S10.E06: My Struggle II

[AntiBeeSpray]

I haven't read Rowlings detective novels yet, but by all accounts they are very good. So not quite sure what your point is here, because obviously some people can go with the times.

 

Yea I've read one of them so far and it was pretty good.

 

Here's another interview...

 

Source: ew.com

 

A quote from it:

 

People spent years looking forward to seeing Mulder and Scully together again. Clearly you’re a sociopath, since you kept them apart for almost the entirety of this finale.

[Laughs] I feel like there was a nod to people who want them to be together again in episode 5. And I think that they are forever connected, whether romantically or not.

Trolling fans, really Chris? Grow up. At least for the most part, your actors and your other writers have. And that I can respect.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I am not sure it's fair to say that he was trolling fans but I think it is fair to say that at his core, he's not naturally a shipper. That is, I just don't think that he's interested all that much in that part of Mulder and Scully's relationship, he has other things he's interested in focusing. Which, you know, is fine, I guess. We got what I would consider one real shipper episode with this miniseries, and that's "Home Again," which may be why I liked it the most.  It seems odd to me that they weren't back together after that episode, but given how oblique the show often is with their relationship, maybe they were and we just don't know it.

 

 

[Ghost of TWOP Past]

Scully is going to be able to amplify and replicate her own alien DNA enough to cure millions of people. 

 

Damn right She is. Do not question Her divine grace! 

 

Contrary opinion: I do not believe that the show's moment in time has passed, nor that we are more cynical because we have internet knowledge at our fingertips. Are government secrets and conspiracies less relevant and plausible in the era of the Homeland Security Department and Edward Snowden? 

 

Here's what I believe the problem is. When the original series aired we were still hoping, even though we knew better, that they would salvage the mytharc before ending the show, and so we were more willing to play along with it as it unfolded. I think there is more dissatisfaction and less patience with the incorrect science and bad plotting this time around because bitter experience has taught us that it's never going to pay off satisfactorily. The stories NEVER made sense. We're just aggravated because we hoped they'd get it right if we gave them a second chance at it, but instead it was more of the same. 

Edited February 24, 2016 by Ghost of TWOP Past

[spaulding]

The stories NEVER made sense. We're just aggravated because we hoped they'd get it right if we gave them a second chance at it, but instead it was more of the same.

 

I agree.  I'll glaze over the alien stuff, which didn't interest me. 

 

Years later, the cageyness of Mulder and Scully's romantic relationship is frustrating.  I don't mind if they're no longer together, but Carter still likes to dangle that carrot.  It's more of the same. 

[Juice4Cheeze]

Juice4Cheeze - I think this is the best explanation I've read and totally nails how these writers can produce material that - at the time of original publication - captured so many readers/viewers, yet fails upon revivals or newly published books a decade later, to be the 'same'. Thought the current Star Wars is right now seems to break that notion, but remember there was SW chapters 1-3 that faired quite poorly.

Hey thanks :)

 

The current Star Wars is a reboot by none other than JJ Abrams. Fringe, which I mentioned earlier as being very much built off of X-Files imo, was a JJ Abrams concept as well. And of course the new Star Trek is a JJ Abrams reboot. I don't think Lucas, Carter, Roddenberry, etc ... could arguably change enough to write something that would seem upgraded, updated, "new", etc. I'm not touting Abrams as the one to do it all, but I am pointing out that he's an example of someone who seems to be able to build upon the themes of those types of individuals, and give it a fresh element and angle that DOES bring it up to speed in a different enough way, imo. Nolan is another example, look what he did with Batman.

 

I think it would be interesting to see someone else take the helm of X-Files ... but utilize the same crew as much as possible.

 

 I think you underestimate Mulder's skill set.

 

 

 

Nailed it. Like I said in my earlier post, The X Files as a show came to be during a very specific period in American pop history--the early nineties through the early 2000s. It was a blend of tried and true monsters and other such pulp elements, regional mythology that was losing the last of its niche veiling, and the rise of personal computers and the internet. I wrote about it back in the day when I was rewatching the series with my husband: http://goddessoftransitory.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-truth-isnt-out-there-its-in-here-in.html (because I know you're fascinated!)

 

But I think the crucial difference in "believability" for a show like X Files is that we're willing to buy that which absolutely doesn't exist (werewolves, your liver looks delish, fluke worms from space in the Arctic circle) more then we are things that try to pretend they're plausibly able to exist (I can make a cure for billions in an hour with my own blood, fetch me some stem cells, only one internet crank cares about the entire world  crashing to a halt.) It's like that bit in Guardians of the Galaxy where Groot's drinking the fountain water and denying it, to Rocket's exasperation: "Yes you are! I just saw you doing it! Why are you lying?" 

 

I would add, one of the reasons we watched X-Files differently back then, is because conspiracies were hiding behind every corner, and many of them were verified fact. In some ways, the X-Files was a source of information ... it fed off this idea that conspiracies were all around us, just beyond our grasp while pulling strings behind our backs. The information age of the internet, and the common place nature of conspiracies now, have somewhat diminished our awe and wonder at such things. What lies in Area 51 ? We have better things to do, and plus, there are dozens of documentaries on it. Aliens ? Sure, pick your version: you want someone with tall hair telling you about them, or a former astronaut ? It's too common place and at our finger tips. However it doesn't mean they don't still exist ... Carter still treated them like they were "mysterious" in this short series, the stuff of crackpots ... they no longer are. I think the crux of X-Files is conspiracy, not aliens ... they need to play off conspiracy differently to have a fresh reboot. Dig at what may still cause that wonder in a person over the conspiracies around them.

 

I haven't read Rowlings detective novels yet, but by all accounts they are very good. So not quite sure what your point is here, because obviously some people can go with the times.

 

And my point was that obviously some people's attempts to go with the times, fall flat and seems more like a throwback. As far as Rowling, I was simply mentioning her as an example of someone who creates complex mythos arc stories, she hasn't attempted any "reboots" yet of anything, so to say she does or doesn't keep up with the times wasn't something I was saying about her specifically.

[AntiBeeSpray]

I agree.  I'll glaze over the alien stuff, which didn't interest me. 

 

Years later, the cageyness of Mulder and Scully's romantic relationship is frustrating.  I don't mind if they're no longer together, but Carter still likes to dangle that carrot.  It's more of the same.

I do. As for CC dangling that carrot... ugh. It's tiring, especially since they were involved 1 and 2 they have a history. It just feels wrong somehow.

