Berlin Station - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

Your Berlin Station Topic!

[atomationage]

Anticipating Sunday October 16th:

[atomationage]

Richard Armitage, Michelle Forbes, Rhys Ifans,  Richard Jenkins, and Leland Orser.

Rhys Ifans is also in Snowden:

[crgirl412]

I watched the first two episodes online and I like it!!  It's not The Americans but it's still good.  Don't like the gratuitous nudity though!

If I got Epix I would watch it but I don't but I'll look for eps. online.    

[wanderingstar]

I liked the first two episodes. Definitely more of a slow burn type of series. And I'm still getting used to Richard Armitage and Rhys Ifans sporting American accents.

[mjc570]

I watched the first 2 episodes, and I thought it was just ok.  I really didn't like the beginning - I hate when they set up a show as a flashback, mainly because I just don't have any emotional connection at that point. Usually, by the time the show catches up, I've forgotten the beginning, anyway.  I'm mainly watching it for the great cast, and they are very good, I just worry that the writing will be up to their level.
  I do like the fact that by the end of the second episode, we get a feel for the various main characters, we know the motivation for the leaks and whose behind it.  While watching, though, I never was really caught up in it - I was always conscious I was watching a (perhaps not very realistic) depiction of the CIA in Berlin.  Bottom line - I'll keep watching, although Sunday is pretty much the night when just about all of the shows I watch are on.

[MissLucas]

Wasn't that a flash-forward? In other words the beginning had me confused too. (I hope it was a flash-forward that would make things more interesting.)

[mjc570]

37 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Wasn't that a flash-forward? In other words the beginning had me confused too. (I hope it was a flash-forward that would make things more interesting.)

ha ha, I have to admit that I really don't know the difference.  I thought the first scene occurred in the present, with the rest of the show (series?) happening in the past to get to that point.  I will certainly bow to your greater knowledge! 

[MissLucas]

Oh, I see - in that case, we're on the same page. I liked it well enough since it did a solid job of establishing various characters and their different motivations within two episodes. Certain things could be a bit clearer but I guess they will be addressed in future episodes.

[mjc570]

Am I the only one still watching this?  I thought episode 3 was ok, it didn't really change my mind that the excellent cast and acting are better than the writing.  I thought it was easy enough to follow (thankfully, I'm just not into complicated plots at the moment), but still feel that it just isn't any type of realistic depiction of spy stuff.  I don't have any first hand knowledge of this,  but just from watching a lot of other shows (which themselves may not be too accurate), but I had to wonder how indiscreet Steven, Richard and Steven's secretary were in the office - the office that was currently invaded by tons of CIA security people looking for dirt.

Maybe I was a little too harsh in calling out the writing, because now that I think on it, the characters are pretty well established.

[MissLucas]

I'm still watching. It's intriguing but sometimes it gets a bit too convoluted. I still have no idea what that fake room order was about.

The more I see of Steven and Robert the more I'm rooting for Hector. But I wish the show would finally spill the beans about Daniel's background. Are we supposed to think he grew up in Berlin? He seems to have German family ties. Was his mom an East German spook? (In that case his German is not good enough.) Why did she ask him whether she should stay or not before she left to get blown with her spook lover?

[crgirl412]

I would watch if I had Epix.  My dad does and I tried to watch it On Demand but couldn't figure out how to to do it!

[mjc570]

Am I the only person still watching this?  I have to admit, that I think it has gotten more interesting.  I especially like the emerging presence of Steven's wife. 

[MissLucas]

Yeah, she's definitely becoming an interesting player. At first it looked as if she was the wife waiting for her guy to finally accept retirement and give her the life she always wanted at his side. Apparently that's not really what she wants - she seems to have a knack for power too, interesting. And her sudden steel when talking to the secretary was quite chilling.

The more I see of Daniel the less I like him. Nobody on this show is truly likeable it seems. At least we got some background info on him and Hector. I wonder how Hector is going to make contact with the BZ now. Thomas Shaw could get mute but that in itself would be suspicious and of course then the show would end so I wonder what his next step will be.

