Sleepy Hollow in the Media

[Iamsweetdee]

I LOVED this part:

Black women do not owe anything.

They do not owe their TIME, MONEY, TWEETS “LIKES”, TIME (YES I USED THIS AGAIN),HOPE, TRUST, BELIEF, FAITH, PROMOTIONS, DVD ORDERS, TUMBLR POSTS, REBLOGS, MOVIE TICKETS, FOLLOWS,   RETEWEETS, ET AL.

 

You are not required to “sit it out.” Or “have faith”. You are not required to accept bullshit.

 

Unfortunately though, I don't think there are a lot of options left. My other show, Rogue, has put Thandie Newton so far in the back seat, she might as well be on another show. Oh well, there's always my imagination...running away with me. 

[catrox14]

It's amazing how the show had pretty much everything right in the pilot and through most of s1 even the bits with Katrina were tolerable in small doses. But it seems to me that Betsy Ross might not even be the big problem. 

 

If the network believes a crossover with Bones is the way to go, then IMO they want Sleepy Hollow reduced to a standard stupid procedural/family drama. That's just a shame, because what IMO viewers liked was how charming, creative, silly, geniunely scary at times and just balls out bonkers FUN and DIFFERENT it was with a wonderful diverse cast. All the characters including PoC had something basically interesting to do in s1.

 

I know Goffman was in love with Katrina, but I almost feel like the network may have more to do with the demise of Vintage Sleepy Hollow (so to speak) than even Goffman. I mean they are doing the same thing with Betsy Ross they tried to do with Katrina.  But then they can also claim well we saved the show and pushed it back towards what had been in Vintage SH to gain goodwill again...but yet all signs are pointing to them not really seeing or believing or caring anymore what made it so wonderful to begin with.

 

I'm so confused by this show. I watch a metric butt-ton of TV and I don't remember anything like this on any show. I just don't get it.

[fantique]

Oh god, just got caught up and this is ridiculous. I probably won't watch this new season. I don't care anymore. I love Nikki Reed, but I am not interested in a season long thing with an overly sexualised female history figure to try and get me invested in Crane's love life. I don't want either of them to have a love life. Their only hope is if they say openly that she will stay in the flashback. Don't they see anything of interest in that character to explore? His past as an english noble(?) and scholar who rebelled against his family? The potentially awesome training montage of him learning witness stuff without realising it from his mentors? NO? Nothing? "He needs a Mrs Smith" is the answer to the flashbacks getting more interesting? 

 

I was not worried about Nicole and Lyndie until I hear that some idiot said that she is bringing the sexy and edge... Um, okay? Have they not seen Nicole and Lyndie  playing the Mills? Or is the melanin too distracting from their awesomeness? Ridiculous. What is so hard about a buddy cop adventure full of twistory? Also, that's great to hear about Crane's little friend's future adventures but what else are they planning for the damn season? Why are we only hearing about this and the dodgy Bones (which I used to love) crossover... What the actual fuck is going on? 

 

I will also say that the article is certainly right: we're customers and they need to satisfy us. Viewers shouldnn't have to beg for decent storylines. It's ridiculous and I am glad I never put my hopes into the entertainment basket to change the status quo. In fact, reading all of you guys has opened my eyes to a lot of fuckery I was not aware of, and you know what, my time is precious so when I don't like what I'm seeing, I switch off the channel. I am happy that recently I have used my righteous indignation for things more important than shitty TV that emotionally abuses me (coughgotcough) and am focusing on real life issues. In fact, I am sure that if everyone that cares enough to follow a showw, sometimes despite its declining quality, to support black actresses, imagine what  they could accomplish in actually important stuff. Not saying it's stupid to care but we should focus on energy on things that could actually be changed by us getting invested.

 

PS: anyone feel like this was a last minute decision and that something else went tits up? And do you think FOX started it? I am curious about all the histrionics and I feel like that Leigh guy is loosing it from some kind of pressure we don't know about. His responses reek of someone under pressure lashing out.

 

PPS: also did not know OJ got fired. Dafuq? Why? I mean, I don't feel that upset about it but they already had a tiny cast.  

Edited July 16, 2015 by fantique

[blixie]

 

If they clearly didn't want a black lead actress, they never should have hired one.

 

For fuckin' REAL.

 

I literally let myself get exicted about S3 on Twitter on MONDAY via some amazing Ichabbie fan art. Two days later they announce this bullshit Betsy Ross news, AND this bullshit Bones crossover when OBVIOUSLY Mulder and Scully should crossover OR at the very least cameo in Sleepy Hollow (I'd prefer a cameo I think with Ichabod as potential X-File that maybe Scully is jazzed about and Mulder insists is just cosplay gone wrong).

 

So yeah I had two fucking days of excitement before Fox/new-old Witless regime shit all over it. I really wanted to love it this year, but everyone BTS is determined to alienate what little audience is still left. BOO.

 

anyone feel like this was a last minute decision and that something else went tits up?

 

Yes, the last minute cancelling of Comic Con panel, followed by desperate release of "exciting news" SEXY EDGY WHITE GIRL news.

