Sleepy Hollow in the Media

[cynic]

I didn't think those were Abbie's panties at all. I took it that Abbie and Jenny discover that Betsy is the partner Ichabod was referring to which is why they were sideeying him playfully. But to be fair I watched the promo once so I could be wrong.

Oh! That's actually a good theory. I could totally see that. It did seem strange that Crane would be going through Abbie's drawers. They probably are searching the home of a suspicious person in the clip and then we'll find out later that it's Betsy and she now lives in the present. And it would make more sense for Crane to be referring to Betsy as his partner IN CRIME than Abbie if they had previous Mr. & Mrs. Smith-type escapades.

There's nothing to do but wait and see how it turns out, but I bet you're right. And if true, ugh to the bait and switch shipper bait.

...Deluxe? Sleepy Hollow doesn't have the budget. She looks like a dollar store Elizabeth Swann.

Haha! I commented elsewhere that she looks like she works in a Pirates of the Caribbean themed 'breastuarant' (yes, grossly, those are actually a thing), so your Elizabeth Swann reference made me laugh.

[phoenics]

Man you guys are full of wet blankets today, lol.

Betsy is in only ONE scene this episode - so it's not her house and I doubt she's in the present. Maybe it's Pandora's house?

And maybe Ichabod was referring to Betsy when he said partner.

Ugh - I spit on your wet blankets, lol.

[Indi]

And maybe Ichabod was referring to Betsy when he said partner.

Who else are they promoting as Mr. and Mrs. Smith? 

[Yolapukka]

I will be shocked as hell if SexyBetsy Ross appears in the present day. I can't think of a single good reason to do so and plenty of sound narrative reasons to have her be active in the colonial past. I kind of thought that was the point of the character, you know, besides bewbs(!!!!!)

 

Those don't look like panties to me, more like a camisole.

Edited September 25, 2015 by yuggapukka

[cynic]

Man you guys are full of wet blankets today, lol.

Betsy is in only ONE scene this episode - so it's not her house and I doubt she's in the present. Maybe it's Pandora's house?

And maybe Ichabod was referring to Betsy when he said partner.

Ugh - I spit on your wet blankets, lol.

Is the promo just for the premiere or is it a general one for the season?

And yeah, my blanket is thoroughly soaked now between the promo pics, the reviews, and the new spoiler. Sorry Phoenics! But I'm still going to watch the show and I still have hope (it springs eternal!) that despite Sexy Pirate Betsy and all the rest there will still be magic in the Ichabbie partnership and season 3 will be a fun ride.

Edited September 25, 2015 by cynic

[DJG1122]

Betsy is in only ONE scene this episode - so it's not her house and I doubt she's in the present. Maybe it's Pandora's house?

BlackHoney said the washing machine scene with the sheer teddy or camisole isn't in this first episode.

Edited September 25, 2015 by DJG1122

[HalcyonDays]

Goodness, those colonial ladies sure did like to wear their foundation garments as their only garments, didn't they?

 

Isn't corset-training the thing now again? Maybe the costume designer was trying to be trendy? *shrug* Otherwise I got nuthin'

 

Man you guys are full of wet blankets today, lol.

 

Come Phoenics to my lonely side and sit on my DRY blanket. I am going to watch and hopefully it'll be a fun and good season. Won't know until the episodes air, that's all I got to say.

 

Beyond that, Kim Roots - a writer for TVLine who was pretty vocal about how season 2 sucked - tweeted that she watched the first episode:

 

Kimberly Roots ‏@kimroots 22h22 hours ago

I've seen the #SleepyHollow S3 premiere. If you're worried, you shouldn't be. Solid on all fronts.

 

If those that slammed S2 last season, and giving good reviews, that that bodes well for me.

 

Here are some more TVLine spoilers about the show. SH is two questions around the middle of the page.

[catrox14]

I'm pretty sure I read in one of the spoilers that Betsy

would be coming to present day. I'll have to see if I can find it, but I swear I didn't just make it up in my head

Edited September 25, 2015 by catrox14

[phoenics]

Maybe she'll only be a ghost - as in not real - with NO chance of becoming corporeal. She's well and truly dead and I hope they keep her that way. The moment they bring her into the present, I'm so out.

[cynic]

I'm pretty sure I read in one of the spoilers that Betsy

would be coming to present day. I'll have to see if I can find it, but I swear I didn't just make it up in my head

Per this article, Kurtzman said that

a character may or may not be coming from the past.

