S01.E05: The Season of the Witch

[kay1864]

The only way I see this resolving in 3 episodes is if Duane is provably the killer.  But how could Box (if he were so inclined) prove this after all this time?  Unless Duane tossed his blood-stained clothes in the hamper.  The knife is presumably clean by now.

Motive?  Teaching her a lesson for fraternizing with Ay-rabs, I guess?

[kay1864]

Also, doesn't it seem odd that the guards supervising the visitation turn a blind eye, but the guards frisking the returning prisoners don't?

[stagmania]

On 8/8/2016 at 7:38 PM, izabella said:

Duane Reade....is Duane a drug dealer?  Maybe that's why he goes by the name of a drug store?

It seems like it's his legal name. As someone who works with public records and sees a lot of bizarre or "joke" names, it's surprisingly plausible.

On 8/9/2016 at 11:05 AM, kieyra said:

Side side note: Last night I asked if anyone could explain the last 20 seconds to me. That post got some likes but no answers. He was wandering around stupidly for a while, and I stopped paying attention because those tension-building scenes just annoy me, and when I looked up he was staring at something and the scene faded to pulsing blue lights. Did I actually miss anything? Thanks in advance. 

I found the end of that sequence confusing as hell. I see someone mentioned up thread that the pulsing light mirrored the opening shot, but I didn't remember that while viewing and was just left wondering what had happened.

[Gobi]

50 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

The only way I see this resolving in 3 episodes is if Duane is provably the killer.  But how could Box (if he were so inclined) prove this after all this time?  Unless Duane tossed his blood-stained clothes in the hamper.  The knife is presumably clean by now.

Motive?  Teaching her a lesson for fraternizing with Ay-rabs, I guess?

I think Duane is a red herring. His friend lied about  him being with him, and he ran away from Stone, because his MO fits the crime. I just don't think he did it, although he may know something about it. I have some other thoughts that I'll post in speculation.

[SoCal Mema]

6 hours ago, The Hound Lives said:

Oh...this is very interesting! Great catch! I guess the explanation could be fairly straight forward, we have all seen drug running in movies/shows but it is pretty curious that he didn't ask more questions. I didn't give it much thought at first but that would be an interesting spin if Naz is associated in any way with moving drugs on the outside. He does interact with athletes and not to say all college athletes are doing drugs but I could see Naz being more than just a tutor to his basketball playing "friends". Plus, where would he get the adderall from? 
It could all come full circle if Freddy is associated with that on the outside, not that Naz would necessarily know that. 

I read it as though Naz just knows he has a sensitive gag reflex, hence the scenes of him practicing with the grapes.

[SoCal Mema]

On 8/7/2016 at 7:52 PM, Ellaria Sand said:

Ahh, we are finally getting somewhere. The various players are actually investigating the crime and/or laying out their plans at trial.

I'm having huge problems with Jeannie Berlin's manner of speaking and articulation; I've turned on closed captioning to help figure it out. I wish we had more information about her character. Right now she is being written as "the over zealous prosecutor" and, IMO, it isn't going to end with a win for her.

Maybe it's just because I am hoping to see it but Box appears to be re-examining some of his evidence. At the very least, he is deliberate when pulling together his timeline and evidence. And that's as it should be. But this case - which may be his last - is giving him pause. His long looks at those security cameras will eventually lead him to find out what Stone already knows: Trevor was lying and Duane Reed should be a person of interest.

Kudos to Stone for rescuing the not-ugly kitty and buying her presents. I hope that there is a litter box in that room; otherwise, Dwight will find lots of little surprises during his next visit.

Naz is either revealing his true self or becoming what circumstances have driven him to become. Regardless, I'm intrigued by his transformation...but only to a point. I don't want to watch Oz Revisited.

Two questions:

1. Did we see or know that Naz took Adderall on his own?
2. The guy in the bar that Stone confronted was Andrea's dealer? How did Stone find him/know about him?

If i recall correctly, the DA asked Box to go review the timeline and bring her how he got from Point A to Point B; it wasn't him really re-visiting the evidence or worrying about the arrest/indictment.  That's why he succinctly labeled the map, then neatly folded it up as if he was done and was going to pass it off to the DA.  Also, when he was going through all the videotapes, there wasn't a shot of Duane Read with Trevor in any of the scenes to indicate he was alerted to Trevor's lie.

[hannah8976]

3 hours ago, izabella said:

How long has Naz been in prison?  Maybe he has seen other prisoners acting as mules so knows all about it. 

Yeah, actually, we don't know exactly. Probably days/weeks.  Naz still has the burn on his arm for most of the episode.  