[mjc570]

Well, that was an interesting episode.  I wish more people were watching.   It never occurred to me that Julian was Shirley.  I really liked the Chinese defector, too bad he's toast.  I thought Hector had revealed himself, to some extent, to Daniel, but it doesn't seem like Daniel is at all concerned that Hector's bitterness might have led him astray.  That hooker experience with Robert was just sad, but I thought the show did a good job showing just how he became disaffected with the CIA and was open to recruitment by Mossad.  Isn't Daniel supposed to be looking for Thomas Shaw?

[fakeempress]

I'm watching. It's intriguing. I'm a sucker for web of spooks shows. 

Quote

Isn't Daniel supposed to be looking for Thomas Shaw?

He is, just other things are happening too. He's trying to find who could've helped Julian out of the black site. 

[MissLucas]

I pegged Julian as the drag queen from the pilot, no real shocker there. Hiding in plain sight. Damn Hector: Julian, Valerie's daughter, Daniel's cousin, you're to-do list just gets longer and longer.

So, Daniel grew up in West Berlin and his mother was dating a a West German intelligence officer/Stasi spy and then got blown up by the RAF (that's probably not true either). I wonder if she was a spook herself. I think we saw the first cracks in Daniel's armor in this episode which will cause him to get where he was in the pilot.

But this was Robert's episode. Leland Orser was fantastic, Robert was such a major jerk in the first few episodes and yet it was hard to see him so lonely and desolate. Offering breakfast to the prostitute who did not understand a word he was saying and didn't care was heart-breaking.

Too bad not more people are watching - this show deserves it. (Btw. the episode's German title translates to 'Under Pressure' the song used in the first scene. Show's got a great score too.)

[mjc570]

What an exciting episode.  I'm glad there was at least some recognition that Daniel's mission is actually to uncover Thomas Shaw, although I wondered why Valerie didn't let anyone know or why she didn't seem to care that Clare had disclosed all the details of the upcoming, tremendously important op to Hector, who was not authorized to know about it.  Did she forget there was an internal leak?  I thought that made it clear that the whole operation had been set up to flush out Hector/Shaw, but I guess not.

Speaking of Hector - I'm not really clear what his motivation in leaking is.  I thought it was because Daniel hadn't thanked him (Hector)  for saving his (Daniel's) life, but now I wonder if the show is indicating that it arises out of any mistreatment of Julian at the black site.  Otherwise, what was the purpose of the hospitalized guy who identified Julian? 

I felt sorry for Robert - after that exciting car chase, to find out that it had only been a decoy.  WHo was behind that horribly mistimed rendition of Iosava?  I assume some enemy of Steven, perhaps that guy who had been the front runner for the Dep. Dir. spot until Steven set him up. 

[cali1981]

I love this show. The buildup of tension is very skillfully written and acted.  Watching the operation with Clare completely unravel was so well done and when it was revealed it blew up partly because some agency (maybe Langley?) was running its own rendition operation without telling Berlin Station was stunning.  It's weird seeing Richard Armitage in this after watching him as my avatar in the Hobbit movies. He has been very good as have the always reliable top pros, Richard Jenkins, Rhys Ifans and Leland Orser.  I suspect that as Daniel gets deeper into the black site that Julian escaped, er, was released from, the conspiracy is going to take on darker and wilder dimensions.  Can't wait for tonight's show to see the aftermath of the blown op. 

Edited November 27, 2016 by cali1981

[crgirl412]

Bummed that I don't get Epix and can't figure out the OnDemand at my Dad's to watch it there!  It sounds like it's getting really good! 

[mjc570]

Episode 7: 

Well, that was disappointing.  It was just so predictable that Clare would not come out of it alive (although she was pretty bad ass), that the rendition was done by the Americans (I still maintain it was by that CIA guy to get back at Steven), that it would become clear to absolutely everyone that hector is Thomas Shaw.

Speaking of Hector - that look on his face when Clare dies was just chilling. 

Not a bad episode, but could have been so much better.  I still like the series very much, and am glad I am watching.

[mjc570]

I just saw that it was renewed for season 2 - I guess the fact that I watch it is enough for Epix.  Thanks!

[navelgazer]

Wonderful to see the magnificent Michelle Forbes on my screen again.  I have been a huge fan of hers since her breakout on Guiding Light.  

