S11.E21: All In The Family

[MysteryGuest]

5 hours ago, Actualized Peggy said:

What’s interesting is that I immediately dismissed it as the writers screwing up big time, but I really like your alternate theory, MysteryGuest: Chuck’s is a lying liar who lies. Question is, why?

Actualized Peggy, I'm not really sure why God would lie, but it was far too big of a plot hole to think it was anything else.  They literally had characters contradicting each other in back to back scenes on two separate occasions.  I think we were meant to notice that.  I don't believe that God has any intention of going to Amara, at least not until he's good and ready.  You would think that God would almost be compelled to be truthful, but this version of God is teeming with character flaws.

[catrox14]

19 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Actualized Peggy, I'm not really sure why God would lie, but it was far too big of a plot hole to think it was anything else.  They literally had characters contradicting each other in back to back scenes on two separate occasions.  I think we were meant to notice that.  I don't believe that God has any intention of going to Amara, at least not until he's good and ready.  You would think that God would almost be compelled to be truthful, but this version of God is teeming with character flaws.

I'm starting to the this God might not be THE God but he made his own doppelganger who is doing the dirty work that Actual!God won't do, like lying and obfuscation and what not. Chod is a Cylon.

OMG. I can die happy. I have finally managed a BSG/SPN crossover. RIP ME

[DittyDotDot]

I think it's not so much that Chuck is out-and-out lying, but he just isn't telling the whole truth.

However, I assumed that Amara was trying to draw Chuck out, but on her terms. So, she could be warding herself against Chuck except when she specifically wants him to show up. Which would be foolish for Chuck to show up on her terms.

[BlueMeanie]

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

...wearing the blue jacket of bad decisions( tm @SueB) .

LOL!

I definitely don't think that Chuck is being entirely honest.  It seems obvious to me that he was lying about Amara having warded herself against him.  However, I don't think Chuck was saying that Lucifer didn't help him lock up the darkness, I think he was just saying no to any future involvement with Lucifer.  He never actually said Lucifer didn't help before.  It sounds like he did because he said "no" right after the boys mentioned it, but I think he was just cutting them off from the idea of getting Lucifer involved again.  The Chuck/Lucifer relationship is strained, to say the least.

[Bishop]

I thought it was an okay episode.  Some of it I enjoyed, and some of it is becoming a bit too out there.  God writing an autobiography, and Metatron having to tell the Winchesters about the end, and yada, yada, yada.  

I did love Dean's reaction to God, treating him with respect but also an angry and hurt child at what had happened over hte course of his life and the fights that he and his brother (and his family and friends) have had to endure over the years.  I appreciated that the writers didn't write Chuck as sarcastic and snarky because I would expect God to have some grace and behave in a more mature way and less frat boy - like many of the angels and demons tend to act.  I also loved Sam's reaction to Chuck because it was so Sam of him to have fifty million questions.

Apart from that and getting to see Kevin, the rest kind of fell flat. The problem I'm having with Supernatural now is that there is no where to go from here.  I mean nothing tops God.  So they've encountered monsters, demons, angels, the King of Hell, Death, Lucifer, the Archangel Michael, and now God himself.  What exactly will they be doing next season?  These last few episodes seem more like a series finale than a season finale, especially for next week, because I can't think of how you can top demons and angels banding together with God and the WInchesters to take down a psychotic sister who wants to obliterate humanity and the earth.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Bishop

[MysteryGuest]

The "where do they go from here" concern is one that a lot of us share.  I'm all for backing away from the heaven and hell stories and having more MOTW episodes, but they need to be a bit meatier than just the usual filler fare we sometimes get.  I also still enjoy Crowley and Castiel, so I don't know how to keep them as recurring characters, while moving on from angels and demons.  I'd like to think that the writers have thought beyond the next two episodes, but I'm not sure just how far ahead they plan their storylines.  Sometimes it seems like they go for the big finale episode with no idea how to continue that story into the next season.  

We have a confirmed season 12, which is great, so I guess we'll see where the story takes us.

[BlueMeanie]

23 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Sometimes it seems like they go for the big finale episode with no idea how to continue that story into the next season.  

