S05.E12: Any Sum Within Reason

[paigow]

Chang forces Mei to leave Truckee after discovering her secret; Cullen exorcises some old demons during his search.

[TigerLynx]

I cheered when Cullen shot Chang.  I guess Chang didn't get the memo.  He can abuse women, and his own people, but he can't cross a white man and live.

[Ohwell]

Welp.  At least Chang is dead and Mei got out alive, so there's that.  Otherwise, this show sucks so bad now that I'm glad there are only two episodes left.

This show is so depressing, I actually thought Mei had hanged herself when Cullen opened the door.  Nobody is happy!

Edited July 10, 2016 by Ohwell

[JackONeill]

So, after all this, it's going to end with the railroad being . . . um, built.

Sort of anticlimactic, don't you think?

[Ohwell]

Yup.  I'm reminded of that song, "Is That All There Is"?

[JackONeill]

But I swear to god if Cullen winds up getting killed in the last episode, I will have to check myself into someplace with non-harmful silverware.

[TigerLynx]

I didn't think Cullen could be killed.  He's immortal.  He routinely takes on dozens of men, kills them all, and returns to the railroad.  If Cullen and Durant hadn't wasted so much time scheming and killing the damn railroad would be built already.

[Ohwell]

27 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

But I swear to god if Cullen winds up getting killed in the last episode, I will have to check myself into someplace with non-harmful silverware.

I feel the same way about Psalms, too.  

[paigow]

I hope the note said that Stagecoach Sally betrayed Cullen...He will probably ship some nitro disguised as whiskey...

[Raja]

1 hour ago, TigerLynx said:

I didn't think Cullen could be killed.  He's immortal.  He routinely takes on dozens of men, kills them all, and returns to the railroad.  If Cullen and Durant hadn't wasted so much time scheming and killing the damn railroad would be built already.

This is the first time he went into battle like a Terminator as if a bullet could not harm him as he limped along and reloaded to take out Chang's squad. But then Chang himself just had the bad Kung Fu movie scene at the mine when the miner mooks came at him one at a time. So did we learn that while the white prostitutes were volunteers or for some reason like being raped and tattooed by Native Americans unable to do anything else while the Chinese prostitutes were victims of human traffickers?

[JWalker]

Is that it for Mei? Leave us dangling wondering what happens to her. Why would she be any safer back home in China?

[JackONeill]

2 hours ago, JWalker said:

Is that it for Mei? Leave us dangling wondering what happens to her. Why would she be any safer back home in China?

"At least she didn't get killed," he says cautiously, knowing that there are two episodes left.

[Raja]

I am pretty sure Mei is gone story wise. All that is left is fan fiction following the life of a single mother 'war widow" who brought money back to her home in China and rises to power.

[JackONeill]

One question (well, with this series, I have many, but . . .)

At a point, didn't I hear Cullen tell Mei to go to Maggie, that she would help protect her?  Isn't Maggie the woman who was killed two weeks ago?

[JWalker]

Yes! Maggie Palmer was killed in last weeks episode after getting involved with one of Durrants schemes. It would appear that Cullen was unaware of her demise.

[NorthstarATL]

42 minutes ago, JWalker said:

Yes! Maggie Palmer was killed in last weeks episode after getting involved with one of Durrants schemes. It would appear that Cullen was unaware of her demise.

That's the problem with no internet. I was thinking that they were going to be in for an unpleasant surprise. I was surprisingly touched by both Mei and Cullen's declarations of love. It was sad that it ended, but I think the relationship had more of an effect upon Cullen that anything in a long while, and it was sweet. I was happy that Mei got out alive.

[JackONeill]

1 hour ago, JWalker said:

Yes! Maggie Palmer was killed in last weeks episode after getting involved with one of Durrants schemes. It would appear that Cullen was unaware of her demise.

I know with this show this might sound odd for me to say, but that is just so bittersweet. Cullen's world is being depleted of friends to the point that he isn't always aware of it.

Then, to throw salt on his many wounds, Stagecoach Mary betrays him. Who the hell does he have left? He touched so many people, but now . . 

i mean, is that the  point of this show? And, what exactly, is that point? You shouldn't trust anyone? You shouldn't do people favors? Really -- what is the point?

Edited July 10, 2016 by JackONeill

[JWalker]

The writers dont seem to want Cullen to content for to long. That theme has been running through the whole series from the start.

[Ohwell]

I thought Stagecoach Mary was one of the few good people, so I was surprised and disappointed when I was proven wrong.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Cullen wound up getting blown up at the end. 