I don't know if that's where that spoiler comes from or of there was more specific info elsewhere.

http://www.givememyremote.com/remote/2015/08/27/sleepy-hollow-alex-kurtzman-teases-season-3/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork

[Amethyst]

I've been avoiding all spoilers and reviews because I just want to enjoy the premiere without any reservations.  That said, I enjoyed the promo, and it definitely felt like authentic Abbie and Ichabod to me.  Considering this is the only promo they've aired for SH, I'll take it.  And just a week away from the episode itself.  What the hell, FOX?

 

The pictures are not good, though.  The actors look fine, but the quality of the pics and that background look super cheap.  Abbie doesn't even look like she's there, but rather photoshopped into the background.  

 

Definitely agree on the bargain basement Elizabeth Swann look for BR.  That said, at least she's clothed and doesn't look like she'll just gasp and wilt away.  

 

But Pandora looks like shit, I'm sorry.  Like walking death.  I'm hoping it's just the angle, because Shannon does not look that bad irl.

[Yolapukka]

 

Goodness, those colonial ladies sure did like to wear their foundation garments as their only garments, didn't they? Plus, I guess Ichabod's 250 years being buried made him forget that he knew women who wore trousers given how non-plussed (if that's the right word) he was about Abby's pants when he first arrived in the 21st century. But maybe it was acceptable attire for sexy, pirate, spy flag-makers of the time.

 

 

They'll get some (small) credit from me if that get-up turns out to be something that she wears under her gown, because otherwise, I can't see how it works out as "ready for action", unless it's "ready for action after I get my maid to help me out of my voluminous formal attire and into an entirely new costume that involves buttons, buckles, boning and high lace-up boots." Either way, It will still look pretty damn silly.

 

Love Ichabod, but it would be funny as hell if she thinks he's a complete git because he continually fends her off due to mistaking her intentions as romantic interest.

[HalcyonDays]

Honestly...the clothes don't bother me.. It's the behaviour and manner and purpose of the character shown. TBH, the shot of BR, looked like clothes that Jenny would wear. And I LOVE Jenny to death. But I love her not just because of her kick ass clothes. Because she herself is interesting, and kick ass, and fascinating etc etc.

 

So these still shots of these new characters are irrelevant - I need to SEE them act, and interact, to determine what their purpose is, what their personalities are like, etc etc.

 

I'm not gonna dismiss a character because they are wearing a corset, because that's exactly what I expect from the male-focused Hollywood world. Just like I didn't complain about Abbie wearing tight skinny jeans and high heels when on the job. Not realistic, uncomfortable, but fact - On TV. Same with the other women. They must dress sexy - this is a requirement. There is a reason that Beckett on Castle - TV NYPD detective - wears 4 inch heels.  TV.

 

So to harp on the corset nonsense before actually seeing how the character appears on-screen is nonsense. Wait till the character has some screen time. If she's crap, then by all mean, slam her. But a picture does not make a full story.

[catrox14]

Honestly...the clothes don't bother me.. It's the behaviour and manner and purpose of the character shown. TBH, the shot of BR, looked like clothes that Jenny would wear. And I LOVE Jenny to death. But I love her not just because of her kick ass clothes. Because she herself is interesting, and kick ass, and fascinating etc etc.

 

So these still shots of these new characters are irrelevant - I need to SEE them act, and interact, to determine what their purpose is, what their personalities are like, etc etc.

 

I'm not gonna dismiss a character because they are wearing a corset, because that's exactly what I expect from the male-focused Hollywood world. Just like I didn't complain about Abbie wearing tight skinny jeans and high heels when on the job. Not realistic, uncomfortable, but fact - On TV. Same with the other women. They must dress sexy - this is a requirement. There is a reason that Beckett on Castle - TV NYPD detective - wears 4 inch heels.  TV.

 

So to harp on the corset nonsense before actually seeing how the character appears on-screen is nonsense. Wait till the character has some screen time. If she's crap, then by all mean, slam her. But a picture does not make a full story.

 

It's really not nonsense when we spent last season rolling our eyes at Katrina's corset wear. It would be nice if they gave us something different with Betsy but right of the bat we get promotional material that reinforces the same tired cliched "sexy" trope.

[HalcyonDays]

It's really not nonsense when we spent last season rolling our eyes at Katrina's corset wear. It would be nice if they gave us something different with Betsy but right of the bat we get promotional material that reinforces the same tired cliched "sexy" trope.

 

Let me ask you a quite valid question. If Abbie was seen wearing a corset, would that make her a "Katrina?" Would Jenny wearing a corset-like top make her immediately useless, unhelpful and frankly - pathetic? No, it would not. Everyone is applying Katrina visual characteristics to a character that  - so far - we know nothing of. Now, if the episode airs, and her motivations or behaviour seem very Katrina-like, then yeah, I'm wrong.

