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Season 12 Spoilers, Speculation and Anticipation

Danielg342

By Danielg342
in Criminal Minds

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

58 minutes ago, storyskip said:

The lawsuit will bring out details that right now are only speculation.  I suspect CBS/ABC and Williams won't come out of it clean as a whistle so at this point they're the ones with something to lose not Gibson, he's already lost everything.

Right now, with everything that got tossed up into social media and then pulled out, Gibson's career is finished.  He could maybe lie low for awhile and come back in 5 to 10 years but as been said, he's 54 years old.

Best case scenario, CBS/ABC settles and settles big with him and he takes his money and his royalties for CMs and retires to enjoy his children.  Worst case scenario, CBS/ABC and Williams are going to get put under a microscope and Williams' behavior is going to get put on trial.

Because no one is arguing that Gibson stepped over the line when he went physical but there is also no denying that it didn't just drop out of the blue. Williams isn't blameless and Hollywood will be watching.

True, but Gibson is also taking a big risk since I doubt his prior incidents will go unnoticed in a court of law. Williams may have skeletons, but let's not pretend the same doesn't hold true for Gibson's own history.

I think there is a very real possibility of shit flying from both sides.

That's assuming this even makes it to court. I believe it was said Gibson's lawyers were still pondering if there is a case to be had. And even if there is, these things are usually settled before they reach a courtroom.

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WendyCR72
WendyCR72

If this was Gibson's first rodeo in terms of physical violence, I'd say this reaction is an overreaction. However, it isn't. So he got more chances with even having the first instance be all "bygones"

Princess Lucky
Princess Lucky

Actually, close your eyes and replay the situation like so: What if this producer had kicked TG? What if TG had kicked MGG? What if TG had kicked Erica Messer? What if Erica Messer

Princess Lucky
Princess Lucky

But this is the second instance of violence from TG. He "shoved" another person years ago, and that was swept under the rug (obviously, since we're just now finding out about it). Who was that other p

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marascross

marascross

10 hours ago, normasm said:

"Lot of birdies chirping out there; the gossip is real," he said in the video. "I hear it. I see it. I'm sure a lot of you do, too, so I'll just say this: I believe in karma. Good things happen to good people. Honest people. Hard-working people. Humble people. People who believe in basic goodness. People who believe in themselves. People who believe in others. Good things will happen to you; it's not always easy; but you gotta grind it out and you gotta believe in you. Treat people how you expect them to treat you. Celebrate yourself; celebrate your blessings — as you should. But just know that you're not better than anybody. We all have our own gifts, so unwrap them bad boys and show 'em off. But then appreciate other people's gifts. Church is over."

It could be about Thomas, encouraging him, also. That bit about karma, and "good things will happen to you" if you "believe in you." I highly doubt it, but it could be interpreted that way.

*shrug* Too vague. The homily could just as well be applied to Virgil Williams. He'd have more support from fans if he hadn't been so rude to them.

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wknt3

wknt3

9 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

True, but Gibson is also taking a big risk since I doubt his prior incidents will go unnoticed in a court of law. Williams may have skeletons, but let's not pretend the same doesn't hold true for Gibson's own history.

I think there is a very real possibility of shit flying from both sides.

That's assuming this even makes it to court. I believe it was said Gibson's lawyers were still pondering if there is a case to be had. And even if there is, these things are usually settled before they reach a courtroom.

I highly doubt there is any chance this reaches a courtroom. I haven't followed this show closely for about 4 years, but I have seen enough to know that it has not been a pleasant or professional environment. And that Gibson was part of the problem. His reps have to weigh possible money against further ruining his reputation and his chances of an eventual comeback. The production side doesn't really care about Williams but about the PR hit and everything coming out publicly inviting further lawsuits. Like I said before I'm glad I'm not one of the lawyers involved. I can't imagine trying to defend workplace assault or the CM casting and decision making processes.

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normasm

normasm

Absolutely no one here is defending workplace assault, so just forget that implication going by the wayside with a wink. 

