Morning Joe: All Episodes Talk

[oakville]

Kristen Solis is back. She said that Democrats should be worried about losing White Millenial support.

Kristen said that she has been warning the GOP about losing millenial support. This will bite the GOP in the long term.

She thanked Mika & Joe for letting her appear on the show.

Joe said Asian Americans used to support the GOP.

[ButterQueen]

I had to watch yesterday's show to see Joe's rant about McCain.  I loved it.  He was spot on.  While I don't agree with McCain's politics much, I admire the hell out of him, not only for casting the controversial NO vote on health care reform, but for his heroic service to our country.  The poor man is fighting for his life, and Trump has people booing him.  High five to Joe for that rant.

God, Mika reminds me of a toddler who keeps trying to insert themselves in a conversation.  Please Mika, just speak up, and stop interrupting everyone with your snarky comments.  And how rude to call out the production team for laughing.  She's a real pill, and nowhere near a serious journalist.

Did Willie disappear this morning?

[oakville]

  On 9/27/2017 at 12:52 PM, stormy said:

I guess Harold Ford was there to talk about something he actually knows about. Getting beat by retiring Senator Bob Corker. But he still adds nothing.

If Josh Earnest is right that the Democrats have a clue, they're not showing that. They've been clueless since rallying around Hillary.

I hate when I have to agree with Joe. But, IMO, he was right this morning. Democrats don't like seeing Chuck and Nancy yucking it up with trump. That photo op made me ill.

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Why didn't they ask Ford Jr if he would run again in Tennessee for Senate in 2018. Isn't he considered to be a moderate Democrat? During the transition period, Joe said that Ford Jr was being considered for a cabinet post in the Trump administration.

[teddysmom]

  On 9/26/2017 at 9:44 PM, oakville said:

It's important for the media to have inside information , so they can stay relevant.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Mark Halperin, relevant??  Mark you are so funny!!!  If it wasn't for John Heileman you'd be selling teeshirts at Ann Coulter speaking events. 

[teddysmom]

  On 9/27/2017 at 12:52 PM, stormy said:

I hate when I have to agree with Joe. But, IMO, he was right this morning. Democrats don't like seeing Chuck and Nancy yucking it up with trump. That photo op made me ill.

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That's because Joe is so immature he doesn't understand that sometimes you have to make nice and pretend you like some asshole to get shit done.  Being a dick all the time nets you nothing.  

"Catch more flies with honey than vinegar". 

Yes, it sucks but we all have to be nice to people we think are assholes from time to time. It's called keeping a job, putting up with in laws, working in politics, etc. 

[Mumbles]

  On 9/27/2017 at 12:57 PM, oakville said:

Why didn't they ask Ford Jr if he would run again in Tennessee for Senate in 2018

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Lol, that sounds like the kind of stupid idea the DNC would come up with - run a guy who hasn't been in the state for a decade and who was barely there when he won the first time (inheriting Daddy's seat.)

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Meacham brought up an obscure race in Pennsylvania to explain the rise of Clinton in 1992.

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Aw, it wasn't *that* obscure. Thornburgh was Bush 41's AG and golden boy. Wofford was a genteel JFK acolyte and Peace Corps director. At the time, right after the Gulf War, everyone thought Bush could do anything he wanted, including getting his boy elected for that special election. It was a huge surprise when he couldn't, and the first sign of cracks in Bush's armour.

That said I don't know why Meacham brought it up. It wasn't particularly on point. Meacham is not one of my favorite guests on this show. I tried to read one of his books once and found it pedantic and lifeless.

[oakville]

  On 9/27/2017 at 1:41 PM, teddysmom said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Mark Halperin, relevant??  Mark you are so funny!!!  If it wasn't for John Heileman you'd be selling teeshirts at Ann Coulter speaking events. 

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Aren't Halperin & Heilemann considered to be the leaders of the "Gang of 500" elite political journalists that cover Washington politics? Aren't they co authors of the "Game Change " books? Do you think that Heilemann does most of the writing? I don't know.

  On 9/27/2017 at 2:28 PM, Mumbles said:

Lol, that sounds like the kind of stupid idea the DNC would come up with - run a guy who hasn't been in the state for a decade and who was barely there when he won the first time (inheriting Daddy's seat.)

Aw, it wasn't *that* obscure. Thornburgh was Bush 41's AG and golden boy. Wofford was a genteel JFK acolyte and Peace Corps director. At the time, right after the Gulf War, everyone thought Bush could do anything he wanted, including getting his boy elected for that special election. It was a huge surprise when he couldn't, and the first sign of cracks in Bush's armour.

