S23.E13: Week 10

[calipiano81]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I understand where you're coming from, because some of those contestants really couldn't dance, and it was tiresome watching the judges fawn all over them and tell them how "brave" they were every week. But I thought Terra danced quite well. She had some obvious limitations but she sold it 110% every week. It wasn't nearly as awkward as I feared it would be when the season started.

I don't mind if they have contestants with special needs who can show us what they can do. I only mind if the judges pretend they're doing more than they are (*cough*Noah Galloway*cough*)

I strongly agree with both paragraphs.

I also thought Terra did very well and was surprised myself that she and Sasha became my favorite couple this season. She had limitations, but Sasha still filled their dances with proper content that Terra was able to do, which she executed wonderfully and with proper technique.

On top of that, what really made Terra stand out to me was her commitment and performance quality. All the praise James gets for his performing and acting, for me, that was Terra.

Also, I've always thought Sasha to be a positive person, but rather laid-back and calm. This season, he had so much spark and enthusiasm dancing with Terra, and was more vocal than in past seasons, which was a pleasure to see.

Edited November 16, 2016 by calipiano81

[testardo]

I agree. They voted her out before the less talented. But we all know its not a dance contest. Its a popularity contest.

[sinycalone]

I think arguments can be made for both Terra and Jana for remaining....Terra gave it her all each week but Jana is probably a better dancer.  I enjoyed Terra's performances more than Jana's some weeks because of that enthusiasm and working within her limitations.  Jana was not consistent...but her lines were usually very good.

Up thread someone mentioned that they did not think James had star power.  I disagree but understand why some viewers might feel that way.  I loved that he got into the character of each dance and became that person.  On the other hand, I also found Calvin a delight even though he rarely danced as anyone but Calvin.  Both dancers brought different skills and attitudes....but always made me smile.  I prefer James to Calvin....but certainly feel both are strong contenders.

[iMonrey]

I also think James benefited from having Sharna as a partner. At least twice I felt that Lindsay did not do justice to what Calvin was capable of and under-utilized his strengths. But at the end of the day I doubt Calvin was ever going to be as sharp and clean as James, just because he's so damn big.

[RemoteControl88]

This is a strong final 4 so I'm excited for the freestyles. I am dying to know what the pro's have in mind.  Someone always does a contemporary so I would guess it will be Jana and Gleb. I don't think they'll make top 3 though.  For once the personalities of the celebs (Calvin, James or Laurie) don't fit with the usual emotional contemporary freestyle.  That's part of the reason I'm looking forward to the finale because I truly can't guess what route each pro will take.  Other than I know Calvin will have some crazy lifts.

[RedFiat]

50 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I also think James benefited from having Sharna as a partner. At least twice I felt that Lindsay did not do justice to what Calvin was capable of and under-utilized his strengths. But at the end of the day I doubt Calvin was ever going to be as sharp and clean as James, just because he's so damn big.

As much as the Salsa was fun and the lifts were crazy, but it's gotta be tiring to be a climbing toy.  Yes he's strong, but lifting over and over in rehearsal and performance would be exhausting.

[PBGamer89]

18 hours ago, McManda said:

Which would be great, sure, but it's not like this is American Idol, where the winners are overwhelmingly young, white, and male. DWTS has a fairly diverse list of winners; half are minorities, and of the half that are white there's Nyle DiMarco (who is deaf), Jennifer Grey (won at 50), and Donny Osmond (won at 52). That doesn't even take into account the other finalists, many of whom who were also not young, white, or male.

I get what you're saying, but Laurie should win because she's the best - or more accurately because the viewers think she's the best - not because she'd tick some box on an achievement list.

I'm not saying that that statistic is the only reason why she'd win. I think she's the best dancer and would deserve to win.

My comment was to certain blogs/people (PureDWTS for example, a notorious site for hating anything female celeb/Chmerkovskiy bros) say things like Laurie winning wouldn't help the show or bring any headlines/attention and I wanted to point out that it's not the case.

[Kira53]

On 11/15/2016 at 6:06 AM, vibeology said:

Small point, but you don't immigrate from Puerto Rico, just like you don't immigrate from Oregon or Maine. It's part of the United States.

When her grandma came to the mainland Puerto Rican were treated as immigrants.  Check out West Side Story- the dancing is great too if you haven't seen it.  They were not treated as US citizens but as immigrants and discriminated against.  The 1950 were very different than today.

