S04.E10: Who's In Charge?

[MMLEsq]

Quote

The Bates kids are in charge while Kelly Jo and Gil take a much needed couples vacation to Niagara Falls. But when some of the kids get sick will they be able to handle the pressures without Mom and Dad around? Then some of the Bates kids head over to Zach and Whitney’s house for a rare treat…movie night!

Just setting up a thread for tonight's episode...

[Squirrely]

Well, they tried to explain those emaciated horses that brought on a lot of criticism awhile back, but they failed miserably. Even if they are rescues, that doesn't excuse riding them around and scaring the shit out of them like they did, especially with the poor Shetland Pony (the scene I'm referencing was aired and then cut from all subsequent airings of Bringing up Bates or Eleventy Kids, one). They proved back then that animals are just things to them. Hopefully some of the kids are learning a better way. 

Aw Gil! You almost wished the right kid a happy birthday! 

So sad that these kids have to wait for a sibling to get married to have a sleepover somewhere. Any other family friends all have a zillion kids too and they have to travel in packs, so they almost never get some quiet or solitude. I bet they feel really special when they get time at Zack's and Erin's homes.

I worry for Erin. I sincerely hope she doesn't become a martyr to the quiverfull cause one day.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Squirrely

[Tdoc72]

Squirrely....there was a little part (maybe a bumper before or after a commercial) where Dr. Vick is saying/asking if this is the 2nd child of 19, like her mother, and Erin says no, it's the 2nd of two.  So maybe she and Chad realized that she will be in grave danger if they continue to have children and are limiting (either chemically or permanently) their family size.  If so, good for them.  Carson & Brooklyn deserve to have a mother to raise them vs. a martyr to the cause.

[IndianPaintbrush]

1 minute ago, Tdoc72 said:

Squirrely....there was a little part (maybe a bumper before or after a commercial) where Dr. Vick is saying/asking if this is the 2nd child of 19, like her mother, and Erin says no, it's the 2nd of two.  So maybe she and Chad realized that she will be in grave danger if they continue to have children and are limiting (either chemically or permanently) their family size.  If so, good for them.  Carson & Brooklyn deserve to have a mother to raise them vs. a martyr to the cause.

Weird, my DVR didn't record this episode for some reason.  But I really, really hope Erin is serious.

[andromeda331]

So do I.  I really hope Erin is serious.  It would be crazy to keep risking her own life and risk leaving her kids without a mother.  But I worry she'll keep having kids that instead of seeing all of the danger around her pregnancies and labors, that they just see that it worked twice and keep pressing their luck with more pregnancies. 

[tabloidlover]

I believed her when she said Brooklyn is the 2nd of two.  I think she and Chad are done.

[Squirrely]

I will be shocked if they are done. I think "two of two" just means she doesn't expect to have 18. The Bateses are just as loony as the Duggars when it comes to being fruitful and multplying, and everything else. They've simply learned how to present themselves in a better light to the public, which is actually more dangerous. These are anti-choice people who think birth control belongs in the same category as abortion, so abstaining is their only option. Chad might love her enough to do that, if he can overcome his fundie upbringing.

[BitterApple]

I'm hoping Erin is smart enough to get on some form of birth control, but I'm dubious. After all, Brooklyn was a "surprise." 

[Squirrely]

It's easy for them to say they don't follow Gothard. After all, he's not the figure head of ATI anymore. It doesn't mean they've abandoned the principles they were raised on. 

But time will tell. There's no way to know for sure. I want to be proven wrong. ;)

[Mountainair]

All I know is that my heart skipped a beat and it took me a minute to recover when one of the kids arrived at Whitney's house and took Bradley from her arms and near about dropped him on the floor. She did a double take too but damn! My mother reflex works on tv kids too! 

[Clemgo3165]

There are other, more permanent forms of birth control. Having been through the number of miscarriages she has plus the danger of additional pregnancies, I would think they'd pick an early stopping point rather than risk any more danger to Erin or risk for their family. 

