Season 3 Discussion

[PinkRibbons]

Technically this should probably have gone in the media thread, but I thought this badass new trailer deserved a shiny new topic of its own:

[Ravenya003]

I'm pleased to note that 

Spoiler

Tituba is still alive and kicking.

[BigBlueMastiff]

Yay!

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/08/05/salem-marilyn-manson-season-3-trailer

[PinkRibbons]

Quote

In the Season 3 premiere, the people of Salem come to the frightening conclusion that their only hope for surviving the hell that has risen is to raise the dead.

We are BACK!

[BigBlueMastiff]

Yay, when?

[PinkRibbons]

9 minutes ago, BigBlueMastiff said:

Yay, when?

Tonight at 9:00 PM!

[BigBlueMastiff]

CAN NOT WAIT

[PinkRibbons]

Quote

Mary is hell-bent on keeping evil at bay when she leaves the comfort of Alden's arms.

[PinkRibbons]

Interesting episode...I like them playing with shades of gray. It's more overt with Anne, but I think we're seeing it with Mercy too.

The thing about Anne is that obviously what she's doing is not okay at all, but at the same time we have Cotton who refuses to even try to wrap his head around why Anne has made the choices she has. Last season he wouldn't listen for a second when she talked about not wanting to be powerless, and he seems to have made up his mind that she is Evil, full stop. But even Alden sees that it's nowhere near that easy. Anne has always been the wild card of the Essex witches. I have a nasty feeling the show is going to be sending her down the path to becoming the Big Bad, which is a shame. Her desire to be good is interesting to watch. She wants out of dodge, but she isn't the schemer many of the other characters are. So there she sits, with no idea how to keep Cotton quiet without resorting to extreme measures and no clue as to how to interfere with Baby!Satan's plans. She's left just trying to please him in hopes he doesn't destroy her and Cotton along with everyone else. In the end the best she can do is tread water.

As for Mercy, I know she's widely hated but I've always enjoyed her, if only because I love how she looks. I like this season's new roccoco(?) look for her. Last season she went all Pretty Princess (for the child luring), but now she's more mature and decadent. I think the reason Mercy has persisted on this show so long is that she's the tie to the original, incredibly fascinating true story of Salem -- that during a time when women had little to no power or agency, a bunch of young girls suddenly became so powerful that they ended up causing 20 deaths just by by pointing at people. Suddenly someone was listening. So now Mercy is the representation of those girls; the ones that just wanted to be heard or respected, that ended up wreaking unimaginable havoc while drunk with power. 

I think it's interesting that Mercy is now at the point where she absolutely prioritizes herself, and yet she is still working in her own sick way on the behalf of other powerless girls. Yes, she's feeding on their blood, which, ick. But it doesn't look like she's killing them, and she's also providing them safe haven and eliminating their tormentors. Mercy is sort of a reverse Anne. I don't think she any longer has illusions about herself being good, but there is a trickle of goodness left in her. Like Anne, Mercy's also a wild card; it would be very interesting for her to end up playing for the good side.

Other thoughts:

I wonder how long Cotton will go before he realizes that with Baby!Satan on the loose, they're going to need to fight fire with fire.

Tituba rocks. I really hope she has a grander part in bringing down Baby!Satan; as Petrus suggested; it wasn't just Mary that started it all, it was Tituba and Mary.

Love that Isaac is actually apparently a master manipulator.

Sebastian has a sad puppy-dog quality to me.

Um, Witches? When you know your Master is commonly known as "The Prince of Lies", why on earth would you think he'd keep any promises he made to you?

[placate]

Well...I kinda thought one or two of those deaths from last season would've stuck, guess not.

[Dream Boy]

Man, Anne has totally lost and I was a fan! But what she's doing to Cotton now is horrible. At this point, she deserves a huge fall.

Seeing and hearing Mercy again was like nails on a chalkboard lol I'm going to need Isaac to handle her once and for all. Speaking of which, he cleaned up pretty good.

I'm here for Tituba and Mary. 

