The Blacklist: Redemption - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

Your Blacklist: Redemption Topic!

[milkyaqua]

Ex-Castle Boss Tapped as Blacklist Spinoff Showrunner

[milkyaqua]

NBC Unveils Midseason Schedule: Chicago Justice, Blacklist Spinoff, Shades of Blue on the Move and More

THURSDAY | DC Comics’ Danny Pudi-Vanessa Hudgens comedy Powerless will assume The Good Place‘s post-Superstore timeslot at 8:30/7:30c beginning Feb. 2.

The Blacklist: Redemption, meanwhile, will launch on Feb. 23 in The Blacklist: Original Flavor‘s 10/9c timeslot, and remain there for eight weeks. The Blacklist returns with original episodes on April 20.

Edited December 8, 2016 by milkyaqua

[Princess Lucky]

Terry O'Quinn cast in a recurring role as Tom's father

Yes please.

[MostlyC]

Series Premiere!

Quote

Ex-operative Tom Keen is recruited by the head of an international security firm to help rescue a kidnapped CIA agent; in the course of the mission, Tom discovers evidence of a conspiracy within his own family.

 

Does this mean he will get to work out sans shirt???

[ItCouldBeWorse]

So Tom is told to show up in NY for something having to do with his father's death, and neither he nor Liz remember that his father doesn't know that he is Christopher?  Did that make sense to anyone?

[ottoDbusdriver]

For crying out loud, can't they afford some silencers ?  That was almost as stupid Tom leaving the room to take a call about son's status -- only to find the mother gone when he returns.  That was just bad writing.

They need to turn down the volume on the funky soundtrack -- initially it was kind of cool, but as the episode went on it seems so loud it's like every where they go they are walking through a record store.

Thank goodness Lizzie was only in the start of the episode, so Megan Boone's crappy acting didn't take away from this show too.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Also, Liz is rushing to work until Tom gets that call to go to NY, and now she has time to wait around for a babysitter?

Edited February 24, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

That was almost as stupid Tom leaving the room to take a call about son's status -- only to find the mother gone when he returns.  That was just bad writing.

Yes; that too. Whatever the news, find out ASAP.

Also, shouldn't you minimize the number of people in the room with an active bomb?

I am also trying to visualize if it is possible to cut 2 wires at exactly the same time with one tool. Wouldn't the cutting edge cut through one wire first? They weren't even on top of one another.

[Danielg342]

Considering the Mothership's ratings are in the tank, I'm not sure how long this one will be on the air for. So, might as well enjoy this while it lasts.

...and, well...

I'm in so far. There's not much for me to say about the first "Case of the Week" except to say that the writing was pretty formulaic, feeling a lot like your standard "action movie" fare than something truly unique.

Yeah, it was pretty cool to see the Tunnels of Dover, and I liked how I got some eye candy out of the Romanian swimmer.

Having said that...the plotting sure felt like "we need this because...drama" or "wouldn't it be cool if..." It's a pretty weak effort from the writers.

I'm also not sure I dig the whole "Scottie's got a conspiracy angle". Seems kind of hokey to me, and we know "Whitehall" likely won't turn out well.

...but...

The cast have amazing chemistry, and they're really great with their one-liners and quips. They're a certainly more enjoyable bunch than the drab, way-too-serious cast of the Mothership, and I like how it appears that this show is at least not trying to take itself seriously...at least not as seriously as The Blacklist does.

I also appreciate the show won't shy away from its sex appeal...Scottie was on fire tonight and I'm sure one day we'll get Tom without his shirt, and perhaps Solomon too (as what happened on the Mothership).

There's potential here if the writers ever get their act together, which is a mighty tall order. You've got a great cast and a tone that emphasizes the "fun" in an action show, a show that pledges not to take itself too seriously.

Episode Grade: B. The writing wasn't up to snuff but the cast hit all the right notes...there's something here if they can just get it together.

[DrScottie]

When referring to Anna, Scottie mentioned that she had a burn notice on her.  All I could of was the introduction to Burn Notice and Michael Westin hearing over the phone:  "You've got a Burn Notice on you. You're blacklisted." Thought it was funny, I miss that show. 

[Ariah]

First, an unpopular opinion: I like Tom. I always had. There, I said it.

Not surprising, I liked the pilot quite a lot. It gave me positive Mission Impossible vibes: the split screen, the fast pace, the gadgets, the stupid-yet-impressive solutions to simple problems (how to kidnap a swimmer? Let's blow up a hole in her pool and fish her out!). 

