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S11.E16: Derek

thewhiteowl

By thewhiteowl
in Criminal Minds

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ForeverAlone

ForeverAlone

(edited)

So...my predictions for this episode were pretty much dead on. This was likely the first episode in Morgan's dramatic exit arc. Savannah is pregnant and now they are engaged. And this episode was pretty much all Morgan hallucinations and all torture. The team was barely there. The contrast with Revelations and Penelope is dramatic, because those two episodes had the team rallying around the injured team member, doing their job to save them/figure it all out. For this episode, they might not have even been there, since from what we saw, Morgan probably would have been able to pull the knife out of his hand, kill the final captor and drive himself to safety.

 

Yep, this was a parting gift for Shemar for over the top acting and story. and show that he is strong enough to withstand ignited white freaking phosphorous on his chest, only to break out of his binds, use one guy as a shield and kill pretty much every one else in the room. It was like this was some over the top action movie and not a cerebral psychological thriller. I mean, for freak's sake, some shadowy organization hired former, rogue British SAS wannabe CIA contractors to torture Morgan for some unknown reason (though we know Morgan will be searching for his abductors in episode 17). And for what? That was freaking RIDICULOUS!

 

My one nice thing to say: Thomas is a good director and has a good eye for visuals. It's too bad the story was ridiculous and over the top.

Edited by ForeverAlone
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PamB

PamB

I feel like I'm the only one that actually liked it......

I generally am most of the time these days haha.

No. I loved this episode. I don't mind being in the minority.

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ForeverAlone

ForeverAlone

I don't get it.

Granted, I was only half paying attention, but I have no idea why Derek was taken or how he was found.

Why he was taken is anybody's guess, and the press release for episode 17 said that Morgan would be looking for his abductors. Suffice it to say, it must be a very rich organization/individual who can afford to pay to have former CIA contractors/wannabe British SAS torture him. And I don't recall them even asking him for any information or stating a reason for all of this. I imagine it will be explored later, but I can't see any GOOD reason why someone would target a FBI agent for outlandish torture. 

 

And the team found him, because they had a trace on the satellite phones used by the torturers and when Morgan turned his phone on, they had his location to go rescue him.

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Danielg342

Danielg342

So basically the whole episode hinged on the team getting lucky, Morgan getting superhuman and his abductors becoming incapable at conveniently the right time for the writer.

 

Man, I can't wait for Episode 19 to come so I can decide if I'm going to watch this arc or not. Methinks I won't.

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Reghan

Reghan

Thomas Gibson did a fabulous job directing. This was a pretty episode to look at (If that makes any sense)....

 

I'm super pumped for episode 18! Matthew Gray Gubler directed and Kirsten+Erica written. I loved Nelson's Sparrow and I'm excited to see where they take this one.

 

This wasn't as good as I hoped, but it definitely wasn't bad...

 

I'm just sad that we have to wait till the 16th for episode 17. Enough with the waiting game....

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SSAHotchner

SSAHotchner

Overall, I didn't like it. 

What I liked:

Danny Glover (even though I still don't buy Morgan's dad appearing to him so much older than he was when he died)
The two actors who portrayed young Morgan.
Thomas' directing.
Reid being allowed to be a grown up again and taking out the unsub.
Savannah really is beautiful and her performance was believable and not over the top.
And, except for the torture, the beginning of the episode actually seemed like it was going to be all about profiling.

What I didn't like:

The whole premise, which I'm still not sure I even understand, of why these guys were after Morgan to begin with.
The torture.
Shemar's acting
Angel Garcia.
Not enough team profiling.
Thomas is too smart to have allowed all those palm trees in the flashbacks that were supposed to be Chicago.

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secnarf

secnarf

Why he was taken is anybody's guess, and the press release for episode 17 said that Morgan would be looking for his abductors. Suffice it to say, it must be a very rich organization/individual who can afford to pay to have former CIA contractors/wannabe British SAS torture him. And I don't recall them even asking him for any information or stating a reason for all of this. I imagine it will be explored later, but I can't see any GOOD reason why someone would target a FBI agent for outlandish torture. 

 

And the team found him, because they had a trace on the satellite phones used by the torturers and when Morgan turned his phone on, they had his location to go rescue him.