 

This is like Audrey on BB17 strategize, like what even are they fucking doing?!

[fantique]

Man, if I worked anywhere in the production of this I would totatlly write everything down and publish a tell all.

[DJG1122]

I know Goffman was in love with Katrina, but I almost feel like the network may have more to do with the demise of Vintage Sleepy Hollow (so to speak) than even Goffman. I mean they are doing the same thing with Betsy Ross they tried to do with Katrina.  But then they can also claim well we saved the show and pushed it back towards what had been in Vintage SH to gain goodwill again...but yet all signs are pointing to them not really seeing or believing or caring anymore what made it so wonderful to begin with.

Yes, yes and yes. It didn't work with Katrina so they are going to try EXACTLY the same thing with Betsy Ross to draw in that coveted 18-49 male demographic.

Edited July 16, 2015 by DJG1122

[HalcyonDays]

Man, if I worked anywhere in the production of this I would totatlly write everything down and publish a tell all.

 

Hell yeah. I would buy that the moment it was released, like when I used to snatch up the Harry Potter books the morning they were released! It could be a TV movie, for god's sake.

 

Well, I'm going to be the typical voice of dissention, in the sense of providing a different view from everyone else.

 

I am going to give them a chance. I am going to wait and see what other casting news comes out before October. I am going to watch and see how they establish this character and what her point is. And here is why:

 

First - remember at the end of last season, when it was released that Abbie was going back into the 18th century?? Everyone lost their motherfucking minds. And I distinctly remember the exact same comments that are currently on this page. "That's it, I'm done. I'm done with this show. I won't watch." Scroll back in this thread to around February and see. Everyone freaked out and said they were done watching.

 

And then what happened? Everyone watched. The episode was amazing. Critics raved about it. Most of us LOVED the episode and almost everyone proclamined that Sleepy Hollow is back.

 

Second - sidelining Abbie. We don't know if that will happen yet. I am 100% sure that it won't. However, I won't know if it will happen UNTIL the season starts. If this new character starts to become a K-wife, then yes, I am out. But we just don't know. To be honest, I have a feeling she might be the new "Big Bad." Not the incompetance of the red head, but someone very cunning. If not the big bad, as I said in the other thread - she will be part of the storyline that tells us why those two are the witnesses.

 

Third - If during the season, there is one episode that Abbie is not featured heavily, but otherwise she is, I am not going to worry about it. You know why? Because every actor has it in their contract that they need a break. Season 2, Mama was Tom Mison's break (Crane was sick, mostly off). Pittura Infamante was Nicole Beharie's time off and break. Unfortunately, in this case, red heads were taking over and that episode just compounded the situation. Otherwise, it is normal for an episode or two.

 

Four - There is almost 2.5 months until the season starts. There is going to be more information released. There will be filming behind the scenes shots. More casting information will be released. We will get episode synposes. Right now, we don't know anything.

 

I understand the knee-jerk reaction - we've been through this before so it's easy to apply the same mentality. BUT there is a new showrunner. There is three (four?) new writers. They know they are under scrutiny. We don't know what's going behind the scenes. We know nothing. All I can be sure of is that there will be a flashback and yes, Ross will be wearing a corset because guess what? That's what ladies wore.

 

Also, I get the hate for the sexy term. But understand it's Hollywood. Woman are judged as that. Agent Carter would have those words. Beckett from Castle had those words. Most would. And I guarantee you that when the initial casting description for Abbie Archer (it was Archer, before they changed it to Mills) was released, the words "Sexy" were in there. We've just never seen it. And look who they cast.

 

So I'm in. I will watch and see if it grabs me again, and if the show does, then I am happy. I mean, in this case, think of it from their end. They just got pounced on big time - to them out of the blue - about something that we have again, no clue about. Before anyone makes any snap judgements, I think we should all wait for the episode synopses to come out. The promo clips, the previews, the articles and everything that WILL come out, before October 2015.

 

That's my plea to everyone. That's my thoughts right now.

[FierceAfroChick]

 Clifton Campbell
✔  ‎@CCInnuendo 
Very disappointed in all the pre-judgement.  Super talented people working very hard to bring you the show you love #sleepyheads! TRUTH

11:10 AM - 16 Jul 2015

Edited July 16, 2015 by FierceAfroChick

[jhlipton]

It's just really, really bad PR, and the staff should know be now that they are part of the staff.  

 

1) They should have had some kind of panel at SDCC.  Even if it was just Lyndie (she was there), to meet the fans.

2) The minute the Betsy Ross story broke, Campbell and Jackson should have been on social media, telling us why this is not Katrina 2.0

3) On top of that, give some context to the Bones cross-over.

 

Don't dump stories that look bad, then say "trust us".  Because we won't.

[Indi]

 Clifton Campbell

✔  ‎@CCInnuendo 

Very disappointed in all the pre-judgement.  Super talented people working very hard to bring you the show you love #sleepyheads! TRUTH

11:10 AM - 16 Jul 2015

 

Boohoo!

 

Super talented? It's almost the same team from last year! Does he have anything to say about sexy super spy part 2? Is he doing anything to earn any trust? Since when is having more Crane drama and love life the show I love? Go eat rocks, Cliffy!

