S07.E16: Days Of Future Past

[formerlyfreedom]

In an attempt to make things right with his brother, Damon offers to have Stefan’s scar magically transferred to him, only to discover that doing so may come with some unexpected consequences. With time running out and Rayna closing in on Stefan, Valerie desperately attempts to reason with Damon before it’s too late. Elsewhere, after being framed for breaking Rayna out of The Armory, Enzo attempts to clear his name, but not before a violent run-in with Nora forces him to make an upsetting discovery.

 

 

[raytch]

Hey,they can't use X Men as an episode title.

J'accuse!

[PinkRibbons]

Episode Clip!

 

[grandemocha]

Can Damon just stake himself? That would be ever so nice. Or hell, stake Stefan and put him out of his misery.

[PinkRibbons]

I feel bad for Rayna. That girl really needs some downtime and a friend. I love the idea of her and Stefan being friends.

 

So I'm assuming Stefan's soul (along with a bunch of others) is just out there all afloaty and willy-nilly? And that if he wakes up it could be in someone else's body...

 

SO very glad Nora and Mary Louise are dead, and though I didn't like them, I'll applaud them going out with true style.

[sunshineboi88]

Damn there are a lot of lesbians being killed off this tv season! 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I can't say I'm sorry to see that Nora and Mary Louise are gone (and props to them for going out Thelma and Louise style AND taking out the stupid sword, even if that leaves Damon in a lurch). The only heretic I liked was Oscar so I'm glad we've been losing the rest of the them over the course of this season. Valerie can go next!

 

This episode felt like a lot of filler, especially considering that it was the first one after a brief hiatus. I wasn't at all surprised that Valerie could have done that transfer spell at any time but that she kept that information to herself so that she could have an international vacation with Stefan. She was just biding her time, waiting for him to stop missing Caroline so that he would be ready to start dating her again. Ugh.

 

I am so tired of this dumb hellstone and the phoenix sword and the Armory.

[miss-vanilla]

So let me get this straight. Damon has the intelligence to work out that Valerie was performing the long con in order to net Stefan, but he hadn't worked out that by transferring the mark to himself he would potentially not live until Elena wakes due to Rayna's natural life span? does not make sense since he knows just how killable she is.

 

Stefan does something to Penny and now she is dead (did he kill her?). In revenge, Matt releases Rayna Cruz, who goes after Stefan, who then wakes up big brother from his slumber for his help, and Damon is blamed for the ensuing carnage- figures.

 

ML and Nora have been surplus, screen time eating, waste of spaces, and I'm glad they are gone off my screen. 

The Stefan/Valerie roadtrip was meh, don't care, and the notion that Rayna could see everything Stefan was doing during that time due to a "mystical connection" was just hilarious- but conveniently she doesn't know what he did to Penny/Matt. (I'll wager it was a misunderstanding and Stefan is not to blame in the end because he was protecting Damon or something)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

So what happens when there are two vampires with her mark running around? Does she get to change her mental tv stations whenever she feels like it?

 

I'm also not clear on how her multiple lives work. When Bonnie found her, she was old so she was nearing the end of one of her mortal lives. When she came back to life, each time she was the same age as when she was turned into the Slayer in 1857. So if Damon hadn't killed her a couple times in the woods, then she would have lived another 100-200 years (assuming no one else killed her)?

Edited April 1, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[miss-vanilla]

I think Rayna had 8 normal human life spans. 

 

By the time we meet her she is old, and is presumably nearing the end of her second life span, then Enzo kills her.

 

She died when klaus killed her, and again when the strix killed her on TO. Damon killed her at least 3 times and the fourth time was her last and he needed to resuscitate her to save Stefan. That makes eight I think.

[ask4ebuka]

Stefan Noooooooo. Wake up

Edited April 1, 2016 by ask4ebuka

[Artsda]

So filler, no idea what I really watched. 

 

Nora and ML dying together was the only interesting part.