[shoregirl]

I guess this is a unpopular opinion around here but James really does nothing for me as a dancer. The last couple weeks I've fast forwarded his dances because before that I found he was unremarkable and forgettable .  Also ,and not that it matters because everyone received a 30 for their trio dance, but I thought he had an unfair advantage of getting to do his trio with Jenna. he danced with her the previous two weeks and everyone else had a new partner .  

Edited November 17, 2016 by shoregirl

[McManda]

54 minutes ago, shoregirl said:

Also ,and not that it matters because everyone received a 30 for their trio dance, but I thought he had an unfair advantage of getting to do his trio with Jenna. he danced with her the previous two weeks and everyone else had a new partner .  

Not totally true ... Jana and Gleb picked Alan because he was the one to step in during rehearsals last week when Gleb was taking it easy because of his knee (and Jana was crying about only being able to dance with Gleb), and Laurie and Val picked Maks because he was most similar to Val (big bro taught little bro everything he knows) and then Maks ended up not doing that much dancing anyway.

I wouldn't necessarily say James had a bigger advantage over either of them. Calvin and Terra were the only ones to have to really deal with incorporating a new dancer and style into their partnership.

[shoregirl]

10 minutes ago, McManda said:

Not totally true ... Jana and Gleb picked Alan because he was the one to step in during rehearsals last week when Gleb was taking it easy because of his knee (and Jana was crying about only being able to dance with Gleb), and Laurie and Val picked Maks because he was most similar to Val (big bro taught little bro everything he knows) and then Maks ended up not doing that much dancing anyway.

Picking someone with a similar style is not the same as using someone who was your partner for the last two weeks Imo. I would have felt that way no matter who it was not just because I'm not the biggest James fan. If the situation was reversed and  Maks had filled in for Val then was part of the trio i would feel the same .But like I said it doesn't really matter because they were all scored the same.

Edited November 17, 2016 by shoregirl

[sinycalone]

I'd say picking someone who knew your original partner's style completely and thoroughly was a real advantage, who in fact taught your partner for years.  Also, as pointed out by McManda, Alan had worked with Jana and Gleb previously.  It would have been impossible to select someone as the third in a trio who wasn't familiar with all of the pros and had not worked with them all at one point or another.  Not quite the same, I realize, as working with the celeb...but it's why the trios can succeed....the pros know each other very well.

[RedFiat]

5 hours ago, shoregirl said:

Also ,and not that it matters because everyone received a 30 for their trio dance, but I thought he had an unfair advantage of getting to do his trio with Jenna. he danced with her the previous two weeks and everyone else had a new partner .  

I find this kind of hilarious.  We're talking Jenna here, isn't she the one who was supposed to be a liability to James because she's a camera hog and people just don't like her?  So now she's an unfair asset because James danced with her twice previously?

 The truth of the matter is it was extremely difficult for James or any contestant to transition to another partner for a duet where it's literally just you and another dancer on the floor. Your normal dance teacher who also coaches through the entire dance is no where to be found, oh there she is up in the balcony!. Jenna is only the body double, Sharna- your teacher and coach isn't telling you to ease up or turn now!  James did amazingly well on the Halloween dance. But Sharna mentioned that in the Jazz routine, she saw how James was speeding up and would miss that step, but she wasn't there to coach him to slow down, so it is what it is.   

But for Trios, it's a different ballgame.  The coach Sharna is there to help you through while Jenna is following the choreography.  Moreover, if you watch the in hold dancing, most of it was done with Sharna, so she could focus him, only one pass was with Jenna.  Sharna was also there counting out the timing while they did that great  syncronized out of hold kick a flick sequence.  The improvement in James' footwork  really culminated in that  sequence, really best Jive of the season. And it was a Trio all three dancing all the way through.  As Trios go it was pretty strong, but I blame the  choreographer and the celebrity wanting to improve.  

I preferred it over a Trio where the celebrity becomes a climbing toy instead of dancing, or a grimacing Paso,  or even Samba School -where the teacher hangs around for 30 seconds and leaves.  I did like the concept , but it wasn't a trio, it was more like Uncle Drosselmeyer directing Clara and the Nutcracker. 

[boyznkatz]

I wish they would just get rid of the trios. They suck and the gimmicks add nothing to the show. 