[ennui]

I gather Cullen has gotten over his issues with instant justice. He didn't drag Chang back to be hanged, like the Swede. 

When Cullen and Mei walked out of the saloon hand-in-hand, I said aloud, "Hey! Who's going to clean up this mess?" They leave dead bodies all over the place, and just ride off. I was surprised they didn't have sex on the bar before they left.

I was surprised when Mei shipped out (love you! love you, too, bye!), but now I have a prediction for the end of the series. Railroad finished, Cullen boards a ship for the Orient, to find Mei and be a Kung Fu cowboy.

(Why did they name the romantic lead "Mei"? Do we think the writers misspelled it Meh on occasion?)

[Ohwell]

4 minutes ago, ennui said:

I gather Cullen has gotten over his issues with instant justice. He didn't drag Chang back to be hanged, like the Swede.

That was the best part of the episode for me.  When he shot Chang dead, I said it's about time he finished the bad guy off instead of dragging it out.  

[TigerLynx]

I figured Mei left because she took a good long look at everyone anywhere near the railroad, saw that they were either miserable, abusing other people, or dead, and decided she would be better off far away from all of them.

[Ohwell]

Did Chang's wife/prostitute decide to stay, or did she keep the money that Mei gave her to leave?  I thought she gave the money back, so was that the money that Mei used to get away?  I got the feeling that when Mei was talking to her about leaving, she thought about herself.  Sometimes I'm watching this show and I still don't know exactly what's going on.  Also, I've long since given up on understanding mumbling Cullen.  

[kre8]

what did the note say that mei left on the bed?     it looked like Chinese writing

Edited July 10, 2016 by kre8

[Commando Cody]

Is all the limping that is going on in this show supposed to be symbolic of it limping towards the end?

That scene where Mei is walking into town with her duffel bag made me think of the TV show Kung Fu. Then Chang goes off on everybody and I'm thinking this is an episode of Kung Fu. 

I won't get into it, but I expected some much darker things to happen in this episode. I was pretty relieved when none of it happened. 

[kre8]

here's a picture of the note Mei left inside the box on the bed....  what's it sayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[paigow]

Next week, Cullen walks around Truckee Chinatown looking for a translator...for the whole hour

[beesknees]

8 hours ago, Raja said:

I am pretty sure Mei is gone story wise. All that is left is fan fiction following the life of a single mother 'war widow" who brought money back to her home in China and rises to power.

Yep.  My thoughts exactly.

[beesknees]

5 hours ago, ennui said:

I gather Cullen has gotten over his issues with instant justice. He didn't drag Chang back to be hanged, like the Swede. 

When Cullen and Mei walked out of the saloon hand-in-hand, I said aloud, "Hey! Who's going to clean up this mess?" They leave dead bodies all over the place, and just ride off. I was surprised they didn't have sex on the bar before they left.

I was surprised when Mei shipped out (love you! love you, too, bye!), but now I have a prediction for the end of the series. Railroad finished, Cullen boards a ship for the Orient, to find Mei and be a Kung Fu cowboy.

(Why did they name the romantic lead "Mei"? Do we think the writers misspelled it Meh on occasion?)

I also agree (hope) that Cullen sails to China to be with Mei.  If it doesn't happen I'm gonna be hella pissed if the last two episodes are just RR completion shit.  Oh, and I hope Cullen kills Stage Coach Mary.

[Ohwell]

It would be nice if the writers surprised the hell out of us and had Cullen sailing to China with directions on Mei's note.  Sadly, I don't see that happening.

And yeah, Stagecoach Mary is dead to me now.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Ohwell

[JWalker]

One thing is certain. Hes all alone now. All he has left is the railroad. The show has come full circle. After taking out Chang and his men he may very well end up with a bounty on his head as well.

[kre8]

Mei will send a letter saying she's pregnant and he'll sail off to China at the end...

if they actually end the show without Cullen getting a happy ending it will be the biggest shit ever.

Lily dies.....  He goes to find Naomi and wants to settle down with her.. she rejects him...    Mei leaves back to china..  

The whole "lets deprive Bohannon of any happiness" got old a long time ago.

Edited July 10, 2016 by kre8

[Raja]

4 hours ago, Commando Cody said:

Is all the limping that is going on in this show supposed to be symbolic of it limping towards the end?

That scene where Mei is walking into town with her duffel bag made me think of the TV show Kung Fu. Then Chang goes off on everybody and I'm thinking this is an episode of Kung Fu. 

I won't get into it, but I expected some much darker things to happen in this episode. I was pretty relieved when none of it happened. 

