S33: Justin "Jay" Starrett

[gator12]

13 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

And it matters because if you're Bret or Sunday, you think it'd make more sense for the people in power to take you to the end, not the 'actual threats' who outstayed them, including Adam.  Which is not just expecting Hannah to play for those two, it's what Hannah should've done to play for herself.  

Listen even if I were a Parvati and I was on the Jury, I wouldn't have voted for Hannah. You don't leave threats in and claim you made all the big move and are responsible for everyone that are sitting on the Jury. You know they are thinking but why is one of the big threats sitting next to you instead of a goat?

Since she claims she was the one behind all of these move, she could have and should have taking out Adam, Jay and David. The only person left to win the finale immunity challenge would have Ken who would have taking her to the FTC. He doesn't seem to have a relationship with Bret and Sunday. I think she overthink the Ken would have lost trust in me and completely misread the jury.

[kikaha]

Hannah showed how badly she misjudged the jury and her own play: she thought she had a good shot to beat Adam, yet lost 10-0 to him.  On top of which, she proudly voted out the only two people she had a realistic chance to beat. 

[gator12]

16 minutes ago, kikaha said:

Hannah showed how badly she misjudged the jury and her own play: she thought she had a good shot to beat Adam, yet lost 10-0 to him.  On top of which, she proudly voted out the only two people she had a realistic chance to beat. 

I realize that I was talking to much about Hannah in Jay's tread so I move the discussion to Hannah's

[waving feather]

If Jay gets to play Survivor again, there are a few ways he can improve his game. His social game is pretty damn solid but he should choose carefully who his day 1 core alliances are. Unfortunately for him and Michelle, Figgy and Taylor put so much target on themselves and those aligned with them.

Jay and Michelle had to scramble for them even before the freaking merge. They actually worked really well together for that first Millennials vote. Jay got the Intel from Zeke who the other side was targeting, Michelle strategized the numbers and their target, Jay convinced Figgy and Michaela to work together and Michelle convinced Will to vote for Mari. I wish they had more chances to work together like that. A good mix of strategy and social game. 

So yeah, if Jay doesn't want to be an early target the next time he plays, he needs to fly under the radar more and make good alliance choices. Bad alliances can torpedo your game. (I actually like Figgy and Taylor but they suck at the game. Still salty that Figgy can't even control her face at reward challenges after the tribe swaps.)

And he needs to play less with his heart and more with his head, even though that's one thing I did enjoy about him this season.

Edited December 17, 2016 by waving feather

[hincandenza]

Just coming here to say that I too grew to appreciate Jay so much more as the season wore on- once he ditched/lost his early alliance mates- and his reaction at the fake idol and being voted out cinched it.  The thing I respect the most about Survivor players is when they know it's a game: they can appreciate the game play, and don't take or make things too personal.  Jay- and David, when he went out- exemplified that, even though both certainly knew that if either had made it to the end, they'd have won 10-0 over any two of Hannah, Ken, or Adam.  I wouldn't be sad to see Jay back again, which is something I'd not have said in the first few weeks of this season.

[Fortune Falcon]

On 12/4/2016 at 5:44 AM, Stinamaia said:

You may think my point supports your "charming self" theory because Jay escaped with no consequences.  I don't find Jay charming at all and I have only to harken back to the attack on Adam during tribal council.  That had a very mean girls flavor to it even if loosely connected to game play.  I think Jay's strength is not charm but a rather arrogance of "I'm a cool Dude" that comes from being handsome and athletic.  Poor Adam is fatally attracted to the cool Taylor and Jay.  I think others have this attraction too.  Just think back to the cool kids in High School who weren't very nice, but others wanted to be with them anyway.  Perhaps Jay does have charm, but I don't recall seeing it on screen.

I completely agree. There have been a lot of bullies on Survivor over the years, but Jay really is the worst of them. You can tell how relieved Adam is that Jay is out of his life for good.

[Rachel RSL]

6 hours ago, Fortune Falcon said:

I completely agree. There have been a lot of bullies on Survivor over the years, but Jay really is the worst of them. You can tell how relieved Adam is that Jay is out of his life for good.

????????

I'm pretty sure Adam and Jay are very good friends. Plus, I don't recall Jay being a bully at all. If anything, he seemed to completely grasp the concept that Survivor is a game and never seemed to take anything too personally. He could be smug at times for sure but I don't recall any incidents where he bullied anybody.