Thanks! I remembered tracking the satellite phone, I just didn't know how they knew they SHOULD be tracking the phone - it was through identifying the abductors, then?

One thing I did like, near the beginning of the episode Penelope and a few others (Hotch? JJ?) were in the room giving some exposition and Garcia was obviously upset, but kept it together and was pretty professional and efficient given the circumstances, and then when everybody else left and she was alone she let herself panic a bit. It felt realistic, as opposed to her usual OTT antics in front of everyone.

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autumnmountains

autumnmountains

I understand that this was (and possibly 1 of 3) Morgan's big episode. I certainly don't begrudge him of one, each team member and actor needs to have focus on themselves every so often. Add to the fact that he's most likely exiting the show, he deserves an episode or two. . .or three.

What I liked: Hmm. . .Danny Glover did a better job than of being Morgan's dream dad than I thought. The two child actors playing Morgan were superb- the youngest one did a fantastic job especially with the scene where Morgan's dad is gunned down. The older teen actor reacted very realistically to Carl Buford putting his hands on his shoulders signaling what had and probably to come of his abuse. I liked that Morgan thought of his teammates in turn about their reactions or what he thought about them and their friendship. The team did a realistic and wrenching scene during Morgan's dream when they were staring at his service picture. Speaking of which , in the dream (I know these technically aren't dreams, but they aren't true life either) right before that, where Reid and JJ find Morgan's dead body, MGG and AJ (particularly MGG as the camera seemed to focus on him more-and as Morgan and Reid have had that brother theme running throughout the series, it's apropos.) responded so well, it drew me in. I also liked that Reid got the kill shot-for the second time in two episodes, and both were protecting teammates.

What I didn't like: Shemar does a great job with physical scenes. That said, I don't think emotional scenes are his strength. His torment didn't ring at all true to me. I have to say, the two child actors playing Young Morgan, out acted Shemar, who isn't exactly a newbie with acting. I found myself rolling my eyes whenever he was being emotional. Also the obvious camera shots of his naked torso (showing off the heart monitor-why was that there anyways?) seemed to be more about showing Shemar's chiseled chest than anything else. I also didn't care for Garcia as an angel. That was over the top, even as a dream. Another point I have to raise my eyebrows, is directly after Morgan is tortured, he's able to pull off total annihilation? Ok, then. The last thing that I'll mention is was is really necessary to show Morgan digging through a dead man's stomach to retrieve a phone part? I get this show is violent, but ick!

I think I'll have to grade this episode C- or D+

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MMC

MMC

This episode is just another example of Erica and Breen once again failing to understand, or perhaps just not giving a damn, that CM is NOT the same type of show that Alias happened to be.

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ReidFan

ReidFan

I thought the torture stuff was way over the top and gratuitous. but that's me.

 

And is this weird? I thought the directing --stellar job by TG-- was way better than the acting by SM. Danny Glover was terrific, as were the two boys who played Young Morgan. 

 

other positives: Reid, with the kill shot, second week in a row. (are they setting him up to be the take down guy once Morgan leaves?)

writing was mostly good, couple nice humor moments to relieve the tension of all the torture ("I know dinner's ready when the smoke detector goes off" LOL) 

 

I'm assuming this one was Rossi-lite because Joe was doing prep for his upcoming directorial slot but it seemed really out of place to not have much of him :( And is it just me or is there little-to-no onscreen chemistry between Savannah and Derek. I just don't feel them.

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Guesswht

Guesswht

It was a good episode.. i mean it definitely didn't live up to the hype that they created about it but it wasn't 'bad'. I feel like Shemar and Morgan would deserve better.... but I don't get why it's getting such terrible reviews. It wasn't THAT bad.

Hopefully ep18 will be AMAZING. I still can't believe he's leaving :'(

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JMO

JMO

Fast-forwarded through torture/grimace scenes, but then went back and watched through, since so many other fans seemed to have survived it.

 

Firstly, I’m glad for Shemar, because I think he enjoys this type of entertainment.  So I’m glad he got to star in it, and I’m glad for anyone else who found it enjoyable.  If I were a diehard Shemar fan, I think I’d probably have been very happy.

