S08.E13: And Justice For All

[WendyCR72]

Beckett and the 12th Precinct look into the murder of an English as a Second Language student. But when the victim's class won't talk to the police, Castle goes undercover as a French-Canadian immigrant and learns that the victim was more than he seemed.

[FlickerToAFlame]

Was Castle's comment about the fan letters ("government conspiracies...nothing very inventive") a shot at MilMar's explanation of Castle's disappearance? Was the explanation even a government conspiracy, I don't remember?

I liked tonight's episode. Didn't need to know what food goes right through Castle though.

Alexis is now a licensed teacher too!

[KaveDweller]

When the ABC announcer said Castle was next he said, "Unbelievable drama on it's way." I can't remember if that's what he usually says, but it made me laugh.

 

What cheap-imitation of word software does Castle use to write? Is it that expensive to show Microsoft Word on screen?

 

A pit of snakes? Did they really have to show the whole pit of snakes? And the lizards? I would rather watch Alexis and Vikram have a hackathon than have to look at a pit of snakes.

 

How come when Perlemutter is the ME he gets to have good lines and actual conversation, while the series regular hasn't talked to her BFF Beckett about her marriage all season?

 

Of course Alexis is taking over teaching an ESL class.  Why wouldn't she? (I actually know a lot of people who got a job teaching English as a second language overseas right out of college, so I guess it's not so unrealistic, but it still is annoying to see her just fall into another job. No one else in New York is looking for work as a teacher?). And her blazer in that scene was really ugly.

 

So they were obviously making some kind of political commentary about immigration, but I could have done without Martha's heavy-handed speech at the end.  Not because of what she said, it was just too over the top.

 

I thought the case was a little dull, but I did like that Castle used is language skills to figure out the text and wasn't just randomly going undercover for no reason. However, I am so tired of the, "The NYPD can't do that, but Richard Castle can." He's essential acting as a cop in those scenes.  I'm glad they were called on that by the FBI guy.  And of course he knew Castle was her husband right away.

 

I liked Beckett's scenes with the FBI agent. People have been talking about her being unbelievable as a "badass," but I thought she was good at standing her ground with him. She sounded like a realistically tough Captain.

 

I thought the Caskett chemistry was good in the scenes they had together. I would have liked to see them talk more about his flashback, but they probably didn't want to get to into that this week. It would have been nice if Beckett had just been all, "I'll absolutely go to Korea with no plan and figure things out," just to show her being supportive. But I guess that would have been out of character, and she was still supportive.  And right, since he evidently wasn't in Korea.

Edited March 1, 2016 by KaveDweller

[turnitwayup]

The case wasn't half bad. Haley was useful for once being an interpreter and part of the undercover sting with the esl students. Alexis getting the esl teaching job would've been a great idea at the beginning of the season. This COTW should've been place in the 1st 5 eps. They weren't as shoehorned in as much as other eps. Luke manages to out did himself on finding the ugliest skirt suit for Alexis. It seriously looked a middle aged corporate executive wear trying to be trendy. The biggest mystery of the show is how does Luke still have this job.

 

Perlmutter of course is happy about the "separation". I hope he shows up again toward the end and finds out it was a fake separation. That was hilarious that he's a twin and tries to set Beckett up with his brother. They really have given up on Lanie being the bff. Everyone main cast member makes an appearance and Tamala gets her 8 days off.

 

So Perlmutter and Caskett's closest family and friends are only ones buying the dumb ass ruse? Possibly Vikram too, but FBI agent wasn't. It's like TBTP can't even keep anything straight cause nothing makes any sense. Castle's disappearance storyline might not be the worst thing on the show anymore. It seems like they're taking the crappy Sleeper resolution and now expanding on it. Triggering a memory using food is a good idea, except this should've been played over several eps last season.

 

I see Nathan Jon, Seamus and Toks are gonna try to live tweet the West Coast since they didn't make it home in time for East Coast airing. Kinda enthusiastic to be doing 3 straight weeks in a row. it seems like Nathan is gonna try for East Coast airing next week too.

[shapeshifter]

So does this mean Alexis won't be working at the detective agency anymore?

[newyawk]

So does this mean Alexis won't be working at the detective agency anymore?

 

One can only hope.

 

Pro for this episode: Perlmutter is back!

 

Con: I instantly knew who the killer would be as soon as he appeared on screen. That isn't good, I usually am not one of those that can tell so easily.

 

I guess it's interesting that they are re-opening "the solved" mystery of Castle's disappearance. But is that just because they don't know how to establish a new major storyline?

[verdana]

Of course Alexis is taking over teaching an ESL class.  Why wouldn't she? (I actually know a lot of people who got a job teaching English as a second language overseas right out of college, so I guess it's not so unrealistic, but it still is annoying to see her just fall into another job. No one else in New York is looking for work as a teacher?). And her blazer in that scene was really ugly.