[DaynaPhile]

The smart stuff has been discussed to death. How about some fluff details? Either I'm reaching, or I noticed a lot of semi quotes and old ep title names dropped. Off the top of my head, we had the word Hellbound, End Game, Musings (while the cigarette smoking man was the one doing the musing) and the phrase "run out of road" (I believe that was in Drive) Did anyone else feel like they were trying to cram a snip of a lot of old eps in there? Just me?

Reyes...just tell Scully it's you, dammit. Quit with the coyness, it never really was something you did. I was hoping for something better out of her. I kind of liked her back in the day.

The second Scully said she didn't know where William was, boom, there's the UFO. Gee, hit us over the heat with the idea that William is probably in there whydontcha?

I have overall mixed feelings about this last one. Most pronounced is that I'm royal pissed that Mulder and Scully were essentially apart the entire time. Not cool. Whatever they're doing together, whether it's sniffing out bile coated underground tunnels, driving to boondocks USA and tossing out crazy theories mile after mile, or nearly kissing in the empty hallway...I don't care. Just keep the two of them on screen together. It's not that hard of a formula.

[Juice4Cheeze]

Reyes...just tell Scully it's you, dammit. Quit with the coyness, it never really was something you did. I was hoping for something better out of her. I kind of liked her back in the day.

I know, right ? The thing that bothered me about that ... is one of the reasons, arguably, they didn't just have her tell Scully on the phone, "It's me, Monica Reyes," is because they wanted to do a reveal for the audience.

 

However ... the opening credits showed that Anabeth Gish was in the episode. So anyone to whom the reveal of "Hey, Reyes is in this epi ! They brought her back !" would actually mean anything, anyone who was paying attention to the opening credits would have already realized she was going to be in this episode. So the wait on the reveal that it was Monica Reyes fell flat. I knew the moment I heard the voice it was Gish's voice, and anyone who is a fan of the show would probably have recognized her voice as well, let alone the fact that her appearance would be anticipated by the mention of Gish's name in the opening sequences. So that was a wasted reveal, imo. The coyness served no purpose and didn't build up anything.

[LaChavalina]

At this point, I'm mostly interested in William. Since he'd only be 15 now, I worry this is a lead-in to a two year wait for a new movie or season where he'd be more adult and able to take part in any attempt to rescue civilization.

 

BTW, didn't one of the films confirm that Mulder was William's biological father? Or did I imagine that?

[madam magpie]

At this point, I'm mostly interested in William. Since he'd only be 15 now, I worry this is a lead-in to a two year wait for a new movie or season where he'd be more adult and able to take part in any attempt to rescue civilization.

BTW, didn't one of the films confirm that Mulder was William's biological father? Or did I imagine that?

Yes. Mulder calls William "our son" in "I Want to Believe."

[spritz]

I think it would be interesting to see someone else take the helm of X-Files ... but utilize the same crew as much as possible.

 

This series, this franchise, has run its course. They could give JJ Abrams, or whomever else, a try at reviving this franchise, but I don't think anyone could make the show really compelling like it once was.

 

I was happy that the six part event provided the viewers with the motives of the CSM as well as with the explanation of Scully's abduction and her alien dna.  I may not necessarily find the explanation and science plausible, but at least the explanation was given. The conspiracy had, for the most part, been uncovered. That is good enough for me.

 

The cliffhanger didn't bother me. If that is how the franchise ends with nothing more, that would be OK with me.

 

I would add, one of the reasons we watched X-Files differently back then, is because conspiracies were hiding behind every corner, and many of them were verified fact. In some ways, the X-Files was a source of information ... it fed off this idea that conspiracies were all around us, just beyond our grasp while pulling strings behind our backs. The information age of the internet, and the common place nature of conspiracies now, have somewhat diminished our awe and wonder at such things. What lies in Area 51 ? We have better things to do, and plus, there are dozens of documentaries on it. Aliens ? Sure, pick your version: you want someone with tall hair telling you about them, or a former astronaut ? It's too common place and at our finger tips. However it doesn't mean they don't still exist ... Carter still treated them like they were "mysterious" in this short series, the stuff of crackpots ... they no longer are. I think the crux of X-Files is conspiracy, not aliens ... they need to play off conspiracy differently to have a fresh reboot. Dig at what may still cause that wonder in a person over the conspiracies around them.

The X-Files was sort of a cutting edge show when it first came on the scene, for the reasons that you mentioned. But times have changed. Since then, we have been saturated with shows, movies and documentaries about the paranormal and about conspiracies. For any paranormal conspiracy type of show to stand out these days, it will have to rise above the clutter. I don't think an X-Files reboot, if there is to be one, would do that, especially not if the reboot has dull tired characters like Agents Miller and Einstein, the Mulder and Scully wannabes.

 

I wonder how many of those viewers, who never watched the show before but who watched the six part event, were wowed by this miniseries and became new fans of the series.

[spaulding]

I do. As for CC dangling that carrot... ugh. It's tiring, especially since they were involved 1 and 2 they have a history. It just feels wrong somehow.

 

Oh, I care about their romantic relationship.  I would like for them to have a Happily Ever After, but I'm OK with them being apart at this point.

 

I agree with how Carter treats their romance.  Each time he writes about M&S's intimate relationship, it's like he is starting all over again.  He forgets that the chemistry is there, forgets their romantic history and, and forgets that William is biologically their child. 

 

He needs to move past teasers.  M&S could be in an adult relationship that works and could still be involved in the XFiles. 

[madam magpie]

I don't think he's teasing or forgetting. He's just not focusing on the relationship aspect at all and he doesn't have them talk about it. The writer obviously doesn't want married bliss for his leads. I think that's fine. The reality is that many relationships don't work, and most people don't stay together. After 20+ years, I can see why Mulder and Scully wouldn't be able to make their relationship work in a "happily ever after" sort of way, why they'd struggle or drift in and out of each other's lives. What the audience seems to object to is that they don't talk about it constantly, but I like that. I love Mulder/Scully together, but I don't watch this show for a love story or relationship drama. I do think that a lot of the charm and fun of the show comes from their relationship and them interacting/debating/disagreeing/etc., so I really like the scenes of them together. But they only didn't work together the last two episodes. The first four they did.

Edited February 25, 2016 by madam magpie

[Juice4Cheeze]

This series, this franchise, has run its course. They could give JJ Abrams, or whomever else, a try at reviving this franchise, but I don't think anyone could make the show really compelling like it once was.

