The Star Wars Saga

[Kel Varnsen]

50 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

How did they all know so fast?

Yea the whole galaxy celebrating right away doesn't really work for me. Since even with the Emperor and Vader and everyone on the Death Star dead there would still be a ton of imperial officials and loyal storm troopers who would be hanging on to power, and maybe trying to grab more.

[baldryanr]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

How did they all know so fast?

Obviously they sensed a great disturbance in the Force.

Plus all of the Imperials stationed on the various planets apparently packed up and left the instant they heard the news instead of trying to seize power or anything like that.

Edited September 19 by baldryanr

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 9/13/2024 at 5:17 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Don’t judge me, but when I was a little kid, I honestly thought he was called “Dark Vader.” It took me a long time to get it right as Darth Vader.

And this was before I even heard of Spaceballs.

So it went over your helmet?

[Fool to cry]

So to I remembered this quote from TESB director Irvin Kirshner from a 1990 magazine interview:

"But that story point was kept a secret. We didn’t even have that in the script. Nobody knew that, not even the actors. I had a page that I took when I was in California that was a substitute page for the scene when Luke is screaming at Vader and hanging on to that pole. Those words were put away in my book and when it came time to shoot, I explained it to Mark. But when he was saying, “No, no, I don’t believe it!” Darth Vader was saying totally different things than what you hear in the film. He wasn’t saying, “I am your father! We’ll rule the galaxy together!

He was saying, “You’re going to do what I say!” (Laughter) So he had totally different lines. Then, when we went to put it together, we put the real words in. But Mark knew because I told him ahead of time. I told him he was Vader’s son and he thought it was great. And he acted it magnificently! He was hanging there by a nylon cord over 40 feet of nothing with wind blowing at him. I had fans and smoke aimed right at him. It was really quite dangerous — I worried about it. And I think he was worried about it, too, and that’s what made it so effective.

When I went to the Command Performance in England of The Empire Strikes Back, in back of me was sitting David Prowse who was the body of Darth Vader.

When the scene came on where Vader says, “I am your father,” David hit me on the head! (Laughter) He leaned over and said, “Why didn’t you tell me! I would’ve acted it differently!” (Laughter) David wasn’t the voice of Darth Vader but he sure walked right! I tell you: body language is so important."

 I rewatched that scene and I noticed Vader moves his head down when he says "I". On the set Prowse said the fake line "No, Obi-Wan killed your father." Try saying it and your head goes down on "Wan". If he had really said "I" his head would have gone back!

Edited September 19 by Fool to cry

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

How did they all know so fast?

Good news travels fast.

[Anduin]

12 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

How did they all know so fast?

Joking aside, Star Wars has instantaneous interstellar communications. IIRC, it first pops up in TPM. Certainly in AOTC.

[Morrigan2575]

On 9/18/2024 at 12:50 PM, Fool to cry said:

My favorite is Luke reuniting with Biggs before the Death Star battle. I don't think you need the deleted Toschi Station scene to get that he's an old friend from Tattooine. 

 

That is a good one

[Fool to cry]

 

 

[Fool to cry]

And yet still better than the 1978 Star Wars Holiday Special!

 

[tv echo]

Is Disney Bad at Star Wars? An Analysis
By James Hibberd   October 3, 2024
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/star-wars-disney-analysis-ratings-box-office-1236011620/ 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

Is Disney Bad at Star Wars? An Analysis
By James Hibberd   October 3, 2024
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/star-wars-disney-analysis-ratings-box-office-1236011620/ 

It makes some good points and some bad ones. I don't think Disney ever really learns from it's mistakes. The sequels were rushed and it's clear they didn't really know what kind of story they wanted to tell. About the original big three? About the Skywalker family? The Jedi Order? Passing the Torch from Luke, Han and Leia to a new group? It was just a grab for money and the story didn't matter. Yes, Lucas changed things and ideas from A New Hope to Empire Stikes Back and Return of the Jedi. But those changes worked for the most part. Vader turning out to be Luke's father is still one of if the best twist ever and added so much more to the story. The change from the sequel trilogy from movie to movie didn't and they didn't make sense either. 