[Advance35]

Not a bad opening.  Interesting that we are seeing more covens of witches.  The one's that met Sebastian and His Master in the forest seem like new players on the board, I guess with the Countess deposed, they felt it was time to come out of the woodwork.

Anne Hale, who would have pictured her where she is now.  I honestly agree with her in the sense that Mary Sibley started ALL of this.  She caused countless suffering for Salem and Anne has kind of inherited the "Natasha" role to Sebastian's "Boris".   How long had it been since she had a scene with John Alden?

So Mary and Tituba are going to save the world?  Hmmmmmm.

[PinkRibbons]

Writer's Wrap for the episode:

[Happytobehere]

This was a show I was interested in when it first came on, but my provider only recently began carrying WGN.  Is it a show I can pick up on, or am I better off foregoing this season until I can catch up? 

[PinkRibbons]

[Bort]

There isn't enough traffic in this forum to warrant individual episode threads, so please direct all current season 3 episode discussion to this thread. 

[Chaos Theory]

I must have missed the first episode.  Apparently I tuned in during the second.  

I really enjoy the series but not so much John and Mary,  it's weird.  I am pretty sure it's an unpopular opinion but I am enjoying the relationship between Anne and Cotton.  I actually thought the line of the night was "Even if I'm in a Godless world there is still you."  

[Dream Boy]

Wow. A lot happened this episode. Glad that they didn't drag out the Mary return reveal and surprised that her status as double agent was revealed so quickly. Mary has become one of my favorite characters. So, I hope that she's going to make it through this.

Speaking of favorite characters, I've really enjoyed Tituba last season and this season as well. I'm not sure how she and Mary are going to pull this off against such powerful enemies but we'll see.

I'm ready to start a #FreeCotton campaign. Poor man. 

On 11/5/2016 at 9:10 PM, Happytobehere said:

This was a show I was interested in when it first came on, but my provider only recently began carrying WGN.  Is it a show I can pick up on, or am I better off foregoing this season until I can catch up? 

There are a lot of threads from season 2 continued in this season. So, I would definitely get caught up first. 

[Happytobehere]

4 hours ago, Dream Boy said:

There are a lot of threads from season 2 continued in this season. So, I would definitely get caught up first. 

Thanks.

[BindsTheTuna]

After Cotton and Anne Did It, he took something from her when she was asleep, but the show is so dark, I couldn't see what it was. The mouse? 

[BigBlueMastiff]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 2:41 PM, BindsTheTuna said:

After Cotton and Anne Did It, he took something from her when she was asleep, but the show is so dark, I couldn't see what it was. The mouse? 

The brown mouse, Anne's familiar, is inside of Cotton to keep him where Anne wants him.

Finally caught up on the first three eps, and this show is killing it. I like Mercy and Isaac's new roles. Mercy is more nuanced as the madam, loved how she got to Hathorne. I am really enjoying the feminism of these women in such an oppressive patriarchal society. I'd be a witch, too, if forced to live under such conditions.

Tituba restoring her eyesight, and using the cat to spy on baby Lucifer's house was cool. Did that box on Mary's head remind anyone else of Hellraiser? Which fallen angel is baby Lucifer's new right hand, and interesting that he would tell Sebastian to hide his emotions, hmmmm...

How will Mary get herself out of this mess? Did Anne pick up her familiar (thought Cotton killed him) in the woods or Mary's? So many questions... Love this show.

[Chaos Theory]

Run Cotton Run!  No not into the arms of a witchy couple who wants to make Cotton pie....although that does sound yummy.    Fun scenes though.  Do we kill Cotton now or do we kill him later?  Oh Hi there other Witch....oh poor poor Cotton.  Just when he thinks he is out another Witch pulls him back in.

[PinkRibbons]

I was wondering why Anne was being so incredibly creepy when she sent her spirit out to Cotton. She couldn't say outright that The Literal Devil is isn't gonna just lay down for a bunch of guys from Boston? Or that Cotton is endangering not only himself but all of Salem? Cotton is sweet but he's just so...cotton-headed. He doesn't thinks about any situation as nuanced or delicate; he has to use a hammer on everything. I would just like him to try to see the situation from Anne's POV. I didn't enjoy the fact that he got captured, though I loved his captors. I do like that Tituba may finally be his means of seeing some of the shades of gray among the witches.