I'm pretty sure this is actually the case.  I know I've heard people say it in interviews or at conventions or something.

Whatever happened to monsters wanting to help fight the darkness, like the ghoulpires from Baby?

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, BlueMeanie said:

Whatever happened to monsters wanting to help fight the darkness, like the ghoulpires from Baby?

I was wondering that myself.

[catrox14]

Tippi TV's glorious recap

http://tippitv.tumblr.com/post/144662642492/tippitv-supernatural-recap-11-21-all-in-the

Highlights for me

Quote

 

“Call out to him to come save you,” she says, obviously because she’s trying to get her brother God to come to her. Remember this for the next scene.

Back at the bunker, Chuck starts out saying that Amara is beyond all human comprehension but then follows it up with comparing his relationship with her to Sam and Dean’s relationship. Well, I guess that’s not comprehensible, either.

“So where is she?” Dean asks. Chuck says he has no idea. “She’s warded herself specifically against me,” he says.

 

Quote

 

Next, the Winchesters head off to meet Metatron at a bar. Like, here’s the guy who ordered Kevin’s murder, fucked over Heaven, stole Castiel’s grace, KILLED Dean by skewering him through the heart, and the bros are only VERY SLIGHTLY ANNOYED by him. I think Dean was more upset when Sam drank all the coffee in the bunker.

Looks like it’s time to update my infographic.

 

[Ubiquitous]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 3:43 PM, Wynne88 said:

Didn't they say that was a result of smiting sickness?  I may be misremembering though.

I think Cas said that. Thanks for reminding me.

Was it this ep or the next that had a scene with gawd and Dean talking at a park watching the children play? Why did Dean suddenly disappear?

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I rewatched this tonight.   My earlier impressions were still pretty spot on.  

• While the acting was incredible in the scene where Dean confronts Guck about his absence, I still think it was an epic fail for the writers not to have Dean ask about the Apocalypse instead of wars and famines, or whatever it was Dean asked about.  I mean, that's something tangible which deeply affected both brothers - and still does - and was, imo, Not Their Fault At All.  It also wasn't due to Human immaturity like wars, etc.  It was completely due to the Angels - those celestial beings created by Guck himself who were supposed to protect mankind - and yet manipulated Sam, Dean, and who knows how many other humans into breaking the seals that allowed Lucifer to get out of the cage and necessitated Sam jumping into the Pit.  But I understand why they couldn't have Dean ask about that: because there was NO good answer that the SPN!God could have given for allowing all that to happen.  That was more than "stepping away" and not being an "enabler" could ever cover.  Still, it was very unsatisfactory for me.  
• And speaking of - when Guck snarked at Sam for letting Lucifer out of the cage - I'm assuming he meant this latest time.  Except it wasn't Sam who let him out the last time.  Sam said No.  Roweena let the warding fail (or designed it so it would).  And Cas said Yes.  So Not Sam's Fault, Guck.  
• I did think the simultaneous head/body tilt when Kevin popped out from behind Guck was adorable.  And the scene in the car with Donatello was still funny.  

On 6/9/2016 at 7:41 AM, Ubiquitous said:

Was it this ep or the next that had a scene with gawd and Dean talking at a park watching the children play? 

Yes, that was this episode.  

[Demented Daisy]

28 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

But I understand why they couldn't have Dean ask about that: because there was NO good answer that the SPN!God could have given for allowing all that to happen.

Except there is.  Before I go on, have you seen Kevin Smith's Dogma?  Are you aware that Kripke was influenced by that movie?  

[RulerofallIsurvey]

2 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

Except there is.  Before I go on, have you seen Kevin Smith's Dogma?  Are you aware that Kripke was influenced by that movie?  

Yes.  Dogma was a good movie.  (An Aside: Lent my copy to friend and never got it back.  Sigh.  Now I'm going to have to buy another.)  I've heard that Kripke was influenced by it, but to be honest, I haven't really seen a lot of that influence in the show - but maybe I'm just thinking of the later seasons.  And anyway, Guck wasn't lying unconscious in some hospital in NJ, was he?  :)

[Demented Daisy]

No, he wasn't.  :-)  (The influence is really only seen in the first 5 seasons, I think.)