 

I was happy that the six part event provided the viewers with the motives of the CSM as well as with the explanation of Scully's abduction and her alien dna.  I may not necessarily find the explanation and science plausible, but at least the explanation was given. The conspiracy had, for the most part, been uncovered. That is good enough for me.

 

The cliffhanger didn't bother me. If that is how the franchise ends with nothing more, that would be OK with me.

 

The X-Files was sort of a cutting edge show when it first came on the scene, for the reasons that you mentioned. But times have changed. Since then, we have been saturated with shows, movies and documentaries about the paranormal and about conspiracies. For any paranormal conspiracy type of show to stand out these days, it will have to rise above the clutter. I don't think an X-Files reboot, if there is to be one, would do that, especially not if the reboot has dull tired characters like Agents Miller and Einstein, the Mulder and Scully wannabes.

 

I'm not sure it's totally run it's course. Again, look at a show like Fringe (again, Abrams). Fringe very obviously had X-Files as an inspiration, and used it's format to a degree with much of it's filler and MOTW episodes. However it took the "conspiracy" in a totally different direction, and it worked, imo.

 

I think for X-Files to do the same, the series would have to do something similar ... move beyond government conspiracies, or at least make them more obvious and not focus on them as the big reveal. Move beyond "aliens !" or perhaps have a different take on the alien issue, as Fringe did. As far as the characters ... yes, Miller and Einstein are tiresome and predictable. I could see Mulder still being a crucial figure in such a series, as his beliefs are pliable and I could see refocusing his passions plausible. Scully, interestingly ... I may suggest SHE has run her course. Scully isn't as pliable, imo. Mulder is like a dog with a bone when it comes to chasing things down rabbit holes. But to see Scully go in a completely different direction wouldn't be as plausible, imo. Her continued skepticism may grow too predictable and tiresome. It's not that Scully couldn't have a critical role in a complete X-Files upgrade, but it would be something more of a backburner role I may imagine. Someone like Mulder needs a new partner, one that challenges him to go into undiscovered country, not attempt to ground him into old ones. Miller and Einstein aren't sell-able, and yes, are tired.

 

So I think it's still possible to make it compelling, because at least a few of the characters are still compelling in their own right. And Mulder especially ... Mulder is still waiting to service the front lines of the mysteries of the universe. Scully, was not, and it comes across in her continued demeanor. William could be a great angle, depending on where they go with it, so long as they avoid the classic "good parents, child who turned to the dark side in their absence" theme.

 

I wonder how many of those viewers, who never watched the show before but who watched the six part event, were wowed by this miniseries and became new fans of the series.

I'd be interested to know that as well.

[supposebly]

 

Move beyond "aliens !" or perhaps have a different take on the alien issue, as Fringe did.

 

I forgot about Fringe. But yes, this show needs to go beyond OMG there are aliens! and actually deal with them and make up their minds what the hell they are are here for. I think we are way past the point of OMG! a spaceship! We know! We've seen it! Many times! Including Scully!

 

I think Scully has moved past the scepticism, she just isn't on board with jumping to conclusions like Mulder did in the first episode. That's why her back and forth in this last one was so aggravating. She's about the evidence and she jumped to conclusions without anything to back it up. So, I do think she would be a useful character. Now I'm thinking, for the future, the X-files division could be some sort of FBI division that deals with the outcome of alien incursions and interference? Outwardly not accepted but legitimized and funded properly. Headed by Skinner. So Mulder would be part of a conspiracy, just one that's about covering the real purpose of the division.

[AntiBeeSpray]

Oh, I care about their romantic relationship.  I would like for them to have a Happily Ever After, but I'm OK with them being apart at this point.

 

I agree with how Carter treats their romance.  Each time he writes about M&S's intimate relationship, it's like he is starting all over again.  He forgets that the chemistry is there, forgets their romantic history and, and forgets that William is biologically their child. 

 

He needs to move past teasers.  M&S could be in an adult relationship that works and could still be involved in the XFiles. 

 

I'm not so much. Guess I'm just tired of his games.

 

Word. But to be fair, he remembered in MS II. Scully mentioned about it.

 

Definitely.

I don't think he's teasing or forgetting. He's just not focusing on the relationship aspect at all and he doesn't have them talk about it. The writer obviously doesn't want married bliss for his leads. I think that's fine. The reality is that many relationships don't work, and most people don't stay together. After 20+ years, I can see why Mulder and Scully wouldn't be able to make their relationship work in a "happily ever after" sort of way, why they'd struggle or drift in and out of each other's lives. What the audience seems to object to is that they don't talk about it constantly, but I like that. I love Mulder/Scully together, but I don't watch this show for a love story or relationship drama. I do think that a lot of the charm and fun of the show comes from their relationship and them interacting/debating/disagreeing/etc., so I really like the scenes of them together. But they only didn't work together the last two episodes. The first four they did.

 

The odd thing, the latest book set had a story where they (M & S) were married and Scully some how got pregnant again. I heard about this on another forum I'm on. So it seems as if he's not against it. But it's still odd.

 

I don't need wedded bliss, just some sanity. So thank a'lien for the Morgans and Wong. They gave fans some of it. Since CC is so hard set on having M & S work apart. That bugged me more to be honest.

 

Well some fans do. I don't mind the debating, etc., and other shows such as Bones have continued that pattern, while moving their characters into a good relationship. Having them together did not ruin it.

[madam magpie]

I don't think having Mulder and Scully together would necessarily ruin anything either. It could easily be done. But I also don't think it's necessary. People (here? I don't read many forums) want Carter to write a different story than he wants to write, that's all. I mean, why not watch something else then? It's amazing to me that people continue to watch something they hate so much. Seems like a waste of time. Though I did watch Nashville for a lot longer than I should have, so I sort of get the draw when you like the actors. But I mean...I didn't watch a decade of it! I think some of the audience turned The X-Files into something it never was and now is mad about it. If what you want is love among aliens and weirdness, I mean...maybe something like Fringe is better at separating its leads in less irritating ways. (I also loved Fringe, FYI, minus all of Olivia's crying and misery in the last season.) That's clearly a story in which the writers want the leads to live happily ever after, even if they're blocked a lot of the time. That's just not the story Carer wants to write. (I don't know about books; I just watch the show and movies.)