 

I am wearing a pair of ratty jeans. Am I homeless (not yet). Am I unemployed? Am I in fashion? Maybe I'm working in the garden. Maybe I just don't care. Point is, that famous phrase - "Don't judge a book by it's cover."

[Indi]

If Abbie was seen wearing a corset, would that make her a "Katrina?" Would Jenny wearing a corset-like top make her immediately useless, unhelpful and frankly - pathetic?

 

Have people called Sexy!Smart!Betsy pathetic, useless and unhelpful? No, the outfit is pathetic, sexist and useless. Betsy is sexy! and smart!, remember? She is the upgrade to Katrina, so we already know she's not useless. She still looks ridiculous and if Abbie and Jenny would also look ridiculous in that outfit.

 

The thing with Sexy!Smart!Betsy is that promo picture is that her appearance doesn't make sense, considering the canon established on the show. It simply makes no sense. There are many ways to make her look sexy and action ready, that don't include looking like an extra from Pirates of the Caribbean.

[cynic]

Maybe I'm shallow, but costuming (as well as sets, fx, and other visuals) do affect my enjoyment of a show. Part of it is due to the aesthetic appeal and part of it is how it helps to inform the character or enhance the setting. I do allow for the realities of the tv business. I don't expect to see Crane with rotten teeth and I don't begrudge Nicole getting a bit of extra height so her head can appear in the same frame as Mison's, but I can only stretch so far. Everyone's scrubs on tv are more form-fitting than normal, but they rarely look like sexy doctor/nurse Halloween costumes and that's what Betsy looks like to me. It's especially glaring because Crane's clothes don't take nearly as many liberties trying to get his look to appeal to modern sensibilities, so his pants are all baggy in the crotch and his boots are totally floppy. Worse, is that it doesn't make sense in the context of the story since she apparently 

wears trousers, because she disguises herself as a man. Sure, she wears a hat and a coat too, but that outfit is not fooling anyone.

And while I'm totally speculating and could be completely wrong, the costume in context with everything else we're seeing points to the powers that be going in a direction that is not in line with the show I fell in love with. Even without considering all the Katrina-nonsense and season 2 scandal, I've always thought that SH needed to work on keeping as many aspects as possible grounded and familiar to balance the over-the-top crazy. It's one of the reasons that I prefer the show when it spent most of it's time in the modern world and interacting with the town/police department. The more the show tilts to the batshit (and a swashbuckling superspy Betsy Ross dressed by Spirit Halloween is batshit), the less I like it.

[catrox14]

Let me ask you a quite valid question. If Abbie was seen wearing a corset, would that make her a "Katrina?" Would Jenny wearing a corset-like top make her immediately useless, unhelpful and frankly - pathetic? No, it would not. Everyone is applying Katrina visual characteristics to a character that  - so far - we know nothing of. Now, if the episode airs, and her motivations or behaviour seem very Katrina-like, then yeah, I'm wrong.

 

I am wearing a pair of ratty jeans. Am I homeless (not yet). Am I unemployed? Am I in fashion? Maybe I'm working in the garden. Maybe I just don't care. Point is, that famous phrase - "Don't judge a book by it's cover."

 

 

Not sure how this went from complaining about "stupid sexy pirate costume" of a fictional version of Betsy Ross to judging/condemning  people IRL who wear ratty jeans (looks at my worn jeans).  No one has said nor implied anything of the sort.  That's a false equivalency and not the issue.

 

But for the sake of discussion, if Abbie is wearing a corset under her Fed threads good for her!  But if that corset sees the light of day whilst she's doing her job as an FBI agent , you can bet I'm eyerolling the shit out of that.  And it has nothing to do with her being Katrina. It's a trope of sex up the gals in silly ways.  YMMV

 

 

The more the show tilts to the batshit (and a swashbuckling superspy Betsy Ross dressed by Spirit Halloween is batshit), the less I like it

I loved the batshit that was unique. Headless!Headless with a machine gun?! Hellz yeah.

Abbie with an actual cop uniform and she was still sexy and smart under that regular cop uniform?! Unique in this world of sexy!lady!Cops!

Betsy Ross can be a spy but man it's just so cliched to dress her like they did.

 

Sorry for all the weird quoting crap. I don't know why it did that and I can't seem to fix it! SORRY!

Edited September 26, 2015 by catrox14

[HalcyonDays]

Not sure how this went from complaining about "stupid sexy pirate costume" of a fictional version of Betsy Ross to judging/condemning  people IRL who wear ratty jeans (looks at my worn jeans).  No one has said nor implied anything of the sort.  That's a false equivalency and not the issue.

