S03.E09: Paradise

[ottoDbusdriver]

Episode Description:

Chandler gets a lead that could help answer threatening questions. Kara does some digging in the White House.

[JackONeill]

Well, the world has gone to hell in a hand basket. Say hello to the new president; say goodbye to the new president.

Free Cheerios to everyone who wants them. No more rationing. 

Now can they bring Tex back to help the gal at the White House, aka St. Louis?

[Artsda]

Good episode! It was obvious one of them in Washington was the mole. Once Kara starting following and thinking one was the culprit, it had to be the other. 

The battle sequence and aftermath with all the ships was great.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Why would whoever the Chinese mole in the White House is have been piggybacking their secret signals on top of US Navy comms ?  
Did they only broadcast when the NJ (or one of the other ships) were in contact with the White House or were they constantly transmitting on the same frequency all the time ?  And for good measure using really weak encryption that was easily crackable by Kara -- despite uber-hacker Valerie having no success at all for weeks, Kara recalls a few things from her ASW days and cracks it in minutes.

Allison Shaw is the leader of the coup -- didn't see that coming </eyeroll>

Gotta call bullshit on those missiles from the Chinese land battery arriving at those ships in seconds -- it would taken several minutes at the minimum.   And since the missiles were tracked from the launch time, all 3 ships should have had plenty of time to knock them down.  I like how in the close up the NJ at the end of the episode has all the windows broken and scorch marks from the explosion, but when they show the external shot all the windows are fixed and there were no scorch marks on the exterior superstructure.

Why weren't all 3 ships using their respective CIWS units to knock those missiles down (like they did with the final missiles launched at the NJ) in combination with countermeasures ?

So that guy on Paradise Island really just sat out the entire apocalypse playing tennis in his country club outfit.  Really ?  Or was he in on it ?

Why would Peng go to the trouble of building this secret base to build the missiles ?  Who was he hiding it from -- he could have built the base inland somewhere ?  That makes no fucking sense at all.

Edited August 15, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[TV Anonymous]

TIL that being in Naval Intelligence, one is fluent in Japanese, Vietnamese, Chinese (both Mandarin and Cantonese dialects), Tagalog and Korean. Very impressive. A feat that only few (if any) master, even those in linguistic domain as those languages are radically different.

[ottoDbusdriver]

It still amazes me that all of Southeast Asia only appears to have been mildly impacted by the Red Flu, whereas Allison Shaw (Elisabeth Rohm's character) stated that 300 million in the US died from it -- roughly 90% of the population -- leaving only about 30 million cereal-loving revolutionaries.

[oakville]

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Why would whoever the Chinese mole in the White House is have been piggybacking their secret signals on top of US Navy comms ?  
Did they only broadcast when the NJ (or one of the other ships) were in contact with the White House or were they constantly transmitting on the same frequency all the time ?  And for good measure using really weak encryption that was easily crackable by Kara -- despite uber-hacker Valerie having no success at all for weeks, Kara recalls a few things from her ASW days and cracks it in minutes.

Allison Shaw is the leader of the coup -- didn't see that coming </eyeroll>

Gotta call bullshit on those missiles from the Chinese land battery arriving at those ships in seconds -- it would taken several minutes at the minimum.   And since the missiles were tracked from the launch time, all 3 ships should have had plenty of time to knock them down.  I like how in the close up the NJ at the end of the episode has all the windows broken and scorch marks from the explosion, but when they show the external shot all the windows are fixed and there were no scorch marks on the exterior superstructure.

Why weren't all 3 ships using their respective CIWS units to knock those missiles down (like they did with the final missiles launched at the NJ) in combination with countermeasures ?

So that guy on Paradise Island really just sat out the entire apocalypse playing tennis in his country club outfit.  Really ?  Or was he in on it ?

Why would Peng go to the trouble of building this secret base to build the missiles ?  Who was he hiding it from -- he could have built the base inland somewhere ?  That makes no fucking sense at all.

Did Allison Shaw provide Peng with the locations of the ships? If so, by knocking out 2 out of 3 surviving navy ships. it's easier to discredit the US President & have the USA breakup so that the regional governors can control things. What a mess!. This episode was amazing. I had a feeling that Shaw had ulterior motives but I didn't think she would go this far. The US President Oliver is now essentially under House arrest. Chandler is lucky that his sidekick is fluent in so many languages.

I don't understand Peng's strategy. Most of Asia would have been just as ecimated by the flu as China. Why wipe out Vietnam & Korea?