Those of us, again let it be stated(!), who are sorry TG is gone are not excusing him, at least not here on this forum. I don't know what all the crazies are doing elsewhere, but we here, as a group, are disappointed in Thomas for striking out physically, and that would be true if it were Virgil or anyone. What we can't seem to talk rationally about is that some disagree about the harshness of the punishment, and some of us look at Virgil's behavior in the aftermath as specious. This is no way means "polish up a halo for Thomas"!

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Bookish Jen

Bookish Jen

38 minutes ago, normasm said:

Absolutely no one here is defending workplace assault, so just forget that implication going by the wayside with a wink. 

Those of us, again let it be stated(!), who are sorry TG is gone are not excusing him, at least not here on this forum. I don't know what all the crazies are doing elsewhere, but we here, as a group, are disappointed in Thomas for striking out physically, and that would be true if it were Virgil or anyone. What we can't seem to talk rationally about is that some disagree about the harshness of the punishment, and some of us look at Virgil's behavior in the aftermath as specious. This is no way means "polish up a halo for Thomas"!

Exactly. We can miss Hotch as a character and TG as an actor, but not a single one of us is condoning his violent behavior towards a co-worker, especially when he has a history violence and anger issues.

That being said, Virgil may be a victim of said violence, and yes, he has every right to be angry about this. That doesn't mean his is a perfect angel regarding his CM gig. I don't like his writing, and his behavior via his Twitter feed is immature and unprofessional.

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Bookish Jen

Bookish Jen

(edited)
On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 7:36 PM, Danielg342 said:

My thoughts:

  • Hotch is recast with a different actor- No, just no. Too hokey, there's no way you can ever justifiably explain it. Plus, this is a procedural- the characters are supposed to be somewhat "disposable".
  • Hotch quits, with no on-screen goodbye, because he can't stomach the job anymore- Possible, but I can't see Hotch being a "quitter". Especially in the middle of an important case.
  • Hotch quits, with no on-screen goodbye, to focus on family/personal life- Perhaps, but I could only justify this if there was a close call with regards to Jack. I doubt Hotch would quit, mid-case, unless the situation warrants it.
  • Hotch takes a new job, with no on-screen goodbye- Again, Hotch isn't a quitter. He'd have to be forced into this situation.
  • Hotch dies- Probably the most salivating one from a writer's perspective (nothing beats the punch of a death) but my issue with this is that it's permanent. Not to make apologies for what Hotch did, but what if we get to S15 or something and Hotch and Virgil Williams patch things up? It would then suck if Hotch couldn't be in the CM finale.
  • Hotch mysteriously vanishes- TVLine says Peter Lewis could use mind control to make Hotch disappear but this feels hokey and too "science-fiction-y" for me to believe. I could buy an alternate scenario where Hotch vanishes for other more "down to Earth" reasons. I think I'd prefer this one because at least it gives the option to bring him back should Hotch's situation and the feeling in the producer's room about him improves.
  • Hotch gets fired- I added this one. I could totally buy a situation where Hotch, due to the stresses of his job, lashes out against an inferior and gets fired by the FBI for it. Yeah, it'd be too much "fiction mirrors reality" but it could be a nice way for the writers to "write" how frustrating it must be to adjust for this new reality, and it does send the message to the fans that what Gibson did was wrong. Just as long as this scenario doesn't resemble too much what Gibson did to Williams, I'd be fine with it. The only issue here would be is that Hotch would likely still want to "continue" with the case, like he did with the Joe Smith case, but this could be done via texts or phone calls to Rossi.

All interesting ideas...

Or maybe CM could have Bob Newhart wake-up next to the late Suzanne Pleshette, and he tells her of this very strange dream he had where he was a profiler with the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit and his last name was Hotch.

Edited by Bookish Jen
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Old Dog

Old Dog

Ok then - so we are losing Hotch, Episode 2 (his last episode) is going to drag up the unspeakable bilge that was 200 yet again, Matthew is rumoured to be taking several episodes out like last season, we are set to have the Girl Squad thrust at us ....... time to break out the sloe gin methinks! I'm posting a sad puppy pic because that's how I feel.