Even the cold open had MI:3 airplane scene. Funny, during this scene I thought "that's not how the cargo door opening work on a plane. Scottie should have flown out faster than her prisoner... And then it turned out a genuine cop-out. Nice work, script. You had me there.

Almost the whole cast clicks well together, better than on the mothership. It's good not to have a character like Liz (a wonder that sucks all dynamics out of a scene) in the main ensemble. 

Guillermo del Toro's look-a-like (Dumont) is funny and competent without coming off as an all-knowing a*s. 

Matias is a pleasure to look at and his snark livens up the scenes.

Tom's badassery increases exponentially when Liz is not around - it always had, nice to have it confirmed.

Scottie was on fire, and are these Jocasta's vibes I'm feeling from her towards Tom? Awkward!

The only person we didn't get enough info about was Nez - I might have missed it, but what is her unique skill-set? She seems just a token woman of the team currently.

Anyhow, i'm in for the ride. Bring on the mother-son innuendos, crazy snark and marginalised Liz cameos.

And in the end it will turn out Tom is not Christopher at all. But Christopher is alive... And is the big bad of the 2nd season (called it). 

[mertensia]

Is there a show Terry O'Quinn hasn't been on lately?

This was fun. Mindless fun.

[mandigirl]

I was expecting the characters to be much more gray than they were. There's quite a bit of retconning from their introduction on Blacklist. I mean, the woman operative on the team that was cradling a little boy in this episode, if I remember correctly did a lot of damage, including killing some people I think? in Blacklist.  Solomon was a straight up sociopath who threatened a baby to get information. The fact that they are all apparently playing nice together now isn't just unrealistic, it's inconsistent.  Instead of creating conspiracies, I would have liked to see more development of the team members for sure.

Quote

The cast have amazing chemistry, and they're really great with their one-liners and quips.

I did like this but--

Quote

I also appreciate the show won't shy away from its sex appeal

The weird incest thing they are toying with will definitely make me stop watching this show. They played with it in the backdoor pilot too, but Tom didn't know Scottie was his mother. Now he does.  It's gross and I'm not sure what the point of that is.  Just stop show.

 I like the concept and I'll watch another episode, but the writing on this episode... just not good. The cliches were flying left and right as were the anvils.  "Get close to her-- but she can't know you're her son!!" "Infiltrate your family, find out what Scottie is up to and stop her!!" There was just a lot of drama for drama's sake. I already have zero interest in the whole conspiracy.

Doesn't Tom live in Washington, D.C.?? Is he going to fly to work every day?

[dwmarch]

Well I like this show better already. Heists, espionage and murder time fun time! The cast seems pretty solid so far and I loved that they spent little to no time chasing their own tail like the FBI would have done.

1 hour ago, mandigirl said:

The weird incest thing they are toying with will definitely make me stop watching this show.

I'm okay with it as long as they keep it on the humorous side of awkward. At some point Scottie is going to plant a big smooch on Tom while rubbing his thigh and he's going to blurt out "dude, you're my mom!" Cue even more awkward conversation.

I was somewhat surprised that Tom didn't snark right back at Solomon about the failed kill shot. Tom should have said he shot Solomon in the stomach on purpose... because he knew it would hurt like a bitch and he didn't want Solomon to die but rather to spend the rest of his days wondering if today was going to be the day when Tom came back for the actual coup de grace. As I pointed out in the episode thread at the time, if Tom had wanted Solomon dead he would have shot him somewhere more critical.

The CIA sent a team to blow up the bad guy and months later that same CIA team is just hanging around in a warehouse waiting for their kidnapped coworker to come back? And the CIA disavows their agent but also hires contractors to rescue her? MacGyver has a better setup for this kind of thing - the Phoenix Foundation is a last line of defense when the government can't get involved. Halcyon Aegis? We blow up weddings, kidnap babies, steal priceless artifacts from museums, gun down mooks... oh, and we're also at the government's disposal when they royally screw up and can't admit to trying to fix their own mess.

[Danielg342]

I'm with @dwmarch, as long as they keep the incest thing as purely awkwardly humourous, I'll be OK with it. I'd even be OK with "unresolved sexual tension", as long as they, um, don't resolve it.

[ottoDbusdriver]

3 hours ago, Ariah said:

First, an unpopular opinion: I like Tom. I always had. There, I said it.

...........

Tom's badassery increases exponentially when Liz is not around - it always had, nice to have it confirmed.

That always seems to be the case -- get Tom away from Lizzie and he's 1000% better at pretty much everything.  
And much more likable too.  Lizzie is like the proverbial albatross around Tom's neck.