[Raja]

2 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

 

Why would Peng go to the trouble of building this secret base to build the missiles ?  Who was he hiding it from -- he could have built the base inland somewhere ?  That makes no fucking sense at all.

And why restore a 60 year old US Army base as a museum piece complete with old US jeeps

[thuganomics85]

Hee, I knew it!  Allison/Elizabeth Rohm was true villain behind it, while Nestor Serrano's more openly hostile character was just a red herring.  I don't think they said it yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if she actually had Michner killed, and the whole suicide was a fake.  And it sounds like she basically wants to forgo any time of government and just keep the territories governing himself.  But she's also working for the Chinese too, since that was what was going on with the whole code thing?  I'm guessing Foster is going to end up teaming up with that reporter to try and bring them down.  There has to be a reason they focused so much on that character.

Either way, thanks to this betrayal, Chandler and the gang got arguably their biggest ass-kicking yet, although, no surprise, the Nathan James and it's crew don't suffer many casualties; it's the other two ships that get fucked up.  I'm guessing the other captain who survived is going to end up being a problem.  He clearly didn't look happy over them getting their information from Takehaya.

I should have know it was a set-up, as soon as it was revealed that the Chinese left all that stuff for them to find, since Peng knows Sasha is on their team, and she apparently can speak every language known to mankind.  Hell, she's probably fluent in Dothraki!

[Raja]

2 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

 

Gotta call bullshit on those missiles from the Chinese land battery arriving at those ships in seconds -- it would taken several minutes at the minimum.   And since the missiles were tracked from the launch time, all 3 ships should have had plenty of time to knock them down.  I like how in the close up the NJ at the end of the episode has all the windows broken and scorch marks from the explosion, but when they show the external shot all the windows are fixed and there were no scorch marks on the exterior superstructure.

Why weren't all 3 ships using their respective CIWS units to knock those missiles down (like they did with the final missiles launched at the NJ) in combination with countermeasures ?

 

Not just the close range systems the entire point of the ship was to protect carrier task forces from attacks larger than that at long medium and finally point blank range the CIWS handles. They were already at general quarters preparing to shoot when the first missiles were detected. I guess they spent to much time playing SEAL

[dirtydi]

I knew it was Allison, but I want her dead, dead, dead.  Kara has to do it or the new president.

 I wondered where O 'Connor was, good to see him.

Edited August 16, 2016 by dirtydi

[omnione]

I pegged Shaw as leading the coup after episode 8 when signs of a conspiracy were mentioned.  The showrunners made it a bit too obvious by making Rivera too much of an antagonist with  Shaw being relatively reserved.

I think part of Shaw's plan was to take out Chandler.  Chandler is a threat to her "presidency".  Perhaps she's teaming up with Peng to help eliminate a rival.  She helps set Chandler and the NJ up thousands of miles away while she takes over operations in the U.S.  Par for the course in this show means that Chandler has to survive return and kick some behinds.  Enter Kara Green being written into a domestic-based role.

I also had the same issues about the ambush.  I agree that the ships should've had time to react better.  My first theory is that there were moles on the other ships too (possibly implied by the episode 10 trailer).  But it seems like a stretch that such moles could delay the ships' countermeasures to that degree.   I remember that seemingly random scene on the deck where Eric Miller ran into a friend who managed to get transferred off the destroyed third ship just a week before the attack.  Still, such a plot is a style similar to a 24 storyline and atypical for this show thus far.  But it could explain how the NJ was the only ship to react and respond to the ambush in a manner consistent with basic naval principles.

Peng's motives for wiping out Japan, Vietnam, and Korea seems like basic global domination motives so far.  Wipe out the rivals to take over their land and resources.  Shaw probably isn't too concerned about Peng targeting the U.S.  I imagine that the surviving Americans are immune to the green mist.  The U.S. probably has enough nukes to keep Peng at bay should he want to expand his influence.

Overall, I do like the approach to this post-apocalyptic world in this show.  Many post-apocalypse movies and shows depict a ruined and irreparable world ruled by anarchy and warlords.  In this show, the world and its advances in technology is salvageable but the rebuilding process is problematic.  I had light concerns about the rebuild process being too smooth and quick, taking the significance away from the NJ truly being the Last Ship.  Now, the NJ seems like the last ship once again with the coup in America on one side, Chinese forces hunting them from the other side, and fellow sailors taking over the ship (per ep 10 trailer).