I do wish he'd spread out the episodes where they were separated, but I also really liked the interaction between Scully and Einstein in the finale. And the main reason I like this show at all is Scully (alone, with Mulder, whatever). Gillian Anderson was always a treasure and a great find. So I also didn't mind the separation much.

Edited February 25, 2016 by madam magpie

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I don't expect wedded or any other kind of bliss for M&S. They are two smart, headstrong people who, most importantly, actually like challenging each other. That's a recipe for something passionate but not for a relationship without conflict.  Being "broken up" didn't bother me, because they never really "break up," they just take a break from each other. And the reasons for them not being together actually did make sense in terms of where each was emotionally.  (To some extent, it mirrors the real life events of the actors and the show - CC, GA, DD, etc. all took a 7 year break from The X-Files and the relationships among all of them that it fostered).

 

But I don't think that CC has as much of a handle on what creates tension between Mulder and Scully in the same way that some of the other writes (like Morgan and Wong, Gilligan, etc) do. He seems to think that the tension between them is external to them, and can only emerge if they aren't together romantically.  But the dramatic tension that exists between these two characters is always there, whether they are sleeping together or living together or not because it is actually internal to their personalities and their relationship.  I mean, it was still there between them in the episode that showed them most together during this season, Home Again.  He doesn't need to keep them apart in order for them to angst away at each other.

 

People (here? I don't read many forums) want Carter to write a different story than he wants to write, that's all. I mean, why not watch something else then? It's amazing to me that people continue to watch something they hate so much.

 

 

While I do agree that some people seem to hatewatch and seemed determined to dislike everything about this season, I don't think it is fair to say that everyone who has criticisms of Carter's choices here are doing so because a). they want him to tell a different story and b). they hate everything he did.  Part of what is great about TXF - multiple writers with different visions of their relationship and the story get to put their spin on it - is also part of what is frustrating about it. For me, I watch My Struggle, and I see a couple who is broken up. But then I watch Home Again, and I see a couple who seems very much together. There's a little bit of whiplash.

Edited February 25, 2016 by eleanorofaquitaine

[AntiBeeSpray]

I don't think having Mulder and Scully together would necessarily ruin anything either. It could be done. But I also don't think it's necessary. People (here? I don't read many forums) want Carter to write a different story than he wants to write, that's all. I mean, why not watch something else then? It's amazing to me that people continue to watch something they hate so much. Seems like a waste of time. Though I did watch Nashville for a lot longer than I should have, so I sort of get the draw when you like the actors. But I mean...I didn't watch a decade of it! I think some of the audience turned The X-Files into something it never was and now is mad about it. If what you want is love among aliens and weirdness, I mean...maybe something like Fringe is better at separating its leads in less irritating ways. That's clearly a story in which the writers want the leads to live happily ever after, even if they're blocked a lot of the time. That's just not the story Carer wants to write. (I don't know about books; I just watch the show and movies.)

I do wish he'd spread out the episodes where they were separated, but I also really liked the interaction between Scully and Einstein in the finale. And the main reason I like this show at all is Scully (alone, with Mulder, whatever). Gillian Anderson was always a treasure and a great find. So I also didn't mind the separation much.

 

Thing is, there are fans who think it's natural. As for watching something else, very easy to say... very hard for people to do. Some fans have been around for over 20 years. That's a very long time. Nope. I might give it a shot, but overall it's not for me. XF was my love. For a long time, and it still is.

I don't expect wedded or any other kind of bliss for M&S. They are two smart, headstrong people who, most importantly, actually like challenging each other. That's a recipe for something passionate but not for a relationship without conflict.  Being "broken up" didn't bother me, because they never really "break up," they just take a break from each other. And the reasons for them not being together actually did make sense in terms of where each was emotionally.  (To some extent, it mirrors the real life events of the actors and the show - CC, GA, DD, etc. all took a 7 year break from The X-Files and the relationships among all of them that it fostered).

 

But I don't think that CC has as much of a handle on what creates tension between Mulder and Scully in the same way that some of the other writes (like Morgan and Wong, Gilligan, etc) do. He seems to think that the tension between them is external to them, and can only emerge if they aren't together romantically.  But the dramatic tension that exists between these two characters is always there, whether they are sleeping together or living together or not because it is actually internal to their personalities and their relationship.  I mean, it was still there between them in the episode that showed them most together during this season, Home Again.  He doesn't need to keep them apart in order for them to angst away at each other.

 

While I do agree that some people seem to hatewatch and seemed determined to dislike everything about this season, I don't think it is fair to say that everyone who has criticisms of Carter's choices here are doing so because a). they want him to tell a different story and b). they hate everything he did.  Part of what is great about TXF - multiple writers with different visions of their relationship and the story get to put their spin on it - is also part of what is frustrating about it. For me, I watch My Struggle, and I see a couple who is broken up. But then I watch Home Again, and I see a couple who seems very much together. There's a little bit of whiplash.

 

Very well put! I agree with you on it. I viewed it as a break as well.

 

Word. Yep. Definitely. 

[madam magpie]

I don't expect wedded or any other kind of bliss for M&S. They are two smart, headstrong people who, most importantly, actually like challenging each other. That's a recipe for something passionate but not for a relationship without conflict. Being "broken up" didn't bother me, because they never really "break up," they just take a break from each other. And the reasons for them not being together actually did make sense in terms of where each was emotionally. (To some extent, it mirrors the real life events of the actors and the show - CC, GA, DD, etc. all took a 7 year break from The X-Files and the relationships among all of them that it fostered).

But I don't think that CC has as much of a handle on what creates tension between Mulder and Scully in the same way that some of the other writes (like Morgan and Wong, Gilligan, etc) do. He seems to think that the tension between them is external to them, and can only emerge if they aren't together romantically. But the dramatic tension that exists between these two characters is always there, whether they are sleeping together or living together or not because it is actually internal to their personalities and their relationship. I mean, it was still there between them in the episode that showed them most together during this season, Home Again. He doesn't need to keep them apart in order for them to angst away at each other.

While I do agree that some people seem to hatewatch and seemed determined to dislike everything about this season, I don't think it is fair to say that everyone who has criticisms of Carter's choices here are doing so because a). they want him to tell a different story and b). they hate everything he did. Part of what is great about TXF - multiple writers with different visions of their relationship and the story get to put their spin on it - is also part of what is frustrating about it. For me, I watch My Struggle, and I see a couple who is broken up. But then I watch Home Again, and I see a couple who seems very much together. There's a little bit of whiplash.