ODZgHUv.jpg

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normasm

normasm

20 minutes ago, Old Dog said:

Ok then - so we are losing Hotch, Episode 2 (his last episode) is going to drag up the unspeakable bilge that was 200 yet again, Matthew is rumoured to be taking several episodes out like last season, we are set to have the Girl Squad thrust at us ....... time to break out the sloe gin methinks! I'm posting a sad puppy pic because that's how I feel.

ODZgHUv.jpg

O.D., where did you hear MGG is going to take time off?

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ReidFan

ReidFan

:::meeting in Erica Messer's office:::  "Matthew, sweetness, love bug..We've lost Shemar and now Thomas in the last five episodes. I really really really need you to stay for every episode this season. I know we gave you the three off again, but we can't afford to lose the last original continuous serving character. What'll it take? You wanna direct a dozen episodes this season? done! you want your character to have the most awesome gf ever in a five episode arc that doesn't end in her gratuitous death? done. We'll double up filming your scenes in September and November and give you October off so we could cut those scenes into the episodes you'd be 'missing' from. You want a producer credit? done! You want sugar mint cookies from Milwaukee? done! I'll have Booky deliver them personally. you want cheese from that lovely town in the UK? done! OleDoggie will fly it in on the next flight!

 

did I forget anything?

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normasm

normasm

3 hours ago, Bookish Jen said:

All interesting ideas...

Or maybe CM could have Bob Newhart wake-up next to the late Suzanne Pleshette, and he tells her of this very strange dream he had where he was a profiler with the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit and his last name was Hotch.

OK, if Bob Newhart is waking up next to the late Suzanne Pleshette, we may have our next Unsub, and a very unexpected one, too...

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zannej

zannej

9 hours ago, Bookish Jen said:

All interesting ideas...

Or maybe CM could have Bob Newhart wake-up next to the late Suzanne Pleshette, and he tells her of this very strange dream he had where he was a profiler with the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit and his last name was Hotch.

Another idea: Hotch goes in to witness protection and has to take Jessica, his father-in-law, and Jack with him.

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smoker

smoker

5 hours ago, zannej said:

Another idea: Hotch goes in to witness protection and has to take Jessica, his father-in-law, and Jack with him.

It would be great if it was only to cover a suspension.

I would like they gave Hotch a promotion, somethimg higher in the ranks, just like season 9 premiere, Reid said if Hotch took Strauss' job they wont see him again. I think I said this before, sorry for repeating myself.

So JJ - 6x03, but without friendly goodbyes... God, they are going to pee on the character due to bad writing no matter what, isn't it?  :S

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Mislav

Mislav

16 hours ago, ReidFan said:

:::meeting in Erica Messer's office:::  "Matthew, sweetness, love bug..We've lost Shemar and now Thomas in the last five episodes. I really really really need you to stay for every episode this season. I know we gave you the three off again, but we can't afford to lose the last original continuous serving character. What'll it take? You wanna direct a dozen episodes this season? done! you want your character to have the most awesome gf ever in a five episode arc that doesn't end in her gratuitous death? done. We'll double up filming your scenes in September and November and give you October off so we could cut those scenes into the episodes you'd be 'missing' from. You want a producer credit? done! You want sugar mint cookies from Milwaukee? done! I'll have Booky deliver them personally. you want cheese from that lovely town in the UK? done! OleDoggie will fly it in on the next flight!

 

did I forget anything?

This is priceless :) Only if it would come true... well, I still have hope for Spencer/Matthew.

Mislav

Mislav

I actually think that recasting Hotch may be the best option. Yes, it is still silly, and would suck in at least some ways, but let's look at the other options...