 

But for the sake of discussion, if Abbie is wearing a corset under her Fed threads good for her!  But if that corset sees the light of day whilst she's doing her job as an FBI agent , you can bet I'm eyerolling the shit out of that.  And it has nothing to do with her being Katrina. It's a trope of sex up the gals in silly ways.  YMMV

 

Abbie has been wearing inappropriate tight skinny jeans/pants and high heeled boots for two years - yet no one mentions that. Interesting.

 

I'm not condemning ratty jeans because I wear them -- I am a fucking slob and proud of it. But what is the consensus on people who wear such items? Homeless? Poor? Pathetic? Useless? etc etc..

 

"Super sexy pirate costume" is unfortunately a reality in TV World. Women must look sexy. Do I deride it? Hell ya. Do I realize it exists? Hell ya. TV networks know that sex sells - assuming their timeslot fits that bill.

 

"Super Sexy Pirate Costumed" person...fact is, you/we know nothing about this person at this point. Granted, if that character becomes crap, then yeah, let's slam and eyeroll the fuck out of it. Otherwise, you have to wait for the episode to air.

[cynic]

Heh, Catrox, that happened to me the other day when I was trying to do multiple quotes and started deleting and pasting portions. Before you get excited, I wasn't able to fix it either. I had to start over. Now, I make sure to space things out before trying to edit them. 

 

I like unique batshit too. Even more, I like unique batshit peppered into more normal stuff. All batshit, all the time is kinda overwhelming. 

 

Abbie had been wearing inappropriate tight skinny jeans/pants and high heeled boots for two years - yet no one mentions that. Interesting....

Abbie looks relatively normal to me. I dress very similarly when I go to work. Sure, it's probably not what most detectives wear, but it's not so outlandish that it pulls me out of the story.YMMV

 

FWIW, I hate the way Beckett was sexed up in the second season of Castle. It's not the reason I stopped watching the show, but it didn't help. The same thing happened in the second season of Life. They decided to sex up the show and suddenly Sarah Shahi went from slacks, sensible shoes, and a bun to tight jeans, heels, and loose hair. Ugh. The costume changes totally signified a change in the overall vision of the show, for the worse in my opinion. 
 

 ..."Super sexy pirate costume" is unfortunately a reality in TV World. Women must look sexy. Do I deride it? Hell ya. Do I realize it exists? Hell ya. TV networks know that sex sells - assuming their timeslot fits that bill....

There are degrees. Jenny's beautiful, but her outfits tend to be practical, if form-fitting. Jenny suddenly in a mini at the bar looked like a ploy by the show to be sexy. Katrina in her gothic flashback dress looked fine (I personally disliked the dress and thought it was a bit anachronistic, but it didn't look that strange in context). Katrina hanging out for weeks in a stolen corset and tight jeans was blatant pandering. Betsy's costume could have been done in many different ways and still looked attractive, but the version they chose appears to have been selected for maximum sex appeal with not even a passing nod to story context or historical accuracy. Edited September 26, 2015 by cynic

[catrox14]

 

Abbie had been wearing inappropriate tight skinny jeans/pants and high heeled boots for two years - yet no one mentions that. Interesting.

 

I feel like there are is a lot of jumping to conclusions and assumptions about what people are thinking about or discussing or liking or not liking and it's kind of odd and off-putting for discussion.

 

I complained the fuck out of that change in Abbie's wardrobe in s1. I hated it. It was tropy and stupid and IMO sexist and obnoxious. and completely unnecessary to keep the audience. That pilot was utterly charming and funny and unique and scary and Abbie wore sensible clothing and still was sexy AF.  At least when the wardrobe change happened her tshirts were practical and her boots were not 5 inch stilletos and her jeans were snug but not camel toe tight. I could live with that because Abbie was not marginalized in her own show.

 

The thing is they never needed to do that to keep the viewers interested IMO. The audience was there because of how interesting Abbie and Ichabod were both individually and as a team and the diverse supporting cast and the BSC stuff they were doing that worked. not because Abbie wore tight t-shirts. 

[Indi]

Abbie has been wearing inappropriate tight skinny jeans/pants and high heeled boots for two years - yet no one mentions that. Interesting.

 

Not true. Plenty of people complained everywhere about her skinny pants and high heeled boots in S1. Still, there is a huge difference between skinny pants in the modern world and total nonsense like Sexy!Smart!Betsy.

[HalcyonDays]

Not true. Plenty of people complained everywhere about her skinny pants and high heeled boots in S1. Still, there is a huge difference between skinny pants in the modern world and total nonsense like Sexy!Smart!Betsy.