They have done some good TV series so many people loved the Mandelorian. But they messed it up season three and turn season four into a moie. Why? Andor was really good but they decide to make it only two seasons. Why would you do that when fans love the shows? 

They originally planned for Obi Wan to be a movie. That would have been a damn good movie. Instead they switched to a six episode show which means stretching out a story that really didn't need to be.

And now all they do is announce and cancel movies and TV shows. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I thought the Obi Wan series was good and should remain a one off. I think a movie would have been too rushed to have an offworld adventure *and* . If they want to do a movie *now*, I think it would work. 

While I understand the issues with Acolyte, I thought it was good enough to warrant a second season. I know it cost a lot, but I still don't quite get that a streaming service really needs to be strictly beholden to ratings. 

 

[tv echo]

Yesterday - EM talked about not just Obi-Wan Kenobi (they're exploring ideas for a S2) but also the Star Wars movies (Alec Guinness, Denis Lawson, Hayden Christensen)...

Ewan Mcgregor at LA Comic Con 2024!!!
Nico7 Films   posted Oct 6, 2024

Edited October 6 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Here's a better recording of that Ewan McGregor panel at L.A. Comic Con...

STAR WARS Ewan McGregor in CLONE WARS? – L.A Comic Con 2024
Fandom Spotlite   Oct 8, 2024

Quote

Star Wars and Obi-Wan Kenobi star Ewan McGregor gave a panel at L.A. Comic Con 2024 to talk about the role, his career, and what he would like to see for Kenobi in the future. And he tells a great story from Revenge of the Sith at the end of the panel.

[tv echo]

From SpaceCon San Antonio this weekend...

Star Wars Anakin Skywalker & Ahsoka Panel: Hayden Christensen & Rosario Dawson: SpaceCon San Antonio
The Legacy of Nerd   posted Oct 27, 2024

[tv echo]

From SpaceCon San Antonio this weekend...

Ahmed Best Talks Jar Jar Binks & The Voice of a Jedi in Star Wars Q&A
Tales From The Collection: Autographs & Fan Mail   posted Oct 28, 2024

 

[tv echo]

From SpaceCon San Antonio last weekend...

Star Wars Obi-Wan Kenobi Panel: Ewan McGregor at SpaceCon San Antonio
The Legacy of Nerd   posted Oct 28, 2024

[tv echo]

STAR WARS: George Lucas Had A Jaw-Dropping Twist Planned For Obi-Wan And Qui-Gon In THE PHANTOM MENACE
Josh Wilding   Nov 1, 2024
https://sffgazette.com/sci_fi/star-wars/star-wars-george-lucas-had-a-jaw-dropping-twist-planned-for-obi-wan-and-qui-gon-in-the-phantom-menace-a8468#gs.hians9 

Quote

Talking to StarWars.com about the 1999 movie, Star Wars concept and storyboard artist Iain McCaig revealed that Lucas once had a jaw-dropping twist in mind for Episode I.

"For a time, the older Jedi was named Obi-Wan and the younger Jedi was named Qui-Gon," McCaig explained. "It was very poignant that at the end, as Obi-Wan dies and Qui-Gon defeats Darth Maul and stays with his Master as he passes away, he not only takes on his Master’s quest, but he takes on his name. Qui-Gon becomes Obi-Wan."

"That’s why when you see Alec Guinness in ‘A New Hope,’ he puts his hood down and goes, ‘Obi-Wan? Now that’s a name I’ve not heard…'" the artist continued. "Because he’s not Obi-Wan, he’s Qui-Gon. And right at the end, George changed it."

Edited November 1 by tv echo

[BetterButter]

Star Wars Trilogy Deal: Lucasfilm Taps Simon Kinberg To Write & Produce

[Anduin]

3 hours ago, BetterButter said:

Star Wars Trilogy Deal: Lucasfilm Taps Simon Kinberg To Write & Produce

He's not the best, but I just want some action!

