S03.E05: Twenty-Two

[Tara Ariano]

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Edgar tries to relieve his PTSD.

[Ottis]

I guess we changed out the writer from last season with depression in his/her family with one who has a personal connection to PTSD. Look, this episode was done well, and Edgar acted the heck out of it, but it would be like Gilligan's Island doing a show on rape. These PSAs don't work for me in this show, and I was disappointed that it went there. The only lesson I learned was that Gretchen and gang are as tonally deaf to Edgar's issue as Edgar's issue is to this show.

[Irlandesa]

I liked it.  It was really well done and interesting to see things from Edgar's perspective.

But if I'm being honest, I actually came away with a super shallow thought.  Damn Edgar was hot when he was dancing at the beginning.  I mean dayum.

I also really liked the silent film at the end.  Nice Charlie Chaplin shuffle.  And it was such a teen dude's POV short film. 

Edited September 29, 2016 by Irlandesa

[Adultosaurus]

I just hate unattractive comb-over Jimmy and his "WOT???" dialogue.  Can we just have him leave somehow?

[AlliMo]

23 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I liked it.  It was really well done and interesting to see things from Edgar's perspective.

But if I'm being honest, I actually came away with a super shallow thought.  Damn Edgar was hot when he was dancing at the beginning.  I mean dayum.

Oh, you were not the only one, believe me.  I VERY much appreciated it.

I really don't have an issue with the show not being a non-stop laugh riot. Its always been about the comedy derived from tragedy and dysfunction. If all I wanted was mindless yucks, lord knows I have plenty of other, less well written and acted options.

[Irlandesa]

3 minutes ago, AlliMo said:

I really don't have an issue with the show not being a non-stop laugh riot. Its always been about the comedy derived from tragedy and dysfunction. If all I wanted was mindless yucks, lord knows I have plenty of other, less well written and acted options.

And there are even well written non-stop yuk fests that I appreciate.  I think I didn't mind this episode so much is I feel like this season overall is pretty funny.  Last season felt too heavy on the dark with not enough funny.

[Jade Foxx]

Just wow. 

Always felt Edgar was the heart and soul of this show. 

Still processing...oh and I hated Jimmy and Gretch SO HARD in this one.

[AlliMo]

I really liked it, and that little speech that the tow truck driver gave may have been one of the finest bits of writing I've seen this year.

[whiporee]

I don't know what that was, other than it was good. 

I don't know, however, how we go back to the show that was, after seeing Edgar almost rape Dorothy and seeing what's in his mind when Jimmy and Gretchen are being assholes. Shit tonight was too real, too close, to have him going back to being the doormat the show requires him to be, and I don't know how we have any sympathy towards the other three after seeing what he goes through. 

 

Very good -- harrowing 39 minutes. Just don't know where they go from here. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I agree that Edgar is really the heart and soul of the show (because he has the biggest heart and the kindest soul of the four main characters). One of the things that this episode achieved was reminding us that Jimmy and Gretchen really are the worst. Normally we get to see things from their perspective and it's often funny when they're being jerks to each other or to other people, but seeing how oblivious they are to Edgar's pain, especially when he clearly loves them both and tries to take such good care of them, was painful.

I know some people who have struggled with whether to stay on their medication for various reasons. I'm glad that Edgar explained to the VA lady that despite eleven medications, all they do is turn the volume down. I've heard similar complaints about medication making people feel that way. But I wonder how much that bothered him before the meds affected his sex life with Dorothy. Yes, sex is an important part of a relationship, but it shouldn't take priority over your general well-being to the point where you are paranoid about garbage bags on the side of the freeway and freaking out over noises like water running in the sink.

Although I thought it was a little too convenient that the tow truck driver was a fellow vet who was full of wisdom, I'll take it because I just wanted someone, anyone, to be there for Edgar emotionally.

I freaked out when Edgar stuck his head out of the sunroof of his car so I was hilariously relieved that his car was on the tow truck!

[Ottis]

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I really don't have an issue with the show not being a non-stop laugh riot. Its always been about the comedy derived from tragedy and dysfunction. If all I wanted was mindless yucks, lord knows I have plenty of other, less well written and acted options.