[bagatelle]

6 hours ago, The Hound Lives said:

Oh...this is very interesting! Great catch! I guess the explanation could be fairly straight forward, we have all seen drug running in movies/shows but it is pretty curious that he didn't ask more questions. I didn't give it much thought at first but that would be an interesting spin if Naz is associated in any way with moving drugs on the outside. He does interact with athletes and not to say all college athletes are doing drugs but I could see Naz being more than just a tutor to his basketball playing "friends". Plus, where would he get the adderall from? 
It could all come full circle if Freddy is associated with that on the outside, not that Naz would necessarily know that. 

I saw it as better storytelling when they don't spell everything out for us. We get a sick feeling, we watch him practicing on grapes, we see him nervous in the visiting area… keep it short with few details and watch him try to swallow those things in front of everyone.

Suspenseful, I think, not an example of Naz being an experienced, corrupt kid.

[kay1864]

1 hour ago, Gobi said:

I think Duane is a red herring. His friend lied about  him being with him, and he ran away from Stone, because his MO fits the crime. I just don't think he did it, although he may know something about it. I have some other thoughts that I'll post in speculation.

Well we do know that

Spoiler

Duane is in episodes 6 and 8, which are trial scenes.

[Gobi]

Kay: Regarding  your hidden comment, I was not aware of that.

[djsunyc]

i guess nas' defense has to just come up with reasonable doubt to get him off.  so even if he did do it, they need to show that walgreens could've potentially done it as well.

[Milburn Stone]

1 hour ago, djsunyc said:

i guess nas' defense has to just come up with reasonable doubt to get him off.  so even if he did do it, they need to show that walgreens could've potentially done it as well.

I don't think showing a jury that walgreens (love that moniker--hope it catches on) could have done it will be enough to create reasonable doubt. As a juror, I can conjecture that any number of people could have done it, but with all the evidence against Nas, I'm gonna conclude that it was probably him. (And the jury concluding that it was probably him is all the prosecution needs.) I think the defense has to either prove that it was probably walgreens, or that it couldn't have been Nas.

[Gobi]

The prosecutor has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Naz did it, which is not the same as probably did it.

[Milburn Stone]

7 hours ago, Gobi said:

The prosecutor has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Naz did it, which is not the same as probably did it.

In the real world, I think that's a distinction without a difference. In the jury room, a juror who says, "I don't know for sure, but yeah, I think he probably did it," is going to vote to convict.

[Magic]

The last 20 seconds of lights looked like waking up in the emergency room.  But I don't think there is time to go down that road with only 3 episodes left.

If you watch the part of Stone interrogating Naz, it looks like Naz admits he did take Adderall on his own.  Stone is pressing him after Naz's little nod that he had taken it on his own, what else was he lying about.

I thought there might be some clue to the fact that when Naz ran from Andrea's house he had to break in to get back in and get his stuff, since the door closed/locked automatically when he left.  So if someone had come in to murder Andrea, they must have had a key to get in.

Although maybe it is going to turn out that someone got in through that back entrance that didn't close all the way.

It seems noteworthy in Episode 1 that Andrea said that night was one she *could* not be alone, and not that that night she didn't *want* to be alone.

She didn't seem to really recognize Trevor or Duane that night, like I imagine she might if she owed them something etc., the way people might look if they saw e.g. Freddy suddenly and knew he was coming for them, so maybe they end up being a red herring.

For how street smart Stone is, the last part of this episode, with him confronting Duane, throwing Trevor to the wolves in the process, and the chase scene do not seem in character, particularly since he might lose a potentially valuable witness if for instance, Duane is the one that killed Andrea and could be as violent as that murderer was.

For that matter, Duane's rap sheet crimes didn't seem to be in character with this murder.  For all the stab wounds and blood all over etc., seems like someone would have to be very angry or drugged out/psycho to stab that many times etc.  

Edited August 16, 2016 by Magic

[hannah8976]

The last seconds was a repeat of the opening, which was the uv light.  If I were to grasp at the symbolism, chasing a bad guy into an alley is a way for him to get control over the case, his career... Maybe in a questionable way. Kinda like the light for his eczema?  IDK...

[Neurochick]

On August 11, 2016 at 0:55 AM, Milburn Stone said:

In the real world, I think that's a distinction without a difference. In the jury room, a juror who says, "I don't know for sure, but yeah, I think he probably did it," is going to vote to convict.

But also in the real world you can get a juror who says, "I'm not convinced that he did it."

