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Acting, or at least a facsimile of it...

caracas1914

By caracas1914
in Glee [V]

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Glorfindel

Glorfindel

(edited)

There's nothing like a little feisty debate to distract from mondain stuff, such as too many family members being together in a too small space for a too long period of time, while eating a small country's National Product's worth in 2 consecutive days (why do we have 2 Christmas days where I live?), with the added bonus of a headache and stomach problems that come the day after.   ;)

 

But seriously: sometimes I wish I could believe Chris really had checked out and couldn't care less about Glee anymore. It would probably save him some anxiety and major facepalming everytime he gets a new script in the mail.

Edited by Glorfindel
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It's not really up for debate that Glee's hours were insane. So many people have acknowledged it. 

tom87

tom87

People that believe they can read these actors' minds and know their intentions both fascinate and horrify me at the same time.

Oh come on you mean you aren't an expert at body language for fictional characters and 2D picture interpretation?

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KatWay

KatWay

Oh come on now, there's no need to get rude just because others don't agree with your opinion. I'm by no means an expert on anything, but when I perceive something to be a performance that's not on, slightly checked out, then I can interpret this either as the actor giving a poor performance or the actor being over it and not giving it 100% anymore. I usually choose the second (and yes, there's loads of examples of this phenomenon on TV), especially if the show in question is long past its prime. I get that this is upsetting to Chris Colfer's more devoted fans but people are just going to disagree on that one.

 

Also, the Glee threads are remarkably active considering that it's not even airing now and hasn't been airing in months.

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caracas1914

caracas1914

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(edited)

Relax it was a joke!

Actually I agree with the premise: , it's impossible to read an actor's mind one way or the other whether they're engaged or not. Either way it's projecting so it's fair game. I'm just amused that the irony of interpreting motivations whichever way you go is lost.

This is so subjective that of course one has to agree to disagree.

Edited by caracas1914
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Glorfindel

Glorfindel

(edited)

People that believe they can read these actors' minds and know their intentions both fascinate and horrify me at the same time.

 

Oh come on you mean you aren't an expert at body language for fictional characters and 2D picture interpretation?

No need to get rude and mock people for their opinion and for providing examples of why they've formed that opinion. Noone here has claimed to be an expert or able to read minds.

We're all very aware we're just speculating, in good jest even as far as I'm concerned.

 

And I see no way to actually discuss a tv-show without some personal interpretation and speculation, as most of our discussions' material is based on highly subjective things like acting, singing, dancing, writing, chemistry, beauty, charisma, popularity, media/popculture impact, and my favorite: what the General Audience might think.

Even the show itself and what we call 'canon' isn't 100% solid fact, as scenes get perceived and interpreted in different ways all the time. Heck: even the writers don't seem to agree with one another on that.

 

Boards like these would have little to talk about and move awfully slow without speculation and personal interpretation. And just admit it: we've all done that, so he who's without sin cast the first stone.

 

Oh come on now, there's no need to get rude just because others don't agree with your opinion. I'm by no means an expert on anything, but when I perceive something to be a performance that's not on, slightly checked out, then I can interpret this either as the actor giving a poor performance or the actor being over it and not giving it 100% anymore. I usually choose the second (and yes, there's loads of examples of this phenomenon on TV), especially if the show in question is long past its prime. I get that this is upsetting to Chris Colfer's more devoted fans but people are just going to disagree on that one.

Who's upset?  Just because I have another opinion than you and have been discussing this subject, I'm upset?

Isn't that a tad belittling?

Edited by Glorfindel
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KatWay

KatWay

 

Who's upset?  Just because I have another opinion than you and have been discussing this subject, I'm upset?

Isn't that a tad belittling?

I did not mean you in particular nor anyone in particular, nor did I mean that the difference in opinion made people upset. I was, however, referring to those who seemed to take the notion of Colfer's acting or involvement being questioned or criticised personal. It was not meant as belittling either, just expressing why I get the urge to be mean in reverse, as with the "joking" above.

