S07.E04: I Am a Storm

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Frank worries that he and his new family will lose their Home for the Homeless shelter, so he plans a little goodwill for the neighborhood. Meanwhile, Fiona drums up business by throwing a speakeasy party at Patsy's Pies.

Promo:

 

Clips:

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[BunnyBlueBrown]

Does Fiona ever bathe or shower??!!! Haha

[Dee]

This show is gross.

Not in the 'It's Amusing' gross way, but in the 'Seriously GROSS' way.

And the show remains antiblack as all hell.

[abstractstuff]

With regards to Ian and the discussion with the people from the community.. I sympathized. I'm a lesbian, and damn... I have to admit a lot of ignorance when it comes to the issues Ian listened to. I can't say that I called that guy as a "dyke" in 5 seconds, because that would be wrong. That's not who he is.. That segment did make me think a lot though. In the early 00's I knew a few trans folks and it was whatever.. It was to me, just how they were. I  respected whatever they wanted. It's just this whole new charge is happening. And, I am like cool.. But, give even "family" a little wiggle room to try and figure out this whole pronoun stuff. There is a whoooole lot of new information and things being brought into the light. Oh, and yeah. Antiblack as hell! Just waiting for Dominique's dad to turn out that little bitch boy Carl and have him selling rocks to flip for the CPD. 

[sazzat]

I don't know quite how to react to that one.

The good: allowing Vee to register some disapproval of Fiona's treatment of Debbie and Fiona's expectations of her, implying that Fiona's "me first" attitude is more complicated than just Fiona standing up for herself; Lip's new intern is smart enough to ask questions; the reappearance of Youens with a bag of chips; the implication via her advice to Debbie that Svetlana may be less than sincere in her interest in Kev and Vee; Carl finds a direction that suits his talents; the success of the speakeasy idea at the diner and everyone coming together in the last shots.

The bad: Debbie goes trolling for a sugar daddy (wasn't there a whole storyline about Frank showing you how to abuse benefits last season?); Ian makes it all of one episode without romance, and it becomes clear that his biphobia was shoved into the plot as a way to introduce a transgender character (and I am cynical enough to think that Shameless is not doing this out of a desire to tell a story but because they see it as something to get them media attention. At least the character is charming. God knows they have apologizing to do over how they depicted Molly, since they had all the Gallaghers assume that she was a product of a twisted mother and never implied that there was any problem with that conclusion); people introducing themselves not just with names and pronouns but sexualities and ethnic backgrounds like no one does while Ian acts like he was born yesterday in a stiff, overly didactic moment; the stupid plot with the fear about losing the babies when Svetlana's dad was taking them for a giant patriotic photograph (huh?) after the misdirection with him leering at the kids.

The ugly: The dad's gross comment about a toddler with a soft mouth (even on Shameless, NO); the selective memory of the showrunners, making it hard to enjoy what is happening on the show now because it seems like they're starting from scratch every few weeks; what the hell is wrong with the timeline that it's now midsummer and they dropped Frank in the river in, like, March; Frank.

[Dee]

This whole thing where Shameless repeatedly goes out of it's way to make Vee & Kev look like irrational jerks to create sympathy for poor 'misunderstood' Svetlana? Must stop. Immediately.

[BunnyBlueBrown]

Emma R. directed this episode. She did a good job.

Svetlana hinting at her true feelings about the situation leads me to think things aren't going to stay happy between the tri-couple. 

Im ready for them to address the Fiona/V rift. 

The new intern may have been the snitch, and that may be why the Feds showed up again 

[Muffyn]

The scene with Ian's new friend (aka yet another man who sees Ian and immediately wants him) and his group was ridiculous.  Yes, in LGBTQ groups many people will introduce themselves by name and pronouns.  In some discussion groups, people will say more than that such as queer or gay, cisgender or transgender.  However, I have never been to a brunch where people introduce themselves with so much info.  For the record, "cisgender transsexual" makes no damn sense.  And the word transsexual is rarely used now and would not be used by such a group. 

[whiporee]

I was really disappointed in Svetlana. A character I've liked almost since the first time we saw her lost almost everything to me tonight. 