[Primetimer]

She knows her poetry, but don't ask her to deal with your nonsense.

Read the story

[2Old2BAFangirl]

Wow, great ending!

I liked the episode, hate that everything is Damon's fault. Seems to me that there is plenty of blame to pass around.

On a different note, my goodness, all those boys were really pretty tonight!!

[miss-vanilla]

Agreed. I will join you in your 2 old to be a fangirl, because I'm definitely too old be one.

[TigerLynx]

I feel like I'm watching Groundhog Day.  It's the same thing over and over again.

 

Why won't Stefan let Damon die?  He was willing to let Elena die.

 

I understand Matt being angry at Stefan if Stefan is the reason Penny is dead, but shouldn't Matt have had this reaction to Stefan and Damon back when he finally found out the truth about Vicki's death?

[srpturtle80]

I don't think it's a good sign that, upon watching Matt's emotional scene at the graveyard, my first thought was "who the hell is Penny?" Is that the cop chick he was hanging out with? I am so over this show...

[Cattitude]

I really wanted to like this episode but the whole mark and phoenix stone stuff is just too ridiculous for words.

I also don't understand this sudden idea that Damon is the root of ALL Stefan's unhappiness. ugh!

I actually think both Rayna and Valerie have more chemistry with Stefan than Caroline.

 

I still have never understood why Damon would be horrified to take the mark. It is magic when Elena wakes up he was going to take the cure and become human again. He could have taken the mark ran from Rayna for 60ish years for Stefan then when Bonnie died(and actually if Bonnie is dying b/c of the magic pills(really show!) he may only have to run for a few months) take the cure and poof magic scar is useless and he and Elena could have their 60ish more happy ever after.

Like I said I couldn't enjoy the episode b/c the stupid burned too much!

 

only good part was Nora and Mary Louise......Bye FELICIA!

[Couver]

This episode jumped around way too much. I could have done without the Stefan/Valerie vacation flashbacks especially because they lead to no actual story development.

 

Not a single person thought to try magic on the stone itself even though it is a magical item that several characters have channeled with. I mean if they had tried when they had 4 heretics & Bonnie pretty sure they could have destroyed it without anyone dying. And what about that Coven on witches from The Originals or the long list Mikaelson sister. Isn't she like a 1000 year old witch? None of them knew the stone could be destroyed that way either? I mean I get why it had to happen from a plot perspective but when the end result is so glaringly silly it makes for a bad story.

 

Poor Matt. But they did very little to make us bond with Penny. I was expecting the grave marker to read Penny Donovan but I guess they didn't get that far before she died.

 

Shocking that Bonnie is in danger of dying yet again *heavy sarcasm* I didn't even really understand what was going on there. Enzo is feeding her the pills to hide her from the Armory? I did find it a little interesting that now there is a substance of sorts that hurts witches similar to vervain and wolfsbane.

 

I was sad to see Nora go. I never warmed up to Mary Louise but I liked the actress who played Nora. I wish we could have kept her instead of Valerie.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Couver

[bobbyjoe]

Damn there are a lot of lesbians being killed off this tv season!

 

Yep, that's four recurring lesbian characters killed off of three shows in a span of a little more than two weeks.  It's getting hard to argue that there's not a larger problem going on here. 

 

Part of VD's problem is that it just does not know how to deal with LGBT characters.  Like Luke before them, Nora and Mary Louise have been an inconsistent, underdeveloped absolute mess.  Suddenly, this episode decides they're a big dramatic Shakespeare-invoking love story.  Right before killing them.

 

I fully admit it's hard for me to care that Nora and Mary Louise are off the show.  But these were characters that were hard for viewers to latch onto, because any story about them was so lazily and sloppily told.  I suppose we should be grateful they at least had more to do than Luke, who the show never even bothered to give a romantic relationship at all before his pointless death. 