That said I don't know why Meacham brought it up. It wasn't particularly on point. Meacham is not one of my favorite guests on this show. I tried to read one of his books once and found it pedantic and lifeless.

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Joe asked Meacham if these special elections have any national consequences. Meacham said they usually don't but the race in Pennsylvania in 1991 did because it foretold the rise of Clinton in 1992. Carville helped the Democrat win the Pensylvania race.

Wasn't Ford Jr a popular Democratic Congressman in Tennessee before running for the Senate in 2006?

I was watching Chuck Todd yesterday afternoon & he said that Tennessee is in "play" for the Democrats because Corker is retiring.

Edited September 27, 2017 by oakville

[oakville]

  On 9/27/2017 at 2:13 PM, teddysmom said:

That's because Joe is so immature he doesn't understand that sometimes you have to make nice and pretend you like some asshole to get shit done.  Being a dick all the time nets you nothing.  

"Catch more flies with honey than vinegar". 

Yes, it sucks but we all have to be nice to people we think are assholes from time to time. It's called keeping a job, putting up with in laws, working in politics, etc. 

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I liked seeing Kasie! push back against Josh Earnest. She warned him that there could be a primary revolt against the Democrats in 2018. She said that Bernie Sanders supporters could go after Dianne Feinstein in 2018. She said that the party is oblivious to the rise of the Sanders wing.

Someone on the panel called Feinstein & Pelosi 'sellouts" to the Democrats for working with Trump.

Mika took a cheap shot at Hillary out of the blue for her comments on Puerto Rico. She said Hillary should bring her book tour to Puerto Rico to get attention.

I find it very strange that Hillary has gone on other MSNBC shows to discuss her book but has not appeared on Morning Joe . I know Mika was critical of Hillary during the primaries but she did support her during the election.

It's weird that for a top political show watched by "influencers" , Mika & Joe are at war with Trump & Clinton. They never really had Obama on the show during his Presidency or very much during the campaigns.

[ButterQueen]

  On 9/27/2017 at 2:55 PM, oakville said:

I liked seeing Kasie! push back against Josh Earnest. She warned him that there could be a primary revolt against the Democrats in 2018. She said that Bernie Sanders supporters could go after Dianne Feinstein in 2018. She said that the party is oblivious to the rise of the Sanders wing.

Someone on the panel called Feinstein & Pelosi 'sellouts" to the Democrats for working with Trump.

Mika took a cheap shot at Hillary out of the blue for her comments on Puerto Rico. She said Hillary should bring her book tour to Puerto Rico to get attention.

I find it very strange that Hillary has gone on other MSNBC shows to discuss her book but has not appeared on Morning Joe . I know Mika was critical of Hillary during the primaries but she did support her during the election.

It's weird that for a top political show watched by "influencers" , Mika & Joe are at war with Trump & Clinton. They never really had Obama on the show during his Presidency or very much during the campaigns.

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It appears Joe & Mika aren't really sure who they like, and both need to shut up about Hillary and Obama.

FTR, I like Hillary and Obama....but move along daily news show people!

[Mumbles]

  Quote

Wasn't Ford Jr a popular Democratic Congressman in Tennessee before running for the Senate in 2006?

I was watching Chuck Todd yesterday afternoon & he said that Tennessee is in "play" for the Democrats because Corker is retiring.

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Not sure how popular he was, but he had an easy time of getting the seat, given that it was his father's seat and his father's political machine controlled the district. He hadn't even graduated from law school when he announced for it, and campaigned on weekends. He was considered a bit of a rising star, giving the keynote at the 1996 convention (amazing to think about, given that he is barely awake, and so mumbly, when he appears on this show.)

[teddysmom]

  On 9/27/2017 at 3:04 PM, ButterQueen said:

I find it very strange that Hillary has gone on other MSNBC shows to discuss her book but has not appeared on Morning Joe . I know Mika was critical of Hillary during the primaries but she did support her during the election.

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Could be why Mika's so pissy. They couldn't book HRC. She has done Joy, Rachel & Chris Hayes.  Maybe she doesn't want to get up at 5 am to sit with people who were so instrumental in normalizing Donald Trump.

Just spitballing here...

And please Mika, explain the logic of Hilary Clinton going on a book tour in Puerto Rico right now.  You're not very pretty when you act so jealous and petty, you know. 

I recall you hawking your books from time to time. Why don't YOU take your Know Your Worth party to San Juan?

