O.J.: Made In America - Part 3

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Part 3 of 5. O.J. Simpson is arrested and charged with the murders of his estranged wife and an acquaintance, setting off a saga unlike any in American history. Directed by Ezra Edelman.

[RemoteControlFreak]

18 hours ago, Tara Ariano said:

Quote

Part 3 of 5. O.J. Simpson is arrested and charged with the murders of his estranged wife and an acquaintance, setting off a saga unlike any in American history. Directed by Ezra Edelman.

I think they had been legally divorced for a couple of years by the time of the arrest, so she wasn't his estranged wife. She was his ex-wife.

[Willowsmom]

You're right Remote Control, they were divorced.

[Tara Ariano]

Tell TVGuide.com! :)

[Primetimer]

As the film moves into the trial, we're obliged to consider what we think we know.

View the full article

[smiley13]

I found it odd that the Nicole and Ron relationship was not explored.  He had been seen around town driving her car so they were more than just casual patron and waiter.  

And actually, little was ever covered about Ron's background.  Mezzaluna was a sketchy place with several people associated with it coming to violent ends to their lives.

[Midnight Cheese]

I admire Edelman's disciplined narrative, and not going into the crazy salacious "they were lovers!" kind of bull.  It seems to me that if it wasn't reasonably substantiated (e.g., we now know and read in Nicole's hand that she did have an affair with Marcus Allen), it's not coming in.  I like that.

I can't stop thinking about each episode.  Carl Douglas makes for a great, sharp interview subject.  Interesting to get all of the perspectives on Darden, on the rarity of having blood-trail evidence leading from two corpses to the charged party's bedroom, and really fascinating to see a very young Johnnie Cochran in action. 

[poeticlicensed]

I don't know if the prosecutors were really that inept re: jury selection, Fuhrman, etc, or if it just seems that way in hindsight. 

I mean seriously, when you get down to it the prosecutor wants a white jury of middle class folks (most who have jobs and kids) , yet wants to stretch the trial out  6 months and sequester them? What did they think the result was going to be?  And I am frankly appalled at the notion that there was SO much evidence to present that the trial needed to be 6 months long. This isn't a complex RICO case, with dozens of players, it is at the end of the day, as one detective put it,  your typical DV turned murder case. Volatile relationship with DV over time, final break up, murder. The only difference was that  the defendant had a high profile and $$$. I am not a lawyer, but doesn't a judge have any authority when presented with both sides potential timelines to tell that 6 months freaking unreasonable? Most murder cases only take a few weeks to try, at the outside. So if they told the judge that it would take 5 years to try the case, would that be acceptable, in the name of justice? Methinks both sides wanted time in the limelight. I think they were all starstruck, including the judge. If there was any case not to allow cameras in the courtroom, this was it. 

I didn't realize at the time of the trial that it was pretty much a no win for the state from the get go. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by poeticlicensed

[RemoteControlFreak]

1 hour ago, smiley13 said:

I found it odd that the Nicole and Ron relationship was not explored.  He had been seen around town driving her car so they were more than just casual patron and waiter.  

And actually, little was ever covered about Ron's background.  Mezzaluna was a sketchy place with several people associated with it coming to violent ends to their lives.

The film is not "Ron Goldman: Made in America."  It's not about him.  What bearing do the details of Ron and Nicole's relationship have on the story of OJ Simpson?  

As for the Mezzaluna conspiracy theory, there appear to be no facts to back up these claims.

Edited June 16, 2016 by RemoteControlFreak

[angelamh66]

I don't know if the prosecutors were really that inept re: jury selection, Fuhrman, etc, or if it just seems that way in hindsight. 

