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Spoilers, New Topics & Co
Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

S02.E08: Houston, We Have A Problem

Tara Ariano

By Tara Ariano
in I Am Cait [V]

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maraleia

maraleia

I have more thoughts about this episode but wanted to say that Ella is a fantastic young woman and if Kylie and Kendall had any sense they would spend time with her because she is the real deal. Maybe Kylie and Kendall would be less superficial if they hung around regular young people and not the young Calabasas' set.

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kitten59

kitten59

I must say that I've watched this show since the first season without knowing anything about Cait, other than the fact that she was a celebrated Olympian...and part of the Kartrashians, which I've never watched. Honestly, I find her very likable. She is far from perfect, but who the hell isn't? When you are a public figure, you will NEVER please anyone. She is who she is, but I feel as if I am witnessing her evolution, and I think it's genuine. This show has been such a bright spot amongst all the dreck (some of which I admittedly watch). I hope there's another season!

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Madding crowd

Madding crowd

I think the show is meant to be educational, as well as a vehicle for Cait, but to me much of it is so very awkward. Personally, I think confrontations between family members should be done off camera. Knowing a camera is filming every word you say makes the whole conversation less genuine. And I don't care for Caitlyn all that much, but it must be exhausting to have every word you say be carefully examined to find something wrong with it. Not saying Caitlyn isn't wrong, but watching six people stare and her and measure every word she says is just uncomfortable.

 

I wish the ladies would quit trying to push Candis and Caitlyn together. I assume Candis is around 40 and Caitlyn is 65. Why would Candis want someone who is 25 years older? Then there is the little thing that Candis is attracted to men not women. 

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HumblePi

HumblePi

(edited)

I sure wish the LGBTQQ community could develop an acronym that would be more representative rather than just adding letters onto the existing initialism. People that aren't aware look at these letters and think 'what the heck is that?'. I wish someone would come up with an easier acronym like 'NSG', meaning non-specified gender.

 

As Caitlyn has said, she's never really seen the hatred out there, the others have. It's fortunate for her that she may never see that hatred firsthand. She was hung up on when she was on the phone trying to get an appointment with the minister in Houston and it was clear from the expression on her face when that happened that she was shocked to the core that someone would be so rude as to hang up on Caitlyn Jenner. Again, her life of privilege has led her to believe that she will be treated differently. She will never know what it was like for the others who have been in this personal struggle for decades without having the shield of fame to hide behind.

Edited by HumblePi
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ClareWalks

ClareWalks

I am amazed by how likeable Cait was in this episode. Her genuine horror that she said something terrible about "men in dresses" was refreshing compared to the bullheadedness of...every other episode of this show. Also, God help me, I laughed when she kissed Candis then said "that's the most action I've gotten in 2 1/2 years!"

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iwasish

iwasish

I sure wish the LGBTQQ community could develop an acronym that would be more representative rather than just adding letters onto the existing initialism. People that aren't aware look at these letters and think 'what the heck is that?'. I wish someone would come up with an easier acronym like 'NSG', meaning non-specified gender.

 

As Caitlyn has said, she's never really seen the hatred out there, the others have. It's fortunate for her that she may never see that hatred firsthand. She was hung up on when she was on the phone trying to get an appointment with the minister in Houston and it was clear from the expression on her face when that happened that she was shocked to the core that someone would be so rude as to hang up on Caitlyn Jenner. Again, her life of privilege has led her to believe that she will be treated differently. She will never know what it was like for the others who have been in this personal struggle for decades without having the shield of fame to hide behind.

I just thought it was ridiculous  that Caitlyn really thought just the act of speaking to the minister over the phone was going to make a difference. Her ego is that huge? We never saw what reaction they received from the congregation when they arrived, nor what  Caitlyn heard from the minister in response to her chastising him, so for all we know it could have been a whole lot of nothing..    And the whole bit of traipsing around using bathrooms and leaving notes behind is childish. They had freaking cameras following them around and had to have had permission to film. 

In the end though, just from discussions with friends and co workers, I don't see that she has really made any long lasting change for good in the way society views the transgender community. Most people just see her as an extension of the Kardashian klan,  famewhores one and all.