It seemed dark enough to me. After just coming off the Roots remake. we had Chang with his whip scared back, his crippling the prostitute similar to Kunta Kinte and just as soon as Bohannon and Mei find love she sees that she is in love with a killer demon and runs away.

[ethalfrida]

That song at the end depressed me. I watched the dvr version early this morning. As I fell asleep again it was playing.  I had the most depressing dream. But this season is very depressing. And I kind og laughed when Chang was fighting those guys. His opponents stoo around waiting their turn just like the Kung Fu movies. 

[TigerLynx]

I doubt the writers have actually thought this out, but if Mei was pregnant, she wouldn't go to China.  A mixed race baby would not be welcome in China.  They would face just as much as if not more discrimination in China as they would in the USA.

Once the Chinese leader and other gang members left, it amused me when the railroad guy was hemming and hawing around, and Cullen told him to just straight out ask him if he had killed Chang.  Then when he asked, Cullen just looked at him, and there was a flash of fear on the guy's face.  It reminded me of Season One when Durant said a bunch of the men working for them were deadly dangerous men who would kill without giving it a second thought, and they were all afraid of Bohannon.

[Ailianna]

I guess Stagecoach Mary isn't good enough for Psalms anymore.  And here I was hoping someone would get a good life with a strong smart woman.  But Psalms definitely deserves better!

[Inquiry]

Hmm, I have an entirely different read on Mei leaving. I think she did it because of what Bohannon told her; that he didn't lose the people he loved, he let them go. I found that line so damn tragic and revealing about how Cullen blames himself for all the people in his life being dead. He decided to leave his family and fight in the Civil War, believing that if he had not done so, he would have been able to save his wife and son. To Cullen, it probably feels like he let go of Elam (who I do think Cullen loved, in his Bohannon-ish way) when he decided to shoot the man Elam had become, instead of trying to fight for the man he was. He let go of Ruth, because in his eyes, he could have saved her (I think anyway. I freely admit to loathing the episode she died in and have blocked it out mostly). He let go of William and Naomi (I guess I'll include her). He let go of Lily by not being there for her when the Swede attacked.* Anyway, I think Mei realized that if she loved Bohannon then the best thing for her to do was to leave, because she realized her continued presence only resulted in two endings: Bohannon dying, either physically protecting her or emotionally if she died. The 500 dollar bounty on her head shows that to be true. So she let him go.

That being said, I will say that Mei is a piss poor replacement for Lily or Ruth (can't say the same about Naomi). And although I can see the actors trying (especially Momont ), I just don't think they have much chemistry. There have been some moments, but overall, the poster who called her Meh is dead on. It's also dead on regarding how I've felt about the show for a while. Honestly, if it wasn't for Ansom Momont, I would have bailed on this show at the end of season 3. Despite the shit writing that comprised the past two seasons (and that really began showing in the third), he's still able to make me care about Bohannon. The writers may have dramatically disappointed me, but he never did. The thing I hate is that this show had great potential and it was just squandered. Yet, I will watch to what I can only conclude will be a disappointing end. 

*To be clear, I think Bohannon is wrong. If he had really let his loved ones go then he wouldn't be so haunted by them. Also, 

Edited July 11, 2016 by Inquiry

[lidarose9]

5 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

I doubt the writers have actually thought this out, but if Mei was pregnant, she wouldn't go to China.  A mixed race baby would not be welcome in China.  They would face just as much as if not more discrimination in China as they would in the USA.

Maybe 9 months later, she gives birth to a little tyke who will grow up to study with Master Po and be known as Grasshopper!

[Dowel Jones]

15 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I thought Stagecoach Mary was one of the few good people, so I was surprised and disappointed when I was proven wrong

I thought so too, at the time, but on reflection, several goons rode up on her, which meant she was severely overmatched, and so she took the logical way out and accepted the bribe.  Silver or lead.

[kre8]

how would Mei be safer in China?   they don't even try to make any sense.. they just try to make everything as depressing as possible

Edited July 11, 2016 by kre8

[canthaltilt]

1 hour ago, kre8 said:

how would Mei be safer in China?   they don't even try to make any sense.. they just try to make everything as depressing as possible

there's always the slight hope he boards a ship to china at the end...   what else is he supposed to do.

If they actually did their research they would know that Cholon, a part of Chochinchina, was under French control in the late 1800's.  They could have simply had them  both sail off to there in the end.. hell they could have had them go anywhere.. Cullen had plenty of cash from his railroad investment  

 Unless they just have him hang himself at the end which isn't too far fetched considering that depressing is what they seem to always want to achieve with this show even with only 2 episodes left.