I mean seriously, when you get down to it the prosecutor wants a white jury of middle class folks (most who have jobs and kids) , yet wants to stretch the trial out  6 months and sequester them? What did they think the result was going to be?  And I am frankly appalled at the notion that there was SO much evidence to present that the trial needed to be 6 months long. This isn't a complex RICO case, with dozens of players, it is at the end of the day, as one detective put it,  your typical DV turned murder case. Volatile relationship with DV over time, final break up, murder. The only difference was that  the defendant had a high profile and $$$. I am not a lawyer, but doesn't a judge have any authority when presented with both sides potential timelines to tell that 6 months freaking unreasonable? Most murder cases only take a few weeks to try, at the outside. So if they told the judge that it would take 5 years to try the case, would that be acceptable, in the name of justice? Methinks both sides wanted time in the limelight. I think they were all starstruck, including the judge. If there was any case not to allow cameras in the courtroom, this was it. 

I didn't realize at the time of the trial that it was pretty much a no win for the state from the get go. 

A judge can always "control his docket" but in a criminal case limiting the time the defense has to present its case just hands them an issue for appeal.

[angelamh66]

Carl Douglas is an entertaining guy but I found myself getting pretty pissed at some of the things he said. I still can't believe he admitted flat out that they staged OJ's house to make him look more black. That is outrageous and Ito allowed it. Good god!!

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

As for the Mezzaluna conspiracy theory, there appear to be no facts to back up these claims.

Exactly. And even if there were some "conspiracy," who cares? It's not like it's any mystery who slaughtered Nicole and Ron. And OJ, besides murdering him, had no connection to Ron at all and, wisely, the filmmaker chose to minimize Ron's backstory.

Fucking Fuhrman. How this unapologetic racist still has a voice in a polite society - even on a network as odious as Fox News - speaks volumes for the long way we have to go in this country marginalizing these assholes.

[smiley13]

21 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

The film is not "Ron Goldman: Made in America."  It's not about him.  What bearing do the details of Ron and Nicole's relationship have on the story of OJ Simpson?  

As for the Mezzaluna conspiracy theory, there appear to be no facts to back up these claims.

I would call a few dead bodies facts.

[poeticlicensed]

5 minutes ago, angelamh66 said:

A judge can always "control his docket" but in a criminal case limiting the time the defense has to present its case just hands them an issue for appeal.

I can understand the defense, but the prosecution's case took nearly six months  to present. The defense case took 2 months. There is an entire body of literature written about juror behavior and surely an 8 month trial was inevitably going to lead to juror fatigue, something that the prosecution had to have been aware of. 

[RemoteControlFreak]

Just now, smiley13 said:

I would call a few dead bodies facts.

People die.  Sometimes people die young and by violent means.  There is no evidence that deaths of any people related to Mezzaluna  were related to the murder of Ronald Goldman.  This Google Groups discussion shows the lack of facts with regard to these rather absurd conspiracy theories.  

[smiley13]

And what about Patti Goldman's ex-husband?  A little research into the Goldman family would be interesting to me.  But these series never do that.

And for me, details of Nicole and Ron are pertinent.  Did coming upon Nicole's seduction scene make OJ snap?

[DangerousMinds]

2 hours ago, smiley13 said:

I found it odd that the Nicole and Ron relationship was not explored.  He had been seen around town driving her car so they were more than just casual patron and waiter.  

And actually, little was ever covered about Ron's background.  Mezzaluna was a sketchy place with several people associated with it coming to violent ends to their lives.

OJ didn't kill Ron because he worked at Mezzaluna.

[DangerousMinds]

28 minutes ago, smiley13 said:

I would call a few dead bodies facts.

Maybe, but completely unrelated to this case.

[hoosiermom]

I was shocked when OJ asked what were all those n______ doing in Brentwood when leaving his estate after the chase. (In the police car). I know he didn't consider himself black but that kind of puts him in the same category as Mark Fuhrman as far as the N word is concerned.

[RCharter]

1 hour ago, poeticlicensed said:

I don't know if the prosecutors were really that inept re: jury selection, Fuhrman, etc, or if it just seems that way in hindsight. 