 

 

Option 1: Hotch gets killed off. Putting aside the fact how tragic that would be, they've already done that kind of storyline (with Gideon). How does Hotch get killed off, exactly? Since those serial killers escaped, some of whom might hold a grudge against the BAU, wouldn't all the members of the BAU be provided with a police protection? Will we have another dirty cop/elusive hitman arc? Why would the killer go after Hotch, but not the rest of the team? And if he/she does try going after the rest of the team after murdering Hotch-haven't they done that already, two times? And isn't that more of a "season finale" plotline, albeit a cliche one? Not something you go pull off in the third episode of the season. And would they actually repeat the "style" of "Nelson's Sparrow" again-Hotch getting killed off without making any on screen appearence, except maybe a flashback of him from the younger days, portrayed by a different actor? So awkward. Might as well re-cast him. What are the alternatives? Him getting killed during a routine investigation, off screen? Him having a heart attack, off screen?

 

 

Option 2: Hotch leaves, or gets, uhm, fired or re assigned. Again, that would equal some new guy just arriving without Hotch having any meaningful interaction with the rest of the team before that. And Hotch is not a quiter. So, a new leader just shows up, others are sad but aren't shown talking to Hotch at all, discussing things prior to him leaving (they would be notified before)? Hotch isn't shown accepting his fate?

 

 

Option 3: Hotch is abducted or goes missing, presumed to be abducted. Could work, even without Hotch getting any screen time in the episode when it happens. However, the writers would only be buying some time, and anyone remotely familiar with the circumstances surrounding Thomas Gibson's exit would know that there are only two possiblities

 

a) wait for the final episode of the season, or even more, for Virgil and Thomas to patch things up at least a bit, so Thomas can return for one episode, his character to be found, then decide to leave the BAU

 

b) the writers are doing nothing more than buying themselves some time and trying to keep the show interesting, eventually they will have to kill off Hotch, or, even worse, somehow left that story open ended.

 

 

Option 4: Aaron goes into witness protection program, presumably with Jake and Jessica, off screen. He never appears on the show again, even after the investigation is closed. Or eventually gets killed. Off screen.

 

 

I mean, those exits could make sense without the "off screen" element, if someone would allow Thomas Gibson to make one more appearence, for an exit episode. But it appears that that won't happen. He might deserve such treatment, but from creative point of view, explaining his absence or exit in a believable and at least somewhat satisfying and original way would be impossible. Might as well recast him...

orza

orza

My observations of how other shows handle things: When the studio or network is sure the actor will not be coming back the character gets killed off. When the actor left on bad terms they just rip off the band-aid with a quick character death and then move on. The character is never or rarely mentioned again. Coming up with a story arc to write the character out of the show and continuing to mention the character reminds viewers of the departed actor and typically leads to unwanted questions from fans and reporters about the possibility of him returning to the show. Keeping the character alive also invites constant questions and speculation about a possible return. That's something the studio probably doesn't want to deal with. I doubt that there is any possibility of Gibson ever appearing in a future episode.

A traffic accident is probably the best way to kill off Hotch. It can plausibly happen off screen, requires no setup or exposition, there is nothing to investigate, no door is left open for a return and everyone can move on. On the other hand, recasting the role would really send the message that Gibson is never coming back.

Danielg342

Danielg342

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(edited)

Recasting would be easier if this was a science fiction show or a comic book show. I mean, I suppose Hotch could be disfigured so badly due to an attack or accident of some kind and his surgery leads to a new appearance...but still...it feels hokey to me.

I've visualized Hotch as Thomas Gibson for so long...it's too much to get me to accept someone else in the role.

Edited by Danielg342
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normasm

normasm

(edited)

I would much rather the character of Hotch die a noble death than that he turns into David Caruso or someone else! I think the fans are owed a tribute to Hotch, although, if i really had my druthers, I would want him to be able to come back when all this died down. Not bloody likely, I know.

Edited by normasm
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ForeverAlone

ForeverAlone

In this day and age, I think the audience reaction to a Hotch recast would be much more negative than Hotch just leaving for a new job, or even killing him off. That would just never be accepted by the fandom, and why would CBS/ABC want to constantly remind audiences of Hotch and therefore Thomas, when it seems they just want to quickly move past this? 

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smoker

smoker

(edited)

Paget B came back, Jorja Fox came back, I Washington finished the season and  came back! George Eads was invited to come back...