[TV Anonymous]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

Not just the close range systems the entire point of the ship was to protect carrier task forces from attacks larger than that at long medium and finally point blank range the CIWS handles. They were already at general quarters preparing to shoot when the first missiles were detected. I guess they spent to much time playing SEAL

No kidding. The Arleigh-Burke class is equipped with Aegis Combat System. It has multiple-layers of anti-air defenses. Not only to defense the ship herself, but her whole task force.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Thank goodness Pang has not one sub.  LMAO.

I knew it was gonna get real when Chandler's team could not hit the Rat Patrol Jeep despite at least three cracks at it.  It was the worst shooting, by far, by any good guys thus far.

I truly loved the exposition by Allison.  Everything she described was dead on.  Her means suck, but darned if she isn't right about the big picture.  It is awesome that we finally saw Damocles' sword in St. Louis.  The USA was hanging by a thread.

The writers now have license to do just about anything and go just about anywhere.  Here's hoping they use some restraint. 

[JackONeill]

I normally don't get too upset with such things, but doesn't Kara have a baby? Didn't I hear something, though, about her having parents. Yeah, yeah, I know this is a drama show and it IS fiction, but it would be kind of hard to all of sudden become deep undercover super spy WITH a newborn?

(Although with this baby and Judith over on The Walking Dead, I guess that means we might be watching these shows for a long time, except we'll be watching the continuing adventures of the kids.)

[Tarasme]

So who's gonna tell the NJ, and how, about the coup? Unless Mrs. Green's able to get a message to them (not sure who controls what satellite nor how easy getting an FM radio message half way around the world will be), wouldn't all remaining naval officers be compelled to follow whatever orders come out of StL?

If NJ does get the message about a coup- does the dissolution of a sovereign federal government leave those officers to their own devices?

[xaxat]

I thought it was a decent episode, but it took too long to get to this point. And the whole genocide plot isn't working for me. Conquer the rest of Asia? With what army? But I can McGuffin all of that.

21 minutes ago, Tarasme said:

If NJ does get the message about a coup- does the dissolution of a sovereign federal government leave those officers to their own devices?

Tom Chandler: "Aww crap! I've got to restore democracy in America again?"

10 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I truly loved the exposition by Allison.  Everything she described was dead on.  Her means suck, but darned if she isn't right about the big picture.

I've been waiting for the writers to give Elizabeth Rohm something to do, and she sold the hell out of her little speech. 

14 hours ago, Raja said:

And why restore a 60 year old US Army base as a museum piece complete with old US jeeps

And ice cream trucks!

15 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

TIL that being in Naval Intelligence, one is fluent in Japanese, Vietnamese, Chinese (both Mandarin and Cantonese dialects), Tagalog and Korean. Very impressive. A feat that only few (if any) master, even those in linguistic domain as those languages are radically different.

One of the things I enjoyed about the first two seasons was how they portrayed the crew of the Nathan James. Each sailor (and Rachel Scott) contributed by being very good at a particular skill and seeing each of them do that one skill really well added depth to a pretty big cast of characters.

And along comes Sasha, who can apparently do anything. Which is really annoying. If Scott had been as super competent as Sasha, the mystery of the plague would have been solved before they left the ice cap.

[Netfoot]

The only thing that came as a surprise was that the President of a post-apocalyptic America, doesn't have a 1911 in the drawer of his desk.  

 

Now we get to see how Chandler, standing on the deck of a warship, gets to deal with matters in St. Louis, nearly 1,000 km from the sea!  (And no, the Mississippi won't help at all.)

[ottoDbusdriver]

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Now we get to see how Chandler, standing on the deck of a warship, gets to deal with matters in St. Louis, nearly 1,000 km from the sea!  (And no, the Mississippi won't help at all.)

The whole "sailing around South America since the Panama Canal is probably still out of commission" might add a couple of months to the trip to sail back to St. Louis.

[Netfoot]

But is it physically possible to sail to St. Louis?  It's a land-locked city!

[BasilSeal]

18 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

 I don't think they said it yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if she actually had Michner killed, and the whole suicide was a fake

I think she pretty much implies this when she tells notpresident fat bloke to play ball or end up like Michener.

 

34 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

The whole "sailing around South America since the Panama Canal is probably still out of commission" might add a couple of months to the trip to sail back to St. Louis.

He's now got extra crew rescued from the damaged ship. So he could leave Slattery, or even the spare captain in command of the NJ and take some of his key crew members back to the US by some other means, find a plane perhaps, and someone who knows how to fly it, but let's face it, Sasha probably got a commercial pilots license during her weekends off, she can do everything else.