Edited September 27, 2017 by teddysmom

[stormy]

Why does no one go after the rude inhumane PR tweets the fat ass made by pointing out how he bought Coco Beach Golf and Country Club there and oh, by the way left it bankrupt and the Puerto Ricans with a $32 million debt.

Edited September 27, 2017 by stormy

[RedheadZombie]

  On 9/27/2017 at 3:04 PM, ButterQueen said:

It appears Joe & Mika aren't really sure who they like, and both need to shut up about Hillary and Obama.

FTR, I like Hillary and Obama....but move along daily news show people!

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Joe seems overly obsessed with Bill Clinton.  I stopped watching for a while because Joe couldn't insult Trump, without somehow taking a swipe at Bill Clinton as well.  The worst is when he said he had to go to an emergency meeting at his sons' middle school, because slutty little girls were forcing blow jobs on the innocent, objecting boys.  All because of Clinton.  Give me a break.

[Mumbles]

  Quote

The worst is when he said he had to go to an emergency meeting at his sons' middle school, because slutty little girls were forcing blow jobs on the innocent, objecting boys.  All because of Clinton.  Give me a break.

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In Joe's defense, the Washington Post did a story back after the Lewinsky story broke about how DC middle schoolers were engaged in a lot of oral sex and explaining it away to their parents by saying it was okay because the president did it (classic Beltway children.) Google "Middle School Oral Sex Washington Post" (I would advise not to do so at work) and the story comes up. Is it bullshit? Probably. But Joe for once didn't come up with it on his own.

[ButterQueen]

  On 9/27/2017 at 4:34 PM, Mumbles said:

In Joe's defense, the Washington Post did a story back after the Lewinsky story broke about how DC middle schoolers were engaged in a lot of oral sex and explaining it away to their parents by saying it was okay because the president did it (classic Beltway children.) Google "Middle School Oral Sex Washington Post" (I would advise not to do so at work) and the story comes up. Is it bullshit? Probably. But Joe for once didn't come up with it on his own.

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Quite the stretch, but ok.

[oakville]

  On 9/27/2017 at 3:11 PM, teddysmom said:

Could be why Mika's so pissy. They couldn't book HRC. She has done Joy, Rachel & Chris Hayes.  Maybe she doesn't want to get up at 5 am to sit with people who were so instrumental in normalizing Donald Trump.

Just spitballing here...

And please Mika, explain the logic of Hilary Clinton going on a book tour in Puerto Rico right now.  You're not very pretty when you act so jealous and petty, you know. 

I recall you hawking your books from time to time. Why don't YOU take your Know Your Worth party to San Juan?

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Agreed. It's very bizarre that this show can't get top notch guests anymore. I have watched the show more closely this week since I have been off work. Mika & Joe don't see as well prepared for new guests. They rely on Barnicle, Ford Jr, Meacham, Halperin & Heilemann  who have been around for ages & don't really provide much new analysis.

I wonder if they had Trump on by default in 2015 because  he would come on the show all the time on the phone. ?

Perhaps, Mika & Joe think they don't have to work as hard now since the ratings in terms of total viewers have doubled since 2014. ? Will they even bother to try and get their contracts renewed?

I did like Mika & Joe promoting the new slogan Kasie!D.C, with T shirts. Kasie! liked it. There used to be a rock band called ACDC in the 1980's.

[oakville]

  On 9/27/2017 at 4:22 PM, RedheadZombie said:

Joe seems overly obsessed with Bill Clinton.  I stopped watching for a while because Joe couldn't insult Trump, without somehow taking a swipe at Bill Clinton as well.  The worst is when he said he had to go to an emergency meeting at his sons' middle school, because slutty little girls were forcing blow jobs on the innocent, objecting boys.  All because of Clinton.  Give me a break.

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Wow! It does seem to me that Mika & Joe are mad at everyone. Joe goes on daily rants against the GOP & Trump. He also complains about most Democrats. He likes McCain but sadly, his political career is almost over due to his poor health.

[teddysmom]

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Why does no one go after the rude inhumane PR tweets the fat ass made by pointing out how he bought Coco Beach Golf and Country Club there and oh, by the way left it bankrupt and the Puerto Ricans with a $32 million debt.

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If you like that, you'll love this. He's refusing to lift the Jones Law so ships can get into ports in PR because "people in shipping industry don't want me to". 

Let that sink in. 

[Drumpf1737]

  On 9/26/2017 at 2:39 PM, teddysmom said:

Kasich couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the directions were on the heel, so I'm pretty sure peaceful regime change in North Korea isn't in his wheelhouse. 

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This will go down in the top 5 best things I've ever read on this site or TWOP.