It sounds then like your problem with it isn't Chris Carter, but too many cooks in the kitchen. Maybe the show needs more of a single vision, then, in the way they Aaron Sorkin does his stuff. But really, I don't notice whiplash. They have fluid relationship. Sometimes they're attached at the hip and wildly in love. Sometimes they cool. But they're always connected on some way. That feels consistent to me.

He doesn't need to, no, but it looks like he wants to, based on things he's said and how he writes the show. It might be cool for him to explain that, why he wants to separate them, especially since the show's successful premise was based on their interaction and contradictory relationship. But honestly, I struggle to care. That's not his bag...I mean...OK. I still enjoy the show.

Thing is, there are fans who think it's natural. As for watching something else, very easy to say... very hard for people to do. Some fans have been around for over 20 years.

It's TV, not a love affair. I do think it's pretty easy to do. I've been around for 20+ years as well. I also love it. But really, it's a television show. Edited February 25, 2016 by madam magpie

[AntiBeeSpray]

*A bit of a general mod note: This is getting a bit heated. So we all need to step back for a bit.

 

Temp locking it for awhile so it'll cool down.

[HalcyonDays]

Alright people...Let's get back to discussing the episode My Struggle II, and try to Be Civil with our discussions. Thanks.

[Juice4Cheeze]

I forgot about Fringe. But yes, this show needs to go beyond OMG there are aliens! and actually deal with them and make up their minds what the hell they are are here for. I think we are way past the point of OMG! a spaceship! We know! We've seen it! Many times! Including Scully!

 

I think Scully has moved past the scepticism, she just isn't on board with jumping to conclusions like Mulder did in the first episode. That's why her back and forth in this last one was so aggravating. She's about the evidence and she jumped to conclusions without anything to back it up. So, I do think she would be a useful character. Now I'm thinking, for the future, the X-files division could be some sort of FBI division that deals with the outcome of alien incursions and interference? Outwardly not accepted but legitimized and funded properly. Headed by Skinner. So Mulder would be part of a conspiracy, just one that's about covering the real purpose of the division.

 

Hmm ... that would be interesting. Basically have aliens be the main focus openly, and have X-Files folk investigate their interference ? Interesting.

 

One problem with that, imo, is that it makes the focus narrowed down, which X-Files didn't really ever do completely. Secondly, one thing X-Files did well was hint at explanations for the mysterious things that happen around us. It did take them to extremes, but still ... it had a plausibility while remaining a mystery, to some degree, from the general public. For something to go "public" in X-Files to where it's more or less accepted by the public, it takes one key aspect away from X-Files that it's always had: the shadows. And I think that's another reason this last episode felt a bit bogus to some fans, because it rushed the process of bringing what was in the shadows out into the open. One moment, it's a hidden conspiracy. The next moment, it's a nation wide pandemic with Tad explaining on national news that it's aliens, and a UFO appears over a bridge in broad view of everyone, etc.

 

If they do stick with aliens being out in the open, there will arguably still need to be a shadow element, something even bigger, more mysterious, still outside of the grasp of Mulder and Scully, etc ... to where the X-Files will still be needed to push the envelope, and not just investigate the new norm of worldwide knowledge about the existence of aliens and alien DNA in the general population. But I'm not sure what element could be added ...

 

Edited February 26, 2016 by Juice4Cheeze

[supposebly]

Ah, this is where I wasn't clear. I thought more like Fringe Division in Fringe. Known within the FBI but not to the public. I just thought, Mulder and Scully filed numerous reports on all kinds of phenomena, there were all these board meetings, something must have stuck, even with people who weren't part of the conspiracy. After this apocalypse, Skinner could be validated in heading this new shiny X-files division. No more A.D. but D.!

 

I'm sure someone could come up with an interesting mystery arc to run through 6 episodes that's more than some vague conspiracy that isn't really one for anyone anymore who's been paying attention since season 1.

 

ETA: Mulder then could be coming to terms with now being the man instead of trying to stick it to the man (or CSM), especially since that is more of a young man's game anyway. Scully could have a shiny new lab and a desk!

Edited February 26, 2016 by supposebly

[Ghost of TWOP Past]

And I think that's another reason this last episode felt a bit bogus to some fans, because it rushed the process of bringing what was in the shadows out into the open. One moment, it's a hidden conspiracy. The next moment, it's a nation wide pandemic... 

 

The revelation may have been sudden, but it was supposed to be so because this is the Pearl-Harbor-like first battle of the alien conquest of earth. You're free not to like it, of course, but I don't think it's fair to cite it as a fault of the episode because it was pretty much the whole point of the episode. :) 

 

If XF does become a series again, though, this could be a real problem. How could they go back to conspiracies and MOTWs right after a new Pearl Harbor? 

[Taryn74]

The revelation may have been sudden, but it was supposed to be so because this is the Pearl-Harbor-like first battle of the alien conquest of earth. You're free not to like it, of course, but I don't think it's fair to cite it as a fault of the episode because it was pretty much the whole point of the episode. :) 

 

If XF does become a series again, though, this could be a real problem. How could they go back to conspiracies and MOTWs right after a new Pearl Harbor? 

 

Hmmm, that's a good way of looking at it.  I like that.

 

And good question, too.

[Juice4Cheeze]

Ah, this is where I wasn't clear. I thought more like Fringe Division in Fringe. Known within the FBI but not to the public. I just thought, Mulder and Scully filed numerous reports on all kinds of phenomena, there were all these board meetings, something must have stuck, even with people who weren't part of the conspiracy. After this apocalypse, Skinner could be validated in heading this new shiny X-files division. No more A.D. but D.!

 

I'm sure someone could come up with an interesting mystery arc to run through 6 episodes that's more than some vague conspiracy that isn't really one for anyone anymore who's been paying attention since season 1.

 

ETA: Mulder then could be coming to terms with now being the man instead of trying to stick it to the man (or CSM), especially since that is more of a young man's game anyway. Scully could have a shiny new lab and a desk!

Oh I gotcha ... yeah I didn't get totally what you meant then. I thought you meant known to the FBI AND the public, not just within the FBI but not the public.

 

However, with the Pearl Harbor reveal that was the season ender (to quote the other poster) ... I don't know how they could "keep it within the FBI" any longer.

