S12.E03: Taboo

[Droogie]

6 hours ago, smoker said:

 

Smoker, this weird quote box is here bc I was trying to quote where you said something to the effect that Spencer is now essentially an amalgam of old Spencer and MGG, and I was in agreement, times eleventy.  I think it must be hard to sound out and act a character that has had almost no exposition or definition for the past 6+ seasons.  But my quote thingy messed up and now I can't delete it.  I want so badly for MGG to desert this empty shell of a show, post haste.  Loyalty, shmoyalty.  You're wasting the prime of your talented life.  Get the heck out.

That Reid is my favorite is no secret, so I'm always disappointed (I've racked up years of disappointment at this point, as you can imagine) when he isn't used to his fullest potential.  Look at any episode from the first four/five seasons and it will be obvious what I mean.  But I'm beating a dead horse.  I watch now for the pretty.

i agree with everyone about the cute dog, the stilted line delivery, etc. Looks like the ratings were ok, though.  Maybe they were correct about last week (Just wasn't into the whole JJ-centric idea, with good ole Virg at the helm, so I forewent) and the poor ratings attributable to the storm/baseball.  I love and miss Hotch, feel gypped by his erasure, etc.  But maybe the #NoHotchNoWatch-ers are being a wee bit premature in their celebrations.  I think the show will continue to plug along, at least for the season, appealing to... gosh, I dunno, but obviously viewers with low expectations, plus those of us who are bound by something (history?  Loyalty?  Masochism?). But this episode was bad, y'all.  Ridiculously so, IMHO.  If something doesn't change, I don't think I can watch many more, even for the lovely Spencer Reid.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Droogie

[Bookish Jen]

1 minute ago, Old Dog said:

"We" are not a collective - we all have our individual views of things.

Entertainment and pop culture have always been subjective. One person's Mr. Scratch could be another person's 200, and vice versa.

I was not a fan of this episode at all, and my attitude towards it can best summed up like this:

However, Taboo did have a few charms, most notably, Reid's lilac livery, donuts, Roxy and the care Alvez puts into her breakfast.

Hmm, fashion, food and furbabies? Bookish Jen starts humming, "These are a few of my favorite things."

[Willowy]

I thought you said it was better than last week's for you? (for Reidfan) Or am I mistaken?

I liked it okay, just didn't love it. Wasn't the worst by any means, but it was no catastrophe. Sorry not sorry because I thought there was still plenty to enjoy.

ETA "for Reidfan" for clarity.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Franky

[zannej]

Good point about them not interviewing the other boy. Also, since they determined work was being done on all of the victim's homes/areas, why didn't they go to the construction sites and talk to the workers? They left way too much up to Garcia. And really, the info they wanted would probably not have been available on computer, but they just ignore that and have Garcia's magic computer fix things. Still think it was "meh". It didn't enrage me like some episodes that were just infuriatingly bad.

Fun fact about concrete- the when water is added to cement it causes a chemical reaction that creates heat. It can actually get quite hot while curing. Meanwhile, one of my cats is climbing on me and headbutting my hands as I'm trying to type this.

I call BS on the bodies being in such good condition visibly after being in concrete.

As an aside, did they ever find the body of the 3rd woman? I can't remember.

Edited October 13, 2016 by zannej

[JMO]

I could only stay awake through the opening credits last night, so I’ve just watched it through. 

Waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy  too much unsub.  Waaaayyyyyyy too much.  Which is what happened in Karen Maser’s other episodes as well (Drive and Til Death Do Us Part).  This one wasn't as bad as the others, but she is definitely not my favorite writer. 

The opening scene with the team was as stilted and trite as everyone has mentioned, and I’m thinking that might have been the scene most affected by the unexpected absence of TG.  After that, things mostly improved, and I thought PB settled back into her role for the most part.

I do like Luke Alvez.  I think he’s been the most successfully introduced new character of all of them, with just enough energy and personality to be engaging without being overbearing.  I like the dog, but don’t know why he has one, with all of the travel he does.  Someone, somewhere (? here) posited that the dog may have come back from Iraq with him, which seems appropriate.  I actually appreciated that we got some exposition on him during the stakeout, rather than as a separate episode or prolonged backstory.  It’s the kind of interweaving of personal and professional that I think worked in the early years of the show.