[blixie]

 

They should have had some kind of panel at SDCC.

 

I can actually see the wisdom of not having a panel if they really had nothing to "show" and are in the midst of heavy production, BUT I think they should have had a strong presence at the con, and thrown Nikki/Tom out there, again they don't understand these two and their chemistry on and off screen are HUGE selling points, they are beautiful and gorgeous and witty and smart, and this first big news push being about Betsy G-D Ross instead of about Ichabbie and their partnership, and all the things they know that got effed up last season is terrible management and terrible marketing. Especially after spring and summer where they have been building expectations that they GET IT and know how important Abbie/Ichabod are to the fandom. Because this Ross initiative speaks the bullshit to that "understanding and getting it" line social media.

[Moonsky]

It's just really, really bad PR, and the staff should know be now that they are part of the staff.  

 

1) They should have had some kind of panel at SDCC.  Even if it was just Lyndie (she was there), to meet the fans.

2) The minute the Betsy Ross story broke, Campbell and Jackson should have been on social media, telling us why this is not Katrina 2.0

3) On top of that, give some context to the Bones cross-over.

 

Don't dump stories that look bad, then say "trust us".  Because we won't.

 

This show has always been bad at PR because even in season 1 when they had better ratings they still sucked at it. I stopped expecting much in terms of traditional marketing for this show early into season 2 but I’m still somewhat surprised at how they seem to not even be able to get the bare minimum right in terms of online promotion. Forgetting about traditional media promotion for a second (like tv & radio spots, magazine ads, etc.) & just taking into account social media promotion, fans & critics spent most of season 2 giving FOX, the producers, & writers pointers on how to better market this show online & they still keep mucking it up.

 

All types of tv programs has some kind of online presence whether they be comedies, reality tv, the news, etc. but some rely on that presence more than others. Also different types of television shows will use them differently. If you have a tv show that has a strong online fandom which can happen in different genres but especially with scifi/fantasy shows, then you should at least have a PR team in place that knows how to navigate social media in a good way especially if the producers & writers are not capable of handling it properly like this show has really never been able to do.

 

As soon as I saw the latest casting news I knew there would be backlash, so I’m not sure how people connected to this show didn’t see this coming even if they weren’t there the last two seasons. I’ve seen fans & critics pan not only the casting news but the crossover & whether or not those people jumped the gun or not really isn’t the issue with why this was a PR fail for FOX yesterday. The real issue with yesterday was why it's another example of the people in charge of PR at FOX not understanding how to properly promote this show, which always leads to PR nightmares for those involved with the show.

 

Just by using common sense, if you’re a person connected with the FOX PR department that knows that this show spent its season 2 in one PR nightmare after another for various reasons like fans feeling like the black female co-lead’s storyline took a backseat to her white male co-lead, the white supporting female character’s storyline being more prominent (while constantly being described as desirable to all men around her) than the black female lead’s storyline (who despite being beautiful no one on the show seems to ever notice), both POC & white characters who have real history with the show not being properly utilized, etc. then how could you not see that some people would 1.) take offense that the first bit of substantial news about the new season is once again linked to the white male co-lead 2.) look at the description of the new white female character which to them is similar to what Katrina sounded like on paper but was never executed properly so to them it sounds like Katrina 2.0 or Katrina The Reboot 3.) ask why was this new character granted season regular status despite never making one single appearance onscreen (even if she was briefly mentioned before on the show) while characters who have actually appeared on this show in season 1 &/or 2 & who fans actually wanted to see more of weren’t granted season regular status before this new character was.

 

I think yesterday’s announcements were all an attempt by FOX to in their minds make splashy news that they thought would go over well with fans since they announced a somewhat known name like Nikki Reed who is connected to the Twilight franchise & a gimmicky crossover with Bones that probably would've gone over better if the crossover was with a show like the X-Files but in typical FOX fashion (& with the other decision makers involved with this show), they still don’t get that after mostly radio silence since the end of season 2, the first bit of real news from a show that fans already have an iffy relationship with shouldn’t be about a new character that they have no connection to but instead about the characters they actually do care about.

[jhlipton]

Another thing to add to the disappointment file: Lyndie was at SDCC almost full-time, it seems.  That means no Jenny in this "big production push".  Urgh.

[Dizzychickstar]

OT, I still like the idea of casting another male to balance the dynamic, like OJ would have done. This male need not be a love interest or take over Jenny's role like Hawley did. Instead this individual could be someone in the loop who knows more about the Witnesses' role in the war. Providing eye candy would be a bonus.

[DJG1122]

"sidelining Abbie. We don't know if that will happen yet. I am 100% sure that it won't. However, I won't know if it will happen UNTIL the season starts. If this new character starts to become a K-wife, then yes, I am out. But we just don't know. To be honest, I have a feeling she might be the new "Big Bad." Not the incompetance of the red head, but someone very cunning. If not the big bad, as I said in the other thread - she will be part of the storyline that tells us why those two are the witnesses."