[Morrigan2575]

That does not fill me with hop, he managed to screw up Dark Phoenix TWICE! 🤦‍♀️

[Palimelon]

So he now has 3 chances to screw it up.

[tv echo]

Lucasfilm panel coming up later today...

D23 Brazil, November 8-10, 2024 (Sao Paolo, Brazil)
https://d23.com/brazil/
https://d23.com/details-revealed-for-d23-brazil-a-disney-experience/ 

Quote

Fans can expect a series of surprises and exclusive announcements during the event, including what’s new from Disney Experiences, previews of new releases from Disney Live Action, Pixar Animation Studios, Walt Disney Animation Studios, Marvel Studios, Lucasfilm, and 20th Century Studios, special guests and interactive experiences. D23 Brazil - A Disney Experience promises to provide a complete immersion into the worlds of Disney, creating unforgettable moments and bringing to Brazil the magic of Disney that connects fans around the world.

https://www.laughingplace.com/w/disney-entertainment/previewing-d23-brazil-a-disney-experience-2024/ 

Quote

Saturday, November 9th:
*  *  *
4:30 p.m. (2:30 p.m. ET/11:30 a.m. PT): Lucasfilm, 20th Century Studios and Marvel Studios

[tv echo]

Lucasfilm, 20th Century Studios, and Marvel Studios Share Trailers, Sneak Peeks, and More at D23 Brazil — A Disney Experience
November 9, 2024
https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/d23-brazil-day-two/ 

Quote

Lucasfilm

• Star Jude Law greeted fans in a pre-recorded message before introducing a special look at Skeleton Crew, a brand-new Star Wars series launching Tuesday, December 3, with the first two episodes on Disney+.
• Representing Season 2 of the critically acclaimed, Emmy® Award-nominated series Andor, droid B2 EMO rolled on stage to meet the D23 Brazil fans, who went wild. The Disney+ launch date — April 22, 2025 — was revealed, and the crowd got a special look at the series. The acclaimed thriller returns for its long-awaited conclusion. The 12 episodes of Season 2 carry the story of Cassian Andor and the emerging rebel alliance over the climactic four years that lead to the discovery of The Death Star and the events of Rogue One. Season 1 followed Cassian’s reluctant journey from cynical nobody to revolutionary volunteer. Andor Season 2 will see him transform from soldier to leader to hero on the way to his epic destiny. From the very first scene, Cassian’s story has activated an ever-widening ensemble of allies and enemies. Season 2 will see these relationships intensify as the horizon of galactic war draws near. Everyone will be tested and, as the stakes rise, the betrayals, sacrifices, and conflicting agendas will become profound.
• In a pre-recorded video, director and Disney Legend Jon Favreau and producer Dave Filoni introduced the audience to a special sneak peek of Lucasfilm’s The Mandalorian and Grogu, the upcoming Star Wars feature film that will open in theaters on May 22, 2026. Starring Pedro Pascal and Sigourney Weaver, directed by Favreau and produced by Kathleen Kennedy, Favreau, Filoni, and Ian Bryce, this exciting new adventure in the Mandalorian and Grogu’s journey is currently in production.

[Anduin]

Ten years since the first TFA teaser! That was so fun. The whole movie, if not so original, was pretty fun. And that's what I like, you know? Just something to enjoy.

 

[baldryanr]

I remember most fans were mostly happy with TFA, although there was some predictable bitching about Rey (Mary Sue!) and Finn (a black dude!) from the usual suspects.  Then, well, the rest of the decade happened....

[Fool to cry]

There was also the criticism that the plot rehashed A New Hope but fans were happy because it had the aesthetics they loved when they were kids.

 

Edited December 1 by Fool to cry

[Danny Franks]

2 hours ago, baldryanr said:

I remember most fans were mostly happy with TFA, although there was some predictable bitching about Rey (Mary Sue!) and Finn (a black dude!) from the usual suspects.  Then, well, the rest of the decade happened....