In contrast I loved the scene in Mercy's brothel with the girls defending her to Isaac. I think he, despite his fury at Mercy, is better at seeing The Gray. And meanwhile I like Mercy and Hathorne. I can actually see them being an intelligent team together whereas individually...not so much. Now if only Hathorne would tell her to tone down the crazy eyes. Also, am I weird or...are those birds in her room all stolen penises? Because that is some of the weirdest symbolism I've seen yet.

Emily Skeggs is killing it as Billy. I actually had to look her up on imdb to see if it wasn't a male actor playing her. Adopting opposite gender mannerisms is an impressive feat, I've tried it myself and couldn't so much as get my walk right. (Never thought of myself as all that naturally girly until I saw a video of myself in a trouser role and that the sway of my ass gave me away immediately.)

I had to laugh at Rebecca Nurse showing up as a young woman. I mean that was a real person who was hanged as a witch and she was ancient IRL, especially for back then. Mary is so full of shit though about not taking the blame for her death. She was exactly the person who came up with the idea of getting the Puritans to sacrifice their own for her ends. Meanwhile Isaac's "girl" is I suppose meant to be Dorcas Good. Really wish the writers had called her Dorothy.

[qtpye]

This show has some of the most beautiful and horrifying imagery I have ever seen.  American Horror Story throws everything at you, but it starts to get boring.  This show is much more intelligent with it's visuals.  The acting is also usually top notch.

However, the whole thing with the Essex witches was so stupid.  Satan is not going to keep his promise and treat a bunch of hygiene challenged wart encrusted old hags as special?  What a surprise...he must be stopped.  I would have respected this show a lot more if they still were on Satan's side.

It also makes little sense.  Like the finale last season when he killed all those witches who were devoted to him and only kept Mary around, even though she tried to stop his resurrection.  I know he is in love with her (and I adore the actress that plays Mary), but it is stupid he keeps her around, even without powers.

I in turn go from liking to being annoyed by little boy Satan, I hope we get to see him take on a more imposing form.

Isaac looking so handsome was surprising to me.

It was cook seeing Marilyn Manson, but he really can not act for shit (this was in the first episode).  His speaking and singing voice seem exactly the same.

Was Mercy banging Hawthorne with a fake penis that later turned into a mouse....cuz, I have to say...that is something that sort of blows my mind!

Edited December 2, 2016 by qtpye

[Dream Boy]

On 12/2/2016 at 10:28 AM, qtpye said:

 

Was Mercy banging Hawthorne with a fake penis that later turned into a mouse....cuz, I have to say...that is something that sort of blows my mind!

I thought it was her bird. Despite that display of weirdness, I still hate Mercy lol

I'm quite ready for Satan to take a powder now. But I'm starting to think that there's no one that can take him out. 

Poor Cotton can't catch a break lol but yay to Tituba helping him. She has officially become my MVP

[BigBlueMastiff]

MM wasn't  even  trying  to sound like was from the period, ruining  his scenes for me.

[Chaos Theory]

Ok do I have the latest revelations  correct;  

1:  Cotton's new super baby isn't Anne's

2:  Titubais once again playing all sides because that is how Tituba.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[PinkRibbons]

I am officially way too invested in Anne because I felt gut-punched when Gloriana showed up. Poor Anne is just so monumentally screwed: if she does the right thing and tells Cotton, he'll flee with Gloriana and even if they manage to make it to safety, Anne is dead. If she uses magic to (I'm guessing) magically transport the fetus into herself (although Gloriana looks ready to pop, try to explain that one Annie) or something like that Cotton will never ever forgive her and probably take off with the baby once it's born. Honestly I mostly feel bad for her because she must feel almost like she's had a miscarriage. Ordered the cradle, started trying to be a good person, hoping to save her marriage, wanting a baby in general...all gone. That's just sad.