I hadn't looked at it that way. If the press release had said something like "Betsy Ross. She's smart, sexy and, oh by the way, whose side is she on?", I would have smiled and thought to myself, okay, this might work.

Still pissed off at losing Orlando, tho.

Edited July 16, 2015 by DJG1122

[HalcyonDays]

Thinking more about this, I just wanted to add another thing. And this is a harsh reality / plea for people to watch the show.

 

If you want to change the tide, if you want to see more POC (especially woman of colour) headlining a show, you had damn well better watch THIS show.

 

Why? Because if this show fails, the only - only - lesson the executives in the FOX boardroom will understand, is that a genre/cop procedural show headed by a person of colour will fail.

 

They will not bother taking the time to learn why the show failed. All they know is that it was unsuccessful. They will think twice about taking any future chances on POC-lead shows, and they will second guess taking the risk trying another duo-lead show with a POC. To them, Empire will be a lucky fluke, but white-led casts are the way to go, because they have been successful and have been historically successful.

 

Other duo-lead shows ---> Bones (two white leads, in it's 11th season). Castle (2 white leads - 8th season). X-Files (2 white leads - 9 seasons with a current 10th). Elementary (2 leads but one WOC but not black - 4th season).

 

It is not fair (life isn't fair) but it is a reality and a harsh one at that. If you want to support Nicole Beharie and Lyndie Greenwood, if you want to show that POC in lead roles can be successful, then do not abandon this show. If you do, the networks will just have this mindset reinforced in their minds by this fact --> POC lead shows will most likely fail.

 

So watch the show. If it sucks half way through, then yes, let's abandon it. We will have actual evidential reason to do so. But as I said above. Give it a chance to succeed.

 

.................

 

As for the current promotion - shows always wait till later to reveal the stuff that will pull in others. It's summer - people are on vacation and not paying attention. September is when they want to remind you to come back to a show. That is when the good stuff will be released. People have short memories - networks want the good stuff released closer to premiere dates to keep it fresh in your minds. That's why we haven't gotten any Abbie/Jenny stuff yet. It's not time.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

I see ole Cliffy is getting it on Twitter as well.

Too many red flags waving, saying trust and be patient won't cut it with Sleepyheads.

[jhlipton]

Why? Because if this show fails, the only - only - lesson the executives in the FOX boardroom will understand, is that a genre/cop procedural show headed by a person of colour will fail.

 

That's why we haven't gotten any Abbie/Jenny stuff yet. It's not time.

 

But if it succeeds, will they praise Nikki B and Jenny or Nikki R?  (Too many Nikki's now They couldn't have picked someone with a different name????!)

 

Fox M sez: "I want to believe!"

[Julia]

He's in a rough spot. One of his underlings went way, way outside his brief and antagonized a lot of people. He has to be careful how he reacts, though, because most of the people who are going to be working for him were hired by the man whose job he took, and don't want to see him throwing his writers under the bus.

I do think the guy with the big mouth needs to get off Twitter, because he's apparently too big-headed to be responsible.

[HalcyonDays]

But if it succeeds, will they praise Nikki B and Jenny or Nikki R?  (Too many Nikki's now They couldn't have picked someone with a different name????!)

 

Fox M sez: "I want to believe!"

 

They'll praise the "brilliant" FOX executives who came up with the idea and the top level management who got the show to continue, and probably even Cliffy. Fact of life. Then they will pat themselves on the back for being so progressive and forward-thinking and casting diverse.

 

Those who actually deserve the praise probably won't get any of it.

 

But as I said - what they won't be is as gunshy in the future about picking a POC when they cast for a lead role.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Mr. Jackson needs to step away from Twitter.

Someone wrote an open letter, addressing her concerns as a fan.

He clapped back kinda salty, like How dare you lecture me.

She responded politely, voicing what I also noticed.

His idea of engaging the fandom, is basking in cyber pats on the back and praise.

But dude, you're a noob to SH.

Edited July 17, 2015 by MrsRafaelBarba

[HalcyonDays]

He clapped back kinda salty, like How dare you lecture me.

She responded politely, voicing what I also noticed.

 

I read this person's tumblr and know they are very passionate and devoted and into the fandom. She has had a lot of insightful posts and ideas in the past, but for the most part, I am on Jackson's side.

 

She posted this:

 

You mean putting in 12 hours against the 2 years we’ve lived and breathed this show and dealt with racism, sexism, condescension and dismissiveness from the writers and other fans, and being shocked when we don’t immediately extend to you the trust we extended to the old guard time and time again, and which was broken over and over and over.

 

He answered this:

 

Leigh Dana Jackson ‏@LDJackson 27m27 minutes ago

@dotty_tv you literally have no idea what kind of boat-rocking I do. What fights I've had or jobs I've lost because of what I believe.

 

I'm sorry, I'm on his side with this. We don't know anything about him and his life. And yes, he spent the last 12 hours tweeting but uh, the NEWS was fucking released 12 + hours ago. What is he supposed to do? Travel into the future in his DeLorean to anticipate this, and start tweeting on day 1 of his job. He's working. He has a life outside SH.