[Mackey]

I think the answer to "who done  it" is going to tie in with allergies and skin disorders and the cat. And, I think that someone is going to have a light bulb moment of realization. But, those are the only thoughts that I have.

[The Hound Lives]

On 8/10/2016 at 2:31 PM, bagatelle said:

I saw it as better storytelling when they don't spell everything out for us. We get a sick feeling, we watch him practicing on grapes, we see him nervous in the visiting area… keep it short with few details and watch him try to swallow those things in front of everyone.

Suspenseful, I think, not an example of Naz being an experienced, corrupt kid.

Oh, I don't believe it was a drug mule on the outside in the sense that he was transporting heroin/cocaine but seeing as this good kid admitted to taking Adderall, it would be an interesting turn of events if he was a link in someway to providing people with pills. I will be really interested to see why he left the college closest to him. I still think it will be something that paints in an unfavorable light, even if the viewer can explain it away as something foolish a kid does. I am so looking forward to Sunday, mainly because of the episode title "Samson & Delilah". Who betrays who? 

[preeya]

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 5:48 PM, Mackey said:

I think the answer to "who done  it" is going to tie in with allergies and skin disorders and the cat. And, I think that someone is going to have a light bulb moment of realization. But, those are the only thoughts that I have.

This could be, as there is so much time devoted to eczema remedies, saran wrap, cat toys and cat food.

[candall]

On ‎8‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 11:55 PM, LittleIggy said:

Stone buying the toys for the kitty then waiting to hear if she/he played with them was so sweet.

It was adorable.  I'm ready for John to suit up the hazmat gear and go in for some scritchies.

Placated on the kitty issue, I'm letting them off the hook for 1)Naz not walking out of the visitors' room and urping up those balloons with a quick finger down the throat and 2)John Stone in hot pursuit mode, clambering over fences, in his Saran Wrap and sandals.

I'm sorry the quid pro quo for Naz doesn't involve The Great Books.  The next stop, according to Oz, involves a little lip gloss and a light dusting of rouge.

: (

[ganesh]

Wow, is the prosecutor trying to convince herself that Naz did it, or is looking to connect dots that aren't there? Just because he kicked guys out of his cab and let the woman in, you jump right to, "oh yeah, this was premeditated." Granted, one can make a good argument out of this information, but that seems way too much of a leap. Then twisting the coroner's arm about the cut. 

I'm just still having a hard time with, while yes, it looks bad for Naz, he's got no arrest record, and had no blood on him, and there was no evidence he cleaned himself up that no one was like, "uh wait a minute?" It's fine if they made the decision to hang it on him, but for no one to say privately, "hmm" bothers me. 

I'm still leaning to a not guilty verdict, but everyone thinks he did it anyway. 

Loved the cat toys scene. Best one in the show. 

[Magic]

It bugs me that we don't know anything about Andrea's past since no one seems to be investigating it.  There obviously is something if the stepdad was tired of bailing her out and, at least pretended, that is why he was getting called by the police when they called to tell him he was dead.  Maybe it would be more obvious who are other suspects if we knew more about her past.  Including if there was any connection with who her step-dad was arguing with at her funeral.

And didn't the DA find out that the knife cuts were in the ballpark but larger than the lime knife Naz had?

And I still wonder why they show the deer head all the time.  Andrea doesn't seem the type who would pick stuffed animal heads to mount on her wall.

I don't know what overall focus they wanted for this series e.g. about even before you're proven guilty you could have to deal with some major issues in prison life or what.  But we know so little about anyone especially Andrea it isn't a who dun it type series because we just aren't being shown enough and at this point with just three more episodes left it would be limited time to show anything and still be a who dun it.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Magic

[ganesh]

That's kind of what I meant by "uh wait a minute?" Naz looks good for the murder, but yeah, the stepdad clearly revealed that she's been problematic. I would think they would at least follow up. Because that's what a detective does? 

I guess they figured Naz would plead down, they'd take the win, and call it a day, so they didn't bother. 

Oh, I bet there's a camera in the deer head. Someone probably posted that before, and I'm trying to keep up because I'm a week behind, but I just thought of it. 

I suppose the point of the show could be that it's irrelevant who actually killed her, and that an innocent man was turned into a criminal because of it. Or the DA will realize he didn't do it and drop the case, but he's stuck in jail for drug related crimes. 

The problem for me is that it seems Naz so clearly did *not* do it, that for an experienced detective like Box to not at least privately be skeptical right from the get go is a huge logical fallacy for me. 

[aemom]

I've just watched this series on demand. In case anybody still cares, I think that the end scene is Stone giving up on chasing Dwayne Reed and going back home to his UV lamp.