Whatever their faults, Kev and Vee have been pretty good to her. It was her doing to make the relationships sexual; it was her actions that brought her into the fold in the first place. It was their kindness that allowed her to stay in the country. For her to be as angrily dismissive of them -- while it made since from a hooker who's just trying to get her Quiznos -- took away a lot of the affection I had for her. As much as I like the show, Shameless is heavily invested in class politics, but from the wrong angle. People (to quote Hamilton, because that's all that's been listened to around my house for  a year) really can't rise above their station in the Shameless world. The professor telling Lip to learn to scam at the highest levels, Fiona risking Pasty's license (and her own freedom) to sell illegal booze, Debbie (who used to be as smart as Lip) taking advice from the aforementioned hooker-seeking-Quiznos and Vee and Kev back to fetish play (and Vee agreeing with the aformentioned hooker-seeking-Quiznos on giving life advice) -- all of this just is going to show that no one can ever escape their birth. Kind of sucks for a show billed as a comedy. 

One thing I will give them, though -- Shameless does a great job of showing how ridiculous a lot of fetish play turns out to be. A lot of things seem really neat and sexy in the imagination, but in real life, even on very pretty people like Kev and Vee .... it all seems rather silly. 

[Dee]

I wanted Vee to punch Fiona in the neck. Repeatedly.

Fiona immediately turning on Vee because Vee is firmly invested in her own life, after forcing her siblings to put said BFF and her husband above her on their emergency contact lists, really goes to show how one sided Fiona & Vee's "friendship" really is.

I hate to say I called it, but I did. Now that Kev & Vee are focused on their own lives, they've become expendable to the Gallaghers.

[abstractstuff]

Good reading guys.. Thank you..

Fiona is riding a high right now that will end with that damn diner burning down.  

I would be more than happy if the Gallagher clan went away, and the series focused on Vee, Kevin, and Svet, and their adventures. Their storylines are much more fun and exciting and sexy. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Emmy Rossum on directing S7.E4:

[whiporee]

6 hours ago, Dee said:

I wanted Vee to punch Fiona in the neck. Repeatedly.

Fiona immediately turning on Vee because Vee is firmly invested in her own life, after forcing her siblings to put said BFF and her husband above her on their emergency contact lists, really goes to show how one sided Fiona & Vee's "friendship" really is.

I hate to say I called it, but I did. Now that Kev & Vee are focused on their own lives, they've become expendable to the Gallaghers.

Vee was every bit as bitchy as Fiona was. Maybe even more. She came in spouting judgment and accusation, and then turned back to the manipulative hooker when Fiona didn't beg forgiveness. I don't think Fiona was in the right in the conversation, but Vee was throwing out some rather serious charges regarding Debbie and their freindship. And Svet played right into it. 

Let's not forget that Svet told Fiona she should be hooking. Flat out told her. So Fiona might be understandably skeptical of Svet's advice to her sister. And as we jump on the Fiona's-so-mean-to-her-family bandwagon, let's also remember this: Debbie was short, and she didn't kick her out of the house. Fiona had to rescue Debbie from the cops last week. Debbie decided to both get pregnant and keep the damn baby, a baby that Fiona is apparently paying for. So  while the show is suggesting Fiona's being cruel to everyone, she's really just demanding they take responsibility for lives that they've already decided how to live. 

[dangwoodchucks]

I'm so sick of Frank and his crusades.

I'm also sick of Debbie whining to everyone, "What am I supposed to do?". She made her situation happen intentionally, now she needs to figure it out. I'm sure Debbie working for Fiona will work out just fine. Fiona will be watching that baby all the time when Debbie brings her to work because, what is she supposed to do?

Were we supposed to believe those cops in Patsy's wouldn't notice that alcohol was being served? My belief is suspended over the Grand Canyon right now. Sean's being thrown under the bus again because now Fiona says he ran Patsy's into the ground. Why didn't she try to improve it after he left, before she got her epiphany? If this Margo woman is worth $300m, why does she own a dump diner, one that used to specialize in giving jobs to jailbird drug addicts? And regarding Veronica, once again Fiona thinks she should be put before someone's child(dren). Sheesh.

I too thought the new intern was undercover because of all the questions she asked Lip. Did Lip call the Feds, because if I was that guy giving Lip the iPads to keep quiet, that's what I would think. They're all over the place with Lip's professor. First he cares enough to get Lip into rehab, and now he thinks Lip would be best served by learning illegal business practices. I guess the strange thing is that the professor needs to convince Lip to do this.

Anyone notice the awkwardness of Liam, or his portrayer, when Fiona greeted him at the diner? She picked him up and instead of putting his arms around her, or even over her arms, he just kept them straight down at his sides. He kept his legs straight down too.

I saw the boy who plays replacement Debbie in a commercial today. I can't remember what it was for but he and another child delivered a toy R2D2 to a little girl in a hospital.  Found it, it's for Duracell.