 

But I’m more a fan of Morgan, the character, and never more so than when I’m reminded that he is the owner of a hefty brain in addition to his brawn.  I would have much preferred to see him solve an intricate puzzle, to watching him sustain gratuitous torture and dissociation.  The little homage to profiling at the beginning of his time with his father looked promising, but it went nowhere.  He saved himself with improbable physical strength, not with his MIND.

 

I am a fan of TG’s style of directing (MGG’s too, but so very different).  He allows a well-written story to tell itself, as in The Night Watch.  But this was not one of those stories, and I felt like his talents as a director were stifled by the convoluted storyline.  Nonetheless, there were some great transition and cut-away scenes. 

 

There were highlights and lowlights throughout.  Shemar did well with the scenes with his father, but nowhere near as well as he did in ‘Profiler, Profiled’.  Others of the ‘dissociation’ scenes were not as successful.  Danny Glover is always good, but I didn’t think he had quality material to work with.

 

Beyond that, I’m left to ponder:

 

Torture is used as an interrogation technique.  Where were the questions?  Even the guy who arrived at the end was prepared to kill Morgan without interrogating him.

 

Making me wonder.  Is Morgan not the actual target, but rather a tool?  Were they trying to get at someone else via the gratuitous torture of Morgan?

 

Where and how did Morgan learn to dissociate? And how did he remain in a dissociative state while he was moving around?

 

Why did that one guy spill his guts (verbally, before physically) to Morgan?  Why tell him anything? It wasn’t exactly a deathbed confession, because he proceeded to swallow the SIM card to thwart Morgan’s attempt at escape.

 

Is Reid the new marksman on the team? He didn’t just happen to take the kill shot, he was the one Hotch sent through the door first.

 

Why didn’t the white phosphorous eviscerate Morgan?

 

Why did the paramedics zap him when he had (audibly) a perfectly good heart rate?  For a second, I thought they might have been in on it, because they were the ones who made him flatline.  I kind of hoped they were, because it would have made a great cliffhanger.

 

Overall, not a disaster, but not one I'll watch again, even if it is part of an arc.  But, since Shemar obviously enjoyed it, I'm glad----he deserves a going away present.  I'll miss Morgan.  

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smoker

smoker

(edited)

there are positive and negative comments, I've watched it in a rush, but as other people have pointed out, I don't know why Morgan was involved in this plot. Maybe we'll find out in the next episode. I have no problem with Morgan getting retired and being happy forever and ever, actually I'm crossing fingers for Savannah. 

 

there is a lot of recycling, but in the bad way, abduction, torture, delirium, a chat with a dead father. Too much action hero, I would swallow it better with more team/profiling scenes. One thing, I don't think it's worse than last week episode.

 

Although it's always a pleasure watching Danny Glover, and he did mark the tone of their scenes (thanks God), I am not sure about the age of the character if he was alive only in Morgan's head. And I don't know why I thought they would be walking when his father was murdered, but that is just how I envisioned it.

I think the actress playing Savannah did a great job, a lot better than KV. And kids did great too.

if Reid being a point man is the new style I don't like it, it's not him, of course he can do it if there is none else handy, but being the new Morgan? please don't go there.

 

Episodes like Penelope; JJ; nameless,faceless or 100 where ok. Actually, I like JJ (6x02), it was a beautiful farewell with a lot of profiling and a lot of JJ and the team.

 

But Messer did it again, and this is Alias 2.0, I won't say this storyline it's worst than Prentiss superspy past  or JJ superwhatever, because all of them have the same problem, bad writing and falling apart of the tone of the show. I mean, when I look for first division violence I watch Banshe, I watch CM for other reasons. 

 

I would like to say something good about the director, but my eye isn't the best when I'm not enjoying the story, I'm glad most of the comments said it was ok, tho

Edited by smoker
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Setra

Setra

When Morgan's kidnapper said "I want him naked." I cannot be the only one who yelled at the TV "So do I!" False advertising, show!

Hand waving in air shouting "Me too!!!".

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Racbec

Racbec

My biggest problem with this episode was one that has been mentioned by several others.  I couldn't get over Danny Glover playing Morgan's dad.  Glover was good, but it bothered me throughout the show.  Why would his subconscious picture him as an old man?  I assume Glover was available and it just was too much for TPTB to pass up.  