I mean seriously, when you get down to it the prosecutor wants a white jury of middle class folks (most who have jobs and kids) , yet wants to stretch the trial out  6 months and sequester them? What did they think the result was going to be?  And I am frankly appalled at the notion that there was SO much evidence to present that the trial needed to be 6 months long. This isn't a complex RICO case, with dozens of players, it is at the end of the day, as one detective put it,  your typical DV turned murder case. Volatile relationship with DV over time, final break up, murder. The only difference was that  the defendant had a high profile and $$$. I am not a lawyer, but doesn't a judge have any authority when presented with both sides potential timelines to tell that 6 months freaking unreasonable? Most murder cases only take a few weeks to try, at the outside. So if they told the judge that it would take 5 years to try the case, would that be acceptable, in the name of justice? Methinks both sides wanted time in the limelight. I think they were all starstruck, including the judge. If there was any case not to allow cameras in the courtroom, this was it. 

I didn't realize at the time of the trial that it was pretty much a no win for the state from the get go. 

I believe the judge does have the authority, but I generally think that Ito was too gun shy to really rein it all in.  No judge wants a jury decision overturned on appeal, and if OJ had been found guilty and the defense raised the notion that a 5 week trial was inherently unfair to their client it would have been a mess.  I'm sure in hindsight Judge Ito would have done a lot differently.

From what I remember, one of the big places the prosecution went wrong was in overdoing it in trying to explain the DNA evidence.  No tea, no shade, but a lot of people who have six months for jury duty are either going to be a little older, or people that don't really have it together in life.  And that has zero to do with race, thats just the sort of jury pool you're gonna get when you ask for six months out of someone's life.  That isn't everyone, but thats generally who you get.  To get into heavy detail with the scientific aspect was probably not a great idea -- but I think that was what Marcia Clarke knew, and this was before CSI.

The prosecution should have also been a little less tone deaf regarding who they brought in to prosecute the case.  It seems like Marcia Clarke is a great prosecutor -- and I had no idea she prosecuted the Rebecca Schafer murder, but I think they probably should have brought in a black prosecutor from the start.  Preferably a black female prosecutor -- because I think Johnny Cochran is image conscious enough to where he wouldn't have tried to paint a black woman as an uncle tom.  But I think Marcia Clarke wanted a high profile, pretty much slam dunk case.

[RemoteControlFreak]

Getting back to the topic.

Ezra Edelman has done an outstanding job telling this story.  Without the use of narrator, he relies entirely on images, often just with music as the soundtrack, and interviews with primary sources.  For people familiar with the Simpson case, many of these characters (Ron Shipp, Gil Garcetti, Mark Fuhrman, Fred Goldman, etc. etc.) have been seen many times.  Edelman was able to elicit a level of revelation and emotion that no other documentarian of this case has achieved.

[smiley13]

Clark seemed to be in over her head from the beginning IMO.  As soon as they saw how focus groups disliked her, they should have known they were doomed.

[RCharter]

54 minutes ago, angelamh66 said:

Carl Douglas is an entertaining guy but I found myself getting pretty pissed at some of the things he said. I still can't believe he admitted flat out that they staged OJ's house to make him look more black. That is outrageous and Ito allowed it. Good god!!

 

I just don't think it ever even entered Ito's mind.  Everyone else was playing chess, Ito was playing checkers.

1 hour ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

The film is not "Ron Goldman: Made in America."  It's not about him.  What bearing do the details of Ron and Nicole's relationship have on the story of OJ Simpson?  

As for the Mezzaluna conspiracy theory, there appear to be no facts to back up these claims.

I think it does have bearing on the story, because these were all theories floating around at the time.  As a way for people to try to give OJ some plausible deniability.  And in retrospect some of them were just so nonsensical, but the fact that there may have been a concerted effort to put these "theories" out into the media and out to the general public is part of the story.  It all goes to how the defense played this trial as masterfully as Yoyo Ma plays the violin, how much of a concerted effort was made to turn opinion, especially in the black community, to some other theory of the crime.  And just how many people were quick to accept alternate and ridiculous versions of the crime.  And not just black people.....there were a lot of white people too, fans of his, that were all too willing to accept "well, maybe it was a drug deal gone wrong....I mean, this is the guy from Naked Gun!"