[mjc570]

Episode 8: 
I really wish someone else were watching/commenting on this, as I am sure there is quite a bit I am missing.  This series is great - well-written, well-acted, interesting without being too full of itself.  This week was compelling, especially Hector's interrogation - the interrogator was great, although I wondered at "rectal rehydration."  I don't know what Valerie (Michelle Forbes) is playing at, except that she obviously feels that Robert is her rival for COS Berlin, although it seems pretty clear he is purely a beta.  Speaking of Robert - I really liked his parenting trouble, I guess this is to show that personally as well as professionally he is in deep water.

I thought the scenes in which various people were "visiting" Clare's apartment were pretty amusing - did they have to take a number?  Did Clare know that hector's recordings were there, did she know he was Thomas Shaw? 

Added: I assume the awesome Sandra will end up as head of station.

Edited December 6, 2016 by mjc570
forgot to mention

[crgirl412]

I feel better now:

I went to my dad's and was going to binge watch if I could figure out how to work On Demand but now Epix is not part of his cable package!  It can be added for 15.00/month.  

Maybe if I get myself a tablet and get Amazon Prime as a Christmas present to myself, I can binge watch it if it's on there.   

[cali1981]

Add Anna Devere Smith to the wonderful collection of great old pros in the cast. She is a terrific actress who is always a plus when she appears on a show.

[loosy]

Hey, crgirl412, Leland Orser had posted a few things on his Twitter-account yesterday, that maybe can help you?

Here   and here . Not sure if it´s useful though ...

[mjc570]

Episode 9

I thought it was ok, it certainly spent a lot of time going into the Hector/Julian relationship and why Hector is so messed up.  The only surprise to me - that the Germans knew all along, and let him leak stuff just to make the US look bad.  They really played Daniel.

I feel sorry for Steven getting arrested, but he should have known better than to go without being sure that the arrest warrant had been lifted (and now, I'm assuming it never would have been).  I sure hope we don't have to see him getting "enhanced interrogation."  Also, show - thanks for just showing the waterboarding, and not the "rectal hydration" mentioned previously.

So - Valerie's going to end up COS?  She is really cold.

Really, this show is so well-written and acted, it's a shame there isn't more viewership (I assume , based solely on the posts here).

[Lokiberry]

I thought this was the best episode yet. They did a great job with Hector and Julian's relationship. It was just so sad. What was Julian supposed to have done that landed him in the black site? Was he a terrorist?

Everyone in a position of authority seems to be screwed: Steven, Robert and Valerie (although she might be in the least amount of trouble, since the only thing she did was have her own stash of weapons).I wonder who'll end up in charge since we know there's going to be another season?

[MissLucas]

On 15.12.2016 at 3:19 AM, Lokiberry said:

What was Julian supposed to have done that landed him in the black site? Was he a terrorist?

Julian had rented rooms in Brussels to some guys who turned out to be terrorists - that was his only 'crime'.

Finally managed to catch up. The German reveal came as a surprise. I'm not sure on who's side Richter is - if I remember correctly he also kept intel from Krug one or two episodes back and I wondered why. So he may have another agenda than just being pissed at the Americans.

Valerie can go and live the rest of her life in a fridge. She's got at least two major skeletons in her closet and the one about mission Antoinette could end her career. Being responsible for letting the guy who was financing the Charlie Hebdo shooting off the hook is far worse than hiding some unregistered guns. I wish Robert had made copies of her file for the Israelis. Robert seems to be the only one who still actually cares about the station and its people (not so much about assets as we've seen in the first couple of episodes) - so naturally he won't become COS.

Steven should have had a better plan to escape Germany. That was some poor spooking. His conversation with the Romanian ambassador was interesting to say the least. It never made much sense that the Romanians took Iosava and the fact that that plot thread is still dangling is quite intriguing. I don't think it was Richter/the German - risking so many Germans civilians just to blow a CIA operation to kingdom come sounds rather crazy.

I wonder if Hector makes it out alive and somehow manages to grab COS. Wishful thinking for season 2 - but Rhys Ifans is so fantastic. At least one major tv critic took notice: http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/best-new-tv-shows-2016-1201938134/

[mjc570]

Episode 10 (finale)

I thought it was a bit disappointing, although the show generally did a good job of laying groundwork and tying up loose ends.