Edited November 17, 2016 by boyznkatz

[majormama]

YMMV, of course. I love the trios. I look forward to them every season, and two of my top 10 favorite dances ever were trios.

[Mondayeve]

I watched the afterbuzz dwts.  They seem to think that Jana will win this.  She says is better than Laurie and Jana dances from the heart, etc.  and when Len gets back he will have plenty of praise for her and point out how good she is.   Laurie is their second choice.

So we are at the point of the comp where opinions are varied on who "should" win and who "will" win.  I say it will come down to freestyle and fan bases.  It depends on who you ask what answer you get.  I just hope we get some great freestyles and I think we will.  The beauty of DWTS finals.  It does get raw with all the opinions and fan wars but I think the cast themselves get along well and will support whoever takes it.    

[boyznkatz]

This should be a good final. All four of them are good. I would be surprised if Laurie didn't win. She is cute and fresh off an Olympic medal.

[sbluv2dance]

Will someone please explain what YMMV means?  Its' used a lot, and I can't for the life of me figure out what it means.  It's making me crazy!  Thank you so much!

[Matryoshka]

26 minutes ago, sbluv2dance said:

Will someone please explain what YMMV means?  Its' used a lot, and I can't for the life of me figure out what it means.  It's making me crazy!  Thank you so much!

"Your Mileage May Vary." It's used as shorthand for "this is my opinion; yours may be different."

[gimmeegimmeegim]

3 hours ago, Mondayeve said:

  They seem to think that Jana will win this. 

LMAOAMTAOTP

[iMonrey]

Quote

Also ,and not that it matters because everyone received a 30 for their trio dance, but I thought he had an unfair advantage of getting to do his trio with Jenna. he danced with her the previous two weeks and everyone else had a new partner .  

I don't think it makes the slightest bit of difference since nobody had done a trio dance up to that point. Now, if everyone suddenly had to switch partners and James got Jenna? Yeah, that would seriously be unfair since she'd already danced with him twice. But for a trio dance? That's an equally new challenge to everyone regardless who they get as their third.

Quote

I wish they would just get rid of the trios. They suck and the gimmicks add nothing to the show. 

I like them when they work, but as I said earlier, some dance styles lend themselves to trio dances better than others. So I do think it's unfair when a trio gets stuck with a Tango while another trio gets a Jive or a Salsa. Tangos just weren't meant to be danced by three people, period, whereas a lot of those "party dances" look fine no matter how many people are dancing to them. A Waltz would be another hard one for three people.

Edited November 17, 2016 by iMonrey

[RedFiat]

IMO the trios can work with any dance as long as the choreographer has a vision. One of my favorites was the Foxtrot  Sadie, Mark and Emma... I wasn't even rooting for Sadie that season, but that Trio was the bomb.  I think the Waltz would work just as well, maybe even better as long as the celebrity has a nice flow and strong footwork.  

Edited November 17, 2016 by RedFiat

[RedFiat]

On 11/15/2016 at 8:26 PM, legaleagle53 said:

The music that was used for Laurie's Foxtrot was simply too hard and sharp to make for an elegant, graceful, fluid Foxtrot, so I don't think Val had any choice but to choreograph a Foxtrot that was too aggressive, hard and sharp and that completely lacked any fluidity

On the one hand yes the dance lacked fluidity and gracefulness, but on the other, although Val has choreographed lovely flowy Foxtrots, in the last few seasons he now has as penchant for choreographing sharp hard foxtrots, he choreographed Rumor's "Take Me To Church" and that Beauty and the Beast Foxtrot for Ginger had a tangoesque sequence and sharp movement on the musical accents, with very little actual Foxtrot at all.  

But remarkably when Rumor and Val  had to re-work that Foxtrot in a dance off to a traditional foxtrot tempo to Orange Colored sky,  suddenly the true beauty of that dance was revealed with more flow.  

So I am more inclined to think that song choice is often from a list that the pro submits, and either Val hasn't submitted much in the way of traditional smooth ballroom music, or even music that would help with Foxtrot tempo and flow, or they just want pop music for Laurie .  

[boyznkatz]

16 hours ago, RedFiat said:

IMO the trios can work with any dance as long as the choreographer has a vision. One of my favorites was the Foxtrot  Sadie, Mark and Emma... I wasn't even rooting for Sadie that season, but that Trio was the bomb.  I think the Waltz would work just as well, maybe even better as long as the celebrity has a nice flow and strong footwork.  