Edited October 24, 2016 by dangwoodchucks

[Dee]

2 hours ago, whiporee said:

Vee was every bit as bitchy as Fiona was. Maybe even more. She came in spouting judgment and accusation, and then turned back to the manipulative hooker when Fiona didn't beg forgiveness. I don't think Fiona was in the right in the conversation, but Vee was throwing out some rather serious charges regarding Debbie and their freindship. And Svet played right into it. 

Let's not forget that Svet told Fiona she should be hooking. Flat out told her. So Fiona might be understandably skeptical of Svet's advice to her sister. And as we jump on the Fiona's-so-mean-to-her-family bandwagon, let's also remember this: Debbie was short, and she didn't kick her out of the house. Fiona had to rescue Debbie from the cops last week. Debbie decided to both get pregnant and keep the damn baby, a baby that Fiona is apparently paying for. So  while the show is suggesting Fiona's being cruel to everyone, she's really just demanding they take responsibility for lives that they've already decided how to live. 

It would've been one thing if Fiona had gone to the Alibi just to consult Vee about which dress to wear, but as Vee said, Fiona was only there because she wanted something.

When called out about her selfishness, Fiona acted as if Vee had gone out of her way not to be available to/for bonding sessions only for Vee to remind her that Vee had been making an effort to do just that (efforts which Fiona couldn't be bothered with). After all that, Fiona then proceeded to take some really cheap shots at Vee for Vee daring to prioritize her own family, first, for once.

And given that Fiona expects Kev & Vee to be more responsible for Debbie's welfare than she herself is, that certainly merits them being allowed to assert an opinion about the various going's on at the Gallaghers.

Also, as shady as Svet's motives may be toward Kev/Vee, she wasn't wrong about, nor was she the first to suggest hooking to, Fiona. Fiona is well within her rights not to participate in sex work, but she has no right to judge those who do. Especially when there is good money to be made, for people with a distinct lack of options, like the sister (and niece) Fiona is currently threatening to kick out.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you 100% that Debbie was monumentally stupid to get pregnant & keep the baby, that Deb should be feeling the squeeze from her incredibly shortsighted decision and that it was exceedingly nice of Fiona to rescue Deb's criminal ass last week.

But Fiona is also still Debbie's guardian, which means that even though Fiona may fervently disagree with Debbie's choices, she's remains legally responsible for Deb (and by proxy Harriet) until Deb's eighteenth birthday, which changes everything.

Judge Aufseeser tried to warn Fiona that she'd be giving up a huge swath of her life, but Fiona (being stubborn & shortsighted in her own right) was determined to keep her family together. She doesn't get to absolve herself of that responsibility, now, because they do things she can't control.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Dee

[Tikichick]

7 hours ago, abstractstuff said:

Good reading guys.. Thank you..

Fiona is riding a high right now that will end with that damn diner burning down.  

I would be more than happy if the Gallagher clan went away, and the series focused on Vee, Kevin, and Svet, and their adventures. Their storylines are much more fun and exciting and sexy. 

I think we're potentially heading for a different fire elsewhere.  I think Fiona's diner plan is going to go up in smoke, just not literal smoke.

Could not understand Fiona's attitude about Karl needing to pay to stay since he is a minor in school -- and sure as heck can't understand how she signed up to be guardian and thinks she can hand over responsibility for everyone to Lip just because.  And what was with her moving out of the house she's now the legal owner of?

[Dee]

And why does Ian continue to skate in all of these grand Gallagher 'Passing Of Responsibility' debates?

The past several years, Fiona and Lip have always acted as if they've operated as duo when, prior to Ian joining the army, the oldest Gallagher sibs were a highly functioning trio.

Fiona & Lip know Ian can be counted on to routinely contribute financially and his job is far steadier (provided he tends to his mental health) than either of his older siblings.

Why does he get to go out clubbing all night, with some random stranger, when his presence is needed much more at home?

Edited October 24, 2016 by Dee

[Tatum]

2 hours ago, dangwoodchucks said:

 My belief is suspended over the Grand Canyon right now. Sean's being thrown under the bus again because now Fiona says he ran Patsy's into the ground. Why didn't she try to improve it after he left, before she got her epiphany? If this Margo woman is worth $300m, why does she own a dump diner, one that used to specialize in giving jobs to jailbird drug addicts?

That is the dumbest thing about this show right now, and that is saying something. I can believe Margo would buy some dilapidated real estate in the poor section of town, banking on urban renewal and holding on to it for investment purposes. But real estate investors own real estate. They don't own the shitty diners that occupy the real estate. Generally speaking, operating companies don't own the buildings they operate in. They might own the building under a different name, but for liability reasons, best to keep them separate. It would make a lot more sense if Sean owned the actual Patsy's diner business (as in, the equipment, the inventory, the books, etc) and merely rented the commercial space from Margo. Considering the high failure rate of the local restaurant business, I find it hard to believe a savvy investor would purchase this, and basically hand the reins over to a recovering addict and tell him to run it how he saw fit.