All the US spies were aghast at the thought they'd been taken in by an "eyewash," but nobody explains what that is, until the show guy after the show.  The explanation given is that "someone" made the Isovas look like terrorists in order to flush out Thomas Shaw, "someone" thought the information was true and had Mr. Isova renditioned (sorry, not sure of the right word).   Maybe I missed something, but I never found out who those someone's were, although I guess Clay Williams was somehow involved.  Where is some exposition when I need it!  I've been  a faithful watcher!  I earned it!

This ending shows the absolute folly of the flashback set up - I had totally forgotten that the series started with Daniel shot, lying on the ground until mentioned after the show.  Seeing that scene then was meaningless, and certainly didn't create any suspense in me, since the overall question was about Thomas Shaw.

Speaking of Thomas Shaw - I'm glad Daniel let Hector go (and that Hector was able to free Faisel, good call back), but why is he now saying he was Thomas Shaw in the VO?  Is everyone Thomas Shaw?  Why did he look so healthy in the final, hospital scene?  Was that a fake shooting?  Although I watched it, it certainly is possible that I missed something (or quite a lot).

Other questions:  Who ends up as COS Berlin?  What happened to Valerie?  I guess we'll find out next season.  I would love it in season 2 if Sandra is the CIA COS berlin, while Esther is head of her agency.

[MissLucas]

On 20.12.2016 at 6:31 PM, mjc570 said:

Speaking of Thomas Shaw - I'm glad Daniel let Hector go (and that Hector was able to free Faisel, good call back), but why is he now saying he was Thomas Shaw in the VO?  Is everyone Thomas Shaw?  Why did he look so healthy in the final, hospital scene?  Was that a fake shooting?  Although I watched it, it certainly is possible that I missed something (or quite a lot).

Daniel became so disillusioned with the CIA that he picked up Hector's mantle by the end. I think they really rushed the final scenes. Sandra got the tape they needed before Daniel got shot. Daniel was not fatally wounded so I assume they used the tape which contained evidence of the eyewash (the not doctored Iosova intercepts) to prove that Iosova's rendition was not ordered by Steven but was the result of inter-agency miscommunication. And it was also used for the last message of Thomas Shaw which was obviously coined by Daniel who was still in hospital in his final scene (so the timeline got a bit wonky there). The rest was then quickly covered up by the respective agencies in order to prevent further embarrassment. Williams returned home and t he Germans took care of Richter.

Well, that was intense. I hadn't forgotten the cold open/flashback and knew what was coming but I was still getting all anxious towards the end.

I agree that they could have given a bit more exposition to what an eyewash is - but it was explained within the show ('Distribute false intercepts to a small circle of people and watch to see who leaks them.' It was a blink and you'll miss it thing though. The false interecepts were used to start the whole Iosova investigation and the following clusterfuck of an operation which resulted in someone back at Langley ordering Iosova's rendition in the middle of a covert op. They never specified who it was. Hector had made copies of the original intercept and he had given Daniel a clue where to find them to bring the whole card-house down.

I liked how everyone worked together by the end, at least for a while - who knows how long the cease-fire between Valerie and Robert is going to hold. From that final scene at the station it looked as if Valerie was COS hopefully season 2 will clear that up. Really looking forward to that.

(And I was happy Hector and Faisal made it out alive, yay!)

[mjc570]

MissLucas:  Thanks for the explanation.  I still think the final episode fell short, but I liked the series very much and will certainly be interested in Season 2, if it is actually made.  I don't know what the numbers were, or why Epix decided to continue the show, but I wonder if they will be able to attract such stellar actors as were involved here.  I hope so.

[MissLucas]

I agree - the finale felt rushed and not everything was very clear. I'm not even sure I got everything right. Still I liked the show a lot. I hope season 2 returns to Berlin (well duh, unless the show changes its name it has to) and brings back some of the characters as there are still dangling plot-lines. Especially when it comes to Daniel. The show focused a lot on his mother but Richter made several snarky remarks about his father too. And Valerie still has a major skeleton in her closet. I would also like to know what happens to Robert. Sadly no more Hector.

