Legends of Crush Objects, Partners, Teammates, (and Everything Else): The Relationship Thread

[FurryFury]

Well, I do have a thing for characters with unresolved sexual tension having a heightened/antagonistic dynamic, but yeah, not after starting a real romance. But I mostly don't care about the actual romance part, it's the getting there what excites me. 

[squidprincess]

This is more about platonic relationships than romantic ones but: It occurs to me that I would really like to see Ray interacting more with characters like Sara, Rip and Jax.  I feel like so much of his storyline was banished to the Hawk triangle wayside that he never built as much of a dynamic with the others, except for Rory.  I hope we get a bit more of how Ray fits into the overall group dynamic this season.

[nksarmi]

23 hours ago, squidprincess said:

This is more about platonic relationships than romantic ones but: It occurs to me that I would really like to see Ray interacting more with characters like Sara, Rip and Jax.  I feel like so much of his storyline was banished to the Hawk triangle wayside that he never built as much of a dynamic with the others, except for Rory.  I hope we get a bit more of how Ray fits into the overall group dynamic this season.

I want to see Ray and Sara together more - but not as a ship. I'd like to see them sparing and have her do a counter move on him and say something like "Oliver taught you that, didn't he?" "Here, let me show you how to do it better."

Because just for the record, I have not seen anything since season two Arrow flashbacks that resemble Oliver learning to fight. Sara was trained by the League during the same time as he was gallivanting in Hong Kong and she has yet another two years of experience now. I kind of think she could take him. :)

[Sakura12]

The way they've shown Oliver get taken down this season. Sara could definitely beat him. Since we now know that Sara joined the LOA in 2008. That's 5 years of intense training she received before coming back to Star City and she has another 2 years added on to that.

[nksarmi]

3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

The way they've shown Oliver get taken down this season. Sara could definitely beat him. Since we now know that Sara joined the LOA in 2008. That's 5 years of intense training she received before coming back to Star City and she has another 2 years added on to that.

Yea I'm still not believing Oliver could defeat Nyssa, but I'm 100% sure watching Sara fight on Legends - that she could take Oliver. If it was written any other way - it would just to be to prop Oliver up.

It's odd because my romance wish for Legends is kind of an anti-ship. I like Sara and Snart and Sara and Mick as much for their friendship as anything else. I'd love to see Rip and Sara became really good friends. If we get 4 or 5 seasons, they might be able to convince me someday that those two fell for each other, but not yet.

What I would much prefer over ship-board romances is letting the team "spark" with people during their travels. I know they think BR is leading man material, but that's not really his strength as Ray. Being an adorable, goofy, good-hearted science guy is his strength - and letting him play off Mick. My absolute favorite Ray scene ever might be him in the ski mask as Mick's get away driver. So yea, any romance for Ray should be confined to a one or two- episode guest star and then done.

I feel the same way about Jax. I thought Jax and the girl from the 1950's was cute but I don't want to see him falling for the new female crew member or anything.

Edited May 27, 2016 by nksarmi

[squidprincess]

I agree with you.  Really, I'd rather no romance among the crew.  It's too close quarters for that kind of thing, and the drama would sideline some of the characters (see, for example, how poor Kendra was barely involved in the Savage storyarc until the end, even though he's obsessed with and has been murdering her for centuries.)  I've really enjoyed the side romances like Sara and the nurse, Jax and that teen girl, Rip and Jonah (heh).  I'd much prefer seeing more of those.  If a character really clicks, maybe they can come back.

[rtalive]

I love the fact that this show stays away from the romantic relationships this season. The characters are great as single and after all it's the mission that drives them. I like that they are exploring more friendship relationships. I want to see more Sara and Amaya. 

To be honest some of the characters on Legends I still see them more with characters from their previous shows. So do not kill me, but Felicity was great for Ray and Oliver or Nyssa were great for Sara. 

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, rtalive said:

I love the fact that this show stays away from the romantic relationships this season. The characters are great as single and after all it's the mission that drives them. I like that they are exploring more friendship relationships. I want to see more Sara and Amaya. 

To be honest some of the characters on Legends I still see them more with characters from their previous shows. So do not kill me, but Felicity was great for Ray and Oliver or Nyssa were great for Sara. 

Felicity was great for Ray but Ray was not as great for Felicity IMO, lol.  And while I could see a case made for Nyssa and Sara if Nyssa ever evolved a bit more, right now I think again Sara would be good for Nyssa but not Nyssa so much for Sara.  As for Oliver and Sara, I'm of the opinion that they are too much alike especially in their bad habits to ever have a serious long term relationship.