Don't you need some kind of basic qualifications for that? I've always been curious when I hear about people doing this. I find it difficult to believe that someone just turns up somewhere and goes "hi I'll teach you guys some English" and they get put in charge of a room full of people, if it was that easy why bother getting qualified to teach? What stage exactly is she at with her college education any way? I'm confused. Seems she's still taking classes but in what exactly? I still have no idea they can't be bothered to fill the audience in on that.

It's yet another thing to add to her weekly list of credentials, computer hacker, PI now part time teacher. They really need to stop because it's getting ridiculous. Of course she's smart but to be this adept so quickly at so many things with apparently minimal knowledge or training at her age is irritating, guess Castle bred a genius.

Edited March 1, 2016 by verdana

[newyawk]

 

So they were obviously making some kind of political commentary about immigration, but I could have done without Martha's heavy-handed speech at the end.  Not because of what she said, it was just too over the top.

 

 

Exactly. It isn't that I disagreed with the sentiment, but I really prefer my Castle-viewing (and all my viewing, really) to be agenda free.

[verdana]

I guess it's interesting that they are re-opening "the solved" mystery of Castle's disappearance. But is that just because they don't know how to establish a new major storyline?

It's that and because Hawley thought he could do better than Marlowe and Amann in giving this story a satisfying ending, since the overwhelming consensus last season was that the resolution in Sleeper was confusing and a huge let down. He seems to have a bug up his arse about Marlowe in some way, could be wrong but that's the distinct impression I get.

They should have left well alone, I fear any further expansion on the story is not going to make things better.

As for Alexis I doubt she's going to stick at doing this teaching job but I wish she would, anything to get her out of the seedy PI business where she doesn't belong.

[femmefan1946]

Con: I instantly knew who the killer would be as soon as he appeared on screen. That isn't good, I usually am not one of those that can tell so easily.

It was Minute 9 on my clock. A few minutes earlier than usual.

 

When Martha made her speech, I was wondering if this had been written as a Thanksgiving episode.

 

One of my (many) nephews is an ESL teacher. He needed a diploma in Education, and a Province of Ontario teaching certificate, to be hired to go to Japan to teach. Back in Canada, he teaches at a private academy for secondary-age students mostly Korean and Japanese.

There are so many trained and certified teachers around, there would be no reason for the school to hire outside those ranks. Unless the school was also uncertified.

[turnitwayup]

Nathan thinks Jon fell asleep so he didn't live tweet, but Tamala chimed in with something about Caskett. Toks ended up at Nathan's house to do the live tweet. Maybe Summer will live tweet next week with Nathan. Tweet of the night comes from Seamus.
 

seamusdever: I think Alexis just came from her Matador class. @MollyQuinn93

 
 

Don't you need some kind of basic qualifications for that? I've always been curious when I hear about people doing this. I find it difficult to believe that someone just turns up somewhere and goes "hi I'll teach you guys some English" and they get put in charge of a room full of people, if it was that easy why bother getting qualified to teach? What stage exactly is she at with her college education any way? I'm confused. Seems she's still taking classes but in what exactly? I still have no idea they can't be bothered to fill the audience in on that.

It's yet another thing to add to her weekly list of credentials, computer hacker, PI now part time teacher. They really need to stop because it's getting ridiculous. Of course she's smart but to be this adept so quickly at so many things with apparently minimal knowledge or training at her age is irritating, guess Castle bred a genius.

 
According to this site, it's a minimum of a bachelor's degree to be able to teach esl. It also says you need a teacher's license which I don't know when Alexis had time to study and take the exam cause it seems like she spends most of her time at the PI office. She suppose to be in her senior year, so she hasn't even gotten her bachelors. Unless she majoring in Education which Columbia actually has, it really doesn't make any sense why she's randomly teaching esl. They just don't know what to do with undergrad Alexis and instead are trying to write a mid 20s to late 20s Alexis.

[verdana]

Thanks femmefan1946 and turnitwayup for the information. 

 

I'm not against individuals being good at doing a number of things, it's just for what they're writing her doing she's way to young and since they can't press the fast forward and make her older (although they've managed it with her horribly ageing wardrobe) they're lost, they need to fit her into the show but don't know how in a truly organic way. 

 

Nathan thinks Jon fell asleep so he didn't live tweet, but Tamala chimed in with something about Caskett.

 

She has to chime in about Caskett poor woman she can hardly talk about her own appearance. I bet it was fleeting as usual lol.

 

Seamus is on a roll with his tweets he made a good one last week - also about Alexis lol.

Edited March 1, 2016 by verdana

[madmaverick]

I liked the theme of the episode about immigration, and actually appreciated the heavy handed speech, for once, by Martha there at the end because it's an especially timely and important message in this current political climate.  But I found the COTW a bit boring and my attention wandered early on....distracted by the especially ugly wardrobe in this episode.  I did like the Castle as undercover ESL student stuff, and the students getting a little bit to do with the COTW and being there after the crime was solved.  The man in the snake pit was a creative crime scene but they could have made more of it.