 

But how 'bout VD-- a show that was co-developed by a gay man, mind you-- actually try out a LGBT character who's genuinely integrated into the main storyline in a way that makes them less dispensable?  We're seven seasons in, and all we've gotten are Caroline's dad, Luke, Nora and Mary Louise, characters who seemed designed from the first to just move the straight characters story forward a little and then get killed.  Join us in 2016, VD; it's perfectly okay now to have better and more interesting LGBT characters.  Try it, why dontcha?

[GaT]

I honestly have no idea if what I'm watching is happening 3 years ago, today, or 3 years in the future, & I don't really care. I'm glad to see Nora & Mary Louise finally be gone, but if it doesn't happen until 3 years from now, then I guess they aren't really gone, are they?

 

I don't think it's a good sign that, upon watching Matt's emotional scene at the graveyard, my first thought was "who the hell is Penny?" Is that the cop chick he was hanging out with? I am so over this show...

Did you find out? I was wondering the same thing.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Join us in 2016, VD; it's perfectly okay now to have better and more interesting LGBT characters.  Try it, why dontcha?

Well, let's be honest - TVD is having a hard time writing better and more interesting straight characters these days too. Remember in S1 when Elena, Stefan, and Damon were interesting and complex characters? Now they're just doing the same old thing every week (saving whichever one of them is currently in peril, pining after whoever they can't have, and blaming each other for whatever has gone wrong). Bonnie has been a main character since S1 and she's been relegated to propping up everyone else and doing spells whenever the plot requires it. The other new characters they have added have been one dimensional and boring (Enzo, Alexis, Lily, Julian, just to name some of the more recent ones). The last interesting character they created was Kai and even he was mostly one note. Don't get me wrong - I am all for creating better LGBT characters. I just think that TVD is not the show to do it because they can't even write well for the existing characters who have rich back stories and intertwined relationships within the group (which theoretically should create interesting dynamics). The writing has been crappy in regards to both the plots and the characters for far too long now. I would be pleasantly surprised if they managed to create an awesome new LGBT character but at this point, that would be far more than I've come to expect from them over the last few seasons.

[Couver]

The odd thing though as far as LGBT characters go in this universe is that The Originals have done it well. Not only with an LGBT character but with an actual full fledged relationship. And yet TVD hasn't been able to do it.

 

Nora & Mary Louise could have had potential but they were bogged down with all the heretic nonsense. They were very sweet in this episode but it was too little to late.

 

I think that is one area the show is really floundering in recently. It's always had villains who way over stayed their welcome but in the past the show has done a better job making viewers care for or like these villains (Katherine, Originals, Kai). That hasn't happened at all this season. The heretics, Lily, Julian, and Rayna have all just flopped with viewers. I think the actress who plays Rayna could be good but the writing for the character is so up and down she doesn't have much to work with.

[miss-vanilla]

The phoenix stone mythology has been this season's "travelers". None of it makes much sense, and hasn't done since the 7x10 when Damon's hellscape was featured. To this day, I'm confused as to what the function of the stone is as why?

 

In the beginning we were told it was a nasty "prison" stone complete with eerie torturous images.

It was supposed to be a punishment hell for vampires.

Then it morphed into a "riddle" stone, a puzzle that needed to be solved before you can leave.

Now it's function is  life coach, to make someone better, to liberate them from the chains of whatever "IT" deems to be holding them back.

WHY? I don't get it.

Wasn't the huntress' purpose was to rid the world of vampires to avenge her Father's death, not rehabilitate bad vamps.

 

This is how I see it. The whole purpose of this stone was to reset the brother dynamic back to S1. The dynamic where Stefan believes he is the good brother and Damon is the bad, and every character on the show, including perfect strangers reinforce that notion ad nauseum.

The episode itself was fast paced, (aside from the Stefan/Val stuff), and if watched without any knowledge of previous canon and character development, I guess it was good, but I can't enjoy this story when I know that it undermines 6 seasons of previous canon.

I have been perpetually confused since 7x10, up until then, I thought this season was going fairly well.