Ray IMO is a guy that needs love in his life.  I wish they'd just let him save his fiance with some out of time magic so he can still have become the man he is while still getting to be with the woman he loved.  I tend to see Felicity and Kendra as Ray looking to fill the void Anna left behind (I think her name was Anna).  

I had hopes for a Rip/Sara thing waaaay down the road but not sure if show logistics would allow for that.  It's kind of fun right now having Sara be the Captain Kirk of the show, finding a gal in every era.  

I like a lot that despite Prof Stein being away from Clarissa, she's never just forgotten. I'd prefer if they just let her come along though with the intent of always staying on the ship except in the safest of circumstances.  

I'm more interested in hearing about Jax's dad than him in a relationship.

Amaya - I'm not sure they haven't already screwed up her future with Rex dying, lol but I worry that if she had a relationship with someone on the ship then Mari aka present day Vixen doesn't exist.  Oops.  That said, I could possibly be open to something between her and Mick.  Maybe.  I think what I'm really interested in a a sort of HEA for him.  I'm so surprised how fond of him I am.  I want good things for him.   

Nate I just don't care about one way or the other at this point so his love life even that much less.  At least I don't dislike him which is more than i can say for most of the Newbies on Arrow.  

Edited November 25, 2016 by BkWurm1

[squidprincess]

There is always the possibility that Mari's grandfather is someone Vixen meets while being a time traveler?  So that may not rule out a HEA for Mick...

[KirkB]

How long is Vixen supposed to be on the show? Couldn't she already be pregnant by Rex and not know it, and that ends up being the reason she leaves?

[Sakura12]

I got the feeling that they weren't together yet and we're waiting until the end of the war to leave the JSA. Since they both seemed to be a follow the rules no matter what type of people. 

[Miss Dee]

I was kind of hoping that if they were to pair Amaya up with anyone, it would be Mick. Obviously they're not going that route. But it did hit me this week, once we *finally* got more Mick/Ray interaction (and God, did I miss it!), that I kind of ship them too. You'll never see it happen - DC is more likely to greenlight a romance between Mick and Supergirl - but I can't help but think it'd be fun to watch on screen.

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, Miss Dee said:

I was kind of hoping that if they were to pair Amaya up with anyone, it would be Mick. Obviously they're not going that route. But it did hit me this week, once we *finally* got more Mick/Ray interaction (and God, did I miss it!), that I kind of ship them too. You'll never see it happen - DC is more likely to greenlight a romance between Mick and Supergirl - but I can't help but think it'd be fun to watch on screen.

No way.  Snart is the REAL love of Mick's life, and you know it.

[Miss Dee]

I get what you're saying @legaleagle53, and i can accept that on paper, but the problem is there is No Way in Hell I could sit down and watch Dominic Purcell and Wentworth Miller in an onscreen romance. Even not having watched Prison Break, and just getting the gist from ads and magazines and the like, they're too firmly cemented as brothers in my head to accept it. I'd be all, "Wait a sec, why is Lincoln touching Michael's face and - no, that's wrong, stop it stop it STOP IT OH GOD MY EYES! BLEACH! BLEEEEAACH!"

 

I would happily watch Purcell romance any other creature in the DCW...but not Miller! Sorry!

[legaleagle53]

7 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

I get what you're saying @legaleagle53, and i can accept that on paper, but the problem is there is No Way in Hell I could sit down and watch Dominic Purcell and Wentworth Miller in an onscreen romance. Even not having watched Prison Break, and just getting the gist from ads and magazines and the like, they're too firmly cemented as brothers in my head to accept it. I'd be all, "Wait a sec, why is Lincoln touching Michael's face and - no, that's wrong, stop it stop it STOP IT OH GOD MY EYES! BLEACH! BLEEEEAACH!"

 

I would happily watch Purcell romance any other creature in the DCW...but not Miller! Sorry!

Relax, I was only joking (sort of).  ;-)

[zannej]

I really hope that Nate doesn't turn out to be the father of any children Amaya has. I really don't care for Nate at all. I hope that they don't have Nate pining over Amaya or have her suddenly realizing she has feelings for him and have her want to be with him. The couple was just so out-of-the-blue and forced. I could actually have seen Sara and Amaya getting together before Nate and Amaya.