 

But honestly, I really feel like this is going in circles, so yeah...who cares. The only people I really hold responsible for anything bad happening on this show are the showrunners and writers who have managed to take a good premise and a talented cast and somehow tanked the whole thing anyways. And they tanked it hard.

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caracas1914

caracas1914

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(edited)
I did not mean you in particular nor anyone in particular, nor did I mean that the difference in opinion made people upset. I was, however, referring to those who seemed to take the notion of Colfer's acting or involvement being questioned or criticised personal.

 

So...if you didn't mean anyone on this board....  ;)

 

FWIW, I think one of reasons we keep on going around in circles is because of statements like that....

 

For the record, I think Chord Overstreet is a mediocre actor and his performances reflect that..  I have NO idea why he's a poor actor and I have no problem with those who think he's a good actor.   Just me personally, I don't pretend  to know if Chord tries really hard and is just that bad, or if he doesn't try at  all anymore and is just that bad.

 

LOL, agree we just need to stop.   (*Looking in Mirror*)

Edited by caracas1914
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dizzyizzy01

dizzyizzy01

I was just joking, and trying to say in a humorous way that people can't know what the actors are really thinking unless you're actually in their head.  

 

Evaluating talent, performance, etc. is subjective and of course dependent on each individual's personal opinion.  Trying to unequivocally determine people's mindsets is pretty much impossible and kind of a leap.  

 

Anyway, I was stuck in various airports/hotels over the weekend and this thread made some interesting reading so thank you for entertaining me!

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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

On a positive note I still think the best actor on the show was Jayma Mays.   Comedy, drama, black comedy, pathos, adorable, there was nothing Jayma couldn't do.

I don't know if she ever got enough to do to judge her against those who had to work with the suckiest of writing.

Having said that the scene where the teachers are discussing Karofsky's suicide attempt her 'then whose job was it' kills me every time.

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truthaboutluv

truthaboutluv

(edited)

I think most of the adults on the show were all fairly decent. I don't count someone like Nene Leakes in that as I don't consider her an actress, though I'm sure she considers herself one. The weakest I would say was Dot and she wasn't so much bad as much as she was inconsistent. She had some really great scenes and there were times that were just awful.

 

That scene between her and Puck in The Quarterback is still one of the most cringe worthy things ever and I hated myself for hating it as much as I did because of the nature of the episode and genuine emotion I'm sure both actors had behind it but it was just awful.

Edited by truthaboutluv
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KatWay

KatWay

In season one I sometimes thought the acting of the adult cast was stronger than the "young" cast. Matt, Jayma, Jane, Jessalyn, etc., they were all excellent. They rarely got anything interesting to do afterwards, though they still showed their chops when they did, like in the post-Karofsky suicide scene mentioned above.

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caracas1914

caracas1914

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I thought some of Jayma's SL's threw her under the bus.  She was IMO horribly manipulative with the Celibacy club at McKinley  when it was her projecting her own issues with not willing to consummate her own marriage with Dentist Carl (John frigging Stamos!!) .  Yet somehow Jayma with her acting managed to retain some sympathy/empathy for her character.  Still...John Stamos!!

Edited by caracas1914
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camussie

camussie

(edited)

Jessalyn was great too.  Both her and Matt killed it in "Mattresses."  On a completely different note  Finn/Terri is my one sort of crack ship.  When she was helping him in "Funk" I thought dang they have some good chemistry.  Of course I would have never wanted them seriously explored but Terri laying one of Finn to get back at Will and Finn looking equal parts confused and turned on would have been awesome.  

Edited by camussie
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Glorfindel

Glorfindel

(edited)

I did not mean you in particular nor anyone in particular, nor did I mean that the difference in opinion made people upset. I was, however, referring to those who seemed to take the notion of Colfer's acting or involvement being questioned or criticised personal. It was not meant as belittling either, just expressing why I get the urge to be mean in reverse, as with the "joking" above.

As the chance of your opinion on this thread being read by possible Chris Colfer fans who get upset by any criticism on him (like that is a new thing) is quite slim, why bring it even up here in the first place?

But moving on.....

