The One With the Thing: All Episodes Talk

[Katy M]

10 minutes ago, deaja said:

Didn't Carol cheat on Ross with Susan, but then was together with Susan when she and Ross conceived Ben?

I don't think we know that.  First of all, if you're cheating on your spouse, and then have sex with your spouse, I don't think that counts as cheating on whoever you're cheating with.  You're supposed to be with your spouse.  Secondly, I don't think we've ever been given a clear timeline on when Ben was conceived in relation to when Carol started cheating with Susan.

[DkNNy79]

18 hours ago, Katy M said:

I never felt like she was jealous of Ross.  I always just thought that she felt that Ross should fully support her and Carol's relationship and until he was willing to do that, she was going to be a jerk to him.

She was expecting too much and wasn't taking anyone's feelings into consideration but her own.  She is the "other woman" in the relationship.  I always thought Ross was cordial to her, if she was expecting warmth that's her problem.   It was all very new to Ross and I don't feel like Susan/Carol gave him time to acclimate himself to the situation.  They just expected him to be okay with the situation and be supportive, which given time he was.  But they really didn't make it very easy on him.  At the end of the day he was the odd man out.  They had each other, they got to experience the pregnancy 24/7 and would have Ben the majority of the time.  They should've been more understanding.

Edited June 22, 2017 by DkNNy79

[Bort]

8 minutes ago, DkNNy79 said:

I don't feel like Susan/Carol gave him time to acclimate himself to the situation.  They just expected him to be okay with the situation and be supportive, which given time he was.  But they really didn't make it very easy on him.

It was pretty much Carol and Susan having the attitude of "We're gay! Society persecutes us! You have to be nice to us!" When in actuality, they were cheaters, and Ross shouldn't have had to be nice to them if he didn't want to.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't think we know that.  First of all, if you're cheating on your spouse, and then have sex with your spouse, I don't think that counts as cheating on whoever you're cheating with.  You're supposed to be with your spouse.  Secondly, I don't think we've ever been given a clear timeline on when Ben was conceived in relation to when Carol started cheating with Susan.

Got it.  For some reason, I thought that the show had established that Ben was conceived when Ross and Carol were officially separating and Susan was about to move in.  In my mind, it would be cheating on Susan if she and Ross were "officially done" as in divorce papers filed and she and Susan had already committed to a relationship.  

Many episodes I've only seen once.

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, deaja said:

Didn't Carol cheat on Ross with Susan, but then was together with Susan when she and Ross conceived Ben?  In that way, she had cheated on both of them with the other one, so I could see some of the animosity.  Of course, when your partner cheats, your anger should really be directed at them.

I don't know...I vaguely remember something being mentioned at one point (maybe the Valentine's episode where Ross and Carol ended up having dinner together?), but I can't remember the circumstance.  I always assumed, and could be wrong, that Ben was conceived in the dying days of their marriage, after Carol had started "something" with Susan, although I don't know if that something was a full-blown relationship at that point.

[chitowngirl]

Ha! I thought I clicked on the ER thread and was reading the post above and was Huh?! Then I got to the part about Ben and the fog cleared.

[BBHN]

Quote

"We're gay! Society persecutes us! You have to be nice to us!"

Like, that was supposed to justify them being assholes or something. I mean, Ross was a pill at times, but Susan and Carol's treatment of him, just...ugh. And everyone would side with them. Even Monica!

[mojoween]

I have to discuss "The One Where the Stripper Cries" here because it has best AND worst in it.

Joey on Pyramid is unbelievably stupid.  I mean, they would have gone over the rules of the game so he would know you can't say notebook and schmooprint before taping.  Also, I still can't figure out why they were taping the end part because they lost and shouldn't have been able to do that.

Also stupid is the wedding shower Rachel and Monica threw for Phoebe.  Of all people, we're supposed to think they thought Phoebe would like a sedate tea party?  Come ON.

However, "paper! snow! a ghost!" will always make me laugh. (But wondering why a ghost would be in the refrigerator when he's the one who said it and it was wrong was a terrible line.)

And while mean, "I'm sorry, did you say 'all man' or 'old man'" is funny.  Danny DeVito put so much personality into a small part and gave it right back to Phoebe.