Unfortunately, the dregs of the fandom managed to find themselves in the ascendance when the sequels that followed TFA disappointed. Their very agenda-driven complaints have been adopted by lots of other fans too. I've seen far too many people saying Rey is a character without worth, who doesn't deserve another movie.

I still think she was a great character, with bags of potential, but Disney mangled her in the last movie by diminishing her so they could boost Kylo Ren as the secondary protagonist (and completely diminishing Finn and Poe in the process). 

I still think Rian Johnson set up a great status quo at the end of The Last Jedi - Rey as the figurehead of the Rebellion, Kylo Ren as the new leader of The First Order, embittered and enraged by her rejection of him.

But no, Disney had to listen to fans who wanted a white boy hero, and the 'shippers who see abuse as romance.

[andromeda331]

16 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Unfortunately, the dregs of the fandom managed to find themselves in the ascendance when the sequels that followed TFA disappointed. Their very agenda-driven complaints have been adopted by lots of other fans too. I've seen far too many people saying Rey is a character without worth, who doesn't deserve another movie.

I still think she was a great character, with bags of potential, but Disney mangled her in the last movie by diminishing her so they could boost Kylo Ren as the secondary protagonist (and completely diminishing Finn and Poe in the process). 

I still think Rian Johnson set up a great status quo at the end of The Last Jedi - Rey as the figurehead of the Rebellion, Kylo Ren as the new leader of The First Order, embittered and enraged by her rejection of him.

But no, Disney had to listen to fans who wanted a white boy hero, and the 'shippers who see abuse as romance.

i agree. Rey had so much potential and I really loved the ending of The Last Jedi with Kylo taking over the First Order and Rey finally rejecting him. It was a really great set up. And it made sense. Kylo didn't want to quit the dark side he wanted Rey to chose it and really thought she would. Rey really thought he'd chose the light side after killing Snoke and them fighting together to defeat his bodyguards.But he didn't. Plus seeing young force user.  The set up for the third movie was so good. And they squandered all of it for some weird Palpatine's back, Rey's his granddaughter (Palpatine having a kid felt so unPalpatine like, I never bought that not even in the old comic books) and Kylo suddenly turning good. It was all crap and made no sense. And they killed off Han, Luke and Leia, which I hated. They killed them all of for this? 

[tv echo]

Daisy Ridley on exciting Star Wars future, her marriage, and crying to manage stress
By:Adam Bloodworth   Dec 1, 2024
https://www.cityam.com/daisy-ridley-on-star-wars-and-fame-it-must-be-amazing-to-feel-like-a-star/ 

Quote

Ridley on Star Wars Rey biopic: I don’t know how involved I’ll be as a producer, but it’s happening, it’s all good!
*  *  *
Bateman was filming in Los Angeles during the production of Magpie but they’d schedule calls at the end of the day when the time-zones lined up, and their smushy feelings for one another made the stressful (there’s that word again) parts feel easier. “No one wants to hear the ins and outs of a fifteen minute meeting, but when it’s your partner, they will listen!” When they’re done with meetings they “fill the stress with terrible TV, so when the stress is too much you switch on something hideous that you know you shouldn’t be watching. It’s helpful to do something that is totally away from the thing.”

She produced Magpie alongside three other projects; will she be involved behind the camera on Star Wars? “All of those conversations are positive and happening. Certainly in the producorial way I don’t know that I will be that involved, but what has been amazing was creatively Kathy [Kennedy, Star Wars producer] told me the idea for the story which is great and I’ve been over all of the developments, so I feel more consciously involved [than before] but I remember various things either JJ [Abrams] or Ryan [Johnson] told me, so I was always really made to feel involved. But on this one I’m aware of the route development. It’s also really nice to know that we have the time to do it right, and of course I’m really excited to film and I’m really excited to share developments with the world. It’s all good, it really is!”