Tom didn't seem overly concerned about getting back to Lizzie and Agnes at the end of the episode -- plus, how many days went by ?  Tom goes to NY, Tom attended a funeral, Tom and Solomon captured that swimmer, then Tom went to London with the team, ran an op, and then back to the States.  He was basically gone about a week.  

What's with the all the pay phone usage ?  Even to call Lizzie.  That just seems weird -- how does Tom not have a smartphone ?

Did the swimmer call collect from that pay phone ?  Unless that coat she stole from the dry cleaning van had a ton of change in the pocket to make an international call.  Despite Dumont's explanation that was a whole lot of handwaving to narrow the phone number down to only 3 options (084, 008, 802).
 Plus, how is a cell phone tied to a physical location ?  Because Leland Gray talked to the swimmer on his cell phone.

Dumont was all hot to trot about the swimmer slipping out of her red underwear, but wouldn't he have already seen her change out of her swimsuit.  Then again maybe she wasn't in front of a mirror at the time.

Did anyone else notice that the detonator in Anna Copeland's hand flipped upside down in her hand between shots ?  In fact it flipped back and forth a couple of times.  Hello ?  Continuity guys ?? Are interns running the dept. already ?
 

[milkyaqua]

Yes, the pay phone was a big "huh" for me.  I didn't even know they still had them and two at that?  Stop it.

I like Terry O'Quinn but if he's going to be popping up and screaming "conspiracy" on however many episodes, that's going to get old fast.

And yes, talk about retconning these characters.  Matias working on the "good" side?  Stop it show.  Scottie with an agenda is no big stretch since that's pretty much how she was introduced anyway.

The CIA stuff was dumb as usual but government agencies don't come off well on most TV shows especially Blacklist ones.

Tom leaving the room to take a call, ho hum.  Every show/movie has done the same dumb thing and it's always annoying.

As for Tom and his Mom, yeah, they need to be careful how they tread with that one but as long as they play it for laughs, it shouldn't be too bad.

This epi had holes but for now, I'm willing to go along because, no Lizzie.

[Princess Lucky]

This was so much fun!

The dialogue was truly terrible, and the case so-and-so, but that pool scene alone got me by the balls. I'm all for a fun (actually fun, not drenched in drama) and mindless action show. I do enjoy the entire cast, and I'd much rather watch caper/heist-style cases than the stuff we currently see on The Blacklist itself, so I'm in for the duration (it's only 8 episodes, no?).

I've always loved Tom too, by the way. Well, not always. At first I thought he'd be the typical spy who falls in love with his mark and has a heart of gold etc etc. But, ever since he handled The Cowboy back in S1 (i.e. when we learned he's actually a badass), I've been fully onboard the Tom Train.

I was wondering how they'd maintain that awkward sexual chemistry now that Tom knows, and they've sure found a way, lol. I agree with the comments above, as long as it's played for laughs I'm fine with it. It causes funny tension in scenes which might otherwise be dull.

Solomon remains awesome, by the way. That's a fun dynamic he has going with Tom. The entire team is fun, actually. And they have fun, too. I appreciate that.

1 hour ago, milkyaqua said:

Yes, the pay phone was a big "huh" for me.  I didn't even know they still had them and two at that?  Stop it.

As a Person of Interest fan, that made me happy and nostalgic.

[Danielg342]

I'm not sure how they retconned Solomon. He was introduced on The Mothership as a mercenary who was hunting Liz for Scottie on behalf of Kirk, before Red convinced Scottie to change her focus to Kirk.

Yeah, at first he was "bad"...but that was due to framing, nothing more.

In any case, I'm thrilled to see him as a good guy here because he and Tom are electric together. If this show doesn't work, I hope they'll be paired for another one because those two work very well.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

19 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I'm not sure how they retconned Solomon. He was introduced on The Mothership as a mercenary who was hunting Liz for Scottie on behalf of Kirk, before Red convinced Scottie to change her focus to Kirk.

Yeah, at first he was "bad"...but that was due to framing, nothing more.

Solomon really seemed to enjoy hurting people, though. We saw them play at that with the pretend torture of the swimmer.  The question is, when push comes to shove, would Solomon still be sadistic, and would Tom intervene?  We've seen Tom do horrible things to get information before, but he doesn't enjoy it the way Solomon does.

[Danielg342]

2 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Solomon really seemed to enjoy hurting people, though. We saw them play at that with the pretend torture of the swimmer.  The question is, when push comes to shove, would Solomon still be sadistic, and would Tom intervene?  We've seen Tom do horrible things to get information before, but he doesn't enjoy it the way Solomon does.

I'm not sure. Tom sure wasn't too apprehensive sticking a knife in Asher Sutton's throat, or choking The Harbormaster with his legs.