I knew Tituba was setting up someone as the spy but I did not see it as her covering for herself. She is either the smartest or the absolute stupidest witch in the world. I wonder if that blood promise gives her some kind of power over Baby!Satan. I wonder how she'll handle the Sentinel, who is starting to seem quite layered as a person/fallen angel.

I've always been a Mercy apologist, so the freeing Hathorne/accepting her fate/her girls voluntarily bleeding for her was genuinely touching to me.

Oh and poor Billy. Fridged to make Alden feel all heroic again.

Finally: they got Lucy Lawless to do a voiceover!!! Dare we ask that she returns in the magnificent flesh at some point?

Edited December 8, 2016 by PinkRibbons
Forgot about Billy!!!

[coppersin]

I'm rooting for Sebastian, I'm just not sure what I'm rooting for. Doubtful he'll end up with Mary; she'll get her happy ending with John if anyone. He's (presumably) on the losing side, but at least he isn't starstruck like his mother or blinded by faith like most witches. I like him being bad but I also want him to last if we get another season. So for now I guess I'm just rooting for him to live?

[Dream Boy]

Man, as annoyed as I have been by Anne this season, I felt really bad seeing her tortured by Satan. That was really disturbing and I'm glad that Cotton came to her aid, despite all of the shit she has put him through. Speaking of which, I recognized Gloriana immediately and it dawned on me exactly what was going to happen. Very clever, show. Hopefully, Anne doesn't do anything stupid. But this is Anne so that's highly likely. lol

So, Tituba is what now? A triple agent? I can't wait to see her showdown with the Sentinel. And I agree that there is more to the deal, sealed in blood, than they are leading us to believe.

I can't believe this is the end of Billy. Bummer.

Mercy sucks and it sucks even more that it appears we are still not done with her yet! 

Help me. I'm actually shipping Mary and Sebastian!

[rcc]

Was that really Lucy Lawless speaking. I wonder if she came back for some voice work or did she do it at the end of last season and they are using it now.

[Chaos Theory]

It's kinda weird I am actually liking Mercy this season.  I think pairing her with Alpha Asshole Hale is an awesome idea.  

I always did like Sebastian and Mary as a painr maybe because I don't like John and Mary.  Or maybe I just find John boring.  I think this episode was the most I have ever liked him.  To bad the show had to kill Billy.  Billy made John an interesting character.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[BigBlueMastiff]

I like Mercy more this season, too. Her character has more depth, and is not just portrayed as evil. Bummed about  Billy, and Tituba's triple cross threw me. Hope that blood oath means something. Agree with others shipping Sebastian and Mary, glad to see a more nuanced character.

[Dream Boy]

So, I'm officially over Ann again lol the Cotton stuff was icky enough, but this new plot? There's just no coming back. She needs to pay and pay hard. 

This show is trying so hard to sell us on John/Mary but I've never felt it. I think she has far more chemistry with Sebastian but he's just too damned twisted. 

Isaac actually having some power and respectability should be interesting. 

[Chaos Theory]

Ann has just officially gone past downward spiral and off the deep end..,.and I love it.  Cotton and Ann are my favorite story.  Of course Ann has to pay in some way. I  love a good female villain especially since we have seen Anne progression from pure snowflake to someone desperate enough to steal another women's baby.  God I love Ann.

Dont judge me!  

Edited December 17, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[PinkRibbons]

Yeah, Anne snapped just like a twig, didn't she? I actually came to the conclusion that this final, complete abandonment of attempting to justify herself (and the attendant acting like an utter psychopath, all la-dee-dah while spell making and baby stealing) has summoned out her Hag. Mary had one, Anne was bound to get one. Anyway, she's fun as hell to watch. It occurs to me that Cotton actually handed her the answer to one of her problems when he tried to get her to move out; she can say that in her worry about The Coming End, the stuff she was preparing was to hasten the pregnancy so she can give birth before then and be in fighting shape just in case. At this point I'm so enjoying her that I actually found myself snapping, "loose end, loose end, kill Gloriana!!!" at her because I found that sloppy. I mean, she killed both her parents with disturbingly little effort, just neck-snap and use Sebastian's body-vanishing trick. (Although hopefully not to have Gloriana eaten.)