For the third plot, I love Rachel's look and little hand flutter when she turns away from Chandler at the party after she says "what a line" but she obviously was taken by a college guy saying that to her.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

I have to discuss "The One Where the Stripper Cries" here because it has best AND worst in it.

Joey on Pyramid is unbelievably stupid.  I mean, they would have gone over the rules of the game so he would know you can't say notebook and schmooprint before taping.  Also, I still can't figure out why they were taping the end part because they lost and shouldn't have been able to do that.

Also stupid is the wedding shower Rachel and Monica threw for Phoebe.  Of all people, we're supposed to think they thought Phoebe would like a sedate tea party?  Come ON.

However, "paper! snow! a ghost!" will always make me laugh. (But wondering why a ghost would be in the refrigerator when he's the one who said it and it was wrong was a terrible line.)

And while mean, "I'm sorry, did you say 'all man' or 'old man'" is funny.  Danny DeVito put so much personality into a small part and gave it right back to Phoebe.

For the third plot, I love Rachel's look and little hand flutter when she turns away from Chandler at the party after she says "what a line" but she obviously was taken by a college guy saying that to her.

It's a comedy.  Joey's stupid. I thought Pyramid was funny.  As for him not knowing how to play, have you ever watched Celebrity Wheel of Fortune.  They generally don't know how to play either.  They don't know they have to buy vowels.  They try to buy vowels or spin during the final spin puzzle.  So, I'm not 100% sure they do go over rules before tapings.  And, yes, it was totally contrived that they matched Joey up with the winner for the last part, but I loved that he was getting all those right. 

Danny DeVito was funny in that role. 

I thought Monica having her first kiss with Ross was the worst part of the epi, though. How do you (Ross) not recognize your own sister?  Didn't you look at the face before kissing?

[willco]

On 1/8/2016 at 11:24 PM, Madding crowd said:

Phoebe was Monica's roommate but we don't know how they actually met or why they continued to hang around after Phoebe moved, especially since Phoebe was apparently mad at Monica at the time, and they mentioned a couple of times that Phoebe lived far away (probably not really, but in their terms).

 

It was also never explained why Ursula dislikes her twin sister to the point of refusing to let her into her apartment, where Phoebe's loving grandma was when she was living in the street or in cars. Phoebe also seemed to have an extensive wardrobe and a large apartment (after grandma died) while working part-time as a massage therapist.

 

Lisa Kudrow was amazing in the part but I could never really stand Phoebe. I'm a bit obsessed with friends, so I have the episodes pretty well memorized and even before she had the triplets Phoebe was never that nice. She often joked about hurting the others, cutting the others and made comments that made it seem like she was minutes away from snapping. I also didn't like her aggressive sexual comments which just didn't match up to her because she always seemed kind of asexual and cold to me. I especially didn't like it when she married Mike and would talk about their sex life in front of the group even though it made mike uncomfortable. Then of course both she and Rachel sexually harassed people at their workplace. Yes, I could go on and on with my Phoebe dislike.

I agree with just about everything you said ! Phoebe was, by far, my least liked character. We're suppose to think she acted like she did because she was quirky, but most of the time she was just an ass. Remember when she needed money and Joey got her an extra's part on Days ? Then she made it all about herself and, instead of doing the job, which I imagine the pay was pretty good for what she had to do, she screwed it up & got fired ? There are lots of examples of her being a jerk and I just didn't like her.

[RainbowBrite]

I think the timeline of Ben's conception is a bit wonky:

Exhibit A: Ross finds out that Carol is expecting in the first (or first couple) episodes of Season 1. He's moping around and the divorce seems relatively recent.

Exhibit B: Season 3 "The One with the Flashback" shows 1 year prior to the pilot, Ross finds out that Carol is leaving him for Susan.

That means that either the flashback wasn't actually 1 year prior to the pilot, or Ross and Carol reconnected well after she came out.

 

The One with the Flashback also helps explain why Monica and Phoebe remained friends after Phoebe moved out. She said that she liked Monica and wanted to be friends with her, and that couldn't happen if they continued to live together.