The facts aren't really the story, to me, its how these theories were disseminated and used to control image and public opinion.

[RemoteControlFreak]

7 minutes ago, hoosiermom said:

I was shocked when OJ asked what were all those n______ doing in Brentwood when leaving his estate after the chase. (In the police car). I know he didn't consider himself black but that kind of puts him in the same category as Mark Fuhrman as far as the N word is concerned.

Not at all.  It's long been accepted that when African Americans use the "n" word it has a completely different motivation and meaning than when people of other races use the word.  The same is true for members of other minority groups claiming usage of terms that are derogatory when used by others.

[RCharter]

7 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

Getting back to the topic.

Ezra Edelman has done an outstanding job telling this story.  Without the use of narrator, he relies entirely on images, often just with music as the soundtrack, and interviews with primary sources.  For people familiar with the Simpson case, many of these characters (Ron Shipp, Gil Garcetti, Mark Fuhrman, Fred Goldman, etc. etc.) have been seen many times.  Edelman was able to elicit a level of revelation and emotion that no other documentarian of this case has achieved.

I absolutely agree.  There are things I may be interested in that he doesn't cover, and things I would like to know more about (I guess Darden declined to be interviewed?) but as you, or someone else pointed out, those were his decisions to make in terms of how he told the story and so far I've been riveted by every minute.  

3 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

Not at all.  It's long been accepted that when African Americans use the "n" word it has a completely different motivation and meaning than when people of other races use the word.  The same is true for members of other minority groups claiming usage of terms that are derogatory when used by others.

agreed, but I think whats more shocking is OJ's distaste for people of his own race and the level of self-hatred it evidences.  He clearly doesn't see himself as a black person or as an "n...a" but all these people who gathered to support him....he doesn't even identify with them.  Even though they so clearly see him as part of their community.  

[smiley13]

I have no issue with the staging of the house.  It was brilliant on Cochran's part.

He can't be faulted for playing the game better than Marcia.

[hoosiermom]

26 minutes ago, RCharter said:

 

agreed, but I think whats more shocking is OJ's distaste for people of his own race and the level of self-hatred it evidences.  He clearly doesn't see himself as a black person or as an "n...a" but all these people who gathered to support him....he doesn't even identify with them.  Even though they so clearly see him as part of their community.  

Thank you. You expressed my point and feelings about this so much better than I did.

[teddysmom]

It's just the perfect storm of events for OJ to have been found not guilty.
The AA community being fed up, the LAPD handling of the crime scene and Simpson himself, moving the trial downtown instead of leaving it in Brentwood, Simpson's psychotic personality, Nicole finally standing up for herself, Ito being a starstruck media whore, the list goes on and on.

I was discussing this with a coworker yesterday and told him it's funny the jury went for reasonable doubt, but when it came to science and DNA, they wouldn't believe that there was no way blood of Nicole, Ron Goldman and OJ could just be in Simpson's bedroom and car and he not be the killer.

Lange and Furhman still defending LAPD policies is insanity. When Furhman said the Rodney King beating wouldn't have happened if they still had the choke hold I about fell off the couch. And Lange and his bullshit methods of interrogating Simpson. Just let him ramble? Really? Who taught you how to be a detective? Inspector Clouseau?

[smiley13]

I just looked more closely at the episode description.  Why is Ron referred to as an acquaintance?  He was more than that by all accounts.  People don't let an acquaintance drive their expensive car around.

[RCharter]

22 minutes ago, smiley13 said:

I just looked more closely at the episode description.  Why is Ron referred to as an acquaintance?  He was more than that by all accounts.  People don't let an acquaintance drive their expensive car around.

I had honestly never heard that (I did hear that they were more than friends).  Was everyone sure it was her car?  And wasn't Nicole dating the guy who owned Mezzaluna (I think it was mentioned in episode 2) if thats the case could it have been her ex-boyfriends car and her ex-boyfriend had just let her use it while they were dating?  