Disagree.  No one in the threads that I've been reading, have said a single thing about Abbie and the skinny jeans/tight clothes she wore. Not one

 

As for the the BR outfit, I do NOT want another K-wife. However, I recognisze that reality of TV. And the reality is that most of the leading executives of TV/Hollywood/etc etc, are men.

 

If you honestly think that "SexyBetsy" isn't a ploy by the clueless masses... Well, I can only help you so much...

[catrox14]

Disagree.  No one in the threads that I've been reading, have said a single thing about Abbie and the skinny jeans/tight clothes she wore. Not one

 

As for the the BR outfit, I do NOT want another K-wife. However, I recognisze that reality of TV. And the reality is that most of the leading executives of TV/Hollywood/etc etc, are men

 

 

There were complaints galore at TWoP and AV Club to name just two outlets when that wardrobe change happened.  I'm not sure going by comments here is particularly helpful as a measure of how it was perceived in general by the viewing audience since PTV wasn't as active during s1 as it is now with the closing of TWoP.

Edited September 26, 2015 by catrox14

[Yolapukka]

I recall reading at least one strongly negative comment here about Abbie's tight-pants wardrobe. It may have been more than one for all I remember at this point...

 

 

 

 .....and this has gone waaaay off-topic for a discussion in the media thread about What SexyBetsy Ross's costume in a promo photo signifies about the intent for the character.

 

I think they went too far with the wacky in Ichabod's picture.

Edited September 26, 2015 by yuggapukka

[cynic]

Speaking of these promo pics, it's lame that Fox can't even be bothered getting their leading lady's name right. Nicole 'Behave'. SMH Maybe it's a Freudian slip.

[Hanna]

Abbie has been wearing inappropriate tight skinny jeans/pants and high heeled boots for two years - yet no one mentions that. Interesting.

 

 

I think the real reason Abbie is wearing heels is that there is a 12 inch difference in height between Ichabod and Abbie. The camera can barely keep them in the same shot. You see them far away or one of them sitting or kneeling.

[Julia]

I'm not going to Miss Othmar everyone with my canned speech on the male gaze (wa wa wa, wa wa wa wa). You're welcome. But I do think it's a reach to suggest that somehow a negative response to the news that they're preparing to serve us up their second 250-year-old quaker with tight pants and her tits shoved up around her ears isn't valid unless we've previously complained about Abby's pants.

If I need to, fine - I think running in heels is silly, and that the showrunner who added that particular grace note was a jackass and a pandering sexist who used the bodies of his actresses to pull in viewers because his crappy writing wasn't going to do it. And the new guy, who supposedly learned from what happened last season, not only went straight to the same well, he's using it to promote the new season.

That concerns me. I'll just go ahead and feel free to be concerned, then, and anyone who cares to can explain how I'm interrogating the text from the wrong perspective, and then we'll all be happy.

[jhlipton]

Nice picture of Nikki (and others) from TV Guide Magazine: https://instagram.com/p/4o_O_9tmGP/
 

Heh, Catrox, that happened to me the other day when I was trying to do multiple quotes and started deleting and pasting portions. Before you get excited, I wasn't able to fix it either. I had to start over. Now, I make sure to space things out before trying to edit them.

 
If I need to do multiple or "stacked" quotes, I'll put in the "baseline", use the first icon to get the text version and copy it to Notepad.  Then I can edit away until I get what I want.  Copy back to the reply and re-convert to test.
 
That makes it easier, at least for me.

Edited September 26, 2015 by jhlipton

[CabotCove]

Really?! I thought it was the most blatantly shippy promo I've seen for this show yet. Ichabod holding Abbie's undies? Him saying she's his partner and Jenny going "mmmm hmmm" and Abbie smirking at him?

 

Agree, for showrunners who keep screaming "We are not going there" its strange they put out a promo and moments like that. 

 

I for one felt the promo was done well, doing what a promo should do, inspired me to try the season. Hopefully it means more return to the monster of the week, present day stories and less of Crane's personal drama.

Edited September 26, 2015 by WildcardC

[bethy]

Agree, for showrunners who keep screaming "We are not going there" its strange they put out a promo and moments like that. 

 

I would imagine that Fox's promo department is much like other network promo departments - not bound by (or, evidentally, caring about) what the people who are actually running the show say or think. Arrow's showrunner says he has no say about the promos the CW runs for his show, and I remember the Lost showrunners practically frothing at the mouth over the promos ABC ran that often spoiled what was coming up. The FOX PR people know that the Abbie/Crane chemistry is what is selling Sleepy Hollow to a large extent, so they're going to tease that 'ship where they can to try to lure folks in. 