Reid was lovely in lilac, but I actually prefer him in blue and gray.  And, especially, that checked shirt.  He was on screen enough, and contributed enough to the unraveling of the case, that the Reid-meter moved.  A little.  Not enough.

Early in the episode, when Garcia had too many names to handle, I was hopeful that a little realism had been injected into her role.  And then her computer did the impossible, again.  I did not enjoy her behaviors during the case introduction, nor at the end.

I got excited last week, when they got 'croup' right.  And then we got this trans-nasal chlorine lobotomy thing this week.  Sigh.

Overall, for me, the team aspects were good, but the huge amount of time devoted to the unsub seriously detracted from my enjoyment of the episode.  I did not miss Tara at all.  I didn’t miss Hotch in this episode, but I think that’s because there was too little team time for it to be noticeable.

[smoker]

1 hour ago, Droogie said:

Smoker, this weird quote box is here bc I was trying to quote where you said something to the effect that Spencer is now essentially an amalgam of old Spencer and MGG, and I was in agreement, times eleventy.  I think it must be hard to sound out and act a character that has had almost no exposition or definition for the past 6+ seasons.  But my quote thingy messed up and now I can't delete it.  I want so badly for MGG to desert this empty shell of a show, post haste.  Loyalty, shmoyalty.  You're wasting the prime of your talented life.  Get the heck out.

That Reid is my favorite is no secret, so I'm always disappointed (I've racked up years of disappointment at this point, as you can imagine) when he isn't used to his fullest potential.  Look at any episode from the first four/five seasons and it will be obvious what I mean.  But I'm beating a dead horse.  I watch now for the pretty.

i agree with everyone about the cute dog, the stilted line delivery, etc. Looks like the ratings were ok, though.  Maybe they were correct about last week (Just wasn't into the whole JJ-centric idea, with good ole Virg at the helm, so I forewent) and the poor ratings attributable to the storm/baseball.  I love and miss Hotch, feel gypped by his erasure, etc.  But maybe the #NoHotchNoWatch-ers are being a wee bit premature in their celebrations.  I think the show will continue to plug along, at least for the season, appealing to... gosh, I dunno, but obviously viewers with low expectations, plus those of us who are bound by something (history?  Loyalty?  Masochism?). But this episode was bad, y'all.  Ridiculously so, IMHO.  If something doesn't change, I don't think I can watch many more, even for the lovely Spencer Reid.

Don't worry Droogie,  I've had to "fight" to get rid of quote boxes sometimes xP

I want to add that I think the same of every character (yes, including Hotch). Aside of the physicality of some characters (Morgan, JJ, etc.), they have become exchangeable most of the time, as someone else pointed out. I imagine what Elle would sound if she came back and it's a sad picture.

About the ratings, I've already shared my opinion, but I can't help myself so... Ratings have been lower every season. My educated guess is that they will follow that tendency when everything normalizes after all the changes. And not because of Hotch, but because of the exchangeable characters (old and new) and the same poor and repetitive writing. 

 

*I'm sorry for the bad grammar, I know I make a lot of mistakes and I usually try to correct myself, but I've run out of ideas to improve this comment. I hope I am saying what I want to say because I am not very satisfied with it.

[SSAHotchner]

6 hours ago, Old Dog said:

I just read today that Jack Nicholson found out that his sister was really his mother when he was 37 years old. It probably happens a lot more than you would think.

Bobby Darin, too. If any of you are old enough to remember him. Raised by his grandma who he thought was his mother until after she died and his sister told him the truth. 

[JMO]

4 minutes ago, SSAHotchner said:

Bobby Darin, too. If any of you are old enough to remember him. Raised by his grandma who he thought was his mother until after she died and his sister told him the truth. 

I work with a population that sees quite a number of teen pregnancies.  The younger the teen mother, the more likely this is to happen.  Which makes for some interesting discussions later in life.  But, so far, we've not had to deal with anyone encased in concrete.

[MCatry]

Wow.

Once the only show I used to watch live, now I totally forgot about it.

