Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[SimoneS]

The Ironborn must be beating Theon because he abandoned Yara or they think that he did or blame him for their defeat. They followed her, not him, when they committed treason and abandoned Euron. If Yara is indeed lost, they would be understandably furious.

This means the leaker has gotten a lot right. The leaker has got to have been a crew member at some point. 

Edited October 29, 2016 by SimoneS

[Eyes High]

The Ironborn dude beating Theon up appears to be the same dude who was on Theon's boat (he's the one with the long robes). So what does he do, politely escort Theon to Dragonstone with the Ironborn after what we can likely assume is Theon's decision to abandon Yara and then beat the shit out of him? Or does he beat the shit out of Theon and then Theon says something to spare his life and leads the Ironborn dude to agree to deliver Theon to Dragonstone?

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Onward to Italica, where the cast sightings are sure to be interesting.

Tentative list of whom we can definitely expect at the dragonpit (by character):

Cersei, the Mountain, Jaime, Jon, Davos, Jorah, Gendry, the Hound, Brienne, Dany, Tyrion, Missandei, Grey Worm

Sounds like a big crowd. The leaker also said that Euron would make a brief appearance. At least WOTW reports that there will be more than one scene.

5 hours ago, SeanC said:

The bulk of the spoiler discussion to date has been dominated by the Team Stark photo leaks set at Winterfell (one assumes) and all the new Dragonstone filming, so to take another tack, have we seen much/anything of NCW yet?  Nothing springs to mind.

No, but we should. Jaime's at the dragonpit and it seems all but confirmed at this point that he's involved in the ambush sequence to be filmed in Caceres.

[SeanC]

Just now, Eyes High said:

The Ironborn dude beating Theon up appears to be the same dude who was on Theon's boat (he's the one with the long robes). So what does he do, politely escort Theon to Dragonstone with the Ironborn after what we can likely assume is Theon's decision to abandon Yara and then beat the shit out of him? Or does he beat the shit out of Theon and then Theon says something to spare his life and leads the Ironborn dude to agree to deliver Theon to Dragonstone?

If it's the same guy, despite losing any respect for him, I guess his men figure they're stuck with Daenerys since they sided against Euron.  Or, plot fiat.  If it's in 701, it can't be before he gets to Dragonstone.

WOTW's summation of the next round of Spanish filming, where they note that there will be many other castmembers present at the Dragonpit than those already confirmed.

[Eyes High]

8 minutes ago, SeanC said:

If it's the same guy, despite losing any respect for him, I guess his men figure they're stuck with Daenerys since they sided against Euron.  Or, plot fiat.  If it's in 701, it can't be before he gets to Dragonstone.

WOTW's summation of the next round of Spanish filming, where they note that there will be many other castmembers present at the Dragonpit than those already confirmed.

WOTW has been pretty clear about there being many characters at the dragonpit scene other than the ones already named. Given filming info reported by L7R and WOTW spoilers, the Mountain, Cersei and Jaime's presence are a given. If Dany and Missandei are there, we can also include Tyrion, Grey Worm, and maybe Varys. If the leaker is right, we should expect to see not only Davos and Brienne, but also Jon, Jorah, Gendry and the Hound.

That's what, 14 characters, including the Lannisters plus Jon and Dany? That's pretty much everyone who's left at this point other than the younger Starks, Sam, and Theon. I think the leaker's probably correct that Ellaria, the Sand Snakes, Olenna and Yara will be killed off early on in Season 7.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Eyes High

[amandawoods]

I'm really surprised how large the cast still is after season 7, according to the leaks.  I thought we were going to lose more this season.   

[SeanC]

5 minutes ago, amandawoods said:

I'm really surprised how large the cast still is after season 7, according to the leaks.  I thought we were going to lose more this season.   

If the leaks are correct on all points, the one survival that really surprises me is Cersei.  Other than that, I don't think there was any death I particularly expected to happen.

[CofCinci]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

WOTW has been pretty clear about there being many characters at the dragonpit scene other than the ones already named. Given filming info reported by L7R and WOTW spoilers, the Mountain, Cersei and Jaime's presence are a given. If Dany and Missandei are there, we can also include Tyrion, Grey Worm, and maybe Varys. If the leaker is right, we should expect to see not only Davos and Brienne, but also Jon, Jorah, Gendry and the Hound.

That's what, 14 characters, including the Lannisters plus Jon and Dany? That's pretty much everyone who's left at this point other than the younger Starks, Sam, and Theon. I think the leaker's probably correct that Ellaria, the Sand Snakes, Olenna and Yara will be killed off early on in Season 7.

With the Hound and the Mountain present at the dragon pit scene.... 

[amandawoods]

They can pretty much end the season there and I'd be happy. 

[glowbug]

I thought Cersei would be killed off this season and I thought there was a good chance Jamie would be as well. I'll be happy if the spoilers are correct about him joining the fight against the WW even if he's leaving Cersei far too late. At least it gives me hope for his book counterpart. I'm disappointed he's sticking by Cersei for most of the season after everything she's done. The writers have really destroyed his character. 

[anamika]

10 hours ago, glowbug said:

I thought Cersei would be killed off this season and I thought there was a good chance Jamie would be as well. I'll be happy if the spoilers are correct about him joining the fight against the WW even if he's leaving Cersei far too late. At least it gives me hope for his book counterpart. I'm disappointed he's sticking by Cersei for most of the season after everything she's done. The writers have really destroyed his character. 