[teddysmom]

  On 9/27/2017 at 6:42 PM, Drumpf1737 said:

  On 9/26/2017 at 2:39 PM, teddysmom said:

Kasich couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the directions were on the heel, so I'm pretty sure peaceful regime change in North Korea isn't in his wheelhouse. 

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This will go down in the top 5 best things I've ever read on this site or TWOP.

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My dear old Dad used  to say it all the time, I love it too.  Sometimes people don't get it and I'll say "think about it" and then this expression of OOOH comes over their face. 

[millennium]

  On 9/27/2017 at 12:52 PM, stormy said:

 

I hate when I have to agree with Joe. But, IMO, he was right this morning. Democrats don't like seeing Chuck and Nancy yucking it up with trump. That photo op made me ill.

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I also agree.   I'm an Independent the same way Scarborough's an Independent, except I defected in protest from the other side several years ago.   Even so, the heart always looks back, and in this case mine did not like what it saw.    Suddenly it felt like like all the righteous outrage and condemnations those two have made since Trump's election were simply stagecraft.   I called Schumer's office last week and yelled at some staffer about it, because their ill-conceived debt ceiling deal gave the Republicans the opportunity they needed to fire another torpedo at the ACA.

[millennium]

  On 9/27/2017 at 5:11 PM, oakville said:

He likes McCain but sadly, his political career is almost over due to his poor health.

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That reality leaves little mystery about when the next attempt to take down Obamacare will happen, doesn't it?

[oakville]

  On 9/27/2017 at 7:02 PM, millennium said:

I also agree.   I'm an Independent the same way Scarborough's an Independent, except I defected in protest from the other side several years ago.   Even so, the heart always looks back, and in this case mine did not like what it saw.    Suddenly it felt like like all the righteous outrage and condemnations those two have made since Trump's election were simply stagecraft.   I called Schumer's office last week and yelled at some staffer about it, because their ill-conceived debt ceiling deal gave the Republicans the opportunity they needed to fire another torpedo at the ACA.

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I do believe that Mika & Joe went overboard in their attacks on Trump after the inauguration. It was to compensate for being accused of being Trump's BFF's during the transition period. It was wrong of them to show up at Trump Tower, Mar A Largo & the White House for Lunch a week after the inauguration. You can't have it both ways.

[oakville]

  On 9/27/2017 at 7:08 PM, millennium said:

That reality leaves little mystery about when the next attempt to take down Obamacare will happen, doesn't it?

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So, if McCain can no longer vote due to health issues & Menendez is convicted of charges on bribery , then Obamacare would be repealed ?

Morning Joe has not covered the political ramifications of Senator Menendez being convicted, but I think Kornacki said that the Democratic caucus could let him stay to vote until Gov Chris Christie leaves office.

It's weird how Mika & Joe avoid discussing these issues. Menendez does not have "friend of the show" status AFAIK but he has appeared on Morning Joe before.

[teddysmom]

Internet & twitter are having none of Mika's pissy little HRC rant this morning. 

http://crooksandliars.com/2017/09/mika-says-hillary-clinton-should-take-her

[millennium]

  On 9/27/2017 at 8:41 PM, teddysmom said:

Internet & twitter are having none of Mika's pissy little HRC rant this morning. 

http://crooksandliars.com/2017/09/mika-says-hillary-clinton-should-take-her

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I don't blame Mika.  What I detect in her voice and body language is extreme frustration.    Symptomatic of the pit-of-the-stomach "there's nobody to save us" realization many of us had on the morning of November 9, and which has plagued us every day since.   Mika sounds like she's still angry at Hillary for fucking it up.   It's bad enough having to live under an oppressive shroud of helplessness , but to also have tone-deaf Hillary out there every day making a buck by constantly reminding us why we're in this fix, and accepting no responsibility for it, is salt in the wound. 

[scrb]

She's white and rich.  Really doubt she has much to worry about from GOP policies.

And if they're onerous, she can afford to move to Europe.

[Drumpf1737]

  On 9/27/2017 at 8:41 PM, teddysmom said:

Internet & twitter are having none of Mika's pissy little HRC rant this morning. 

http://crooksandliars.com/2017/09/mika-says-hillary-clinton-should-take-her

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It would be hilarious if Hillary came on MJ and called Mika, Monica the entire time.

[Mumbles]

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She's white and rich.  Really doubt she has much to worry about from GOP policies.