Or beating up his own wife in S1 or putting a bullet in Jolene.

I also think Red has his sadistic streak...that scene where he waxed poetic about Marathon Man right before Samar was (seemingly) about to torture a high ranking Cabal operative was a clear indicator. He's also gone on how many soliloquies before shooting his hyperventilating, defeated for?

...and Red is supposed to be "good".

I think when it comes to Solomon when he's "having fun" delivering the torture it's only to ramp up the fear factor in his captive, because there's nothing scarier than seeing your torturer "enjoy" what he's doing.

Having said that, I've never seen Solomon hunt someone and torture someone who was "innocent", it was always someone who was connected to the job at hand (the attack on Dembe's family was to get to Dembe who was attacked to get to Red in order to get to Liz).

We could probably argue about the ethics of Solomon targeting a kid, something we have not seen Tom do (but we have no idea if he would). We also don't know if Solomon had reservations about doing it, since we were not privy to his thoughts.

Greater point though is that Solomon hasn't yet targeted someone who was truly "innocent"- anyone he's attacked was part of a job for someone else.

So at least he's on par with Tom and Red and Scottie as well.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

7 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

We could probably argue about the ethics of Solomon targeting a kid, something we have not seen Tom do (but we have no idea if he would). We also don't know if Solomon had reservations about doing it, since we were not privy to his thoughts.

It was an interesting choice that Leland Bray did not directly threaten Anna's son to get the desired information, but attempted to use her fear of her son hearing her be tortured to do so.   Since she was willing to blow up her compatriots to save her son, I assume she would have given up her information quickly if he had held a knife to the boy.  I guess he likes kids? (Yeah, I know that he used him as a shield later, but that's when he was directly threatened.)

Edited February 24, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Danielg342]

25 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

It was an interesting choice that Leland Bray did not directly threaten Anna's son to get the desired information, but attempted to use her fear of her son hearing her be tortured to do so.   Since she was willing to blow up her compatriots to save her son, I assume she would have given up her information quickly if he had held a knife to the boy.  I guess he likes kids? (Yeah, I know that he used him as a shield later, but that's when he was directly threatened.)

I wonder if the original draft called for Bray to harm the kid before the studio stepped in. The camera did pan away when the mother was being tortured, so all we heard was her screams, and let's not forget, Solomon's attack on Dembe's daughter happened off-screen.

It's got all the hallmarks of "Executive Meddling" and, while I understand why they do it, it's still an annoyance of mine. Real-life criminals would have no issues at all hurting a kid or a woman (in fact, most serial killers target women and children, because they're "easier" prey) and, as you pointed out, the plot of the episode would have made more sense if Bray threatened the kid. Perhaps the studio thought hearing the kid's screams would have been too much for the audience so they switched the tactics.

[Princess Lucky]

I figured out what I like better about this show (at least the pilot).

When they take on a mission, they analyze blueprints and they look for the locations and they plan out a heist, essentially. Or multiple heists. They don't "profile" the bad guys, there's no analysis of anybody's deeper motives. The jobs are jobs. I like that the focus is on the missions themselves, and not the villains. I don't miss the psychobabble about "evil men". This episode almost played out like a video game, didn't it? It was breezy. I think that works way better for an action show.

I also like the Tom family drama, though. Surprisingly. This episode was just vague enough. They had Scottie appear earnest in her grief, and they also had the dad appear a little unhinged, but are you paranoid if they're really trying to get you? You know Scottie is totally capable of a plan like that. I'm interested.

I just hope the rest of the episodes follow the same formula.

Oh and kudos to Famke, who was great, and also kudos to Ryan Eggold who did the most with his silent reaction shots to both of his parents. All the actors shone, actually (except Megan Boone in that opening. Yikes.). Edi Gathegi especially. Good stuff.

[TiredMe]

I am in no way shape or form, ok with the weird sexual thing they tried between those two. No nope hell no! Not funny. Nasty and I'm out if they continue that. 

Im not buying the Solomon thing. He was awful, now he's a kind of good guy? What? 

[Happytobehere]

22 hours ago, Ariah said:

First, an unpopular opinion: I like Tom. I always had.

And in the end it will turn out Tom is not Christopher at all. But Christopher is alive... And is the big bad of the 2nd season (called it). 

Not an unpopular opinion.  I always liked Tom even when e was being sold as the villain and Lizzie as the hero.  Perhaps actual acting skills tilted me towards him.