I am not a Jaime fan, but I feel for those who are. D and D's love for Cersei and their writing to keep Lena Headey around till the very end has had, I am sure, a large effect on Jaime's story arc. Personally, I have become bored of Cersei and was hoping we would get new blood in KL for at least one season before the show ends. It would have been interesting to see Dany tackle KL and Westeros as Queen.  From the spoilers we still get Lannisters in KL at the end of the season and if the focus next season shifts to the WW, then I think we will have Lannisters in KL till the penultimate episode which is rather dull. Why is it even the 'Game of Thrones' if one family holds the IT over the entire series.

15 hours ago, Eyes High said:

WOTW has been pretty clear about there being many characters at the dragonpit scene other than the ones already named. Given filming info reported by L7R and WOTW spoilers, the Mountain, Cersei and Jaime's presence are a given. If Dany and Missandei are there, we can also include Tyrion, Grey Worm, and maybe Varys. If the leaker is right, we should expect to see not only Davos and Brienne, but also Jon, Jorah, Gendry and the Hound.

What Brienne is doing there is still a complete mystery given she is not involved in the Wight mission, not part of Lannister gang, Dany gang or Jon gang. Since she has scenes with Jaime, maybe she is there for a completely different purpose and gets mixed up in the conference by mistake.

23 hours ago, Eyes High said:

It's not surprising that Sophie and Maisie would have a break if all the action is in Spain at the moment. Season 7 filming is scheduled to take about as long as Season 6 filming (six months, albeit September-February as opposed to July-December) but resulting in 30% less content. It makes sense that they would have extended breaks during this period where not much was being filmed. I also expect Sophie and Maisie to sit out the Iceland filming.

I think Sophie has said that she will be filming till January and Emilia mentioned that she is filming till February. But Sophie also started filming much earlier, before the Emmys while Kit and Emilia only started after. And maybe Sophie and Maisie were hanging out together all the time because they were filming together at that time.

[Eyes High]

Recent set construction at Moneyglass. They've been shooting there for a while (Ellie Kendrick was snapped in costume at the Moneyglass set long ago), so I guess Winterfell undergoes some changes over the course of the season.

One of the executive producers for GOT, Peter Welter, told El Diario Vasco that certain scenes they planned to shoot in Itzurun they're going to shoot instead in Northern Ireland.

[SeanC]

32 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Recent set construction at Moneyglass. They've been shooting there for a while (Ellie Kendrick was snapped in costume at the Moneyglass set long ago), so I guess Winterfell undergoes some changes over the course of the season.

I would guess they were just filming on a different part of it than whatever is getting revised, unless Sansa's dressmaking skills also make her an expert stonemason who can transform the castle's walls in a short span, I suppose.

[Eyes High]

It's confirmed that the actors for Jon, Dany, Davos, Missandei, Grey Worm, Varys, Theon, Jorah, and Jaime are either in Seville or headed there for filming. We should also expect at the very least the actors for Tyrion, Cersei, the Mountain, and Brienne. It seems likely if Jon and Jorah are confirmed to be present at the dragonpit scene that Gendry and the Hound will show up as well (assuming the leak is correct). We should also expect to see Jeremy Podeswa in Seville if the dragonpit scene is indeed in 7x07.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

Harington and Glen's presence in the area is certainly another point in favour of the leaks.

If Rory McCann shows up, that'll be the point where anyone denying that the stuff about Jon's plot is basically accurate will really be stretching.

[feefee]

8 hours ago, anamika said:

I am not a Jaime fan, but I feel for those who are. D and D's love for Cersei and their writing to keep Lena Headey around till the very end has had, I am sure, a large effect on Jaime's story arc. Personally, I have become bored of Cersei and was hoping we would get new blood in KL for at least one season before the show ends. It would have been interesting to see Dany tackle KL and Westeros as Queen.  From the spoilers we still get Lannisters in KL at the end of the season and if the focus next season shifts to the WW, then I think we will have Lannisters in KL till the penultimate episode which is rather dull. Why is it even the 'Game of Thrones' if one family holds the IT over the entire series.

What Brienne is doing there is still a complete mystery given she is not involved in the Wight mission, not part of Lannister gang, Dany gang or Jon gang. Since she has scenes with Jaime, maybe she is there for a completely different purpose and gets mixed up in the conference by mistake.

I think Sophie has said that she will be filming till January and Emilia mentioned that she is filming till February. But Sophie also started filming much earlier, before the Emmys while Kit and Emilia only started after. And maybe Sophie and Maisie were hanging out together all the time because they were filming together at that time.

I think Daenerys' House of Undying vision gives a clue about Season 8. First of all, we see that she rejects the throne herself to go North which fits her not overthrowing Cersei in season 7 and instead focusing on the white walkers. Furthermore the throne room is destroyed and snowy. I am starting to think the White Walkers will make it to King's Landing in Season 8. Afterall, there has to be a reason why they are keeping Cersei alive in Season 8 by herself in Kings Landing. I highly doubt that they're just going to have Cersei sit and do nothing in King's Landing in Season 8 while all other main characters are in the North fighting the White Walkers. Maybe the Night's King rides Viserion to King's Landing.

And honestly I do not believe that Daenerys will ever sit the Iron Throne in the books either. And neither do I think its because of Cersei that Jaime's character has been ruined. For whatever reason, D&D did not want to do Jaime's book plot the same way they didn't want to do Sansa's book plot

I also don't agree with this notion that Jaime is a more important character than Cersei.

[Eyes High]

14 hours ago, SeanC said:

Harington and Glen's presence in the area is certainly another point in favour of the leaks.

If Rory McCann shows up, that'll be the point where anyone denying that the stuff about Jon's plot is basically accurate will really be stretching.

