Lorelai Gilmore: The 10(+) Things I Hate About You

[Viqutorious]

That chocolate turkey gift was so strange, it was only enough for 2 people.

[TwirlyGirly]

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 2:32 PM, junienmomo said:

Wow. To extrapolate, full circle means Lorelai is going to go ballistic on whoever Rory chooses to marry. 

Maybe not. I just remembered something else from "But I'm a Gilmore!" (S5/E19). If you recall, before Shira lit into Logan and Rory about Rory's unsuitability, Honor (Logan's sister) and Logan thought the issue was Honor marrying Josh:

"ELIAS: There are serious matters to be discussed here. This is an important family. Marrying into it is important business. But no, we can’t discuss this until Mitchum gets here! [...]
LOGAN: Okay, I’m sorry. I have to jump in here. Grandpa, we all respect you and Mom and Dad, but the bottom line here is, Honor has to be happy. Now, if she loves Josh, then –
HONOR: Logan, I appreciate you defending me but I can take it from here. Mom, Grandpa, I had hoped that you would be happy for me, but obviously that’s not going to happen. You didn’t even let me announce it to you before you formed your opinion, and I’m sorry you feel the way you do, but Josh and I made it official last week. We are engaged now and no matter what you say, we are going to get married. In June.
SHIRA: Well, of course you’re going to get married! You’ve been dating for three years, and I already put a hold on the Japanese Tea Garden for next spring."

It's at that point in the conversation, everyone realizes the issue is Rory, not Josh.

As Rory and Logan are leaving the Huntzberger's, Rory asks Logan "But why don’t they think I’m good enough? [...] [W]hy are they okay with Josh?" [...]
Logan responds, "Josh isn’t marrying the heir to the Huntzberger fortune, you are."

It appears, then, the issue is one of inheritance. Logan is the eldest son, and therefore the primary Huntzberger heir.

Richard was the eldest (in his case, sole) heir to the Gilmore fortune.

Therefore, it seems mate suitability was of importance for the primary, especially male, heirs.

Since Rory wasn't a part of that hierarchy (Lorelai didn't have a fortune to pass down, coupled with the fact Lorelai wasn't a part of that society), it wouldn't necessarily matter who Rory married.

Edited January 25, 2017 by TwirlyGirly
Corrections to quoted transcript

[Kohola3]

Quote

That chocolate turkey gift was so strange, it was only enough for 2 people.

Plus it was missing its head.

[hippielamb]

On 1/24/2017 at 9:43 AM, deaja said:

And chocolate. You can't forget the chocolate that Mrs Kim so appreciated. ;)

Haha I did forget. The Thanksgiving episode is one I rarely watch but then remember how good it is. I like the small detail that Lorelai knows all of the Kim relatives by name and greets them. It shows a familiarity between the families. 

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

1 hour ago, hippielamb said:

Haha I did forget. The Thanksgiving episode is one I rarely watch but then remember how good it is. I like the small detail that Lorelai knows all of the Kim relatives by name and greets them. It shows a familiarity between the families. 

It's also an early indicator that Mrs. Kim is more open-minded than Lane thinks. Lorelai is an unapologetic, non-religious single mother who embodies ZERO of the ideals that Mrs. Kim holds dear, yet she's the mother of Lane's best friend and is treated exactly like family. I know Mrs. Kim did a lot of growing over the series (more than the leads, in fact), but she started from a much more progressive place than I think she's given credit for. 

[Taryn74]

32 minutes ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

I know Mrs. Kim did a lot of growing over the series (more than the leads, in fact), but she started from a much more progressive place than I think she's given credit for. 

The more I rewatched the series, the more I realized how true this is.  Even in Kiss and Tell, which was early S1, Mrs. Kim actually did overhear Rory talking about Dean kissing her but accepted Lane's "the Lord, Mama" without further comment.  And she relented on her harsh punishment after Lane got caught going to the movies with Todd, also S1.  

I think a lot of what we thought we knew about Mrs. Kim was just Lane's (and to a lesser degree, Rory's) perception.

[TimetravellingBW]

On 1/20/2017 at 8:32 AM, junienmomo said:

Wow. To extrapolate, full circle means Lorelai is going to go ballistic on whoever Rory chooses to marry. 

21 hours ago, TwirlyGirly said:

It appears, then, the issue is one of inheritance. Logan is the eldest son, and therefore the primary Huntzberger heir.

Richard was the eldest (in his case, sole) heir to the Gilmore fortune.

Therefore, it seems mate suitability was of importance for the primary, especially male, heirs.

Since Rory wasn't a part of that hierarchy (Lorelai didn't have a fortune to pass down, coupled with the fact Lorelai wasn't a part of that society), it wouldn't necessarily matter who Rory married.

I think putting it all on an inheritance/heir issue simplifies the issue a bit. The Huntzberger's concern with Logan's wife might have primarily been because he was the heir, but I think Trix was picky about Richard's choice because he was her beloved only child who she raised almost single-handily and was used to having a lot of control over. (Ironically a lot like Lorelai and Rory's dynamic).  Likewise, I think it seems viable for Lorelai to dislike/protest who Rory eventually marries for a myriad of reasons unrelated to money. 

Ironically if you were looking at it from a black and white, judgmental point of view of who you'd want for your future daughter/son-in law, the great Rory Gilmore - whose boyfriends were always framed as striving to be worthy of her - actually ended up being a much worse catch than any of them. I mean Dean is settled and well-off enough to support a family, Jess is pretty successful in his career and neither are having ongoing affairs with engaged exes or cheating on their significant others. (That we know of). Logan is just as horrible person as Rory regarding relationships but he's at least holding down a steady job/career. Meanwhile Rory scores the jackpot of no career and acting immorally and selfishly in her relationships.

Lorelai really wouldn't have a leg to stand out on regarding a lot of guys not being good enough for her daughter. Would she still view Jess as someone who drags Rory down? Because at this point he 's way too good for her imo.

(I'm honestly not advocating judging people and relationships that way but the show had such a narrative of boyfriends/girlfriends being judged for their "worthiness" in dating, especially regarding "a girl like Rory" that it's interesting the tables have turned). 

Edited January 26, 2017 by TimetravellingBW

[shron17]

3 hours ago, TimetravellingBW said:

but I think Trix was picky about Richard's choice because he was her beloved only child who she raised almost single-handily and was used to having a lot of control over.

Trix's letter said she didn't think Emily "suitable" or had what it takes to be a Gilmore, and suggested Pennilyn Lott as a better choice.  Sounds like an inheritance issue to me.  The key thing is neither seemed to care if their child was happiest with the person they chose, and I can't see Lorelai being that way with Rory.

[TwirlyGirly]

2 hours ago, shron17 said:

Trix's letter said she didn't think Emily "suitable" or had what it takes to be a Gilmore, and suggested Pennilyn Lott as a better choice.  Sounds like an inheritance issue to me.  The key thing is neither seemed to care if their child was happiest with the person they chose, and I can't see Lorelai being that way with Rory.

