S01.E03: A Dark Crate

[qtpye]

It's been a long time since I have seen anyone eat veal.  I think it has lost popularity because of the cruel way they treat the calves.

15 hours ago, bagatelle said:

I thought the show wanted us to think he's innocent.  We can't be sure, but they aren't showing us anything to make us think he did it.

I think the show wants us to root for Naz otherwise it would not be as compelling.  I am with those that wanted to watch for the mystery, however I appreciate that they are going to do a realistic portrayal of the criminal justice system.  This is not Law & Order where all criminals are charged and sentences in fifteen minutes.  However, they do need to give us clues and not lose track of why most people are watching or they will alienate their audience.

[Neurochick]

21 hours ago, izabella said:

I don't know that he's innocent.  But there are enough questions that create ambiguity that the police choosing NOT to investigate anything else about the crime (like who else might have wanted to kill the victim) leaves me feeling like this show is mostly about how the justice system screws over someone innocent.  If he is guilty, this wouldn't be a story about innocents getting screwed over...it would be justice for him to be arrested and in jail without bail. 

I think if Naz had called the police and said what happened, he might not have been arrested as quickly.  The police probably thought that he was fleeing a murder scene, which made him look guiltier.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

I don't know that he's innocent.  But there are enough questions that create ambiguity that the police choosing NOT to investigate anything else about the crime (like who else might have wanted to kill the victim) leaves me feeling like this show is mostly about how the justice system screws over someone innocent.

From the perspective of the police force and the DA, the case against Naz is a slam-dunk. I think the pilot episode demonstrated that pretty well. It's not really their job to investigate other avenues once they have such a solid case. That's up to the defense team. I think we've seen hints that Box has some misgivings but all the evidence points to Naz. The questions we have as viewers aren't necessarily questions the police on the show would have. 

I'm not seeing this (so far) as a story about the justice system screwing over someone clearly innocent. In fact I'm not sure what they're trying to say here. But I can see that Naz isn't "clearly" innocent and why he looks so damn guilty given everything they have on him. 

[kieyra]

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

It's been a long time since I have seen anyone eat veal.  I think it has lost popularity because of the cruel way they treat the calves.

I think the show wants us to root for Naz otherwise it would not be as compelling.  I am with those that wanted to watch for the mystery, however I appreciate that they are going to do a realistic portrayal of the criminal justice system.  This is not Law & Order where all criminals are charged and sentences in fifteen minutes.  However, they do need to give us clues and not lose track of why most people are watching or they will alienate their audience.

 

Yeah--the thing here is, there's still a wide spectrum between L&O and this show, and it's been filled with tons of other gritty murder serials in the last five or six years:

--The Killing / Forbrydselsen

--Broadchurch / Gracepoint

--Luther

--Marcella (on Netflix now, Luther/Killing-ish)

--(Other 'Nordic Noir' shows I'm forgetting.)

These shows have all taken on various aspects of the criminal justice system--although usually in a highly melodramatic way--and done original takes on 'crime procedural'. The problem is, the pilot of The Night Of seemed similar in tone to the shows above (broadly). But all of those shows are ultimately 'whodunnits', and they expect the audience to ask the same 'procedural' questions some of us are asking.

You can't set up "The Killing" in your pilot, and then tell the audience they have to treat the rest of the show like it's "The Wire".

I mean, I guess you can, but expect some confusion.

Edited July 28, 2016 by kieyra

[qtpye]

Yeah, most people are in it for the who dunnit and do not want an Oz/Wire/Better Call Saul mash up.

[LittleIggy]

That poor cat being taken back to death row broke heart. I can watch all kinds of violent shows/movies, but when an animal is killed or put in peril in them, it really affects me. Add to that Freddie describing how veal calves are treated...:-(

[Superpole2000]

On 7/28/2016 at 3:56 PM, kieyra said:

You can't set up "The Killing" in your pilot, and then tell the audience they have to treat the rest of the show like it's "The Wire".

I mean, I guess you can, but expect some confusion.

I agree, although I would gladly watch a show that included elements from both types of shows. Dropping the investigation entirely would be a bit of a bait and switch to me. The most satisfying part of the show so far for me was when Naz's first lawyer finally visited the crime scene.

[LittleIggy]

Naz is the client so why can't he hire Stone? I know the parents are the logical ones to go to for a retainer, but he is a legal adult and should have his choice of counsel.

[stagmania]

On 7/26/2016 at 6:23 PM, The Hound Lives said:

I don't know how old the actress is who plays the Mom but the way she is styled, I would say both parents look to be mid-40's. If Naz is 23, then it visually makes sense for me. But I also thought Riz Ahmed was mid-20's, maybe 25, so I was surprised to read he was 33. It also makes me feel less creepy because I think he is nice to look at (even more so in "Trishna").

Well the episodes were filmed 2-3 years ago, so he wasn't 33 at the time. Still aged down significantly, though.

I just finally caught up on the last two episodes. I like the show, but I can't seem to inspire a sense of urgency in myself to watch. I'm more interested in the crime investigation side than I am the prison story, despite the presence of Michael K Williams, but it looks like the show is headed away from that. It certainly has not been able to maintain the viscerally compelling nature of the pilot. I'm still watching, but my enthusiasm has flagged a bit.

[ganesh]

Me: I don't know if I want to see Nas in prison and all the typical prison things that I've seen on all the tv shows. 