[waving feather]

6 hours ago, Fortune Falcon said:

I completely agree. There have been a lot of bullies on Survivor over the years, but Jay really is the worst of them. You can tell how relieved Adam is that Jay is out of his life for good.

Is that why Adam is out there literally declaring his love for Jay (and vice versa) on social media and interviews after the show? Jay must have bullied him into it too, right? ;-)

Seriously though, Adam has said Jay is incredibly good-hearted and genuine and he is not the first person of the cast who has said so. These people live with each other in an intense environment, so they should know.

[Hera]

On 17/12/2016 at 5:58 PM, waving feather said:

So yeah, if Jay doesn't want to be an early target the next time he plays, he needs to fly under the radar more and make good alliance choices. Bad alliances can torpedo your game. (I actually like Figgy and Taylor but they suck at the game. Still salty that Figgy can't even control her face at reward challenges after the tribe swaps.)

I'm not sure Jay would be able to play under-the-radar, especially now that he's played once. People know he's a social threat, he's not a bad strategist, and that he can win individual immunities. I think if he played again, he'd need to align himself with people who need him as a shield—players who aren't strong in challenges and/or socially and need his protection pre-merge, and who can be convinced not to dump him post-merge (because they can be persuaded that loyalty will be rewarded at the end/everyone will hate them if they don't/Jay is their only connection to the rest of the alliance, etc.).

It's actually the same game that I've always thought that Joe Anglim should try to play. The difference is that of the two, I think Jay actually has the self-awareness to realize what adjustments he needs to make and the social skills to put together the sort of alliance that would get him to the end.

[waving feather]

1 hour ago, Hera said:

I think if he played again, he'd need to align himself with people who need him as a shield—players who aren't strong in challenges and/or socially and need his protection pre-merge, and who can be convinced not to dump him post-merge (because they can be persuaded that loyalty will be rewarded at the end/everyone will hate them if they don't/Jay is their only connection to the rest of the alliance, etc.).

It's actually the same game that I've always thought that Joe Anglim should try to play. The difference is that of the two, I think Jay actually has the self-awareness to realize what adjustments he needs to make and the social skills to put together the sort of alliance that would get him to the end.

Gonna be a tough road for him no matter what, unless he's playing with passive newbies like what Boston Rob had when he won. If Jay plays against other non first-timers, he would always be one of the early targets when they don't need him to win tribe immunity. Kim Spradlin said so as much when she interviewed Jay; that she would also have taken him out because he was too popular with the jury.

Edited December 30, 2016 by waving feather

[ljenkins782]

1 hour ago, Rachel RSL said:

Quote

I completely agree. There have been a lot of bullies on Survivor over the years, but Jay really is the worst of them. You can tell how relieved Adam is that Jay is out of his life for good.

????????

I'm pretty sure Adam and Jay are very good friends. Plus, I don't recall Jay being a bully at all. If anything, he seemed to completely grasp the concept that Survivor is a game and never seemed to take anything too personally. He could be smug at times for sure but I don't recall any incidents where he bullied anybody.

I get a strong troll whiff off the original post, though it seems kinda odd to bother three weeks after the season is over, lol. 

Although if there's someone out there who truly thinks Jay is the worst bully in Survivor history, I shudder to think what they would make of the likes of Russell, Colton, the ugly tattoo guys, etc. 

Quote

I'm not sure Jay would be able to play under-the-radar, especially now that he's played once. People know he's a social threat, he's not a bad strategist, and that he can win individual immunities. I think if he played again, he'd need to align himself with people who need him as a shield—players who aren't strong in challenges and/or socially and need his protection pre-merge, and who can be convinced not to dump him post-merge (because they can be persuaded that loyalty will be rewarded at the end/everyone will hate them if they don't/Jay is their only connection to the rest of the alliance, etc.).

It's possible he could pull a Parvati Micronesia style win out of his hat. She was an early target in that season despite only having come in 6th (?, I think) on her original season and ended up running the table. 

Quote

It's actually the same game that I've always thought that Joe Anglim should try to play. The difference is that of the two, I think Jay actually has the self-awareness to realize what adjustments he needs to make and the social skills to put together the sort of alliance that would get him to the end.

I just don't see Joe Anglim ever being actually good at this game. He seems like a nice enough guy, but his social game doesn't quite seem to be there. Jay has much more potential in that sense, plus he seems to have a decent sense of strategy as well, in addition to the challenge skill.