[miss-vanilla]

I really wanted to like this episode but the whole mark and phoenix stone stuff is just too ridiculous for words.

I also don't understand this sudden idea that Damon is the root of ALL Stefan's unhappiness. ugh!

I actually think both Rayna and Valerie have more chemistry with Stefan than Caroline.

 

I still have never understood why Damon would be horrified to take the mark. It is magic when Elena wakes up he was going to take the cure and become human again. He could have taken the mark ran from Rayna for 60ish years for Stefan then when Bonnie died(and actually if Bonnie is dying b/c of the magic pills(really show!) he may only have to run for a few months) take the cure and poof magic scar is useless and he and Elena could have their 60ish more happy ever after.

Like I said I couldn't enjoy the episode b/c the stupid burned too much!

 

only good part was Nora and Mary Louise......Bye FELICIA!

 

Well, I guess it would be gamble as to whether Rayna would outlive Bonnie, one which Damon did not want to risk. All that changed when he knew he had run out of time and little bro was about to die. Damon said it, he tried to have it all and who can blame him. He was trying to save both their futures.

Damon has suffered just as much as Stefan has, despite what the narrative implies.

[Argenta]

I'm hopelessly confuzzled by this point. Which to be fair is usually the case by mid-season with this show, as they build up more and more complex layers of story, mythology, and rules until our heads are spinning...and then either contradict them all or find tons of loopholes to render it all pointless.

 

A few things I would appreciate clarification on, if anyone is following this more intelligently than I am:

 

-So they're now referring to the future-stuff as 'Today' and the current stuff as 'Three years ago'. Does this mean they're just skipping the three years in between?

 

-And what was the original purpose of the time jump - to allow Alaric's twins to grow so that the show wouldn't be bogged down with newborns?  

 

-If Rayna's purpose really is to destroy as many vampires as she can, why does she mess around marking them first? In this episode, she had Stefan AND Damon effectively at her mercy, and she wastes time with all this mark-swapping nonsense. 

[TwistedandBored]

It was a fast moving episode which the brothers/Matt and a lot other characters that I didn't care about. I missed Bonnie. Also, I am really getting sick at how they are making it seem like it is Damon's fault that everything in Stefan's life goes wrong. I get Damon is a dick and selfish but give others some of the blame as well. 

 

 

The odd thing though as far as LGBT characters go in this universe is that The Originals have done it well. Not only with an LGBT character but with an actual full fledged relationship. And yet TVD hasn't been able to do it.

 

Didn't TO kill their gay character as well? I don't watch the show but last I heard they offed one half of their gay couple. 

 

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

And what was the original purpose of the time jump - to allow Alaric's twins to grow so that the show wouldn't be bogged down with newborns?

Like Pretty Little Liars, TVD started in real time but because the earlier seasons covered only one semester the show was years behind. On PLL, this resulted in some dissonance between what the characters were wearing/watching/listening to because it's hard to believe that they're using the newest cell phones or going to a Frozen singalong when the show is taking place two or three years before that phone is available or the movie has come out. The time jump allowed both shows to finally line up with current time aka it's now 2016 in our world and their world.

 

Didn't TO kill their gay character as well? I don't watch the show but last I heard they offed one half of their gay couple.

Yup, they killed off Josh's boyfriend Aiden near the end of S2.

[Hiddenpick]

Days of Future past is yet another in the series of the days of ours lives soap opera story about the brothers Salvatore. It's old, it's annoying and I tire of seeing variations on the theme of the same sorry story told with the same outcome. Actually, this outing may have set the brother's relationship back, after all the forward movements that have been teased. Stefan's resolve to be there for his brother has been established from S1 as well as his wish for his brother to be 'all that he can be' (and by any means) has been a constant. He did proselytize that even though he lost Elena, she was a good influence on jeopardous Damon. What is also vested is Stefan's disappointment in his brother's behavior, which in fact, has, on many occasion led to Stefan's earnestness (albeit temporary) to renounce Damon. So asked to buy that Stefan has had this sudden epiphany about his need to abandon Damon  instigated by none other than Rayna is just, well...ridiculous.