Especially since in the elder Gilmore's world, as with the Huntzberger's, it appears there is a belief future happiness is dependent upon achieving success in business (money), and being a part of the "right" social circle - not necessarily love. Richard obviously loved Emily, and believed she'd rise to the occasion despite whatever Trix thought she lacked. The funny thing is, despite Richard marrying Emily for love against his mother's wishes, both Richard and Emily tried to impose those values on Lorelai with Luke (I think more so Emily, because she tried to manipulate Christopher behind the scenes in an attempt to get Luke away from Lorelai). Richard just thought he could "remake" Luke into a man more suitable for his daughter.

Of course Lorelai was (rightly) incensed when she found out about what her mother did to try and get Christopher back in the picture. But hadn't she manipulated the situation to get Jess out of Rory's life? And that is yet another problem I have with Lorelai - she vilifies her mother for the same types of behaviors she engages in herself. Why isn't Emily entitled to the same justifications for what she did (wanted the best for Lorelai, wanted to keep Lorelai safe) that Lorelai used to justify what she did (wanted the best for Rory, wanted to keep Rory safe)? It doesn't seem Lorelai ever thinks about that...

[TimetravellingBW]

6 hours ago, TwirlyGirly said:

Especially since in the elder Gilmore's world, as with the Huntzberger's, it appears there is a belief future happiness is dependent upon achieving success in business (money), and being a part of the "right" social circle - not necessarily love. Richard obviously loved Emily, and believed she'd rise to the occasion despite whatever Trix thought she lacked. The funny thing is, despite Richard marrying Emily for love against his mother's wishes, both Richard and Emily tried to impose those values on Lorelai with Luke (I think more so Emily, because she tried to manipulate Christopher behind the scenes in an attempt to get Luke away from Lorelai). Richard just thought he could "remake" Luke into a man more suitable for his daughter.

Of course Lorelai was (rightly) incensed when she found out about what her mother did to try and get Christopher back in the picture. But hadn't she manipulated the situation to get Jess out of Rory's life? And that is yet another problem I have with Lorelai - she vilifies her mother for the same types of behaviors she engages in herself. Why isn't Emily entitled to the same justifications for what she did (wanted the best for Lorelai, wanted to keep Lorelai safe) that Lorelai used to justify what she did (wanted the best for Rory, wanted to keep Rory safe)? It doesn't seem Lorelai ever thinks about that...

Emily and Richard's disapproval of Luke was clearly because of his blue collar background/income/lack of upper class shine.  But I'm curious as to why Trix thought Emily was unsuitable for Richard, because it's never explained. There's no indication that Emily came from a poor or non-Hartford elite background like Luke did. (In s7 she comments she went to Smith and was always meant to be "a wife" which seems consistent with her circle). Did she come from that world but a slightly less wealthy and prestigious family than the Gilmores? Was she a Rory Gilmore compared to Richard's Logan Huntzberger?

Or was it purely a personality issue and Trix thought Emily had an unsuitable temperament - she was pretty fiery, spiky and rude for an appropriate socialite wife - and Pennilyn Lott behaved better? (From Pennilyn's very brief appearance the actress played her effortlessly gracious and cool). I wish we knew more.

To be fair on Lorelai regarding Rory's relationships, she does realize several times that she's acting like Emily and makes an effort not to control Rory. (Encouraging her with Dean, stepping back from judging regarding Logan etc.). The problem with Jess, was that Lorelai tried to be ok with him around Rory but attacked him and undermined their relationship behind Rory's back.  Accusing Jess of theft, screaming at Luke that she'd hate Jess forever, involving herself in the couple's personal argument by yelling at Jess for not calling Rory and telling Jess that "Rory was so over him and moved on" despite evidence to the contrary. 

Unlike Emily I don't think Lorelai was deliberately manipulating Rory's life - her "I accept you guys" was a consequence of trying to keep her "cool mom" cred but she didn't have the maturity to stop battling him. She needed to swing one way or the other: Either admit to Rory she wasn't comfortable with Jess or genuinely accept their relationship and stop pushing him away from her daughter whenever Rory wasn't in the room.

Edited January 26, 2017 by TimetravellingBW

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

I mentioned a while ago in the Emily thread that I thought Emily was probably from a very wealthy, well-bred family on her father's side, but that her mother might've been a former Hollywood actress or Broadway dancer (I recently rewatched Postcards from the Edge and am now picturing Shirley MacLaine as Emily's mother). Someone who would've been the toast of society in Los Angeles, but would've been considered vulgar and cheap in old money Hartford. Emily loved her, but knew she was a social handicap, which is why she clings so vehemently to social order and protocol. It's how she *proves* she belongs in high society despite her dubious parentage. 

I also think it's why she's so at odds with Lorelai. A perfect debutant daughter would've cemented her role as the perfect society matron, but she got a daughter very much like her mother (headcanon mine). The beaded blouse Lorelai wore the day her crush called her "loud and weird" was originally Emily's mother's (named Victoria in my head). If Lorelai hadn't found quirk capital Stars Hollow I think she would've been very happy in one of the bohemian neighborhoods somewhere like New York or LA. Or even Austin, TX. 

[TwirlyGirly]

10 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

I mentioned a while ago in the Emily thread that I thought Emily was probably from a very wealthy, well-bred family on her father's side, but that her mother might've been a former Hollywood actress or Broadway dancer (I recently rewatched Postcards from the Edge and am now picturing Shirley MacLaine as Emily's mother). Someone who would've been the toast of society in Los Angeles, but would've been considered vulgar and cheap in old money Hartford. Emily loved her, but knew she was a social handicap, which is why she clings so vehemently to social order and protocol. It's how she *proves* she belongs in high society despite her dubious parentage. 

I also think it's why she's so at odds with Lorelai. A perfect debutant daughter would've cemented her role as the perfect society matron, but she got a daughter very much like her mother (headcanon mine). The beaded blouse Lorelai wore the day her crush called her "loud and weird" was originally Emily's mother's (named Victoria in my head). If Lorelai hadn't found quirk capital Stars Hollow I think she would've been very happy in one of the bohemian neighborhoods somewhere like New York or LA. Or even Austin, TX. 

Your post has inspired me to create a new topic;

Let's have fun with this!

[TwirlyGirly]

14 hours ago, TimetravellingBW said:

To be fair on Lorelai regarding Rory's relationships, she does realize several times that she's acting like Emily and makes an effort not to control Rory. (Encouraging her with Dean, stepping back from judging regarding Logan etc.). The problem with Jess, was that Lorelai tried to be ok with him around Rory but attacked him and undermined their relationship behind Rory's back.  Accusing Jess of theft, screaming at Luke that she'd hate Jess forever, involving herself in the couple's personal argument by yelling at Jess for not calling Rory and telling Jess that "Rory was so over him and moved on" despite evidence to the contrary. 