Also, I am reasonably sure (I can't bear to watch the last 2 seasons to confirm), that Sean said he owned that diner. But considering the writers don't care about storylines from the previous episode when writing the latest episode, I guess it's too much to ask they stay consistent season to season.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Tatum

[LuciaMia]

Hmm, okay, the neighborhood doesn't want a homeless shelter in their midst (at least Franks version of one) But bulldoze a perfectly good building instead of just evicting Frank & co.?

[iMonrey]

See, I still don't think we're done with Caleb. I think the whole point to Ian meeting this transgender guy is that he's going to get schooled about sexuality being fluid after a fling with this guy and then go back to Caleb and apologize about being too narrow minded. 

I don't know where they're heading with Fiona but I for one am glad to see her stand up to her family, especially Debbie. I don't know why she went and slept in her office though, she should have kicked Lip to the curb. Lip was basically saying "You take care of Debbie and her baby and I'll get a high paying job and pay the bills." Fiona's been taking care of them for her whole life, she doesn't want to anymore and that's her right. It's shitty of Lip to expect her to take care of Debbie. Debbie's an idiot and I just feel sorry for her baby. But Fiona shouldn't have to take care of Debbie's baby just because Debbie's an idiot.

And the situation with Vee and Kevin is getting out of hand. I didn't really like it when they took Svetlana in for a 3-way marriage but now that Svetlana's father is in the mix, it's too much. Vee and Kevin have every right not to want this guy around their kids. Hell, I wouldn't want Svetlana around my kids if she encourages little girls to prostitute themselves.

[abstractstuff]

It is not Fiona's right as of yet with Carl, Debbie, and Liam. They are still minors. I do get where she's coming from to a point. But, she's being selfish as hell and equally as harsh. I do not give any craps about Lip and his storyline. Svetlana made me sad when she turned to make sure Kevin couldn't hear her, then went on to say to find someone stupid and desperate. They are the only folks I am interested in, and was hoping their weird little situation was love. Hoping Carl sticks with his SWAT dreams and continues hanging with the dad, at least a couple more times. 

[Empress1]

Fiona can feel however she likes about it but she is required by law to care for her minor siblings because she is their legal guardian, a position she fought for. If she wanted to wash her hands of them, she shouldn't have tied herself to them legally.

(i take a different stance on Debbie because I can't stand her, and I feel like having a baby puts you in the "you wanted to be grown, so be grown" category. Not sure how it works legally though.)

[Dee]

The thing that irritates me about Fiona and Debbie, is Fiona is treating Debbie's situation as if Debbie refuses to work.

Debbie has never been a stranger to hard work, and always been willing to earn her keep. She's never been comfortable trolling for sugar daddies because that option has never really been offered to her (as it has her sister and friends).

And despite Debbie's reluctant admission that she wouldn't play by Fiona's rules if she were to work at Patsy's, she proved she wasn't altogether a lost cause, given she followed Fiona's suggestion to apply for the job at the donut place. But with no money to pay for childcare and no responsible adult willing to help her, Debbie has severely limited options.

For Fiona to disregard & judge Debs when Debbie is making an effort the best way she knows how is gross. Especially when one considers how many times Debbie has saved Fiona and the entire family's asses, over the years, with fairly little complaint.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Dee

[comosedice]

I don't feel sorry for Debbie one bit. She insisted on having that kid. She needs to now figure out how to make life work with it. Let Frank babysit since he encouraged her to have the child. She is the most annoying character on the show.

[stagmania]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

See, I still don't think we're done with Caleb. I think the whole point to Ian meeting this transgender guy is that he's going to get schooled about sexuality being fluid after a fling with this guy and then go back to Caleb and apologize about being too narrow minded. 

I'd bet cold hard cash that we're never seeing Caleb again. Trevor is the new guy, plus

Spoiler

they've now officially announced that Mickey is returning to complicate things.

Debbie has definitely been ruined as a character (she was so great in earlier seasons, sigh), but Fiona is still her guardian and responsible for her. Sometimes kids are assholes, that doesn't mean their parents get to disavow or abandon them. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Fiona can feel however she likes about it but she is required by law to care for her minor siblings because she is their legal guardian, a position she fought for. If she wanted to wash her hands of them, she shouldn't have tied herself to them legally.