 

I have missed Perlmutter, but like with many things on the show, I preferred it when they went the more subtle route with the Castle dislike as they did in earlier years. The subtle shading, the occasional zinger.  Now I feel they've gone too over the top with Perlmutter.  It's become too one tone and one dimensional.  Too worked up about Castle.  I thought of Perlmutter as just not a people person in general, impatient and annoyed by someone like Castle, but not so invested to see him as some nemesis or something.  I hope we don't find out that his Castle dislike is due to a secret crush on Beckett and he's his own secret twin or anything like that.  (Still a bit strange to think of Arye Gross playing a character who once dated Rachel on Friends.)

 

Jean Luc's accent was fun and not inaccurate to my ears.  The scarf however was not fun.  Why, Luke, why?  Why would a French Canadian be wearing a scarf with an ugly as hell shirt?  I don't think the hot Canadian PM would be caught dead in something like that.  But there's really no accounting for taste as I see someone tweet Nathan that it was the sexiest thing on Castle!  And Nathan thanked Luke for it. ;)

 

I did laugh at that bit of comedy when Castle swung his leather jacket around and Ryan and Esposito had to duck to avoid being hit in the face.  And Castle's face when he was 'shot' made me laugh.  Toks was good in that scene with the judge and the accent.

 

Beckett was her competent Capt. self though I found the FBI stuff boring.  Could have used a bit of Caskett banter in the episode.  More sexy accent roleplay and fonting.  Yes, I did look to see which font Castle uses.

 

And her blazer in that scene was really ugly.

Luke manages to out did himself on finding the ugliest skirt suit for Alexis. It seriously looked a middle aged corporate executive wear trying to be trendy. The biggest mystery of the show is how does Luke still have this job.

Eyesore no. 1 for me was Castle's ugly, old man patterned shirt.  Ugh.  Ugly shirt complemented by ugly scarf.  What is it, the 70s look?  Stick to plain button downs please if the alternative is this.  So glad when it was finally a new day halfway through the episode and he could stop wearing it!  It was distracting me from the Caskett.

 

Eyesore no. 2 was definitely Alexis' blazer.  I don't mind her black suit office attire so much because I had to wear that in formal internship environments too, but that pink blazer at the end!  Looks like it came out of Martha's wardrobe.  Is that what Luke's going for?  Seriously, have no idea what he's going for with his choices?  For half the episode, Esposito wore a Capt. Kirk sweater.  The next day he wears a sharp suit with a red shirt.  Vikram suddenly wears a sharp suit and shirt as well.  Castle wears a horrible shirt with a horrible scarf as an undercover ESL student for some reason.  Don't get that reasoning at all.  And I don't see how his horrible colour palate complemented Beckett's suit and blouse.  

 

The biggest mystery is how Luke gets to keep his job and how his actors all seem to think he's doing a great job!

 

How come when Perlemutter is the ME he gets to have good lines and actual conversation, while the series regular hasn't talked to her BFF Beckett about her marriage all season?

 

Perlmutter, Hayley, a whole bunch of guest stars have gotten more to do on the show than Lanie.  You either feel bad for Tamala or feel good for her that she's getting a good paycheck for 8 years from having almost nothing to do. ;)

 

Don't you need some kind of basic qualifications for that? I've always been curious when I hear about people doing this. I find it difficult to believe that someone just turns up somewhere and goes "hi I'll teach you guys some English" and they get put in charge of a room full of people, if it was that easy why bother getting qualified to teach?

I think it can depend on what kind of organisation it is.  For an actual school, for sure you'd need proper qualifications and there is an accreditation course.  For a good school, you'd need more than that.  But if it's just a privately run language school, then maybe qualifications can vary.  In my opinion, just because someone is a native English speaker does not make them qualified to teach English to a certain level.  You look around the internet and so many native English speakers who still get 'you're' and 'your' mixed up (pet peeve!!) and have atrocious spelling and grammar, it's scary.  A lot of the ESL teachers who go abroad to teach English just do it for the money and a gap year abroad, and wouldn't be qualified to teach English in their home countries, so ESL students don't always get the most skilled English teachers. It depends.

 

Alexis does seem to me to be someone who would be capable though.  She used to read through Castle's manuscripts, probably went to great schools, and she speaks the English language properly. ;)

 

Nathan Fillion ‏@NathanFillion  1h1 hour ago

“Don’t you remember (exposition exposition exposition)”

 

Heh. ;)  The actors and the audience have had to suffer through so much exposition.  It can really be a chore.

 

As for what they plan to do with Castle's disappearance, let's just hope they can't do worse than Sleeper.  That's impossible, right? ;)  I hope they don't get that Korean and Japanese and Chinese stuff mixed up.  That would be annoying.   Surprised they didn't feature Summer Glau and the other named actor in the promo.

 

seamusdever: I think Alexis just came from her Matador class. @MollyQuinn93

 

Oh burn, Luke. 

Edited March 1, 2016 by madmaverick

[madmaverick]

Seamus Dever ‏@seamusdever  2h2 hours ago

Hey Ryan, why didn't you get closer before you yelled his name in that alley. That was stupid.

 

 Yes, yes it was.  Not the first time the cops have done that on the show.