I've never particularly liked Mary so I'm not hoping for a good end for her. That being said, I did feel sorry for her with Sebastian, although frankly I was more proud of Sebastian for not playing into her overconfident charms. And by the by, the dude seems to be all about consent. Mary couldn't have gone, "no, I will not have sex with you in front of another person, I do not have a voyeurism kink thank you, put it away because I will never be up for this, be it my ex-lover or some random person I don't know"? I don't care how much you want to prove you don't love someone, if you can't perform for an audience it's not a sign you actually love the audience.

Cotton, if God himself is present in moving the chess pieces, maybe take a moment and go, "ARE YOU AWARE OF WHAT IS GOING ON HERE BECAUSE WE COULD SERIOUSLY USE SOME HELP." I know he was overcome with reverence, but seriously, send an SOS.

I've been watching season 2 and am enjoying how much Hathorne was into putting women down because now to find out that he's only happy when he has a woman controlling him. Although when Mercy said there was one obstacle, I thought she was going to mention who exactly was supposed to run the bordello (and her blood supply) if she became respectable. Is Isaac really a problem if she marries Hathorne? She'd basically be untouchable by him.

[sippinsyrup]

As Anne seems to be on a road to power, Cotton is on death row. The speak Mercy gave to Anne about true power feels like foreshadowing.

[CourtneyCourt]

I need an hour of Anne and Cotton every episode! That was intense! How to explain to Cotton she suddenly is huge? 

[Negritude]

On ‎11‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 9:25 AM, BigBlueMastiff said:

 I am really enjoying the feminism of these women in such an oppressive patriarchal society. I'd be a witch, too, if forced to live under such conditions.

 

Word.

[Ravenya003]

I've just caught up with the six episodes, just in time to hear that show is ending with this season - but hey, three seasons is a respectable run, and hopefully it means they'll provide a decent ending and not a cliff-hanger. It certainly feels as though we're moving into endgame territory now.

I'm enjoying Mary's plot this year: not only in making her face the women she had hanged, but taking away her powers. I didn't see that coming, and now she's only got her wiles to make things right. Still, she's still a bit over her head: not twigging that Tituba is working against her, and underestimating Sebastian (he might "love" her, but he's not going to be a devoted puppy because of it). 

I really hope they've got a therapist on stand-by for the kid who plays Lucifer. Given some of the things they have him say and do, he might need one. From a story POV though, it makes sense that he wants to marry Mary - this was something pretty heavily foreshadowed with the Countess/Sebastian last season. 

As Mercy gets herself together (and thank goodness the actress has toned her performance down a bit) Anne starts to walk the crazy path. Poor Gloriana - I wondered if they'd ever bring her back, and they decide to do it in the cruellest way possible. 

On 20/12/2016 at 8:52 AM, CourtneyCourt said:

How to explain to Cotton she suddenly is huge? 

Honestly, I would buy it if in that day and age, men (especially Cotton) had no idea what constitutes the pregnancy trimesters and the growth of a baby - if Anne tries to pass it off as completely normal, he'd probably go with it. (Or else she probably go for the "witch pregnancy" excuse).

John continues to be a little boring, and I've no idea why they killed off "Billy" - she was a good character; sacrificed to give him a pep talk and advance his story, much like the Native Americans last season.

Cotton's little sojourn with the cannibals in the woods made for a rather odd comedic turn. Did anyone else recognise the holographic Doctor from Star Trek Voyager?

Marilyn Manson looks like he's having a good time, and I don't think he's that bad an actor. Seeing him without all his usual makeup though - he's so hilariously normal looking. 

Damn Mary has some nice clothes. I may have made a little squeak when we saw her room full of gowns: a lot of the budget must be spent on the costumer. 

[rcc]

Did they really kill off the devil boy!

[PinkRibbons]

I wonder what it says about me that I'm rooting for Anne, Sebastian, and Mercy to make it out alive. And maybe Tituba.