Don't think anyone suggested this should be a new version of King of Queens. This episode was a drama. Period. I don't think there was even a laugh, unless you count dark humor like Edgar sneaking up on what he thought was a crime in progress and realizing it was the paper boy. If YTW wants to be a drama, that's awesome. I would stop watching it, because there is enough drama on TV and in life. I started watching this show because it made me laugh, and the fact the laughter stemmed from people who were all broken in some way made it more genuine, and sometimes more real, than most comedies. But as a short version of The Deer Hunter? No. 

Edited September 29, 2016 by Ottis

[Traveller519]

For me the strength of the show has been how it manages to derive comedy by exploring the dark realities its characters face. Every once in a while it needs this authentic representation of sadness to ground the emotion.

Modern Family did a very "send-up" version of PTSD last night. There's a place for those jokes, but I appreciate this is a comedy that will build from the dark places like it did with last season's episode of Gretchen stalking the "happily married" couple.

I really enjoyed Edgar's reflection, and how we ultimately lead to his comfortable numbness at the end of last week's episode, following the Tow-Truck driver saying he would have to pursue this himself. As much as he want's his friends to support him in this, he can't expect it of them. Especially since we know they have their own issues. Even Dorothy, who wants to support him can't understand what he's been through. For a person who gets so much gratification from doing things for other people, the acceptance that they may not be able to help you in the biggest issue you have to overcome in your life is tough to come by. I hope he's found it, but will completely understand if he hasn't.

[Deanie87]

I thought that this episode was pretty well done overall.  I guess I just prefer the episodes that have the whole ensemble together, with the clear leads being Jimmy and Gretchen.  It doesn't feel like Jimmy has had much to do at all lately, minus last season's finale and that kind of bugs me.

I'm not sure what to think about the truck driver's speech.  On the one hand, what he was saying was helping Edgar and was interesting information.  But it didn't feel natural to me at all.  It felt more like he was reading from a pamphlet and just didn't work for me.

[MaggieG]

I actually enjoyed this episode. Seeing things from Edgar's perspective really showed what PTSD sufferers experience. And seeing Jimmy and Gretchen through Edgar's eyes, damn, they really are jerks!! We knew this of course, but it was kind of jarring in this episode

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Disappointed that I didn't get to see one of the characters singing this at some point during the episode:

[iMonrey]

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 it would be like Gilligan's Island doing a show on rape. 

Good analogy. I just can't understand how this show cannot decide if it wants to be a comedy or a drama. There is such a thing as a "dramedy," but that's not what's going on here. One week it's a comedy, admittedly with darker subtext like the death of Jimmy's dad or Gretchen dealing with therapy, but still a comedy nonetheless. And then all of a sudden it turns into this dark, humorless PSA.  I don't get it. I couldn't stand last season, it felt like they pulled a bait and switch on me. This season started out well but apparently they can't stay away from the angst.

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Its always been about the comedy derived from tragedy and dysfunction. 

Has it, though? I don't think it has always been that. Season One started with Jimmy attending Becca's wedding and meeting Gretchen, who was friends with Becca's sister. There wasn't anything tragic about the setup. They were both awful people who got along. It was dark, and yes dysfunctional, but not tragic and not premised in mental disorders. Season 2 was where they flipped the script and decided they wanted to tell a serious story about mental health. I don't know why. I guess it's their version of "edgy." 

I also agree with whiporee that it's going to be hard to go back to laughing at these people after seeing it from a dramatic perspective like Edgar's. 

[AlliMo]

I disagree. Falk has never presented it as strictly a comedy. It started out on more comedic elements because it takes time to develop characters before you can start exploring the more dramatic elements. I don't think that FX would have invested in this show as heavily as it has if it was straight comedy, and I'm very, very glad that they have.

I initially found Dorothy annoying, but I'm starting to appreciate her more. I like that she told Edgar that she didn't need him to fix himself, but she did need him to keep trying.