[Noirprncess]

I'm sad there isn't more of a discussion group here.  I binge watched On Demand and agree episode 10 made huge leaps from the storyline.  I guess it will be interesting to see what happens in season 2.

[Sienna]

I REALLY liked this show. I've tried to convince more people to watch it, but haven't met with much interest, mostly because almost everyone I talk to has never even HEARD of Epix. It would be awesome if they licensed it to Netflix or something in advance of S2, to gain a wider audience.

It took awhile to build. The best episodes, to me, were definitely four though eight. Nine was somewhat ruined for me by the cheesy-ness of the flashbacks; the finale was decent, but a little muddled.

[NorthstarATL]

On 12/1/2016 at 5:52 AM, navelgazer said:

Wonderful to see the magnificent Michelle Forbes on my screen again.  I have been a huge fan of hers since her breakout on Guiding Light.  

Someone else remembers! Sunny & Sol something if I remember correctly, the at-that-time roadblock to Reva/Josh, so she wouldn't last long, but she was terrific! Just had to acknowledge someone who doesn't thing Star Trek was her first gig!

[navelgazer]

Thanks NorthstarATL.  It's cool somebody else remembers her stint on GL.  MF was only 24 when she turned the soap world on its ear with that performance,  (There are some eps of GL from that era on YT.  I would pay if I could get her whole story arc somehow.)

I was heartbroken, though, when MF turned down the role as the fiery Bajoran Star Fleet officer in DS9.  

[maeby]

This show was super fun in a binge just now. Came (to Epix free trial) for Get Shorty, stayed for Berlin Station. Spy thriller + stellar cast + shot on location in Germany = I'm in. Seemed to lock in midseason; I was hooked about ep6-on.

[LucyHoneychrrch]

On 8/5/2017 at 9:15 PM, f0Djw24nr0Sj said:

This show was super fun in a binge just now. Came (to Epix free trial) for Get Shorty, stayed for Berlin Station. Spy thriller + stellar cast + shot on location in Germany = I'm in. Seemed to lock in midseason; I was hooked about ep6-on.

It does take a while to build, I agree.  I can't wait for season 2.  

[MissLucas]

Wait, what? Season 2 is not only confirmed but about to air in October? I completely missed that, yay!

[navelgazer]

Also glad to know that there's a Season 2 coming out soon.  ;)

[mxc90]

The 2 episodes of season two are on demand now. 

[mjc570]

Got to admit, I couldn't wait, had to watch both episodes.  I won't say anything other than how great it is to see the show back, with most of the cast from last year. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Sylvia Hoeks discusses Blade Runner 2049:

[mjc570]

Good lord, is no one but me watching this excellent series? 

[navelgazer]

I've watched the first two eps, loved both of them, waiting impatiently for the next ones to drop. 

[mjc570]

S2E3:
Wow, Michelle Forbes is absolutely stunning.  I don't understand all the April love, they need to show why she is so favored (although I guess she showed initiative when Valerie turned her tracker off).  Something else I don't understand: why does Robert still have a job? He is needlessly confrontational, and seems to have zero political instincts.  I'd say he is the last person BB should have slept with.  Not much Daniel in this episode, unfortunately. 

[navelgazer]

On 10/22/2017 at 8:13 PM, mjc570 said:

Wow, Michelle Forbes is absolutely stunning. 

She is, isn't she.  I love how she's letting herself age naturally, yet she's still stunning. 

Can't agree about Robert not belonging in his job.  Every office seems to have/need the self-identified asshole, and that's Robert to a tee. 

Maybe they're bouncing back and forth between Spain and Berlin, so next episode we get all Daniel out in the field? 

[mjc570]

S2E4:

I didn't see the point of the BB past stuff - so she had a fiance who was a fellow agent and killed in a car accident, for which I assume she blames herself?  She still feels abandoned by her mother, which is why she deosn't form attachments?  I like both the actress and the character, but I just don't care. 

I very much like the Valerie/Josef pairing (he is adorable), but I still can't help feeling that this is a HUGE setup.  I don't really feel in the mood for more American humiliation right now, thanks. 

Worst part of the episode:  Smirking April.

Best part of the episode:  Robert's adorable son.