[pieinmyeye]

Does anyone know the name of the episode where Phoebe and Joey meet Frank Jr.? Also, the name of the episode where Rachel and Ross are on the balcony and the cat jumps on him? Obviously I've had no luck finding them. Thanks!!

[chitowngirl]

Quote

Does anyone know the name of the episode where Phoebe and Joey meet Frank Jr.? Also, the name of the episode where Rachel and Ross are on the balcony and the cat jumps on him? Obviously I've had no luck finding them. Thanks!!

1) The One With The Bullies (s2ep21)

2) The One With The Blackout (s1ep7)

Edited June 28, 2017 by chitowngirl

[RainbowBrite]

13 hours ago, pieinmyeye said:

Does anyone know the name of the episode where Phoebe and Joey meet Frank Jr.? Also, the name of the episode where Rachel and Ross are on the balcony and the cat jumps on him? Obviously I've had no luck finding them. Thanks!!

Ross, Rachel & cat on the balcony: The One with the Blackout (Season 1 Episode 7)

Phoebe meets Frank Jr: The One with the Bullies (Season 2 Episode 21)

Edited June 28, 2017 by RainbowBrite
whoops!

[pieinmyeye]

4 hours ago, RainbowBrite said:

Ross, Rachel & cat on the balcony: The One with the Blackout (Season 1 Episode 7)

Phoebe meets Frank Jr: The One with the Bullies (Season 2 Episode 21)

Thank you so much!!

[VCRTracking]

I wonder, did the writers know they were slowly making Ross terrible after season 2, or did they think  the way he was acting was totally acceptable? I mean I still found him funny, especially when he was being humiliated, but there's no escaping that Ross became such an asshole.

Edited July 6, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Katy M]

11 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I wonder, did the writers they were slowly making Ross terrible after season 2, or did they think  the way he was acting was totally acceptable? I mean I still found him funny, especially when he was being humiliated, but there's no escaping that Ross became such an asshole.

Ross was my least favorite character. Almost everything he did was jerky or stupid.  The whole tanning bit was ridiculous.  He should have been tested for brain damage.  We've all had our lunch, or something else, stolen at work.  Get over it. If you say someone else's name at your wedding, you are in the wrong.  Every time.  There is zero excuse for that.  Emily does not somehow get to become the bad guy in that scenario.  And, yes, Ross, of course that cat is not Phoebe's mom and she should be returned to the little girl, but let's try being more compassionate.  But, Rachel was so much worse in that epi that I might almost give him a pass there.  Cups is obviously a made up game.  Don't steal all of Joey's money.  I will give him credit, though, because I saw nothing that said he didn't want to be a good and involved father.

[RainbowBrite]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Ross was my least favorite character. Almost everything he did was jerky or stupid.  The whole tanning bit was ridiculous.  He should have been tested for brain damage.  We've all had our lunch, or something else, stolen at work.  Get over it. If you say someone else's name at your wedding, you are in the wrong.  Every time.  There is zero excuse for that.  Emily does not somehow get to become the bad guy in that scenario.  And, yes, Ross, of course that cat is not Phoebe's mom and she should be returned to the little girl, but let's try being more compassionate.  But, Rachel was so much worse in that epi that I might almost give him a pass there.  Cups is obviously a made up game.  Don't steal all of Joey's money.  I will give him credit, though, because I saw nothing that said he didn't want to be a good and involved father.

I agree with everything you said except for the Phoebe/mother/cat scenario. I've never related to Ross more (or at all really) than I do in that episode.

[Maharincess]

The tanning thing was ridiculous.  Turn the hell around you idiot!  

[RainbowBrite]

Also they completely torpedoed Emily's character after the wedding in order to set up another round of Ross & Rachel. While she wasn't at fault in any way for Ross saying the wrong name at the wedding, she was completely unreasonable in her demands that he never see Rachel again. She lived with his sister!

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, RainbowBrite said:

Also they completely torpedoed Emily's character after the wedding in order to set up another round of Ross & Rachel. While she wasn't at fault in any way for Ross saying the wrong name at the wedding, she was completely unreasonable in her demands that he never see Rachel again. She lived with his sister!