I had heard the rumor about she and Ron Goldman, but I never quite knew what the rumors were based on.  He doesn't particularly seem like her type, since she seemed to like rich, powerful men.  There is nothing wrong with that, but OJ, the guy that owned Mezzaluna, Marcus Allen....all of these men were rich and powerful.  Some waiter at a restaurant doesn't really seem her speed.  

[SpinMartyr]

  2 hours ago, angelamh66 said:

Carl Douglas is an entertaining guy but I found myself getting pretty pissed at some of the things he said. I still can't believe he admitted flat out that they staged OJ's house to make him look more black. That is outrageous and Ito allowed it. Good god!!

 

I just don't think it ever even entered Ito's mind.  Everyone else was playing chess, Ito was playing checkers.

  2 hours ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

The film is not "Ron Goldman: Made in America."  It's not about him.  What bearing do the details of Ron and Nicole's relationship have on the story of OJ Simpson?  

As for the Mezzaluna conspiracy theory, there appear to be no facts to back up these claims.

I think it does have bearing on the story, because these were all theories floating around at the time.  As a way for people to try to give OJ some plausible deniability.  And in retrospect some of them were just so nonsensical, but the fact that there may have been a concerted effort to put these "theories" out into the media and out to the general public is part of the story.  It all goes to how the defense played this trial as masterfully as Yoyo Ma plays the violin, how much of a concerted effort was made to turn opinion, especially in the black community, to some other theory of the crime.  And just how many people were quick to accept alternate and ridiculous versions of the crime.  And not just black people.....there were a lot of white people too, fans of his, that were all too willing to accept "well, maybe it was a drug deal gone wrong....I mean, this is the guy from Naked Gun!"

The facts aren't really the story, to me, its how these theories were disseminated and used to control image and public opinion.

Yo-Yo Ma plays the cello. Masterfully.

[RCharter]

Just now, SpinMartyr said:

Yo-Yo Ma plays the cello. Masterfully.

yes, thank you!  It felt so wrong when I was writing it!  My bad for not googling it.

[smiley13]

14 minutes ago, RCharter said:

I had honestly never heard that (I did hear that they were more than friends).  Was everyone sure it was her car?  And wasn't Nicole dating the guy who owned Mezzaluna (I think it was mentioned in episode 2) if thats the case could it have been her ex-boyfriends car and her ex-boyfriend had just let her use it while they were dating?  

I had heard the rumor about she and Ron Goldman, but I never quite knew what the rumors were based on.  He doesn't particularly seem like her type, since she seemed to like rich, powerful men.  There is nothing wrong with that, but OJ, the guy that owned Mezzaluna, Marcus Allen....all of these men were rich and powerful.  Some waiter at a restaurant doesn't really seem her speed.  

The car had a vanity plate so it was identified as hers, some fancy white sports car bought for her by OJ.   I can't remember what kind.

[DangerousMinds]

Casual friend, acquaintance, whatever. Hardly relevant to this series.

[Kbilly]

That people like Darden and Marcus Allen did not participate in this doc and Fuhrman still feels comfortable showing his face? Ick.

I agree Carl Douglas is entertaining but I could've done without the gloat and the sombreros and mariachi band comment. He's been making the rounds on ESPN Radio and this morning said "there was a whole other side to OJ that people didn't see"--I know it's a job and he did it to the best of his ability but it still doesn't change two people were brutally murdered and there should be some respect paid to that.

That opening, with the soundtrack of a dog barking...shivers. Also Garcetti's face of disgust watching people cheer for OJ during the chase.

Al Cowlings stepping in front of the gun for OJ (what a fun childhood game right?)--he really was one true friend.

I also really don't likr the Thurston Howell III-type OJ friend with the ascot

[TVHappy9463]

No matter what the relationship between Ron and Nicole, it doesn't matter, murder is murder. The tone of the documentary has been the social-economic-political atmosphere that lead to OJ being acquitted, and that relationship doesn't fit into the primary narrative, it would however be one more example of a jealous husband going after his x-wife. 