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Bookish Jen

Bookish Jen

(edited)

Right now my brain is buzzing to much too make a coherent post about last night's episode. Many of you have brought up some very salient points, which I need to ponder once I get a chance.

 

That being said, it is not surprising I found the torture porn beyond disgusting. Plus, I wished there was more focus on the brains of Criminal Minds rather than the brawn, which drew me to this show to begin with. In other words....

 

#CriminalMINDSmatter

Edited by Bookish Jen
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NYGirl

NYGirl

I haven't seen this episode nor have I watched CM for awhile. I just want to know if criminals target the FBI and their families as much as they do on this show.  It's ridiculous.

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ForeverAlone

ForeverAlone

I haven't seen this episode nor have I watched CM for awhile. I just want to know if criminals target the FBI and their families as much as they do on this show.  It's ridiculous.

In a word, no, they don't. And they are certainly not targeted by some rich, shadowy organizations or individuals who pay  trained killers a lot of money to torture them either. 

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SSAHotchner

SSAHotchner

My biggest problem with this episode was one that has been mentioned by several others.  I couldn't get over Danny Glover playing Morgan's dad.  Glover was good, but it bothered me throughout the show.  Why would his subconscious picture him as an old man?  I assume Glover was available and it just was too much for TPTB to pass up.  

That was my take on why they did it. And he was great. I also don't credit these writers with being able to come up with a better character for Danny to play if they were to use him in another episode. 

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wknt3

wknt3

(edited)

This episode is a perfect example of what this show has become. Some great performances, superb execution on just about all the technical aspects, and all of it undermined by writing that replaces profiling with torture porn and over the top action and misses opportunity after opportunity. I was really hoping that ridiculous fight scene followed by the rescue was setting up a cliffhanger where it turned out to be another fantasy, but no it's the actual plot. Sigh. And of course it there was just about no profiling or even acknowledging the lack thereof. It was an enjoyable episode that could have been so much more.

Edited by wknt3
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needschocolate

needschocolate

So...my predictions for this episode were pretty much dead on. This was likely the first episode in Morgan's dramatic exit arc. Savannah is pregnant and now they are engaged. And this episode was pretty much all Morgan hallucinations and all torture. The team was barely there. The contrast with Revelations and Penelope is dramatic, because those two episodes had the team rallying around the injured team member, doing their job to save them/figure it all out. For this episode, they might not have even been there, since from what we saw, Morgan probably would have been able to pull the knife out of his hand, kill the final captor and drive himself to safety.

 

And Morgan shirtless and, as you mentioned, being a badass who can single-handedly take down a bunch of professional killers even after he was tortured.  Not much story behind it, and definitely not much profiling, but maybe that comes next week.  It is like the writers sat around and had this conversation -

 

"We need to give Morgan a good story, but we have to make sure that he has a chance to show off what a great fighter/killer he is."

 

"But it is also important that we have him shirtless for most of the episode - don't want all the time he spends in the gym to go to waste. "

 

"Well, that is an easy one -  let's have him be tortured by a bunch of big burly guys and then he takes them down."  

 

"Cool.  But why would they be torturing him in the first place?"

 

"So we can have him be shirtless - aren't you paying attention?"

 

"Yes I am, I meant what reason for it for the plot?"

 

"It's torture porn and Morgan shirtless! Who cares about plot?  Nobody will notice"

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Danielg342

Danielg342

"Yes I am, I meant what reason for it for the plot?"

"It's torture porn and Morgan shirtless! Who cares about plot? Nobody will notice"

LOL. I love it. It doesn't make sense to me that burly presumably heterosexual men would want Morgan naked. If they were gay or women (preferably sexy ones :p) I could buy it.

Of course, it's still meaningless exploitation, so it's not much of an improvement.

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ForeverAlone

ForeverAlone

While I can buy that Morgan was able to dissociate a bit from surviving his childhood abuse, I do give some side eye to the level of dissociation he was able to achieve in this episode. He was withstanding a level of physical torture that was extreme, and you typically need actual training to withstand (e.g. military special ops training).