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Mika actually seems like an empathetic person. Can't exactly see her quitting and walking around in the woods, drinking white wine and doing alternate-nostril breathing, whatever that is. On Tuesday she was practically in despair when she said she wasn't sure this country was going to recover from a Trump administration like it did the Watergate scandal.

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 would be hilarious if Hillary came on MJ and called Mika, Monica the entire time.

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 It would, but I'm sure that hag can't bring herself to say the word Monica.

[oakville]

  On 9/27/2017 at 10:04 PM, millennium said:

I don't blame Mika.  What I detect in her voice and body language is extreme frustration.    Symptomatic of the pit-of-the-stomach "there's nobody to save us" realization many of us had on the morning of November 9, and which has plagued us every day since.   Mika sounds like she's still angry at Hillary for fucking it up.   It's bad enough having to live under an oppressive shroud of helplessness , but to also have tone-deaf Hillary out there every day making a buck by constantly reminding us why we're in this fix, and accepting no responsibility for it, is salt in the wound. 

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Mika seemed be happy from the election to the inauguration when she & Joe were part of the  "cool kids" that got to meet with Ivanka &  President elect Trump at Mar A Largo. I do think they believed that Trump would "Pivot" to becoming more normal. They started to get mad at Trump on Day 1 after his Inauguration speech.

  On 9/27/2017 at 11:25 PM, scrb said:

She's white and rich.  Really doubt she has much to worry about from GOP policies.

And if they're onerous, she can afford to move to Europe.

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I suspect Mka & Joe will go on a rant tomorrow about trump's tax plan. He will eliminate tax deductions for state & local taxes which will be tough on people who file from states with high taxes like Conn, NJ, & NY.

[ButterQueen]

LOVED Joe basically telling Mika to STFU this morning.  Her constant chirping interruptions are not cute, but so damn irritating.  ?

I wish she would just go away.  She adds nothing to the show.

[oakville]

Thursday Recap. Mika is wearing a new blue wrinkled top with an open neck. There are white patches to the wrinkly collar. It needs to be ironed out.

Joe is wearing a navy suit with a burgundy tie.

Mika is giddy at reading a poll that shows that 56% of people think Trump is not fit to serve as President. 42% said he is fit to serve as President.

Mika crowed that she knew this all along is was mad at Joe for telling her to stop attacking Trump's fitness to serve.

Joe was happy that only 15% approve of the GOP in Congress.

They showed clips of Judge Moore having no clue what DACA is. Joe said Cackles was right that the GOP should stop being the stupid party.

Ratner said that Moore doesn't owe McConnell anything & he will be a loose cannon in Washington.

Joe said voters will keep sending non conventional politicians to Washington.

Joe said the entire GOP will have to answer questions about Roy Moore. The media will pounce on any missteps by Moore and make the GOP answer for them.

Joe said the media is not liberal.

Joe went on a tangent making fun of Trump saying Sen Thocran was in the hospital but he wasn't. He was at home recovering from a urological issue.

Joe said the poll results will be Armageddon for the GOP but Pace said no because Democrats don't have any ideas either?

Joe said that the GOP should realize that Clinton was the worst candidate in Democratic history. Really?

Joe said the GOP won't get as lucky in 2018 or 2020.

Ratner brought charts. There will be very little net tax cuts for individuals but Corporations will get 2.5 trillion in tax cuts.

Ratner said any benefits will be offset by not allowing deductions for state & local taxes. This will be bad if you live in blue states.

Mika was mad at Trump's kids using government planes for modeling shoots.

Mika is mad at Price & other cabinet members taking private jets for government business.

Joe said it is the swampiest time in Washington history.

Bill Karins gave a hurricane update. The ports have supplies but there are no drivers to get supplies into the rest of the island.

Joe got very annoyed with Mika's constant interuptions at 617 am. Mika said she adds color. Joe was not amused.

Haass hopes the sanctions will work but it won't stop them . North Korea needs missiles to protect its regime.

Haas thinks that NK might shoot down a US bomber but the USA would retaliate. They could stumble into work.

Joe said no one in the administration has foreign policy experience.

Haas wants a freeze on nuclear activity in exchange for a freeze on US military exercises.

Edited September 28, 2017 by oakville

[stormy]

Wendy Sherman was a good addition to the North Korea talk this morning.

Joe called Jared de facto Secretary of State. Only it's not funny because Rex Tillerson doesn't have a clue either.

[oakville]

Mika is going on about Trump being unfit to serve. Mika said that she knew that Obama would win in 2007, Joe is fed up with her. Mika said that Trump lies all the time. Mika is mad at Trump's tweets. Joe is now using this Southern accent .

