got to live as they see fit) as I have a lot going in my life and I am too busy being heavily entrenched in obesity issues (no pun intended!) as I am a bariatric patient--if you look at my profile, I'm only active in the weight loss and hoarder shows (oh don't get me started on that one).  One of the main reasons why I started this thread is that I was pissed off in that people who say anything contrary, even polite, to people of a "protected class" are treated as if they were physically hurting that person, and I don't believe that is true (AHEEMMM, Whitney and her minions).  Yes, words can make you sad and stressed, but only you alone can chose on whether or not to dwell on them enough to let them hurt you.  Do you see what I am saying?

Edited January 7, 2017 by notyrmomma
I'll admit it, I suck at writing

[notyrmomma]

3 minutes ago, notyrmomma said:

oops - delete

Edited January 7, 2017 by notyrmomma

[zenme]

I just don't understand the need to say something to someone about THEIR weight. I'm sure they see themselves in the mirror.  I'm all for free speech, but I just don't understand why the need to express an opinion about someone's weight issue to them without them asking you for it. 

[Tosia]

You got it,  zenme! 

Why bother to make a passive -agressive, so-called, "constructive" comment?  Not helpful, and would be (probably) intrusive, arrogantly know-it-all, nosy, and possibly  hurtful to said person. As the saying goes (paraphrased) , " Be kind, because everyone you meet is fighting a great battle of their own. " 

Unless they ask for your opinion-- leave them alone,  and work on yourself.