Everwood - General Discussion

[iknowyouknow]

How is this show not widely acclaimed as one of the best dramas of all time?! I love it so much, and rewatching it this past month has reminded me of why. Some of my disorganized thoughts:

Like nearly everyone else, I hate everything involving Madison. The first and last seasons were my favorites partly because they were the most blessedly Madison free, but there's enough I love about nearly every episode to make them all worth watching repeatedly. Even season 3, known for the worst of the Madison ordeal and the cringey affair between Amanda and Andy, gifts us with Hannah. Hannah's friendship with Amy and her relationship with Bright turned out to be some of my very favorite things about the show. We also get to see Amy/Ephram happily together for a string of episodes, which makes my heart soar! I shipped Amy/Ephram and Hannah/Bright more than almost any other fictional couples, though this was years before people used the term "shipping" anyway :) I actually relate to Ephram's character a lot despite the fact that I can't even play "chopsticks" on the piano and can't relate to his soft spot for Madison, and I think the actor, like almost all of Everwood's actors, was perfect for that role. I didn't care much about Andy's romance with Nina even though I'm much closer to their age than to the teens' ages, but I was very invested in Andy's relationships with his children and Harold. And still am :) So I would say my favorite non-romantic relationship were Andy/Harold, Amy/Hannah, Ephram/Delia/Andy, Harold/Edna and the two romances I cared and still care way too much about are Amy/Ephram and Bright/Hannah. Whenever I read the episode synopses I'm reminded of how heavy and tearjerking so many of the show's themes and issues were, but I agree with the people who said that the show is ultimately uplifting and inspiring, and there was always just enough humor and moments of real happiness to balance out the angst. Mostly I just love hanging out with these characters in this town and daydreaming about the Everwood fanfiction that I will probably never write :)

[CleoCaesar]

Everwood Revival: 'There's a Real Shot It Could Come Back,' Says Greg Berlanti

Kind of mixed feelings about this (judging by the excrement that was the Gilmore Girls revival), but it could be cool to see everyone together again. Probably without Chris Pratt, I'd imagine, given his schedule.

[ZoqFotPik]

Stephanie Niznik has died.

[fishcakes]

So sorry to hear about Stephanie Niznik.

I just rewatched the entire series, and this was the first time I saw the final season. I don't remember why I didn't watch it at the time; I might have given up midway through season 3 when we were finally and blessedly free of Amanda and then effing Madison shows up in the very next episode. In any case, the last season was great and nearly as good as season 1. Season 3 was tolerable on rewatch and season 2 remains hot garbage, now and forever.

I semi-binged season 4 over the last week and even though I usually don't like happy, tidy endings, I loved this one. Then I saw the alternate ending and wanted to shoot my TV. I didn't realize until reading this thread that they filmed the alternate in case they got renewed for a fifth season, but either way: ugh. Ephram on the phone with Madison and Amy just waiting there in front of the ferris wheel? No no no no.

I do have a few specific nitpicks over the finale, though. It was completely out of character for Edna to move in with Harold and Rose to help them care for their conveeeniently left on the doorstep new baby, Hannah should have chosen Notre Dame (full ride, girl!), and Delia finally getting her horse was pure cheese, but overall I thought it was great. Also, Amy's wardrobe makes me nostalgic for early 2000s fashion.

[possibilities]

Was Stephanie N's cause of death ever revealed to the public?

It's sad, either way.

[DeafAngelboy23]

15 years today for the series finale “Foreverwood pt. 1&2” 6/5/2006 

[Asp Burger]

This is a show that I was always sorry I had not got in on the ground floor for. I had never seen a whole episode, and it was harder to catch up back then, and then it was gone. I was so glad to find it on HBO Max. I'm only about six episodes into season 1, but I'm really enjoying it. It has the best things about other Greg Berlanti shows I know, and fewer of the annoyances. It's like Dawson's Creek divided by Northern Exposure (which I read in an interview is one of Berlanti's favorite shows). 

Such a great cast too. I'm glad Gregory Smith is finding success as a television director, but I'm kind of sorry he doesn't act as much now. I've seen his wedding photos, and it obviously isn't a case of a cute teen growing up unattractive. Also, Tom Amandes is so good at making it believable when his character behaves in ways that might seem too much from a lesser actor, and at delivering dialogue that borders on overwritten. He's wonderful. I probably will always think "prostate cancer" when I look at him, because of his memorable performance in an ER episode as a patient of Kerry's. Treat Williams, of course, is always good.  