Edited September 30, 2016 by AlliMo

[Traveller519]

The evolution of Dorothy has been really strong. She's gone from always being "on" to being really honest with Edgar and herself. I think that's a very natural progression for a lot of people in relationships. We may not all be improv comics, but often we're putting the best version of ourselves (or what we believe) to be that early on while the walls are up, and those walls slowly erode as we become more comfortable with the person we care about. I'm incredibly glad Dorothy evolved from that always-on persona.

The evolution of Dorothy has been really strong. She's gone from always being "on" to being really honest with Edgar and herself. I think that's a very natural progression for a lot of people in relationships. We may not all be improv comics, but often we're putting the best version of ourselves (or what we believe) to be that early on while the walls are up, and those walls slowly erode as we become more comfortable with the person we care about. I'm incredibly glad Dorothy evolved from that always-on persona.

[iMonrey]

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 I don't think that FX would have invested in this show as heavily as it has if it was straight comedy

Why not? It premiered at the same time as the sitcom "Married" with Judy Greer and Nat Faxon, which was similarly rooted in a somewhat serious context but played more or less for laughs. I'm not buying the argument that this show started out with an intention to shift gears into dramatic exploration of mental health issues. There was no hint of that during the first season. It seems to have been a deliberate course change during the second season. I appreciate that some people find it compelling and like it that way, I'm just not among their numbers. I prefer the more irreverent tone of Season 1.

[NorthstarATL]

I liked the change in tone for an episode. just as last season's episode with Gretchen there is no reason to assume that the series will not go back to being what it has been. Sometimes I think it IS too difficult to examine a character as deeply as one might wish in short, dramatic scenes that are surrounded by laugh-out-loud segments, and a stand-alone is a way to achieve that. We may be even more uncomfortable next time Jimmy and Gretchen treat Edgar like a doormat, but having another perspective on a scene will make it more interesting.

 

On 9/29/2016 at 1:51 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I know some people who have struggled with whether to stay on their medication for various reasons. I'm glad that Edgar explained to the VA lady that despite eleven medications, all they do is turn the volume down. I've heard similar complaints about medication making people feel that way. But I wonder how much that bothered him before the meds affected his sex life with Dorothy. Yes, sex is an important part of a relationship, but it shouldn't take priority over your general well-being to the point where you are paranoid about garbage bags on the side of the freeway and freaking out over noises like water running in the sink.

The advice she gave him, to be an advocate for himself, is exactly what he isn't following regarding her. You have to put your own health first when you have a mental or physical condition that requires management. Just as you cannot quit an addiction for someone else, you cannot stop taking medication to appease someone, no matter how much you care about them. (And I am not blaming her; she has every right to want what she wants. THEY just should have come to a compromise that they could both live with, or parted way.)

On 9/28/2016 at 11:51 PM, Ottis said:

but it would be like Gilligan's Island doing a show on rape.

I think there was an episode where a gorilla had a "thing" for Gilligan, and Ginger rarely took "No" for an answer, but that's about it.

Since there's a candidate running for Prez based upon the current state of the V.A. against a status quo opponent, this was an extremely timely episode as well. I have met the type of bureaucrat that Edgar dealt with. That's not what our vets deserve, and, hopefully, there might be a change.

[butterbody]

Over half the patients we treat with medical marijuana have some form of ptsd, so for me, this episode rang very true. Vets with ptsd all tell a similar story, and they will sit in our waiting room and tell it to anyone who will listen. The conversation between Edgar and the tow truck guy is a version of a story I hear at least a couple times a week. "They dehumanize you enough so you can kill people" and the statistics of vets who commit suicide, 22 a day. It was all very tealistic. But since marijuana is federally illegal, the VA can deny treatment if you test positive for it, even in a state where it's medically legal. So most of our patients live in fear of losing their benefits (the ones they earned while serving our country) for finally finding relief, all the while being bombarded with pills. That scene with Edgar and the VA was completely accurate and how fucked up is that? 

I think this show is brilliant, but I arrived late to the party. The first episode I ever saw was the perfect couple from season 2. I was confused as heck because we never saw them again,  and then things started getting really dark. I've been able to put the pieces together thanks to this forum, but maybe that's why this episode didn't seem so out of character, to me? 