[madmaverick]

I did enjoy the Caskett morgue scene.  They've still got it.  Got to go with Castle here and say 'no' to kissing in front of a dead body.  Cute that Stana did that thing where she looks at Nathan's mouth again.  And I also liked Beckett's reaction to the drawing of E.T. probing, um, Castle, which I kind of want to see now heh.

 

Castle handing a mug of coffee to Beckett in the break room was a nice moment.  I think that was possibly an adlib by Nathan.

 

Finally the drums got played.  But who plays drums at home in a button down, Luke?

 

I would love to see an episode with Caskett on vacation again and kissing in a new country, but we'll never get it.

[CastleSeason8]

It was okay. Yet another episode I wont be rewatching - so that makes all of S8 so far. I cant get past how smug Molly plays Alexis, it drives me batty. Hayley and Vikram just annoy me every time they have screen time. Not feeling the love for any Caskett scene, but have to remind myself at least they are together now. I wish they would tone down the Perlmutter hate, and make it more subtle like it was in earlier seasons (but subtle is lost this season completely). I thought the whole 'fake out the FBI' chase scene was stupid. Just another average ep, and not looking forward to revisiting the lost months. I hardly think these showrunners can handle it in a way that will satisfy.

[MDL]

Shallow comment /question: Is Alexis hair style (not the color) shorter than it was earlier this season? Or was it just "up(?)" more?

Either way, I liked it a bit more than earlier.

[TWP]

Morgue scene..I thought withholding the kiss was a little bit of passive aggressive retaliation for Beckett refusing to let Castle work the case...something that I liked about it. So dumb when the only people in the dark on the relationship are the super special detectives and secret but friendly spies. I'm pretty sure the person who comes once a week to water precinct plants even knows the couple is still together.

The who knows and who doesn't know would make a great SNL skit....So ripe for satire.

Edited March 1, 2016 by TWP

[Driad]

Are we sure that Rick is Alexis's father?  Alexis has so many talents, I sometimes wonder if her mother knew Professor Fighter Pilot Diplomat Spymaster Arm Candy from "Madam Secretary."  (Just kidding, Rick has talents too, even though we may not see them often.)

[AnnaMayWong]

I must say that when I watch British programming wherein Geordie is spoken, it is a must to use 'closed captions' .

[madmaverick]

Shallow comment /question: Is Alexis hair style (not the color) shorter than it was earlier this season? Or was it just "up(?)" more?

Either way, I liked it a bit more than earlier.

 

I think she had a big chop some time ago, but I'm not sure if it's any shorter than it was.  Her new hair colour is a bit distracting though.  I keep thinking of Mary Jane.  Preferred her old, more subtle shade.

 

Morgue scene..I thought withholding the kiss was a little bit of passive aggressive retaliation for Beckett refusing to let Castle work the case...something that I liked about it.

 

I didn't see any passive aggressiveness there.  I wouldn't want to kiss next to a dead body either.  And Castle has his quirks, like he didn't want to make out with Beckett before the curse was over in that previous bucket list episode.  Beckett does so much of the decision making for the relationship, and Castle is always so eager to please, I didn't mind a playful refusal once in a while to even things out.

[verdana]

The biggest mystery is how Luke gets to keep his job and how his actors all seem to think he's doing a great job!

I note Luke was livetweeting his thoughts on the fashion at the Oscars, I thought one tweet was a bit rich considering on the actual show he's employed on the severe fashion transgressions being committed at roughly the same time by criticising a costume designer and saying she should know better, yeah well so should he!

 

Castle Recap: Using Your Noodles at TV Line

[oberon55]

Just some random thoughts

 

Still can't stand Vikrum.

 

The judge must be one of the stupidest criminals ever if he couldn't spot the herd of ear wig wearing FBI agents following him around from 2 feet away.

 

I like strong Beckett (standing her ground against the FBI) much better than badass Beckett (self-sowing her own wounds).

 

If they took out Castle's line about LokSat I would have hardly known they were fake broken up.

 

Add another outside person who can see through the breakup bullshit & connect Beckett to Castle.

[verdana]

Castle: And Justice for All – A Good Cop Review (the bad cop is away on assignment)

 

And now he’s having flashbacks from the time he went missing way back when? Are we really going to have to revisit that craziness again? Ack! Of course, the explanation of what happened during that time left a lot to be desired, but I’d rather they simply dropped it and forgot it ever happened

 

She's not the only one, given what they've already done this season with Castle and Beckett, revisiting this story again seems a foolish idea. 

[basiltherat]

I may not be paying attention, but is it possible that "locksat" is responsible for Rick's kidnapping?

Ah, a speech about the wonder of immigrants aired the day before Trump sews up the nomination. Hollywood is SOOO subtle!

[KaveDweller]

I may not be paying attention, but is it possible that "locksat" is responsible for Rick's kidnapping?Ah, a speech about the wonder of immigrants aired the day before Trump sews up the nomination. Hollywood is SOOO subtle!

Locksat is probably responsible for Castle's kidnapping, global warming, World War II, racism at the Oscars, and the crappy ratings this season.