Obviously the situation with Peng isn't yet resolved, so the question is will he leave some of the team to sort that whilst he heads back to America, by some means, or will he solve the war with China personally before returning to America to restore democracy for the second time?

either way, i'm predicting a reappearance of Tex for next week's episode, also Cara teaming up with annoying reporter, and possibly a very flexible childcare provider as well.

[raven]

45 minutes ago, BasilSeal said:

I think she pretty much implies this when she tells notpresident fat bloke to play ball or end up like Michener.

I never bought Michener's "suicide"; he was just not the type.   At this point most people probably have a similar story and would be more forgiving - or honestly just wouldn't care as they worry about things like food and law and order.   I expected him more to figuratively throw himself on his sword, ask forgiveness and understanding and then continue to try to govern.    Elizabeth Rohm & co leaked the story to the reporter to give a reason for Michener to kill himself so no one would question his death. 

Except for being used by the bad guys, I kind of like the reporter (I'm not a fan of hiding info) so I hope he does team with Cara and cute code breaking guy (I obviously don't pay enough attention to get the names though). I'm a little worried about code breaking guy in that nest of vipers.  I hope the new President will try to stand up for himself. I don't ascribe any altruism to Rohm & co, this is a grab for power for its own sake IMO.

Quote

If Scott had been as super competent as Sasha, the mystery of the plague would have been solved before they left the ice cap.

Ugh, SCS with her super competent ponytail really bugs.   Go away Sasha.

[Raja]

4 hours ago, Netfoot said:

But is it physically possible to sail to St. Louis?  It's a land-locked city!

It's not landlocked it is on the banks of one of the world's great rivers and the port can handle traffic much larger than an Arliegh Burke destroyer. We ended the last season with Nathan James using the last of its fuel going up the Mississippi River getting to St Louis

[BasilSeal]

7 hours ago, raven said:

I never bought Michener's "suicide"; he was just not the type.   At this point most people probably have a similar story and would be more forgiving - or honestly just wouldn't care as they worry about things like food and law and order.   I expected him more to figuratively throw himself on his sword, ask forgiveness and understanding and then continue to try to govern.    Elizabeth Rohm & co leaked the story to the reporter to give a reason for Michener to kill himself so no one would question his death.

I think this is probably spot on about what has happened, someone was feeding reporter guy information from the start, they've also been trying to kill chandler and co from the outset by telling Peng where he and the NJ were going to be next.

Interesting to see how the rest of this plays out, there's still a few episodes worth of stuff left to do to stop Peng, one would have thought. It won't be in chandler's nature to delegate that whilst he goes back to help Cara and notpresident fat bloke. As Alison and the revolutionaries are in league with Peng, surely they'll make the president order Chandler to stop fighting their new best mate, so Chandler is going to have to convince everyone, including the captain and sailors from the other ship who've not served under him, to defy an executive order from the President.

Also, when Chandler does go back to the US, it's one thing to physically retake the new White House and free the president, but actually restoring federal control when the country is being effectively run by regional war lords will be a different matter. My guess would be this series will end with them retaking the White House but with the country effectively in civil war, which will be the plot line for series 4. (not sure how the ship will figure in this though)

[JackONeill]

3 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

My guess would be this series will end with them retaking the White House but with the country effectively in civil war, which will be the plot line for series 4. (not sure how the ship will figure in this though)

Maybe they'll portage the NJ from state to state. Yeah, true, not as galmorous as seeing a ship steam in on its own power. But, hey, we all have to make sacrifices for our country.

[Tarasme]

9 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

I think this is probably spot on about what has happened, someone was feeding reporter guy information from the start, they've also been trying to kill chandler and co from My guess would be this series will end with them retaking the White House but with the country effectively in civil war, which will be the plot line for series 4. (not sure how the ship will figure in this though)

Ahhh you British people (will I get killed if you're Canadian?)-- my first thought upon reading "this series will end" was "Wait! Does Basilseal know something I don't know?!? Has the series been cancelled so that season 3 is going to be a series finale?!?"

Then. In the fine art of reading entire posts. I realized my error. Whew.

[Netfoot]

16 hours ago, Raja said:

It's not landlocked it is on the banks of one of the world's great rivers

According to my understanding, the Mississippi shipping lanes are maintained at a minimum 45' depth by dredging, all the way up to Baton Rouge.  From there on up, the lanes are not dredged deeper than 15'.   That warship must have a draft of 28-30' at least.

So...

[BasilSeal]

6 hours ago, Tarasme said:

Ahhh you British people (will I get killed if you're Canadian?)-- my first thought upon reading "this series will end" was "Wait! Does Basilseal know something I don't know?!? Has the series been cancelled so that season 3 is going to be a series finale?!?"