I assumed that Tom would be revealed not to be Christopher for two reasons 1) Why are Red and the father (Terry O'Quinn) presumably so convinced that Tom is Christopher -- they could be being duped, or knowing Red's hatred of Tom, this is all some convoluted plot to get him away from Lizzie, for which I thank him because Lizzie is made of suck. 2) There is a reason the show is focusing on the creepy sexual vibe between Tom and Scottie, them being parent and child who will feel forever awkward around each other after the big reveal (Tom is already wielded out by what is going on and rightly so)  isn't the reason.

I liked it better than the Mothership. Does it need time to grow and find its footing, yes, but there is a ton of potential here.  Now if they can just find a way to make Dembe a cast member on Redemption, the mothership can finally sink.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Happytobehere

[saber5055]

I guess I'm the only one who REALLY disliked this show. Ryan Eggold is nice to look at, and I'm fine with him. And it was nice to see John Locke again. But those pay phones! I was waiting for a mechanical voice on the other end to recite book codes for Harold Wren. And WTH with Tom switching *snap* like that from being the doting father and born-again teacher to "See ya some day, Agnes. Maybe. When you're all grown up and wondering who YOUR father is," which seems to be a running theme for BL writers. John Locke knows Tom is a trained assassin with "skills"? How did that happen? And I just can't with Solomon now being one of the good guys, I strongly dislike him, and Scottie squees me out with her wanting to bed Tom. Not that I blame her, but please, show, do not go there and just stop it. My takeaway was that this is a formulaic show with nothing to distinguish it from every other show just like it. There is the handsome badass Tom. But he isn't enough to make me watch every week. My score: D-. And I'm being generous.

[granderobino]

23 hours ago, saber5055 said:

My takeaway was that this is a formulaic show with nothing to distinguish it from every other show just like it. There is the handsome badass Tom. But he isn't enough to make me watch every week. My score: D-. And I'm being generous.

Pretty much, my feeling as well. Though I had hoped that Mr Solomon would prove to be an interesting character, that turned out not to be true.  Liked him better as in unrepentant bad guy. The incest vibe is just gross. Nothing (other than the tunnels of Dover reference, which was brief) was compelling enough for me to want to watch the series going forward.

[djinn]

On February 25, 2017 at 1:45 PM, saber5055 said:

My takeaway was that this is a formulaic show with nothing to distinguish it from every other show just like it.

That was my reaction to it. Extremely formulaic, with just a very, very tiny hint of a backstory introduced through Christopher Hargrave/Tom. Also, I really couldn't take the about-turn of Mattias Solomon suddenly being a joking "good" guy seriously at all! Anyway, ratings weren't great for a premiere.

[mandigirl]

On 2/24/2017 at 3:23 AM, Danielg342 said:

I'm with @dwmarch, as long as they keep the incest thing as purely awkwardly humourous, I'll be OK with it. I'd even be OK with "unresolved sexual tension", as long as they, um, don't resolve it.

 I was seriously wondering what the #$%^$# was wrong with the writers with the whole incest undertone, but I see from this board that its supposed to be funny! Even knowing that it is apparently being played for laughs (?) I can't say that I understand the joke? Is it because it is an older woman and a young man? Would this be less funny if it was an older man heavily flirting unknowingly with his much younger daughter? Also, if the incest thing is supposed to create "amusing awkward" scenes, then the joke's on Scottie which I think kinda sucks. It's already bad enough that no one on the show will tell her Tom is her son, there's no need to make her look gross (and foolish) by pawing at him which IMO is just cruel. 

On 2/24/2017 at 0:38 PM, Danielg342 said:

I'm not sure how they retconned Solomon. He was introduced on The Mothership as a mercenary who was hunting Liz for Scottie on behalf of Kirk, before Red convinced Scottie to change her focus to Kirk.

I believe he was introduced as a mercenary working for the Cabal-- and he sure wasn't picking up their dry-cleaning! My last clear recollection of Solomon (prior to the backdoor pilot) is him shooting up Liz and Tom's wedding and giving the order to get Liz and believe his words were "feel free" to kill everyone else in the church.  So, yeah, him now rescuing kittens out of trees feels like a huge retconn to me. I'm still waiting for some context for Solomon's apparent change of heart. Heck, I would even accept that he's working for Scottie because the pay is better. Them just not addressing it is the problem. 

Edited February 26, 2017 by mandigirl

[Danielg342]

3 hours ago, mandigirl said:

 I was seriously wondering what the #$%^$# was wrong with the writers with the whole incest undertone, but I see from this board that its supposed to be funny! Even knowing that it is apparently being played for laughs (?) I can't say that I understand the joke? Is it because it is an older woman and a young man? Would this be less funny if it was an older man heavily flirting unknowingly with his much younger daughter? Also, if the incest thing is supposed to create "amusing awkward" scenes, then the joke's on Scottie which I think kinda sucks. It's already bad enough that no one on the show will tell her Tom is her son, there's no need to make her look gross (and foolish) by pawing at him which IMO is just cruel. 