Technically, Fiona is not "legally obligated" to take care of anyone. She became their legal guardian so she could get them out of foster homes. But . . . if she decided she wanted to kick them out into the street? It's not like the cops are going to come and arrest her. Parents can and do kick their kids out of the house all the time. Parents also make their kids get jobs, especially if they're not in school. Even if they go to school, some kids have to get part-time jobs after school or on weekends. Some call that tough love. If you want to call Fiona an asshole for it, that's your right, but I'm on her side. These brats have enjoyed a free ride for long enough. They're all grown up enough to get jobs and start learning how to support themselves. Except Liam, obviously.

[BunnyBlueBrown]

3 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Technically, Fiona is not "legally obligated" to take care of anyone. She became their legal guardian so she could get them out of foster homes. But . . . if she decided she wanted to kick them out into the street? It's not like the cops are going to come and arrest her. Parents can and do kick their kids out of the house all the time. Parents also make their kids get jobs, especially if they're not in school. Even if they go to school, some kids have to get part-time jobs after school or on weekends. Some call that tough love. If you want to call Fiona an asshole for it, that's your right, but I'm on her side. These brats have enjoyed a free ride for long enough. They're all grown up enough to get jobs and start learning how to support themselves. Except Liam, obviously.

I was just about to write this. Legally Frank and Monica are also responsible for all the children under 18 but of course they do nothing! If a parent has a child who purposely had a baby or a child who was spending funds on unnecessary crap like circumcision, then it really isn't crazy to treat them like the adults they are trying so hard to be.

[stagmania]

19 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

These brats have enjoyed a free ride for long enough. They're all grown up enough to get jobs and start learning how to support themselves. Except Liam, obviously.

And again, this idea flies in the face of the entire history of the show. They've all been contributing all along; Fiona was never doing it alone and has in fact abandoned them once already.

[Chaos Theory]

I liked the three way marriage thing and when the show was in its prime it could have pulled off a compelling story.  Unfortunately the show isn't in its prime.

[Dee]

And it's not as if Debbie couldn't, or wouldn't, contribute if Fiona allowed her to be a stay at home mother.

She's a whiz at cooking and cleaning and her being home would give Fiona someone safe (and free) to babysit Liam (who seems on his way to getting banned from daycare) while she's working.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Dee

[tvsoothesthespirit]

Quote

If you want to call Fiona an asshole for it, that's your right, but I'm on her side.

iMonrey -- I was going to write something similar. In fact, I'm a fully functional member of society, I love my kid, AND I am not the first emergency contact (a good friend is).  Why?  Because I have to work, I work 45 minutes from school, and they can be there more quickly.  It is not the end of the world to be the second (or third) emergency contact on the list. I am, of course, listed as a parent and I handle issues with the school, fundraising, all that stuff. But we're talking emergency contacts and that's not me.

The stuff with Debbie is one of the most true things I think I've seen on this show. It points out exactly why it is so difficult to force kids (especially teenagers) to face up to what they have created. In this case, when you force Debbie to take responsibility, it's Harry that is hurt.

I think it's high time that Ian and Lip took on some of the responsibilities. Lip would also benefit from taking a few more bites of that humble pie.

[Empress1]

1 minute ago, auntl said:

Debbie is a 16 year old single mom. Why isn't she entitled to welfare, food stamps, wic, free child care, etc. 

Women in Debbie's situation are entitled to state benefits.

She has to apply. Why she hasn't, I don't know. And it takes time for that stuff to kick in once she is approved.

Fiona could put them out but it would be shitty, just like Frank and Monica are shitty. As has been pointed out, it's not like the others have never helped. The notion that they've all had it easy while Fiona did everything is false. Lip held the family together during her last "I'm-a do me" phase that landed her in jail after nearly killing their brother. They only live in the house now because Carl gave her the money - a lot of it. Drug money, but still. She really doesn't have shit to say to Ian at this point; however far-fetched it is for him to be a paramedic, he is gainfully employed full-time. He could probably get his own place with some discipline and time. And none of them have had it easy, ever, with the possible exception of Liam because he's too young to know better (he won't remember the time Fiona almost got him killed, or being in foster care - which, actually, was better than his own home).

I started earning money outside the home when I was 11 (mother's helping for the neighbors) and never stopped, so I'm all for kids working. I loved then, and love now, the feeling of making my own money. for sure, the over-18 kids should pay rent somewhere, even if it's home. But for Fiona to act like the kids have never lifted a finger is nuts, and incorrect. It's also nuts for her to act like she's been there for them the whole time - she hasn't. She's fucked up a lot, badly, and they've carried her when she has. They're more of a unit than she's giving them credit for.