I see Snart and Rory as brothers more than anything else. I also didn't see any UST between Rip and Hex. I didn't see any UST between Rip and anyone really. Which reminds me, now that the Time Masters are pretty much dead, why can't Rip go back and save his family? Vandal Savage was killed in multiple different times, so shouldn't it have undone some of the damage? Having his family be rescued wouldn't mean that Rip couldn't stay on the ship. He could still stop by to visit his wife and son. I think I'd rather have Rip's wife on the show instead of Nate. She seemed like she was fairly capable before she stepped down to save Rip from being expelled. And maybe some villain can kidnap their son and the mission is to try to find him before the villains can manipulate the son to turn him against his parents and the Legends.

[squidprincess]

Rip can't save his family because in the roundabout nature of time travel, they were already dead once Savage was killed.  It's a bit convoluted, but basically Savage had to be killed three times for it to stick, and the third Savage had been the one who had been captured in 2166 (in Leviathan), taken to the Time Masters (in River of Time), and had captured Kendra (in Destiny.)  He took Kendra with him to murder Rip's family, and she was with him in 2032, when he was finally killed.

So unfortunately, they're pretty much still dead.  Obviously, that wouldn't prevent the show from making up some ridiculous explanation if they want to save them in the future, but by what's currently established, they're still dead.

I actually think Rip had a decent amount of UST with Jonah, but no one else in season one.  This season though, surprisingly, I did see a little something between Rip and Sara.  Or at least, I thought that Phil seemed interested in Sara, and the way that Sara beamed when she thought Phil was Rip made me think maybe there's something there after all.

[MarkHB]

18 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

So unfortunately, they're pretty much still dead.  Obviously, that wouldn't prevent the show from making up some ridiculous explanation if they want to save them in the future, but by what's currently established, they're still dead.

Undeading them sounds like a Series Finale bit to me, tbh.  So we're at least a year away.

[Starfish35]

49 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

I actually think Rip had a decent amount of UST with Jonah, but no one else in season one.  This season though, surprisingly, I did see a little something between Rip and Sara.  Or at least, I thought that Phil seemed interested in Sara, and the way that Sara beamed when she thought Phil was Rip made me think maybe there's something there after all.

I agree.  I was not seeing Sara/Rip at all last year, but I'm starting to see it this year, a little here and there.  Like right before he killed her (yeah I know) he was looking at her and going "what is it about this woman?"  I think the show is starting to indicate in little ways that Sara is important to him in a way the others aren't.  I'm interested to see where they go with that, if they're just teasing or if they actually have intentions to follow through on it.   

And yeah, I did see the UST between Rip and Hex last season. 

[Sakura12]

I didn't see any UST between Rip and Sara last season, but I did see that out of all the team Rip was closest to Sara. And Sara was the only one that somewhat respected him. 

This season however they seem to pushing Rip and Sara as something more. I don't know if they'll do anything with them since they supposedly want to make Sara a full lesbian rather than Bi and the one writer that was pushing to keep her Bi no longer writes for show. 

[Starfish35]

Which writer was that? Was that the one that made those tweets about it being a directive from the higher ups or something like that?

I don't know what to think, because they have been pushing the Sara prefers girls angle quite a bit, but on the other hand MG has always seemed to be a Sara/Rip shipper.  So I don't know what's going on.

[squidprincess]

24 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I didn't see any UST between Rip and Sara last season, but I did see that out of all the team Rip was closest to Sara. And Sara was the only one that somewhat respected him. 

This season however they seem to pushing Rip and Sara as something more. I don't know if they'll do anything with them since they supposedly want to make Sara a full lesbian rather than Bi and the one writer that was pushing to keep her Bi no longer writes for show. 

Martin showed a lot of respect for Rip's abilities in JSA, and his interaction with Rip was always interestingly complex throughout season one. Though I would agree that Rip tended to be closest to Sara, and that Sara had been his confidant and voice of conscience.

But anyway, as far as I know there's never been any confirmation from any higher ups about wanting to make Sara a lesbian.  There were a couple of tweets from Sarah Nicole Jones, a former writer/producer of the show, that suggested that viewers should take their concerns directly to the network.  Fans have interpreted that to mean that the show is steering away from portraying Sara as bisexual.  

It is definitely true that Sara has only been romantically linked to women this season, but I don't know that there is anything to confirm that they are actually intending to change Sara's sexuality.

Edited February 15, 2017 by squidprincess

[Starfish35]

Thanks, @squidprincess.  I didn't realize Sarah Nicole Jones was no longer with the show.