Then. In the fine art of reading entire posts. I realized my error. Whew.

Yes, i'm in the UK, hence the series / season confusion, TLS has been renewed for a fourth season, can't help wondering how many more seasons there can be after that, surely there can only be so many global disasters that Captain Chandler can fix via the medium of shooting people and blowing shit up?

[iMonrey]

I won't be back for a fourth season.

I don't understand how or why there are all these other ships all of a sudden. Isn't this show called The Last Ship? It's not called The Second To Last Ship or The Third To Last Ship or One of the Last Ships. Wasn't that the whole premise? That the crew of the Nathan James was spared from the virus because they happened to be in the arctic circle when the disease hit? Where have all these other ship crews come from that are manning these other ships?

On top of that, there's a serious disconnect between the two stories they're trying to tell. Obviously they have to keep the Nathan James relevant so on the one hand you've got this ship tooling around in the China seas fighting pirates and evading mines and tangling with Chinese espionage. But back home you've got some sort of post-apocalyptic world-building story that has nothing to do with the Nathan James. Furthermore it's clear that what's happening in the United States would render what the Nathan James is doing over in China irrelevant. Wouldn't the Nathan James be better served stationed at home for defense?

The problem is that isn't very exciting so they have to invent another action adventure for the Nathan James. That being the case this coup d'etat story in the U.S. should have been dropped and the state of America should have been marginalized so the reigning government could be more invested in whatever the NJ is trying to accomplish overseas. The way it stands I don't understand why anyone in the US would give a damn what's going on in China. If everything in the US was more or less stable, then maybe I could see where Americans would be more concerned with China wiping out entire nations even if the US was already safe from the virus.

[BasilSeal]

42 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The way it stands I don't understand why anyone in the US would give a damn what's going on in China. If everything in the US was more or less stable, then maybe I could see where Americans would be more concerned with China wiping out entire nations even if the US was already safe from the virus.

Call me a pinko liberal, but i'm not sure only being able to buy one box of cheerios a week would prevent me from caring about genocide.

[iMonrey]

But Americans at this point don't know the president of China is committing genocide. I'm not even sure what they know at this point aside from the fact that some navy personnel were kidnapped by Japanese pirates. If I'm in America and there are riots and looting going on because there are rations, I'm not particularly interested in some navy ship over near China, or even what's going on in general anywhere in Europe or Asia. That's just human nature. The country is falling apart and now there's been a coup to divide the country into regional governments . . . do I really give a damn what's going on in China? I think not.

[xaxat]

2 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

Call me a pinko liberal, but i'm not sure only being able to buy one box of cheerios a week would prevent me from caring about genocide.

That might be your stance, but why would people in the US care about genocide in another country when their own country has just lost ninety percent of its population? 

I'd want the Cheerios. Because that might be the only thing I get to eat for the day.

[Netfoot]

6 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

Call me a pinko liberal, but i'm not sure only being able to buy one box of cheerios a week would prevent me from caring about genocide.

You might change your mind, if that box of Cheerios was the only thing you got to eat for the entire week.

[BasilSeal]

On 17/08/2016 at 9:55 PM, xaxat said:

On 17/08/2016 at 7:11 PM, BasilSeal said:

 

That might be your stance, but why would people in the US care about genocide in another country when their own country has just lost ninety percent of its population? 

I've no doubt that many people wouldn't give a shit about foreigners dying even if 90% of their own population hadn't already died because it's human nature to be selfish, that doesn't mean that if some disaster did happen that those people who did have a modicum of compassion and empathy would suddenly lose it as well.

In this scenario, the plague is no longer a threat, and law and order has for the most part been restored, hell, there's even a national news network  to broadcast dirt and gossip on the president. It's not like people are fighting for their day to day existence anymore. It's not like a navy war ship would be much use dispersing a food riot anyway,  so why not have what's left of the navy distributing the cure worldwide? if they have the means and the resources to do so then it's certainly the humanitarian thing to do. From a more cynical point of view there's certainly a major soft power element to America saving everyone else's arse, and a hard power element to not allowing a hostile dictator to take over China and potentially pose a major threat to the US. These things may have no immediate bearing on the average man in the street, but that didn't stop America from fighting arguably far more pointless wars in the past.

Edited August 19, 2016 by BasilSeal
make first paragraph more clear

[BasilSeal]

4 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

You might change your mind, if that box of Cheerios was the only thing you got to eat for the entire week.

If being a bit peckish made you stop caring about millions of innocent people dying, then i suspect that you probably weren't that bothered about it when you had a full belly either.