I believe that Kripke was influenced by Smith's reasoning about Bartleby and Loki being unable to enter Heaven.  God made a decision and cast them out; had they been able to return, it would have been in direct violation of God's command, thereby unmaking the whole of existence.  Because, as Metatron pointed out, God is infallible.

If Kripke did follow this line of reasoning, then God would have been unable to stop the Apocalypse because it would have been in direct violation of his previous command.  (Per Gabriel.)  Thus destroying the very thing he wanted Sam and Dean to save.  So he did the only thing he could do -- help them peripherally.  

I wrote a much longer and more eloquent post somewhere....  Where did I leave that thing?

[RulerofallIsurvey]

12 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

If Kripke did follow this line of reasoning, then God would have been unable to stop the Apocalypse because it would have been in direct violation of his previous command.  (Per Gabriel.)  Thus destroying the very thing he wanted Sam and Dean to save.  So he did the only thing he could do -- help them peripherally.  

Ah, okay.  I see where you're going with this.  Tbh, I'd forgotten about that bit of logic in Dogma.  I'm still not convinced it really applies to SPN though.  But then again, I can't remember exactly what God/Chuck/Guck's previous command was.  And even if they did state it in the show (as per Gabriel) do we really know for certain that was Guck's actual command?  I mean, the angels were pretty good at lying.  :)  

[Demented Daisy]

18 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I can't remember exactly what God/Chuck/Guck's previous command was.  And even if they did state it in the show (as per Gabriel) do we really know for certain that was Guck's actual command?

Hard to say.  Did God explicitly say it would be Sam and Dean, or did he word it a little more nebulously and the angels engineered the birth of Sam and Dean to fulfill those roles?

Quote

 

GABRIEL
You sorry sons of bitches. Why do you think you two are the vessels? Think about it. Michael, the big brother, loyal to an absent father, and Lucifer, the little brother, rebellious of Daddy's plan. You were born to this, boys. It's your destiny! It was always you! As it is in heaven, so it must be on earth. One brother has to kill the other.

DEAN
What the hell are you saying?

GABRIEL
Why do you think I've always taken such an interest in you? Because from the moment Dad flipped on the lights around here, we knew it was all gonna end with you. Always.

 

Gabriel doesn't explicitly say.  Either way, I think God decided that he didn't want to see humanity destroyed.  That he made that command back when he was "vengeful and hot-tempered" as Dogma Metatron put it.  But he couldn't openly defy his own word.  So he did the only thing he could do, help Sam and Dean as indirectly as possible.

That's my theory, anyway.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Maybe it's just me, cause I'm not seeing it.  I'm not even sure that God/Chuck/Guck wanted the Apocalypse to happen at all.  Based on that bit of dialog, this makes no sense:

4 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

As it is in heaven, so it must be on earth. One brother has to kill the other.

Except, in heaven, no brother had (or even has) killed the other.  On SPN, Michael threw Lucifer in the cage, but he didn't kill him.  In the source material (The Bible) Lucifer (The Dragon) is finally defeated for good by Jesus, not Michael, and then brought before God for judgement.  God casts the Dragon into the Lake of Fire, but he is still not killed (only tormented day and night - kind of like being in the cage, I guess.)  Cain killed Abel, but that was on earth.  So I guess I'm being really dense, but I don't see where the "One brother has to kill the other" comes from and how that applies.  (That's not a knock against your explanation, but rather I see it as a writing/story fail.)  

I think maybe the angels engineered the entire Apocalypse thing in the first place.  Chuck was gone for a long time.  We don't know how long.  The whole, "born to this" and "destiny" bit was created by the Angels.  Don't we have confirmation of that, with the Cupid who said that the order came from Heaven to get John Winchester and Mary Campbell together? - and that was after Chuck was already MIA.  

As far as the "we knew it was all gonna end with you. Always."  I don't know.  Again, the angels lie.  I think it's possible that they all thought it was going to end with Sam and Dean because that's the way the angels themselves tried to make it happen - because they were tired of waiting around for Chuck to come home - not because of any decree from Chuck.  