Yeah, that was the only dance of Sadie's that I remember.  It was quite good.

[iMonrey]

Quote

IMO the trios can work with any dance as long as the choreographer has a vision. One of my favorites was the Foxtrot  Sadie, Mark and Emma... I wasn't even rooting for Sadie that season, but that Trio was the bomb.  I think the Waltz would work just as well, maybe even better as long as the celebrity has a nice flow and strong footwork. 

Sure but a pro and/or choreographer has a much tougher challenge coming up with a Trio Tango than they would for a Trio Jive or a Trio Salsa. That strikes me as unfair. And even if they did choreograph an "interesting" Trio Tango or Trio Waltz, they'd have to break the rules. Some of these dances are supposed to be in hold the whole way through, and obviously three people can't be in hold through a whole dance. So I guess Len has to look the other way when it's not actually a proper Tango or Waltz when they have to do Trio dances.

[RedFiat]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Sure but a pro and/or choreographer has a much tougher challenge coming up with a Trio Tango than they would for a Trio Jive or a Trio Salsa. That strikes me as unfair. And even if they did choreograph an "interesting" Trio Tango or Trio Waltz, they'd have to break the rules. Some of these dances are supposed to be in hold the whole way through, and obviously three people can't be in hold through a whole dance. So I guess Len has to look the other way when it's not actually a proper Tango or Waltz when they have to do Trio dances.

This show is about American Smooth in the standard ballroom dances, meaning for Foxtrot, Tango  Waltz and VWaltz there is no rule against breaking hold. You can have an open hold or break hold all together. The only dance that is closed hold is Quickstep, that is because it is not part of the American Smooth dance syllabus. It is International standard ballroom, the syllabus that Len learned to dance, so he often judges from that perspective, but if he gets a mix of in closed hold and open hold he's happy. The Foxtrot that Mark Sadie and Emma did he loved and gave it a 10. American Smooth allows for greater freedom to choreograph theatrical show dances so a better fit stylistically than International standard for this show.

Quickstep is the only dance that should be in hold for most of the dance, except we saw an exception on Jana and Gleb's dance last week.  

I am going to say that for the trio dance styles that are perceived to be difficult to 

choreograph, it is all about the choreographer.   A team Tango can be excellent especially because American Smooth Tango includes some marching steps, and should move around the entire ballroom, whereas a Salsa can be a little more difficult to synchronize since you have to be rhythmical and utilize hip action which doesn't look the same on everyone, and therefore some of the timing can easily go wrong. 

Edited November 19, 2016 by RedFiat

[mimib101]

On 11/15/2016 at 8:00 AM, Morrigan said:

Gleb is a sloppy dancer. In his season in the UK, he dropped three different partners, and one of them was unable to appear on the tour because of it. I think he's also leading whatsername on because showmances are the key to making it on these crappy shows.

I know he dropped Natalie before the tour - who were the other two?

[marriedaniac]

Gleb is pretty and he knows it. However, he is not the dancer the other pros are, and that was evident this week.

I hope Jana & Gleb are next out, then Calvin for 3rd, then... well, James OR Laurie could win!

Edited November 21, 2016 by marriedaniac

[rr2911]

. First of all I want to say that even though Terra did perform well, there were still times that her short comings were obvious. (no pun intended) So Terra's elimination was indeed long coming.

. I'm still wondering why Calvin Johnson is still getting props from the judges and fans. He's a big dude who moves like cardboard with a Michael Irvin smile. Look, he looks like a real nice guy, but he should've been eliminated a long time ago.

. Jana is a good dancer and her expressions seem to bother people. They don't bother me. However, to me she's just not in the same league as Laurie.

. James is amazing! You can't tell which is the pro and which is the celeb. He deserves to be in the finals.

. Laurie! What can I say that hasn't already been said? She's great, great, great!!! She should win it all! I think she's head and shoulders above everybody.

First to go - Calvin
Second to go - Jana

Champion - Laurie
Runner-up - James

[Morrigan]

23 hours ago, mimib101 said:

I know he dropped Natalie before the tour - who were the other two?

He dropped Kristina Rihanoff when they were preparing for a pro number. Now I can't remember the third - maybe his celeb partner Anita? Or maybe it was Aliona. I just remember that it was 3.

Kristina's not holding any grudges - she and Gleb are doing a performance in London on December 11.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Morrigan