WOTW just reported that the actors for Jaime, Brienne, Pod and Bronn are either in Seville or on the way. So now we have this (bolding the ones who are confirmed to be in Seville or on their way):

Cersei, Jaime, Bronn, the Mountain

Tyrion, Dany, Missandei, Varys, Grey Worm

Jon, Davos, Theon, Brienne, Pod, Jorah, Gendry, the Hound

18 named characters. Whew! I'm still iffy on Gendry and the Hound (that's leaks-only information), but everyone else should be there.

Peter Dinklage left Bilbao earlier than the rest of the group. He should be in Seville soon, though.

I'm curious as to how they're going to shoot the dragonpit scenes if both Cersei and Bronn are there and Jerome Flynn and Lena Headey refuse to shoot scenes together as they always have. Las Atarazanas is doubling for the dragonpit, and we know there are at least two scenes taking place at the dragonpit, so maybe Bronn only shows up when Jaime is meeting with Brienne, or something...?

Edited October 31, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

18 named characters. Whew! I'm still iffy on Gendry and the Hound (that's leaks-only information), but everyone else should be there.

I believe Euron's also supposed to be there, at least according to the leaks.

Since Jon, Davos and Jorah are there, and we saw them going boating with Gendry, it's reasonable to expect Gendry's presence (unless he's come to a bad end in the intervening span).  The Hound, who the leaks say they pick up on their trip north, will be the real tell.

Edited October 31, 2016 by SeanC

[GrailKing]

Directors for S7: From WOTW this morning.

Without further ado, here is the director-episode line-up for season 7:

Episode 1: Jeremy Podeswa

Episode 2: Mark Mylod

Episode 3: Mark Mylod

Episode 4: Matt Shakman

Episode 5: Matt Shakman

Episode 6: Alan Taylor

Episode 7: Jeremy Podeswa

[SeanC]

That's what I was expecting.  I wonder if there were logistical issues that meant that the same person couldn't direct episodes 1 & 2?  Possibly relating to the big battle that is apparently happening in the early going of the season?

Or possibly they wanted Alan Taylor to just direct one episode and that threw off the possibility of everybody working sequentially.  Now that I think about it, the potential wight hunt would be in episode 6; that's certainly the sort of thing Taylor would be used for.

Honestly, I'm more and more convinced the wight hunt is true (even if perhaps not all the details).  The fact that the huge battle sequence is being placed early in the season means the writers will need something more spectacular toward the end.  And it won't be another huge battle sequence.  Then we have Jon, Davos, Gendry and Jorah sailing off together on a mission of some sort, and three of those four characters confirmed to be back in KL by the season's end.

Edited October 31, 2016 by SeanC

[Eyes High]

A Seville Twitter user posted a few tweets indicating that he saw Peter, Liam, Conleth, Gwendoline and Kit today. My list of characters who are expected at the dragonpit scene (with the characters whose actors are confirmed to be heading to or to have arrived in Seville bolded), updated:

Cersei, Jaime, Bronn, the Mountain, Euron

Tyrion, Dany, Missandei, Varys, Grey Worm

Jon, Davos, Theon, Brienne, Pod, Jorah, Gendry, the Hound

I agree with SeanC that the kicker here is Rory McCann. If he shows up in Seville, that will all but confirm the leaker's version of the dragonpit scene and Jon's Season 7 plot.

On another note, there are more pictures of Theon's skirmish with the Ironborn dude. At some point, Theon or someone else knocks out the other guy, since there was a picture of the Ironborn dude lying at a bloodied Theon's feet. If this is from Episode 1 (it's either 1 or 7, since Podeswa directed these scenes), maybe the Ironborn are mad at Theon for fucking up (thus the beatdown), but he somehow comes to terms with them (maybe by knocking out his attacker), and some of them accompany him to Dragonstone (including the dude who beat him up).

Edited October 31, 2016 by Eyes High

[Love]

This info gets me closer to my dream scene featuring Jon, Jaime, Bronn & Davos hanging out in a bar (or whatever they're called in Westeros),  drinking. 

[bunnyblue]

20 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Jon, Davos, Theon, Brienne, Pod, Jorah, Gendry, the Hound

I agree with SeanC that the kicker here is Rory McCann. If he shows up in Seville, that will all but confirm the leaker's version of the dragonpit scene and Jon's Season 7 plot.

I agree with both of you that McCann's presence in Seville will be critical in confirming that part of the leaks.

However, are we sure Gendry will also be there? The leaker said he would only appear in 2 episodes and he's already been spotted filming 2 scenes (that I assume are from the same episode, 7x05): the KL beach scene with Davos & Tyrion, and the Dragonstone departure scene with Jon and Co. If Gendry's other appearance is in 7x06, the wight hunt expedition, then he shouldn't be at the dragonpit scene in 7x07. Honestly, I don't think Gendry is really needed in that scene anyway. It would make sense if he simply stays up North after the wight expedition, either so he can reunite with Arya in S8 or he chooses to stay with whatever is left of the BwB at Eastwatch. 

[Eyes High]

17 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

I agree with both of you that McCann's presence in Seville will be critical in confirming that part of the leaks.

However, are we sure Gendry will also be there? The leaker said he would only appear in 2 episodes and he's already been spotted filming 2 scenes (that I assume are from the same episode, 7x05): the KL beach scene with Davos & Tyrion, and the Dragonstone departure scene with Jon and Co. If Gendry's other appearance is in 7x06, the wight hunt expedition, then he shouldn't be at the dragonpit scene in 7x07. Honestly, I don't think Gendry is really needed in that scene anyway. It would make sense if he simply stays up North after the wight expedition, either so he can reunite with Arya in S8 or he chooses to stay with whatever is left of the BwB at Eastwatch. 