Which is precisely what Emily did to Lorelai, when she went behind Lorelai's back to try and bribe and manipulate Christopher back into a relationship with Lorelai to get rid of Luke.

Let's not forget Lorelai saying to Rory, when Jess left after the car accident, "He’s gone, I win." To me this proves Lorelai's overreaction (IMO) to Rory's injury in the car accident was deliberate, and something she thought could be used as an opportunity to get Jess out of Stars Hollow and away from Rory.

[hippielamb]

On 1/25/2017 at 6:49 PM, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

It's also an early indicator that Mrs. Kim is more open-minded than Lane thinks. Lorelai is an unapologetic, non-religious single mother who embodies ZERO of the ideals that Mrs. Kim holds dear, yet she's the mother of Lane's best friend and is treated exactly like family. I know Mrs. Kim did a lot of growing over the series (more than the leads, in fact), but she started from a much more progressive place than I think she's given credit for. 

She also allows Lane to spend time at Lorelai's even though the GG's eat junk food, and their entertainment choices are not Mrs Kim endorsed. I grew up with my own Mama Kim and in my experience, strict religious parents don't allow their kids to be exposed to things they don't approve of. I wish we got more scenes between Lorelai and Mrs Kim, they played off each other so well. Totally different philosophies yet both loving their daughters more than anything. 

[Kn9]

Oh my gosh I thought I was the only one that wants to ring Lorelai's neck. Just a note I'm on season 6 only. I just can't stand her (but like the show) :)

i hate how mean and against her parents she is even though she is a horrible kid. Her mom forgave her for humiliating her in a magazine article but she gets mad when they decide to support Rory in taking time off college. The parents are right in not pushing her to go to school when she's unsure. A lot of kids go through this and cutting her out of your life doesn't help. Her parents didn't cut her out when she got pregnant in high school! She ran away! She should take no credit in Rory. She got lucky Rory had better genes. Plus they are always bailing her out of money problems. So she has to have dinner with them, big whoop! So they're proper people, not inappropriate like her.

 

She gave Luke a hard time about his ex returning, but she goes around dating different guys and he has to just like them.

 

She gave Chris a load of crap about not telling her about his girlfriend, but, like Chris points out, she was engaged to be married and didn't even tell him.

I also hate how she's such a hip, cool, open mom (proud her daughter went to a police-raided party), eats like a teenager, TRIES to be quirky cute, but is annoying as hell (when she walked in the room at the Inn with Luke and his  girlfriend and kept rambling and hanging around like an annoying lunatic).

its like all eyes on her. Everything has to be her way. (Her anger that Rory chose Yale). I just really, really hate her. I wonder if anyone likes her, or are we supposed to like her, or if I watched this when I was younger if I would've liked her. But as an older adult now, I can't stand her.

[junienmomo]

On 2/16/2017 at 10:52 PM, Kn9 said:

I wonder if anyone likes her, or are we supposed to like her, or if I watched this when I was younger if I would've liked her. But as an older adult now, I can't stand her.

The writers treat both girls as special wonderful snowflakes and seem oblivious to many of the faults they write about. I can't imagine, though, that they honestly think effing her ex three hours after walking out on her fiancé was a special snowflake moment.

There are fans who believe you must love Lorelai in order to love GG. Lorelai, for the most part, sees nothing wrong in her behavior. 

But yeah, this thread wouldn't exist if loving her were universal.

[qtpye]

On 1/28/2017 at 9:48 PM, hippielamb said:

I wish we got more scenes between Lorelai and Mrs Kim, they played off each other so well. Totally different philosophies yet both loving their daughters more than anything. 

One of the rare, a townie does not think Lorelai is the best thing ever moment, came when they first met.  Mama Kim honestly says she does not want Lane to end up like Lorelai.  Lorelai pauses for a second and says she does not want Rory to end up like her (Lorelai) either.  It was a rare moment of , yes I stand by my choices, but being a teenage mother was not good idea for anyone, self reflections.

I know people who wished they had teen parents, because Lorelai and Rory were such soul mates.  I do not think this show means to glamorize teen pregnancy, but we hear more about the hardships then see it.  By the time we check in with Lorelai, she is already successful and living in her quirky cottage.  Her biggest problem is hitting up her incredibly rich parents for a loan to send her daughter to an elite private school...very first world problems.

[hippielamb]

On 3/7/2017 at 0:21 PM, qtpye said:

One of the rare, a townie does not think Lorelai is the best thing ever moment, came when they first met.  Mama Kim honestly says she does not want Lane to end up like Lorelai.  Lorelai pauses for a second and says she does not want Rory to end up like her (Lorelai) either.  It was a rare moment of , yes I stand by my choices, but being a teenage mother was not good idea for anyone, self reflections.

I know people who wished they had teen parents, because Lorelai and Rory were such soul mates.  I do not think this show means to glamorize teen pregnancy, but we hear more about the hardships then see it.  By the time we check in with Lorelai, she is already successful and living in her quirky cottage.  Her biggest problem is hitting up her incredibly rich parents for a loan to send her daughter to an elite private school...very first world problems.

I was a teen mom and it's not easy by any means. I admit to taking offense when people criticize Lorelai's parenting, when in my experience, teenagers with kids are different than thirtysomethings with kids. (Like the reviewer who claimed Lorelai was a bad mom for showing up at Rory's school in cutoffs. Lol really?) We definitely see it through rose coloured glasses here. I remember watching season 2 and loving Mia. Why couldn't I have had a Mia? Most runaway teenage moms don't get the breaks that Lorelai got. I still love her though. 

[nclpllm]

I didn't have any problems at all with Lorelai after the original airing (before the annual dvd viewings). I tuned into Parenthood because Lauren Graham was in it. Right of the bat her Sarah Braverman went to her parents for help, and as misplaced as it is since it was a different character, I was relieved. Subconsciously I was exhausted with Lorelai's constant hatred of taking help (that was always so readily available). When I watch now, it's with an added layer of frustration that she can't figure out that Emily is desperate to keep a place in their lives, the main reason for all the manipulating, the strings. At Rory's birthday in S1, the party at their house, she reflects to Sookie that her parents have never come there, and I'm confused. Are we supposed to feel sorry for her about this? Her awful parents refuse to come see her? I'm sure she never invited them, and she tried to get them to leave as quickly as possible most times they visited after this. 

My other complaints have already been discussed here. Her self-absorption, making everything about her (at other people's major life events *cringe*) as well as issues between Rory and Emily/Richard (and Emily getting involved with Sookie's wedding). This is about me. The antihero theory is interesting, but like someone said, it wasn't intentional. There is no awareness that what they think is highly intelligent wit comes off as obnoxious. Lorelai is an author avatar, and the author is kind of an a-hole who's dazzled with herself. The attitude of superiority is insufferable. I agree that Lauren Graham is the character's saving grace. 