 

As far as Mulder coming to terms with being the man instead of trying to stick it to the man, should the series take such turns ... if the show were to take the route of pretty much investigating aliens which are now known within the FBI, but not the general public AND they manage to explain away the pandemic and UFO appearance to where the gen pop eats it up and writes it off, then Mulder would arguably become something even more than "the man" ... he is touching upon Men in Black territory ;-)

 

And I think spun properly, that could be a very interesting angle to take the X-Files. I'm not talking Will Smith or Jesse Ventura style, but in a more serious, humanized type of tone.

 

The revelation may have been sudden, but it was supposed to be so because this is the Pearl-Harbor-like first battle of the alien conquest of earth. You're free not to like it, of course, but I don't think it's fair to cite it as a fault of the episode because it was pretty much the whole point of the episode. :) 

 

If XF does become a series again, though, this could be a real problem. How could they go back to conspiracies and MOTWs right after a new Pearl Harbor? 

 

Which is partially what I was getting at in my earlier posts ... how can X-Files go back to the shadows once things are out in the light ? And this last episode seems to put things into a light that will be hard to spin into something else and not offend the intelligence of the viewer.

 

All in all, I actually liked this series and found it entertaining :) So I'm not one who is making "This sucked and they betrayed us !" noises, nor am I one who was drooling over every second. I was expecting a 7 out of 10 "I'm pleased feeling", and got a 6 out of 10, so I was happy :)

 

[AntiBeeSpray]

A new CC interview

 

Source: comingsoon.net

[SmithW6079]

Scully's giant forehead kept distracting me throughout the episode. All I could see was Eric Stoltz in "Mask."

Given the tenor of the times, where the Americans who actually and truly believe in all these conspiracies are no longer limited to nutjobs, is it irresponsible to feed that paranoia?

This was just a giant ball of suck. When the UFO descended, I laaauuuughed, which I don't think was the reaction they were going for.

Edited March 2, 2016 by SmithW6079

[millennium]

This series, this franchise, has run its course. They could give JJ Abrams, or whomever else, a try at reviving this franchise, but I don't think anyone could make the show really compelling like it once was.

 

Each week of the revival, I found myself wishing the project had been given to the team that brought us Fringe.  I wasn't a great fan of Fringe's final season, but everything before that had the serious, thought provoking, part scientific, part mythic, and yet human touch that I always associated with the X-Files.  I'm realizing now that Fringe, at least in spirit, was as close to a true X-Files revival that we'll ever see.

 

I suppose it's not Chris Carter's fault that he can't hear his muse anymore.   Writers far better than him have lost their way over the years -- Stephen King, for example, who hasn't written anything worth reading in twenty years or more.   But they keep going, kidding themselves that they still have something important to contribute.  Nobody ever tells them the truth -- that they suck now -- because the people in positions to say something like that and be heard are usually too financially invested in the delusion to risk jeopardizing it. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

 

Each week of the revival, I found myself wishing the project had been given to the team that brought us Fringe.  I wasn't a great fan of Fringe's final season, but everything before that had the serious, thought provoking, part scientific, part mythic, and yet human touch that I always associated with the X-Files.  I'm realizing now that Fringe, at least in spirit, was as close to a true X-Files revival that we'll ever see.

 

I suppose it's not Chris Carter's fault that he can't hear his muse anymore.   Writers far better than him have lost their way over the years -- Stephen King, for example, who hasn't written anything worth reading in twenty years or more.   But they keep going, kidding themselves that they still have something important to contribute.  Nobody ever tells them the truth -- that they suck now -- because the people in positions to say something like that and be heard are usually too financially invested in the delusion to risk jeopardizing it. 

 

I disagree with you about Stephen King. I read his sequel to The Shining awhile back and it was pretty good. There are some recent stuff of his that isn't the best, but I could say the same about some of his older stuff too. So I think that any kind of 'muse' is kind of like an ocean, it ebbs and flows. Sometimes there's more of it, and sometimes not. At least he welcomes criticism and help for anything he didn't remember (he got some help for the Shining sequel, since there was some stuff he forgot).

 

As for Fringe, I'm willing to give it a shot. At first I thought it was too much of an XF ripoff to give it a second thought. But after hearing about how it developed, I might try to go back and watch it.

 

JJ Abrams though... I'm not all thrilled with him. He just seems rather inconsistent some how. Does a project and then leaves it. Doesn't exactly leave me feeling comfortable with him. 

[Juice4Cheeze]

 

Each week of the revival, I found myself wishing the project had been given to the team that brought us Fringe.  I wasn't a great fan of Fringe's final season, but everything before that had the serious, thought provoking, part scientific, part mythic, and yet human touch that I always associated with the X-Files.  I'm realizing now that Fringe, at least in spirit, was as close to a true X-Files revival that we'll ever see.

I actually enjoyed the final season of Fringe to a degree ... it just felt rushed to me, was all. The introduction of too much, with not enough focus on some more critical answers and mythology. The expanded Fringe universe, however (comics, the Observer book, Walter's lab notes online for many of the Season 1 episodes, etc) helped to answer some of the questions, but still. I feel like just when Fringe started to show us it's realized potential, it got cut short due to being cancelled, so they rushed a bit of the final season. It still was enjoyable to me, however.

 

Sci-Fi channel had a short 6 show series called The Lost Room several years ago. THAT was excellent, in my opinion. Almost a cross between X-Files and Fringe. I wonder what X-Files could become in the hands of that team of writers, etc. FWIW, I believe you can still watch those epi's of the Lost Room free on Youtube.

 

As for Fringe, I'm willing to give it a shot. At first I thought it was too much of an XF ripoff to give it a second thought. But after hearing about how it developed, I might try to go back and watch it.

 

JJ Abrams though... I'm not all thrilled with him. He just seems rather inconsistent some how. Does a project and then leaves it. Doesn't exactly leave me feeling comfortable with him. 

 

IMO, the pilot of Fringe (Season 1, epi 1) was interesting ... then they went directly to X-Files for the next two episodes, with the MOTW format and little mythology. Episode 4 of Season 1, quickly brought us back to awesomeness and Fringe's own uniqueness, and in my opinion is one of the best hours of the genre ever produced. Fringe took it's time, however, but the reveals over the various seasons are worth it imo, and make Fringe stand out as a unique entity from X-files, for sure. You can see it's roots, but it goes to other levels. JJ Abrams does seem to brainstorm a project, lay some groundwork, and then move on, leaving it to others ... but with Fringe, I had little complaints, personally.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Juice4Cheeze

[90PercentGravity]

Given the tenor of the times, where the Americans who actually and truly believe in all these conspiracies are no longer limited to nutjobs, is it irresponsible to feed that paranoia?