ETA: This is the tweet that raised eyebrows. @Proteus posted it in the Sara thread.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Starfish35

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Having finally taken the plunge and binged to catch up to the current point, I have to say that all the (romantic) relationships between the core team so far have been very forgettable and very nearly bordering on cringe-worthy - although the Sara/Snart thing might have worked, if had been given time and opportunity to pursue as such.  Kendra/Carter only 'worked' because of they're storyline plot.

The friendship angles are great, for the most part.  Truly see themselves as a family.  If they would just keep that dynamic platonic between themselves, this show and its tone would always be very good.

But the Ray/Kendra in S1 and Nate/Amaya in S2 (& most likely more in the new season), just No.  And No.   One pairing was always doomed because she had a forever-lives partner that was waiting to swoop back in and the other because she needs to ultimately return and stay in her own original timeline so her family tree branches out correctly.  Those two doomed romances, & the fact they even thought it was a good idea to go there, are so CW at its finest [ie, worst].

[kismet]

12 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

The friendship angles are great, for the most part.  Truly see themselves as a family.  If they would just keep that dynamic platonic between themselves, this show and its tone would always be very good.

Yep. Totally agree with this. I really wish they would just keep it platonic on the Waverider. Personally, I have never seen a whole lot of romantic/sexual chemistry on the show that needs to be addressed. Some shows are blessed to have actors that ooze chemistry, and those shows should try to capture that to make a romantic plot line. Some shows are blessed to have writers talented to write romantic plotlines. LoT has neither the writing or the casting to support a full time love story with the regulars/recurring. I know it is on the CW, but I really wish they could fight off and resist the need to have a romantic coupling or subplot.

[Miss Dee]

I too want a totally platonic work environment except between Mick and Ray, shhh.

[Sakura12]

 I'm kind of seeing the Laurel effect with Ava is coming in too aggressive without showing any warmth. If they wait too long to show her softer side it's going to be harder to get over my dislike of her character. If we compare her to Zari who we did see have a softer side for her missing family. She definitely has ulterior motives for joining the team but she's willing to help them too. 

It worries me because I read interviews with the writers where they said it was hard for them to find a love interest for Sara. Now if Ava is it, they tried too hard. I agree that Snart was actually perfect for Sara. He had different skills that worked well with hers and their personalities matched. The writers apparently didn't see that since WM and CL were the ones adding the subtle flirting.  Ava doesn't match Sara at all, being as good a fighter as her doesn't mean they are a good match romantically. Sara is a caring person she responds to other people that care as well. I actually think Snart started caring about the team because Sara cared about the team. Nyssa cared for Sara and helped her through what happened her to on the island by making her a warrior.  Ava doesn't seem to care about anyone but her self and her status as a time agent. She is not someone Sara would fall for. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Sakura12

[Proteus]

43 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

 I'm kind of seeing the Laurel effect with Ava is coming in too aggressive without showing any warmth. If they wait too long to show her softer side it's going to be harder to get over my dislike of her character. If we compare her to Zari who we did see have a softer side for her missing family. She definitely has ulterior motives for joining the team but she's willing to help them too. 

It worries me because I read interviews with the writers where they said it was hard for them to find a love interest for Sara. Now if Ava is it, they tried too hard. I agree that Snart was actually perfect for Sara. He had different skills that worked well with hers and their personalities matched. The writers apparently didn't see that since WM and CL were the ones adding the subtle flirting.  Ava doesn't match Sara at all, being as good a fighter as her doesn't mean they are a good match romantically. Sara is a caring person she responds to other people that care as well. I actually think Snart started caring about the team because Sara cared about the team. Nyssa cared for Sara and helped her through what happened her to on the island by making her a warrior.  Ava doesn't seem to care about anyone but her self and her status as a time agent. She is not someone Sara would fall for. 

IDA. Ava just started on the show and hasn't gotten much screen time. I don't know how it can be determined that she is not someone Sara would fall for so soon. Just because Ava is harsh right now does not mean she won't soften down the line. 

[Sakura12]

As I said in my post if they take too long to show that softer side, I won't be able to get over my dislike of her character. I still hate Laurel. 