It's kind of BS when Lorelai acts like she has so much parental know-how. Like Gigi needs to be told no. As though the "angle child" ever needed discipline, or was ever told no. Rory doesn't tolerate punishment, she leaves the room. And since being best friends with Rory is Lorelai's first concern, she'll give in so they can be friends again. This probably contributed Rory's inability to handle criticism if they wanted to give the character depth, except it's another area I won't give the writers credit for, because haters are vilified, and must be ignored. Gilmores are special. 

I get a little annoyed with people who get exasperated over criticism of Lorelai, asking if we want the characters to be perfect. No, I don't. But it's not too much to ask for the character to realize her flaws and grow. I think in ASP's mind, once the characters develop (positively), the conflict is gone and everything is boring. Which goes to show her limitations.  

Edited March 25, 2017 by nclpllm

[Guest]

I love the episode Ted Koppel's NightOut, but Lorelai is so awful in it that I want to shake her.

First, the hovering to get tables at Luke- yes, tables. Not a table.

Then wanting a ticket even though it meant someone else not getting to go even though she hated football. (This is really R&E's fault for allowing it though, but if they hadn't....)

Then game day- making fun of everything, trying to get random guys to give her food because she is SO charming, the horrifically embarrassing pony conversation with Pennylynn Lott, making fun of a young boy for being in the bathroom with his mom,etc.

Then comes the date with Jason- she didn't like the date he arranged for them so she wouldn't go along with it, chalk it up to a bad date, and move along. Then she starts playing around with people's timecards, which if she stopped thinking about herself for three seconds, she should know would get them in huge trouble possibly!

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

Ted Koppel's NightOut

That was beginning to end horrible in terms of Lorelai's actions.  She didn't have a single redeeming moment that I can think of.  Definitely the worst behavior for an adult ever.  Hell, even a child couldn't get away with all of that crap.

[TwirlyGirly]

14 hours ago, nclpllm said:

<snip>At Rory's birthday in S1, the party at their house, she reflects to Sookie that her parents have never come there, and I'm confused. Are we supposed to feel sorry for her about this? Her awful parents refuse to come see her? I'm sure she never invited them, and she tried to get them to leave as quickly as possible most times they visited after this. 

Bingo!

14 hours ago, nclpllm said:

<snip>Her self-absorption, making everything about her (at other people's major life events *cringe*) as well as issues between Rory and Emily/Richard (and Emily getting involved with Sookie's wedding). This is about me. <snip>

Always. Lorelai talked about her "Star's Hollow life" and "Hartford life," and in her perfect world, the twain would never meet. Unless she needed something from the "Hartford life," in which case, she expected it to always be on her terms. When it wasn't, it was manipulation. But Lorelai herself wasn't above doing some manipulation on her own, was she? That's what "Ted Koppel's Night Out" was about - she couldn't bear to see Rory and her grandparents share an experience without her, so even if the event was something in which she had absolutely no interest, she was going to go, by God. And do everything in her power to make it unpleasant for everybody else. Because how dare Richard and Emily invite Rory to join them in their annual celebration of the Harvard/Yale game! The nerve of those people wanting to spend time with their granddaughter. It had to be a plot to wrench Rory away from her mother!

6 hours ago, deaja said:

Then comes the date with Jason- she didn't like the date he arranged for them so she wouldn't go along with it, chalk it up to a bad date, and move along. Then she starts playing around with people's timecards, which if she stopped thinking about herself for three seconds, she should know would get them in huge trouble possibly!

Wait a minute - do you honestly expect Lorelai Gilmore to stop and think about whether what she wants to do might negatively affect other people? Haha! Not a chance...

Lorelai and Jason left a mess behind in that stockroom. Who did they think was going to clean it up?

[qtpye]

On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 10:59 PM, nclpllm said:

It's kind of BS when Lorelai acts like she has so much parental know-how. Like Gigi needs to be told no. As though the "angle child" ever needed discipline, or was ever told no. Rory doesn't tolerate punishment, she leaves the room. And since being best friends with Rory is Lorelai's first concern, she'll give in so they can be friends again. This probably contributed Rory's inability to handle criticism if they wanted to give the character depth, except it's another area I won't give the writers credit for, because haters are vilified, and must be ignored. Gilmores are special. 

I get a little annoyed with people who get exasperated over criticism of Lorelai, asking if we want the characters to be perfect. No, I don't. But it's not too much to ask for the character to realize her flaws and grow. I think in ASP's mind, once the characters develop (positively), the conflict is gone and everything is boring. Which goes to show her limitations.

Word to all of this.  It was confirmed when Richard went to Lorelai's house and said that he had never been invited and when Emily found out Lorelai traded in her house warming present for a monkey lamp.

You are so right about angel child Rory never being criticize and going bat shit the one time someone dared to say she was not perfect.

I think Lorelai bases all her self worth and esteem on Rory.  To her, at least during the series initial run,  Rory was the perfect child and therefore she was a better mother then Emily.  To her this meant that she had won.  It did not occur to her that Rory was far from perfect, she is just naturally more reserved and meeker then her mother and grandmother.

Also, what the heck did Rory have to rebel against?  When in her childhood has she ever been told "no"?  How many of us could go to our parents and say we needed to get into an elite 40-50K tuition school in order to achieve our dreams and not have them laugh their asses off at us?

Rory could live the smug and quirky life of Stars Hallow (money is not important), yet have all the privilege of the elite (Yale might name a building after you), so she had the best of both worlds.

[Melancholy]

You know, I was fixin' to defend Lorelai for saying GiGi needed to be disciplined. Little hellion drew with permanent markers all over the hardwood floor. Some kids are just wild no matter what their parents do but Christopher was really inept at saying no at all. 

...But then. What is really the difference between GiGi drawing all over Lorelais floor and Lorelai/Jason messing with supermarket employees' stockroom and timecards just to amuse themselves? It's literally the same impulse- from a 3 year old v. 36 year olds. To add to the age difference, Gigi couldn't understand the consequences of permanent v regular marker. For Lorelai and Jason, imagining the chaos and fights that would break out among the workers was the raison d'etre of their asinine sabotage. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by Melancholy

[Guest]

And to take it a step farther, what is the big difference between Lorelai probably getting supermarket employees fired and Logan stealing a trinket and possibly getting a maid fired? In fact, I would argue that probability wise, Lorelai's caper had a bigger chance of permanently harming someone (as Logan was truly dumb enough to think no one would notice his prank).  

Back to Gigi though, Lorelai could have made her point much more effectively if she had spared Chris her complete hyperbole. Gigi acted like a spoiled three year old. Lorelai described her as practically Rosemary's Baby.

[TwirlyGirly]

20 minutes ago, deaja said:

And to take it a step farther, what is the big difference between Lorelai probably getting supermarket employees fired and Logan stealing a trinket and possibly getting a maid fired? In fact, I would argue that probability wise, Lorelai's caper had a bigger chance of permanently harming someone (as Logan was truly dumb enough to think no one would notice his prank).  