 

Yes, they love each other--unless they don't. They need each other--unless they don't. Damon often chooses to attend to his needs regardless of the consequences his behavior may wrought on Stefan --or anyone he proclaims to love for that matter. He chose desiccation over remaining with Stefan (and Bonnie) when Rayna threaten. And now, when given a new option to 'save' his brother, he chose not to--until, that is, it was too late. I suppose there is something to be said about intent--it's just that I have no clue what that word is when it comes to Damon. Here's what I know, he shouldn't have to be continually talked into being there (consistently) for his brother--not by Valerie and not by, for or because of Elena's influence.

 

Time has 'caught up' with this season's ploy. The three year flash forward is now real time with flashbacks being the new narrative for the story.
This episode packed quite a lot of 'round up' action, trying to tie up mysteries of Matt's 'psychotic break' and Enzo's story and inform viewers of past three years action. Although Matt's motivation was no mystery at all since we already knew that the underwhelming and little known character of Penny triggered his ire. We have yet to find out why Stefan killed Penny. Ask me if I care--go ahead ask.

 

Enzo, our ever morphing man whose motivation for action changes as often as sheets in a motel frequented by prostitutes, is now apparently in love with Bonnie and trying desperately to save her. Heaven help us.
As for the Armory, the Initiative-ish cheap resemblance, is still mired in mystery. Not the wringing-hands-gotta-know-right-now-cause-I-can't-sleep type though. It's the irritating-unhelpful should-I-care-why-isn't-it-clear type. Although if I had to guess, the Armory has to be this season's big bad. What will happen now that the stone is destroyed thanks to Nora and Mary Louise, who BTW are gone---say goodbye to two gay characters.

 

That creative deficit is a major problem in "Days of Future Past" is an understatement; and the inclusion of bald expository dialogue, forgettable action with direction by IS does nothing to off set what's wrong. The storytelling had a flurry of activity but that still doesn't allow you enough time to realize that the story itself lacked urgency. Next up? Days of Thunder maybe--the race to find Ste-fan followed by Days of wine and Roses--a set featuring Axl, give me patience, please.

 

[PinkRibbons]

I'd put money on Stefan not even being the direct cause of Penny's death. I'll bet Matt called him for help and Penny died because Stefan didn't come save the day.

 

As for The Armory -- how is it still standing? It's like an even more extreme and organized version of the whatsit society that trapped Enzo and Damon. It's threatening to basically everything supernatural; it's giving the biggest incentive to work together that Vampires, Werewolves, Doppelgangers, Witches and what have you to unite. Plus, making shady-ass deals with no integrity like Alex did in this episode with Nora never leads to anything good. Crowley said it best about making deals with bad people:

 

[slayer2]

Damn there are a lot of lesbians being killed off this tv season!

CW needs a psychiatric evaluation.

[miss-vanilla]

@Hiddenpick. Great post, I agree most of it except this part.

 

Yes, they love each other--unless they don't. They need each other--unless they don't. Damon often chooses to attend to his needs regardless of the consequences his behavior may wrought on Stefan --or anyone he proclaims to love for that matter. He chose desiccation over remaining with Stefan (and Bonnie) when Rayna threaten. And now, when given a new option to 'save' his brother, he chose not to--until, that is, it was too late. I suppose there is something to be said about intent--it's just that I have no clue what that word is when it comes to Damon. Here's what I know, he shouldn't have to be continually talked into being there (consistently) for his brother--not by Valerie and not by, for or because of Elena's influence.

 

 

I don't agree with the current narrative of the show right now since I don't believe it is earned. I won't deny that Damon has been selfish in regards to Stefan, but he has also been shown to have been incredibly selfless also. Likewise Stefan hes been both Selfish and selfless regarding Damon. This dynamic has been a push pull from day one, but all of sudden everything Damon does is wrong/selfish disregarding story that has been told in this very season and in the past.. Damon and Stefan both had very different reasons and plans for killing Julian. Damon shelved his in the end to help Stefan carry out his, ie he put Stefan's needs first.