It's so easy to be spoiled for far-ahead stories when a show ran as long ago as this one did, but I don't mind. 

[windsprints]

On 7/15/2021 at 2:37 AM, Asp Burger said:

This is a show that I was always sorry I had not got in on the ground floor for. I had never seen a whole episode, and it was harder to catch up back then, and then it was gone. I was so glad to find it on HBO Max. I'm only about six episodes into season 1, but I'm really enjoying it. It has the best things about other Greg Berlanti shows I know, and fewer of the annoyances. It's like Dawson's Creek divided by Northern Exposure (which I read in an interview is one of Berlanti's favorite shows). 

Such a great cast too. I'm glad Gregory Smith is finding success as a television director, but I'm kind of sorry he doesn't act as much now. I've seen his wedding photos, and it obviously isn't a case of a cute teen growing up unattractive. Also, Tom Amandes is so good at making it believable when his character behaves in ways that might seem too much from a lesser actor, and at delivering dialogue that borders on overwritten. He's wonderful. I probably will always think "prostate cancer" when I look at him, because of his memorable performance in an ER episode as a patient of Kerry's. Treat Williams, of course, is always good.  

It's so easy to be spoiled for far-ahead stories when a show ran as long ago as this one did, but I don't mind. 

I may do a rewatch now that it's on HBOMax. I love show. I hope you enjoy the rest!

[Asp Burger]

On 7/15/2021 at 2:37 AM, Asp Burger said:

It's like Dawson's Creek divided by Northern Exposure (which I read in an interview is one of Berlanti's favorite shows). 

I'm further into it now (Madison just arrived), and I have to amend that: Dawson's Creek + Party of Five / Northern Exposure. I don't know if Berlanti was consciously influenced by PoF, but it does have a lot in common with that show, and it reminds me of the early, best seasons of it. Dead parent. Musical prodigy kid. Adorable little girl who gets lighter plots. (Only this time, those last two are separate kids.) Bearded authority figure struggling to figure out parenting. Attractive babysitter who becomes a love interest for one of the kids. "Issue"-type episodes. And, eventually, Scott Wolf in the cast. (Tamara Taylor, who played Charlie's social-worker/politician girlfriend in an early season, was also in briefly. She was Amy's school counselor who advised putting her on antidepressants.) 

Still really liking it.

[Sara2009]

On 3/29/2014 at 11:20 AM, rogueprinzess said:

I know I'm in the minority but I actually liked the relationship between Madison and Ephram. I agree that the age difference thing was sketchy, but not unrealistic. I also always thought that it would have made for great TV to see Ephram dealing with being a father (cuz I'm fairly certain the writers were going in the direction of having Madison reverse her adoption decision and return to Everwood with Ephram 2.0) and dealing with his OTP with Amy. 

I also would have loved to see Andy and Nina get together. I really liked the calm, relaxed chemistry that she had with Andy and Brown children.

Andy and Nina did get together in the end. He proposed, and she accepted.

[juno]

Just started my first binge in over 10 years. Just finished 1 x 15.

Some thoughts: I forgot how absolety horrible people were to Andy and Ephram, even Deliah was bullied. Amy being the worst. Just a horrifying selfish and thoughtless person that used Ephram like a dishrag and tossed him when she didn't need him. I never wanted them to get together, unfortunately according to shipping laws they were meant to be together. My favorite was Lainie, she was so great for Ephram.

I thought a world famous brain surgeon and a teen from New York would be a lot more popular.

Loved Edna even more this time around and Nina is great.

The sappy dramatic music is annoying and really manipulative. Takes me out of the scene each time.

Edited August 10, 2021 by juno

[Asp Burger]

I finished the series this morning. 

This is a tough one. It felt like two related but significantly different series to me, with the shift in the middle. I already knew that Rina Mimoun took over from Greg Berlanti as the principal showrunner in seasons 3 and 4, but I think I would have guessed there was a handoff.

The style and tone change. The town recedes to just being a scenic setting as the Irv narration goes away; there's less focus on the peculiarities and character of Everwood. Everwood becomes (even) more of a relationship-focused show, with all the classic soap stand-bys like a conflicted character hugging an oblivious happy character, with the fade-out to commercial being the conflicted character's troubled eyes over the other person's shoulder. Newly introduced characters pull focus. Irv and Edna go for long stretches without appearing; their S3 separation is barely there. Even Delia is in and out, and it's surprising that a female showrunner didn't do more with her. I really missed her relationship with Edna..