[CabotCove]

I would imagine that Fox's promo department is much like other network promo departments - not bound by (or, evidentally, caring about) what the people who are actually running the show say or think. Arrow's showrunner says he has no say about the promos the CW runs for his show, and I remember the Lost showrunners practically frothing at the mouth over the promos ABC ran that often spoiled what was coming up. The FOX PR people know that the Abbie/Crane chemistry is what is selling Sleepy Hollow to a large extent, so they're going to tease that 'ship where they can to try to lure folks in.

Oh OK I get your point. I dont get why the showrunners and network PR people just can't be in synch and in tune with each other. It is after all one product they are all trying to sell. The network can't be doing one thing and the show another, to Ichabbie or not, they should be on the same page. Yeah I do find it strange that a showrunner would say they have no say in the promos of their show. If I had developed a product I would want to control  and know how its being marketed, who knows a product best more than its creator,right. At least on the CW it seems they tend to do what the network ask or the network will back down if the creator makes a strong case of their story direction. 

 

I didn't think those were Abbie's panties at all. I took it that Abbie and Jenny discover that Betsy is the partner Ichabod was referring to which is why they were sideeying him playfully. But to be fair I watched the promo once so I could be wrong.

 

Yeah from another angle it does seem like that. Even then though, those kind of scenes are still shippy. They didnt really need Abbie reacting to those things, except to tantalise shippers

Edited September 26, 2015 by WildcardC

[cynic]

I think the real reason Abbie is wearing heels is that there is a 12 inch difference in height between Ichabod and Abbie. The camera can barely keep them in the same shot. You see them far away or one of them sitting or kneeling.

Cosigned. Also, it's not like she's rocking stilettos like some other tv detectives. She's basically wearing work boots with a wide, stacked heel. I don't see how that's sexing her up. As for her tight clothes, Beharie has a body type (short in height + short-waisted + plus curvy) that can easily read as TV "fat" in the wrong clothes. Her tee shirts are v-necked and fitted so she doesn't look like a box with legs. It doesn't really compare to being dressed like a sexy pirate when you're not even supposed to be wearing pants in your time period.

 

I'm not going to Miss Othmar everyone with my canned speech on the male gaze (wa wa wa, wa wa wa wa). You're welcome. But I do think it's a reach to suggest that somehow a negative response to the news that they're preparing to serve us up their second 250-year-old quaker with tight pants and her tits shoved up around her ears isn't valid unless we've previously complained about Abby's pants.

If I need to, fine - I think running in heels is silly, and that the showrunner who added that particular grace note was a jackass and a pandering sexist who used the bodies of his actresses to pull in viewers because his crappy writing wasn't going to do it. And the new guy, who supposedly learned from what happened last season, not only went straight to the same well, he's using it to promote the new season.

That concerns me. I'll just go ahead and feel free to be concerned, then, and anyone who cares to can explain how I'm interrogating the text from the wrong perspective, and then we'll all be happy.

Yeah, I understand that it can be tiresome for people to read a steady flow of opposing viewpoints, but we're all entitled to our opinions and as long as we don't run afoul of site rules, we're allowed to express them here. It's totally fine to disagree. It's not fine to reprimand people for having a different opinion or for daring to approach a show with what you think is not the proper mindset. Plus, it's totally counterproductive. When posters try to convince other posters that they're wrong instead of just relaying their own points, they actually inspire people to defend and expand on the opinions that they didn't want to read in the first place. Stop responding to stuff that you don't want to read. If people aren't interested in discussing certain topics and there are no replies to it, that stuff won't get traction. Better yet, change the subject and see if people follow. But if people do want to talk about stuff and you don't, such is life.

Edited September 26, 2015 by cynic

[Yolapukka]

 

And maybe Ichabod was referring to Betsy when he said partner.

 

He's thumbing through an antique-looking book that could be a journal when he has that exchange with the Mills sisters, so that seems quite possible. Maybe he's referring to Abbie, maybe to Betsy, either way the appeal of the scene is the affectionate banter and teasing between the three of them.

Edited September 26, 2015 by yuggapukka

[catrox14]

He's thumbing through an antique-looking journal when he has that exchange with the Mills sisters, so that seems quite possible. Maybe he's referring to Abbie, maybe to Betsy, either way the appeal of the scene is the affectionate banter and teasing between the three of them.

That's why to me it wasn't shippy. It was banter between these three people that have been to hell and back together. Heck if I were a new viewer, I would see that as two females giving shit to the male in a playful way about why he has those panties. Nothing shippy, just friends teasing another friend.