I believe he was introduced as a mercenary working for the Cabal-- and he sure wasn't picking up their dry-cleaning! My last clear recollection of Solomon (prior to the backdoor pilot) is him shooting up Liz and Tom's wedding and giving the order to get Liz and believe his words were "feel free" to kill everyone else in the church.  So, yeah, him now rescuing kittens out of trees feels like a huge retconn to me. I'm still waiting for some context for Solomon's apparent change of heart. Heck, I would even accept that he's working for Scottie because the pay is better. Them just not addressing it is the problem. 

It's an interesting double standard, and I'd like to think there could be a scenario where the gender flipped version of Tom/Scottie could be played for laughs. I do know The Mothership- interestingly once with Solomon- has made some jokes about Lizzie and Red.

As for Solomon, it would have benefited him if he had a heel face turn during The Mothership, where he at least admits that all he's doing is picking up a paycheck. They had an opportunity during Scottie's episode on The Mothership (this series' backdoor pilot) where Solomon addressed shooting up Tom's wedding, where Solomon could have at least admitted "I was just doing it for the money", but he didn't do that.

I guess for me I simply contextualized Solomon's prior actions as "he's just doing it for the money" (because I believe that's the ultimate truth) so I can easier accept him as a "good guy" here. Plus, I really dig Edi Gathegi as an actor, so I want this role to be successful, since I think he deserves it (and not "because we need more successful black actors" or anything like that, I'll just get that out of the way).

[mandigirl]

3 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

They had an opportunity during Scottie's episode on The Mothership (this series' backdoor pilot) where Solomon addressed shooting up Tom's wedding, where Solomon could have at least admitted "I was just doing it for the money", but he didn't do that... I guess for me I simply contextualized Solomon's prior actions as "he's just doing it for the money" (because I believe that's the ultimate truth) so I can easier accept him as a "good guy" here

Totally agree. They've had opportunities to develop Solomon's character, but so far they haven't. This show is called Blacklist: Redemption, but they haven't given any indication that Solomon desires redemption in any way. I love the Solomon character and if he DOES want redemption, that would likely be a very intriguing story. Not sure why they're not telling it.

3 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

I really dig Edi Gathegi as an actor, so I want this role to be successful, since I think he deserves it (and not "because we need more successful black actors" or anything like that, I'll just get that out of the way).

Ditto, love Edi Gathegi and he's great in this role. And we do need more successful black actors ;)

[Utpe]

To me, this show feels like The Blacklist on speed.  Plus, the technological gizmos they use are pretty laughable.

Solomon becoming a good guy will take a while of getting used to.  This is a chance of him being redeemed, hence calling it Redemption.

But please, for Pete's sake, drop the borderline incest bit.  I'm aware that Susan Hargrave has no idea that Tom is her biological son, but it's the mere fact that we, as the audience, do know.  It's unsettling.

Though, I'm willing to give it a chance.  You can't tell whether an entire series will be bad or good just based off of the first episode.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Utpe

[MostlyC]

VASTLY better than the first episode.

[ottoDbusdriver]

FFS !  Once again, Tom and the team leave the rescued person of the week alone in a room after they just showed signs that he/she wanted to leave -- only to re-enter the room and, surprise, the rescued person is gone.  Is this going to be a weekly event ?  Because it is going to get old quickly.

I'm already bored of the "we're doing good deeds" plot of the week.  It's out of character for Tom, Solomon and Scottie.
When will they start rescuing cats from trees -- but in a sexy way with a happening musical score ?

Edited March 3, 2017 by ottoDbusdriver

[Danielg342]

R.I.P. Kevin Jensen. We hardly knew you.

Or, in his mother's case, she never knew you...or Scottie, at the last moment.

I'm not sure what to make of this, really. I miss the jokes and the banter of the first episode, but it was still fast-paced enough to hold my attention throughout. I kept on thinking there were a lot of glaring mistakes with regards to how the operation really would have worked, but I do think it was entertaining enough for me to bypass all that.

Didn't like them creating a country whose name was so close to a real one. I get that perhaps they didn't want to offend real people by suggesting a country is shady, but at least come up with a name that won't throw people off.

FYI, Kyrkistan, the country they created, basically replaced Azerbaijan- a real country- on the map. It's not Kyrgyzstan (what I initially thought would be the location), which is in Central Asia, bordering China, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. It's nowhere near Turkey or Iran.