[LadyChatts]

Joe, like Jay, might benefit playing again down the road a few seasons.  Playing back to back for Joe, when everyone had seen his original season, likely didn't help.  In fact, Jeremy said it best that he wanted him around long enough to provide a shield for himself.  I don't know if Joe will ever shake his reputation, but maybe he'd be successful on a FvsF season.  I think he's an all right player, just not sneaky enough.  He's too nice, and too much of a challenge threat (he makes pretty good fake idols, too-if he only knew how to play that card).

Jay I believe could be a potential winner down the road.  He seemed to have the goods this season, so with time, maybe he could work on his strategic game a little more.

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

I just don't see Joe Anglim ever being actually good at this game.

Same. No strategic smarts at all and imo not a good enough social game to make up for it. 

3 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Jay I believe could be a potential winner down the road. 

I agree. Especially if he waits awhile to play again.

[Eolivet]

Jay did a podcast with Rob Cesternino last week on the newest Survivor season, but had a couple of interesting tidbits about mvgx. In retrospect, he said he regretted blindsiding Michaela because she was loyal and "his best friend on the island," while Will ended up selling him down the river (and Will knew he had an idol, so he should've gotten rid of him then). Jay never did a single podcast after his own season, so it's interesting he's doing them now.

Another weird tidbit -- he was going to be Corrine's date to her high school reunion because I guess they live near each other in Florida, but that was cancelled due to the hurricane. (Jay said he was going to "party with" Corrine, but is not "dating" her -- apparently, there's a distinction).

He and Adam are going to Taylor's wedding in January, and he, Adam and David are planning a trip back to Fiji together at some point (I guess the Fijian government gives them all flight vouchers to come back? Sounds nice.)

http://robhasawebsite.com/survivor-35-heroes-v-healers-v-hustlers-episode-3-recap-jay-starrett/

Edited October 16, 2017 by Eolivet

[Star Aristille]

16 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Jay did a podcast with Rob Cesternino last week on the newest Survivor season, but had a couple of interesting tidbits about mvgx. In retrospect, he said he regretted blindsiding Michaela because she was loyal and "his best friend on the island," while Will ended up selling him down the river (and Will knew he had an idol, so he should've gotten rid of him then).

That doesn't surprise me.  Despite what many thought, I knew that choice was going to come back and bite him in the ass, and it did.  Karma at its finest.

Sorry.  Never got the Jay love that other people here seemed to develop.

[simplyme]

11 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

That doesn't surprise me.  Despite what many thought, I knew that choice was going to come back and bite him in the ass, and it did.  Karma at its finest.

Sorry.  Never got the Jay love that other people here seemed to develop.

I mostly really liked Jay because he really appreciated the game. If he didn't see something coming at TC, he might be mad, but he also truly seemed to appreciate the way people played. He was a lot sharper and strategic in THs than he sounded in casual conversation. And he liked people. You can tell that in his THs when he talks about them.

I did think blindsiding Michaela was a bad move, and I expected it to do him in loooong before it did. I can't believe he made it as far as he did.

[ljenkins782]

On 10/17/2017 at 2:45 PM, simplyme said:

I mostly really liked Jay because he really appreciated the game. If he didn't see something coming at TC, he might be mad, but he also truly seemed to appreciate the way people played. He was a lot sharper and strategic in THs than he sounded in casual conversation. And he liked people. You can tell that in his THs when he talks about them.

I did think blindsiding Michaela was a bad move, and I expected it to do him in loooong before it did. I can't believe he made it as far as he did.

I thought I was going to hate Jay based on the first few episodes and he ended up being one of my favorite survivors ever. He seems like a genuinely good guy and was an amazingly good sport about being faked out by the idol. 

Listening the podcast, he manages to talk about people and analyze their moves without ever really putting them down or being nasty about anyone. Plus, his passionate hatred of littering really endears him to me, lol. One of my biggest pet peeves too. 

As for the Michaela move, it probably was a bad one but from what I recall, he was worried because she was gunning for Michelle, who was his closest ally at that point. Ended up being a moot point because Michelle got axed immediately anyway, but that was part of his motivation at the time. Will turning out to be a snake didn't happen until a little later and honestly, his biggest mistake in the entire game was forgetting to cover his puzzle in that one challenge, giving Dave the chance to copy it and go on to win the challenge. After all the fighting to stay in against all the odds, that was an unfortunate oversight that had a huge impact. 