There's also less focus on the medical practice (and too much of Jake's competing one). And I didn't like that round-up of Andy's former patients in the finale of S3, especially the humor at the expense of the young man with the stutter. 

But I think how someone feels about S3 and S4 might come down to feelings about Hannah. I won't mince words. I couldn't stand her. The term "Mary Sue" gets overused, but she struck me as a classic Sue in the way the term was coined long ago: an author stand-in who becomes beloved by the familiar characters. She's an aspiring writer (like Mimoun probably was), she's awkward (but in "endearing" ways), she has a tragic back story that arguably trumps the Brown kids', and she eats up so much time. She becomes Amy's new best friend, she becomes Bright's girlfriend, people bring her up and talk about how great she is when she isn't in a scene. By the time they had her giving advice to grown-ups like Nina and Harold, who reacted as if it it were remarkably perceptive and helpful advice when it was usually just the things anyone would say, I was gritting my teeth.

It's nothing against Sarah Drew, who I thought was good as poor Kitty Romano on Mad Men. But Hannah was my least favorite part of all four seasons.  

I should not focus too much on what I did not like. I really loved season 1, which was far and away my favorite. Season 2 seems unpopular with a lot of fans, but I thought it was a strong followup. The Madison story wasn't pleasurable. It was a train-wreck we saw coming from a mile away. But I could see what Ephram found appealing about her, and what she found appealing about him, and how Andy was in a difficult spot with a lot of bad options available to him, so it was doomed to blow up in everyone's face. I found that story generally solid in the acting and the handling. To me, it was preferable to Andy's dreary involvement with the Hayes couple (a waste of two good actors, Anne Heche and Jason Beghe) or anything Hannah. 

On Amy: I grew to like her. I think Emily VanCamp really matured as an actor over four years. The moment when I really came to care about the character was something that was perilous and might have been really bad. It was when she was at the party with Tommy, took GHB and thought she saw Colin. That was one of my favorite scenes in the series, when he told her to stop following him, and she said (paraphrasing), "What am I supposed to do?" I felt for the first time I understand what a character I was running short on patience with was going through. Those beyond-the-grave conversations are not easy to do well, but that one nailed it, and I thought EvC was really poignant.

I also thought Mark Erwin was always great as all the versions of Colin: past, present, and imagined; sweet, confused, cruel, and unhinged. 

Anyway, I'm glad to have seen it all, even if I couldn't love all the seasons equally. My favorite characters were the ones with whom we started; none of the later additions clicked with me in the same way. Even in what I felt were the weaker episodes, it was probably better than most of what was on the networks in 2002-06, especially shows that focused heavily on younger characters.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Asp Burger
Spelling

[Sara2009]

3 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

I finished the series this morning. 

This is a tough one. It felt like two related but significantly different series to me, with the shift in the middle. I already knew that Rina Mimoun took over from Greg Berlanti as the principal showrunner in seasons 3 and 4, but I think I would have guessed there was a handoff.

The style and tone change. The town recedes to just being a scenic setting as the Irv narration goes away; there's less focus on the peculiarities and character of Everwood. Everwood becomes (even) more of a relationship-focused show, with all the classic soap stand-bys like a conflicted character hugging an oblivious happy character, with the fade-out to commercial being the conflicted character's troubled eyes over the other person's shoulder. Newly introduced characters pull focus. Irv and Edna go for long stretches without appearing; their S3 separation is barely there. Even Delia is in and out, and it's surprising that a female showrunner didn't do more with her. I really missed her relationship with Edna..

There's also less focus on the medical practice (and too much of Jake's competing one). And I didn't like that round-up of Andy's former patients in the finale of S3, especially the humor at the expense of the young man with the stutter. 

But I think how someone feels about S3 and S4 might come down to feelings about Hannah. I won't mince words. I couldn't stand her. The term "Mary Sue" gets overused, but she struck me as a classic Sue in the way the term was coined long ago: an author stand-in who becomes beloved by the familiar characters. She's an aspiring writer (like Mimoun probably was), she's awkward (but in "endearing" ways), she has a tragic back story that arguably trumps the Brown kids', and she eats up so much time. She becomes Amy's new best friend, she becomes Bright's girlfriend, people bring her up and talk about how great she is when she isn't in a scene. By the time they had her giving advice to grown-ups like Nina and Harold, who reacted as if it it were remarkably perceptive and helpful advice when it was usually just the things anyone would say, I was gritting my teeth.