If Davos is there, not to mention the other members of Operation Wight Retrieval, I don't see why Gendry would be somewhere else. With that said, there's no sign of Joe Dempsie in Seville, so it's possible that he takes off after the encounter with the wights (or that he doesn't survive it, although the leaker claimed that only Thoros died).

Reading between the lines, if the leaker is right about Season 7 closing out with Jon and Dany--and, I think we can assume, the rest of Team Jon/Dany in the southern storyline--heading north, then it seems likely that Season 8 will start with a bunch of reunions and first meetings at Winterfell: Jon/Arya, Jon/Bran, Theon/Sansa, Sandor/Sansa, Dany/Starks, etc. It would make sense to throw in Arya/Gendry with the rest of these momentous reunions rather than have Gendry off doing his own thing.

Season 8 should be able to speed through plot pretty quickly if all the major characters are up north more or less in one place. Still, even if 8x01 opens with Jon and Dany arriving at Winterfell, five episodes to beat the WW plus what I imagine will be one episode of denouement seems awfully ambitious.

ETA: Someone just tweeted that they saw "Jaime" and "the Hound" in Seville.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Eyes High

[Wouter]

On 30-10-2016 at 11:34 PM, feefee said:

I think Daenerys' House of Undying vision gives a clue about Season 8. First of all, we see that she rejects the throne herself to go North which fits her not overthrowing Cersei in season 7 and instead focusing on the white walkers.

It would be consistent with the leaks. If so, it is an indication that D&D may have been planning this (Dany joining the fight against the WW, even before she has taken KL) since S2. Which in turn may mean that GRRM has been planning something similar, even though Aegon is a major complication in the books. Maybe Aegon will hold KL in the books, if/when Dany joins with Jon to fight the Others.

Still zero indication so far that Tyrion will bond with a dragon? The absence of such an indication is my main surprise for S7, so far. Especially if Viserion already bites it.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Wouter

[Eyes High]

7 minutes ago, Wouter said:

It would be consistent with the leaks. If so, it is an indication that D&D may have been planning this (Dany joining the fight against the WW, even before she has taken KL) since S2. Which in turn may mean that GRRM has been planning something similar, even though Aegon is a major complication in the books. Maybe Aegon will hold KL in the books, if/when Dany joins with Jon to fight the Others.

Still zero indication so far that Tyrion will bond with a dragon? The absence of such an indication is my main surprise for S7, so far. Especially if Viserion already bites it.

Yes, it looks like Viserion dies without having been ridden. There's no suggestion in the leaks that Tyrion will bond with a dragon in Season 7 (which sort of makes me wonder what the whole point of Tyrion's dragon scene in Season 6 was, other than to secure another Emmy nom for Peter Dinklage). It's clear that he's left behind when Jon heads out on his mission. Dany comes to Jon's rescue (supposedly), but as far as I can tell according to the leaks Tyrion stays south.

The leaker said that Jon pets Drogon, but photo leaks from the shoot suggest that it's Rhaegal (from the colour of the dragon head used as a reference for the CGI people).

It does look as if we'll get a Tyrion/Pod reunion at the dragonpit in addition to a Bronn/Tyrion reunion earlier in the season, though, which is great. There will be another set of reunions if Jon goes to Winterfell in early Season 8 as I imagine he will (Jon/Arya, Jon/Bran, Jon/Sansa, Sandor/Sansa, etc. etc.).

[blixie]

Quote

 think we can assume, the rest of Team Jon/Dany in the southern storyline--heading north, then it seems likely that Season 8 will start with a bunch of reunions and first meetings at Winterfell: Jon/Arya, Jon/Bran, Theon/Sansa, Sandor/Sansa, Dany/Starks, etc. It would make sense to throw in Arya/Gendry with the rest of these momentous reunions rather than have Gendry off doing his own thing.

Isn't there still some debate about where Arya will be (that she might head south with Brienne?) Or is she definitively at Winterfell for the duration of S7? I would like those two to  hook up with the Wight Expedition, maybe Jon intercedes before she tries to take out Cersei, and she's finally able to put the last vestiges of her vengeance behind her? 

[SeanC]

2 minutes ago, blixie said:

Isn't there still some debate about where Arya will be (that she might head south with Brienne?) Or is she definitively at Winterfell for the duration of S7? I would like those two to  hook up with the Wight Expedition, maybe Jon intercedes before she tries to take out Cersei, and she's finally able to put the last vestiges of her vengeance behind her? 

According to the Reddit leak, the only leak thus far that's had anything verifiably true in it, Arya stays in Winterfell all season (at least, after getting there).  A rival claim that she goes south is unsubstantiated.

[Eyes High]

44 minutes ago, blixie said:

Isn't there still some debate about where Arya will be (that she might head south with Brienne?) Or is she definitively at Winterfell for the duration of S7? I would like those two to  hook up with the Wight Expedition, maybe Jon intercedes before she tries to take out Cersei, and she's finally able to put the last vestiges of her vengeance behind her? 

Maisie's been in Belfast at the same time as Sophie for the past few weeks. It seems very likely that they've been filming quite a bit together.

According to the leaks, Arya starts the season in the Riverlands, but makes her way to Winterfell pretty quickly (after Jon has left, of course), and spends the rest of the season dealing with Sansa and Littlefinger.

One of the Redditors who was PMing the leaker before he erased his account, KaySen761, just posted the messages that the leaker had sent him in response to KaySen761's questions. Additional details from those messages, some of which I've already posted, paraphrased by me (comments in brackets are mine):

1. The Hound doesn't want to go near Winterfell, especially when he hears that Brienne is there. [Although doesn't he see Brienne at the dragonpit?] The Hound chops the wight in half during the demonstration, and Jon demonstrates how it can be killed. Qyburn and the Mountain are here for this.