[LadyChatts]

Quote

 

Another weird tidbit -- he was going to be Corrine's date to her high school reunion because I guess they live near each other in Florida, but that was cancelled due to the hurricane. (Jay said he was going to "party with" Corrine, but is not "dating" her -- apparently, there's a distinction).

He and Adam are going to Taylor's wedding in January, and he, Adam and David are planning a trip back to Fiji together at some point (I guess the Fijian government gives them all flight vouchers to come back? Sounds nice.)

 

I heard Corrine talk about that on her and Max's podcast.  Looked like she was looking forward to him being her date. 

Sierra recently went to Fiji with Mike Holloway.  I thought they were going for some charity related thing, but it looked like it was a mix of that but mostly a pleasure vacation.  So maybe that explains it.  I'd take a free trip, or even partially paid, trip to Fiji any day. 

As for Jay blindsiding Michaela-I think his intention for his game was good.  Will was kind of a weasel that ended up getting his own dose of karma in the end.  But wasn't Jay's reasoning for getting rid of Michaela that she planned on targeting Michelle, one of his allies?

[IndyMischa]

I binged the whole season, on the rec of a poster on The Challenge forums. (Jay is a Challenge contestant this season.) One question: why the f has this guy never been asked to come back to Survivor??

[grandmabegum]

I had the same question.

Edited April 19, 2020 by grandmabegum

[Eolivet]

8 hours ago, IndyMischa said:

I binged the whole season, on the rec of a poster on The Challenge forums. (Jay is a Challenge contestant this season.) One question: why the f has this guy never been asked to come back to Survivor??

::waves:: My uneducated answer: Jeff Probst doesn't like him, because Jay defies characterization. And Jay got impatient.

As you've seen in mvgx, Jay wasn't a "challenge beast" Alpha male. I also think Jeff found him lazy (difficult to argue with when you see him in the post-merge) and difficult to fit into a pre-determined box. So, Jeff didn't know what to make of him.

I'd argue the things that made him so dynamic as a player worked against him in a re-cast situation. He's decent at challenges, but not a challenge beast. He has a strategic mind, but nothing compared to the more cerebral players. He's too focused on the game to get involved in a showmance. Jeff Probst predicted Jay, not Taylor, would be going after Figgy.

(I remember being like "Jay's a shoo-in for Heroes vs Villains 2!" But where do you cast him? Is he the villain who blindsided Michaela? Or the hero Adam confided in about his mom? Too likable to be a villain, too mischievous to be a hero.)

The players they re-cast from mvgx were TV-ready personalities who fit into boxes: Michaela (if you love her, check out Game Changers), Zeke, David Wright, or the winner on an all-winner's season (Adam). I do believe there were hints they might've re-cast Jay eventually (his fake idol came back in Ghost Island, and they showed clips of him with it there).

However. Survivor relies on you to support yourself and then be called back in a few years, and I think Jay had his sights set on reality TV as a career. So, something like MTV, and especially The Challenge, would be very appealing. Survivor doesn't allow you to make reality TV your full-time job, while MTV does.

So, while I hate hate hate that Jay will never be on Survivor again, I also think the gamebots who dominate Survivor casting now would've never let him sniff a win. The Challenge is his best bet for reality show glory now (as long as he doesn't let it go to his head).

And as last lines go, "Go ahead, Jeffrey ... snuff my torch" is pretty iconic.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Eolivet

[truthaboutluv]

I liked Jay well enough during Gen X vs. Millennials and did assume at the time that he'd likely be one of those players I'd see on the show again. That said, I don't think his not being back on the show since is as complicated or as odd as some make it out to be. 

I think the season that made the most sense for him to be on after Gen X vs. Millennials, was probably Game Changers. I can't say why the producers went with Michaela and Zeke rather than Jay, but the truth is, the cast of Game Changers was a lot of WTF for me. I mean Sierra, Hali, Debbie, etc. Most of the players cast for what they claim the theme was, were a bunch of "huh".

Also, that season aired right after Gen X vs. Millennials, which means Michaela and Zeke went directly from filming Gen X vs. Millennials, to doing Game Changers. Who knows if Jay was willing to head back on the show that quickly. 

After Game Changers, the seasons were all new players, until Edge of Extinction. At that point, Jay was already into the MTV world and I'm not sure what the time lapse was in his doing Ex on the Beach and filming of Edge of Extinction happened. And then we had Island of the Idols and now Winners at War. 