I'm just glad this show doesn't get enough viewers that Trump would hear about the immigration lecture and feel the need to comment on it.

[371012]

KaveDweller, especially Loksat has affected the crappy ratings! I felt like with a fair amount of suspended disbelief it was a pleasant enough hour of entertainment.

[Cyranetta]

 

So does this mean Alexis won't be working at the detective agency anymore?

 

Alexis has become so hypercompetent that she's likely to be running the precinct as well as the detective agency while teaching ESL on the side. People used to be annoyed at how Beckett had what seemed to be too many accomplishments and interests, but at least she had a span of years in which to acquire them. Alexis  sprouts them like mushrooms - overnight and seemingly in the dark.

 

One thing I did enjoy about the ep, even though it was highly unbelievable, was Castle's running a scheme with the ESL class members as participants, because at least it harked back to the "I know a guy" days. Who knows, maybe the class members will become part of his regular stable of Sherlock-like Irregulars (shepherded by Alexis, of course <sigh>).

[TWP]

Finally got to see the whole episode. I loved it, a nice light joy ride.

Esposito's tight-fitting mustard-colored sweater made me think of Captain Kirk from original Star Trek.

I love Perlmutter. Maybe his brother's problem in love stem from people mistaking him for coroner Perlmutter.

The diversions to waylay the judge were fun.

The case was silly. The FBI investigation was silly.

The ending was weird without Beckett. I hope they wrap up Castle's disappearance next week. I think it will be tied to Loksat, but they'll only get clues about it next week.

Love Molly's hairstyle. The color is odd for me.

Toks needs to be written out. Vikram too.

[verdana]

 

So they were obviously making some kind of political commentary about immigration, but I could have done without Martha's heavy-handed speech at the end.  Not because of what she said, it was just too over the top.

I didn't watch so I can't make a judgement call on this specific scene but I'll take a guess it wasn't that subtle?

 

This tweet from Hanning I thought was interesting:

 

Robert Hanning ‏@RobHanning  15 hrs15 hours ago

My favorite thing about last night's #Castle? The message. A big FU to Trump and anyone else who'd shut people out of the U.S. #meltingpot

 

I must admit that nothing annoys me more than being fed A MESSAGE especially if it's done in a heavily handed way on a show like Castle, I don't feel it's the right place to be doing this as the writing isn't deft enough to make it as effective as it could be.  I watch Castle for fun and fluff I don't like being lectured. 

 

But that scene clearly worked for some and not for others by the looks of things. 

 

Don't get me wrong I don't disagree with the message I just don't want it delivered to me in that way. 

Edited March 2, 2016 by verdana

[TWP]

It's as if the show runners and other staff got into a room and said, "I know how to alienate a lot more viewers! Let's write a political message into the script!" The reality is that it's an election year when emotions are high. The US public is pretty evenly split, if not leaning toward the Donald on certain immigration points. In addition, I know some people who are enough anti-police that they refuse to watch police-centric crime shows so it's possible that the Castle and police show audiences in general skew right. Voicing political messages may be more risky than breaking the couple up. Maybe narcissism doesn't allow show execs to realize that Castle is not a place for politics, and they just figure that people should be thankful for their opinion?

Me, I'm nuanced on immigration, not all pro, nor all against. I do resent product placement ads, whether they be for Coke or someone's political stance. However, I was thankfully blissfully scanning for the absent Beckett, and thus didn't care what Martha was saying. Honestly, Martha's accent kills my listening skills sometimes.

Edited March 2, 2016 by TWP

[Guest]

This is the second episode this season where I turned it off partway through after making two attempts to watch it.  I just couldn't get interested in it.  Which makes me sad, because a few of the recent episodes I had felt were getting stronger (as long as I ignored all the ridiculousness of the fake breakup).  

[pepper]

I cringed at the fake French accent. I cringed at the flashbacks and dread the idea of another Big Bad as Castle investigates his disappearance. I roll my eyes so hard at any mention of LokSat that I can see my brain. And... I fell asleep and had to re-watch the last third over breakfast. Which was a bad idea since Super!Alexis now has a third career to go with Ivy League undergraduate studies and running a (successful) detective agency. And then Martha chewed a bit more scenery and it was mercifully over. Watching this show is like doing tequila shots: it starts off seeming like a fun idea, it's not all that great while you're doing it, then you are not that impressed with your own judgment the next day.

[Gant]

Don't get me wrong I don't disagree with the message I just don't want it delivered to me in that way.

That's my feeling as well. Castle is rarely able to deliver its own plot driven pathos with any sort of subtlety, so what's the point of attempting it with political anvils that are bound to fall even harder on even more heads? Doesn't matter if I agree with the particular message or not, I still cringe.