I also think Muslims as bad guys is overused these days. Not only is it lazy conceptualizing, it's a bit in bad taste given all the troubles the Muslim community is going through right now.

Hollywood, be different.

As for the Case of the Week- it's good to see a bit more of Scottie's backstory, interspersed with Scottie's recollection of her history with what Tom is told is her actual history. Gave the end where Tom tried to save Jensen a bit more resonance, because Tom now had to save someone who was essentially family to him.

It was kind of strange how this week Tom and Solomon become buddy-buddy after alluding to their difficulties last week. I liked it, though, because they do play off each other so well, but it was still kind of odd. Don't know how you go from "dude, you shot up my wedding" to "I'm going to let you cup my face" but, hey...they make it work.

Didn't like the U.S. government hiding away Jensen's work and using him as a spy, as well as getting in Scottie's face for trying to save him...but, in fairness, Scottie did go rogue.

Thought the Rochester cloak was kind of cool, and at least they gave a reason for their cover to be blown. Still kind of felt some things just happened "for drama" but I did think things were more coherent this week.

Oh, and lastly...can Nez Rowan do anything except drive? Kind of silly that she's a skilled operative but they keep her in the car all the time. Let's mix up the drivers every now and then.

Episode Grade: B-. It's a qualified success- brisk enough but explained enough to work. I just miss some of the witticisms of last week, and the Kyrkistan business was just lazy.

[djinn]

I liked this episode much better than the first one. Mostly because of the emotions involved - that part was quite well-done. I don't know why Tom wouldn't make a copy of everything that was on Kevin's laptop before giving it to the CIA people. Just because.

[mertensia]

Depressing downer of an ending but what else should I expect on this show?

When computer nerd guy said "sweet cheeks" I had a flashback to paranoid Frank saying that on Supernatural.

[Princess Lucky]

Wow. Great episode. It flew by, in a good way.

I continue to love the fact each episode has multiple action sequences, not just a big one. The prison raid was so tense, the roadblock was awesomely dramatic, and there was also the truck stuff, which was so fun. I loved the truck trick, by the way. But I totally knew it wouldn't work as soon as it was demonstrated for the team. I figured there was no need to show us the trick twice, so the second time around would be a fail. I loved the way they did it, with the temperature. Cool way (literally, lol) for Tom to get exposed. These little things (like the pool vortex last week) make this show stand out.

The guy who played Kevin was very good. And I loved how Tom was being protective of him. A childhood friend. That was a smart way to give both Tom and Scottie an emotional connection to the case. And the way Nez and Solomon reacted to Kevin's death, that gave them much needed emotional depth, too. That moment between Solomon and Tom? That gives me hope for Solomon's redemption, as well. And the moment between Scottie and Dumont, when they both knew Kevin was dead? And Famke and the other mother, both having lost their sons? Good, surprisingly emotional stuff. Like, I half-shed a tear. Who would have thought?

Tom: "So they're coming to get us?"
Solomon: "No."
Tom: *insert gif of that blinking guy*

When Scottie said "Kevin and my son were friends" and Tom said "They were?" I was actually moved. Ryan Eggold did so much with that moment, without overacting. I wonder, is this what The Blacklist would be like, if Megan Boone could act? If she weren't so robotic, would all those "emotional" moments between her and Red actually land? That's freaky.

6 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

R.I.P. Kevin Jensen. We hardly knew you.

Or, in his mother's case, she never knew you...or Scottie, at the last moment.

[...]

Oh, and lastly...can Nez Rowan do anything except drive? Kind of silly that she's a skilled operative but they keep her in the car all the time. Let's mix up the drivers every now and then.

Episode Grade: B-. It's a qualified success- brisk enough but explained enough to work. I just miss some of the witticisms of last week, and the Kyrkistan business was just lazy.

I agree with this entire post, but especially the Nez part. She's gotta do more than be the getaway driver, though in this case I assume they couldn't put a woman in as a cop. I loved it when she briefly went undercover and was ready to, like, kill people with her hair pins.

[ottoDbusdriver]

The problem I have is that Solomon, under orders from Scottie Hargreave, attempted to gun down a pregnant woman and her husband (in a church no less) and had no problem pumping said church full of bullets that in all likelihood should have killed Lizzie, but now the outrage by Scottie over the 'co-opting a journalist as a CIA operative/how dare you/how dare you make me lie about to my bestie' just comes off as weak.