[BitterApple]

50 minutes ago, Mountainair said:

All I know is that my heart skipped a beat and it took me a minute to recover when one of the kids arrived at Whitney's house and took Bradley from her arms and near about dropped him on the floor. She did a double take too but damn! My mother reflex works on tv kids too! 

That's one of the things that annoys me about both the Bates and the Duggar kids, the way they just rush up on the grandkids and rip them out of their mother's arms. It's like damn, give the baby some space. Bradley is an easy going toddler, but a lot of little ones get freaked out by stuff like that. Whitney is definitely a trooper, though. I couldn't be married into one of those kinds of families because my mouth would get me into serious trouble. 

[Tdoc72]

It doesn't have to be chemical or barrier birth control. It could be a tubal ligation or Chad could get snipped. 

[Calibabydolly]

Nice spilling water all over the new black leather couch! I could see Whitney and Zach were both holding back yelling or something when the wild boys did that. Also that was sure a nice infomercial for DiGiorno pizzas! Seriously folks, Gil must have told them they needed to make a bit more money off this episode. Possibly why they looked the other way on the couch spill???

[Sew Sumi]

5 hours ago, auntl said:

I believe that they will stop at two. Erin said that she and Chad no longer follow Gothard. I hope that she was telling the truth on both counts - no more babies and no more Gothardism.

That was a carefully executed statement. Gil and Dr. Paine ousted Gothard, but they sit at the head of the organization that sells his teachings. They can easily say that they follow IBLP, because Gothard is no longer at the head of it, but it's the same shit, different day.

I hope Erin wasn't lying about the 2 and done. It seems like these pregnancies really do take their toll on her. She is pretty close to inducement; she said 36 weeks a while back, which is about where she is now. Brooklyn is on countdown! 

Edited August 5, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, Calibabydolly said:

Nice spilling water all over the new black leather couch! I could see Whitney and Zach were both holding back yelling or something when the wild boys did that. Also that was sure a nice infomercial for DiGiorno pizzas! Seriously folks, Gil must have told them they needed to make a bit more money off this episode. Possibly why they looked the other way on the couch spill???

Not to mention, I didn't see a single "boy" offering to help Whitney with the snacks, and she's about 8 months gone. Misogyny lives! 

[IndianPaintbrush]

I have a friend who had her tubes tied after her second baby.  I can't remember if she had a c-section, but it sounded like it was a pretty simple procedure after the baby was born.  Hopefully Erin will consider this.

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I'm hoping Erin is smart enough to get on some form of birth control, but I'm dubious. After all, Brooklyn was a "surprise." 

That's what makes me suspicious too. They know how high risk her pregnancies are and yet still had a "surprise" pregnancy and so quickly after Carson's birth.  You would think they would be extremely careful. 

[cereality]

I thought the interaction with the doctor was interesting too. He said -- "remember what you said to your mom during labor, this is the 1st of 19?" And then she responded to him "or the last of 2."

I just don't believe that 2 is "enough" for a couple that was trained to believe that a woman's ONLY worth is based on the number of babies birthed. I do think reality is hitting Chad and Erin though -- that the pregnancies don't just involve shots, but a clotting disorder is dangerous to her and the baby so maybe they ARE thinking about how many times they want to take these chances. I also thought it was interesting when Kelly was gushing about Erin being pregnant she talked about how hard it was for them to sustain a pregnancy and how happy Kelly was that "they got their girl." Typically people only "worry" about whether a kid is a boy or girl if they only want 1-2 kids -- and have a preference or want 1 of each or whatever. I would think a family that's planning to have 6 or 10 or 20 is NOT worrying whether child #2 is a girl bc they know the law of large numbers dictates that they will eventually get a girl. So maybe there is something to it -- maybe Chad and Erin ARE deciding to limit family size and have even communicated that to Gil and Kelly. Yet somehow I just don't believe it'll be limited to 2. I honestly think there will be a few more "oops -- it's God's will, if he thought this were too dangerous he wouldn't have allowed conception" pregnancies; I can see them having 3 or 4 and then stopping bc of fear and/or bc a doctor tells them they really must stop.