Back to Gigi though, Lorelai could have made her point much more effectively if she had spared Chris her complete hyperbole. Gigi acted like a spoiled three year old. Lorelai described her as practically Rosemary's Baby.

Kinda like the way she described Jess to Luke after the "beer on the porch" incident? She made him sound like he was one, short, step away from serial killer... Not to mention her "repeat performance" after the car accident in which Rory "cracked a bone in her wrist," but Lorelai made it sound like Rory narrowly missed needing life support....

[Guest]

2 hours ago, TwirlyGirly said:

Kinda like the way she described Jess to Luke after the "beer on the porch" incident? She made him sound like he was one, short, step away from serial killer... Not to mention her "repeat performance" after the car accident in which Rory "cracked a bone in her wrist," but Lorelai made it sound like Rory narrowly missed needing life support....

 Also, how hypocritical of her to feel she deserves respect because Jess was in her home given the way she talked to her parents at their home, Luke at his home, etc.   oh and how about the way she acted in a church at Fran's funeral and at Davey and Martha's baptism.   Even though she wasn't religious, she should have recognized those were important occasions for other people. 

[nclpllm]

On 3/25/2017 at 6:02 AM, deaja said:

Then wanting a ticket even though it meant someone else not getting to go even though she hated football. (This is really R&E's fault for allowing it though, but if they hadn't....)

Oh the hypocrisy. She complains about horribly terrible/selfish rich people who are entitled to get what they want just because they have money. But Lorelai talks people to death (or flirts and charms if it's someone she likes) and doesn't let up until she wears them down and they give her what she wants. At least with Emily, a person can get paid to give into her demands.   

Lorelai's maturity took a noticeable hit in S4. Not wanting to go to FND, immediately proving Emily is right, that she won't voluntarily visit (and why on earth couldn't Lorelai or Rory tell the truth, that RORY wrote the wrong day down and that Lorelai was scrambling??), firing the interior decorator, dating Jason (who I love, but seriously, she acts like she's 17 when she finally agrees to go out with him). 

Someone further up was pointing out that Shira (though rude) was not wrong about Rory. Along with what was already mentioned, I'll add the function attendance. Lorelai didn't want Jason to take a date, and also didn't want to go as his date to that stuff. He said he didn't have a choice, he did business there, got two tickets and was expected to fill the second seat. Logan would presumably be in the same boat, so Rory's travel plans wouldn't fit in with that. Add to that Lorelai 'taught Rory to do what she wants', and didn't want her going to the club because she was sure Rory 'wouldn't enjoy herself'. Even if we disregard the society element, that's not a good lesson. Doing things you don't want to do is part of being a mature adult.  

Speaking of Shira's rudeness, the blatantly awful/selective manners (EMILY) drive me crazy (Trix is bad too). Emily is the worst hostess ever.  I found out last fall that ASP wrote the Gilmore's to interact (talking a lot and arguing) like a goyim Jewish family, which she described as 'so wrong and yet so right'. No, it's just wrong. If you don't want them to be super repressed and impeccably polite, with excellent posture (I'm looking at you, Bledel), then leave out the Mayflower references. They shouldn't even be super rich, which is clearly very important to ASP. I've read a couple accounts of wasps, and Emily just does not fit. But when I google Jewish mother stereotype? So much more sense. 

I'm sorry, I have the habit of turning every character annoyance into 10 Things I Hate About ASP.

Edited March 31, 2017 by nclpllm

[qtpye]

Do you guy think when ASP first introduced us to Lorelai, she seemed very fresh and tv had never had a female character like that before, whereas if you fast forward to 2017, it seems like every female character is some combination of her supposed quirky cuteness?

She is just not all that unique anymore and that could be why now it seems ridiculous that this woman and her unremarkable child were the darlings of the town?

[Melancholy]

That "goyim Jewish family" thing is annoying. Speaking as a Jewish woman, if you're going to be in the business of stereotyping us (which I'm not even above), we are pushy and loud and stubborn about getting our due because we're underdogs and we've been fighting for survival after over 5700 years of oppression and attempted extermination. 

That's not the prominent WASP Gilmore household. I just recognize their loud, pushy qualities as entitlement of the perennial ruling class, including princesses in exile Lorelai and Rory. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by Melancholy

[JayInChicago]

I come from intermarriage and even factoring that in, I don't know what goyim Jewish is supposed to mean.

[junienmomo]

12 hours ago, qtpye said:

Do you guy think when ASP first introduced us to Lorelai, she seemed very fresh and tv had never had a female character like that before, whereas if you fast forward to 2017, it seems like every female character is some combination of her supposed quirky cuteness?

She is just not all that unique anymore and that could be why now it seems ridiculous that this woman and her unremarkable child were the darlings of the town?

Actually, no. From Lucille Ball to "That Girl" Marlo Thomas to Rachel Greene, there have been lots of very quirky women in TV. 

What has always stood out for me w.r.t. GG is the fast-paced dialog. I love having witty ideas transmitted so fast it's hard to follow. Single funny mothers are also common; the nature of her being a teenage mom is different. Finally, the hour-long format and in most seasons, the high production values were very attractive to me. I was never impressed with Lorelai Gilmore as a wonderful person, and the 'darlings of the town' is probably more due to the stereotypical love of beautiful people than real contributions to the society. Lorelai's participation was fairly limited for a woman who supposedly had executive-level leadership capabilities.

[Taryn74]

I agree, junie.

8 hours ago, junienmomo said:

What has always stood out for me w.r.t. GG is the fast-paced dialog.

To me, too.  That and Rory/Lorelai actually having a real BFF relationship.  Also the fact that the townies were goofy but charming and never portrayed as one step away from snapping into serial killer mode.  These things are what set the show apart for me.

[nclpllm]

On 3/30/2017 at 2:41 PM, Melancholy said:

Speaking as a Jewish woman, if you're going to be in the business of stereotyping us (which I'm not even above)

I'm not, and apologize if I came off that way. I do a bit of research for my amateur writing endeavors rather than perpetuate stereotypes (such as rich snob). It left me befuddled about Emily (which is not to say I think people can be pigeon holed, or that no one else would have those traits), until learning what ASP was going for. And I know she doesn't shy away from stereotypes.     

I don't care for the way both Emily and Lorelai had scorn for people different from them. Like a person isn't worth getting to know if you know you hate the group (class) they belong to. They both did it (with Luke and Logan, respectively) and didn't go beyond grudging acceptance without really changing their opinions.  