It also makes no sense to drop Harry off at Debbie's job interview, sabotaging it. I can't stand Debbie, but that was dumb.

[BunnyBlueBrown]

34 minutes ago, stagmania said:

And again, this idea flies in the face of the entire history of the show. They've all been contributing all along; Fiona was never doing it alone and has in fact abandoned them once already.

Yes someone needs to point out to Fiona that she has dropped the ball before. I think while she was living with Gus and Sean she was still paying bills at the house, but I am referring to her coke days.  

[BunnyBlueBrown]

27 minutes ago, auntl said:

Debbie is a 16 year old single mom. Why isn't she entitled to welfare, food stamps, wic, free child care, etc. 

Women in Debbie's situation are entitled to state benefits.

She can just lie and not put Fiona's income down...because that would probably make her ineligible for food stamps plus with welfare by her being a minor and with Fiona's income she would be ineligible for that too. But...she can definitely get WIC. In my state, the mother must work a certain amount of hours every week to get the free or discounted daycare.

[Empress1]

I remember in the Gus days, she said something like "I'm moving back in for a bit" and I thought "But I don't think you get to move out without taking the minors with you, though." And she didn't make any arrangements for them, IIRC. Sammi happened to be there but Fiona didn't discuss it with her, she just left.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Empress1

[sazzat]

I just read the interview Emmy Rossum did with Variety about directing this episode, and her views on characterization are a little depressing. It's all about how we've never seen Fiona fight for herself before! Fiona learns how to be independent! Go Fiona!

I don't have to think the character of Fiona is a good person, or is always trying to do the right thing, or is behaving righteously, to think that she's an interesting character. But if the show really wants to brush over her past actions and make her attempt to break away from her family a straight up rah-rah FIona moment, that's not interesting. Not because I disapprove of some parts of her actions, but because the show itself isn't considering her past behavior as weighing on the present, and isn't considering the complexity of the situation she's creating now.

Also annoyed that in the interview she characterizes Ian's relationship with Trevor as "all love" in opposition to "war and sex" with Mickey. I know Mickey is far from universally adored around here, and God knows he's problematic, but what kind of mass reeducation did they undertake on the Shameless set re: the Ian/Mickey relationship? What exactly went down with Noel Fisher leaving that the writers went from gushing over the relationship/justifying physical altercations to characterizing it as a loveless power struggle? And this only strengthens my fear that they're bringing Mickey back in the same "please watch us again because your favorite character is showing up" ploy that they used for Steve, when he came back from the dead and they built up a bunch of tension so he could...hang around for a few episodes and get rejected. He was already gone, they'd already broken up, and his return did nothing for either the characters or the plot.

Edited October 24, 2016 by sazzat

[abstractstuff]

Yeah, I think they take everyone who lives in the household incomes into account. But, I don't know about benefits for children. I know you have to apply, but, I don't think it's that hard to get approved. Too many people make their living that way. It's amazing how artfully people work the system and pop out child after child, but, that's a whole nother topic. 

[BunnyBlueBrown]

27 minutes ago, auntl said:

I doubt that a manager in a diner's salary to cover 4 minors, one adult, and a house would disqualify Debbie for benefits.

Would the state consider Ian's salary too? If Ian being in the house disqualifies Debbie for benefits, then he would have to leave or hide the fact that he's living there. Harry is only an infant. Her safety would naturally be very important to all of them.

Technically she would have to put all of the working adults income because they all help her, but she can easily lie and say no one helps her except for like $50 a month.

[Empress1]

35 minutes ago, auntl said:

I doubt that a manager in a diner's salary to cover 4 minors, one adult, and a house would disqualify Debbie for benefits.

Would the state consider Ian's salary too? If Ian being in the house disqualifies Debbie for benefits, then he would have to leave or hide the fact that he's living there. Harry is only an infant. Her safety would naturally be very important to all of them.

I hate when the writers lose sight of the premise of the show. The Gallaghers act as one and do what they have to do. That is the Gallaghers only charm.

Yeah, I was thinking that Fiona might still qualify for benefits even while working (although I don't think she has a mortgage). She can't make much.

[NorthstarATL]

I liked that they allowed Fiona a successful business venture, even if it was illegal (my Grandparents had a speakeasy; I used to love going down there as a kid and hearing about the stories when it was up and running!), and even if it's only temporary. I hate to see the kids at odds. There's no reason for it other than drama. Fiona and Lip both have potential as earners for themselves and the family, but they have different skill sets, and should be supportive of each other. Carl wants to go to military school; he should be looking into Ian mentoring him through that! Debbie, as someone pointed out above, is GOOD at day care/stay-at-home stuff! She could run a decent business from home, and even work a schedule out with Kev/Vee/Svet, and, of course, help care for Liam. Instead, we have drama for drama's sake.