It's nothing against Sarah Drew, who I thought was good as poor Kitty Romano on Mad Men. But Hannah was my least favorite part of all four seasons.  

I should not focus too much on what I did not like. I really loved season 1, which was far and away my favorite. Season 2 seems unpopular with a lot of fans, but I thought it was a strong followup. The Madison story wasn't pleasurable. It was a train-wreck we saw coming from a mile away. But I could see what Ephram found appealing about her, and what she found appealing about him, and how Andy was in a difficult spot with a lot of bad options available to him, so it was doomed to blow up in everyone's face. I found that story generally solid in the acting and the handling. To me, it was preferable to Andy's dreary involvement with the Hayes couple (a waste of two good actors, Anne Heche and Jason Beghe) or anything Hannah. 

On Amy: I grew to like her. I think Emily VanCamp really matured as an actor over four years. The moment when I really came to care about the character was something that was perilous and might have been really bad. It was when she was at the party with Tommy, took GHB and thought she saw Colin. That was one of my favorite scenes in the series, when he told her to stop following him, and she said (paraphrasing), "What am I supposed to do?" I felt for the first time I understand what a character I was running short on patience with was going through. Those beyond-the-grave conversations are not easy to do well, but that one nailed it, and I thought EvC was really poignant.

I also thought Mark Erwin was always great as all the versions of Colin: past, present, and imagined; sweet, confused, cruel, and unhinged. 

Anyway, I'm glad to have seen it all, even if I couldn't love all the seasons equally. My favorite characters were the ones with whom we started; none of the later additions clicked with me in the same way. Even in what I felt were the weaker episodes, it was probably better than most of what was on the networks in 2002-06, especially shows that focused heavily on younger characters.

In terms of Hannah’s advice, I actually thought what she told Nina wasn’t particularly good. I’m not saying Nina should’ve abandoned Jake, but saying she should be the one to “ save” him from his drug addiction wasn’t great either. 

[MaryAnneSpier]

I never ever bought Hannah and Bright. She said early on that she liked guys like Amy's brother, but honestly what is there to "like"? She could say she thought he was physically attractive, but that she liked him? I don't buy it. Their dating relationship was going to end inevitably; they were just way too different. And overall, Hannah was obnoxious. She seemed like a character created solely with the purpose of appealling to the introverted, insecure wallflower teenage girl viewers the show had and to draw more in. Amy of season 2, I understood. I have had some really bad periods of depression, so I empathized with her. However, Amy of season 4 was insufferable- the textbook definition of a pretentious, smug college airhead.

[MsNewsradio]

Treat Williams has died. 

Heartbroken over this. 

[CleoCaesar]

This is so sad and unexpected.

Just last month I decided to rewatch season 3 and 4 (my favorites) for old times' sake and reread the old TWoP recaps. Ah, the nostalgia. I loved how he was just Treat in them. I kept thinking that if they do a revival someday (very unlikely), they'd have to re-cast Nina, or make Andy a widower again (RIP, Stephanie Niznik).

Not that a revival is necessary. Everwood should remain crystallized in the mid-2000s.

RIP, Treat.

[TheLastKidPicked]

10 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Not that a revival is necessary. Everwood should remain crystallized in the mid-2000s.

RIP, Treat.

 

The show really needs to stay in the 2000's for one specific reason.  If Everwood were set in today's time, the kids (and adults) would have social media and much better cell phone coverage than in the original run.

This would eliminate a lot of the miscommunication that caused drama and conflict for our favorite characters.  But it's that very drama and conflict that kept us coming back for more.

 

And now that Treat is gone.  You know what they say-- you can't go home again.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by TheLastKidPicked

[readster]

Also, the show wouldn't be able to use the 'medial emergency of the week" plus sadly if Everwood as a town was now as: "We can't let others know how we need to shelter the truth" would play into the current political environment of "don't ask, don't tell". 

[omgsowicked]

John Beasley (Irv) also recently passed. :(

I was wondering if there were any Everwood podcasts out there and stumbled upon This Time Around, a podcast that just so happens to be doing an Everwood rewatch right now. One of hosts has seen the show before, the other hasn't. They're halfway through S2 now.

I finally did a rewatch, finished the last episode yesterday. I think it mostly holds up, though some things did stick out for me this time. I was really turned off by how they treated Amy's mental health storyline and I think Hannah should have gone to Notre Dame and been done with Bright.