[Melancholy]

No offense was taken. I love my parents and grandparents but they totally fit the Jewish helicopter critical academically inclined loud pushy funny but strict stereotypes. It's why I don't have a lot of patience for Lorelai's war with her parents because in my world, these are just the quirks of being in a family. However the most annoying and aggravating strictness of my family is grounded in the ethnic minority reminders of "You are unbelievably lucky that you just have straight A pressures. Your grandparents and great grandparents started with nothing. Our family fled from pogroms with absolutely nothing. How can you possibly cope if anti-Semitism chases you out of the US?" Those are urgent, serious reasons for neuroticism that the "came over on the Mayflower" set doesn't have. So I didn't take offense at your statement but I did take offense at ASP transforming the Gilmore attitude from WASP pushiness to Jewish neuroses.  Just within her own work, I instinctively pre-suppose sympathetic backstory on why the parents in The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel are so harsh that Richard/Emily/even Lorelai at times don't have. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Melancholy

[hippielamb]

I thought it was because ASP herself is Jewish. I don't know why she didn't just write Lorelai and Co as culturally Jewish. Some of her jokes (in the show) about Hitler and nazism i found insensitive. 

On 4/1/2017 at 10:45 AM, Melancholy said:

No offense was taken. I love my parents and grandparents but they totally fit the Jewish helicopter critical academically inclined loud pushy funny but strict stereotypes. It's why I don't have a lot of patience for Lorelai's war with her parents because in my world, these are just the quirks of being in a family. However the most annoying and aggravating strictness of my family is grounded in the ethnic minority reminders of "You are unbelievably lucky that you just have straight A pressures. Your grandparents and great grandparents started with nothing. Our family fled from pogroms with absolutely nothing. How can you possibly cope if anti-Semitism chases you out of the US?" Those are urgent, serious reasons for neuroticism that the "came over on the Mayflower" set doesn't have. So I didn't take offense at your statement but I did take offense at ASP transforming the Gilmore attitude from WASP pushiness to Jewish neuroses.  Just within her own work, I instinctively pre-suppose sympathetic backstory on why the parents in The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel are so harsh that Richard/Emily/even Lorelai at times don't have. 

Yes exactly. My family has had the same attitude. I suppose I can sympathize with Lorelai breaking away from the family because it's fiction. In reality that is a much harder thing to do and would have serious consequences, especially if you come from an attitude of family first. Honestly, I get so annoyed with Rory when she is disrespectful to her grandparents in season 5 and 6 for real life reasons. I can't imagine being disrespectful to my long gone grandparents ever. 

On 3/31/2017 at 1:37 AM, junienmomo said:

 

What has always stood out for me w.r.t. GG is the fast-paced dialog. I love having witty ideas transmitted so fast it's hard to follow. Single funny mothers are also common; the nature of her being a teenage mom is different. 

I love that she was a teen mom. We don't see much of that except as a warning tale. The funny thing about the fast dialogue is that's what the show is known for but it never feels too fast to me. Watching Scandal where they all talk too fast with a long monologue (or so it seems) takes me right out of it and stretches credulity. Maybe because I have seen GG so much that their speech seems normal to me. Of course, I don't know anyone who actually speaks that way. 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, hippielamb said:

Honestly, I get so annoyed with Rory when she is disrespectful to her grandparents in season 5 and 6 for real life reasons. I can't imagine being disrespectful to my long gone grandparents ever. 

I don't remember much Season 5 disrespect with the exception of the dinner where she was angry with Emily.  But her Season 6 disrespect infuriates me. Basically, she used them when she needed a place to go, lied to them repeatedly, didn't follow house rules (ridiculous as they may be), was an adult so did not have a reason that she "had" to live there - then when they irritated her, she left without the courtesy of an adult conversation.  Or even a thank you.  

I think that is really where she became an irredeemable character to me.  Emily and Richard were in no way perfect, but they didn't deserve that. And to get back to topic - I think her behavior is a reflection on how Lorelai raised her.  She didn't seem to instill basic character traits like manners, gratitude, etc.

[Lady Calypso]

16 minutes ago, deaja said:

I don't remember much Season 5 disrespect with the exception of the dinner where she was angry with Emily.  But her Season 6 disrespect infuriates me. Basically, she used them when she needed a place to go, lied to them repeatedly, didn't follow house rules (ridiculous as they may be), was an adult so did not have a reason that she "had" to live there - then when they irritated her, she left without the courtesy of an adult conversation.  Or even a thank you.  

I think that is really where she became an irredeemable character to me.  Emily and Richard were in no way perfect, but they didn't deserve that. And to get back to topic - I think her behavior is a reflection on how Lorelai raised her.  She didn't seem to instill basic character traits like manners, gratitude, etc.

God, I really hated Rory in season 6. Her attitude toward her grandparents really got me pissed at her. What made it worse was that she could, once again, cower behind her mother, even after treating her like shit. Lorelai's not a perfect mother and she made her mistakes in the first half of season 6, but she's always bailed Rory out of responsibilities. The one time she doesn't is when her own daughter runs to her grandparents, who do bail her out. So that's why I partly feel for Lorelai, even when she cuts her daughter off completely. Rory becomes such a spoiled brat, even after stealing a goddamn yacht and then drops out of Yale, then shows zero remorse for her actions. 

Lorelai had a big part in Rory's spoiled brat attitude, but there are definitely other factors and I do think that Rory needed more manners. Lorelai needed to act more like a mother from the start, not when it was convenient. Because no wonder Rory threw huge temper tantrums in her teenage and young adult years. She never got disciplined so when she did, she acted like a two year old.

[TwirlyGirly]

24 minutes ago, deaja said:

But her Season 6 disrespect infuriates me. Basically, she used them when she needed a place to go, lied to them repeatedly, didn't follow house rules (ridiculous as they may be), was an adult so did not have a reason that she "had" to live there - then when they irritated her, she left without the courtesy of an adult conversation.  Or even a thank you.  

Let's not forget Rory refusing to tell Richard and Emily that Christopher would be paying for Yale, forcing Richard to suffer the humiliation of taking to task everyone in the Bursar's office because he believed they had made a mistake, only to discover they had been in the right all along.

Richard didn't deserve that. Emily and Richard had supported Rory's educational goals 100%. She would not have attended Chilton were it not for them, and I daresay would not have been accepted at Yale (or any other Ivy League school) had she not attended Chilton and received their financial support for college, too.

Rory made the decision to accept Christopher's help in S6/E10, but it wasn't until S6/E13 Richard discovered his check for Rory's tuition hadn't been cashed. When Lorelai called Rory to tell her about the problem, it was no big deal to Rory. She finally agreed to send Richard an EMAIL.

Lorelai should have insisted as soon as Rory made the decision to accept help from Christopher she visit her grandparents IN PERSON immediately and tell them of her plans. There is no excuse for the way that situation was handled by either Rory or Lorelai, and to me this exemplifies what entitled twits both of them are.

[Guest]

In so many ways, Rory takes her cues from Lorelai.  Lorelai, who compared her mom to Stalin and found her mother to be worse.  Lorelai, who said that she didn't want her daughter's relationship with her parents to be influenced by her strained relationship yet still got upset anytime they tried forging a relationship without her.  Lorelai, who would complain about her parents constantly in explicit terms to her minor child.  Lorelai, who didn't make her daughter address the payment issue head-on. 

Rory is far from innocent, but I think much of it is Lorelai's issues being passed down.