And the conversation from above sounds like it was taken straight from the writers room when they were breaking this story. :) :) :)

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tobeyoungagain

tobeyoungagain

I really hope Morgan doesn't leave the show ... the different people coming in and out really changes the dynamics of a show.  It's like when Stabler left Law and Order SVU ... the show was totally different after that.  It was more focused about Olivia ... and the little people.  Not a fan of changes.  Sigh.

 

Morgan good looking but just like I don't get why Paget left, I can't understand why he would.  BTW is grandfather the show with John Stamos?  Is it even good and will last the season?

 

Thomas Gibson did a fabulous job directing. This was a pretty episode to look at (If that makes any sense)....

 

I'm super pumped for episode 18! Matthew Gray Gubler directed and Kirsten+Erica written. I loved Nelson's Sparrow and I'm excited to see where they take this one.

 

This wasn't as good as I hoped, but it definitely wasn't bad...

 

I'm just sad that we have to wait till the 16th for episode 17. Enough with the waiting game....


Yeah ... if Morgan's dad died, how is it possible he aged?  That doesn't even make sense considering the whole thing about the body being just a physical vessel for the spirit. 

Reid - didn't he barely pass the physical and shooting tests to get into the FBI?  And yet from across the room, he managed to have all his shots hit the guy square in the bulls-eye.  I don't buy it.  I would have bought it if he shot and it went everywhere BUT the body

Savannah - isn't she on Mistresses?  She's beautiful but not a lot of depth in her acting...

 

Overall, I didn't like it. 

What I liked:

Danny Glover (even though I still don't buy Morgan's dad appearing to him so much older than he was when he died)
The two actors who portrayed young Morgan.
Thomas' directing.
Reid being allowed to be a grown up again and taking out the unsub.
Savannah really is beautiful and her performance was believable and not over the top.
And, except for the torture, the beginning of the episode actually seemed like it was going to be all about profiling.

What I didn't like:

The whole premise, which I'm still not sure I even understand, of why these guys were after Morgan to begin with.
The torture.
Shemar's acting
Angel Garcia.
Not enough team profiling.
Thomas is too smart to have allowed all those palm trees in the flashbacks that were supposed to be Chicago.

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ForeverAlone

ForeverAlone

Shemar has mentioned in the past that 10 years on this show was enough for him. I can see why he would want to move on. Sure the money is great and the job is stable (for now), but people do get bored in their jobs at times and want to move on and try new things. In this industry, he has a fairly limited window to try and capitalize on it.

 

I agree about wondering why Morgan's father would be aged? Part of me wonders if they always intended to do that, or if they realized Danny Glover was a fan and wanted to get a meaty role for him. But no, you would think if Morgan was looking for his dead father for spiritual guidance, he would imagine him as he remembered him and not some older man he doesn't even recognize. 

 

As for Reid and his markmanship. His issues with shooting were in the early parts of season one and he has improved significantly since then, and has taken a number of kill shots. Unlike most people, the fact that he got the kill shot in this episode doesn't excite me in the slightest. But that is because I don't watch this show for the kill shots. Sure, there have been some memorable ones, but I care more about the psychological aspects that lead up to the kill shot. Plus, I like Reid more for his brain and not his marksmanship, so I would rather have him be the super genius than the muscle. But it seems to be easier for these writers to write action rather than thoughtful profiling.

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secnarf

secnarf

Re: Morgan imagining his father older, my siblings died fairly young and when I think of them now, or if they show up in my dreams, I tend to imagine them as if they had aged. I can't really explain why, it's just what happens, so I didn't really think twice about Morgan hallucinating an aged version of his father.

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normasm

normasm

(edited)

The point about Morgan's dad being older, for me is, he should have recognized him, because his brain was aging his memory. If he had gone up to "Hank" the first time and said, "....Dad?" and Hank had said something on the order of, "I'm still living in your memory, so this is what I look like now, son," I would have liked it better.

Edited by normasm
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YoureSoUrban

YoureSoUrban

I could have sworn that when Danny Glover first appeared, Morgan didn't know who he was. And I was super confused because even if his dad had aged, Morgan would recognize his own father. I've unfortunately erased the ep and can't check it again.