Tamzin really got to cut loose in her performance; her speech to Cotton was incredible. And in a weird way it's a logical progression; she's always been the one chafing at the bit since the beginning of the show, especially around gender roles and societal expectations. Whatever she wanted to do with herself was always blocked by her parents or Mary or Cotton or the Puritans. At this point she was trying her all to be the wife Cotton wants her to be, and not even knowing what she did to Gloriana, Cotton still grabbed the opportunity to cheat on his wife. (Obviously it's a shitty marriage built on lies, but they were trying at least to patch things up). He's a hypocrite who's had the world handed to him and expects it to go on that way. I think you can really see Anne snap when he starts ordering her to fix Gloriana. It's not so much what he wants, but the fact that he believes that ordering Anne around is an effective way of communicating with her. I can kind of sympathize her just wanting him dead already. She's made her own choices but it comes down to the fact that everything Anne has ever intentionally done that has compromised her morals was in service to getting or keeping Cotton. And was he worth all that sacrifice to her? Because lbr, Cotton is weak. I bet he would have cheated the second he saw Gloriana no matter whether Anne was a witch or their marriage was perfectly normal.

I wish Mercy had been a hell of a lot savvier and just given Dorcas back with some spell laid on her that would kill her if Isaac bothered her again. I even think it might have been a good move to just get him up there and release Dorcas with no strings at all; Isaac has enough honor to respect that she could have killed the girl but chose to give her back. No diplomacy there.

(As an aside, I think one of the reasons this forum has dried up is that the episodes are being uploaded on certain sites on Sunday afternoon lately. I didn't come to chat because I was worried I wouldn't remember correctly by the time Wednesday came around.) Well, one more episode to go. If I was a bettin' man I'd put everything on Mary dying.

[Dream Boy]

7 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

Tamzin really got to cut loose in her performance; her speech to Cotton was incredible. And in a weird way it's a logical progression; she's always been the one chafing at the bit since the beginning of the show, especially around gender roles and societal expectations. Whatever she wanted to do with herself was always blocked by her parents or Mary or Cotton or the Puritans. At this point she was trying her all to be the wife Cotton wants her to be, and not even knowing what she did to Gloriana, Cotton still grabbed the opportunity to cheat on his wife. (Obviously it's a shitty marriage built on lies, but they were trying at least to patch things up). He's a hypocrite who's had the world handed to him and expects it to go on that way. I think you can really see Anne snap when he starts ordering her to fix Gloriana. It's not so much what he wants, but the fact that he believes that ordering Anne around is an effective way of communicating with her. I can kind of sympathize her just wanting him dead already. She's made her own choices but it comes down to the fact that everything Anne has ever intentionally done that has compromised her morals was in service to getting or keeping Cotton. And was he worth all that sacrifice to her? Because lbr, Cotton is weak. I bet he would have cheated the second he saw Gloriana no matter whether Anne was a witch or their marriage was perfectly normal.

Well, considering she used witchcraft to get him and keep him, she shouldn't be too surprised that he would jump at the chance to get back with his true love. As it is, Cotton appeared to be more afraid of Anne than in love with her. It wasn't too long ago that she'd pretty much transformed him into a living puppet. So, despite the fire in Tamzin's speech, I have no sympathy for Anne. She's made her bed. 

Speaking of which, it saddens me to have to jump off of the Tituba train because I was enjoying her this season. But bringing back the Devil is just foolishness on her part. He has shown that he is loyal to no one but himself. Hell, he just orchestrated the murder of his sibling and is the reason she's walking around with cat eyes. SMH

Poor Isaac and Dorcas. Hopefully this ends with the citizens tearing Mercy and Hawthorne apart.

Lots going on leading up to the finale. I'm curious how they will tie it all up in an hour. 

[Chaos Theory]

Oh incest Gods!  How you have blessed me,  I worship you and your favored daughter Anne.  Oh Anne how you have grown from innocent snowflake to mighty sword of angry feminist vengeance,  How I love and worship thee.  I am your unworthy servant.  

 

Mary: "You will damn generations to hell on earth because of your own bitter heart."