Also, what we see in these promos might be totally out of context to the actual episode(s). The CW has made promos for Supernatural with snippets of different scenes edited in such a way that it implies that is what will happen, only to find out that scene never existed in the episode as presented in the promo. They've even had scenes in promos that were never actually in the episodes that made it to air.

My beef with the promo is that it didn't do much to imply or remind of the wonderful show of s1. It gave me no sense of even the crappy but still spooky Sleepy Hollow of S2 minus Katrina Vortex of Stupidity.

What I can't decide is if that's a mistake by trying to be all things to all viewers or its deliberate to communicate to the audience that it's taking the show in a different direction.

[Yolapukka]

 

hat's why to me it wasn't shippy. It was banter between these three people that have been to hell and back together. Heck if I were a new viewer, I would see that as two females giving shit to the male in a playful way about why he has those panties. Nothing shippy, just friends teasing another friend.

 

I don't think we can even know at this point if the underwear (camisole!) scene and the exchange about "partners" take place in the same episode never mind relative to each other since Abbie is wearing different clothes. Black tee in one scene, red button-up in the other. You do have a point though, that the use of those two scenes within the promo could make it look to a viewer as though they are meant to relate to each other even if they don't. The Walking Dead often does promos that intentionally misdirect and serve to wind viewers up as to what it all means.

Edited September 26, 2015 by yuggapukka

[phoenics]

I would imagine that Fox's promo department is much like other network promo departments - not bound by (or, evidentally, caring about) what the people who are actually running the show say or think. Arrow's showrunner says he has no say about the promos the CW runs for his show, and I remember the Lost showrunners practically frothing at the mouth over the promos ABC ran that often spoiled what was coming up. The FOX PR people know that the Abbie/Crane chemistry is what is selling Sleepy Hollow to a large extent, so they're going to tease that 'ship where they can to try to lure folks in.

Yeah but Fox's PR department WASN'T doing this before. They weren't showing Abbie in nearly every promo scene. They were mostly showing Ichabod with Abbie sprinkled in MAYBE. And they definitely weren't showing Ichabbie front and center and focusing heavily on the Ichabbie chemistry. EVEN IF Ichabod isn't holding Abbie's undies and even IF he's not talking about her when he's all nervous about a partner in crime - the point is that Abbie's teasing of him and the looks back and forth and eye-bleeping are being played up to a level I have NEVER seen for this show in a promo.

This is different. This feels like the show sent a memo to the PR department to play to Ichabbie in EVERY promo - maybe they plan to back that up in the writing.

I DO find SBR's outfit problematic - but they seem to be trying to sex up the entire cast, so I'm trying to reserve judgment. I'm still not happy about SBR, but whatever (for now). If the show seems to be going the way of S2, then I will leave. I also think that criticizing SBR's outfit and criticizing Abbie's outfit aren't in the same wheelhouse. One is just choosing different modern clothes that are still somewhat believable and you can also argue that the heigh difference plays into it. Especially since Abbie's jeans are just skinny jean tight, not "heaux" tight. On the other hand, they had to ignore history (in a bad way) to give NR that horrid pirate costume. It just looks really out of place and anachronistic in a way that the show won't fully acknowledge (that to me, is the tell). If the show makes fun of itself for dressing her that way, then fine - but if not... nope.

But other than that concern about SBR coming to take over the show a la Katrina 2.0, I will wrap myself up now in Halcyon Days' warm, dry blanket.

With a slit cut for a quick escape should the show prove it hasn't learned its lesson.

Oh OK I get your point. I dont get why the showrunners and network PR people just can't be in synch and in tune with each other. It is after all one product they are all trying to sell. The network can't be doing one thing and the show another, to Ichabbie or not, they should be on the same page. Yeah I do find it strange that a showrunner would say they have no say in the promos of their show. If I had developed a product I would want to control  and know how its being marketed, who knows a product best more than its creator,right. At least on the CW it seems they tend to do what the network ask or the network will back down if the creator makes a strong case of their story direction.

I really wouldn't use the CW promo department as an example, given the blatant ERASURE of Iris West from most of their promos for Flash last year. This year they seem to have gotten a clue - but I suspect that is because of the anger from many Iris fans who demanded from CW, The Flash and the promo department to explain WHY they never showed Iris West (the lead female character) in their US promos.

The CW is a poster child for erasure in their promos.

Cosigned. Also, it's not like she's rocking stilettos like some other tv detectives. She's basically wearing work boots with a wide, stacked heel. I don't see how that's sexing her up. As for her tight clothes, Beharie has a body type (short in height + short-waisted + plus curvy) that can easily read as TV "fat" in the wrong clothes. Her tee shirts are v-necked and fitted so she doesn't look like a box with legs. It doesn't really compare to being dressed like a sexy pirate when you're not even supposed to be wearing pants in your time period.