We see in flashbacks how Damon put his brother first, 1942 (wartime), 1857 (as a child), 1958 (after Augustine) a few of many examples.

I remember very recently that Damon was put into the phoenix stone because without hesitation he was saving his brother. He was saving Stefan from a situation that Stefan recklessly put himself and Damon in. Should Damon blame Stefan for everything that ensued after that? Damon doesn't think so since he never blames Stefan for anything, but it sure comes back in the other direction tenfold, and from every other character under the sun.

Yes Stefan got the hunters mark that was meant for Damon, but I do remember that Stefan needed to be strongly shamed and coerced into helping Damon out in that situation, much like Val did to Damon in the car. Stefan was pissed at Damon for burning "Elena" yet he attempted to burn Damon's corpse. Stefan wanted to kill Damon for real to free himself from hallucinations, yet Damon is a monster Damon is selfish, Damon is reckless, Damon is dark???? This was like 5 episodes ago.

I don't remember a time when Damon had to be coerced into helping or saving Stefan, Damon usually is already there on his own, just like he was in this episode, and many times before like in 5x22, 3x01, 3x02, 3x03.

Very few are  buying this now in S7, not the fans, the media or the recappers so I sure hope that the writers have a plan here otherwise this show is not going to survive this retconning of the Salvatore brother bond, it's barely hanging in there now.

 

ETA: This post got long and a bit ranty, but it isn't aimed at you Hiddenpick, but the writing. I enjoyed your post.

Edited April 3, 2016 by miss-vanilla

[phoenix780]

The odd thing though as far as LGBT characters go in this universe is that The Originals have done it well. Not only with an LGBT character but with an actual full fledged relationship. And yet TVD hasn't been able to do it.

 

I've actually been cool with the way the show incorporates LGBT characters.  They aren't numerous but when they show up they're just kinda there, as half-sketched as any other character, and that's how I like it. Still, this was really bad timing for the show even though they killed off two minor characters who were both sort of villains.  

 

Having said that...I'm finding myself annoyed by their deaths (or "deaths"- did we see bodies?), because while I never developed affection for the characters (the brunette seemed kinda cool) wasn't the whole point that heretics were insanely strong because they channel their own magic?  And they can, like, turn invisible and turn others invisible and whatnot?  So...why did they die?  Clearly they were both pretty strong, even after the one was poisoned, because they blew up the magic stone.  Couldn't they invisibly zip out of the car before the explosion?  I dunno, they fell into this pattern and undermined their own mythology...it annoys me, imho.  So I'm going to pretend that's what they did.  Magical teleport, because that's more interesting to me.  And the brunette will pop up later at some point, the scar portal closed because the stone blew up.  

 

On another note- I was also thrown when the 3 years later became "today."  Not a super complicated plot device, the time jumping, but not really needed.  Though it does allow us to fast-forward through the relationship swaps which I suppose is a good thing.

[Couver]

They tried to get out of that by saying Nora was weakened from hunger. But still I agree. They've never handled powerful characters well on this show or TO because eventually you have to have them lose so they get a down grade or some poorly written excuse. Witches are the worst victims of this. 

[miss-vanilla]

Almost burning Damon and Damon actually burning Elena are not the same things at all. And I think Stefan would have been more forgivable about Damon burning him for his personal grief/quarrel/bad blood with him, than Damon burning an innocent girl. 

 

 

Well Damon didn't actually burn Elena, and he didn't even believe he was burning Elena in the first place because he was hallucinating Henry, so yes the situations are not that comparable in hindsight. What Stefan did was worse. He actively drenched his brother in petrol and intended to burn him to death save for Caroline. no hallucinations required. 