 

IMO it's the same "my craft, my vision" stance as with Marlowe. For some reason all Castle showrunners seem to dislike the idea of making a simple witty, charming procedural, it has to be political conspiracies, messages and all kinds of higher stakes. My simpleton opinion on this is the same as with abstract art, lol. First learn and prove yourself capable of making representational art, then go to town expressing yourself ;). If showrunners ever really committed to making a simple (yet fairly subtle) charming little procedural, they might have found it wasn't that easy or that far beneath them. But seems like they always look beyond that to some higher "art". I guess Marlowe thought he paid his dues in the first 2-3 years of Castle, and deserved to go to his heart desire in the form of Killshot, Belly of the Beast and so on. Pity.

 

 

In addition, I know some people who are enough anti-police that they refuse to watch police-centric crime shows so it's possible that the Castle and police show audiences in general skew right.

 

Actually I think there was some kind of statistics about that several years ago, and you're right, Castle viewers were listed as pretty conservative politically. Internet fandoms never skew right of course.

[KaveDweller]

I didn't watch so I can't make a judgement call on this specific scene but I'll take a guess it wasn't that subtle?

 

This was pretty much the gist of it.

 

http://katic.co.vu/post/140333443560

 

The annoying thing was that if you watched the episode it was already obvious what they thought about immigration. All the people in the ESL class were presented as wonderful people. And we heard about all the different ways the villains were mistreating the poor immigrants and deserved to go to jail. That's a pretty clear message. So the only reason to add the speech was if the writers thought we were stupid and had somehow missed this point. I hate when people assume I'm stupid. 

 

But I guess if they think the viewers are dumb it explains a lot of other things about the writing.

Edited March 3, 2016 by KaveDweller

[femmefan1946]

My Facebook friends got into a discussion of NF's Quebecois accents. (It's not French any more than Glaswegian is English)

 

Lou F. W. Israel Wait...what the hell is a "Jonquiere accent"???

John Thomson Oh, it's a mess.
Consonants are often replaced by the letter "h", and then "h" sounds tend to be added at the start of words/names which start with vowels.
Ex: Hicoutimi (Chicoutimi), Honquière (Jonquière), Haguenay (Saguenay), Lac-Hein-Hean (Lac St-Jean), Halma (Alma).
There's also things whole thing with rolling "r" sounds, and creating them where they shouldn't really be.

Lou F. W. Israel John Thomson , so as a Kaybekwah who has only been that far north once, I might not ueven understand what the natives are saying???
Holy fuck.

John Thomson There's also a lot of dropping the last phonemes in a word, so they will even shorten words to "Honquiè", or "Passe moé un biè." (Beer)
 

 

By and large they thought he got the accent right when he spoke French, but his attempts to sound like a francophone speaking English were pretty bad.

 

I was actually a little shocked to realize that Castle is probably unilingual. That's fairly unusual here with university educated people. And most can at least read the cornflakes box at breakfast.

[CastleSeason8]

I cringed at the fake French accent. I cringed at the flashbacks and dread the idea of another Big Bad as Castle investigates his disappearance. I roll my eyes so hard at any mention of LokSat that I can see my brain. And... I fell asleep and had to re-watch the last third over breakfast. Which was a bad idea since Super!Alexis now has a third career to go with Ivy League undergraduate studies and running a (successful) detective agency. And then Martha chewed a bit more scenery and it was mercifully over. Watching this show is like doing tequila shots: it starts off seeming like a fun idea, it's not all that great while you're doing it, then you are not that impressed with your own judgment the next day.

This is the best post I've read in months. Thanks. It made my day

[KaveDweller]

I was actually a little shocked to realize that Castle is probably unilingual. That's fairly unusual here with university educated people. And most can at least read the cornflakes box at breakfast.

 

We're really self-involved in America. No one can imagine why we might ever need to speak something other than English. Most people can't speak multiple languages here. I've always been impressed when I go to other countries and see that most natives there speak English.  Lots of them will say they speak a little, but they seem practically fluent to me.  I say I speak a little French, but it doesn't come even close to that.  In college we were only required to take 1-year of a language, which doesn't really help that much (especially if you then go years without ever speaking it). I figure Castle falls into that category. We never heard about him spending time abroad did we?

 

I know that these days they are starting teaching other languages earlier in some schools, but Castle wouldn't have had that advantage.

Edited March 3, 2016 by KaveDweller

[TWP]

I really expected Nathan to do the accent better. His last name is Fillion, fer gawlly's sake. French Canadian, hello?

Pepper helped me realize one reason I like Castle. When the show makes me roll my eyes way back in my head, I can check and make sure my brains are still there. Sometimes I wonder. It's nice, not having to guess:-).

Mmmmm, stopping to smell the roses. It wasn't awesome, but I was entertained. Where am I going to be in a couple years when I don't have Castle?

[femmefan1946]

To be fair, my Quebecois friends thought he nailed the actual Quebecois accent. It was the accented English that was awful.

 

DD did immersion French (all teaching was in French and all classroom discussions were in French) from K5 (K4 was only available in English) through Grade 11. She only switched to an English programme in Grade 12 .  Our middle class neighbourhood has more children in immersion than in English language schools (three of the four grade schools are immersion French).

Her partner has a very French name, and his mother is francophone, but growing up in Alberta, he never learned the language. DD delights her MIL by talking to her in French.