Where was I going with this?  I don't know - I still don't know what God's exact 'command' was, and I think that makes a difference.  It could potentially make a Big difference.  I think there's wiggle room if the show ever wanted to have Chuck come back and say that was never his plan.  I don't know if they would.  But since they also never really said that it definitely WAS Chuck's plan for the End of the World, then I think Dean should have asked about it.  And if it really was Chuck's plan because of your theory, hell, they could have come out and said that too, instead of just not addressing it at all.  

If it works for you then...I'm jealous!  Lol!  No, really.  Because it just doesn't quite fit for me.  Also, imo, Chuck's 'help' was fairly non-existent most of the time.  (But then, I've only watched the seasons through once, so maybe a rewatch is in order? So I can pick up on things I missed the first time.)

p.s. I'm not sure anything I wrote above makes any sense!  I had it all figured out in my head, but it didn't seem to want to come out quite right, so I apologize if it's all a mess!  Lol.  

[Demented Daisy]

14 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I don't see where the "One brother has to kill the other" comes from and how that applies.  (That's not a knock against your explanation, but rather I see it as a writing/story fail.)  

I think that was more in reference to what would happen during the Apocalypse, not that it had already happened.  That the fight between Lucifer/Sam and Michael/Dean was pre-ordained and one would have to kill the other.  

 

14 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I think maybe the angels engineered the entire Apocalypse thing in the first place.  Chuck was gone for a long time.  We don't know how long.  The whole, "born to this" and "destiny" bit was created by the Angels.  Don't we have confirmation of that, with the Cupid who said that the order came from Heaven to get John Winchester and Mary Campbell together? - and that was after Chuck was already MIA.  

As far as the "we knew it was all gonna end with you. Always."  I don't know.  Again, the angels lie.  I think it's possible that they all thought it was going to end with Sam and Dean because that's the way the angels themselves tried to make it happen - because they were tired of waiting around for Chuck to come home - not because of any decree from Chuck.

Hey, that's what I said.  ;-)

19 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

Did God explicitly say it would be Sam and Dean, or did he word it a little more nebulously and the angels engineered the birth of Sam and Dean to fulfill those roles?

 

14 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I think Dean should have asked about it.

I think, for the most part, Sam and Dean have put the Apocalypse-that-wasn't behind them.  I think they blame the angels, not Chuck.  But, of course, mileage varies.

14 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Also, imo, Chuck's 'help' was fairly non-existent most of the time.  (But then, I've only watched the seasons through once, so maybe a rewatch is in order? So I can pick up on things I missed the first time.)

Well, I suppose it depends on what you consider helping.  Putting Sam and Dean on the plane, detoxing Sam, bringing Castiel back (a couple of times), saving them from Zachariah (by sending Joshua to talk to them) then bringing them back to life -- it's all about perspective.

My theory is that God could not directly stop the Apocalypse once the angels started it.  This is a theory that I developed after watching the show for years, not in the immediate aftermath of Swan Song.  And, yeah, it works for me because I don't like stories to fill in every blank.  I like that years later, I can still think/theorize about it.

But, as always, mileage varies.  :-)

[DittyDotDot]

39 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

My theory is that God could not directly stop the Apocalypse once the angels started it.  This is a theory that I developed after watching the show for years, not in the immediate aftermath of Swan Song.  And, yeah, it works for me because I don't like stories to fill in every blank.  I like that years later, I can still think/theorize about it.

My theory has always been that God could've stopped the apocalypse once the angels started it, but he didn't think it was his place to out-and-out stop it. God allowed free will to exist, so he doesn't want to take that away just because he doesn't like what his creations did with it. He allowed himself to help a bit here and there--like putting Sam and Dean on that plane and saving Cass--but never directly interfering or taking away anyone's free will. 

To torture a metaphor--HEE!!!--Basically, it wasn't Chuck's fight to win or lose back in S5. He was in their corner, but would neither thrown in the towel or his own hat. Instead, he patched 'em back up and kept them on their feet so they could win the fight for themselves. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

6 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

I think, for the most part, Sam and Dean have put the Apocalypse-that-wasn't behind them.  I think they blame the angels, not Chuck.