If my fiancé said the wrong name at our wedding, I'm just not going to continue with the ceremony.  However, second choice, I don't want him talking to or seeing that person again.  I won't, however, make him move, get rid of his furniture, or all the other ridiculousness.  Don't forget she also saw them getting on the plane to go on her honeymoon.  if there was ever an occasion for overreaction this was it.

[VCRTracking]

I think almost every person that a member of the group dated ended up having something wrong with them except for Richard and Mona. I was going to say Kathy but she did cheat on Chandler(although I heard the female cast members liked Paget Brewster so much they unsuccessfully tried to get the writers make it so Kathy moved away instead of cheating). It always had to be the other person's fault and not the fault of the Central Perk gang. I'm glad Paul Rudd's Mike made the cut!

[RainbowBrite]

7 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I think almost every person that a member of the group dated ended up having something wrong with them except for Richard and Mona. I was going to say Kathy but she did cheat on Chandler(although I heard the female cast members liked Paget Brewster so much they unsuccessfully tried to get the writers make it so Kathy moved away instead of cheating). It always had to be the other person's fault and not the fault of the Central Perk gang. I'm glad Paul Rudd's Mike made the cut!

David was great too!

[Bort]

2 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I think almost every person that a member of the group dated ended up having something wrong with them except for Richard and Mona.

I don't think there was really anything wrong with Tag. He was only 23 and just wasn't quite at the same level for the serious relationship that Rachel was interested in. If she'd dated him five years later, there probably wouldn't have been a problem.

Mona, however, had the bad judgment to date someone who had so much baggage that he clearly did not have any time for her. The scene where Rachel's father came in while she was there and yelled at Ross about getting Rachel pregnant? That was Mona's out and she should have taken it. She should have run like the wind. Instead, she kept dating Ross, where he kept forgetting to meet her on their dates, gave her a key to his apartment and promptly changed the locks, and then the capper: moved his pregnant ex-wife in with him and didn't tell her. So that was what was wrong with Mona.

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Mona, however, had the bad judgment to date someone who had so much baggage that he clearly did not have any time for her. The scene where Rachel's father came in while she was there and yelled at Ross about getting Rachel pregnant? That was Mona's out and she should have taken it. She should have run like the wind. Instead, she kept dating Ross, where he kept forgetting to meet her on their dates, gave her a key to his apartment and promptly changed the locks, and then the capper: moved his pregnant ex-wife in with him and didn't tell her. So that was what was wrong with Mona.

I know.  I could never understand that.  It would have made more sense if they had had more than a history, but they had only been on maybe a couple of dates before everything went nutso.  She was not invested yet, and she should have gotten out.  I could totally agree with Ross when he said he actually kind of judged her for not breaking up with him sooner.  But, then, after that, they had the whole stupid scene with him trying to get his shirt back and she says she wants him back and he rejects her because, well, I'm not really sure why, but it had something to do with her, not him, I'm sure.

4 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

I don't think there was really anything wrong with Tag. He was only 23 and just wasn't quite at the same level for the serious relationship that Rachel was interested in. If she'd dated him five years later, there probably wouldn't have been a problem.

I think we can apply that same logic to Elizabeth.  She was way too young for Ross, and should have known better than to date her professor, but didn't seem to be inherently "wrong" or anything.

[RainbowBrite]

13 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

I don't think there was really anything wrong with Tag. He was only 23 and just wasn't quite at the same level for the serious relationship that Rachel was interested in. If she'd dated him five years later, there probably wouldn't have been a problem.

Mona, however, had the bad judgment to date someone who had so much baggage that he clearly did not have any time for her. The scene where Rachel's father came in while she was there and yelled at Ross about getting Rachel pregnant? That was Mona's out and she should have taken it. She should have run like the wind. Instead, she kept dating Ross, where he kept forgetting to meet her on their dates, gave her a key to his apartment and promptly changed the locks, and then the capper: moved his pregnant ex-wife in with him and didn't tell her. So that was what was wrong with Mona.

HA in that episode where they're all listing each others' terrible dating history and Ross says "What's wrong with Mona?!?!".

[Bort]

I think my favorite flaw in a love interest was Danny's. His ridiculously inappropriate relationship with his sister made me laugh and laugh. 