This was just a giant ball of suck. When the UFO descended, I laaauuuughed, which I don't think was the reaction they were going for.

I'm pretty sure it's still just the nutcases.

[SparedTurkey]

They did Monica Reyes dirty in this episode. There is no way the character last left in 2000 would have followed CSM without nasty nasty blackmail in play. No. Way. She loved Scully way too much, delivered William among possible-nasty aliens/their followers, helped spring Mulder from prison....I can only assume she had a reason - like she knew CSM was onto Williams' whereabouts and joined him to spy/save William when needed. That's the only way I can reconcile it. That and they were banking on a season 11 because there is no way Scully would hear her confession of working for CSM and still call her a friend...let alone a trusted one.

 

Thats my hope anyway because if not...that would be exactly the role for Marita...who was turned away because they 'didn't have a part for her'.

[AntiBeeSpray]

They did Monica Reyes dirty in this episode. There is no way the character last left in 2000 would have followed CSM without nasty nasty blackmail in play. No. Way. She loved Scully way too much, delivered William among possible-nasty aliens/their followers, helped spring Mulder from prison....I can only assume she had a reason - like she knew CSM was onto Williams' whereabouts and joined him to spy/save William when needed. That's the only way I can reconcile it. That and they were banking on a season 11 because there is no way Scully would hear her confession of working for CSM and still call her a friend...let alone a trusted one.

 

Thats my hope anyway because if not...that would be exactly the role for Marita...who was turned away because they 'didn't have a part for her'.

 

Word. It made little to no sense to make Reyes that way.

 

Agreed. It makes no sense that they didn't bring her back for that part.

[festivus]

I thought the same and I never liked Monica. There better be something more to this.

[KaleyFirefly]

OK, they do realize that a vaccine and a cure are NOT the same thing, right? It seemed like Scully kept using the words interchangeably, which made no sense. 

 

I want to see another season just to wrap up this storyline, but I DO NOT want them to try to continue the X-Files with Miller and the annoying Einstein. We like Mulder and Scully and their relationship, not just any old agents with dark hair and red hair.

And can someone just shoot Cigarette Smoker already? Seriously.

[KaleyFirefly]

Just wanted to say thanks to all who posted. While we may not all agree on what the X-Files should be, it was great to hear from other fans since there aren't many in my RL. I will be taking a break from these boards now-and probably reading some cheesy fanfic. Hopefully, these boards will still be available for the next series and we can dissect the conclusion, William and the criminal lack of Skinner..unless the first scene next series is Mulder in the shower and Scully telling him about the weird dream she just had about the end of the world.

 

See you all in a year or so!

And Skinner in the shower

[90PercentGravity]

OK, they do realize that a vaccine and a cure are NOT the same thing, right? It seemed like Scully kept using the words interchangeably, which made no sense.

I want to see another season just to wrap up this storyline, but I DO NOT want them to try to continue the X-Files with Miller and the annoying Einstein. We like Mulder and Scully and their relationship, not just any old agents with dark hair and red hair.

And can someone just shoot Cigarette Smoker already? Seriously.

If it helps boost the body's natural immune system then it's vaccine even if it is given after the disease invades the body. (I.e. shingles vaccine)

[AntiBeeSpray]

OK, they do realize that a vaccine and a cure are NOT the same thing, right? It seemed like Scully kept using the words interchangeably, which made no sense. 

 

I want to see another season just to wrap up this storyline, but I DO NOT want them to try to continue the X-Files with Miller and the annoying Einstein. We like Mulder and Scully and their relationship, not just any old agents with dark hair and red hair.

And can someone just shoot Cigarette Smoker already? Seriously.

 

Yea that made me cringe. A cure ends a disease, virus, etc.; a vaccine offers protection.

 

Agreed. Keep them out. 

 

With a magnetite bullet! Get rid of him.

[wayne67]

So I've skipped this thread since I didn't watch the episode but what I got from it was pointless cliff hanger and convoluted world wide drama with a contrived solution at the last moment that somehow will solve everything in the last minute?

Any one actually recommend watching this episode ?

[AntiBeeSpray]

So I've skipped this thread since I didn't watch the episode but what I got from it was pointless cliff hanger and convoluted world wide drama with a contrived solution at the last moment that somehow will solve everything in the last minute?

Any one actually recommend watching this episode ?

 

If you don't mind fast paced action adventure, then it's the ep for you. I didn't mind it for that, but a lot of the dialogue was... definitely CC. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

So I've skipped this thread since I didn't watch the episode but what I got from it was pointless cliff hanger and convoluted world wide drama with a contrived solution at the last moment that somehow will solve everything in the last minute?

Any one actually recommend watching this episode ?

 

Of the CC-written episodes, I actually thought that this one was the best (not a high hurdle, to be sure).  I liked the cliff-hanger, which is class X-Files to me, and the notion of a human-engineered pandemic was a credible extension of the mytharc.  I'm not saying this episode was great, but I actually found it genuinely suspenseful, especially at the end.  So yes, I would recommend it (even while wishing that Carter had scrapped Babylon entirely and allowed this story to unfold over a couple of episodes, instead of just one).

Edited March 9, 2016 by eleanorofaquitaine

[Sandman]

I found the episode suspenseful, but I thought Scully was acting a little too panic-stricken; it didn't seem in character. Maybe it was the compressed timeline of the episode, but Scully seemed to be leaping to conclusions based on very little evidence.

 

They did Monica Reyes dirty in this episode. There is no way the character last left in 2000 would have followed CSM without nasty nasty blackmail in play. No. Way. She loved Scully way too much, delivered William among possible-nasty aliens/their followers, helped spring Mulder from prison....

 

Until you articulated it this way, I didn't know what was bothering me so much about Monica's characterization in the episode, but, this is it exactly.

 

I don't know -- I think I'm just over the Smoking Man's brand of insistently vague menace. I don't think his always being at the top of the world's pile, but never quite following through on his hinted-at threats, is something that can be maintained effectively over a twenty-year period. Even if he now has a face that makes him look like the evil lovechild of Lon Chaney and Mr. Potato Head.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Sandman

[Andromeda]

CSM always brings it. I liked his scenes;  a tired, cynical, smirking ol' Satan, still going up against all powers that be out of sheer cussedness. When Mulder asked if he was playing God and he laughed "Oh, no, not God"? That was the best line of the episode. He's the epitome of humanity's dark side, the walking embodiment of Too Mean To Die. All you can do with him is refuse, which Fox did, and good for him. 