Yeah, I would have agreed with that (for the later seasons anyway), back when they thought God was MIA and not coming back.  But in this ep, Dean confronted Chuck about wars and such.  Chuck said he was aware.  He was aware.  Aware of it all.  And Dean called him out about that (and doing nothing).   So, knowing that, I'm not so sure about whether or not they might hold Chuck a little to blame now.  

5 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

My theory has always been that God could've stopped the apocalypse once the angels started it, but he didn't think it was his place to out-and-out stop it. God allowed free will to exist, so he doesn't want to take that away just because he doesn't like what his creations did with it.

I kind of like this better than the theory that God couldn't stop it for reasons that it might contradict His will.  (Although I like that one too, if only I felt it actually fit the show better.)  The problem I have with this one is that since I think the angels started the Apocalypse - and they weren't supposed to have free will - starting it was not a human-with-free-will undertaking.  Therefore the free will argument in terms of stopping it doesn't apply.  I dunno...I think I'm talking myself in circles.  :)

Edited November 18, 2016 by RulerofallIsurvey
clarification.

[Demented Daisy]

Here's the funny thing: in which episode does an angel say it doesn't have free will?  It's an idea that we talk about a lot, but I don't remember an angel ever saying they were never given free will.  If they were not, then how did Lucifer rebel?  How did Gabriel choose not to fight?  How did Anna fall?  How did Castiel choose Sam and Dean over the angels' plan?  And so on and so forth.

For what it's worth, Bartleby says it in Dogma (some of this is NSFW, some of it sounds an awful lot like a certain SPN angel):

 

[DittyDotDot]

2 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

The problem I have with this one is that since I think the angels started the Apocalypse - and they weren't supposed to have free will - starting it was not a human-with-free-will undertaking.  Therefore the free will argument in terms of stopping it doesn't apply.

Well, that's if you think the apocalypse was actually Gods intended plan. IMO, God didn't have any real plans. He created stuff and then sat back to see what happened. The archangels made the plan, IMO, and sold the whole notion to the lower angels as God's will. They made sure the grunts on the ground believed they had no free will so they could keep control over them. But, they always had free will--or else Anna, Cass and Lucifer could've never rebelled in the first place--they just didn't know they had the ability to make their own choices.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

23 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Well, that's if you think the apocalypse was actually Gods intended plan. IMO, God didn't have any real plans. He created stuff and then sat back to see what happened. The archangels made the plan, IMO, and sold the whole notion to the lower angels as God's will. They made sure the grunts on the ground believed they had no free will so they could keep control over them. But, they always had free will--or else Anna, Cass and Lucifer could've never rebelled in the first place--they just didn't know they had the ability to make their own choices.

Huh.  Well, I don't really think that the apocalypse (at least as how it was intended by the angels to play out on SPN) was Chuck's plan.  But not sure about the rest.  Sounds good about the archangels pulling one over on the lower ranks.  I thought there was some line somewhere about until Cas rebelled and stood by the Winchesters (something about "threw out the playbook"?) the angels didn't know that they could have free will.  I could be wrong about that though.  And that could still support what you are saying.  I just thought it applied to all the choirs of angels.

[DittyDotDot]

27 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Huh.  Well, I don't really think that the apocalypse (at least as how it was intended by the angels to play out on SPN) was Chuck's plan.  But not sure about the rest.  Sounds good about the archangels pulling one over on the lower ranks.  I thought there was some line somewhere about until Cas rebelled and stood by the Winchesters (something about "threw out the playbook"?) the angels didn't know that they could have free will.  I could be wrong about that though.  And that could still support what you are saying.  I just thought it applied to all the choirs of angels.

I believe the line about throwing out the playbook came from one of the Fates. It's wasn't really about the angels specifically, but about how stopping the apocalypse meant the universe wasn't predictable to her anymore. But, IMO, that's because the archangels were gone and no one was writing the playbook nor making sure that playbook actually happens as written anymore.

I think there was always free will for the angels, but most of them just didn't realize they had it. Ending the apocalypse showed them free will was there, but most of them just don't understand the appeal of it. The whole notion is just confusing and chaotic madness to them.