With the limited screentime she's had, all she's done is call the the Legends worthless losers, threatened to hurt/kill/scatter them through time and not even say thank you when Sara saved her twice. That's not a way to get the character fans or want me as a Sara fan to see Sara with someone like that. Sara deserves and could do so much better than a character that thinks so little of her and her team. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Sakura12

[Proteus]

47 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

As I said in my post if they take too long to show that softer side, I won't be able to get over my dislike of her character. I still hate Laurel. 

With the limited screentime she's had, all she's done is call the the Legends worthless losers, threatened to hurt/kill/scatter them through time and not even say thank you when Sara saved her twice. That's not a way to get the character fans or want me as a Sara fan to see Sara with someone like that. Sara deserves and could do so much better than a character that thinks so little of her and her team. 

I am a Sara fan as well. She's my favorite character. I see what the show is trying to do with Sara & Ava and I like their dynamic so far. I see other people online like Ava as well so what the show is doing is working for some people.

Its obvious Avas thoughts on Sara and the Legends will change. That's why I'm not disliking her based on three episodes.

[GreatAtBoats]

It's impossible to say how many people genuinely like Ava or simply don't care what she's like as long as Sara's paired with a woman.

I'm not saying that's you, but you're honestly the first person I've seen that doesn't find her annoying who wasn't talking her up and shipping her with Sara before seeing anything of her outside of the trailer on the basis of her gender.

[Proteus]

16 minutes ago, GreatAtBoats said:

It's impossible to say how many people genuinely like Ava or simply don't care what she's like as long as Sara's paired with a woman.

I'm not saying that's you, but you're honestly the first person I've seen that doesn't find her annoying who wasn't talking her up and shipping her with Sara before seeing anything of her outside of the trailer on the basis of her gender.

I don't think it's fair to say anyone who likes Ava just wants Sara with a woman. Even if they started shipping them just based on the trailer.

Ive seen a lot of people on Twitter and tumblr that like Ava so far. So I guess how liked or disliked a character is comes down to where you look online for comments about them.

[johntfs]

Ava's basically a janitor charged with keeping a floor clean and the Legends are other janitors who still track mud and stains all over her floor.  They make her job and her life harder than she believes it needs to be.  Of course she doesn't like them.  It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Ava is person whose life was messed with by an anachronism ("Hitler killed my Daddy because of you people!") in which Rip helped her and then recruited her.  Also, along with Rip's bad-mouthing, Ava's personal experience watching the Legends in action hasn't been the best.  Do we really need to say anything more about the P. T. Barnum episode litany of fuck-ups?  Even while they were more competent in this episode, the Legends still screwed with future history by removing Zari from it (and also starting a prison riot).  Future history is still part of the timeline which Ava is charged with protecting.

Edited October 27, 2017 by johntfs

[kismet]

5 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

 I'm kind of seeing the Laurel effect with Ava is coming in too aggressive without showing any warmth. If they wait too long to show her softer side it's going to be harder to get over my dislike of her character. If we compare her to Zari who we did see have a softer side for her missing family. She definitely has ulterior motives for joining the team but she's willing to help them too. 

It worries me because I read interviews with the writers where they said it was hard for them to find a love interest for Sara. Now if Ava is it, they tried too hard. I agree that Snart was actually perfect for Sara. He had different skills that worked well with hers and their personalities matched. The writers apparently didn't see that since WM and CL were the ones adding the subtle flirting.  Ava doesn't match Sara at all, being as good a fighter as her doesn't mean they are a good match romantically. Sara is a caring person she responds to other people that care as well. I actually think Snart started caring about the team because Sara cared about the team. Nyssa cared for Sara and helped her through what happened her to on the island by making her a warrior.  Ava doesn't seem to care about anyone but her self and her status as a time agent. She is not someone Sara would fall for. 

I think the writers might have saw the chemistry between Sara & Snart, problem was I think they only say it after they knew they were going to lose WM. I never got into Sara/Snart, but it did have potential. I actually think Sara & s1 Rip had chemistry (once he got over his wife), but alas he is out of the show too. I did enjoy Nyssa/Sara, unfortunately I don't think the writers have any intention of bringing her onto the show.

I agree with you, that I don't see Ava as a good match for Sara. I disagree about the LL effect, so far Ava hasn't been as miswritten or misacted as LL was. I do think that Ava has yet to show vulnerability, but it's only a few episodes in and she is supposed to be the adversary, so it makes sense. I think her vulnerability will come out later. I'm sort of happy we haven't seen her vulnerable side - it makes her easier to see as an adversary.