[Netfoot]

54 minutes ago, BasilSeal said:

If being a bit peckish made you stop caring about millions of innocent people dying...

Well, here's where I'm at:  If I have the choice between innocent millions dying, or me dying - or my family...  well, those innocent millions better say goodbye.

When people are struggling for survival, high principles tend to lose their importance.  Instead, you club baby seals to death and eat them.  When you get "a bit peckish".

[Lonesome Rhodes]

One thing I would seriously question is the use of Chandler.  He is the hero of heroes and he is dang competent.  A true patriot.

 

So, at home, establishing order and a Rule of Law would be everything.  This no-name political squish ascends to POTUS and I am supposed to have faith?  Nuh uh.  Now...make Chandler the Czar of instituting order and a workable martial judicial system until such time as the familiar constitutional offices are up and able to re-establish individual liberty?  I'd certainly be open to that.

Nope.  Off to Asia.  Ya can't fix stoopid.  

I'm no xenophobe.  I'm no fantasist either.  The dystopian America which would result from a catastrophe like this would require a whole lot of self-sacrifice and not a small measure of authority to make sure those who would refuse to accept less don't simply take more.  We would not have the ability to simultaneously be the world's policeman, and our own policeman.

Now that we know there were traitorous elements at the highest levels, do you believe Peng blew up the plane, or that it was an inside job?  Did Peng do it at the behest of the U.S. traitors?  Let's see if the writers choose to close this circle for us.

[BasilSeal]

14 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Well, here's where I'm at:  If I have the choice between innocent millions dying, or me dying - or my family...  well, those innocent millions better say goodbye.

but people aren't fighting for survival in The Last Ship's version of the apocalypse, they're getting dicked off because President Michener passed some laws that stopped them from squatting in rock star mansions and stock piling breakfast cereal.

 

14 hours ago, Netfoot said:

When people are struggling for survival, high principles tend to lose their importance.  Instead, you club baby seals to death and eat them.  When you get "a bit peckish".

Baby seals may be cute but they're not people, i might be prepared to kill and eat cute baby animals in order to ensure my survival, but i'd like to think i'd draw the line at letting the population of an entire country die so i could exercise my god given right to buy as much goddammed breakfast cereal as i wanted.

[BasilSeal]

13 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Now that we know there were traitorous elements at the highest levels, do you believe Peng blew up the plane, or that it was an inside job?  Did Peng do it at the behest of the U.S. traitors?  Let's see if the writers choose to close this circle for us.

I think it was implicit in the extremely laboured scene where Kara deciphered the coded coordinates and we had a flash back to every incident that they represented, (whilst the audience shouted "for god's sake, cut to the last one" at the screen), that the white house mole had been working in conjunction with peng to thwart Chandler at every turn.

One of the flash backs was of the kidnapping, so presumably they had somehow tipped Takahya off about the nightclub as well. The aim has presumably been to weaken and discredit Mitchener.

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, BasilSeal said:

but people aren't fighting for survival in The Last Ship's version of the apocalypse, they're getting dicked off because President Michener passed some laws that stopped them from squatting in rock star mansions and stock piling breakfast cereal.

 

Baby seals may be cute but they're not people, i might be prepared to kill and eat cute baby animals in order to ensure my survival, but i'd like to think i'd draw the line at letting the population of an entire country die so i could exercise my god given right to buy as much goddammed breakfast cereal as i wanted.

But look back at our earlier posts.  It wasn't about squatting in rock star mansions.  Nor was it about buying as much cereal as you wanted.  It was about "only being able to buy one box of cheerios a week" (emphasis mine) and how that would be very significant "if that box of Cheerios was the only thing you got to eat for the entire week" which I think pretty clearly implies the edge of starvation.  So, no, I don't support the idea of ignoring the plight of millions of foreigners, so I can revel in excess.  But yes, I would be primarily concerned about my own survival (and that of my immediate family, friends and neighbors) rather than that of distant strangers, no matter how numerous.

[iMonrey]

I think the point (to me, anyway) is that there are two disparate stories going on here because the writers don't know what else to do. They need to keep the Nathan James in some kind of action-adventure story so they're out tangling with pirates and other baddies, but the writers (or whoever) apparently didn't think that was enough, so they included this power struggle back home among an ill-defined governmental structure, with additional vagueness about the plight of the remaining US population. 

I don't know how much TNT you watch, but the promos for this show (which have not changed since the season started) all start out by saying "The virus has mutated," followed by a lot of explosions and gunfire, etc. But that's not what this season has been about. Seemingly, even TNT doesn't really know or care what the story is about. It feels like the show is just making up whatever shit they can to keep the action going. 