Edited November 18, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[AwesomO4000]

I also think that most angels thought that if they didn't follow orders, they would be punished - and that did often seem to be the case - so therefor it was easier and safer to not even consider free will. From what Castiel said during "The Man Who Would Be King," it also sounded like, as DittyDotDot said, it was just an uncomfortable concept for many of them. Like a Vulcan considering emotions. They were just more comfortable following orders and having that purpose in their existences.

Of course there were exceptions as already stated above. I would also add Uriel, who even went around killing angels who didn't agree with his plan to rebel. He certainly didn't seem to have any problem with not following orders or going against God's plan to respect humanity.

[bettername2come]

Kevin! And he actually got to meet God and get his prophet on! Yay! Kevin's going to heaven! I like that moment of Sam babbling while Dean's all quiet and still. Love that conversation between Chuck and Dean. Jensen Ackles is such a wonderfully talented, underappreciated actor. I love that God is looking at Sam when he says he always had faith in him, just because in season 4, Chuck did try to steer him in the right direction and away from drinking demon blood. Also, he whacked Sam in the face with a plunger when he started the apocalypse and it's kind of fun to realize things like that now. I like him getting a little angry and giving him the "And I wasn't going to bring this up, but thank you so much for springing him" comment. Amara's connection with Dean is my least favorite part of the Darkness plot. "You told God to cool it?" Please, Sam, you once threatened God with gun violence. I love the crazy exposition ending in: "It's locked! Sometimes we keep monsters in the back." Did Dean just say he thinks Santa's real?I like that Sean just seems offended by the lack of presentation on the margarita. I like the ending for Metatron. I like that they're using some of the interior cameras from "Baby." I get a kick out of deus ex machina on this show. 

[Hanahope]

Glad to be rid of Metatron, no I'm not buying his redemption arc.  Some things can't be redeemed.

Not a bad bit between Dean and Guck (lol at that name), yeah, sounded ok, but there's holes in there.  Like his blamming Sam for "letting Lucifer out of the cage."

Good to see that Kevin got to go to heaven finally.

Lol at Donatello and of course Dean would think it was a ninja turtle.

[The Companion]

On 5/11/2016 at 9:20 PM, CocoaGoddess said:

I

All in all, good episode. I love to hate Metatron and I can't harbor a grudge against a character who risked himself for the team, so I hope he comes back at some point. Especially since he loathed being a human, it seems like a fitting punishment. 

I am honestly glad to see him gone if he is. It was a solid redemption arc and sacrifice. 

On 5/11/2016 at 10:01 PM, catrox14 said:

 

Hi Kevin. Bye Kevin( love you Kevin)...oh hi old white dude replacing Kevin in just about the same scene that kevin had when he was freaking out in the back of the boys car...just sayin'.

. . .

Really could someone have fucking asked about Cas in a meaningful way?

Yup and yup again. Sigh 

On 5/12/2016 at 2:43 AM, ZennyKenny said:

 

Ok, I'm confused about Kevin. Has he been "in the veil" this whole time? Because I thought that ghosts eventually went mad and turned into vengeful spirits.

I gotta be honest though. I don't find Amara scary. Like, at all. I don't know if it's just the actress or the writing, but she's no Lilith. And I hate how generic and flat her and Dean's interaction is. Every time they meet, their dialogue just re-treads the same ground over and over again. Yes, we get it; Amara wants Dean to be one with her. Why were they acting like this was some big revelation at the end of the episode? They've been drilling it into our heads since the first episode.

Yeah, that rubbed me the wrong way, too.

I am horrified that he was still in the veil. Does this mean there is still a backlog of ghosts?

Agreed on Amara. She is just not compelling TV. 

On 5/12/2016 at 12:26 PM, catrox14 said:

This killed me. You know if this were any other show this would be submitted for an Emmy. For this scene alone. But they won't. Jensen's voice and face when he says "wars in your name" OH NOPE. That killed me. I really felt Dean's disgust and disappointment with Chuck more than his anger. I don't know how Jensen does it. But I can FEEL what Dean feels in these kinds of moments. But all the awards please.  