[Guest]

22 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

I wonder, did the writers know they were slowly making Ross terrible after season 2, or did they think  the way he was acting was totally acceptable? I mean I still found him funny, especially when he was being humiliated, but there's no escaping that Ross became such an asshole.

I think each friend was awful in their own way, but I think a lot of it was the writers' exaggerating things for humor.  I really don't think Ross was any worse than most of them. Phoebe would routinely say terrible things to them, yell at them, and didn't she at one point use Ross' apartment as a massage parlor? (I can't remember for sure; I haven't watched for awhile.)  Yet, she was "quirky."  Rachel had a lot of low moments too - I remember how she treated Bonnie convincing her to shave her head, wouldn't move out of Monica's place when Monica and Chandler wanted her to (and not because she had no place to go, just because she didn't want to), everything about the Tag storyline (from being completely unprofessional to spreading rumors about his sexual orientation).  She just seemed to be very spoiled and manipulative.

[Crs97]

Regarding Ross, Susan, and Carol - I thought they treated Ross terribly.  I was reminded about them when I watched Grace and Frankie.  The two dads who had been longtime lovers and divorced their wives once it became legal for them to marry invited the kids to dinner to celebrate their relationship.  The kids finally lay it out to them that being gay doesn't change the fact they cheated on their mothers.  I wish someone had had a similar discussion with Susan and Carol; perhaps they would have stopped gleefully  tormenting Ross for the terrible sin of loving his wife.

[slf]

I'm the total opposite of everyone here. I think that gay men and women raised in a society so aggressively homophobic (for which all straight people are accountable, yes) that they don't realize they're gay until they're in their twenties and married aren't cheating in the traditional sense if they step out on their spouse. Sure, it sucks. More for the straight person than for the gay person? Not really. Doesn't mean the straight person's feelings don't matter just that the understanding needs to go both ways. However. Ross was a homophobic guy. Oh, sure, he was also a go-along-to-get-along guy as well, but he was shown over the course of literally every season to be homophobic. (He was particularly bad about this when it came to Ben.) So I really have no problem with Carol and Susan not being nice to him all the time.

[RainbowBrite]

8 hours ago, slf said:

I'm the total opposite of everyone here. I think that gay men and women raised in a society so aggressively homophobic (for which all straight people are accountable, yes) that they don't realize they're gay until they're in their twenties and married aren't cheating in the traditional sense if they step out on their spouse. Sure, it sucks. More for the straight person than for the gay person? Not really. Doesn't mean the straight person's feelings don't matter just that the understanding needs to go both ways. However. Ross was a homophobic guy. Oh, sure, he was also a go-along-to-get-along guy as well, but he was shown over the course of literally every season to be homophobic. (He was particularly bad about this when it came to Ben.) So I really have no problem with Carol and Susan not being nice to him all the time.

My issue is NOT that Carol realized she was gay while married to Ross. My issue is with how Carol and Susan handled the unexpected pregnancy and how they did not include Ross in monumental decisions such as the baby's last name.

There was definitely terrible gay panic on the show with all the male characters, and Ross did not handle Ben's exploration of toys outside standard gender norms well, but I saw his support as more than just "go along to get along". As an example, he stood up for Carol at her wedding to Susan.

[slf]

4 hours ago, RainbowBrite said:

There was definitely terrible gay panic on the show with all the male characters, and Ross did not handle Ben's exploration of toys outside standard gender norms well, but I saw his support as more than just "go along to get along". As an example, he stood up for Carol at her wedding to Susan.

He could be nice, I'm not denying that just as I'm not denying that Carol and Susan could be rude. It just seems that a lot of the time Ross' homophobia gets a "well, y'know" while Carol and Susan apparently horribly abused poor Ross. When it came to Ben I thought some of the assumptions on Carol's part were funny because Ross clearly hadn't been expecting she wouldn't consult him and he already had his own ideas as to what should be done with Ben that he had clearly formed without consulting Carol (or at least that's true of the instances I can recall). They always seemed pretty evenly matched.