[GoGiants]

Starting off with a Hayley and Vikrum themed rant. Feel free to skip. For whatever reason I got hung up on those two this week.

I don't understand why Hayley wants to work for Castle and his dilettante PI shop (or hang out with Alexis in the cool older sister role or work with the cops). In XY and XX she appeared to be a successful PI who skirted the edge of the law (fancy car, PI toys/tools, big money clients, a lab at her fingertips for testing). Why would she drop her own successful business venture to work for Castle and occasionally go on stings and raids with the NYPD (don't get me going on why Beckett et al are cool with her tagging along, given her history). Is she Loksat's plant (at this point I'd take it, just to make a tiny bit of sense of the new characters and story lines)? More likely answer is that she's there to take up space in the shooting schedule created by the leads new S8 contracts.

I thought the guy who plays Vikrum seemed more natural and at ease in the ATT commercial that aired on the break than in the episode (or any of his appearances).

No ill will to either actor but both characters are square pegs being unsuccessfully bashed into round holes. When they aren't present I tend to forget they exist. When they do show up I am annoyed and want them gone. If I was a secondary cast member I would be irritated by Hayley and Vikrum. As of yet, neither has done much that couldn't have been provided by Esposito, Ryan, Lanie or dare I say it, Super Alexis PI (she is multi-talented after all)!

The video conference scene bothered me. It has joined the ever present phone call scenes as another way that they are together but not together during the episodes. I usually don't notice things like that. But the break up and an over reliance on tricks like this has made these scenes stick out all season long. Additionally it felt like a very clear line was in place between the precinct team and the PI team. This just isn't Castle to me.

COTW wasn't that interesting to me but was ok enough for an average Castle episode. I was definitely cringing during Castles québécois accented English scenes. I'm imagine it is very tough to do accents, so I'm not trying to be nasty about it. His clothes didn't drive me nuts but i do see why people were calling it out.

I was a tad grossed out by Perlmutter offering up his twin brother. Usually enjoy his curmudgeonly ways but that was too much on the icky and unprofessional side of things.

All I can say is yuck to the reoccurrence of Castle's disappearance. Sounds like it will be quickly resolved but isn't one disastrous and ill planned storyline enough for S8??? However, it did make me think about how much I love Korean food. I need to go out to eat ASAP!

I agree with comments above about the ending. I prefer the bulk of my tv programs to be sermon free. I don't need or want a lecture about politics or other hot button topics when I'm looking to relax and watch tv. I'm not watching castle for true crime stories and gritty representation of life in NYC. And let's get real, when Castle is struggling mightily to tell its own story, the last thing I'm interested in is their take on current events. Spend some more time writing Loksat or developing the secondary cast before tackling politics. Nothing takes me out of a story like a well timed lecture. It was a stilted and awkward end to an already uneven episode. I would've preferred the generic and often loathed Castle and Beckett wine scene instead.

If I want politics I can read, watch the news or discuss with others. I wasn't really bothered by Martha's comments (nor did I particularly disagree) but it was just one more weird and odd moment in a long line of missteps that has comprised S8.

Again I could've let the bulk of this go without Loksat/the break up. I think I am currently suffering from Loksat poisoning. No cure in sight. Lol

Still hoping for the happy ending. I want to enjoy past episodes and maybe even a few at the end of S8/the series if I'm lucky.

[TWP]

One more idea on the bad French accent - maybe it was deliberate, for comic and realistic effect. While Nathan Fillion is French Canadian, Richard Castle is not.

[madmaverick]

I can only say that from my own experience, Castle as a native French speaker speaking English in an accent actually did quite sound like the French people I know when speaking English.  It had that particular cadence.  But they are French speakers from France and not Canada, so I can't speak to how someone from Quebec would sound like speaking English.  I'd actually assumed they wouldn't sound too different to Canadian English speakers if they were immersed in both languages from a young age,  which I thought they would be.  When I hear the Canadian PM speak (and the guy always has to say everything bilingually!) who is of French Canadian descent, his French doesn't sound accented to my French speaking but non native ears and his English is flawless.  (Random tidbit: I think Nathan may actually know Trudeau personally somehow.  At least they tweet each other and call each other 'ami'. ;))

 

I saw some complaints about the Geordie accent in the episode, which may have been the real travesty!

 

I was actually a little shocked to realize that Castle is probably unilingual.

 

 

Didn't he impress Beckett with his knowledge of Latin in an earlier episode where they hunted for some artifact?  If he went to a boarding school that taught Latin, I'd be surprised if he didn't do another language at some point especially as someone who seems to be into languages (especially when Beckett's speaking them!) and syntax.  His pronunciation of Chauteauneuf de Pape also was pretty spot on or maybe he's been to one too many fine dining French restaurants. ;)  With his contacts in Paris when Alexis was kidnapped, I'd assumed he'd been there previously for work and leisure.  So, all in all, I wouldn't have been surprised if Castle had a smattering knowledge of French that he'd learnt in school years ago or picked up in his working life.  He just clearly had forgotten what 'reve' meant here heh.