Let's see what Caitlyn is doing in 18 months, 3 yrs, 5 years  down the road. Will she stay the course of fighting for her community or will she be hiding up in the Malibu hills, with her designer duds and glam squad? Time will tell.

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bichonblitz

bichonblitz

Let's see what Caitlyn is doing in 18 months, 3 yrs, 5 years  down the road. Will she stay the course of fighting for her community or will she be hiding up in the Malibu hills, with her designer duds and glam squad? Time will tell.

I do believe she will be hiding up in the hills. I also never thought she really wanted to be a spokesperson fighting for her community. I think she's totally uncomfortable doing that and her show has taken a more serious turn regarding trans issues and rights than she ever intend for it to take. She wanted the superficial girlie stuff, the awards and the paparazzi taking pictures of her going to fashion shows and parties all glammed up, and to be accepted as Caitlyn by everyone that she knows and loves without question.  That's the shallow extent of her in my opinion. 

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GaT

GaT

I do believe she will be hiding up in the hills. I also never thought she really wanted to be a spokesperson fighting for her community. I think she's totally uncomfortable doing that and her show has taken a more serious turn regarding trans issues and rights than she ever intend for it to take. She wanted the superficial girlie stuff, the awards and the paparazzi taking pictures of her going to fashion shows and parties all glammed up, and to be accepted as Caitlyn by everyone that she knows and loves without question.  That's the shallow extent of her in my opinion. 

It may be shallow, (except for wanting to be loved & accepted which I think is normal)  but I don't really understand why people think she shouldn't be allowed to do this. Yes, she's a very visible person, but that doesn't mean she has to be a spokesperson for the entire community.  I personally think she totally clueless, but I don't think she's under any obligation to do anything other than live her life the way she wants to & if it's based on being shallow, it's her prerogative.

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iwasish

iwasish

(edited)

It may be shallow, (except for wanting to be loved & accepted which I think is normal)  but I don't really understand why people think she shouldn't be allowed to do this. Yes, she's a very visible person, but that doesn't mean she has to be a spokesperson for the entire community.  I personally think she totally clueless, but I don't think she's under any obligation to do anything other than live her life the way she wants to & if it's based on being shallow, it's her prerogative.

I didn't and don't expect her to be a spokesperson/role model. But she took it upon herself to do so. She banded together with a group of transgender women who are very much involved in the community and activism for transgender rights and stepped right up to the front and center of it. She didn't observe and learn from the  sidelines, she was running the show. It was her RV, her money (or her production companies money) her itinerary, her "girls". Maybe she thought she was going to show them all how its done. The look on her face when the church person hung up on her. HER! HER! CAITLYN JENNER!!!  was priceless. I doubt that has happened to her in decades. We never saw and I don't know if anyone has given us a run down of what happened inside the church when she supposedly confronted the minister, but I doubt anything will change any time soon there.. So she ends her season on a high note, high fives all around, she can retreat to Malibu slapping herself on the back and settling into the life she's dreamed about of designer duds and glam squads and lazy days golfing and laying round the pool, and her "girls' will continue the good fight.

Edited by iwasish
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millennium

millennium

(edited)

 Yes, she's a very visible person, but that doesn't mean she has to be a spokesperson for the entire community.  I personally think she totally clueless, but I don't think she's under any obligation to do anything other than live her life the way she wants to & if it's based on being shallow, it's her prerogative.

 

All of her public actions from the Diane Sawyer interview forward, including announcing "We are going to change the world," her cozy association with GLAAD, and her strongarm tactics to be handed the ESPN Arthur Ashe "courage" award, seem to have been part of a plan to get herself appointed the de facto leader of the transgender community (though coward that she is, she routinely falls back on "I only speak for myself" whenever she puts her size 13 foot in her mouth).  

 

If she had made her changes and then returned to private life -- as the Wachowski sisters have, for example -- I doubt anyone would have a cross word to say about her. 

 

It is my belief that Jenner sought to become a "transgender leader" for no other reasons than to give some weight to her otherwise vapid show and as a convenient publicity draw.   I don't think she cares about transgender people -- or any people, for that matter -- beyond their ability to facilitate her own needs. 