[stagmania]

1 hour ago, DOBABYR said:

Yes someone needs to point out to Fiona that she has dropped the ball before. I think while she was living with Gus and Sean she was still paying bills at the house, but I am referring to her coke days.  

She wasn't paying the bills when she moved in with Gus. There was a scene where she came back and she had forgotten it was school time, and then Debbie told her they had no food or water. She just bailed on them with no warning and left them to fend for themselves. 

54 minutes ago, sazzat said:

Also annoyed that in the interview she characterizes Ian's relationship with Trevor as "all love" in opposition to "war and sex" with Mickey. I know Mickey is far from universally adored around here, and God knows he's problematic, but what kind of mass reeducation did they undertake on the Shameless set re: the Ian/Mickey relationship? What exactly went down with Noel Fisher leaving that the writers went from gushing over the relationship/justifying physical altercations to characterizing it as a loveless power struggle? And this only strengthens my fear that they're bringing Mickey back in the same "please watch us again because your favorite character is showing up" ploy that they used for Steve, when he came back from the dead and they built up a bunch of tension so he could...hang around for a few episodes and get rejected. He was already gone, they'd already broken up, and his return did nothing for either the characters or the plot.

I think you hit the nail on the head: re what we're in store for with Mickey's return. They've been retconning the hell out of that relationship since Noel Fisher quit, and I suspect he's only back to put the final nail in the coffin. 

[Dee]

Sammi was mainly footing the bills while Fiona was dithering between Gus & Sean.

That became a major point of contention for Sammi after Carl (and Frank) screwed her over.

Fiona was more than happy to let her sister rule the roost until she had to acknowledge her in any substantive way.

[Tatum]

14 hours ago, Dee said:

Sammi was mainly footing the bills while Fiona was dithering between Gus & Sean.

That became a major point of contention for Sammi after Carl (and Frank) screwed her over.

Fiona was more than happy to let her sister rule the roost until she had to acknowledge her in any substantive way.

Agreed. On top of that, did Fiona even have a job in the first season? I am pretty sure most of her financial contributions to the squirrel fund in S1 came via Jimmy trying to impress Fiona by buying her groceries and appliances. Lip and Ian both worked throughout high school and regularly contributed to the bottom line.

What annoys me about Fiona isn't so much asking Lip and Ian to pay a set amount of rent. If, while they have been negotiating mental illness and addiction, giving Fiona money fell by the wayside, I think she's fine to remind them that they are all working adults, and it shouldn't all fall to her just because she's a few years older. But they should come up with a fair plan together. It isn't costing Fiona $2K a month (roughly) to pay the household bills. Property taxes are probably $200 a month, max. Utilities, maybe another $300-400, if they have cable and internet. Groceries can get expensive, but the Gallaghers eat eggs, pancakes, and spaghetti. Those are all cheap. If Fiona is paying more than $100 a week in groceries, she's doing it wrong.  By my count, maybe the total outgoing bills are $1,000-$1,200 a month. Fiona is collecting more than that each month from her sibs, and that doesn't even take into account her own share.  She's basically making a profit off them, and has no expenses coming out of her own pocket (likely applying that extra money toward her investment fund).

This is totally cool if you're a landlord- you can charge a FMV on rent, and if it means your own expenses are covered plus extra, well that's your business. But Fiona only has the house because Carl gave her the money (which was obtained via illegal means). Carl gave it to her so they could have a place to stay together, and now she's using it as leverage to make a buck off her siblings. Not cool, in my opinion.

 

Switching gears, I don't understand Svetlana at all, or her impression that she's really pulling a fast one on Kev. When she said, I have someone to take care of my kid for free, and I have a job, I was like, duh. You're better at managing the bar than Kev is. He's good with kids. Therefore, you work the bar, make more money for Kev, and you get a reliable babysitter each day. That's what we call a mutually beneficial arrangement. Also what we call using your strengths for maximum efficiency. Not really a scam.

[whiporee]

She told Debbie to find someone simple-minded and desperate, or something to that effect, then sideways glanced toward Kev after he left.  I think the implication was pretty clear as to how she thinks if Kev and Vee. 

[Tatum]

33 minutes ago, whiporee said:

She told Debbie to find someone simple-minded and desperate, or something to that effect, then sideways glanced toward Kev after he left.  I think the implication was pretty clear as to how she thinks if Kev and Vee. 