Personally I think the story that's going on with the Nathan James in Asia is strong enough (or at least has the potential to be) to carry the show. It's the "meanwhile back in America" story that's dragging the show down and feels out of place. The world-building, post apocalyptic story is a different show than the adventures of a naval ship in foreign waters. The two ideas aren't really meshing.

[JackONeill]

48 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Personally I think the story that's going on with the Nathan James in Asia is strong enough (or at least has the potential to be) to carry the show. It's the "meanwhile back in America" story that's dragging the show down and feels out of place. The world-building, post apocalyptic story is a different show than the adventures of a naval ship in foreign waters. The two ideas aren't really meshing.

I agree with this. Not that it's important but I think the original pitch from TPTB was for a one-season show.  When the bean counters saw it was moderately (and that's all it takes nowadays) successful the business people gave it a green light for more. The creative people then, in my opinion, went, "Uh...what now?"

Last season, except for the part that touched on Rachel's research, was mostly rubbish and showed that the show outside of its strictly conceived guidelines was a mess.

This season is even worse.

As many have said, the 800 pound gorilla in the room is...well, the Last Ship. The NJ is a star if the show. So the problem is if you want to ONLY focus on rebuilding the US, what do you do with it, except, like with the Enterprise sometimes, just use it as a way to ferry your characters from A to B.

Another problem, and it's one I don't know how they are going handle, is that Slattery is THE captain of the NJ, not Chandler. Why in the world did TPTB create that problem? When the current dust up with E Rohm gets resolved will Chandler be made President (assuming the other guy gets "suicided" like Michener)? I'm not sure if the actor will want that. Part of the fun of being an actor is playing with guns, not getting worked up about people's Cheerios.

[BasilSeal]

2 hours ago, JackONeill said:

When the current dust up with E Rohm gets resolved will Chandler be made President (assuming the other guy gets "suicided" like Michener)?

My guess would be that they won't kill of president fat bloke off, the focus on the next episodes will be returning him to his rightful office. If he was killed off, then they couldn't just declare Chandler president, the post would go to whoever fat bloke has nominated as his vice president. however, the logical conclusion here is for there to eventually be an election, where Chandler would be a shoe in for the job.

 

2 hours ago, JackONeill said:

I'm not sure if the actor will want that. Part of the fun of being an actor is playing with guns, not getting worked up about people's Cheerios.

Indeed, but being head of th military hasn't stopped chandler from leading commando missions himself, so why would being POTUS disuade him from leading from the front?

Let's face it, if Chandler was president instead of Obama, he wouldn't have been watching them take down Bin Laden on a live video feed, he'd have been chucking the first grenade through the window of Osama's compound himself.

[BasilSeal]

15 hours ago, Netfoot said:

But look back at our earlier posts.  It wasn't about squatting in rock star mansions.  Nor was it about buying as much cereal as you wanted.  It was about "only being able to buy one box of cheerios a week" (emphasis mine) and how that would be very significant "if that box of Cheerios was the only thing you got to eat for the entire week" which I think pretty clearly implies the edge of starvation

I fairness, i think the root of this discussion was whether the plot device of having the NJ sailing around Asia distributing the cure and playing at Team America: World police is a credible development. My personal view is that there are both moral and pragmatic reasons for them spreading the cure beyond the US, so i think in the context of the story it is credible.

There's some doubt about what state the US is currently in, because the series has been sketchy on the details as to what's actually going on outside the confines of the new White House. We know there's at least one national news channel, and they seem to be free to broadcast what they want, we hear there's food riots, or that riots are possible, that the banks have been closed, (you'd wonder how much a fiat currency like the dollar would retain any value in such a world but apparently there's still people using the dollar as legal tender). We also see Miller's mum carrying large bags of groceries to her car when she's harassed by dodgy reporter, so we can presume that there is still stuff in the supermarkets where she lives at least, and petrol available for her car too.

It's a fair point that if you were starving your primary concern would be for you and yours, but in the show's universe at the moment,  from what we can see, though there may be some hardships,  people aren't starving or fighting for their lives on a daily basis. I think in such a scenario, those who were so inclined would have the leeway to feel a bit of compassion for others, and that not everyone in the US would consider the NJ's mission to spread the cure over seas to be a bad thing.

Edited August 19, 2016 by BasilSeal

[xaxat]

5 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

There's some doubt about what state the US is currently in, because the series has been sketchy on the details as to what's actually going on outside the confines of the new White House.