[oakville]

Mark Meadows from the Freedom caucus came on to discuss Tax Reform. Joe started to complain about paying 55% tax rate because he lives in Conecticut. Meadows challenged him to support a tax break for the 1% 's. Joe got angry & said he was lucky to pay 55% tax because some small business people can't afford the high tax rates in Connecticut.

Joe complained about Obama raising the top rat from 35% to 39.6%.

Joe is now mad at the deficit rising from $4 Trillion under Clinton to 20 Trillion under Trump.

[teddysmom]

  On 9/27/2017 at 10:04 PM, millennium said:

Mika sounds like she's still angry at Hillary for fucking it up.

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Considering Mika was down with normalizing Donald Trump every single day, offering him advice on how to appear like a human being and less like a psychopathic con artist, and was still trying to schmooze him after the election, as well as kissing Ivanka's ass every chance she got, Mika can shut the fuck up.   Focus her anger inward, or on the women who voted for Trump.

The reason Joe & Mika slam Trump so hard every single day is  they are trying to rehabilitate their image during the campaign as Trump syncophants and it's nothing but their lame attempt to make up for what they did,  ie,  fucked up. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by teddysmom

[oakville]

Jeffrey Sachs showed up at 8:30 am along with Ruth Marcus & Anand with the Wild Hair . They complained about Trump's golf trips & the Cabinet taking private jets for government business. The optics are bad. Mika & Joe are not on the set & Willie is left alone.

Sachs is upset with the GOP tax plan. Where are the tables? Why is the estate tax being repealed. ?

Sachs used to be a first block guest. Now he is demoted to the 8 30 am block & Mika & Joe don't even show up. That is sad.

  On 9/28/2017 at 2:19 PM, teddysmom said:

Considering Mika was down with normalizing Donald Trump every single day, offering him advice on how to appear like a human being and less like a psychopathic con artist, and was still trying to schmooze him after the election, as well as kissing Ivanka's ass every chance she got, Mika can shut the fuck up.   Focus her anger inward, or on the women who voted for Trump.

The reason Joe & Mika slam Trump so hard every single day is  they are trying to rehabilitate their image during the campaign as Trump syncophants and it's nothing but their lame attempt to make up for what they did,  ie,  fucked up. 

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The problem with Mika & Joe is that they refuse to acknowledge that they have a habit of getting too close personally to the politicians they cover.

[stormy]

So I missed Sachs but saw Ratner (blah) why aren't Ali Velshi or Stephanie Ruhle invited on to to talk about the awful, but thoroughly predictable Republican tax plan?

Edited September 28, 2017 by stormy

[Kenz]

  On 9/28/2017 at 12:10 PM, oakville said:

Joe said that the GOP should realize that Clinton was the worst candidate in Democratic history. Really?

 

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Stupid comment, Joe. He obviously doesn't know much about U.S. political history. He and Mika love to bash Hillary Clinton at every opportunity.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Kenz

[oakville]

  On 9/28/2017 at 3:46 PM, Kenz said:

Stupid comment, Joe. He obviously doesn't know much about American political history.

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Joe's attacks on Hillary Clinton are not justified. She did have some political liabilities but to call her the worst Democratic nominee ever is outrageous.

In the past, Joe has dismissed Obama's win in 2008 as a "one off" & Bill Clinton's win in 1992 as a "one off". This is wrong because they were both re elected President.

  On 9/28/2017 at 3:01 PM, stormy said:

So I missed Sachs but saw Ratner (blah) why aren't Ali Velshi or Stephanie Ruhle invited on to to talk about the awful, but thoroughly predictable Republican tax plan?

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The tax discussion was very underwhelming today.

[Mumbles]

  Quote

Joe's attacks on Hillary Clinton are not justified. She did have some political liabilities but to call her the worst Democratic nominee ever is outrageous.

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It's a hard claim to prove right or wrong, but he has a basis for his opinion. Mondale, Kerry, and McGovern lost to incumbents, who usually have built-in advantages. Dukakis lost to a popular sitting vice president (and ran against the dirty Lee Atwater machine.)  I guess that leaves Adlai Stevenson (who ran against a war her, and then the same man as incumbent president) of and Hubert Humphrey (1968 was a turbulent mess.) 

In that backdrop I can't think of a worse Democratic nominee, especially in light of who she lost to.

[ETA I forgot Al Gore, but I think that's because I always assumed he *really* won.]