I get that Svet thinks she's running a scam, but I don't really see how she is. She's making more money for Kev and Vee, they are reciprocating by watching her child. Quid pro quo. I mean, if it makes her feel better and more empowered to think she's taking advantage of them, fine, but she's really not.

 

ETA:

Unless this is all leading up to Svet cooking the books and embezzling money from the Alibi. But Vee would have to really not be paying attention since she works with Svet all day and must have some general idea of what the daily revenues and expenses would be.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Tatum

[CarolMK]

I liked seeing Carl hanging out with Dominique's dad. If Frank had been like he is, Carl would probably be in military school now. Hope he gets to go.

Did I miss something- wasn't Deb's baby named Franny (for Frank), so when did it get switched to Harry (Harriet?).

I hate seeing Vee and Fiona not being friends after all of this time. Hopefully the families can become close again. I think the Svetlana situation is going to eventually implode.

[stagmania]

3 hours ago, Tatum said:

Agreed. On top of that, did Fiona even have a job in the first season? I am pretty sure most of her financial contributions to the squirrel fund in S1 came via Jimmy trying to impress Fiona by buying her groceries and appliances. Lip and Ian both worked throughout high school and regularly contributed to the bottom line.

She worked a lot of odd jobs in the first three seasons, hustling like crazy before finally landing the cup job in season 4 (and blowing it). She definitely worked hard and did a lot for her family. I just take issue with the show trying to pretend she did it alone and the rest of the Gallagher kids are free-loaders.

1 hour ago, Tatum said:

I get that Svet thinks she's running a scam, but I don't really see how she is. She's making more money for Kev and Vee, they are reciprocating by watching her child. Quid pro quo. I mean, if it makes her feel better and more empowered to think she's taking advantage of them, fine, but she's really not.

 

ETA:

Unless this is all leading up to Svet cooking the books and embezzling money from the Alibi. But Vee would have to really not be paying attention since she works with Svet all day and must have some general idea of what the daily revenues and expenses would be.

I think the point is supposed to be that she doesn't have sincere feelings for Kev and Vee, but they think she does. She's just using sex to leverage a better position for herself and her kid.

[Dee]

5 minutes ago, CarolMK said:

Did I miss something- wasn't Deb's baby named Franny (for Frank), so when did it get switched to Harry (Harriet?).

Harriet is Franny's middle name.

Debbie started referring to Franny by it when she washed her hands of Frank a couple of episodes ago.

[dangwoodchucks]

Why is the issue with Frank and the house that it's supposed to be a homeless shelter? What about the fact that they're squatting in someone's house? Seems like the neighbors would be all over that rather than trying to close a "homeless shelter" which makes Frank look sympathetic to the media and the public. I loved new Lip sweeping the grass to clean it, he doesn't quite have the intelligence of the original Lip does he?

The brief shot from the perspective of Kevin's saddle was hilarious.

I know timelines and things aren't important to the writers of Shameless, but the whole party and afterwards made no sense to me. Fiona wanted to attract people coming from the clubs so I figure they maybe didn't start partying at Patsy's until 1 or 2am. It goes on for a while and when they're cleaning and Debbie walks in it might be somewhere between 3 & 5am, right? So Debbie is finishing up with her "date" between 3 & 5am and has her baby in tow? That makes no sense. The entitlement is strong in that one too, who sits down in front of someone's plate of food and just starts eating it? I also found it strange that Ian would be asking his teenaged sister, who has an infant, if she had some sexy times.

[Tatum]

3 minutes ago, stagmania said:

She worked a lot of odd jobs in the first three seasons, hustling like crazy before finally landing the cup job in season 4 (and blowing it). She definitely worked hard and did a lot for her family. I just take issue with the show trying to pretend she did it alone and the rest of the Gallagher kids are free-loaders.

I think the point is supposed to be that she doesn't have sincere feelings for Kev and Vee, but they think she does. She's just using sex to leverage a better position for herself and her kid.

I know she worked a lot in S2 and S3- the bar, that job she had shoveling septic systems, some kind of tax prep job- but I honestly can't remember her working in Season 1. What did she do?

Re: Svet, here is what I think is weird. Svet seems a lot more dismissive and contemptuous towards Kevin than she is towards Vee. But really, in this case, Kev is the one who sees the arrangement for what it is- something that works for now. Kev likes the threeways and seems like he prefers taking care of the kids vs. working the bar. I don't see that he has any emotional investment in Svetlana, and in some ways, might prefer having Vee to himself again.

Vee, on the other hand, seems more attached to Svetlana and like she would be more hurt if things went sideways. But I don't see Kev as someone who is being taken by Svet, even if he in general is not that smart.