 

Fighting the racism a white person only enounters on the internet due to a television show is NOT the same as a person who has to live it everyday.

 

This guy doesn't deserve this backlash and neither does the show or showrunner at this point. Because we don't know anything about season 3 at all. Nothing but two casting notices. That's it.

 

Considering the events of the past few months, with the racial tensions in the US, in any other circumstance - any other - she would be slammed for being a entitled white person.

 

I have the same apprehensions most others do about season 3, but this is starting to go too far, to be honest. This is getting ridiculous.

[RiddleyWalker]

 

If you want to change the tide, if you want to see more POC (especially woman of colour) headlining a show, you had damn well better watch THIS show.

 

Why? Because if this show fails, the only - only - lesson the executives in the FOX boardroom will understand, is that a genre/cop procedural show headed by a person of colour will fail.

 

They will not bother taking the time to learn why the show failed. All they know is that it was unsuccessful. They will think twice about taking any future chances on POC-lead shows, and they will second guess taking the risk trying another duo-lead show with a POC. To them, Empire will be a lucky fluke, but white-led casts are the way to go, because they have been successful and have been historically successful.

 

………...

 

So watch the show. If it sucks half way through, then yes, let's abandon it. We will have actual evidential reason to do so. But as I said above. Give it a chance to succeed.

 

.................

 

 

 

I've hesitated to jump in to the discussion regarding the latest SH press releases and the Tweets from the writer Jackson. TBH, I felt this wasn't my fight--I was willing to see the actual shows before rendering a verdict but understood the suspicion of people who weren't and felt the PR was enough to drop it. 

After some consideration, I thought I'd post and make of it what you will. I've learned a lot on this site (and from many of you individually, most of whom I won't name--@Phoenics) and I think I've finally gotten a bit of grip on what motivates a portion of the fan base to be so protective of Abbie and so concerned with what we've heard lately. That being said, I know that it will NEVER EVER effect me the way it effects many of you. I'm a white male and there are whole host of shows I can watch and identify with the characters. There are very, very few (especially in genre) with a black female protagonist. As much as I might try (and I can--with some effort-- identify intellectually with a black female protagonist)  I can NEVER have that emotional identification and solidarity that so many of you have with Abbie. I think it really is a FEMALE black thing and I think the writer Jackson's tone-deafness is indicative of this. Are black men always sensitive to the plight of black women? You can answer that yourself….

I think @HalcyonDays makes some great points regarding the implications of the show failing. Though I can't ever feel what you all feel, I DO want you to have characters that you can relate to--to not be marginalized--in entertainment and well, be happy… I think supporting the show as much as your conscience allows while pestering TPTB about what is wrong, will be far more fruitful in the end than stepping away and turning it off. Despite what that one link said, the numbers of AA women alone are not enough to turn the tide. Making this an issue about a marginalized minority WILL make a difference. Look at what the LGBTQ community accomplished recently with much lower numbers through an appeal to Americans (and SCOTUS') better impulses. Don't give up! 

I'm reminded of Jesus parable of the "Unjust Judge" where a marginalized widow finally gets what she wants by her irritation of the judge and persistence. I think this parable (and Christ's non-violent resistance) influenced folks like Ghandi and MLK very much. :)  (I'm a Girardian Christian BTW)

Thanks, for your patience and please be kind… ;)

 

Edited July 17, 2015 by RiddleyWalker

[Julia]

I'm sorry, I'm on his side with this. We don't know anything about him and his life.

 

WADR to him and his life (which appears to have been rather privileged, based on his CV), he came out (as a junior, newly hired member of the writing team) with fists flying on social media ridiculing people who dared to question him (as he chose to interpret questioning the future of the show) when a) nobody knows him, and b) he just got hired.

 

I'm not really on his side there.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Julia

[HalcyonDays]

WADR to him and his life (which appears to have been rather privileged, based on his CV), he came out (as a junior, newly hired member of the writing team) with fists flying on social media ridiculing people who dared to question him (as he chose to interpret questioning the future of the show) when a) nobody knows him, and b) he just got hired.

 

I'm not really on his side there.

 

Damn, I had to look up what WADR meant!

 

Okay, so he's a lucky guy. If he were white, then he would be triply slammed. He's a black guy who has some privilage. Isn't that a good thing? It should be. I'm jealous but this is good. And by life, I mean from when he was born. Do you know what he does in his spare time? Do you know what elementary school he went to? The clubs he attended, the sports he played? What political group he supports, what charities he supports or what causes he cares about? Did he get picked on for his skin colour? Was he beaten up because of it? Did the cops harrass him? Did he lose out on opportunities because of his skin colour.  None of us know.

 

So now we had everyone upset for weeks that no one tweeted about Sleepy Hollow, then we get this one guy tweeting, and that's a problem too? So what if he just got hired for the show - he's done other stuff and he is an experienced writer. I assure you he's qualified.

 

Again, regardless of the mess on the show, I think it was completely disrespectful for a white swedish woman to try to school a black american man about the horrors of fighting racism and whatnot all because of a TV show, when he has directly encountered racism in his everyday life. No wonder he was appalled. Guess what would happen in any other circumstance? The girl would be dismissed as a privileged entitled white girl. "Who the hell are you to tell me - a black person - anything. You have privilege. I do not."