Edited July 11, 2016 by canthaltilt

[canthaltilt]

and what was the meaning of the box left on the bed by Mei?   She said in past episodes they would not return to China until that box was empty?    what was that peice of paper inside

[TigerLynx]

Quote

 Unless they just have him hang himself at the end which isn't too far fetched considering that depressing is what they seem to always want to achieve with this show even with only 2 episodes left.

If completely depressing was what they were going for, they succeeded.  However, in the process, they ignored the fact that the reason so many people migrated west was because there were opportunities for them there that they wouldn't have elsewhere.  Life was hard, but many people made a life for themselves and their families, and they were happy.

[JWalker]

I believe the box contained tea of some sort. Meis father told her when the box was empty they could go back home. The piece of paper in the box was a message I think written in Chinese. Dont know what it said. Perhaps well never know.

[canthaltilt]

if the box and letter inside had no relevance why would they show it..  unless it was just supposed to look like a good bye note written by Mei

Edited July 11, 2016 by canthaltilt

[BusyOctober]

At least Mei didn't end up horribly murdered like Cullen's 1st wife, Lilly Bell or Ruth. Naomi had to deal with a lot of shit thanks to Cullen (teen pregnancy,  death of fanily, excommunication, being terrorized by the Swede...) but she got out alive and (hopefully) will live happily ever after.  Unless he goes chasing after her, Mei should count her blessings that she caught the ship out of Cullen's circle of chaos.  

Was the point of this show to make Cullen the most depressing, unlikeable, sad sack ever?  The character has become ridiculous.  I still don't understand the "why" behind Cullen's obsession with the railroad.  He has forsaken just about everything to keep working on it, but what is the ultimate reward for him? Money? A sense of accomplishment? Hardly worth losing 4 women & his son over it.  He doesn't have any friends. He has made enemies on both sides of the Pacific. Even when he is working on the railroad, he isn't happy.  He is a miserable son of a bitch.  

I don't pay attention to who directs or writes each episode, but this last season has felt like each ep is run by a different person.  There is no flow or feeling of continuity.  This episode in particular was so odd.  Did a Quentin Tarrentino disciple direct?  Chang's Kung foo bad assery and Cullen's gunslinger in a trance scenes were so laughable.  As much as I have disliked this season, I will finish the last 2 episodes if not for any other reason than to see how many more lives Cullen Bohanon can fuck up before the final spike is driven in the continental RR.

Edited July 11, 2016 by BusyOctober
spelling counts

[canthaltilt]

  I honestly thought that after Naomi he would come back and Mei would be his final girl he stays with to the end...    Whoever keeps writing it this way are just really stupid especially when the show is over anyway..  who wants to keep watching depressing shit like this

Edited July 11, 2016 by canthaltilt

[JWalker]

Cullen may end up with Mei yet. Theres no guarantee of that though. Not on this show. Hell end up dead,alone like Durrant or with someone. These last few episodes have been a "mad rush" to wrap up the storylines which includes finishing the railroad.

[canthaltilt]

doesn't seem that way based on this Q&A with the actress who played Mei......  of course if she knows how it will end or if they'll reunite she wouldn't say anything about it.

 

Q: In the end, Mei chooses to leave Cullen and go back home to China — leaving Cullen with nothing but a tea box. What was your reaction to her decision?

A: When I read about it, I was like, “No! She’s giving up?!” [Laughs] That was my gut reaction, but I understood it. I was trying to figure out why she didn’t just take her dad’s money and leave before Cullen came back, but I guess maybe she was always holding onto hope that he would come back. She wants to have a life with him, and he turns her away. She envisioned a happy family together, and that’s really not possible. How could they get to that point? I think it dawns on her that she can’t just pretend to be a man forever. She would always be bringing trouble to him.

 

 

21 minutes ago, JWalker said:

Cullen may end up with Mei yet. Theres no guarantee of that though. Not on this show. Hell end up dead,alone like Durrant or with someone. These last few episodes have been a "mad rush" to wrap up the storylines which includes finishing the railroad.

[ennui]

22 hours ago, paigow said:

Next week, Cullen walks around Truckee Chinatown looking for a translator...for the whole hour

Only to learn that it's a recipe for fortune cookies. Cullen finishes the railroad, moves to San Francisco, and opens a bakery.

Until the quote from the actress, I had second thoughts that maybe the ship was sailing for Los Angeles, or north to Vancouver. Oh, well.