[LoquaciousAudacity]

I really hope Chad and Erin stop at 2. It seems that the Bates kids are easier to break from the family rules when they have their own homes. Alyssa wears pants, Zach has a TV, so maybe Erin will put her health before having 19 kids. Plus, Chad is so enamored of his wife, I can see him stepping in and saying, your life is more important. I hope.

I find it interesting that Michael isn't pregnant. They've been married for a year. I had her pegged to be pregnant right away. She and Brandon have also stayed off the show for the most part. I guess they are in their own little world. 

[cereality]

At least in this family, it's not parental pressure that keeps kids living the fundie life. If Chad and Erin continue to have a dozen more kids, it'll be bc they want to/are trusting God's will etc., not bc Gil and Kelly are pressuring them to keep at it. Gil and Kelly seem like loving parents and while they may not want to go against Gothard's will, I can see them subtly saying to Chad and Erin -- you have your boy and girl, maybe that's enough given how dangerous it's been?? I don't see them being ok with Erin getting sick or worse just to have kid number 6. Of course we don't know if this is their attitude, but I think it may be bc once married and out of the house, the kids live as they like and it doesn't seem like the parents give them $hit for it. Rather they recognize these are grown ups. I mean if Gil and Kelly were SO against Zach and Whit having a TV, they certainly wouldn't be letting the pre teen boys go over there to watch. I have a feeling Zach and Whit and Alyssa and John are/have gone fundie lite and Gil and Kelly are dealing just fine.

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, LoquaciousAudacity said:

 

I find it interesting that Michael isn't pregnant. They've been married for a year. I had her pegged to be pregnant right away. She and Brandon have also stayed off the show for the most part. I guess they are in their own little world. 

Brandon doesn't strike me as having an overwhelming passionate attraction to Michael to where he wants to get it on all the time. He's probably cool with sex once a week at a regularly appointed time.

[IndianPaintbrush]

Michaela's visited the family several times.  No way would she deliberately put off getting pregnant, her whole life is about motherhood.  I suspect she's had a miscarriage or two and isn't talking about it.  Maybe she has the same condition as Erin.  At any rate, I think we'll get an announcement from her soon enough.

[BitterApple]

Yeah, I'll definitely give Zach props for starting a real career that has benefits and a retirement plan as opposed to keeping his family poverty-ridden in the name of Jesus. I also think he and Whit will keep their family size reasonable, maybe three or four kids. I think Bradley was two when Kaci was born, which is pretty typical spacing. 

The Bates kids definitely seem more aware of the financial implications of a large family in contrast to the Duggars. There's no rich Daddy to subsidize their lifestyles and I don't think Zach, Alyssa or Erin wants to go back to their "kids stacked up like firewood in a shack" days. 

[Sew Sumi]

I think Bradley's birthday is sometime in October, but at any rate, it wasn't either Kelly's or Erin's super-fertility at play. 

Given that Erin had three miscarriages before becoming pregnant with Carson in the space of less than a year, I can't fathom how they thought Brooklyn was any kind of surprise. These kids are only going to be 15 months apart. And she's on Baby Watch. She said she would be induced, and on Instagram added that they were shooting for 36 weeks, which is how far she made it with Carson. She's due 8/30, so I suspect inducement comes next week.

[SongbirdHollow]

Maybe it was a surprise because she was breastfeeding and didn't think she could get pregnant so soon.

I don't think she is under any real pressure from her parents or her religion to have more than the two and she seems like she'd be happy to stop as she doesn't look to be a fan of medical stuff. My SIL was very apprehensive about having her baby and after it was over I asked her if it was as bad as she thought. She went pale and said, "It was WORSE!!!" and she promptly had her tubes tied. LOL.

Also, I thought when Carson was born Erin said to her mom "I don't know how you did this 19 times!" not "first of 19!". Or was that Alyssa? I just don't remember Erin saying she wanted a ton of kids, especially after finding out about her clotting disorder.

[Absolom]

Erin said I don't know how you did this 19 times.