[Melancholy]

Yeah, I sympathize with Rory in her choice to drop out of Yale and her rift with Lorelai. But her manner of leaving Richard and Emily was so selfish and cold and hateful. Add that she had Colin & Finn move her stuff instead doing it her damn self. And then when Emily noted that they were missing two pictures frames after the move, Rory indignantly shouted "Colin and Finn did not steal your picture frames!" even though she knows perfectly well that the Life & Death Brigade has an MO of stealing stuff from rich people's homes and that kind of weird prank of leaving a picture without its frame is classically Colin & Finn. 

She's also incredibly disingenuous when Rory is all "Why does Chris want to see us? I doubt it's anything to our benefit" guarded and cold before Chris offers the Yale tuition but then, when Emily/Richard express their anger and hurt at being shut out of providing for her, Rory starts in with the "I'm just allowing MY FATHER to care for me. What? Are you against MY FATHER caring for me?" fake melodrama. 

In-story, it's annoying because I get why Rory made bad decisions and poisoned her relationship with Lorelai when she was spiraling *down* in S5. I get that- it's clearly a story about Rory making bad choices because she's under (what for her) counts as incredible stress and devastation. However, her move out of Senior Gilmore house was painted as a triumphant moment where Rory starts returning to Good Girl Form...but weirdly, a big part of the arc was also treating her grandparents who deeply loved and supported her through so much like garbage. Like it was some kind of "I will Survive" bad-ass empowerment, even though it was really just bratty. 

And you know, I sympathized with Rory in early S6 because I didn't like how Lorelai just abruptly cut Rory out of her life and refused to speak to her. But then, Rory turned around and did the same thing to her grandparents. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by Melancholy

[hippielamb]

7 hours ago, deaja said:

I don't remember much Season 5 disrespect with the exception of the dinner where she was angry with Emily.  But her Season 6 disrespect infuriates me. Basically, she used them when she needed a place to go, lied to them repeatedly, didn't follow house rules (ridiculous as they may be), was an adult so did not have a reason that she "had" to live there - then when they irritated her, she left without the courtesy of an adult conversation.  Or even a thank you.  

I think that is really where she became an irredeemable character to me.  Emily and Richard were in no way perfect, but they didn't deserve that. And to get back to topic - I think her behavior is a reflection on how Lorelai raised her.  She didn't seem to instill basic character traits like manners, gratitude, etc.

I was referring to Rory turning a blind eye to Logan stealing from her grandparents. They had been nothing but good to her. Footing the tuition for Chilton before Lorelai repaid them, paying for Yale, buying her a car, etc. Even if they didn't do anything to help her financially, it's such a slap in the face. I can't imagine letting any boy I liked steal from my grandmother back in the day. Oy. That scene really bothered me about Rory. Up until then she was always respectful to them and often defended them when Lorelai was at odds with them. So I can't put all of the blame on Lorelai. 

6 hours ago, TwirlyGirly said:

Richard didn't deserve that.

Exactly. I always feel so bad for Richard. Rory was cross with Emily, rightfully so but Richard seems to be guilty by association in Rory's mind. It was sad when she considered cutting them out and Lorelai (!!) had to convince her not to. 

[Melancholy]

I think there was a dynamic in mid-S6 that Rory was taking a scorched earth policy to anyone arguably holding her back when she realized that she wasted her life from the end of S5 to mid-S6. She was just getting in touch with her ambitious, independent self and feeling guilty that she was so passive and lazy. And she decided to deal with those feelings by a) going into HYPERDRIVE ASSERTIVENESS to prove to herself that she's still a go-getter and b) to deal with her guilt by making others into the bad guy and these phony windmills that Rory could fight and triumph over to further prove IM BACK, BABY /George Costanza voice while also blaming them for what Rory could now see were months of poor choices.

It all meant that I didn't care for how she treated a lot of people on her upswing. Her grandparents, Logan, that poor editor at the Gazette who didn't intend on being stalked/bullied when he offered Rory a good letter of recommendation, and finally her shrink who she was unnecessarily debating ("Martin Luther King spent a night in jail too!") before she cracked. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by Melancholy

[Lady Calypso]

21 minutes ago, Melancholy said:

And she decided to deal with those feelings by a) going into HYPERDRIVE ASSERTIVENESS to prove to herself that she's still a go-getter and b) to deal with her guilt by making others into the bad guy and these phony windmills that Rory could fight and triumph over to further prove IM BACK, BABY /George Costanza voice while also blaming them for what Rory could now see were months of poor choices.

I totally agree with you, but in this sense, Rory did the opposite of being a go-getter and trying to change her passive ways by not confronting people in any way. She hid behind her mother to do the hard work, all because she didn't want to hurt feelings or whatever. How is someone who wanted to be a journalist in the middle east supposed to confront problems head on when she couldn't confront her own grandparents, or her mom, or anyone else in her life? The one thing about Lorelai is that when problems had to be dealt with, she could deal with them. Rory can't handle her own shadow, let alone other people, it seems. And when she did confront people, she did it with rudeness and with a pompous attitude. That is partially on Lorelai, for sure, but Lorelai has also been very professional when she has to be. She knows the time and the place to be a pompous princess, and she has a lot of faults, but there's a reason why Lorelai ended up being a very successful businesswoman. There are very rare instances where Lorelai was rude to people she was having a professional relationship with.

Lorelai has some good blame put on her for how Rory turned out, no doubt. But at the time of the revival, Rory's choices were all Rory's. Her mom would never condone cheating, and Rory knew it. At some point, it does stop being Lorelai's fault and it does shift to Rory. But in her college years, I can at least say that both are to blame, but Rory made the choice to rely on money and the rich lifestyle to get what she wanted. She made that choice to stop working as hard as she used to in high school and had other people giving to her. I can see why Lorelai didn't want Rory part of that circle. I think she knew deep down that Rory would like it more than she ever did. As long as Rory had someone to pass the responsibilities too, she would be able to feel comfortable no matter what. 

[TwirlyGirly]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

The one thing about Lorelai is that when problems had to be dealt with, she could deal with them.

I was with you right up to that.

Realizing you don't love someone enough to marry them and refusing to face them, then hopping in your jeep all upset as if you're the injured party for an impromptu trip around New England with your kid, instead of going to your fiancé and telling him the truth about your feelings, is not "deal[ing] with them."

Asking someone you've been dating to marry you because you're having issues with your kid due to her running off to live with her grandparents and you can't stand being alone isn't "deal[ing] with them."

Then later giving that fiancé an ultimatum to marry you immediately and when he tells you he'd like a bit of time to think about it, taking off to go see your ex and pretending you're the injured party and having sympathy sex with him isn't "deal[ing] with them."

These are all situations Lorelai created for which she chose not to take responsibility, played up for sympathy, and then refused to "deal with them" like an adult.

There's plenty more!

Edited April 3, 2017 by TwirlyGirly

[Lady Calypso]

4 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

I was with you right up to that.