 

A phone call.   Yeah, that's really putting it all on the line for the cause, Jenner.

 

P.S. A new book about the Kardashians is coming out that attributes an even more cynical reason for Jenner's great public transition: it was a ploy to evade charges in the death of Kim Howe. 

Edited by millennium
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maraleia

maraleia

All of her public actions from the Diane Sawyer interview forward, including announcing "We are going to change the world," her cozy association with GLAAD, and her strongarm tactics to be handed the ESPN Arthur Ashe "courage" award, seem to have been part of a plan to get herself appointed the de facto leader of the transgender community (though coward that she is, she routinely falls back on "I only speak for myself" whenever she puts her size 13 foot in her mouth).  

 

If she had made her changes and then returned to private life -- as the Wachowski sisters have, for example -- I doubt anyone would have a cross word to say about her. 

 

It is my belief that Jenner sought to become a "transgender leader" for no other reasons than to give some weight to her otherwise vapid show and as a convenient publicity draw.   I don't think she cares about transgender people -- or any people, for that matter -- beyond their ability to facilitate her own needs. 

 

A phone call.   Yeah, that's really putting it all on the line for the cause, Jenner.

 

P.S. A new book about the Kardashians is coming out that attributes an even more cynical reason for Jenner's great public transition: it was a ploy to evade charges in the death of Kim Howe. 

Where is the evidence that she strong armed ESPN for the Arthur Ashe award?

Also, CA law states that in the case of an accident like the one Caitlyn was involved in no one would be charged so to say that she transitioned to get out of being charged by the cops isn't accurate.

You have issues with Caitlyn but we shouldn't assume things about someone until we get proof.

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millennium

millennium

(edited)

Where is the evidence that she strong armed ESPN for the Arthur Ashe award?

Also, CA law states that in the case of an accident like the one Caitlyn was involved in no one would be charged so to say that she transitioned to get out of being charged by the cops isn't accurate.

You have issues with Caitlyn but we shouldn't assume things about someone until we get proof.

 

It's all here in this forum and in the Caitlyn Jenner thread of the Keeping Up with the Kardashians forum, in past posts, if you have the time to look it up.   We discussed it quite a bit.   As I recall, Jenner and her handlers made the Ashe award a condition of doing the interview with Diane Sawyer, as both ESPN and ABC are owned by Disney.   When ABC began to balk, Jenner dangled the prospect of pulling out of the Sawyer interview.    Jenner tried to pooh-pooh the news when it came out, and perhaps because the American media was deathly afraid of fallout from the political correctness police, the story didn't get the traction it deserved.    Back then, it was career-endangering to say Jenner was anything but "brave" and "beautiful."

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3163299/Caitlyn-Jenner-s-reps-demanded-ESPYs-award-exchange-PR-plugs-Diane-Sawyer-interview.html

 

As for the business of trying to avoid charges in the death of Kim Howe, that's not me making those allegations (although I find them plausible), it's the author of the book.   Take it up with him.   I would only point out that in the weeks immediately following the collision, Jenner had no way of knowing that she wouldn't be charged.   All anyone knew for sure was that a woman was killed.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3532549/Bruce-Jenner-came-transgender-avoid-manslaughter-charges-killing-Kim-Howe-Malibu-traffic-accident-new-book-alleges.html

Edited by millennium
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maraleia

maraleia

(edited)

 

It's all here in this forum and in the Caitlyn Jenner thread of the Keeping Up with the Kardashians forum, in past posts, if you have the time to look it up.   We discussed it quite a bit.   As I recall, Jenner and her handlers made the Ashe award a condition of doing the interview with Diane Sawyer, as both ESPN and ABC are owned by the same corporation.   When ABC began to balk, Jenner dangled the prospect of pulling out of the Sawyer interview.    Jenner tried to pooh-pooh the news when it came out, and because the American media was deathly afraid of fallout from the political correctness police, the story didn't get the traction it deserved.    Back then, it was career-endangering to say Jenner was anything but "brave" and "beautiful."