 

But honestly, I really feel like this is going in circles, so yeah...who cares. The only people I really hold responsible for anything bad happening on this show are the showrunners and writers who have managed to take a good premise and a talented cast and somehow tanked the whole thing anyways. And they tanked it hard.

I think we all can agree on that.

 

On a positive note I still think the best actor on the show was Jayma Mays.   Comedy, drama, black comedy, pathos, adorable, there was nothing Jayma couldn't do.

Jayma is a very good actress indeed, I think I would have disliked Emma a whole lot more if she hadn't been played by Jayma.

 

Most of the adult actors on Glee are good, like Matt, Jane, Dot-Marie, Mike O'Malley, Jessalyn, I'd even say Iqbal, even though his character is very one-note (but then, so are most Glee characters).

RIB deciding to not use them more often so the teachers could anchor the McKinley narrative after the original kids graduated is one of the most stupid things they've done (and that's saying something).

 

For the record, I think Chord Overstreet is a mediocre actor and his performances reflect that..  I have NO idea why he's a poor actor and I have no problem with those who think he's a good actor.   Just me personally, I don't pretend  to know if Chord tries really hard and is just that bad, or if he doesn't try at  all anymore and is just that bad.

Imo Chord is a passable enough actor when he's acting opposite a decent or good actor who motivates him to give his best game. He just can't hold that same level up when he's paired with a weaker actor. And since a lot of Sam's scenes in season 4 and 5 were with Blaine, Tina and Brittany, well.....need I say more?

 

Anyway, I was stuck in various airports/hotels over the weekend and this thread made some interesting reading so thank you for entertaining me!

It sure was fun in a way, and kept the mind busy during tedious times.

Edited by Glorfindel
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dizzyizzy01

dizzyizzy01

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but was Jessica the only "Nip/Tuck" actor ( IIRC she had a recurring SL one season) to appear in any future Brad/Ryan projects so far?

 

 

Well there's at least Dot, who did a a few guest spots. I think Romy Rosemont and Aisha Tyler also had very brief guest appearances.  I don't think a regular cast member has worked with Ryan/Brad again that I can recall anyway.

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caracas1914

caracas1914

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(edited)

Julian McMahon, Dylan Walsh, Joely Richardson, Jon Hensley, Roma Maffia , etc all those regulars on Nip/Tuck worked with Ryan/Brad for 6 seasons and 100 episodes so to me it's a bit jarring none of them have worked with them again.

Edited by caracas1914
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phoenixrising

phoenixrising

(edited)

Julian McMahon, Dylan Walsh, Joely Richardson, Jon Hensley, Roma Maffia , etc all those regulars on Nip/Tuck worked with Ryan/Brad for 6 seasons and 100 episodes so to me it's a bit jarring none of them have worked with them again.

I don't know how legit this link is (http://www.nobullscript.net/lifeinhollywood/why-ryan-murphy-must-be-stopped/), but apparently the Nip/Tuck cast really hated being on the show by the end of it, because ryan had checked out by the end and was putting most of his energies into Glee. So basically, what's happening to Glee is not new.

Also, I will say, when the weaker actors are given better material, I think they do get better in terms of acting. But then, there's some things even the better actors can't elevate. Honestly, I usually can let some of the weaker acting slide if I'm invested enough.

I also think the earlier point about who people get paired to act with helps. Part of the train wreck of Blamtina was the acting, and the saving grace of season 4 New York was hummelpezberry.

Edited by phoenixrising
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camussie

camussie

(edited)

Wanted to put my response to this in the acting thread.  

 

I don't think Matt is over the top as Schue, nor Chris as Kurt, nor Amber, nor Lea, nor Cory (rip).

 

 

I think even when they are supposed to be OTT it comes across as more natural than it does for people like Chord, Jenna, and Darren.  For example Finn & Rachel were deliberately being OTT in "With you I am Born Again" but the actors effectively portrayed the characters making that choice for effect versus the actors defaulting to playing a scene OTT because "It's Glee."