Teri Hatcher" was horrible to work with and what about Julianna M. and Archie P. their interaction was pathetic and  they (creators) tried to give some closure to the character.

Time and money, thats the recipe. I wouldn't mind seeing him on the season finale of the show. 

In the worst case scenario I'd prefer a heart attack or an accident, you know, life is like that. Although, a promotion is my first choice the main problem will be the bad writing, as always.

Edited by smoker
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orza

orza

Getting physically violent is a completely different class of behavior from being difficult to work with. The studio and network have a responsibility and obligation to ensure a safe environment for everyone who works there, and to take steps to minimize liability and exposure to lawsuits. Those needs outweigh any desire of fans to have satisfying closure for a character. Studios are also free to change their policies to crack down on verbal and physical abuse in the work place, so what other actors may or may not have gotten away with in the past has no bearing on the present.

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smoker

smoker

(edited)

That's why I have included several names, I. Washington was involved in a fistfight and he finished the season and after a long time he came back once, CM season just began and 20 episodes may be too much, but it would have been acceptable half a season or a few episodes to write a proper send-off; a long absence and then retirement or whatever. 

And after explaining myself, I want to add Studios (all of them) are the most responsible for these behaviors and their consequences because they cover for them and for worse things than this while they can.

And God knows I'm a worker myself, but if I became responsible of some workers someday and some of them came into my office and tells me they only want to work 3 days a week while gaining an indecent amount of money and bringing no manners, that's their last day working for me. And I think there is a key detail we don't know for this imminent dismissal and as sad as it sounds I don't think it's the kick.

As you have said there are legal obligations and lawsuits on the table. Ok, perfect. Let VW fill a formal lawsuit then. Because this smells like blackmail "fire him or I'll fill a lawsuit", and I don't like bad/violent behavior, but I don't like being lied and manipulated to my face either, and I can't stand their hypocrisy and demagogy.

Edited by smoker
ForeverAlone

ForeverAlone

(edited)

When someone is being fired suddenly in the middle of a season, the network is not going to allow an extended exit. A "proper sendoff: could almost be considered a gift, and no network is going to reward anyone they are firing for cause. Isaiah Washington wasn't fired until AFTER the season ended, and that was only after months of public debate and outside pressure to let him go. 

Edited by ForeverAlone
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ForeverAlone

ForeverAlone

I am still in favor of an angst free exit, where Hotch simply takes another job opportunity. The writers sent him quickly off on some temporary duty to explain his absence in episode three. That could easily be extended and turned into a permanent job. I am not in favor of some big angst-filled exit, because I don't feel it is necessary. Why drag stuff out or make it more negative or overwrought than it needs to be? Why not make it a positive thing (albeit offscreen)? 

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smoker

smoker

2 minutes ago, ForeverAlone said:

I am still in favor of an angst free exit, where Hotch simply takes another job opportunity. The writers sent him quickly off on some temporary duty to explain his absence in episode three. That could easily be extended and turned into a permanent job. I am not in favor of some big angst-filled exit, because I don't feel it is necessary. Why drag stuff out or make it more negative or overwrought than it needs to be? Why not make it a positive thing (albeit offscreen)? 

I prefer that too or a promotion, but I doubt we got something like that. And if they bring some drama, at least, a sick child is something different

ForeverAlone

ForeverAlone

(edited)

Hotch and Jack are fake characters. If the writers want them to like nannies, they will like nannies. Since I am in favor a positive job change for Hotch and nothing angst-filled or overwrought, I am not in favor of any death, accident or illness to Hotch or anyone in his life. Because it sounds like this will all have to be done offscreen, there is no need for the writers to be over the top about it. 

Edited by ForeverAlone
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smoker

smoker

1 minute ago, ForeverAlone said:

Hotch and Jack are fake characters. If the writers want them to like nannies, they will like nannies. Since I am in favor a positive job change for Hotch and nothing angst-filled or overwrought, I am not in favor of any death, accident or illness to Hotch or anyone in his life. Since this will all have to be done offscreen, there is no need for the writers to be over the top about it. 

I wish you were right.

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