Karma's a bitch, and in the end he out Juiced himself, he ended up in jail, dis graced and all his friends distanced themselves. ( they had done that after the first trial) he was exiled to Florida.  What I found really shocking, is that he got custody of his kids.  I thought the Browns raised Sydney and Justin.  

Lawrence Schiller also wrote an excellent book om the subject of OJ. I suggest reading it was well.  

[RCharter]

28 minutes ago, smiley13 said:

The car had a vanity plate so it was identified as hers, some fancy white sports car bought for her by OJ.   I can't remember what kind.

Thank you, I find these things interesting because there was so much flying around at the time and it was hard to remember what it was based on.  I think its all part of the story, even if its not part of the directors narrative (which is his right)

Though, I do think its possible that since she had been dating the owner and they may have remained friends its possible that Ron Goldman was just an acquaintance she met through the guy she was dating that owned Mezzaluna and she may have let him use her car to bolster his image.  LA is VERY  image conscious and if he was trying to get investors for his restaurant, he may not have wanted to roll up in some used Mazda.  The fact that Nicole had ties to the Mezzaluna owner may have also been the reason that the restaurant sent anyone out to return those glasses.  

[RCharter]

16 minutes ago, Kbilly said:

That people like Darden and Marcus Allen did not participate in this doc and Fuhrman still feels comfortable showing his face? Ick.

I agree Carl Douglas is entertaining but I could've done without the gloat and the sombreros and mariachi band comment. He's been making the rounds on ESPN Radio and this morning said "there was a whole other side to OJ that people didn't see"--I know it's a job and he did it to the best of his ability but it still doesn't change two people were brutally murdered and there should be some respect paid to that.

That opening, with the soundtrack of a dog barking...shivers. Also Garcetti's face of disgust watching people cheer for OJ during the chase.

Al Cowlings stepping in front of the gun for OJ (what a fun childhood game right?)--he really was one true friend.

I also really don't likr the Thurston Howell III-type OJ friend with the ascot

I don't see that there is some super awesome altruistic side to OJ that we're all missing.  I wonder what Johnnie Cochran really thought about OJ.  I suspect that the biggest reason Cochran got involved is because he saw the day to day injustices of the LAPD and he was itching for a high profile case to put the LAPD on trial.  So many times the victims of police misconduct are so unlikeable and criminal that no one cares....but OJ was....OJ....and it was a trial he could make his point with.

The scenes of cheering struck me because there were so many people there who weren't black....which is interesting.   There were a lot of people who were bamboozled by OJ's celebrity status, and the information put out by the defense team as the trial went on.

I'm also fascinated by people that take the time and effort involved to buy a giant piece of paper, markers, and make a sign....drive that sign all the way down to Brentwood and wave it around....all for a guy who couldn't care less about any of them and seems to hold hatred in his heart for so many of them.

As for the Thurston Howell guy....like so many people interviewed I'm amazed by the things he is willing to say on camera to a national television audience.  They told him he was on camera right?  I wouldn't be surprised if he and OJ sat around telling and laughing over racist jokes....because, you know...OJ isn't really black.  *insert eyeroll*

[RemoteControlFreak]

2 hours ago, RCharter said:

 

I just don't think it ever even entered Ito's mind.  Everyone else was playing chess, Ito was playing checkers.

I think it does have bearing on the story, because these were all theories floating around at the time.  As a way for people to try to give OJ some plausible deniability.  And in retrospect some of them were just so nonsensical, but the fact that there may have been a concerted effort to put these "theories" out into the media and out to the general public is part of the story.  It all goes to how the defense played this trial as masterfully as Yoyo Ma plays the violin, how much of a concerted effort was made to turn opinion, especially in the black community, to some other theory of the crime.  And just how many people were quick to accept alternate and ridiculous versions of the crime.  And not just black people.....there were a lot of white people too, fans of his, that were all too willing to accept "well, maybe it was a drug deal gone wrong....I mean, this is the guy from Naked Gun!"