 

I remember some presidential campaigns ago when John Kerry was running, the fact that he was a fluent in French, was used as a point of mockery against him by some Republicans instead of being perceived as an asset.  What a... strange world view in my opinion.  I think it's always great when people are fluent in different languages and make the effort to speak a foreign language when abroad.

 

I would agree that a TV show like Castle isn't the best place to make heavy handed political statements.  Then again, the show's writing's never been particularly subtle so maybe that Martha bit was just more of the same.  It was far from being as annoying as Locksat to me. ;)  It didn't really bother me in this instance maybe because the rhetoric has been so inflammatory and unsubtle in real life.  If anyone still hasn't seen John Oliver's brilliant piece on Trump, go see it.  I do find it fascinating how someone can be perceived to be "telling it as it is" while spewing a lot of inaccuracy.

I

MO it's the same "my craft, my vision" stance as with Marlowe. For some reason all Castle showrunners seem to dislike the idea of making a simple witty, charming procedural, it has to be political conspiracies, messages and all kinds of higher stakes. My simpleton opinion on this is the same as with abstract art, lol. First learn and prove yourself capable of making representational art, then go to town expressing yourself ;). If showrunners ever really committed to making a simple (yet fairly subtle) charming little procedural, they might have found it wasn't that easy or that far beneath them. But seems like they always look beyond that to some higher "art". I guess Marlowe thought he paid his dues in the first 2-3 years of Castle, and deserved to go to his heart desire in the form of Killshot, Belly of the Beast and so on. Pity.

 

I think it's not just Castle showrunners but a showrunner disease in general to go bigger, go more complicated, get more "ambitious" (pretentious? ;)) in this supposed golden age of television.  Maybe they see the scope and canvas (and budget!) of some cable shows and have show envy and want to replicate that in their own little show regardless of suitability.  Needless to say, bigger isn't necessarily better, and more than one showrunner has bitten off more they can chew with their desired convoluted mythology, and what made their show charming and successful in the first place can get left by the wayside.  I absolutely miss the days when Castle was a simple, witty, charming procedural where banter was the weapon of choice and not overblown melodrama and conspiracies. Dessert after dinner.  Charming, heartfelt character interactions are what I want to see.

 

Actually I think there was some kind of statistics about that several years ago, and you're right, Castle viewers were listed as pretty conservative politically. Internet fandoms never skew right of course.

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Castle viewers were pretty conservative especially with the older demo. Didn't know that about internet fandoms though.  Interesting

Edited March 3, 2016 by madmaverick

[newyawk]

I know that these days they are starting teaching other languages earlier in some schools, but Castle wouldn't have had that advantage.

They've been teaching languages in schools in America for decades. When I was in junior high school in NY 30 years ago we could pick from German, Spanish, Italian or French.

Edited March 3, 2016 by newyawk

[KaveDweller]

I know they've taught languages in school, but they usually didn't start until high school.

I was in school in NJ and the 90s and we didn't have an option for taking a language until 8th grade. It's easier to become fluent if you start younger.

[femmefan1946]

I absolutely miss the days when Castle was a simple, witty, charming procedural where banter was the weapon of choice and not overblown melodrama and conspiracies. Dessert after dinner.  Charming, heartfelt character interactions are what I want to see.

 

I keep wishing it was possible for a technodolt like me to edit out the dumb parts of the show and leave the 25 or 30 minutes that remain amusing and charming.

[verdana]

I heard about this "Geordie" guy on the show and scanning twitter saw this clip.
 

Kerry Jean Lister ‏@kerryjeanlister 4 hrs4 hours ago
There's a #Geordie in new American tv show #Castle. Absolutely WEEPING!

 

I had NO IDEA the guy speaking in the sneak I saw initially was this Geordie guy, this is the worst attempt I've ever heard and I've had to suffer some bad ones.

 

This is what someone from Newcastle sounds like. 

 

Seems like he was trying a very bad Irish accent with a hint of Scottish in it lol. 

 

You think they could have found someone from that part of the country or found a Scottish or Irish actor (there must be some about in Hollywood) and ask them to thicken their accent up a bit and still play it the same way. 

Edited March 4, 2016 by verdana

[verdana]

I saw some complaints about the Geordie accent in the episode, which may have been the real travesty!

 

Sorry just saw this, oh yeah travesty is the right word, I can't believe Toks kept a straight face when she heard it, bearing in mind she's been educated in England at some point and hopefully heard her fair share of the various local dialects including that one. 

[Sandman]

I must say that when I watch British programming wherein Geordie is spoken, it is a must to use 'closed captions' .

 

I didn't think that guy sounded like any Geordie I've ever heard -- which isn't that many, but still.

 

I don't think Nathan's family is French Canadian, at least not anymore; I would imagine that the French Canadian roots are pretty distant, though I could be wrong.

[AnnaMayWong]

Yeah, I think that the guy appeared to be performing some type of parody of a Geordie accent rather than mimicking an accent.