And the saddest thing is that after reading your appreciations on this episode, it seems I would waste nearly an hour if I decide to sit and watch this. After all, it seems I already saw all that was worthy: the dog (an obvious replication on Morgan's profile plus another obvious tool to make the newbie more likeable). 

Oh well...

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, smoker said:

*I'm sorry for the bad grammar, I know I make a lot of mistakes and I usually try to correct myself, but I've run out of ideas to improve this comment. I hope I am saying what I want to say because I am not very satisfied with it.

Your grammar was fine in this post!!! No need to apologize for it. Besides, most native English speakers don't have perfect grammar either. I wouldn't have known you're not a native speaker based on that post :)

2 hours ago, Franky said:

Making an observation, gauging the timbre of the discussion, averaging etc... . Why does everyone get so worked up whenever I dare post? I don't see everyone else having to explain their every word.

Well, misunderstandings are more common in a place like this than talking in person. You lose all of the non-verbals. And (speaking for myself) it's nothing personal - often I don't pay much attention to who is posting until after I've read the post, and it doesn't affect how I decide to respond to someone. With this specific post, I think the issue was that it wasn't clear what your point was, and sounded (to me, at least) like you were criticizing every person on this board for apparently changing their opinions, when many people hadn't even had the chance to post yet. It might have been a complete misunderstanding, but imo it's really important for the "give and take" that someone mentioned earlier, in order to avoid or clear up any misunderstandings. The post may not have been intended that way, but if that's the way it's received, then the responses won't be positive.

 

On the topic of mothers-being-grandmothers, I think it's more common than we think. I wonder how many people simply don't know. I have to admit, I've often wondered about that in my own family. It's pretty hard to wrap my mind around sometimes.

In the unsub's case, it really didn't make much sense since the guy was clearly unstable before he found out about his sister/mother. If she hadn't said anything, and had just rejected his advances on the grounds of them being "siblings", there's no way he would have taken that well.  But really, then he wouldn't have been asking his mother/grandmother about that and he just never would have known. There would have been no reason to.

If they wanted to show how this revelation could trigger someone to kill single mothers, I don't think they did a good job of it. It could have been interesting to see someone struggle with an identity crisis, though.

[rainsmom]

8 hours ago, ReidFan said:

2. The dog is gorgeous, well trained and probably my second favourite cast member after MGG. I thought she (he?) was a German Shepherd but no, she/he is a Belgian Malinois, which makes complete sense because those dogs are fantastic in law enforcement/military training.

Close! Belgian Tervuren. The Malinois has a short coat. You typically see more Mals in protection work (police, military, etc) than Tervs, but they're pretty closely related.

Roxy was gorgeous, and I agree -- one of my favorite members of the cast.

I have to admit, even though I watched last week, I had forgotten Luke existed and didn't even recognize him in his opening scene. Oh well, at least his dog is memorable.

[ReidFan]

I thought she was a German Shepherd.  It's the CBS site that said she was a Malinois; I was just relating what they said.  

[The Wild Sow]

Oh, Roxy's beautiful!  I thought Malinois, but yeah, too long of a coat.  I wasn't thinking she could be a Belgian Shepherd because they're usually all black (I had a gorgeous Belgian about 30 years ago - miss you, Tasha!)  But the Tervuren is considered a variety of Belgian (as is the Malinois.)

[thewhiteowl]

Topic, please. In this case the topic is the episode. Not, for example, other poster's opinions about the episode or how you think they feel about your own. Discuss how you feel about the episode and leave others to do the same. Anything else is off topic and liable to disappear. Thanks!

[Morrigan2575]

I really enjoyed this episode.  I love Prentis so it was great to see her back. I especially loved the girl bonding night at the end.

[Mom x 3]

I'm glad to see Bear from Person of Interest has been able to find work elsewhere.  *grin*

[preeya]

On Thursday, October 13, 2016 at 10:32 AM, Old Dog said:

I just read today that Jack Nicholson found out that his sister was really his mother when he was 37 years old. It probably happens a lot more than you would think.

That is the same story as Walden Robert Cassotto aka Bobby Darin.

Read it here:  http://bit.ly/2dWjnv6

[normasm]

I thought i remembered that about Bobby Darin. 