The facts aren't really the story, to me, its how these theories were disseminated and used to control image and public opinion.

I don't recall any theories floating around (and I followed the case and trial very closely) about specifics of Ron's relationship with Nicole other than questioning whether they were friends or more than friends.  I don't recall a single theory floating around about the lives of other Mezaluna employees Ron's step-mother's ex-husband (come on!) had any bearing on Ron's murder.  Perhaps they were out there on internet discussion boards populated by people also claiming that the US government blew up the World Trade Center on 9/11, that Barack Obama was born in Kenya, or that Elvis is still alive.  But they were not present at all in the massive mainstream coverage of the Simpson case and never even suggested by any of the attorneys on either side in the trial.

But I guess this is how conspiracy theories gain traction.  (Scientific American: Why Do People Believe in Conspiracy Theories? )

And also, how exactly does the theory that Ron and Nicole were lovers give OJ Simpson plausible deniability?  

[smiley13]

Cochran brought up the Columbian drug angle.  Mezzaluna was a known drug spot.  And then there was Faye Resnick's drug connection and the fact that she had recently stayed at the condo.  These items were pretty well publicized.

[poeticlicensed]

I watched the trial and publicity swirling around and I never heard anything about Ron and Nicole's relationship, other than as a afterthought. I do remember the defense trying to suggest that Nicole and her buddies, including Faye, were into drugs and they on more than one occasion suggested that Nicole was murdered bu drug dealers/drug lords/drug addicts/drug deal gone wrong (take your pick), but I don't remember any evidence being presented. The defense strategy was not to introduce alternate theories or try to throw suspicion elsewhere, but to tear down every single piece of evidence presented by the prosecution. 

[absolutelyido]

An interesting thing to me in this episode was that some of the people in the interviews had closer ties to the case than originally revealed. One guy was given a tag of "Brentwood resident" in an earlier episode and talked about how unusual it was to have an African American living in Brentwood. This episode we learned he was the pilot in the news helicopter following OJ's low speed chase. There is an African American woman who was first given a tag that was something like "South Central LA resident" who commented on the events that led the African American community to distrust the legal system. This episode we learned she was one of the jurors. These were both surprises to me.

[MerryMary]

Please.  Has anyone had a waiter bring a forgotten item to their house?  Something was up with those two, even if it was just flirtation at that point.  But it doesn't matter.  

Some of the details amaze me; this doc is very thorough.

[RCharter]

26 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

I don't recall any theories floating around (and I followed the case and trial very closely) about specifics of Ron's relationship with Nicole other than questioning whether they were friends or more than friends.  I don't recall a single theory floating around about the lives of other Mezaluna employees Ron's step-mother's ex-husband (come on!) had any bearing on Ron's murder.  Perhaps they were out there on internet discussion boards populated by people also claiming that the US government blew up the World Trade Center on 9/11, that Barack Obama was born in Kenya, or that Elvis is still alive.  But they were not present at all in the massive mainstream coverage of the Simpson case and never even suggested by any of the attorneys on either side in the trial.

But I guess this is how conspiracy theories gain traction.  (Scientific American: Why Do People Believe in Conspiracy Theories? )

And also, how exactly does the theory that Ron and Nicole were lovers give OJ Simpson plausible deniability?  

because, then, who knows, maybe it was some girlfriend of Ron Goldman's, or maybe it was some enemy of Ron Goldman, etc, etc.  And if the police didn't investigate these "theories" were they just always unfairly gunning for OJ all along?  If you bought into that, then you could more easily buy into the LAPD planting a glove, and just looking to bring a rich black celebrity down.   I was pretty young and I remember alternate theories.  You're right in that they were never very specific, but they were out there.  I'm not saying that the theories were right or that they had much merit.....but its more interesting in the effect they had on people and how they muddied the water of what should have been a very straightforward case with a lot of evidence.