It was so good. I loved this scene.

On 5/13/2016 at 1:16 PM, Myrelle said:

Dean's very matter of fact statement of "Sometimes we have to keep monsters back there..." made me lose it.

So freaking hilarious. 

On 5/13/2016 at 1:23 PM, catrox14 said:

 

I think I would have enjoyed the introduction of this new prophet far more if they hadn't just shown us Kevin. I was fine with the idea of Kevin in the veil living with Mama Tran and I didn't think he was functional prophet once he was dead anyway. So why bother? It just made me think WTF, Chuck. Just resurrect Kevin unless Kevin was all "DUDE I refuse to be your prophet again but can I just chill here with my moms?" Like did someone tell Mama Tran that her son is in heaven? Honestly that is a scene we deserved to have. What if Mama Tran calls up Sam and Dean and is like "GUYS??? I haven't heard from Kevin in like weeks. WHAT DID YOU DO?" I'd be cool with that LOL

It's always gonna rankle me.

I am really bummed about Kevin. I enjoyed the new prophet and appreciated the humor, but wasting Kevin is so disappointing.

 

Overall not the caliber of the last episode, but I still enjoyed this one. Except for Amara who is as compelling as watching paint dry while also gross. 

I watched this one back to back because I had to see the guys' reactions and they didn't disappoint. 

 

[Res]

3 hours ago, The Companion said:

 

Agreed on Amara. She is just not compelling TV. 

Except for Amara who is as compelling as watching paint dry while also gross. 

I watched this one back to back because I had to see the guys' reactions and they didn't disappoint. 

 

I liked Amara and the mystery of her, in theory, and it was much, much more compelling than what it could be 

Spoiler

Like what we have now with Jack.

 

[Smad]

9 hours ago, Res said:

I liked Amara and the mystery of her, in theory, and it was much, much more compelling than what it could be

IMO Amara could have been more compelling but that was never going to happen. First of all the showrunner who had started the Season left half way through and it shows. Second, this show just doesn't have the budget to put primordial beings into actual action. They can't even do archangels. Due to the changes midway through the Season, the people in charge clearly had no idea how to finish the myth-arc. On top of that the original plan was to kill God off and when the CW said no, they had to hastily rework the end of the Season. It was pure luck that Robbie wrote such a fantastic episode with 11x20.

It also didn't help that the show decided to humanize all these supernatural beings (Crowley, Lucifer, demonic and heavenly office workers) before we even got to S11. There were no more Yellow Eyes, Lilith, OriginalRecipe!Angels (Zachariah, Uriel, original!Cas) so there was no way they were going back to something like that with Amara. Amara can end the world with a snap, instead she kills only a few people here and there for the entire Season until the previous episode when she sends deadly smoke that kills a few thousand.

There should have been escalating destruction over the course of the Season because Amara's goal was a confrontation with God. She foolishly believed God cared about his creations so she started small (like the church massacre). Instead of her just sending a 'back off' ripple through Heaven, she should have destroyed it (because that's only logical). But since the showrunners weren't done with Heaven and needed it for the future, all we got was her shaking it up a little.

IMO the reason why they went back to Amara's connection with Dean over and over again to the point it became redundant and boring, was their clumsy way of avoiding what should actually be happening. Amara smashing up the planet on a larger scale the further we get into the Season. Then it would make sense that Metatron urged God to get involved (like lets say Amara had destroyed an entire continent) and that God was hiding. Instead she did less damage than Michael/Lucifer/Angels etc. even before they were about to have their super fight. Remember the tv reports of natural disasters all over the world getting worse the closer we got to the fight or Death about to wipe out Chicago before Dean came to him. Destruction was happening on a planetary scale.

Sadly there was no more talent left behind the scenes (aside from Robbie maybe) and supernatural beings had become a joke by this point.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Smad

[DeeDee79]

14 hours ago, Smad said:

Sadly there was no more talent left behind the scenes (aside from Robbie maybe) and supernatural beings had become a joke by this point.

Spoiler

And things have only gotten worse since season 11. Jack is probably the worst supernatural being to be created on this show IMO.