[Mysteyman]

My least favorite episode of the season so far.

But  I love a good Halloween episode, so,

Bring it ON!

Edited October 17, 2016 by Mysteyman

[zannej]

I forgot to mention that the title of the episode made me think of a rather bawdy song where the lyrics started with "Three German officers crossed the Rhine. Tabboo. Tabboo." We substituted some of the more crass words with "noun" and "verb" so we were able to sing it in the car on long trips without making Mom flip her lid. So, every time I see the topic title, I start humming the song to myself. LOL.

[torqy]

On 10/14/2016 at 8:50 PM, HospiceDoc said:

I'm glad to see Bear from Person of Interest has been able to find work elsewhere.  *grin*

Wonder if Roxy responds to commands in Dutch?

It's been a while since I've seen Sherilyn Fenn, and I confess I was taken out of the episode many times because she looked remarkably like a former coworker (who happens to be 15 years older!)

Nice to see Paget again.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

On 10/12/2016 at 11:41 PM, zannej said:

I do like the dynamic with Prentiss and Alvez (although I hope they don't try to make it romantic). I cringed a little at Alvez not wanting her to say anything about what regiment he was in. That would be in his personnel file anyway.

I want to see Prentiss and Reid interact more-- partially because Paget and Matthew are such good friends.

Please. God. This.

Yes.  I thought the earlier seasons interactions between Reid & Prentiss were some of the best of the series.

On 10/12/2016 at 11:58 PM, ForeverAlone said:

And Penelope still seems to act like a blushing teen, who wants to screw Luke but can't work up the guts to ask him for sex. That is just so pathetic (unless that is really where they are headed with these two, which I dearly hope is NOT the endgame here), and the writers really need to let that one go, because it doesn't do well for building up the idea of Penelope as a capable, professional woman. 

If I didn't know better, I'd think this is exactly where they were trying to take this Garcia & Alvez thing.  Every personal interaction between them (at least in eps 1 & 3), she was a tongue-tied blushing school girl and while he didn't exactly flirt, he certainly wasn't awkward or put off by her demeanor.  Then they had to go there with the sexual innuendo faux pas right off the bat [ie, fingering techniques] and her embarrassingly rushing a clarification for what she said.   It was like watching an early-season Arrow episode, Felicity around Oliver.  Somebody get me a bucket, I feel ill.

On 10/13/2016 at 8:53 AM, amensisterfriend said:

I'm a definite fan of Luke and his incredibly adorable dog. I agree with whoever wondered if they were trying to set the stage for an Emily/Luke romance or even just vaguely suggested romance down the road, and maybe they are, but then they had Emily and Rossi exchange awkward lines about how well "Mark" is treating Emily and how happy they are. Though maybe Mark will disappear now that Emily is going to be back in the US full time. Or maybe they're trying to hint at a possible Luke/Garcia thing instead. Personally, I'm hoping they don't go in either direction, but that's just me :) 

I haven't watched every last single episode of CM, but from the number I have seen, other than the "supposed date" where Reid & JJ went to a Redskins game (way back in very early S1), there has never been any inter-team dating, has there?  I would overall prefer it stay that way always - even if I do have personal ships when it comes to my own mind-fanon and fanfics, etc - but if inter-team romance does happen, I would much rather see a Prentiss/Reid pairing than Prentiss/Alvez.

On 10/13/2016 at 9:01 AM, Bookish Jen said:

The Bad?

The “done-to-death” scene where Emily is talking about Luke, and wouldn’t you know it! He’s right behind her.

Penelope’s infantile behavior-the kitty ears, acting like a stupid tween around Luke who probably doesn’t give a rat’s ass about how much liquor she imbibes.

Ugh, yes.  And made way more awkward than was needed.

I thought she was supposed to not like Luke (initially) because he isn't Morgan, and getting over Morgan's leaving, but I'm getting more of a vibe that if LA asked her too she'd drop her panties faster than she can hack.

On 10/13/2016 at 0:18 PM, zannej said:

I didn't mind the bit where Emily was profiling Luke and he was right behind her, but it should have ended about right there. It wasn't necessary to have Prentiss babble on awkwardly.