Anne:  "You are absolutely right.  I would.  Happily.  I would turn the earth into a bitter desert in the very image of my heart."

 

If you can't tell by all this I adore Anne and think she is the best character on the show.  I have loved her progression from innocent to damned.  I have loved the fact that she has been chopping at the bit for a freedom she could never quite define.   All the rest of the characters (including Cotton, Mary, and Tituba) I have liked and disliked depending on the story but it has only been Anne who I have loved since almost day one.   Her marriage to Cotton was a never good one and was never going to last but I thought it fell apart fabulously and her lines with Mary were probably the lines that defined her best and were ironic because they were lines that Mary would have said season one.  Mary was exactly in Anne's place when the show started.  Now Anne is standing there; willing to damn the world for her bitter heart.

I have said this multiple times on multiple boards: I love a good downward spiral.  Especially when it is done by a female character and I have rarely seen one done as well as and as epically as Anne.   The show made a series out of it.  

Edited January 20, 2017 by Chaos Theory
just cleaned up post a bit.

[Ravenya003]

Yikes, is there really only one episode left? I hope they find a way to wrap it up and not stop on a cliff-hanger leading to a season four that'll never happen.

Anne Hale/Tamzin Merchant has had a fantastic three-season arc. Remember when she was a bright-eyed teenager with an innocent heart? Now look at her! It's been a lot of fun seeing this development take place, and I'm gonna miss her. 

If anything it was an episode for the embittered oppressed: Anne tells a man what it's like for a woman to live in this world, and Tituba tells a wealthy white woman what it's like for a black person to be enslaved. It reminds me of an article I read recently, somewhere or other: treating others with cruelty doesn't make them noble martyrs, it just gives them fangs and claws.  All things considered, it's no wonder they both turned to the devil - though unfortunately, I think they're backing the wrong horse.

It's a shame we're only getting to hear Lucy Lawless and not see her. Ah well, it's an easy gig for her. 

Mercy/Issac have been so far removed from the main plot this season that I'm having trouble caring about them, but if anyone deserves to get a happy ending out of the mass slaughter that'll probably take place next week, it's Isaac. Fingers crossed for him and his adoptive daughter. 

[rcc]

I am so glad that they didn't recast Lucy. Nobody could have done the role of the Countess any better. We get her photoshopped blue eyes and I think it's a genius decision by the producers.

[qtpye]

On 1/20/2017 at 9:14 PM, Ravenya003 said:

f anything it was an episode for the embittered oppressed: Anne tells a man what it's like for a woman to live in this world, and Tituba tells a wealthy white woman what it's like for a black person to be enslaved. It reminds me of an article I read recently, somewhere or other: treating others with cruelty doesn't make them noble martyrs, it just gives them fangs and claws.  All things considered, it's no wonder they both turned to the devil - though unfortunately, I think they're backing the wrong horse.

What I love about this world is that everyone is a grey hat.  No one is perfect, but the actors are very good and all their developments are very organic.

It was good to see the wretched realized how self absorbed they are...Mary might have had her hard times, but it pales to being ripped away from your people and enslaved.

I think what doomed this show was American Horror Story's Coven season, which was not very good.  I remember seeing the promos for this show about Salem and thinking they were trying to squeeze water from a stone.  I really wish there was a fourth season, but they do not have anywhere to go.  There is only so many times that the devil can be resurrected.

I understand Tituba's pain, but does she not remember the last time the devil came back, he banished her, had birds peck out her eyes, and left her for dead?  The devil only cares for himself and his creepy obsession with Mary.  He is has no loyalty to any of his followers, look at what he did to the Countess.

[Chaos Theory]

8 minutes ago, qtpye said:

 

I understand Tituba's pain, but does she not remember the last time the devil came back, he banished her, had birds peck out her eyes, and left her for dead?  The devil only cares for himself and his creepy obsession with Mary.  He is has no loyalty to any of his followers, look at what he did to the Countess.