I'm not sure I need to have SL in a romantic relationship because the writers suck at writing them. Every successful Flarrowverse relationship has really been more about coincidence as opposed to planned. Somehow when the writers focus on it, they make the relationships worse. I would like to know that it's possible for SL to have a romantic relationship, I just want it to be done well. I don't see Ava as a good option for that. Maybe they should try to find a better fit.

[Sakura12]

We all know what they are doing with Sara and Ava, that is very obvious. The way they are doing it is not working for me. The hate/love thing is too far on one side. I didn't mean the LL effect with her being miscast, I meant more in the she's coming in way too aggressive that it will be hard for me get past that when they do eventually soften her up. She may think the Legends are terrible time travelers which they are, but there is no reason she needs to be such an a-hole to them. 

I can't see Sara wanting to be with someone that was that disrespectful of her and her friends.

[tennisgurl]

Ava is so clearly being written as a love interest for Sara, and I just dont see it yet. I understand why Ava dislikes them (she loves rules, the Legends think rules are for dorks), but she just seems so unpleasant, and she has so much disdain for Saras team, I dont see a love connection happening. Plus, Sara has never really gone for the straight laced types. She has, in cannon, gone for party boy turned vigilante Oliver, professional assassin Nyssa, semi reformed criminal Snart, and possibly rouge time captain Rip. Nothing really says she would be into a dour, humorless rules stickler like Ava seems to be. 

I know some people are wondering if they might pair Zari with Ray, and I dont really see that either. Rays romantic relationships are by far the least interesting part about him, and we have yet to find someone he really has romantic chemistry with. He just comes on so strong and clings so hard (probably due to low self esteem and his dead fiance issues) that he comes off as too intense or pathetically clingy. Plus, the two main relationships we have seen him in (Felicity and Kendra) were with women still in love with other men. So, on the one hand, I dont want him back with another women, and I am always weary of characters being brought in with a romance in mind, but on the other hand, the poor guy has so much bad luck in romances, that its starting to become depressing. How many times can one person be second fiddle?

[BkWurm1]

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I know some people are wondering if they might pair Zari with Ray, and I dont really see that either. Rays romantic relationships are by far the least interesting part about him, and we have yet to find someone he really has romantic chemistry with. He just comes on so strong and clings so hard (probably due to low self esteem and his dead fiance issues) that he comes off as too intense or pathetically clingy. Plus, the two main relationships we have seen him in (Felicity and Kendra) were with women still in love with other men. So, on the one hand, I dont want him back with another women, and I am always weary of characters being brought in with a romance in mind, but on the other hand, the poor guy has so much bad luck in romances, that its starting to become depressing. How many times can one person be second fiddle?

Yeah, if/when Ray falls for someone next time, I need him to win in love.  Maybe have her fall for him and him be oblivious.  Ray is too soft-hearted to be as cynical as he already is about love.  But if they aren't ready to give him a HEA, then I'm all for letting him just concentrate on his bromance with Mick.  

 

Ava so far isn't working as a love interest for Sara for me.  It isn't even that she's only been shown to be the school marm, rapping knuckles, and hating that her job makes her deal with children being children.  She's just too boring for Sara.  Ava is perfectly fine in the role she currently has and I can see that role transforming into grudging respect (or at least desperate cooperation) but so far I've not seen anything that would spark Sara's interest even to have her as a friend unless it's out of pity for the poor harrassed woman. (When I typed that last part, I pictured Ava having to spend the day with Mick and just being completely confused, lol)  But Ava so far isn't the type of character interesting enough to turn into a love interest.  And that's the part I can't imagine changing even if they did show her softer side later on. 

I think they were going for an Alex Danvers type character (Supergirl)

Spoiler

and having Sara hook up with her in the crossover is probably a stepping stone to showing Sara falling for the type later with Ava (the Spoiler is the Alex hook up.  I have no confirmation on Ava) ,

1

Alex is a character that day to day is bad ass at her job but very much a rule follower within her covert government agency while also being extremely loyal and with a big heart that she only shows to those closest to her.  And she clearly has a sense of humor. But so far Ava has only been shown to be good at her job, in love with the rules, and completely lacking in humor.  To a degree that makes me think she never laughs, not because she's super miserable, but because she's just the type of person that doesn't ever get the joke.

  And while on Supergirl Alex could come off harsh because of how much she cared, Ava is harsh while clearly NOT caring about the team.  