They way overdid it.  Instead of acting just a little embarrassed for being caught profiling a teammate, she came off as a hormonal teenager; "OMG, he's so hot and I made a big fool of myself in front of him, and now he'll probably never like me that way!".

Between that, and Garcia acting the same way, Alvez is made out to be a heartthrob that all the non-firmly attached females become embarrassingly awkward and, *ahem* 'moist', when he's around.  I will lose interest (even faster) with CM as a whole if this keeps up for much longer.

[ReidFan]

47 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

 

Between that, and Garcia acting the same way, Alvez is made out to be a heartthrob that all the non-firmly attached females become embarrassingly awkward and, *ahem* 'moist', when he's around.  

it's the WRONG guy too. That would be--and is--Spencer, not Luke.

[Willowy]

Funny, I didn't get anything like that from either Pen or Prentiss. I felt Penelope is just struggling because it's her natural inclination to like people and she would feel disloyal to Morgan if she welcomed Luke too easily. I thought the inappropriate sexual references were to illustrate that she WOULDN'T be going there at all, like she had with Derek for years. 

Emily was just embarrassed at being caught (during the 'behind me' trope), and as far as her stake out with Alvez, I thought it was a good way for new co-workers to engage without crossing lines. 

I didn't see either of them as supposed to be "moist" (ew) for Luke. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I'm not saying they actually were that (ew), just that the scenes played out that way from where I was sitting.  It could have been (and most likely was) just how you described, but they could have done a lot better job both in script form and on-screen to articulate such things.   JMO and MMV

Edited October 27, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[zannej]

15 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Please. God. This.

Yes.  I thought the earlier seasons interactions between Reid & Prentiss were some of the best of the series.

If I didn't know better, I'd think this is exactly where they were trying to take this Garcia & Alvez thing.  Every personal interaction between them (at least in eps 1 & 3), she was a tongue-tied blushing school girl and while he didn't exactly flirt, he certainly wasn't awkward or put off by her demeanor.  Then they had to go there with the sexual innuendo faux pas right off the bat [ie, fingering techniques] and her embarrassingly rushing a clarification for what she said.   It was like watching an early-season Arrow episode, Felicity around Oliver.  Somebody get me a bucket, I feel ill.

When I first saw Felicity, I thought she reminded me of Garcia. But I actually like Felicity better. Despite being a nervous chatterer, she generally doesn't act and dress like a child. I was especially amused when Felicity and Ray were together and both of them were doing the awkward babbling. LOL.

[Paul TV show lover]

Well I read all the comments on this episode and didn't see anyone state this: I found it interesting how Luke tells Agent Prentiss not to share that he was in the 75th Rangers Regiment in Iraq with any of their other coworkers so that intrigued me & I decided to google it. No one has posted here in 2 years however I'm catching up where I left off, but I clicked on 2 links that came up when I googled "75th Rangers Regiment Army Iraq" the first one I clicked on led me to what I'm about to show you and the second one mentioned criminal minds & brought me here so I decided to create an account. I also love the historical quotes at the beginning & end of every episode, the end of this one was: "3 things cannot long remain hidden: the sun, the moon, the the truth" -Buddha

 

But this is what I found out about Luke's army regiment in Iraq:

 

washingtonpost.com

Army Rangers Accused of Abusing Detainees

The Associated Press
Monday, November 7, 2005; 3:12 PM

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Five U.S. members of an elite Army unit have been charged with kicking and punching detainees in Iraq, the military said Monday.

The charges were issued Saturday against five soldiers from the 75th Ranger Regiment in connection with a Sept. 7 incident "in which three detainees were allegedly punched and kicked while awaiting movement to a detention facility," the U.S. military said in a statement.

The military said officials had immediately launched an investigation after discovering the abuse allegations, leading to the charges. Names and ranks of the five soldiers were not released and the statement gave no further details.

Allegations of prisoner abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad gained international notoriety in 2004 after a number of U.S. military personnel were charged with humiliating and assaulting detainees at the facility. Nine Army reservists were convicted in the scandal.

The announcement came as President Bush vigorously defended U.S. interrogation practices in the war on terror and lobbied against a congressional drive to outlaw torture during a visit to Panama.

© 2005 The Associated Press