Edited December 3 by tv echo

[Fool to cry]

On 12/2/2024 at 4:14 AM, andromeda331 said:

i agree. Rey had so much potential and I really loved the ending of The Last Jedi with Kylo taking over the First Order and Rey finally rejecting him. It was a really great set up. And it made sense. Kylo didn't want to quit the dark side he wanted Rey to chose it and really thought she would. Rey really thought he'd chose the light side after killing Snoke and them fighting together to defeat his bodyguards.But he didn't. Plus seeing young force user.  The set up for the third movie was so good. And they squandered all of it for some weird Palpatine's back, Rey's his granddaughter (Palpatine having a kid felt so unPalpatine like, I never bought that not even in the old comic books) and Kylo suddenly turning good. It was all crap and made no sense. And they killed off Han, Luke and Leia, which I hated. They killed them all of for this? 

My opinion  has always been Kylo rejecting to go with Rey didn't mean he was beyond redemption it just meant that she wasn't the person to bring it about. Why would she be? 

 

[andromeda331]

On 12/3/2024 at 11:35 AM, Fool to cry said:

My opinion  has always been Kylo rejecting to go with Rey didn't mean he was beyond redemption it just meant that she wasn't the person to bring it about. Why would she be? 

 

I really wanted it to be Leia. Luke saved their dad and her saving Kylo would have been perfect.

[Anduin]

In surprising news, the Mandalorian and Grogu movie will also feature Jabba's son. We already met said son in the TCW movie. His name is Rotta. He didn't talk there, but this movie is set around 30 years later. He will be voiced by Jeremy Allen White, best known for that food show The Bear.

Some people are certainly groaning over this news, but I'm keeping an open mind. Anyone can be brought back and made awesome, even if their previous appearance wasn't great.

Edited December 10 by Anduin

[Fool to cry]

4 hours ago, Anduin said:

In surprising news, the Mandalorian and Grogu movie will also feature Jabba's son. We already met said son in the TCW movie. His name is Rotta. He didn't talk there, but this movie is set around 30 years later. He will be voiced by Jeremy Allen White, best known for that food show The Bear.

Some people are certainly groaning over this news, but I'm keeping an open mind. Anyone can be brought back and made awesome, even if their previous appearance wasn't great.

Do people think he's like Grogu slowly aging and still be a baby? I expect he'll be an adult like Jabba in the old movies.

[Anduin]

3 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

Do people think he's like Grogu slowly aging and still be a baby? I expect he'll be an adult like Jabba in the old movies.

Sometimes I swear fandom is getting dumber over time. Yes, I agree.

[Anduin]

It was around this time that the sequel trilogy and Rogue One were released in their respective years. Of those, Rogue One may be the only one that people agree about. TFA: fun but retread: TLJ too different. TROS: trying to do two things at once, failing at both. But you know, I like all of them for different reasons. You're allowed to.

[Danny Franks]

The definitive version of the prequel trilogy concluded with Mustafar Takes Los Angeles, at Dynasty Typerwriter:

The best Obi-Wan and Anakin performances you'll ever see, across the trilogy, with a host of great names around them.

[andromeda331]

16 hours ago, Anduin said:

It was around this time that the sequel trilogy and Rogue One were released in their respective years. Of those, Rogue One may be the only one that people agree about. TFA: fun but retread: TLJ too different. TROS: trying to do two things at once, failing at both. But you know, I like all of them for different reasons. You're allowed to.

Yes you are.

[Morrigan2575]

On 12/15/2024 at 8:09 AM, Anduin said:

It was around this time that the sequel trilogy and Rogue One were released in their respective years. Of those, Rogue One may be the only one that people agree about. TFA: fun but retread: TLJ too different. TROS: trying to do two things at once, failing at both. But you know, I like all of them for different reasons. You're allowed to.

Rouge One was great but, I still have no desire to rewatch it. The Force Awakens was good but, relied mostly on member berries plus I hated that they broke up Han/Lei and that Han died (I know it's what Harrison Ford wanted but, it still sucked). The Last Jedi sucked, IMO none of it made sense when you think about the plot, it just relies on characters being stupid to make the plot move forward.  It destroyed Luke's character, killed Akbar as an after thought and seemed to go out of it's way to shit on the longtime fans. I know not every long-term fan feels that way but, this one does. Rise of Skywalker was hampered by trying to fix the shit that was TLJ and ending the series.  