 

And I seem to remember many people being happy that two black people were added as writers for this season. Last season, it was complaints that there were no POC in the writers room. Now we have two (three maybe? two new ones, one from last year I think). And now he's dismissed as privilaged because he didn't tweet these words "The entire show will be about Abbie."

 

Because at this point, that's all I am hearing.

 

For the record, the show is about Abbie and Crane. Both will be featured. I hate to break the bad news, because I know many people here hate Crane, but it is a show with two people.

 

Lyndie Greenwood and Orlando Jones were series regulars. They didn't have much screen time. Neither did KW in season 1 who was also a series regular, along with John Noble. How do we know that Nikki Reed's agent didn't demand that she get series regular if the show were to sign her, and the show agree because they wanted her. Why does everyone think she'll be in every episode?

 

And what happens in a month when they cast a POC? Is all forgiven? What if they cast two? Does the Betsy Ross fallout get brushed to the side now? Will you guys apologize to Jackson? Will no one care about the cross-over anymore?

 

Because you know what this is starting to sound like. It's starting to sound a lot like the sandra's out there, counting how many white people are on the show. Here, we are counting the number of black.

 

What on earth is this person supposed to tweet when he's being attacked on all sides. He should have remained silent, tbh, but he tried. Metzner should have warned him, but then everyone would still be in a tizzy getting worked up over nothing and complaining that no one on the show communicates.

 

Well, no wonder they are not communicating, considering when they do, this happens.

 

I probably sound like I've done a flip-flop since my posts yesterday, but I haven't. I've just thought about it and reasoned it out in my head. But I will wait and see. I may side-eye the announcements, I may complain about the announcements, but there is still two months to go. And until I see it on screen, I reserve judgement.

 

I swear, this is like a person who has a slight cough, and the knee-jerk response of the doctor is to immediate euthanize them before getting any more facts.

 

I'm not trying to be harsh - I'm trying to be logical and reasonable about a show that I love. But I feel for this guy, man. He was skewered and I don't think he deserved it. He will deserve it if he ends up being responsible for another Deliverance. But he hasn't shown us what he - and the other writers and showrunner - are capable of.

[Julia]

I'm suggesting that as a professional he not pick a fight on behalf of a show he doesn't speak for.

[HalcyonDays]

I'm suggesting that as a professional he not pick a fight on behalf of a show he doesn't speak for.

 

Then not a single person here or elsewhere should complain about the lack of information or news or twitter interactions from the writers or actors and showrunner of Sleepy Hollow ever again.

 

Another analogy. You may have had a bad boyfriend/girlfriend in the past. But if you keep expecting your current significant other to behave like that bad relationship, those demons will taint and ruin your current relationship. You will never give your current mate the opportunity to prove his/her worth and you will never find out if this person will be the one to provide true love and happiness. (by "you", I mean general you, not you specifically Julia!)

[Julia]

Hypothetical: taking it to the concrete, if previously.tv had a serious suitor trying to buy it, would you feel as if it was appropriate for a mod to take on themselves to wade in on twitter as someone who speaks for previously.tv and attack people who had questions about previously.tv? How do you think people who might be able to transition to paying jobs after the sale would feel? Where I work, that would get you fired, and possibly sued.

A lot of people make a living from Sleepy Hollow. I think someone who thinks their inflated ego is more important than those peoples' futures has a perspective problem.

[RiddleyWalker]

Edited by author. Off topic.

Edited July 17, 2015 by RiddleyWalker

[Watermelon]

I've noticed fans seem to be upset and frustrated, insult people on Twitter, and then are appalled when their feelings aren't placated.

To be perfectly honest, I'd block them too. 

 

All these dramatic pronouncements of I'M NEVER WATCHING A-GAIN! are just ridiculous. Give the people an hour to even see if your fears are substantiated.  There are still casting announcements, writing AND filming to be had.

[HalcyonDays]

Hypothetical: taking it to the concrete, if previously.tv had a serious suitor trying to buy it, would you feel as if it was appropriate for a mod to take on themselves to wade in on twitter as someone who speaks for previously.tv and attack people who had questions about previously.tv? How do you think people who might be able to transition to paying jobs after the sale would feel? Where I work, that would get you fired, and possibly sued.

A lot of people make a living from Sleepy Hollow. I think someone who thinks their inflated ego is more important than those peoples' futures has a perspective problem.

 

You make a very good point and are correct in some way, but now I am not sure about your original point!! To use your analogy, as a moderator, we are supposed to be a representative of the PTV enterprise. However, as a moderator, we also have more inside knowledge than the regular posters here on this board have about many aspects of PTV. However, we also have a leader, and we have to abide by his directives. When you see something occur (say a warning or note posted or a post disappear or a board set up a certain way) there is a lot of behind the scenes discussion that had occurred that you will not know about. Also, we don't discuss this with the members of this board.