For me, Damon seeking out Elena for comfort under severe emotional distress is understandable and in character for Damon. The definition of being mentally unstable in itself means he lacked the capacity to understand what a risk that was. Damon was not himself, he would never knowingly or intentionally  put Elena in danger, that much has been hammered home repeatedly in this show. Elena's life means more to Damon than his own, hence his downward spiral into self hatred and punishment. He wouldn't even allow himself the luxury off flipping his humanity switch.

 

 

And of course, when Stefan is shamed into saving Damon --- he ends up getting hurt, and his happiness ruined. Pretty much the same way he saved Damon from Klaus in season 2 and ended up getting his life ruined, while said Damon decided that this was the best time to win his brother's girlfriend "fair and square".

 

Stefan saving Damon in S2/3 was Stefan's choice. Damon didn't ask Stefan to do this for him, in fact Damon was prepared to die alone, with no fuss. He took off his ring and accepted his fate. The problem with Stefan is that he just can't let Damon die, which is very noble as long as you don't resent that later in the day. It's all well and good playing the noble saviour/martyr, but to blame Damon for saving him against his will is just hateful and toxic. Damon has no control over Stefans actions, just like he has no control over Bonnie now. If people choose to save Damon, those actions are on them, not Damon. He doesn't ask them too.

When Damon saved Bonnie in 6x22, he resented her afterwards. It's the same thing and I didn't like that he threw that "sacrifice" in her face. He is over it now, but initially he made a choice to save her, and he resented her because it ruined his life, but he accepted it and got over it fairly quickly. Stefan holds that grudge forever it seems. It seems he regrets and resents the sacrifice he made for Damon, but he forgets one thing. Caroline is a part of this too, and she also made a choice. Caroline chose her NOT children over a life with Stefan. Caroline was not prepared to sacrifice a life with Alarics' children for a life with Stefan. Caroline put her happiness first is all i'm saying, and why shouldn't  Damon right now especially when he thought he had a plan that could give them all everything.

 

The flashbacks I mentioned were in S4 (1942) when Lexie implied Stefan would be happier without Damon. Doing what he thought would be best for Stefan, he put Stefan's happiness and wellbeing first.

In season 5, he chose to spare Stefan the horror story of his Augustine hell, because he knew Stefan would feel guilty for not saving him.

The S7 flashback was a human Defan story. It was an example of Damon protecting Stefan from the wrath of his abusive Father, All this time Damon believed Stefan stole Guiseppes money, which is why Damon took the blame. He was livid when Lily revealed it was her.

Throughout the whole series there have flashbacks that unravel the story of the Salvatores from different POV's. The earlier ones were mainly from Stefan's POV, and the later one's have been mainly from Damon's POV. Like I said there is a push/pull dynamic here, but no one can doubt that neither brother would let the other die if there was an alternative solution which is why I don't accept this current narrative that Damon is the most selfish brother that ever lived, and he is the blight on the saintly life of Stefan Salvatore that never does a thing wrong, and that Damon is the root cause of Stefans problems. He isn't, but this season is Stefans season. The story is from his POV, much like last season was from a Damon POV mostly.

Although Damon's selfless actions towards Stefan may not have always been theatrical life saving moments, Damon has shown time and again that he will put his brother first, and has followed through in quieter moments of the show., however, as we all know, he is also capable of being a jaw dropping hero too. Personally, I have enjoyed the quiet hero moments more, because they are private. Damon doesn't need an audience be heroic, he just does it because it feels right to him in that moment. I love that about him, his heroism is instinctual and not pre-meditated. When Damon actively tries to be the hero, it goes terribly wrong lol.

 

 Damon isn't the only one whose decisions hurt people. Stefan has made many decisions that hurt people, he just has selective amnesia. Aside from the "ripper" story, Stefan does make choices that have hurt others on a fairly regular basis, even back in s1 when he killed vikki.

In S3 he chose himself and his vengeance put innocent lives at risk, including Elenas', Jeremy's and Alaric's.