Edited September 28, 2017 by Mumbles

[scrb]

  On 9/28/2017 at 1:34 PM, oakville said:

Mark Meadows from the Freedom caucus came on to discuss Tax Reform. Joe started to complain about paying 55% tax rate because he lives in Conecticut. Meadows challenged him to support a tax break for the 1% 's. Joe got angry & said he was lucky to pay 55% tax because some small business people can't afford the high tax rates in Connecticut.

Joe complained about Obama raising the top rat from 35% to 39.6%.

Joe is now mad at the deficit rising from $4 Trillion under Clinton to 20 Trillion under Trump.

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Meadows really asked him to support tax cuts for the one-percenters?

Vice had a report on gerrymandering.  Meadows represents Asheville, NC, which is a relatively moderate area.  But they gerrymandered it into two red districts and that's how Meadows got into office.

The previous rep. for Asheville was a conservative Democrat, former University of Tennessee and NFL football player Heath Schuler.

[Mumbles]

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Vice had a report on gerrymandering.  Meadows represents Asheville, NC, which is a relatively moderate area.  But they gerrymandered it into two red districts and that's how Meadows got into office

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Jane Mayer write about this writ large in "Dark Money." About twenty years ago the Kochs wisely and quietly began focusing on state elections, knowing that if they turned as many state houses red, they would eventually get congressional districts drawn to their liking. The DNC always thought themselves to be too important to focus on silly little state representative races and now they're facing very hostile congressional maps. It took decades to do and sadly it will take decades to undo. I remember that Mayer focused on North Carolina when discussing this. I wonder if she mentioned this district specifically.

[oakville]

  On 9/28/2017 at 4:21 PM, Mumbles said:

It's a hard claim to prove right or wrong, but he has a basis for his opinion. Mondale, Kerry, and McGovern lost to incumbents, who usually have built-in advantages. Dukakis lost to a popular sitting vice president (and ran against the dirty Lee Atwater machine.)  I guess that leaves Adlai Stevenson (who ran against a war her, and then the same man as incumbent president) of and Hubert Humphrey (1968 was a turbulent mess.) 

In that backdrop I can't think of a worse Democratic nominee, especially in light of who she lost to.

[ETA I forgot Al Gore, but I think that's because I always assumed he *really* won.]

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Mondale & Dukakis did worse than expected as nominees. Dukakis did have a strong lead in the opinion polls in the summer of 1988. Mondale won 1 state which is very bad considering natural democratic constituencies.

I would say that Hillary's loss was the most shocking compared to expectations.

It was alarming that all the pundits & pollsters were wrong.GroupThink is dangerous.

The problem I have with Mika & Joe is that they thought that Trump's behavior & political campaign was so irrational that it could never win.

I remember the day after the election, Joe started talking about a lame anecdote that he saw Trump posters in rural Pennsylvania so that was a sure sign that Trump would in. Really?

Joe should not make pronouncements about best/worst in history without analyzing history.

I was also irritated by the repeated joke about the Mississipi senator who couldn't vote because he was at home recovering from a urological procedure. He couldn't vote in DC.

Does it make a difference whether he couldn't vote because he was recovering from surgery in a hospital vs resting at home? He wouldn't be able to vote anyway.

[oakville]

  On 9/28/2017 at 4:23 PM, scrb said:

Meadows really asked him to support tax cuts for the one-percenters?

Vice had a report on gerrymandering.  Meadows represents Asheville, NC, which is a relatively moderate area.  But they gerrymandered it into two red districts and that's how Meadows got into office.

The previous rep. for Asheville was a conservative Democrat, former University of Tennessee and NFL football player Heath Schuler.

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Joe started complaining about the high tax rates he pays as a resident of Connecticut. He was upset that Trump's proposals would not reduce his tax rates. He claims that he pays a rate of 55%, which is possible in Conn.

Meadows challenged Joe to support a tax rate reduction for the top 1%, which Joe could not support.

The old Joe from Pensacola would support a tax cut for the wealthy, but the new Joe from Conn would be banned from the cocktail party circuit & Martha's Vineyard if he supported a reduction in the top tax rate.

It was hilarious to watch his facial expression change. Meadows outwitted him.

Joe did say that he would rather do the show from Florida where there is no state income tax. However, his kids like Connecticut.

[Mumbles]

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I remember the day after the election, Joe started talking about a lame anecdote that he saw Trump posters in rural Pennsylvania so that was a sure sign that Trump would in. Really?

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Yeah funny that we didn't hear that story from Joe *before* the election. Unlike Michael Moore, who did the Rachel Maddow show several times before the election talking about all the Trump signs in Michigan.