Don't think she cares anymore.  Like Anne I think she would be happy just to watch the world burn in the name to her bitter heart.

i think that is the irony even the Sentinel wanted to open the gates of hell to save "his brothers" but little Devil boy John only wants to beat and then be God and Anne open the door to hell because of simple bitterness.  There are people who have complicated reasons for doing very bad things while others will happily watch the world burn out of spite.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[Chaos Theory]

Well damn show.  That was one Hell of a series finale.  Pun intended.  

I liked that the show kept with what it was good at and evil both triumphed and lost.  Damn Anne Hale!   Just Damn!  

Cotton choosing Hell was touching in alot of ways especially with that bit with Mary and them forgiving each other for the slights both big and small they committed against each other.  Then Cotton basically telling Anne that he would prefer an eternity in literal hell then being with her.  Burn!  

Anne basically just took out everyone so she could be the last witch and write the legend of Salem.  Which is a nice way to end the show.  Anne Hale serial killer (or would that be spree killer?)  Because Damn Anne Hale.  

Of course the two people to survive (beside Anne of course) were Mary and John.   They were the romantic heroes of the story.  Where it all began so they either had to die in each others arms or walk away together.

Even poor Isaac.

Still nice that Sebastian wasn't a complete douche.  

I don't think I have been this satisfied with an ending to a show in a long time.

Although wouldn't mind a spinoff with either Anne Hale or Cotton in Hell.  

Someone get on either of those options.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[PinkRibbons]

I glanced at something in Entertainment Weekly about how with all the revivals of television shows going on now, show runners are now looking differently at the series finale, not to make ending too definite. To me, that is the only possible justification for Mary making it out of this alive. It goes against her narrative appallingly. She never redeemed herself for all she did (and would have continued doing if it hadn't been her own son on the line) on this show. Not only does she get to walk off into the sunset with her one-eared lover, she gets a warm shmoopy hug from Cotton Mather, of all people? The only way I'll be okay with that is if they hope to have her return on a new show. On the opposite end of the spectrum, Tituba paid for her part in all this And Then Some. Frankly I thought her ending was utterly unnecessary -- Anne should have killed her so she could dance with the devil at the gates of hell, like the witches of the old covens believed would happen after death. Tituba was the most faithful servant there was to the devil, I kind of feel like she deserves a reward from him. Cotton's ending had an ironic satisfaction -- spend your life preaching about how to get out of hell, end up there of your own free will.

All that being said, Janet Montgomery is a treasure. Her Countess Marburg was uncanny.

Mercy dying just made me sad. She and Hathorne were oddly touching. And I like how Isaac discovered that his crusade against Mercy wasn't going to automatically make the world a shiny place. I don't think Isaac is necessarily dead, but I did find it funny that he essentially told Anne Hale that absolute power would corrupt her absolutely when she was already corrupted beyond absolutely anyone's reckoning.

So speaking of Anne Hale. DAAAAAAMN, gurl! I was a little worried by her little crazy mannerisms at the beginning of the episode -- I thought Tamzin was playing it a little too girlishly whacky. But then she turned around and basically surpassed everybody who has ever been on the show. She took her mother's dream of birthing and then marrying Satan for herself, managed to impress Satan enough for him to be into it, did John Alden's job and rid Salem of every last witch (aside from herself), started shoring up her power as the new, respectable (and much more likable) Town Mother that Mary Sibley once was, and she did all of it at the same time. I don't even think Marburg could have pulled that kind of magic off. I especially thought the part about her using Cotton and Gloriana's child as the next Vessel was particularly brilliant; for a lot of the episode I was wondering why she was keeping the pregnancy now that her marriage was failed and her love for Cotton had turned to wrath.

Aside from the resolution of Mary's (and Tituba's) story I actually really liked this as a finale. It resolved everything in a great, deeply unsettling way, but left enough questions to ruminate over. How does Anne plan to pull off a Grand Rite all alone? Did she learn from Mary that having a coven to work with was more trouble than it was worth? Are we now to assume that we are living in a post-Satan's-return world and don't even know it?

I loved that last little moment of Anne sitting there like the queen that she is, and her glance at us. The child almost murdered by a spell placed on her own doll has now become the most powerful witch in the world, with a perfect storm of a plan set up for all of us.