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Calamity Jane

Calamity Jane

While I can buy that Morgan was able to dissociate a bit from surviving his childhood abuse, I do give some side eye to the level of dissociation he was able to achieve in this episode. He was withstanding a level of physical torture that was extreme, and you typically need actual training to withstand (e.g. military special ops training).

And the conversation from above sounds like it was taken straight from the writers room when they were breaking this story. :) :) :)

Little sidelight - I taught with a woman whose last job had been training soldiers to withstand torture and interrogation.  Intense!  

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Droogie

Droogie

(edited)

So, I just watched this again, paid closer attention, since I'm not as tired as I was the first time. My opinion is a bit different from the opinion I had during the first watch...

Shemar's emoting didn't strike me as cold as the first run-through. I thought he did OK with what he was given. Maybe not as well as Gibson or Gubler might have done with similar material, but it was compelling.

Whoever it is who plays Savannah did a great job and I forgave her her screen time, which leads me to...

...there just wasn't nearly enough "team." I love a centric episode (even if it's not Reid) if the team is well-represented. I couldn't tie in the team figuring out Derek's location to his actual rescue -- it was quite disjointed to me.

I could go on and on, comment about how I liked Reid and his reactions and the fact that he was the one who bagged the Unsub, and even give kudos to Garcia's "Angel" scene, because it was cute -- and an overall shout-out to Thomas Gibson, who really did a great job. Points deducted for the contrived soap opera ending, though.

If this is Shemar's exit arc, and I'm 99.9% certain it is, it's not half bad. I'll admit I'm not completely enthused to see how Joe Mantegna interprets his script in the next episode -- but I do look forward to seeing what KV and MGG produce together in 11.18.

Edited by Droogie
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Droogie

Droogie

I for one would hate for anyone to point fingers at Hotch -- I believe he is only too aware of his shortcomings where his family was concerned. That, and he and Morgan have different roles in the BAU. I think Hotch felt a responsibility to the team (misguided or not) that Morgan will come to understand he himself does not share.

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Snow Apple

Snow Apple

It's easy for Derek to quit and become Mr. Mom or take a desk job if SM is leaving the show, unlike TG who is still on a show about criminals and I, for one, don't want to watch Hotch (or any of them, even Derek if he's still on the show) pushing papers.

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smoker

smoker

(edited)

Well, if Derek quit, hopefully someone turns to Hotch and says “see that’s what a man does to keep his family together … choose them instead of a job!”

 

poor Hotch, I'm not repeating myself again, just because I want to fool myself about having my Hotchner obsession under control xD

so I not going to justify Hotch, I am goint to refresh every time Morgan was a toxic influence for Hotch.

In season 2, episode "the last word". Morgan was hammering Hotch about calling Haley, even when it was evident Hotch was torn apart between the love for his family and doing the right thing. Not only it was illegal, it was immoral, as Hotch himself told JJ when she wanted to reach Will in a similiar situation. And I think, it was evident Hotch faked that call so Morgan shut his mouth up.

 

The episode where Haley and Hotch broke up, I didn't feel any emphaty coming from Morgan. He said to Hotch he didn't want him as a friend, just as a boss to rule the team.

 

When Hotch was back after Foyet's attack, Morgan didn't stop whining at every opportunity about how it was too soon and he criticized Hotch when he run after an unsub "without" back up... seriously?!

 

After Haley was murdered Morgan was the one on the team who thought he HAD TO COME BACK to the BAU because that's who he was. 

 

In season 9 premiere, He told Rossi Hotch wouldn't leave the BAU, after all "sitting was the new smoking".

 

Reid said something too, but it was more an opinion or complain while Morgan was making a statement.

 

I don't think Morgan ever thought of Jack while he was ill advising Hotch, I think he was thinking about his career. And now, everybody is going to give him a pat on his back like he is the best of the guys :(

 

That last scene with Savannah, not only it was a soapy scene, the whole situation reminds me of a couple of scenes from SOA.

In season 1 or 2 (I don't want to spoil anything) Oppie thinks leaving the club is the best for his family, but Jax gives him a lot of reasons to stay, the club is his true family after all. A few seasons later, Jax wants to leave the club for his family and Oppie confronts him about his hypocrisy.

The sad thing is nobody is going to confront Morgan about being such a hypocrite.

Edited by smoker
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