In S4 he chose to kill innocents to get the cure for Elena, even risking Jeremy again.

In S5, he chose to attack and hurt Jessie, almost killing him save for Caroline. He again chose vengeance against Silas and nearly ruined Bonnie's chance of survival.

In s6, he risked another human  by invoving Ivy in his life. He also allowed another human to die (monique) because he chose Sarah Salvatore. He chose to flip his humanity off to save Sarah Salvatore again later in the season, which resulted in innocent humans dying.

In S7 we have Stefan making choices, again due to revenge that endangered lives. Including his brothers.

There is an annoying theme with Stefans' story and that is the "almost" theme. In order to preserve the halo effect, Stefan hasn't actually succeeded in killing anyone of note except Andie Starr. Stefan has always been protected by hero plot armor which manifests in other characters coming to the rescue just in time to prevent him toppling over into true villain territory in contrast to Damon when there is no one there to save him from himself. Intent for me is important, and in many circumstances Stefan has proven that he is just as willing to kill as Damon is, but at the last second someone is usually there to pull him back from the edge by either talking him down (Elena. Lexie Caroline), someone else doing the job for him ( Enzo, Damon), or someone preventing him forcefully (Bonnie, Damon, Elena). Either that or there is some other excuse for him like the "ripper", "No humanity", "PTSD"  "Grief".  Thats fine, but honestly, not allowing Stefan to dirty his hands makes Stefan a dull boy. Stefan is flawed show. Own it and stop trying to pigeon hole him into a place he doesn't fit.

Stefan has made choices out of selfishness and out of protectiveness of his loved ones that have resulted in collateral damage. In this respect he holds zero higher ground over damon,  and we have yet to see what his involvement in Penny's death he had.. 

 

One thing we do agree on is this tiring Defan dynamic. It's season 7 and the writers are determined to keep rehashing the same the thing over and over. I wouldn't mind this so much, but it's always Damons' character they regress and retcon to do it.

It's so obvious that before the season is through, Damon will pull off something really heroic and prove himself a worthy brother to Stefan. Just no, we have already done this story in S5 and S6, and I'm  sick of Damon having to seek Stefan's respect in order for Defan to progress every single time.

Edited April 6, 2016 by miss-vanilla

[phoenix780]

They tried to get out of that by saying Nora was weakened from hunger. But still I agree. They've never handled powerful characters well on this show or TO because eventually you have to have them lose so they get a down grade or some poorly written excuse. Witches are the worst victims of this. 

Oh yeah. Because The Armory was so into catching Enzo that they sent a hunger-weakened witchpire (heretic) with no special gadgets.  I get that Nora had to go alone because the woman had trust issues, but still.  No food for her? No magic-strengthening pill or even stuff we know about like, say, werewolf's venom or vervein?

 

I'm still pretending they escaped magically.  We've seen weirder (pregnant vampire, anyone?).

[formerlyfreedom]

Episode discussion, please. Discussion of past episodes, or what's not working or hasn't worked doesn't belong in current episode discussion. Here's a spot to discuss the show overall. Here's the spot to discuss relationships.

 

Thanks.

 

[ByTor]

show has been as inconsistent with the heretics powers as it was with Klaus hybrids.

This episode seems to be continuing old patterns with the powerful baddies (especially IMO heretics and the Originals)...the baddies are the baddest bads who ever badded, that is, until at least one of them forms an alliance with the Mystic Falls gang, at which point they become uncharacteristically vulnerable.

[miss-vanilla]

The heretics have almost become victims. They were oh so powerful but so stupid at the same time. Fan speculation before the season began was that they wouldn't make it past mid season. They weren't far out.

It's a tad predictable that so far Val, the Stefan worshipper is the last Heretic standing in a season where the writers have removed every ally from Damon.

I'm bored now. I sincerely doubt I will be back for S8. I really do not want to become a hate watcher for one of my all time favorite shows.

Edited April 8, 2016 by miss-vanilla