Edited June 16, 2016 by RCharter

[RemoteControlFreak]

15 minutes ago, smiley13 said:

Cochran brought up the Columbian drug angle.  Mezzaluna was a known drug spot.  And then there was Faye Resnick's drug connection and the fact that she had recently stayed at the condo.  These items were pretty well publicized.

That had nothing to do with Ron and Nicole's relationship or with Ron at all, or with Mezzaluna .  This had to do with blaming Nicole for her own death because she associated with Faye Resnick who was a known drug user and actually was in rehab at the time of the murders.  Cochran tossed out the Colombian Necktie thing but was quickly shot down by Tom Lange in one of Lange's few victories in the case.

[RemoteControlFreak]

28 minutes ago, MerryMary said:

Please.  Has anyone had a waiter bring a forgotten item to their house?  Something was up with those two, even if it was just flirtation at that point.  But it doesn't matter.  

Some of the details amaze me; this doc is very thorough.

They were friends. This fact is not in dispute.  He wasn't just a waiter. And, in fact, he purposely declined to wait on the Simpson-Brown table at Mezzaluna on the night of the murders precisely because they were friends.

The better questions are, has anyone ever: 1) Had a friend who also worked at a business that they frequented?  2) Had a friend return a forgotten item?

Were Ron and Nicole more than just friends?  Maybe. Or maybe they were headed in that direction.  But to quote the next President of the United States, what difference does it make?

Edited June 16, 2016 by RemoteControlFreak

[RemoteControlFreak]

31 minutes ago, absolutelyido said:

An interesting thing to me in this episode was that some of the people in the interviews had closer ties to the case than originally revealed. One guy was given a tag of "Brentwood resident" in an earlier episode and talked about how unusual it was to have an African American living in Brentwood. This episode we learned he was the pilot in the news helicopter following OJ's low speed chase. There is an African American woman who was first given a tag that was something like "South Central LA resident" who commented on the events that led the African American community to distrust the legal system. This episode we learned she was one of the jurors. These were both surprises to me.

Not a guy.  The "Brentwood Native" is a woman, a trans woman.  I think she talks a little about this in Ep. 3. 

[RemoteControlFreak]

44 minutes ago, smiley13 said:

Cochran brought up the Columbian drug angle.  Mezzaluna was a known drug spot.  And then there was Faye Resnick's drug connection and the fact that she had recently stayed at the condo.  These items were pretty well publicized.

Where is there proof of Mezzaluna being "a known drug spot?"  And what do you even mean by "drug spot?"

[DangerousMinds]

41 minutes ago, RCharter said:

because, then, who knows, maybe it was some girlfriend of Ron Goldman's, or maybe it was some enemy of Ron Goldman, etc, etc.  And if the police didn't investigate these "theories" were they just always unfairly gunning for OJ all along?  If you bought into that, then you could more easily buy into the LAPD planting a glove, and just looking to bring a rich black celebrity down.   I was pretty young and I remember alternate theories.  You're right in that they were never very specific, but they were out there.  I'm not saying that the theories were right or that they had much merit.....but its more interesting in the effect they had on people and how they muddied the water of what should have been a very straightforward case with a lot of evidence.

Except that the jury was sequestered and was not supposed to hear or consider most of those insane theories. They made a mockery of our justice system.

[RCharter]

2 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Except that the jury was sequestered and was not supposed to hear or consider most of those insane theories. They made a mockery of our justice system.

but at what point was the jury sequestered and how early on were these theories floating around?

I think a lot of people used this trial to make a point, OJ was not someone that was worthy of making the point for.

Unfortunately I think a lot of people make a mockery of the justice system: the judge who decided that the woman who shot Latasha Harris (?) should only get probation for shooting a woman in the back of the head, the judge in the Brock Turner case, almost everyone in the Casey Anthony case, the jury who decided that somehow the beating of Rodney King was okay, the officers in the Rodney King case who went back and wrote reports that didn't even mention what happened.