I know the EU books went off the rails long after I stopped reading and I never liked Mara Jade but at this point just give Feloni the Zahn Trilogy and we can have animated Sequels that are good and the way the sequel story should have been, IMO.

[Fool to cry]

I guess one of the reasons Luke in TLJ didn't bother me was thinking about it, 30 years being at the top is unrealistic to me. However, 24 years on top and then a 6 year slump? That I can believe! 

[Anduin]

I find Luke entirely believable in TLJ. He had a moment of blindness as to his actions. When he screwed up, he ran away to sulk and told himself he was doing the right thing. It took multiple attempts to make him see the right thing to do, and by then there was only one thing he could do. I can think of times in my life where I've done similar.

[baldryanr]

1 hour ago, Fool to cry said:

I guess one of the reasons Luke in TLJ didn't bother me was thinking about it, 30 years being at the top is unrealistic to me. However, 24 years on top and then a 6 year slump? That I can believe! 

Turning your original heroes into mopey failures is guaranteed to piss people off unless it's done perfectly.  Imagine a Harry Potter sequel where one of Harry/Ginny or Ron/Hermione's kids becomes the new Voldemort while the original trio divorces and/or goes into hiding, or a LOTR followup where King Aragorn ends up creating a corrupt Gondor (and yes, I know Tolkien explicitly said he was an awesome ruler).  Think that would be well received because hey, it's realistic?

[Cobalt Stargazer]

4 hours ago, Anduin said:

I find Luke entirely believable in TLJ. He had a moment of blindness as to his actions. When he screwed up, he ran away to sulk and told himself he was doing the right thing.

The Skywalker Whining Gene, in other words.

Though there is always the argument that it would have ended that way without Luke's mistake. No one who faults him for his actions with Kylo ever takes the next obvious step, what Kylo does in response. "Why would Luke ever think Kylo would become evil? He <i>saved</i> his father! Why would he jump to.....oh. Well. Never mind, then." Replace Luke's other students with the younglings, and it's Anakin all over again.

[Spartan Girl]

55 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

The Skywalker Whining Gene, in other words.

Though there is always the argument that it would have ended that way without Luke's mistake. No one who faults him for his actions with Kylo ever takes the next obvious step, what Kylo does in response. "Why would Luke ever think Kylo would become evil? He <i>saved</i> his father! Why would he jump to.....oh. Well. Never mind, then." Replace Luke's other students with the younglings, and it's Anakin all over again.

SERIOUSLY.

If he just ran away after Luke nearly killed him, I’d be more inclined to sympathy. Instead he killed/kidnapped Luke’s other students then proceeded to join the First Order, which pretty much validated Luke’s worst fears. Golly gee, Kylo, nobody FORCED you to be a dick and ruin your family’s lives…

[DoctorAtomic]

I think there's the factor that although everyone knew Luke was kind of old, everyone wanted to see him be a BAMF Jedi, even for a little bit. 

[Morrigan2575]

3 hours ago, Anduin said:

I find Luke entirely believable in TLJ. He had a moment of blindness as to his actions. When he screwed up, he ran away to sulk and told himself he was doing the right thing. It took multiple attempts to make him see the right thing to do, and by then there was only one thing he could do. I can think of times in my life where I've done similar.

I don't know if i find Luke trying to assainate his sleeping nephew at all realistic,  especially an older/wiser Luke who would most likely have become less rash and emotional as he grew in The Force.

It's not impossible but, the books kind of had this play out, Han/Leia's kid Jacen went Dark Side, Killed Mara Jade (Luke's Wife) and Janina had to kill her twin to save the universe.  Hell, Luke didn't even want to kill Jacen he kept trying to redeem him and, only confronted him when all other options were exhausted.

I know that's Legends and doesn't count but, no  one will ever convnce me that this was good writing. Especially since it was never intened to explore Luke's character and just a pure assassination (IMO) to further new characters that weren't that great (Kylo/Rey).