 

To apply this to SH, Jackson has the same kind of inside knowledge. He knows what goes on behind the scenes, and he knows the upcoming storylines, but as a writer and therefore a representative of SH, he also has to abide by his showrunner, and also FOX network themselves. He cannot reveal certain information because he is not allowed to at this point, due to FOX directives and Campbell's directives.

 

In terms of the questions asked, in your scenario of a sale, I would not be able to divulge any information about the sale of PTV (if I knew), because I have been directed not to say anything about it. All I can do is deflect and try to appease (which is what Jackson did). But the problem now is that he's getting slammed for his non-answers, but as in a sale, one cannot divulge information that can influence or colour a transaction like this. And in fact, to give an analogy in conversational form and using some recent news ala Reddit...

 

PTV: We hired a new programmer. Welcome Programmer!

Public: We heard he worked on Reddit. Reddit was racist crap. He sucks.

PTV: He's just a programmer. I assure you, he is quite talented and not a racist.

Public: Yeah but the last programmer was racist. This guy must be too.

PTV: No, really he's not. We've vetted him. We're watching him. Very closely.

Public: Prove it? He worked for Reddit, so obviously he's racist.

PTV:??? Uh, we can't for legal and business reasons. But really, he's not.

Public: Yes He IS! We've Decided. Nothing you can say will sway us. *stomps feet* Racist Racist Racist!!

PTV: ....

 

(Sorry for the terribly made up analogy 'conversation'....)

 

However, if I understood your original post, I thought you were saying that Jackson isn't a representative of SH and I disagree - he is. Maybe I read that wrong! I hope this makes sense!!

 

To add a wearying comment - I don't think I've ever had such strong feelings / made such decisive comments about a TV show ever in my life. Sleepy Hollow, oh how you tax me so. *sigh*

[MrsRafaelBarba]

: looks for time machine:

Wish I could go back to when S1 debuted and SH was must see tv.

Seems like a lifetime ago.

[Julia]

I don't see him appeasing. I see him telling people they're wrong to react the way they have, based on his extremely brief tenure, his limited resume, and whatever status he believes he has.

Basically, he walked in the door of a show where viewers have been treaten shabbily and appointed himself the fan police. He's not putting anything new on the table, because, as you point out, even if he knew something he wouldn't be allowed to discuss it. So the point of his overstepping himself? Other than getting him mentioned, I don't see one.

I maintain that's not a responsible use to put other peoples' livelihoods to.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Julia

[cynic]

Okay, here's my two cents.

While I think some of the fans' behavior on Twitter has been appalling, I have to say that Jackson is not helping his cause (or Sleepy Hollow's) at all. If he had just said something like while he hears and understands the concerns, he unfortunately can't really address them, but he hopes that the fans will give him a chance AND LEFT IT AT THAT, I think most of the past day could have been avoided. Instead, he got very defensive and curt. He's actually arguing with people. As someone in the public eye, he needs to learn to manage social media better. Trying to engage crazies point to point just fans the flames.

[jhlipton]

"Hello, new writers.  On some other shows, your task would be to write episodes.  But this show has a very loud and, at the moment, angry fandom -- a fandom that warned our predecessors about what went wrong, and who pushed for renewal when the show finally got turned around.  Anything you post is PR, be it good or bad -- please remember that and never antagonize our fans."

 

"Ok, so the Fox PR monkeys have made our job 100 times more difficult with this Betsy Ross leak.  Let's get out ahead of this... Acknowledge that angry fans have right to be angry.  Be patient with them.  Let's get Nikki B to Tweet about how excited she is about the new season.  Let's show them that we've heard their complaint and we're serious about addressing it. Whatever you do do NOT disparage or belittle the fans, no matter what they say.  Rise above."

 

"Geez, is Fox trying to kill us?  A cross-over?  With Bones?  WTF???  Let's try to be proactive -- show how Brennan is like Crane and Booth is like Mills.  Again, let the fans flame.  Be cool, and do not piss them off."

[HalcyonDays]

As someone in the public eye, he needs to learn to manage social media better. Trying to engage crazies point to point just fans the flames.

That's why I said earlier that they cannot win. They comment, shit hits the fan. They don't say anything, people bitch and whine. And you expect them to want to communicate with you? Hell no.

 

I don't see him appeasing. I see him telling people they're wrong to react the way they have, based on his extremely brief tenure, his limited resume, and whatever status he believes he has. Basically, he walked in the door of a show where viewers have been treaten shabbily and appointed himself the fan police. He's not putting anything new on the table, because, as you point out, even if he knew something he wouldn't be allowed to discuss it. So the point of his overstepping himself? Other than getting him mentioned, I don't see one.

 

Okay, here is the thing. Yes, he has a brief tenure, a limited resume (it's really not), and so called status. Okay. Anyone in a new job has a brief tenure. But guess what - when some individuals are on a new job, they get briefed by the experienced ones. They get background information and briefs and knowledge of the past events and past situations. However, it's also a learning experience. On-the-job learning, which this twitter mess will surely educate him. If you think that he doesn't know about the clusterfuck of SH season 2, you are mistaken.