Edited March 3, 2017 by ottoDbusdriver

[saber5055]

I turned the channel when the tortured journalist was made to sit in the chair to film his "please save me" speech. I don't want to see tortured people, I don't want to see more "them Muslims are Bad Dudes" television stoking more white supremacist fires. Plus, WTH with Tom now living wherever he is, sitting around waiting for another job for "the team." He doesn't have a wife and infant daughter? To heck with the wife, what about the infant daughter? Oh yeah, she's out playing with his two dogs. While Ryan Eggold is nice to look at, I can't STAND Solomon for all the reasons Otto posted above. He almost kills your wife and unborn child and now you're all best buds? Please. Why wasn't there some other Blacklister Tom could have teamed with, like Fisher Stevens? That partnership I could maybe suffer through for an hour per week. This one, not.

[Danielg342]

I get the sense that "Redemption" would have worked better if it was separate from The Blacklist. Ryan Eggold, Edi Gathegi and Famke Janssen play so well off each other that their interactions alone should make this a hit. Heck, Tawny Cypress and Adrian Martinez are great too- I mean, this just might be TV's best-working cast at the moment.

Yet, because it's tied to The Blacklist, the cast suffers because we will inevitably associate them with what they did before. It's a shame, because I think this show should be a hit.

[Just my 2 cents]

I love Edi Gathegi's acting, but I also have a problem with the Solomon of the past that threatened to crush a baby's skull and kill her with a virus, beat somebody with a sock full of pool table balls, and was about to filet Liz like a fish right after saying, "Presentation is very important."  I'm not getting the ease with loving family man Tom working with Solomon and the possible bromance.  I would have preferred them to spinoff Redemption during the middle of season 2 of The Blacklist or a few episodes before season 2 ended.

[Danielg342]

39 minutes ago, ally said:

I'm not getting the ease with loving family man Tom working with Solomon and the possible bromance.

In fairness, this is the same Tom who physically fought Liz a few times, killed Jolene Parker, killed the Harbormaster and stabbed Asher Sutton in the neck. I'm not sure Tom is all roses either.

Which I think highlights the show's early problem- it hasn't really addressed the characters' transgressions. The characters are hard to root for when the show expects you to simply "forget" what they did before.

[Just my 2 cents]

9 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

In fairness, this is the same Tom who physically fought Liz a few times, killed Jolene Parker, killed the Harbormaster and stabbed Asher Sutton in the neck. I'm not sure Tom is all roses either.

Which I think highlights the show's early problem- it hasn't really addressed the characters' transgressions. The characters are hard to root for when the show expects you to simply "forget" what they did before.

Oh no, I totally agree.  That's why I would have preferred them launching the "Tom Keen" show after he killed the harbor master or before he and Liz got together on the boat.  Basically they should have kept him as questionable.  If they planned on launching the spinoff as a standalone they should have found another way to keep him in The Blacklist's orbit instead of giving him a baby with Liz, although they were smart enough to have Solomon crash the wedding before they were legally married.  Also, I wish they would have kept him on the run by having colleagues of the Major going after him.  You can't tell me he ran that type of program without financial backing and some kind of network in place. 

[milkyaqua]

My take away from this epi:  I was able to flip back and forth at minutes at a time and keep the plot.

Do better show.

[Danielg342]

53 minutes ago, ally said:

Also, I wish they would have kept him on the run by having colleagues of the Major going after him.

That's true. We could have had a "rogue Blacklist" where Tom decides he has to fight back against his old employers, knowing he has to do it alone since, as a fugitive, he can't rely on the police.

I guess it'd be kind of like The Fugitive as a police procedural, but I think it would be fun- and a better premise than The Blacklist.

[Princess Lucky]

Personally I have no trouble rooting for any of these characters, mostly because a) I'm only a casual viewer of The Blacklist, so I barely remember half of the stuff they've done and b) I love all the actors.

But I do agree this show would have been better off launching by itself, as opposed to being a spinoff of another show that's pretty much dead (ratings-wise). I'd totally watch a "new"/original show with all these actors if it were promoted as an Ocean's 11-type of a thing.

[ottoDbusdriver]

11 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Plus, WTH with Tom now living wherever he is, sitting around waiting for another job for "the team." He doesn't have a wife and infant daughter? To heck with the wife, what about the infant daughter? Oh yeah, she's out playing with his two dogs. While Ryan Eggold is nice to look at, I can't STAND Solomon for all the reasons Otto posted above. He almost kills your wife and unborn child and now you're all best buds? Please. Why wasn't there some other Blacklister Tom could have teamed with, like Fisher Stevens? That partnership I could maybe suffer through for an hour per week. This one, not.

Nice !!!  At no point in the entire episode did Tom even mention that he had to call or check-in with Lizzie or Agnes.