 

[Anduin]

27 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't know if i find Luke trying to assainate his sleeping nephew at all realistic,  especially an older/wiser Luke who would most likely have become less rash and emotional as he grew in The Force

 

Luke thinks he spots another Palpatine in the making. Not given to deep thinking, decides to end it in one clean strike. It goes badly, perhaps even reinforcing Ben's turn to the dark side. Only then does Luke realise that he just created the problem he tried to solve. Again not given to deep thinking, figures that instead of trying to solve it again, he runs away and tells himself he's doing right by keeping the original temple and old books safe.

Been a while since I last watched, but I seem to remember Ren and Snoke being more on the kill Luke train rather than any interest in old relics. He could have been hiding any old place and they'd still be after him. There's probably more to the story that I'm forgetting. But I'll rewatch midyear with the orchestra, and probably have more thoughts then. :)

All that said, TLJ isn't even my favourite of the ST. It's the eternally fun TFA, even if it a bit of a retread.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't know if i find Luke trying to assainate his sleeping nephew at all realistic,  especially an older/wiser Luke who would most likely have become less rash and emotional as he grew in The Force.

It's not impossible but, the books kind of had this play out, Han/Leia's kid Jacen went Dark Side, Killed Mara Jade (Luke's Wife) and Janina had to kill her twin to save the universe.  Hell, Luke didn't even want to kill Jacen he kept trying to redeem him and, only confronted him when all other options were exhausted.

I know that's Legends and doesn't count but, no  one will ever convnce me that this was good writing. Especially since it was never intened to explore Luke's character and just a pure assassination (IMO) to further new characters that weren't that great (Kylo/Rey).

 

This is what's ironic for me. I liked the idea of Jacen going evil and everything he did but hated the execution. There were so mnay problems with the plot, everyone had to be Stormtrooper levels of stupidity for any of it to work and so much more. I could go on forever about it.

When Disney bought Star Wars and that all became Legends. I had hoped it meant we would get something better then we got in the books. Han and Leia's son going evil either having to face off against his twin sister (like in the books) or Luke's son. As George Lucas once mentioned the idea of two cousins. While there was a lot of potential in the sequel the execution went about as well as the one in the books. I'm really not sure which one is better and which one is worse. It's really a draw.

[Fool to cry]

6 hours ago, baldryanr said:

Turning your original heroes into mopey failures is guaranteed to piss people off unless it's done perfectly.  Imagine a Harry Potter sequel where one of Harry/Ginny or Ron/Hermione's kids becomes the new Voldemort while the original trio divorces and/or goes into hiding, or a LOTR followup where King Aragorn ends up creating a corrupt Gondor (and yes, I know Tolkien explicitly said he was an awesome ruler).  Think that would be well received because hey, it's realistic?

I understand fans getting upset by that but they also wanted new stories after the characters had a happy ending. There's a theme in the Original and Prequel Trilogies that the present generation has to make up the mistakes made by the previous one. As I posted they had two and a half decades where Luke, Han and Leia were not failures and everything was fine before it all went to hell.

The criticism that TLJ made Rey look good at Luke's expense is funny because she is shown finally failing at something and she tried to do what Luke did with Vader and turn someone from the Dark Side! Fans say I can't believe Luke would try to kill his nephew" Well I can't believe Luke would see a vision of his loved ones being killed and not have an immediate violent reaction. Sees his aunt and uncle's charred remains he has a vengeful look.  Sees Ben struck down, starts blasting. Vader threatens Leia, Luke nearly kills him.

 

[baldryanr]

5 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

Well I can't believe Luke would see a vision of his loved ones being killed and not have an immediate violent reaction. Sees his aunt and uncle's charred remains he has a vengeful look.  Sees Ben struck down, starts blasting. Vader threatens Leia, Luke nearly kills him.

Young Luke, sure.  Experienced Jedi Master Luke wouldn't react with serene detachment, but time to go murder my nephew is quite the leap.  Maybe call Leia and get her to weigh in before leaping to the lightsaber option?