 

As for the rest of this, though... nothing was better than this miniseries at pointing out that X Files, The Show could only have become what it was during its precise original broadcast era of the early nineties through the beginning of the 21st century. The spooky atmosphere blended with just enough shadowy history/science to become plausible could only have had its allure during the rise, in America, of home computers and the earliest electronic billboards (the best proof of this, in my mind, is that no episodes dated more quickly and unwatchably than the "internet" and "gaming" episodes.) People were riding the technology wave but it was still imperfectly understood enough to be able to support all sorts of shadowy corners and dimly lit alleyways, story-wise. 

 

Nowadays, though? Google and having more information in your phone than the world's greatest minds had access to previously mean that people just aren't able to buy what the show is selling, as much. It's simply too easy to spot the glaring errors/time skips/scientific impossibilities, even to the average bear. The Were-Monster and other standalones worked not only because they were hilariously funny but because they acknowledged that the show simply had to work harder to find the pockets of weird that could be accepted as "Okay, it's poooooossssible" by the audience, like the idea that a lizard person hangs out in the woods when he's not hibernating for ten thousand years. 

 

I could see them trying to work around modern day ease of information access but that New World Order? It's here, and it's rearranged how and what volume of information we can fetch to our eyes and hands in an instant. So the overarching mytharc? It needs to evolve, pronto.

Finally got around to watching. I hated the first episode, so I wasn't looking forward to the continuation of that nonsense.

 

I feel exactly like you do. CC is known for trolling the Internet looking for ideas, and in E1 and E6, he threw every whacky conspiracy theory he could find in he soup, stirred it up, and came up with a wholly unsatisfying meal. (Microwaves? FEMA trailers? Aluminum?! Are all of these things supposed to be true at the same time?)

 

I enjoyed episodes 2-5, though. I think CC should forget trying to repeat his lightning-in-a-bottle success of the mytharc episodes -- different time, different attitudes. Instead, stick to MOTW! I love those.

 

I liked Miller and Einstein, too, and wouldn't mind a reboot with them (despite being a HUGE M/S shipper back in the day.) Though I hate Einstein's name, pulls me out of the moment every time I hear it.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Andromeda

[AntiBeeSpray]

Finally got around to watching. I hated the first episode, so I wasn't looking forward to the continuation of that nonsense.

 

I feel exactly like you do. CC is known for trolling the Internet looking for ideas, and in E1 and E6, he threw every whacky conspiracy theory he could find in he soup, stirred it up, and came up with a wholly unsatisfying meal. (Microwaves? FEMA trailers? Aluminum?! Are all of these things supposed to be true at the same time?)

 

I enjoyed episodes 2-5, though. I think CC should forget trying to repeat his lightning-in-a-bottle success of the mytharc episodes -- different time, different attitudes. Instead, stick to MOTW! I love those.

 

I liked Miller and Einstein, too, and wouldn't mind a reboot with them (despite being a HUGE M/S shipper back in the day.) Though I hate Einstein's name, pulls me out of the moment every time I hear it.

 

I liked eps 2-4.

 

Agreed on how he handled the myth arc this go. It felt so scattered, that it was distracting.

[AudienceofOne]

Were we meant to understand any of that?  The science in the episode was unintelligible, even for this show.  Alien DNA gave Scully extra nucleotides which stopped her immune system from being deactivated by aluminum and microwaves.  And if Scully's DNA is amplified that would provide a vaccine to the virus that shut down the entire immune system leaving them susceptible to every microorganism around.  I feel my high school biology grade being retroactively lowered.

 

Chemtrails

 

*sigh*

[AudienceofOne]

The problem is that this isn't the early 90s. Back then, devoting a show to the emerging zeitgeist of conspiracy ideation was new and interesting. And the internet was barely a part of people's lives. You could scour popular culture and urban myths and say "Hey, what if this was true?" and have it be benign entertainment.

 

But it's now 2015. This is not an emerging zeitgeist. The internet is an integral part of people's lives. And people actually believe this shit. So when they talk about the government using vaccines to secretly inject us with something that will kill us, it's not just fun fantasy. It's every half-baked moron who murders their kid by failing to provide them with adequate medical care.

 

I found this episode almost unwatchable because it was like they scooped the scum off the internet, constructed random sentences with the buzzwords and had them come out of people's mouths as truth. I deal with that scum every day. It's every batshit person who tweets me to tell me that chemtrails are causing climate change or vaccination is a Zionist plot or the UN is plotting with Obama to install One World Government for the elites.

 

The Truth Is Out There. And it's apparently a Jenny McCarthy blog.

[ganesh]

I don't really care about ship or not, if they made it canon it wouldn't bother me, even though it's essentially canon. However, it's just questionable to me that the literal backbone of the franchise, Mulder and Scully, are kept apart for the finale. 

 

 

The problem is that this isn't the early 90s.

 

I also got the impression that the show was produced for 1997. They had Tad on youtube to keep it current, but at the same time, it just didn't seem contemporary to me. 

 

I feel like the series wasn't put together with the knowledge of a modern tv audience. 

 

I actually had someone talk to me about chemtrails irl. I thought they were joking. It was weird because we talked a lot of times before that came up. 

 

I've been always that CSM is a minor player who was smart enough to play up to the right people, who was also smart enough to trickle it down to the X Files, so he could figure out what actually was going on. I feel like that's how it's been played for 10 years and how it was played now. I never got why Mulder could figure out how to go over his head. 

[AudienceofOne]

 

I actually had someone talk to me about chemtrails irl. I thought they were joking. It was weird because we talked a lot of times before that came up. 

 

 

There is nothing more earnest and well meaning on this Earth than chemtrail crazy. Climate change deniers are motivated by either money or cognitive dissonance - they're paid to pretend they don't believe it or believing it means they have to change something they value about their lives or they can't admit it's true because it challenges their ontology. Anti vaxxers have been emotionally manipulated by liars and are frequently extremely selfish i.e. my kid is more important than your kid. But chemtrail crazy really believe this terrible thing is happening and they have to warn everybody and they get very upset that people don't listen. Their TLs on their FB and Twitter accounts are filled with endless photos of evil clouds. I wish I was even joking. Photo after photo of clouds with some mournful subtitle about this horror being perpetuated on the world by these evil clouds. They are the most genuine of the conspiracy fruit loops because their campaigning is motivated almost solely by altruism.