Realizing you don't love someone enough to marry them and refusing to face them, then hopping in your jeep all upset as if you're the injured party for an impromptu trip around New England with your kid, instead of going to your fiancé and telling him the truth about your feelings, is not "deal[ing] with them."

Asking someone you've been dating to marry you because you're having issues with your kid due to her running off to live with her grandparents and you can't stand being alone isn't "deal[ing] with them."

Then later giving that fiancé an ultimatum to marry you immediately and when he tells you he'd like a bit of time to think about it, taking off to go see your ex and pretending you're the injured party and having sympathy sex with him isn't "deal[ing] with them."

These are all situations Lorelai created for which she chose not to take responsibility, played up for sympathy, and then refused to "deal with them" like an adult.

There's plenty more!

Oh, I agree with you on these! In terms of professional problems or problems not associated with her romantic life, that's what I meant! I should have been more clear. 

[TwirlyGirly]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 8:00 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Oh, I agree with you on these! In terms of professional problems or problems not associated with her romantic life, that's what I meant! I should have been more clear. 

The entire situation with the selling of the Independence Inn and the purchase of The Dragonfly was such a convoluted mess, plot-wise, so I may actually be forgetting something here (and please clue me in if I am), but....

In "The Ins and Outs of Inns" S2/E8, Mia comes to visit. Mia and Lorelai take a walk, and Lorelai tells Mia she and Sookie are about to move forward on their dream of opening their own inn. Did Lorelai and Sookie ever discuss where the money to do that was going to come from, BTW?

Anyway, Mia responds by asking Lorelai if this plan could be implemented "sooner rather than later," indicating she had wanted to sell the inn for quite some time, but hadn't done so because she didn't want to put her employees out of work (paraphrasing here).

This stresses out Lorelai to such an extent she then goes on to pick a fight with Sookie, THEN pick a fight with her mother (neither of whom does she tell the real reason behind her feelings). The ONLY person she told the truth behind her fights was Luke. She told HIM Mia was selling the inn.

The thing is, had Lorelai told Mia outright that they weren't prepared to make a move that quickly, and perhaps agreed to sit down with Sookie and come up with a reasonable timeline to present to Mia, is there ANY doubt Mia wouldn't have agreed? Of COURSE she would have. That Lorelai didn't think to do this proves to me she wasn't all that great at dealing with "professional problems."

The odd thing is we don't hear another peep about Mia selling the inn until "A Tale of Poes and Fire" - in S3/E17. So what happened in the interim?

Then, the money for the inn "magically" appears in "Happy Birthday Baby" S3/E18 - the very next episode - in which Richard gives Lorelai the $75,000.00 from the investment he made in her name when she was born.

And of course Fran fortuitously dies just two episodes later, in "Say Goodnight, Gracie" S3/E20....making the Dragonfly available for purchase....   

Edited April 5, 2017 by TwirlyGirly
Changed "their" to "there"

[racked]

4 hours ago, TwirlyGirly said:

Then, the money for the inn "magically" appears in "Happy Birthday Baby" S3/E18 - the very next episode - in which Richard gives Lorelai the $75,000.00 from the investment he made in her name when she was born.

And of course Fran fortuitously dies just two episodes later, in "Say Goodnight, Gracie" S3/E20....making the Dragonfly available for purchase....   

I could be totally wrong on this, but I thought Lorelai used the $75k to pay back her parents for Chilton? And it caused a huge fight? 

[TwirlyGirly]

59 minutes ago, racked said:

I could be totally wrong on this, but I thought Lorelai used the $75k to pay back her parents for Chilton? And it caused a huge fight? 

She used $45,000.00 of the $75,000.00 to pay back her parents for Rory's Chilton tuition; the remaining $35,000.00 was used for a downpayment on The Dragonfly.

Note: Rory didn't receive any financial aide from Yale due to that $75,000.00. Because of this, Lorelai was going to defer her dreams of opening an inn, and use the $35,000.00 left over after paying backing her parents for Chilton to pay Rory's tuition at Yale. Rory took it upon herself to make a deal with her grandparents for her Yale tuition/room and board. They would loan her the money, and she would pay them back beginning five years after graduation, and Rory would continue the Friday night dinners.

Rory told her mother about the deal with Richard and Emily at the Chilton graduation ceremony (S3/E22 "Those are Strings, Pinocchio"). Instead of thanking Rory for taking the initiative in resolving the issue, which enabled her and Sookie to fulfill their dream of purchasing The Dragonfly, Lorelai says to Rory:

"But just once, just once, I want you to get exactly what you want, and me to get exactly what I want, and them to get nothing."

Because, you know, making her parents miserably unhappy is the most important thing to Lorelai. Always.

Edited April 5, 2017 by TwirlyGirly

[Melancholy]

 Lorelai still had money left over from the 75k after paying her parents. She was going to spend that on Rory's tuition for Yale until Rory got the grandparents to pay for Yale. The math is fuzzy. I'd imagine Chilton had to be over 20k a year. That's not a lot of seed money to buy and thoroughly renovate an inn to start even if Sookie kicked in the same money. Rory wouldn't have had college paid for if she followed Lorelai's strategy to just pout and fume about any way of raising money. 

For other business fuck ups, Lorelai is lucky that none of the celebrity chefs that she treated like garbage got on their powerful social media and TV followings and humiliated the Dragonfly. Add Lorelai's general ignorance on the kitchen and flailing idiocy whenever Sookie couldn't/wouldn't work. 

As for Rory, she wasn't considering Richard and Emily as professional challenges. They're family. I think Rory initially blew up at Emily and didn't say goodbye and had Colin & Finn move her out precisely to be confrontational and make her grandparents rue the day they alienated her. She never imagined that behavior jeapordized her tuition because for all of the "Evooool Gilmore Strings!" caterwauling, Rory does have this confidence that her grandparents wouldn't financially cut off Yale. And you know, its very generous that Richard was set up to continue paying tuition even after Rory left them and stopped FNDs as she did. Actually, I think Rory was entertaining the idea of never seeing her grandparents ever again as long as Christopher was going to support her. And that's incredibly cold. But I think a, "I don't like them anymore and I don't need them anymore. Why should I inform them of anything?" drove her choice to not tell them about Christopher paying for Yale. 

That said, I do think Rory did feel some guilt for her previous cold user stance where she'd leave E/R entirely if they're not paying for her. Lorelai, of all people, advocating for E/R popped a "Gilmore Girls vs. Grandparents. United in this righteous grudge." Eventually, Rory felt guilty and afraid of their anger that she hid behind Lorelai's skirts at the first FND. I could be projecting. Rory never admitted guilt. But she did back down and went to dinner once Lorelai called for it. And she phonily defended herself with misdirection that I discussed above. But at the first volley-fight, Rory did end up (snittily) apologizing and she went back to admiring her grandparents after that FND bandage was ripped off. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Melancholy