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, slf said:

He could be nice, I'm not denying that just as I'm not denying that Carol and Susan could be rude. It just seems that a lot of the time Ross' homophobia gets a "well, y'know" while Carol and Susan apparently horribly abused poor Ross. When it came to Ben I thought some of the assumptions on Carol's part were funny because Ross clearly hadn't been expecting she wouldn't consult him and he already had his own ideas as to what should be done with Ben that he had clearly formed without consulting Carol (or at least that's true of the instances I can recall). They always seemed pretty evenly matched.

I do have to say this. I'm currently doing a re-watch of the series and I'm appalled at how much homophobia was used as a comic device--more often by Ross, but most or all of the other characters do it as well.  This is not something that I picked up on (or, and I hate to admit this, maybe I just laughed along) in the 90s.

As for Ross, he's not my favorite character, but I do think he does get to be upset about Carol leaving him and, in the beginning, essentially trying to raise his child with someone else to the exclusion of Ross.  He does get to be upset about a woman he loved all of a sudden (in his eyes) not loving him "in that way."  He does get to be upset with Susan's disdain for him.  However, he can do all that without being homophobic.

[slf]

49 minutes ago, Morksmate said:

As for Ross, he's not my favorite character, but I do think he does get to be upset about Carol leaving him and, in the beginning, essentially trying to raise his child with someone else to the exclusion of Ross.  He does get to be upset about a woman he loved all of a sudden (in his eyes) not loving him "in that way."  He does get to be upset with Susan's disdain for him.  However, he can do all that without being homophobic.

I agree, he gets to be upset that his marriage ended and that he couldn't be with the woman he loved (and IIRC he said Carol was the first woman he was ever with?). I don't have a problem with that at all and would find it weird if he didn't experience some kind of grief over the relationship ending.

[Katy M]

I was at the pool and some kid yelled, "Let's do the routine."  I, of course, have no idea what their routine was.  But, I started laughing, because I was thinking of Ross and Monica's routine.  It also remind me, much as I didn't care for Ross, how much I loved their brother/sister relationship.  The sibling rivalry on Monica's part, the bickering from when they were kids, the dopey stuff they used to do, all pretty much realistic.

[Jax7917]

On 7/31/2017 at 4:37 AM, slf said:

I'm the total opposite of everyone here. I think that gay men and women raised in a society so aggressively homophobic (for which all straight people are accountable, yes) that they don't realize they're gay until they're in their twenties and married aren't cheating in the traditional sense if they step out on their spouse. Sure, it sucks. More for the straight person than for the gay person? Not really. Doesn't mean the straight person's feelings don't matter just that the understanding needs to go both ways. However. Ross was a homophobic guy. Oh, sure, he was also a go-along-to-get-along guy as well, but he was shown over the course of literally every season to be homophobic. (He was particularly bad about this when it came to Ben.) So I really have no problem with Carol and Susan not being nice to him all the time.

Sorry , but that still counts as traditional cheating . Ross and carol were married for 7 years . At a point during those 7 years, carol did not choose to be gay , but she chose to cheat on the person she was married to . Ross had every right to be mad . But what was even worse than that was that carol and Susan tried basically to get Ross to disappear and got mad if he had any input in anything in his sons life . They even wanted Ben to take Susan's last name and leave Ross out as if he was a sperm donor . I actually think Ross was being very nice to Susan considering the way most people in real life would be . I don't buy that " you're not cheating if you realize you're gay " and I actually think that's very weird to say 

[Crs97]

Didn't they even joke that they told the baby in utero that Ross was Bobo the sperm guy?  I didn't laugh.

[slf]

49 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Sorry , but that still counts as traditional cheating . Ross and carol were married for 7 years . At a point during those 7 years, carol did not choose to be gay , but she chose to cheat on the person she was married to .

Carol didn't wake up one day and decide she wanted a younger, fitter man or that she just wasn't satisfied in the relationship. She slowly began to realize that she was a closeted lesbian. That's traditional only in the sense that that's the tragic situation in which so many lesbians have found themselves for, oh, centuries. 

52 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I don't buy that " you're not cheating if you realize you're gay " and I actually think that's very weird to say 

Why? 