2. Arya takes Walder Frey's face, holds a banquet for all his family, and poisons every last Frey son (she spares the women, though).

3. The captured wight is not Beric or Thoros' reanimated body.

4. Davos waits as Eastwatch while Jon, Jorah, Beric, Thoros, the Hound and Gendry go wight hunting. This will involve a battle with a wight polar bear, which kills Thoros. They are surrounded and about to be killed by the NK's army when Dany shows up on her dragons and flies everyone except Jon back to Eastwatch. Jon is left behind and is almost killed when Benjen shows up and sacrifices his life to save him. [Random Benjen?] NK brings Viserion down with an ice spear. The wights drag him from the lake and NK reanimates him. End of the season has the NK riding Viserion and breathing blue flame at the Wall, which crumbles. Gendry is asked to run back to Eastwatch just before they battle the wight army. [I guess he stays at Eastwatch?] The Hound, Jorah and Tormund (as well as the captured wight) escape on Drogon. It's while Jon is comforting Dany over the loss of Viserion that he decides to pledge himself to her.

5. Alys Karstark and Umber Jr. are brought before Jon in 7x01. Sansa and the Northern lords expect him to strip them of their lands and give them to Lyanna Mormont and the other lords who supported Jon, but Jon refuses and asks the young heirs for their loyalty, which they give. Leaker said that Jon's "not vindictive at all, unlike Sansa."

6. 7x01 ends with Dany and her fleet landing at Dragonstone and Dany walking up to Stannis' war room.

The biggest sticking point left for the leaks is that big parade sequence that was supposed to be filmed in Dubrovnik (before the producers changed location). There is a big crowd scene set to be filmed in Caceres in a few weeks, which is doubling for KL in Season 7, requiring close to 500 extras, so there's definitely something happening. The leaker has said nothing about a big parade, despite having provided detailed information for the southern storyline in every other respect.

It will be very difficult to conceal information about the crowd scene given all the extras and the fact that it's filmed in the open, so we'll know soon enough. It's very odd that the leaker seems to know about every other exterior scene filmed but has no clue about this big sequence.

38 minutes ago, SeanC said:

According to the Reddit leak, the only leak thus far that's had anything verifiably true in it, Arya stays in Winterfell all season (at least, after getting there).  A rival claim that she goes south is unsubstantiated.

That rival claim is from a poster, starkandlannister, who last posted 10 days ago (before the flood of spoilers discrediting him/her came out), whose claims have been thoroughly debunked by this point. Starkandlannister initially claimed that they knew for "a fact" that Jon didn't go to Dragonstone, which is obviously untrue. Starkandlannister claimed that "at least half" of what the leaker said about Jon and Dany's storyline was wrong (false); that Jon doesn't go south in Episode 2 (false); and that Jon will be at the Wall in the finale (false). Starkandlannister also claimed that either Arya or Cersei would die (Cersei looks safe now that the dragonpit scene leak has been all but confirmed, so this is also false).

Starkandlannister from all indications was a disgruntled Jon/Sansa shipper insisting that Jon was going to fall in love with Sansa in Season 7, even as the poster admitted that Jon/Dany sex might happen. Since information appeared confirming some of the leaks, another Jon/Sansa shipper, WindsofWinterr, appeared on /Freefolk claiming to have inside information as well, spinning similar tales, posting other fake spoilers (Arya stays in the Riverlands for most of the season, reuniting with the Hound and Melisandre, e.g.). It was pretty funny, actually.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

4 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

2. Arya takes Walder Frey's face, holds a banquet for all his family, and poisons every last Frey son (she spares the women, though).

That seems kind of redundant after the Season 6 finale (seems like it could have been one scene), but I guess if they're delaying Arya getting to Winterfell she has to have something splashy to do in the meantime.  Assuming it's true, of course.

Edited November 1, 2016 by SeanC

[Eyes High]

6 minutes ago, SeanC said:

That seems kind of redundant after the Season 6 finale (seems like it could have been one scene), but I guess if they're delaying Arya getting to Winterfell she has to have something splashy to do in the meantime.

Agreed and agreed.

The funny thing about the leaker is that for someone with as much inside information as he has, he really doesn't seem to know all that much about the show: he got Beric and Thoros mixed up, he consistently misspelled Targaryen as Targareyon, he provided spoilers about Arya in the Riverlands but then denied that anything happened in the Riverlands in Season 7 (suggesting he doesn't know what the Riverlands are), etc. The more information is confirmed, the more I wonder what his deal is.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

Oh, and this message seems to explain (kind of) why Gendry supposedly isn't in King's Landing at the end, though I'm curious as to why.  Maybe he's going to arrive dramatically in episode 801 to let the people at Winterfell know he saw the Wall fall?

[Eyes High]

Updated roll call, with those who are confirmed to be in or filming in Seville bolded, and those who have been the subject of unconfirmed sightings in italics:

Cersei, Jaime, Bronn, the Mountain, Qyburn, Euron

Tyrion, Dany, Missandei, Varys, Grey Worm

Jon, Davos, Theon, Brienne, Pod, Jorah, Gendry, the Hound

WOTW also reports that Tycho Nestoris will visit Cersei to warn her that the debt is due. WOTW also reports that Cersei's way of dealing with the debt "will have substantial ramifications in the story." Hm. Does she have Tycho executed and have a hit taken out on her by the FM at the Iron Bank's request as a result?