 

And for your entertainment  With you I am Born Again.  They both are hilarious but Cory especially slays me in this because of how he has Finn playing up the part of the angelic priest.  And shout out to Mike's slow clap, Kurt's discomfort, and Mercedes disbelief.  Probably the only part of "Duets" I liked.  

 

As a side note, although this song is meant to be a joke, i think it is a really good example of how Cory's singing improved over the years.  He has so much more control over his voice in this song than he did in almost any season 1 song.  It makes me wonder how much work he put in with a coach over that summer between S1 and 2

Edited by camussie
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fakeempress

fakeempress

Yes, the key word here is the characters themselves were deliberately over the top because they were throwing the performance on purpose. It was great. 

Jenna on the other hand, isn't deliberately ott in most of her scenes, it comes out like that because she can't find the balance. Though I've liked her occasionally, when she managed to do that. For instance, I liked her and Harry in their Duets performance.

 

Adding here the OTT brilliance of Run Joey, Run.

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camussie

camussie

That too is hilarious.  It also reminds me of something completely off topic that I noticed in season 1 and early season 2 - the camera operators had some issues framing Cory and Lea in close up scenes due to their significant height difference (which I always found adorable).  It always made me laugh when they would cut off Finn's head even though his face was obviously supposed to be featured in a shot.  

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tom87

tom87

(edited)

I think a good example of Matt being intentionally OTT was " Blame It On the Alcohol." That was one of the few times that he really got to show off his comedic skills.

One scene that always cracked me up is when In Ballad and he gets home and just wants to relax and Rachel pops up behind him with a beer.

 

Matt's face is so over the top but still makes me laugh.

Edited by tom87
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Sara2009

Sara2009

One scene that always cracked me up is when In Ballad and he get home and just wants to relax and Rachel pops up behind him with a beer.

Matt's face is so over the top but still makes me laugh.

Matt and Lea were over the top for the whole episode, and I loved every moment of it.

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Craphole Island

Craphole Island

(edited)

I think my favorite is "Don't Stand So Close to Me/Young Girl". Matt sounds great and his facial expressions are great, but Emma and Rachel's reactions are hilarious.

 

The songs also mashup really well. If I ever hear one (typically the former), I automatically start singing the mashup version instead and then I'm like "wait..."

Edited by Craphole Island
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Danielle87

Danielle87

Wanted to put my response to this in the acting thread.  

 

 

I think even when they are supposed to be OTT it comes across as more natural than it does for people like Chord, Jenna, and Darren.  For example Finn & Rachel were deliberately being OTT in "With you I am Born Again" but the actors effectively portrayed the characters making that choice for effect versus the actors defaulting to playing a scene OTT because "It's Glee."

 

And for your entertainment  With you I am Born Again.  They both are hilarious but Cory especially slays me in this because of how he has Finn playing up the part of the angelic priest.  And shout out to Mike's slow clap, Kurt's discomfort, and Mercedes disbelief.  Probably the only part of "Duets" I liked.  

 

As a side note, although this song is meant to be a joke, i think it is a really good example of how Cory's singing improved over the years.  He has so much more control over his voice in this song than he did in almost any season 1 song.  It makes me wonder how much work he put in with a coach over that summer between S1 and 2

 

I had wished back then they had done the full song, they sounded great together on this.

 

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fakeempress

fakeempress

(edited)

From the Darren thread:

 

his acting was on par with most of the other young guy actors like the Zac Efrons of the world in his movie. I've never gotten the criticism of his acting, but then again I find Dianna mediocre and she's beloved, so I tend to go against popular opinion a lot.

Zac is pretty bad but had the pretty boy / teen idol thing going for him, he's trying to branch out, I'm not sure how successfully. Taylor Lautner is another such case, he was pretty bad in an action movie, but strangely enough was on Cuckoo, a British TV comedy, and wasn't bad at all, turns out he's better as a comedic actor. So you never know about Darren, I was talking on the basis of Glee and his movie, and gave my opinion in both cases.

 

Dianna - I agree here, I've seen I Am Number 4 and The Family (the De Niro movie) and she didn't impress me at all. For me, her acting on Glee is best described as inert. But she's the proverbial blonde and easy to cast. I'm curious if the indie movies she did recently will change my opinion about her, maybe she just hasn't found the best vehicle yet.