[FormerMod-a1]

I would say you don't have to have sex with someone else while you're married no matter which sex/gender you're attracted to.  So the cheating was "traditional" kind - had sex with someone else while married.  

[Jax7917]

5 minutes ago, slf said:

Carol didn't wake up one day and decide she wanted a younger, fitter man or that she just wasn't satisfied in the relationship. She slowly began to realize that she was a closeted lesbian. That's traditional only in the sense that that's the tragic situation in which so many lesbians have found themselves for, oh, centuries. 

Why? 

So by your definition , if you have sex with someone else while you're married , it's not cheating ? Only if they are younger and fitter it is? 

[Nordly Beaumont]

1 minute ago, aquarian1 said:

I would say you don't have to have sex with someone else while you're married no matter which sex/gender you're attracted to.

Right-o! Good old fashioned honesty is always an option. If Carol wasn't ready to just say "I'm gay" it would still be more honest to just tell Ross she wanted out. Same gender or not, it's not fair to keep your SO as a safety net while you cheat.

My first real boyfriend (a million years ago) broke up with me after he started sleeping with a guy. And, yes, we both considered it cheating.

[slf]

26 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

I would say you don't have to have sex with someone else while you're married no matter which sex/gender you're attracted to.  So the cheating was "traditional" kind - had sex with someone else while married.  

Well, no, you don't have to. But the amount of shame, fear, guilt, and denial a closeted lesbian would have to work through before accepting her sexuality and coming out complicates the situation.

21 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

So by your definition , if you have sex with someone else while you're married , it's not cheating ? Only if they are younger and fitter it is? 

No. I'm saying that being raised in such a violently bigoted society that you grow up denying a huge part of yourself gets you some leeway. A straight man bored of his wife does not have an excuse.

What's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander.

18 minutes ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

Right-o! Good old fashioned honesty is always an option. If Carol wasn't ready to just say "I'm gay" it would still be more honest to just tell Ross she wanted out. Same gender or not, it's not fair to keep your SO as a safety net while you cheat.

My first real boyfriend (a million years ago) broke up with me after he started sleeping with a guy. And, yes, we both considered it cheating.

I'm glad your ex was able to eventually accept himself and be honest with you. 

Edited August 7, 2017 by slf

[Bort]

Carol didn't have to come out if she wasn't ready to, but she should've at least  just divorced Ross. 

[BBHN]

I'm gay and I thought Carol cheating on Ross was shady as fuck.

[slf]

10 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Carol didn't have to come out if she wasn't ready to, but she should've at least  just divorced Ross. 

That certainly would've been less complicated.

But I'm not surprised she didn't. Plenty of straight women try threesomes not because they really want to but because they think it will please their husband/boyfriend. Carol, we know, tried a threesome with Susan and Ross. It's entirely unlikely that she did so to hurt Ross but rather to recontextualize her attraction to Susan in a way that didn't challenge her lifelong-held view of herself as a straight woman. The following Rossless sexual encounters were likely Carol testing her sexuality- am I attracted to Susan in a "wild straight woman who will eat another woman out to please her man" way or in a "Hey Carol, you're a lesbian" way. Like I said, it sucked for Ross and I'm not surprised he was hurt by it. But this wasn't Carol being a meany.

Edited August 7, 2017 by slf

[Crs97]

I think Carol clearly cheated on Ross, but I can only imagine the difficulty of coming to the realization, especially in those times, that you are gay.  I can also imagine that once you accept who you are and enter into a committed relationship with someone you love, you are giddy with joy.  What I cannot understand is that you and your new partner would decide it was okay to mock your old partner, the person you hurt extremely deeply.  I also don't understand why you would never think to  apologize to him ever for any pain you caused him. 

[Katy M]

Just now, slf said:

, we know, tried a threesome with Susan and Ross.

No, she did not. That happened in the collective "what if" dayrdeam.

[slf]

Just now, Katy M said:

No, she did not. That happened in the collective "what if" dayrdeam.

Truly? I could've sworn that was something that they did actually try during their marriage as well.

[BBHN]

It was definitely only during the what "what if" daydream.

[slf]

Just now, BBHN said:

It was definitely only during the what "what if" daydream.

Oh good. That makes it less sad then.