Edited November 1, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

34 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

WOTW also reports that Tycho Nestoris will visit Cersei to warn her that the debt is due. WOTW also reports that Cersei's way of dealing with the debt "will have substantial ramifications in the story." Hm. Does she have Tycho executed and have a hit taken out on her by the FM at the Iron Bank's request as a result?

Maybe she decides to sell enemy civilians into slavery to pay off the debt?  There was that spoiler report a while ago that said that female extras had been told they would be playing slaves, which doesn't really fit Westeros at present.  I'm not sure about "substantial ramifications", but that would certainly piss off Dany.

Also, Joe Dempsie has been sighted in Seville (not visually confirmed yet), but Seville is more than just the Dragonpit, so he may be filming scenes from his time with Davos and Tyrion.  Or the leaks may be wrong on that point.

EDIT:  Nope, Joe Dempsie is in Brazil still.  So he's not filming in Seville as yet.

Edited November 1, 2016 by SeanC

[OhOkayWhat]

I imagine the whole new Arya-Frey scene taking only 10 minutes of screentime. If that is true and Arya arrives Winterfell in episode 7x04 that means Arya will have only 10 minutes of screentime the first 3 episodes and maybe 1 single scene. I have my doubts about that in this short season.

Another thing that seems a bit odd is the BwB being part only of episode 6 and 7. We know nothing about them and the Hound the previous episodes.

Also, about the many meetings early season 8, it is also possible all those people will not meet, Jon will try to organize the defense, maybe not only in Winterfell, but also in Dreadfort and maybe even Bear Island, White Harbor and different places in the North and Riverlands. If that happens, maybe he will send the warriors to different places too.

[SeanC]

McCann's presence in Seville is now confirmed.  I don't think any reasonable person can say the leaker doesn't have some inside information at this point.

[blixie]

Quote

According to the leaks, Arya starts the season in the Riverlands, but makes her way to Winterfell pretty quickly (after Jon has left, of course), and spends the rest of the season dealing with Sansa and Littlefinger.

UGH I hate this I feel like Masie and Arya have had shit to do since she left The Hound to die, and I was so excited she had turned a corner and would get to finish out her list and reunite with Jon and/or Gendry, and I'd love to see her spend actual time with Brienne who is non traditional Westeros role model. Bleh. I have zero interest in her getting caught up in boring LF/Sansa bullshit. I just don't get why she'd want to twiddle her thumbs there, when she could be killing Cersei or helping Jon fight the wights, I can't see her wanting a piece of that (he'd fight her on that but she'd try to get around him).

Luckily Jon and Dany fucking while the wall comes down will make up for a lot. Everything with that story is gangbusters. 

The one thing I don't get is why Cersei needs a demonstration that what is dead can live again when the damn dead Mountain is right there after being reanimated by Qyburn? I mean I guess from their POV that's "science" vs. mythical magic mojo? Eh I realize she doesn't actually care either way, but I hope there is no point where she really questions if wights could exist or is shocked when they do.

[bunnyblue]

6 minutes ago, SeanC said:

 

McCann's presence in Seville is now confirmed.  I don't think any reasonable person can say the leaker doesn't have some inside information at this point.

 

Yay!! I'd been waiting for this. Now if we could only get a picture of a wight in the Italica amphitheater. I want to see the meltdowns. And I agree, no reasonable person can deny the leaker has some inside info, but the internet is not inhabited by reasonable people.

Wall-shattering boat sex here we come!! LOL.

5 minutes ago, blixie said:

I'd love to see her spend actual time with Brienne who is non traditional Westeros role model. Bleh. I have zero interest in her getting caught up in boring LF/Sansa bullshit.

I feel your pain. I really thought Arya would have her own adventures in the Riverlands with the BwB before heading to Winterfell where she'd reunite with her family (Jon in particular). Unfortunately, she's going to be stuck in WF hell with LF and Sansa. I love Arya but I'd rather she deal with the LF bullshit instead of Jon - which is what I thought was going to be Jon's plot in S7. Arya's position as a Stark is far more secure than Jon's, so there's no doubt she'll get the upper hand with LF.

As for Arya spending time with Brienne, it seems that will happen. Brienne won't leave WF until the end of the season, so she and Arya should share some scenes before then. If you believe the leaker, there should be a sparring match between them, which sounds fun.

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

1. The Hound doesn't want to go near Winterfell, especially when he hears that Brienne is there.

I forgot to say, in the ongoing debate around SanSan, that's got to hurt adherents to the theory.  If that's true, the only remaining viable approach to it that I could see is if they basically do the whole thing once (if?) the two meet up in Season 8.  In theory that would be better storytelling than pretending they had actually had meaningful interactions in Seasons 1-2, I guess, but we're getting pretty close to the end for such a development (counter-argument to that, I guess, would be that maybe they imagine that being Sansa's main plot in Season 8 with Littlefinger gone and the other leads doing supernatural shit).

[SeanC]

14 minutes ago, blixie said:

I just don't get why she'd want to twiddle her thumbs there, when she could be killing Cersei or helping Jon fight the wights, I can't see her wanting a piece of that (he'd fight her on that but she'd try to get around him).

She wouldn't have any opportunity to go with Jon.  They sail from Dragonstone to Eastwatch; probably Winterfell doesn't even know what's happening.

Anyway, if she thinks something's amiss at Stark Central, she'd obviously want to sort things out.

[Eyes High]

25 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I forgot to say, in the ongoing debate around SanSan, that's got to hurt adherents to the theory.  If that's true, the only remaining viable approach to it that I could see is if they basically do the whole thing once (if?) the two meet up in Season 8.  In theory that would be better storytelling than pretending they had actually had meaningful interactions in Seasons 1-2, I guess, but we're getting pretty close to the end for such a development (counter-argument to that, I guess, would be that maybe they imagine that being Sansa's main plot in Season 8 with Littlefinger gone and the other leads doing supernatural shit).