I did see him on a Survivor Aftershow hosted by Chelsea who was booted early during Island of the Idols, and he did say he'd willingly do the show again. And it didn't seem like he thinks it's impossible, as in any bridges were burned. 

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[IndyMischa]

9 hours ago, Eolivet said:

(I remember being like "Jay's a shoo-in for Heroes vs Villains 2!" But where do you cast him? Is he the villain who blindsided Michaela? Or the hero Adam confided in about his mom? Too likable to be a villain, too mischievous to be a hero.)

I think he's straight up hero, after the character arc you mentioned in your original post that got me to watch. 

9 hours ago, Eolivet said:

The players they re-cast from mvgx were TV-ready personalities who fit into boxes: Michaela (if you love her, check out Game Changers), Zeke, David Wright, or the winner on an all-winner's season (Adam). 

I'm on ep 5 of Game Changers, watching for Michaela, lol. I didn't know Zeke was cast in this season, and couldn't believe it when I saw him on the boat in the premiere. Wtf? 

9 hours ago, Eolivet said:

And as last lines go, "Go ahead, Jeffrey ... snuff my torch" is pretty iconic.

100% 😍 

[SVNBob]

On 4/19/2020 at 12:02 AM, IndyMischa said:

(Jay is a Challenge contestant this season.) One question: why the f has this guy never been asked to come back to Survivor??

There is some speculation that he has been asked back before, but he'd already signed up for the Challenge and the filmings were either overlapping, or close enough together that he didn't think he'd be physically able to do both.  (As in, he'd be wiped from the Challenge, and thus not at peak performance on Survivor.)

Other speculation is that his MTV contract precludes him appearing on other competitive reality shows.  (Like when Pierce Brosnan couldn't wear a tuxedo in any other film he made while he was the then-current James Bond.)  Meaning that, contractually, Jay couldn't go on Survivor, even if he was asked, available, and wanted to appear.

[Eolivet]

6 hours ago, SVNBob said:

There is some speculation that he has been asked back before, but he'd already signed up for the Challenge

I can almost say categorically that did not happen. Jay appeared on Rob Has a Podcast in fall 2017. He made some sort of effort on his Instagram in 2017 and 2018 to prove he actually watched Survivor. Per Instagram, Jay moved to LA in 2018, and he and Adam (and Cole) started hanging out socially with the Survivor casting director. Anecdotally, my husband went to the David vs Goliath finale after party, and someone asked Jay why he hadn't been back on. Jay responded they'd "never called him."

MTV production people have told me I'm wrong, but I can't shake the feeling CBS has a "right of first refusal" with these people's appearances. Meaning you can't go on MTV unless CBS lets you go. That means CBS was willing to let Jay go to Ex on the Beach.

There's a rumor both Michele Fitzgerald and Jay (who dated at one point) were both cast on Challenge 33 in fall 2018, but two days before filming, both were dropped. I can't shake the feeling CBS put a stop to Michele being on, and without Michele, MTV didn't want Jay. Given how much Jeff Probst seemed to dislike her, she's not someone I would ever see being asked back, unless Survivor 40 was already in the works and they needed her not to go on MTV.

So, The Challenge likely dropped Jay once and passed over him again before they cast him. For this season, MTV production people said the network needed "diverse" rookies, and Jay, who Hannah once called "like a Peruvian Ozzy," likely was in the right place in the right time.

Pre-Ex on the Beach, I think Survivor would've gotten around to asking Jay back eventually. But Jay got impatient. However, I don't think there's any evidence Jay didn't want to be on Survivor again, and lots of evidence he did prior, and even after, Ex on the Beach.

Spoiler

There's also a weird post on Jay's Instagram about being disappointed and upset around the time people started getting contacted for Survivor 42 in January. The Challenge is no guarantee, and I think he was holding out hope Survivor might call or he could do both or something. The Challenge would've filmed in March and their casting goes up until the last minute, so it'd be too early to rule them out, but it matches up with Survivor 42. Could be unrelated, but Jay's cryptic posts always seem to relate to his employment/lack thereof.

Long story short: it's CBS who didn't want Jay back, not the other way around. I mean, read the last part of the below interview and tell me Jay didn't want to go back. I believe if he had his druthers, he'd have done Survivor over MTV now (more money) and done MTV later. But it wasn't meant to be:

https://parade.com/532413/joshwigler/survivor-jay-starrett/