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3163299/Caitlyn-Jenner-s-reps-demanded-ESPYs-award-exchange-PR-plugs-Diane-Sawyer-interview.html

 

As for the business of trying to avoid charges in the death of Kim Howe, that's not me making those allegations (although I find them plausible), it's the author of the book.   Take it up with him:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3532549/Bruce-Jenner-came-transgender-avoid-manslaughter-charges-killing-Kim-Howe-Malibu-traffic-accident-new-book-alleges.html

If you say so but I don't trust the Daily Mail about anything especially after the way they stalked Lilly Wachowski and threatened to out her before she was ready to tell the world she is transgender.

Edited by maraleia
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millennium

millennium

I think it's a stretch. She was already making changes prior to the accident.

 

Sorry for not being clearer.   When I wrote "great public transition," I was referring to the publicity blitz and how it was foisted on the public all at once.   Reportedly the book claims the whole thing was thrown into high gear to create a distraction.

If you say so but I don't trust the Daily Mail about anything especially after the way they stalked Lilly Wachowski and threatened to out her before she was ready to tell the world she is transgender.

 

I have nothing to back this up but suspicion, but I think most major U.S. news outlets today are still afraid to report any story critical of Jenner for fear of backlash, based on the climate of intimidation that was created last year.

 

It may be why these stories cropped up across the pond rather than here.

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CousinAmy

CousinAmy

If I was new in town and looking for a house of worship, of course I would mention my gender status before I even asked for directions. Why didn't Jenny ask, "I'll be there at 11 a.m., but I know I'm going to need to pee when I get there, is that OK?" because that sounds so much less awkward. 

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iwasish

iwasish

8 hours ago, CousinAmy said:

If I was new in town and looking for a house of worship, of course I would mention my gender status before I even asked for directions. Why didn't Jenny ask, "I'll be there at 11 a.m., but I know I'm going to need to pee when I get there, is that OK?" because that sounds so much less awkward. 

Or announce that I was thinking of attending services with a group of transgender women and would we be welcome? Obviously it was all a setup for the camera. And isn't there like a networking among the LGBTQ community that would let them know which churches are accepting and which to avoid? I mean do you want go somewhere you aren't going to be welcomed or will be made to feel uncomfortable at best and asked to leave at worst? If I'm looking to worship, then a church/congregation with that mindset isn't one I'd want to worship with. 

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What In The

What In The

Wok, here are my thoughts about the Houston/Bathroom situation. Supposedly here it is now the law that if you identify as a woman you have every right to use that restroom freely. I'm afraid of people that would take advantage of that to satisfy their pedophile desires that are not really trans. Thus, I am against said law. Cait and her peeps may not think this way but...

Actually scratch that the law was supposedly repealed.

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millennium

millennium

(edited)
On 5/10/2016 at 3:00 PM, What In The said:

Wok, here are my thoughts about the Houston/Bathroom situation. Supposedly here it is now the law that if you identify as a woman you have every right to use that restroom freely. I'm afraid of people that would take advantage of that to satisfy their pedophile desires that are not really trans. Thus, I am against said law. Cait and her peeps may not think this way but...

Actually scratch that the law was supposedly repealed.

Newsflash: if pedophiles wanted to do that sort of thing now, there's nothing to stop them.   Can you cite a single instance of a man dressing as a woman to lurk inside the ladies' room and molest little girls?   As far as I know, it hasn't happened.

However, we can cite case after case of pedophiles dressing up as coaches, trusted family friends, priests and high-ranking Republicans.   Where are all the pitchforks and torches when it comes to stopping them?

The transgender bathroom law is an easy target.   It's also a convenient way for people to pretend that their protests aren't really about their disdain for transgender people but "for the children."

Edited by millennium
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jonesingjay

jonesingjay

I got a case of giggles watching the season finale. Specifically the dinner at the end of the episode. It confirmed for me that these ladies, probably don't spend time with Cait outside of filming the show. They were having these tearfully goodbyes, and all I could think was, 'It's not like you're never going to see each other again.' But, then the thought occurred to me, 'Probably not. If this show isn't going to be renewed. They probably are saying their goodbyes.' 

I hope the show comes back for another season. I think there's a lot of potential here. And, I'd probably enjoy it more if it became an ensemble sort of show. I'll miss you Chanda most of all. 

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