It is pretty close to the end, I agree, but on the other hand, the show will be focused on one relatively small set of characters who are mostly in one location (Winterfell, I'm guessing). It should be easy to move forward storylines pretty quickly, since so many characters and so many locations are no longer the focus. Everyone is going to be more or less in one place, including Sandor and Sansa.

The Hound's reluctance to go to Winterfell seems like a line from the scene where Jon and company discover that the BWB are in Tormund's dungeons. Maybe later on in the season the Hound and Brienne have scenes together at the dragonpit where he's all like "Fuck Winterfell," she's all like "Sansa's totally cool with you, with you saving her in KL and all. Truce?" and then he's all like "How soon can we leave for Winterfell?"

Tyrion seems pretty hived off from the supernatural derring do in Season 7 if the leaks are accurate. He's left behind when Team Jon goes wight-hunting and Dany goes to rescue them. It would be pretty funny if he's left awkwardly twiddling his thumbs at Winterfell while the Hound and Sansa make eyes at each other and Arya gives Tyrion the stink-eye.

If the Hound is going to die saving Sansa or somesuch, even with all the storylines merging in Season 7, six episodes for the Hound and Sansa to fall in love, for the Hound to die, and for Sansa to mourn his loss seems like a lot.

[amandawoods]

How the hell does everyone survive the dragonpit meeting?  Cersei and Dani, Cersei and Tyrion, Mountain and Sandor, Euron and Theon have some major feuds but no one dies?  It seems like a missed opportunity.  

[OhOkayWhat]

29 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

she's all like "Sansa's totally cool with you, with you saving her in KL and all. Truce?" and then he's all like "How soon can we leave for Winterfell?"

To be it possible, first Sansa needs to talk with Brienne about Sandor or vice versa. And the moment came when they had the opportunity to do precisely that, and they did not that. Also Sandor running to Winterfell for Sansa is kinda odd in Show-verse, in any case, I expect him to ask Brienne if she was able to find Arya to know if she is doing well.

34 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

If the Hound is going to die saving Sansa or somesuch, even with all the storylines merging in Season 7, six episodes for the Hound and Sansa to fall in love, for the Hound to die, and for Sansa to mourn his loss seems like a lot.

I think it goes beyond the screentime problem. They even can use just a couple of episodes within season 8 to create their love story, the real problem is that it is very possible the showrunners does not see Sandor as the "Beast" from a hypothetical "Beauty and the Beast" tale at all.

With his dialogue with Thoros and Beric in season 3 and season 6 and if the leaks are true and he goes to the "Wight mission" (and also he does not go to Winterfell before going to Eastwatch), it looks like they, even since Season 3, see him as "Sandor: Protector of Humankind" and not like "Sandor, the Sansa protector". It fits better with their interest on Arya-Sandor instead Sansa-Sandor.

[feverfew]

I don't mind most of these spoilers, even though I do find the thought of Jon/Dany going at it while the Wall falls unintentionally comical. Oh, well. Maybe it'll look better on film. And contrary to some I actually look forward to Littlefinger getting his in Winterfell. Especially if it's done tag team-wise by the Stark sisters.

As for potential romances I've never had a horse in any of the races*, but I'm pretty sure SanSan is dead as a doornail. I was actually sure the moment they cast Rory McCann. Sandor is, what? 25 in the novels so casting could easily have gone younger, but they didn't. The age disparity alone killed any thought of SanSan in the show for me. Combine that with a lack of interactions - at least until season 8 - and I think those who hope for Sansa/Sandor will be as disappointed as the Jon/Sansa shipper. Or what @OhOkayWhat said ;)

*Except for Rhaegar/Lyanne. If it turns out theirs were a beautiful love story, misunderstood by evil, temper tantrum-throwing Brandon, I will throw something. Probably the book.

Edited November 1, 2016 by feverfew
Jinxed!

[WearyTraveler]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

The leaker said that Jon pets Drogon, but photo leaks from the shoot suggest that it's Rhaegal (from the colour of the dragon head used as a reference for the CGI people).

There's a photoshoot??? Where? Where??? (You spend a few days off of this thread....)

[anamika]

2 hours ago, blixie said:

UGH I hate this I feel like Masie and Arya have had shit to do since she left The Hound to die, and I was so excited she had turned a corner and would get to finish out her list and reunite with Jon and/or Gendry, and I'd love to see her spend actual time with Brienne who is non traditional Westeros role model. Bleh. I have zero interest in her getting caught up in boring LF/Sansa bullshit. I just don't get why she'd want to twiddle her thumbs there, when she could be killing Cersei or helping Jon fight the wights, I can't see her wanting a piece of that (he'd fight her on that but she'd try to get around him).

Pretty much. Now that Arya has come back to Westeros, I want her to reunite with Nymeria (Who apparently pops up for a little reunion and then disappears for budget reasons) and Jon and go kill some wights/WW. Or even go south and mess with Cersei. It looks like she is stuck with the Sansa/LF BS for most of the season. I don't really care for the Arya/Sansa reunion and the only scene I want to see between them is Sansa apologizing  profusely to Arya for consistently siding with the Lannisters against her and making her life miserable in KL. I want to see Arya with the people important to her story - namely Jon or even Gendry. I don't even want the Hound anywhere near her. It looks like I will have to wait till season 8 to get a proper Arya story arc.