[millennium]

  On 9/28/2017 at 2:19 PM, teddysmom said:

Considering Mika was down with normalizing Donald Trump every single day, offering him advice on how to appear like a human being and less like a psychopathic con artist, and was still trying to schmooze him after the election, as well as kissing Ivanka's ass every chance she got, Mika can shut the fuck up.   Focus her anger inward, or on the women who voted for Trump.

The reason Joe & Mika slam Trump so hard every single day is  they are trying to rehabilitate their image during the campaign as Trump syncophants and it's nothing but their lame attempt to make up for what they did,  ie,  fucked up. 

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It's interesting you say this, because today Mika said something that flies in the face of the reality.   They were talking about the poll showing 56% of Americans believe Trump is unfit to hold the office of President.   Scarborough was doing this "aww, isn't she cute?" schtick (he is sooo fucking condescending to women) because Mika's purportedly long-held views about Trump finally appeared to be validated by quantifiable polling.   "You've been saying this for how long?" Scarborough teased her.  Since the campaign Mika said self-righteously.

I didn't watch this show during the campaign, so all I can go by is what you all have said here and what has been written in the media elsewhere online.  But all who write about Scarborough et ux-to-be seem to agree that they were both in the bag for Trump.  So Mika indeed seems to be revising history.

Still, it does not preclude her from harboring the feelings I described.  Many people made a mistake about Trump.  They underestimated his crude appeal, they underestimated the public's gullibility and  what people were willing to sacrifice -- our very democracy -- for a pipedream of being able to recreate the past.   I remember thinking his campaign was funny at first, and wouldn't it be a hoot if he won (of course, my mirth was based on my 100% certainty that such a thing would never come to pass).

I agree with you -- Mika helped to make this nightmare happen.  But what makes her different from Hillary is that Mika has has reversed course and is making a daily effort to set things right again.   Hillary is locked into in a pre-November 8th mindset.   You never hear from her "This is what we should be doing now."   It's always, "This is what happened to me back then."  And why?  Perhaps because she's either unable/unwilling to look ahead, or she thinks there's more money to be made off the past.

[Chloesmom]

  On 9/28/2017 at 5:57 PM, oakville said:

Mondale & Dukakis did worse than expected as nominees. Dukakis did have a strong lead in the opinion polls in the summer of 1988. Mondale won 1 state which is very bad considering natural democratic constituencies.

I would say that Hillary's loss was the most shocking compared to expectations.

It was alarming that all the pundits & pollsters were wrong.GroupThink is dangerous.

The problem I have with Mika & Joe is that they thought that Trump's behavior & political campaign was so irrational that it could never win.

I remember the day after the election, Joe started talking about a lame anecdote that he saw Trump posters in rural Pennsylvania so that was a sure sign that Trump would in. Really?

Joe should not make pronouncements about best/worst in history without analyzing history.

I was also irritated by the repeated joke about the Mississipi senator who couldn't vote because he was at home recovering from a urological procedure. He couldn't vote in DC.

Does it make a difference whether he couldn't vote because he was recovering from surgery in a hospital vs resting at home? He wouldn't be able to vote anyway.

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The urological jokes were because Trump said at least three times that the reason why healthcare didn't pass was because one of the senators was in the hospital (wrong).  It was quickly discovered that the senator was home resting after some kind of urological procedure.   Joe chose that moment to bust out his Beavis and Butthead imitation and  had to take it to another level.  I agree, it was gross.  Click.

[Mumbles]

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 I didn't watch this show during the campaign, so all I can go by is what you all have said here and what has been written in the media elsewhere online.  But all who write about Scarborough et ux-to-be seem to agree that they were both in the bag for Trump.  So Mika indeed seems to be revising history.

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It was all a big laugh for them re Trump at first, but then Trump got huffy with Joe about something during a call-in (I vaguely think it was about Lewandowski grabbing the reporter) and then they did was hammer Trump from then on. But as Oakville pointed out, in December or so they talked him up as possibly "pivoting" and about their good friends Jared and Ivanka.

But ITA with you that this does not forfeit Mika's right to be pissed about Mrs. Clinton. Her remark about bringing her book tour to Puerto Rico was dumb, but the underlying sentiment of her remark is that Mrs. Clinton's $14 million self-pity party is vile.

[millennium]

  On 9/28/2017 at 6:51 PM, Mumbles said:

Mrs. Clinton's $14 million self-pity party is vile.

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It would be vile even if the country was in a good place.

But now?  As people worry about losing their healthcare, or being deported, or whether Seattle will be replaced by a mushroom cloud one of these days? 

Have you no shame, Mrs. Clinton?   It's not even like you need the money.