I can beleive she's passionate about her job but caring about a mission is far less engaging than seeing someone caring and connecting with people.  It's why until Felicity and Diggle were brought into Oliver's mission on Arrow, I just couldn't connect to his character.  Ava has no one to connect to.  And if in the end the only person she ends connecting to is Sara, well, that's too late because I'm going to need a reason to like her BEFORE that happens.    

Edited October 27, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Miss Dee]

Part of why I ship Ray and Mick is (assuming they could believably write the new nuances of their sexual orientations) because Mick is the type to devote himself to a person rather than a goal or a cause. He was happy in Doomworld with Leonard and once Leonard was no longer focused on their partnership he wanted out. He's with the Legends now not to save the world or achieve a dream, but because they're his crew and they need him and he's gonna be there for them.

So if Mick really fell for Ray, Ray would be the most important thing to him and his decisions would be based on that loyalty. He'd he happy to tag along with Ray while Ray chased his dreams, because all Mick ultimately wants in his life are his creature comforts and something interesting to do...which he can get anywhere, as long as he's with the one most important to him.

So I kind of love the idea of Ray, who's been perennially (and arguably undeservedly) second-best in all the romances we've seen, ending up with someone for whom he is not only the preferred and favourite choice but would be devoted to him 100%.

Granted, someone not of the gender he'd assumed he would end up with - but he wouldn't be the first guy who assumed he must be straight because he never experienced attraction to another man...until he did.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Miss Dee

[johntfs]

On 10/27/2017 at 9:58 AM, Miss Dee said:

So I kind of love the idea of Ray, who's been perennially (and arguably undeservedly) second-best in all the romances we've seen, ending up with someone for whom he is not only the preferred and favourite choice but would be devoted to him 100%.

Except that we've never seen any indication that Ray is anything but heterosexual, so even if Mick was gay (or bi) he'd be falling for someone unable to return his love in the same way, which would really suck for Mick.

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, johntfs said:

Except that we've never seen any indication that Ray is anything but heterosexual, so even if Mick was gay (or bi) he'd be falling for someone unable to return his love in the same way, which would really suck for Mick.

That didn't stop TPTB from turning Alex Danvers into a lesbian on Supergirl.  And we'd had no indication at all during the first season that she was anything other than heterosexual, either.

That's not to say that I'm in favor of pairing Ray and Mick romantically -- I'm most decidedly NOT in favor of it, because I prefer my same-sex ships to be organic in nature, not arbitrarily forced into existence just for the sake of "diversity" or because the two characters in question look as though they belong together that way regardless of what their previous sexual history is.  I was opposed to making Alex a lesbian for the same reason -- it just felt inorganic and forced to me.

[Miss Dee]

It'll never happen, so it's a moot point; I'm probably the only person it appeals to. I'm just explaining what I do like about it.

A man discovering he's not as straight as he thought he was is something that happens in real life, though, and I'd like to see that storyline explored on television (whether it happened on Legends or not). But I think any show that did it would have to commit - really commit - to exploring that part of it for the character so that it does feel organic, not because the producers want to pair two characters together.

[johntfs]

On 10/28/2017 at 6:08 PM, legaleagle53 said:

That didn't stop TPTB from turning Alex Danvers into a lesbian on Supergirl.  And we'd had no indication at all during the first season that she was anything other than heterosexual, either.

That's not to say that I'm in favor of pairing Ray and Mick romantically -- I'm most decidedly NOT in favor of it, because I prefer my same-sex ships to be organic in nature, not arbitrarily forced into existence just for the sake of "diversity" or because the two characters in question look as though they belong together that way regardless of what their previous sexual history is.  I was opposed to making Alex a lesbian for the same reason -- it just felt inorganic and forced to me.

Bearing in mind that comics are one reality and the TV show is another, they didn't really turn Alex into a lesbian so much as had her discover herself.  There really wasn't any focus on her dating/sex life prior to that, likely because she didn't have much of one.

Ray has had a female fiance, dated Felicity for a while and dated Kendra for a while.  He's clearly attracted to women and we really haven't seen anything to indicate that he'd be attracted to Mick or any other male.

Edited October 30, 2017 by johntfs

[Starfish35]

I think the problem with Ava is that, outside of being Sara's love interest, she falls into a very familiar character trope.   She is the character that we've all seen on dozens of shows that comes on as the new boss, or the investigator, or the new hire that does it better.  He/she is there to make Our Heroes straighten up, toe the line, follow the rules, or is there to find a reason to have Our Heroes fired/jailed/humiliated/brought down.  Or he/she is the character hunting down our Heroes that they are managing to stay just one step ahead of.   This character is not meant to be liked by the audience; in fact, the audience instinctively dislikes them because they are set up in opposition to Our Heroes. 