With Amy, I think it was very accurate to the time period; I remember my mom didn't want me to go on antidepressants for similar reasons ("it'll make you a zombie, change your brain and personality permanently!") around the same time (which only meant that I suffered for nearly 15 years for no reason, yay). Watching that story play out made me so happy and appreciative that we've made so much progress on mental health. The way her parents treated her was awful. They dismissed her cries for help and hindered her progress every step of the way. And they never admitted that medication and other therapeutic tools were the right thing for her in the end, they never said, "you know what, we were wrong and we're sorry." I was also a little let down with how they treated Reid's mental health, in that they didn't show what help he received after he was released from the hospital. Did he even receive counseling? It seemed like he was left without any tools and then decided, "OK, I'll go back home and see what happens with my life!"

And Hannah deciding to stay in Colorado was a disappointment. The way she and Bright ended on the mountain, agreeing to be friends for life was good enough. They tried but they were not a good match. I think if the show were done today, there may have been a discussion between them about differing sexual needs and if they could find a compromise. But I think I'd have been happier if Hannah got with that Australian guy (who was also religious and respectful, and more confident and charismatic than nervous Topher), and Bright went into future relationships with his newly developed respect for women and care for relationships. What did they expect? She chose to date someone she knew was the hook up king, and he knew sex was something he valued in relationships. Hello? I blame him more than her, as she was upfront about her views and never wavered; he should have told her it wouldn't work shortly after she told him. They could have remained friends and he could have developed the same way via the friendship. Hannah the character wore thin for me, though, after all this time. I probably related to her introverted meekness at the time but man, she was a nasty, judgemental little thing when she wanted to be.

[readster]

Also looking at Madison's story line, we get it was the writers to throw in a wrench and focus more on Amy's mental and depression problems. However, looking back on it, no way Andy would have hired this woman to be the "nanny"? When she first shows up, he talks about how she is in childcare and going towards education. She then does everything to completely avoid anything with that with her band. Hell, her boyfriend comes off as some angry and jealous guy who spouts "college boyfriend abuser". Also, Delia showed herself on her own and find around the house on a number of times and then all of a sudden Andy is: "Well you are busy and I'm busy and someone needs to watch Delia." Also sad to say, the town of Everwood showed how small rural backwards it thought at times. I'm not talking about Linda having aids, but the entire way they would jump on someone for making ONE mistake like with Andy and then forgetting about it a few months later. Wanting to "protect" their young teen kids who were having sex and deciding to the "don't ask don't tell" will magically keep their lives "regular" made you roll your eyes hard. 

[CleoCaesar]

On 7/4/2023 at 6:04 PM, omgsowicked said:

I think Hannah should have gone to Notre Dame and been done with Bright.

I strongly agree. It's the one thing I would change in the series finale. Even just on a practical level, Hannah is giving up a full ride to Notre Dame, an excellent, highly ranked school, to pay out-of-state tuition to a third-rate college, simply because…her high school friends and her ex are there. Talk about horrible decision making. That's not a heartwarming end.

She and Bright as you said were not a good match. Different values, different lifestyles, different views on sex. By staying in Everwood for college, Hannah essentially locks herself into a dead-end relationship. God forbid Amy wants to transfer out of state or even study abroad. Hannah is putting a lot of pressure on these friendships to stay unchanging in Everwood. 

The cute Australian guy was a better match for her in their two scenes together than in two seasons of her and Bright.

[readster]

On 7/10/2023 at 3:28 PM, CleoCaesar said:

I strongly agree. It's the one thing I would change in the series finale. Even just on a practical level, Hannah is giving up a full ride to Notre Dame, an excellent, highly ranked school, to pay out-of-state tuition to a third-rate college, simply because…her high school friends and her ex are there. Talk about horrible decision making. That's not a heartwarming end.

She and Bright as you said were not a good match. Different values, different lifestyles, different views on sex. By staying in Everwood for college, Hannah essentially locks herself into a dead-end relationship. God forbid Amy wants to transfer out of state or even study abroad. Hannah is putting a lot of pressure on these friendships to stay unchanging in Everwood. 

The cute Australian guy was a better match for her in their two scenes together than in two seasons of her and Bright.

Even more, Hannah ending up in Everwood was seriously because her mother was in a depressed state. "Oh my husband died of a rare disease that my two children may, or may not have. I better ship one off to the middle of nowhere while my college age son gives me the middle finger, knowing I knew about the disease for years and hid it. Because, don't ask, don't tell." If I were Hannah I be: "I know I don't have the disease, I've been made to believe to be sheltered all my life. I need to grow and move on not basing my life on others. Hell, it's a free ride too."