HBO: We actually have Omar talking about veal.

Oh, ffs ok. 

 

Quote

I'm not seeing this (so far) as a story about the justice system screwing over someone clearly innocent. In fact I'm not sure what they're trying to say here. But I can see that Naz isn't "clearly" innocent and why he looks so damn guilty given everything they have on him.

The evidence is strong even though it's circumstantial. Really, the police want to close cases. My issue is that there hasn't been any other more direct evidence rolling in to implicate him, and I think it's just unprofessional of Box to state that the case is a slam dunk.  If the woman was raped, the forensics would be able to say this, right? The DA woman was talking about rape. 

When Naz was picked up by the cops, he was clean. The woman cop who picked up Naz has been complaining left and right that they were already off shift. That has to be something.

Edited August 1, 2016 by ganesh

[LoveLeigh]

On 7/25/2016 at 5:33 PM, preeya said:

I suffer from eczema so I can sympathize. I once had an out  break on my calfs. The remedy was tepid baths followed by applying olive oil wrapped with Saran Wrap. It worked.

I also have had bouts of eczema. I have it on my hands. The itch was sometimes totally unbearable. My friend said her itch was so bad she sometimes scratched with a dull knife (not a long stick) to try to get relief. 

I had an arsenal of creams and ointments but the only thing that worked was a hydrocortisone cream. 

I am not sure why they are dwelling on Stone's eczema unless at the end it ties in with something. They also keep panning to the eye of that animal head on the wall. Is there a cam in there? 

This series can end with any of many possibilities but I am hoping that it ends with firm resolution and not leaving us wondering who did it. 

Edited August 1, 2016 by DakotaLavender

[candall]

No way are the police going to try to dig up a different killer; in fact, they'll do their best to avoid even considering the possibility.  They have a good case against Naz and anything else they do weakens that case.  If they actually find something pointing to someone else it would have to be turned over to Naz's attorney as "exculpatory evidence."  And at trial, the defense would jump all over further investigation as showing that the police were less than certain and therefore, bingo, reasonable doubt for the jury as well.

There's also the more cynical viewpoint that people in the business of justice administration like to clear cases.

************

Of course I'm hoping John bites the Benadryl bullet and saves that sweet kitty, too, but there are worse fates for an abandoned animal than ten days at a shelter and a swift euthanasia.  Dying confused and starving outside your own house is worse and sometimes a no-kill shelter is not the kindest solution either--not for the animals who wind up spending years in a small box with little affection or contact.  Kill vs. no-kill shelter can be a surprisingly tricky issue. 

I want to know why those people piling up memorials and attending graveside services for whatsherface aren't asking about the damn cat!  Some friends.

***************

 

Just for the hat trick on cynical minority opinions, $50k is nothing for a murder case that gets all the way to trial.  Stone would be looking at two years and hundreds of hours on the research and prep of the motions/briefs, with maybe $25k in expenses for independent investigation, deposition costs, expert witnesses, etc.  Plus a new suit and some giant roomy clown shoes.

[Happytobehere]

On July 25, 2016 at 2:56 PM, AuntiePam said:

I think you're on to something. 

So far, I'm still riveted.  I think the writing is great, the dialogue is realistic (no exposition, nobody's long-winded), and everyone's motivations are understandable. 

I'm not spending much thought on what might happen next (I'm never right anyway), but I do think the brothers might sue to get their cab back.  And it wouldn't surprise me if Freddy is behind the fire.  They all know Freddy wants Naz, for whatever reason, and they're helping Naz make up his mind.   Hell, maybe they're just as bored as Freddy.

Didn't Omar smoke Newports?  Menthol, I think.

This is what I think as well.  What others took for trope, I took as proof of Freddy/Omar's power because it never occurred to me that he didn't set that up.  I think this is how Freddy recruits, right down to the helpful prisoner.  Freddy looks to see where he can insinuate himself into your life and he pounces.  He has the "helpful" bunk ate working one angle and the other prisoners working the other angle.  What he wants in return is actually frightening because if Freddy simply wanted sex, he clearly could arrange to be alone with Nazir and force him.  

My primary complaint is the fascination with Stone's feet.  WTF, who thinks that is something people would care about and be interested in seeing.

[spaceytraci1208]

On 7/25/2016 at 0:16 AM, WaltersHair said:

Like an idiot, I watched OZ all those years ago and I'm still scarred by it. I'm not kidding. Whenever that guy shows up on the insurance commercials all I can think of is What Supremacist Dude. Same with the CSI Special victims guy and Edie Falco.

So, thank you show for sparing us the obligatory 'don't drop the soap in the shower' routine. Oldest prison trope on earth.

Oz was my introduction to HBO drama...and remains my favorite HBO series. J.K. Simmons is every bit as much Dr. Emil Skoda from Law and Order as he is Vern Shillinger  to me. So many actors from Oz, much like the actors from The Wire, went on to do other HBO projects. In fact, the actor who plays the guard who introduced Nas to Michael K. Williams' character was one of the inmates on Oz

[DrSparkles]

On 7/26/2016 at 3:29 PM, clb1016 said:

If all episodes were available, I would already have bingewatched this series in one sitting.  Multiple times.

I knew MKW was in this, but it took Naz's Emmy win to get me motivated. I'm home w a head cold & moving on to Epi 4!!!