Now sometimes this character will eventually become a favorite, but but usually that is done through eventually having them changing their opinions, and/or showing them to actually be an ally instead of an enemy, and/or showing a more sympathetic side of them.

It's possible they may eventually do something like this with Ava, but right now for me it's hard to find any reason at all to want her and Sara together.  I think @tennisgurl and @BkWurm1 put it very well.  It's hard to see any reason at all that Sara would be attracted to her right now.  

[kismet]

19 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

That didn't stop TPTB from turning Alex Danvers into a lesbian on Supergirl.  And we'd had no indication at all during the first season that she was anything other than heterosexual, either.

Is Alex Danvers a comic character, or is she just part of the TV show? They have more freedom if she is just part of the show, or like FS on Arrow and only uses a comic name. I think TPTBs need to consider a comic character's canon before they change or clarify the person's sexuality for a multitude of reasons. Nothing I have read about Ray indicates what his sexual orientation is. He has been engaged to a woman (potentially married/widowed to a woman) and he has dated women in the Flarrowverse, but that doesn't even clarify his orientation in this modern age. However, I honestly do not think TPTB will want to make him bisexual or homosexual. I think the slash fan fiction/shipping of Mick/Ray may have it fans, but I don't think that will be used on the show. Perhaps there might be a heated moment or something, but an actual relationship - I just can't see the writers, DC, or TPTB going for that.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if there was a moment, those can be cheeky fun. But I don't want to see an actual relationship, unless the writers actual commit to it, which they have not done for any of other relationships. We have had melodrama, but the writers have never written a successful or interesting romantic relationship. These use it for plot points, but not for actual character or relationship development. I don't see Mick/Ray as their big go-to for writing a romantic pairing.

18 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

A man discovering he's not as straight as he thought he was is something that happens in real life, though, and I'd like to see that storyline explored on television (whether it happened on Legends or not). But I think any show that did it would have to commit - really commit - to exploring that part of it for the character so that it does feel organic, not because the producers want to pair two characters together.

You should watch "Grace & Frankie" on Netflix... it explores that beautifully and it has Martin Sheen, Sam Waterson, Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin so the acting is spectacular, even the supporting cast is awesome.

And I totally agree with you about wanting a relationship to be organic. Most of the TV couples that I have loved throughout time have had organic foundations. While the LoT team has been great with creating organic characters, they have not yet been able to write organic romantic relationships.

Edited October 29, 2017 by kismet

[Starfish35]

5 hours ago, kismet said:

Is Alex Danvers a comic character, or is she just part of the TV show?

She's an original character for the show.

[kismet]

7 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

She's an original character for the show.

Thanks, that's what I thought - but honestly did not know.

So they can basically do anything they want with her sexual orientation. They don't need to follow any comic canon or history. Similar to Sara, although now that she is the White Canary, I wonder if DC weighs in more on who SL can be in a relationship with. It might explain why up until now SL has only been a love & leave them type of romantic partner.

[Sakura12]

I doubt it. Comic White Canary is a completely different character one that doesn't have much of a history. She was only in one comic run and was never given a real name. 

I think Sara's single because they liked making Sara the Captain Kirk or Captain Jack (pick your sci fi reference) of the show.

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I think Sara's single because they liked making Sara the Captain Kirk or Captain Jack (pick your sci fi reference) of the show.

I'd say she's a combination of both.  She's Captain Jack in terms of her self-confidence and sexuality (he was bisexual too, remember), and Captain Kirk with her impulsive, zero-fucks-to-give attitude.

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

I'd say she's a combination of both.  She's Captain Jack in terms of her self-confidence and sexuality (he was bisexual too, remember), and Captain Kirk with her impulsive, zero-fucks-to-give attitude.

So basically she's the best of both Captains.

[Sakura12]

I think some adult actors should take some tips from Millie Bobbie Brown and Finn Wolfhard from Stranger Things on selling a romance. Those two are 13 and 14 and I buy every second of Mike and Eleven's love story. 

This show needs to just let things happen naturally, if they notice that two characters are connecting see where it goes. Don't try to force a romance because comics or because you think we need a love/hate relationship. The Legends being friends and family is what makes this show great. I buy that they are full fledged team, more so than Team Flash or Team Arrow.