This is a big problem with respect to the plot. As you noted, it affects how one views the propriety of sending the NJ (and Shackleton and another ship) to Asia, and it also has an affect on how one views the coup.

If things are going poorly, then the coup plotters could be seen as relatively patriotic types who want to rescue what's left of the country from an ineffectual President who has devoted precious resources to a worthless international intervention. If things are going well and Michener was able to restore basic functionality, then it's just a cold blooded power play.

Given the lack of info my instinct is to go with "things are pretty crappy". 

How much damage did that battle do to what's left of the US fleet? Looking at Wikipedia, there are currently about 230 commissioned ships. Using the "ninety percent" to get a (very) rough estimate, the country lost almost ten percent of the fleet.

(I actually though creating a naval group for Chandler to command was a pretty smart way of giving him someone to order around now that he is no longer the commanding officer of the NJ. Then they got rid of the naval group.)

Edited August 19, 2016 by xaxat

[Netfoot]

9 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

There's some doubt about what state the US is currently in, because the series has been sketchy on the details as to what's actually going on outside the confines of the new White House.

Granted, we don't know, because we're not being told.  Or at least, conditions are implied as harsh, but external scenes (such as when Marissa Neitling/Kara Foster slinks away from Whitehouse-II) show things as looking quite normal.  People walking, cars driving, the streets are clean, and everything looks in order.  

[BasilSeal]

4 hours ago, xaxat said:

How much damage did that battle do to what's left of the US fleet? Looking at Wikipedia, there are currently about 230 commissioned ships. Using the "ninety percent" to get a (very) rough estimate, the country lost almost ten percent of the fleet.

Again, we're totally lacking in information on this one, but you'd think that the limiting factor in The Last Ship universe would be sailors, rather than ships, because though the virus could have taken out entire crews, in theory the ships would still be intact. though it's possible that commanding officers who knew they and their entire crews were dying would have scuttled their ships if they weren't in US territorial waters, to prevent the ship falling into the hands of a potential enemy. Surely though there are ships in US ports that could be recommissioned if you had the crews to sail them.

[Dowel Jones]

On 8/17/2016 at 1:55 PM, xaxat said:

I'd want the Cheerios. Because that might be the only thing I get to eat for the day.

But only if there is enough dairy production to provide the milk. :)

 

On 8/18/2016 at 9:27 AM, BasilSeal said:

we had a flash back to every incident that they represented,

And Kara had an amazing ability to visualize exactly what was happening 7,000 miles away!

So, as to the gunfight at the OK Corral.  Good move, Capn' Tom.  Lead your guys into a depression in the ground where anyone can pop over the top and gun you down.  The fact that they survived it indicates that the Chinese threw their JV squad (sorry) at them.  As an aside, speaking from experience, it takes a bit more than a simple swipe with 18" boltcutters to break a cow chain around a gate. 

Good for Kara taking the Secretary's cell phone with her.  That will come up again.

Let's take Allison's strategic objective to its illogical conclusion.  Putting all that power in the hands of a few regional despots governors with variable loyalties will likely result not in an orderly construction of a new nation, but a continuing battle between provincials for control of land and resources, severely reducing the US ability to protect itself in the coming world.  It would become what Revolution should have been.  For example, look at the continual history of wars on the European Continent from the 15th-19th Centuries, as kingdoms, duchys, principalities, and empires all fought to establish themselves.  Is this what she wants, or has even thought about?

[BasilSeal]

6 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Good for Kara taking the Secretary's cell phone with her.  That will come up again

Good spot, i hadn't noticed that. He was always playing with his phone during scenes with Kara and President Fat Bloke so whoever h was texting will likely be significant.

 

7 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Let's take Allison's strategic objective to its illogical conclusion.  Putting all that power in the hands of a few regional despots governors with variable loyalties will likely result not in an orderly construction of a new nation, but a continuing battle between provincials for control of land and resources, severely reducing the US ability to protect itself in the coming world.  It would become what Revolution should have been.  For example, look at the continual history of wars on the European Continent from the 15th-19th Centuries, as kingdoms, duchys, principalities, and empires all fought to establish themselves.  Is this what she wants, or has even thought about?

If Alison's goal is to build a personal power base then you're right, her move makes no sense as the coup is intended to give control to the disparate 'regions', but she doesn't have her own region, her power was tied up in the federal govt which the coup is intending to abolish, so what's in it for her?

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Allison's treachery makes sense if 1) She never believed the center would hold.  (I believe this is true, as depicted so far.)  and 2)  She is assured big payoff in power and/or goods by traitorous Governors.