2 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

I feel your pain. I really thought Arya would have her own adventures in the Riverlands with the BwB before heading to Winterfell where she'd reunite with her family (Jon in particular). Unfortunately, she's going to be stuck in WF hell with LF and Sansa. I love Arya but I'd rather she deal with the LF bullshit instead of Jon - which is what I thought was going to be Jon's plot in S7.

Yeah, I am glad that Jon at least may be doing his book plot  of getting allies in the south, instead of playing house in WF while LF/Sansa use him as a pawn. Some of the nightmare scenarios discussed here included Jon following LF's bidding while Sansa rallied Davos and Tormund againt LF!! Thankfully D and D have realized that Jon has more important things to do, but unfortunately Arya is now caught up in that storyline. I just hope that they don't write her as an idiot (Like they did Jon last season) in order to show up Sansa as being a player.

So far, I don't have much of a problem with the season 7 plots except for the Winterfell plot - which sounds bland, boring and LF's end feels rather anti-climatic. Maybe Maisie was just excited about filming with Sophie and Arya getting to kill LF.  And poor Bran! There were some leaks about him controlling some ravens etc. Not sure if that's true. Anyways, I hope that he too as more to do other than being exposition man and a side character in  Sansa's LF plot.

And I think I have to finally accept that on the show, Dragons>>>>>>>>>Direwolves, considering that, according to leaks,  both Nymeria and Ghost make brief appearances and are never to be seen again in season 7. Maybe Ghost will meet a quick death like Summer early season 8 now that Jon is petting dragons and all that. Poor Ghost.

41 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

There's a photoshoot??? Where? Where??? (You spend a few days off of this thread....)

There's a link a couple of pages back (I think) of Kit and Emilia playing around with dragon heads.

Edited November 1, 2016 by anamika

[Minneapple]

I think Sansa is plenty important to Arya's story and vice versa, considering they're sisters. I loved Sansa's little smile last year when Brienne said Arya wasn't dressed as a proper lady. I look forward to their reunion this season (though part of me is looking forward to that just because I love Maisie and Sophie's friendship). And I do hope they take down Littlefinger together. 

[WearyTraveler]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

There's a link a couple of pages back (I think) of Kit and Emilia playing around with dragon heads.

Oh! I saw that.  I guess I didn't make the connection to Rhaegal then.  Thanks!

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Tyrion seems pretty hived off from the supernatural derring do in Season 7 if the leaks are accurate. He's left behind when Team Jon goes wight-hunting and Dany goes to rescue them. It would be pretty funny if he's left awkwardly twiddling his thumbs at Winterfell while the Hound and Sansa make eyes at each other and Arya gives Tyrion the stink-eye.

Viserion's supposed death would also be a blow to people hoping to see Tyrion ride a dragon.  I have a hard time imagining the showrunners cutting that if it's supposed to happen in the books, but then, quite a lot of stuff to do with the dragons has been different.

1 hour ago, anamika said:

I want to see Arya with the people important to her story - namely Jon or even Gendry.

One is certainly entitled to one's character preferences, but I don't think you could reasonably say that Arya and Sansa aren't important to each other's stories.  They have the most on-page/onscreen interactions of any of the four POV Stark siblings (well, until Jon and Sansa met up in Season 6, on the show), GRRM himself has commented that they have issues to work out, their book narratives are full of parallelisms, and on the show they're the only Stark siblings who occasionally talk about each other when it's not directly relevant to the plot.

[anamika]

44 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I think Sansa is plenty important to Arya's story and vice versa, considering they're sisters. I loved Sansa's little smile last year when Brienne said Arya wasn't dressed as a proper lady.

Sansa is important to Arya's story in the books only in so far as they reconcile Sansa's shitty behavior towards Arya. As GRRM mentions they have serious issues to work out - hopefully that means Sansa realizing what an ass she was towards her little sister and not Sansa using Arya as her henchman to kill LF. As far as ASoS, Sansa was wishing that Margaery was her sister instead of Arya. To hell with Sansa. I want Arya to reunite with the characters that actually appreciate her and matter to her. Like Jon, who broke his NW vows for Arya and got killed because of it and Nymeria with whom she has a deep bond.

As for Sansa smiling about Arya on the show... it's the show. D and D's love for Sansa/Sophie Turner has ruined the plots and characterization of a few characters I do like. And of course, on the show,  Jon never gets to ask about the sister he dearly loves in the books and for whom he plans to attack Ramsay. Sansa gets to do all that. Yes, I am still bitter about the season 6 North plot. And it looks like we will be getting more of that next season, with Arya and Bran as side characters in the Sansa/LF story instead of getting their book stories.  I am glad that Jon gets to escape 'master player' Sansa's orbit, but it sucks that Arya has been pulled into it now. Characters like Jon, Bran and Arya are important characters in their own right and not there to be used as plot devices for frigging Sansa Stark's character development.  I am hoping that the leaks missed out on some details and there's more to Arya's story in season 7. At least it looks like she gets Riverrun back into Tully control.

[SeanC]

11 minutes ago, anamika said:

And it looks like we will be getting more of that next season, with Arya and Bran as side characters in the Sansa/LF story instead of getting their book stories.  

We don't have any idea what their book stories are for this point, since the books aren't published, so I don't think it can be said we aren't getting it.  In Arya's case, it's quite plausible that this is some version of her eventual reunion with Sansa, which seems inevitable.

I'm not even really clear what Bran is doing all season.  Seemingly he's spending his time at the tree doing mystic stuff and providing a deus ex machina bit of knowledge.  But I don't think the writers have ever thought he was an interesting character.

Quote

As for Sansa smiling about Arya on the show... it's the show.

Sansa has had fond recollections of Arya in the books (including, most recently, in her TWOW chapter).