Edited by fakeempress
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camussie

camussie

(edited)

Speaking of acting "Journey to Regionals" was on the Glee re-wind this past weekend and the labor room scene is exactly what I am talking about when I said Mark Salling isn't the worst actor on the show but when he blows a scene he does so in spectacular fashion..  That whole sequence between Quinn's labor and VA's performance was amazing except Mark Salling.  Each time they panned to him he took me out of the scene for a second or two due to whatever emotion he was trying so hard but failing to convey in those scenes.  

Edited by camussie
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marriedaniac

marriedaniac

One scene that always cracked me up is when In Ballad and he gets home and just wants to relax and Rachel pops up behind him with a beer.

 

Matt's face is so over the top but still makes me laugh.

 

And that little wave she does with the rubber gloves on... 

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Ceeg

Ceeg

(edited)

 

Wrt the discussion in the Darren/Blaine thread, I suspect it's not only with Blaine, but in general the producers didn't really bother discussing the characters with the actors. I know Darren has talked about how he wasn't given much direction from the start (probably meaning not much more than the character breakdown from the auditions), but if we're to believe Chris, he wasn't given much more either. I have to look up which interview that was where he said about not getting much of a direction. I remember it came as a surprise to me because there was the assumption that Kurt was so well outlined and that he is Ryan's alter ego. Chris has also talked a few times how he took initial inspiration from Miranda Priestly in The Devil Wears Prada, and even his family cat, to give Kurt his attitude in Season 1, and about the mannerisms he gave Kurt, even joking they're becoming his own after a while rather than the other way round, like the sitting cross-legged and clasping his knee. I've heard many actors mention how even for the most episodic roles they make up full backstory and motivations for their characters, when they have basically none to go on. There was an interview with Oliver K-J where he talked about his elaborate backstory for Adam, and to many it sounded pretentious but that's what people especially those from acting academies are trained to do in order to play even a more cardboard or rudimentary character, they make up motivations for themselves when they aren't given them.

 

For me, I think that's the difference in Darren's acting and in Chris' or Naya's or Cory's or any of the other actors on the show that are deemed ~the best. The writing was truly shitty for ALL the characters on this show. And except for Cory and Lea, who were playing lead characters from the start, the other characters all started off as supporting. Kurt, but especially Santana and Blaine, were there for support. But, despite the lack of direction, Chris and Naya were able to piecemeal together an idea of their characters and their characters' motivations, and were somehow able to get it across on-screen. For example, even before Sexy, it was Naya's opinion that Santana was in love with Brittany and it was pretty evident in the way she played that, without any words. I'm sure there are a hundred gifsets out there of Santana making heart eyes at Brittany LONG before they were ever an established ship. So, there's a certain consistency to the characterization of Santana, despite the way they have written her. And that's because of Naya.

 

And the same for Chris with Kurt. I feel like there's been a pretty consistent portrayal of Kurt from Chris throughout the series, despite any terrible, inconsistent writing that happened. 

 

But, IMO the opposite can be said for Blaine/Darren. There's no consistency in the way Blaine has been portrayed, and there's no consistency in the way he's been written. And I think that's where the disconnect is, and that's why people point to Chris and Naya and Lea and Cory as good actors, and why people point to Darren and Chord as bad actors. Their characters have ALL been written poorly, so IMO everyone is on a level playing field. But, it's the work that these actors due despite the terrible writing that elevates what we see on screen.

I will admit though, that some of my criticism of Darren's acting is due to his very loud fanbase, who insist that he's the best thing that happened to Glee and that his voice is amazing and he should sing every song and that he's an Oscar caliber actor and his music is Grammy worthy and blahblahstangogglesblah. I don't criticize Chord near as much as I do Darren, probably because does Chord even have a fanbase, other than the tens of people at GleeForum? But I'd put Chord and Darren's acting abilities on pretty much the same level. When you scratch the surface, there's nothing there.

Edited by Ceeg
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