 

Yeah, I understand that it can be tiresome for people to read a steady flow of opposing viewpoints, but we're all entitled to our opinions and as long as we don't run afoul of site rules, we're allowed to express them here. It's totally fine to disagree. It's not fine to reprimand people for having a different opinion or for daring to approach a show with what you think is not the proper mindset. Plus, it's totally counterproductive. When posters try to convince other posters that they're wrong instead of just relaying their own points, they actually inspire people to defend and expand on the opinions that they didn't want to read in the first place. Stop responding to stuff that you don't want to read. If people aren't interested in discussing certain topics and there are no replies to it, that stuff won't get traction. Better yet, change the subject and see if people follow. But if people do want to talk about stuff and you don't, such is life.

cynic - I think that was the original intent of the post you responded to? Wasn't that Julia's point? I thought she was agreeing with people who were saying that they refused to be policed into giving the SBR stuff a pass just because "Abbie in heels"?

I feel like there's some kind of misunderstanding or maybe I didn't Julia's post correctly.

Edited September 26, 2015 by phoenics

[LeeLeePanda]

To change the subject for a moment, I'm impressed with whomever is running the Sleepy Hollow Facebook page these days. I love that they are posting so many pictures of Abbie. I guess they fired the person who ran it last season. I'm loving it!

[cynic]

cynic - I think that was the original intent of the post you responded to? Wasn't that Julia's point? I thought she was agreeing with people who were saying that they refused to be policed into giving the SBR stuff a pass just because "Abbie in heels"?

I feel like there's some kind of misunderstanding or maybe I didn't Julia's post correctly.

I was agreeing with her and adding my thoughts. I should've made that clear.

[Julia]

I was agreeing with her and adding my thoughts. I should've made that clear.

 

No, I thought that was what it was. But it's good to hear anyway :)

[phoenics]

I was agreeing with her and adding my thoughts. I should've made that clear.

Oh okay! Sorry for my misunderstanding.

[jhlipton]

Jenny in S3: https://twitter.com/TheRealMissAbbs/status/647448903860797440/photo/1

 

Lyndie being a Jenny-like bad-ass:  http://lyndiegreenwood.tumblr.com/post/129935468335/in-case-youre-confused-about-who-you-want-on-your

[phoenics]

Jenny in S3: https://twitter.com/TheRealMissAbbs/status/647448903860797440/photo/1

 

Lyndie being a Jenny-like bad-ass:  http://lyndiegreenwood.tumblr.com/post/129935468335/in-case-youre-confused-about-who-you-want-on-your

I hope they find a way to bring that last item onto the show with Jenny! Man - bad ass is RIGHT!

I'm getting exCIted!!!

[cynic]

Fox tweets clip of Crane and Abbie's reunion hug.

 

https://twitter.com/SleepyHollowFOX/status/648139002168524801

[catrox14]

<3 MY BABIES

[Watermelon]

THE SIGH! Oh, damn my shipper heart.

[Miss Dee]

I can't see it from Canada, dammit!

[cynic]

I may have gone back and watched that clip more than a few times during my day. Gosh, I love them. Anyway, since I had such difficulty getting past it, I didn't even really notice the tweet above it. 

 

It's captioned "What fresh spell is this?" and the graphic says:

 

1 FOR SORROW

2 FOR MIRTH

3 FOR A WEDDING

AND 

4 FOR A BIRTH

 

https://twitter.com/SleepyHollowFOX/status/648165270016495620

 

What could that mean?!

[catrox14]

Ugh. No babies please.  No marriages and no babies.  Bleh

[DearEvette]

I may have gone back and watched that clip more than a few times during my day. Gosh, I love them. Anyway, since I had such difficulty getting past it, I didn't even really notice the tweet above it. 

 

It's captioned "What fresh spell is this?" and the graphic says:

 

1 FOR SORROW

2 FOR MIRTH

3 FOR A WEDDING

AND 

4 FOR A BIRTH

 

https://twitter.com/SleepyHollowFOX/status/648165270016495620

 

What could that mean?!

 

It is an augury rhyme.  Apparently in really superstitious times the # of crows (or magpies) you see is a portent of good or evil.  There are a lot of variations but the rest of this one goes:

 

One for sorrow, two for mirth,

Three for a wedding, four for a birth,

Five for silver, six for gold,

Seven for a secret not to be told.

Eight for heaven, nine for hell,

And ten for the devil's own sel'.

 

The rhyme does feel very Sleepy Hollow-ish.