When they were redoing the pancake scene from last week, but this time from Edgar's perspective, I realized that I haven't been paying attention to him and I felt like a dick. There's just nothing else like this on TV and I'm glad it can't be put in to one specific genre.

[Ottis]

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There was no hint of that during the first season. It seems to have been a deliberate course change during the second season. I appreciate that some people find it compelling and like it that way, I'm just not among their numbers. I prefer the more irreverent tone of Season 1.

Agree, and here is the thing: The show isn't half as good at this as it thinks it is. Edgar clearly has had PTSD for most of the series. And in the episode prior to this, when Gretchen and Jimmy call Edgar for a ride and we see him sitting outside, drinking booze alone, he is obviously having renewed issues. When they criticize his pancakes and Edgar said "It was kind of a rough night," it's obvious something is going on, and just as obvious that Lindsay and company don't pick up on it. There are little hints all over the place two episodes ago, and even prior to that. We do not then need an entire episode that is essentially a PSA about PTSD and the inept VA. Just keep going. Keep the humor, make Edgar's story part of it, and you can still show the same things. 

Gretchen's depression last season, which also annoyed me, was the same thing. No need to stretch it out, making the show All About Gretchen's Depression. Make each character's issues part of who they are and how they act. Let the viewers see it and sort it out on their own. Put away the anvil.

In both instances, it felt like someone on the show had a personal agenda. And it was unnecessary, because what makes this comedy different is that it is about broken people. How they are broken, and how they are trying to cope with it, or mend it, or ignore it, has always been part of who they are and how they act. And it was still funny, if at times darkly so. Getting on a high horse about it makes the show worse, not better.

[iMonrey]

The inconsistent tone of the show just seems odd. The cynic in me sees it as an attempt to wow the critics and strikes me as pretentious. There are sitcoms, there are dramas and there are dramadies, and this is none of those things. The fact that it can change from one thing to another from episode to episode may seem brilliant but I find it baffling and wonder if it's being done simply for the sake of being different and noteworthy. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by iMonrey

[Deanie87]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The inconsistent tone of the show just seems odd. The cynic in me sees it as an attempt to wow the critics and strikes me as pretentious. There are sitcoms, there are dramas and there are dramadies, and this is none of those things. The fact that it can change from one thing to another from episode to episode may seem brilliant but I find it baffling and wonder if it's being done simply for the sake of being different and noteworthy. 

Yes, and usually this kind of thing is followed up with defensive reactions about people "just not getting it" or the show "not being for everyone."  As though those of us not enjoying these kinds of episodes would be better off just watching reruns of Two and a Half Men.

The creators haven't gotten to that point, and I hope they don't. But I find these forays into the darker psyches of the characters to be more and more off putting.  Pretty soon I won't be able to find much humor in watching these awful people treating each other the way they always have because now I've seen the deep wells of loneliness and dysfunction that they all carry inside. Thats not really why I watch. I mean, can't they all just get drunk and insult each other without my having to hate them for it??

[DrSpaceman73]

I don't mind the show being combination of comedy and drama, but this played out too much like a "very special episode" for me. 

And as a doctor I don't like the portrayal like this of all pharmaceuticals are bad, do nothing and cause side effects, marijuana is great and makes everyone better.  I realize medications cause side effects, but PTSD is hard to treat and often does require medication of some type.  If you are having problems with what you are on, the worst thing to do is stop it and just show up at your appointment telling your doctor you stopped it on your own.  You can call and tell them between appointments if you have concerns. 

I empathize with Edgar, as I do with many patients in difficult to treat diagnosis.  However, at the same time, having the attitude of wanting to be helped but at the same time wanting to ignore standard recommend treatments for your problem often puts the doctor in a no win situation.  I realize there was the other non-medication therapy that was mentioned, but even that seemed pretty experimental, even for a TV show.  It can be very frustrating trying to treat patients when the expectation can seem to be a type of cure or solution that does not exist.