[Sew Sumi]

Yeah, that's what I remember as well. Of course, Erin had the hard, short labor in addition to the placental abrubtion, complications Kelly never had. 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I think Bradley's birthday is sometime in October, but at any rate, it wasn't either Kelly's or Erin's super-fertility at play. 

Given that Erin had three miscarriages before becoming pregnant with Carson in the space of less than a year, I can't fathom how they thought Brooklyn was any kind of surprise. These kids are only going to be 15 months apart. And she's on Baby Watch. She said she would be induced, and on Instagram added that they were shooting for 36 weeks, which is how far she made it with Carson. She's due 8/30, so I suspect inducement comes next week.

Neither can I. I want to believe Erin when she says "two of two" or she isn't having 19 kids but she still got pregnant so quickly after Carson.  I know surprises can happen but for a couple that's already had three miscarriages and then learned how the cause of them? The blood clotting and having just spent nine months having to get shots every day and still not knowing whether or not it was going to go well? That it could still go wrong during the labor and delivery for Erin and her baby? How do you know that, going through all you've gone through for one baby and then have a "surprise"? How are you not making sure to do everything not to get pregnant until your really ready? 

[Sew Sumi]

I agree. It seems that with people who have super fertility like Erin, her mother, Michelle Duggar, Jill Rod, etc., even nursing isn't stopping pregnancy. Kelly, Michelle, and now Erin, have had pregnancies less than six months after a baby was born. I remember Michelle, when pregnant with Josie, saying she knew when she was pregnant because her babies started refusing to nurse; she said her milk went "sour." And that was a pregnancy that, had it gone to term, would still have produced kids only 13 months apart. Quite a feat for someone in their early 40's. 

Erin doesn't seem to be much different at this stage. I really hope that the doctor is giving her solid advice about the very real risks vs. a reward that is not guaranteed. 

[Sew Sumi]

Erin has absolutely NO problem GETTING pregnant, as evidenced by those three miscarriages and one pregnancy (with a medical diagnosis in there as well) in less than a year's time. She was pregnant four months after her wedding, and as far as we know, that was her first miscarriage. We don't know how far along she was with these miscarriages, but I assume they were very early, like 6-8 weeks, tops. But that said, she seems to have gotten her D&Cs and been pregnant again very quickly again thereafter. 

I don't see how this is going to change unless they take conscious steps to prevent it. NFP doesn't seem to be enough for super-fertile myrtles like Erin and her mother. She's going to have to do something that goes against everything she's been taught IF she is sincere about being 2 and done. 

[Absolom]

As scared of another precipitate placental abruption as she seemed, I think Erin is going to be willing to do something more than pray or NFP to avoid all these issues.

[Sew Sumi]

I think that everyone posting here hopes you are right. 

[Absolom]

Ratings:  247K viewers and a .06 rating.

[FakeJoshDuggar]

It's amazing how one can change their "deeply held religious beliefs" when facing their daughter and grandchild dying. I think that they can turn from "birth control is abortio" to "God™ wants Erin alive to raise the babies the Lord saw fit to give her" (even though the Lord™  I can see the Bates parents giving their blessing for Erin to have her tubes tied since sperm wouldn't be hitting egg.

[Absolom]

What we need is for Erin and Chad to decide what they want without considering their parents at all.

[Sew Sumi]

With both fathers sitting on the IBLP Board, every move the family, married offspring included, makes is going to be under scrutiny from the cult members.  Chad and Erin can't escape their parents. If Erin quietly had her tubes tied after Brooklyn was born, the last thing they will do is share that information. I also don't expect them to tell us that they are using any form of birth control, even if they are on the down-low. That just *isn't done* in their world, and even with Erin's medical issues, I don't expect to hear them say anything that doesn't conform to the Party Line. 

Zach had a couple cop drama, rated R movies on that shelf above his 60" TV, but unless you froze the frame (as someone did), they will have missed those titles. I know I did; I saw "Cowboy" something, Andy Griffith, and a couple other more acceptable titles when they panned the shot.