 

This so-called status is quite earned. Because he writes for the bloody show. He has written for many TV shows. He interacts with the actors and network and producers, etc. of the show. He has experience of how network television operates. He KNOWS what's going on with the show that none of us will know.  He knows more as a newbie than any of us will ever know. He also has the inside knowledge of where the show is heading. And he knows the past mistakes. He is not the fan police at all. He was just trying to respond, but fact was, he got slammed and attacked and it was not deserved. He may have fumbled on his responses (and obviously got pissed off over the tweets) but he's not in the wrong.

 

Honestly, I think people are wrong to react this way right now. Remember, I'm one of the people who slammed Metzner for this exact same thing. The difference was, Goffman and Metzner has already been recorded stating their love for a particular redhead.  The season had already aired several episodes and the writing was clearly degenerating at the time.

 

Leigh D. Jackson has not been accorded any opportunity to demonstrate that he and his boss, CC, and the other new writers have diligently worked to prove that season 3 will be awesome.

 

Let's at least give them a chance.

[Indi]

I'm sorry, I'm on his side with this. We don't know anything about him and his life. And yes, he spent the last 12 hours tweeting but uh, the NEWS was fucking released 12 + hours ago. What is he supposed to do? Travel into the future in his DeLorean to anticipate this, and start tweeting on day 1 of his job. He's working. He has a life outside SH.

 

He should shut up or offer something substantial to calm down the fans. Instead, he's made everything worse with his sense of entitlement and inflated ego. He expects trust in exchange of nothing.

 

For the record, the show is about Abbie and Crane. Both will be featured. I hate to break the bad news, because I know many people here hate Crane, but it is a show with two people.euthanize them before getting any more facts.

The show has only really cared about one of them. "Both will be featured" has been said before as well and, yes, both have been featured, but only one got the focus. Now we're only getting Crane-centric news, but somehow we should be happy that Abbie is still in the show?

 

I don't see him appeasing. I see him telling people they're wrong to react the way they have, based on his extremely brief tenure, his limited resume, and whatever status he believes he has.

Basically, he walked in the door of a show where viewers have been treaten shabbily and appointed himself the fan police. He's not putting anything new on the table, because, as you point out, even if he knew something he wouldn't be allowed to discuss it. So the point of his overstepping himself? Other than getting him mentioned, I don't see one.

I maintain that's not a responsible use to put other peoples' livelihoods to.

He behaves as if he was due the same deference, as if he was some sort of Vince Gilligan or Shonda Rhimes, without the body of work to back it up. Oh, and of course, he considers himself levelheaded and fair in his interactions with the sleepyheads.

 

While I think some of the fans' behavior on Twitter has been appalling...

If he only knew what Goffman and the writers went through last season, he'd be counting his blessings.

[cynic]

That's why I said earlier that they cannot win. They comment, shit hits the fan. They don't say anything, people bitch and whine. And you expect them to want to communicate with you? Hell no.

...

I don't expect them to communicate with me at all. I could care less if they tweet, facebook, whatever. All I'm saying is if they choose to engage, it would probably work out better if they conducted themselves in a professional manner. If he wants to wade in the muck and antagonize people, that's fine with me, but he doesn't get to claim the high ground or my sympathy. There's plenty of wrong and tons of attitude flying around both sides of that timeline. And while I don't care about writers on Twitter, if I did, I still wouldn't agree with the notion that I should just be thankful for their presence no matter how they act. Nor do I think that he's in a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. There are choices between fighting with fans and ignoring fans completely. However, if he's incapable of doing anything besides just those two things, then yeah, he should probably just ignore the fans. He's not helping the show by trying to win fights.

[kimberella]

@ HalcyonDays: I also think Dotty's post was not very well thought out if not outright condescending at the beginning, even if her intentions were good. That said, the way I understand it, she wasn't the one, who sent it to Leigh, someone else did. And it's not like he is not condescending either. I loved his tweet to a black woman, with whom he had no patience discussing ("getting lectured" according to him) representation on TV when that's his job. I guess black women should shut up and let the menz do the job.

 

Now he got a Tumblr account and posted a reply to someone, which amounts to telling people how cool he is, but he can't actually appease any concerns in any tangible manner. 

 

The show has only really cared about one of them. "Both will be featured" has been said before as well and, yes, both have been featured, but only one got the focus. Now we're only getting Crane-centric news, but somehow we should be happy that Abbie is still in the show?

God, I love the both will be featured excuse. I remember it was the card to draw every single time anyone dared to ask "What about Abbie? we want more Abbie!" As if we didn't know she'll be on some scenes, but I guess that as long as she isn't killed off, we should be happy. Is that enough for Leigh Master of Representation? Let's see...

 

Because in the meantime, a different writer was engaging the fans in a less aggressive manner and this is what he said:

Shawna Jeneen ‏@ShawnaJeneen Jul 15

@JoeWebb13 Respectfully- When will Crane's love life and his women stop being the focus of SH? A sexy Betsy Ross, AKA, Katrina part 2.

 

Joe Webb ‏@JoeWebb13 18h18 hours ago

@ShawnaJeneen It's a valid concern, but stories set in Crane's past are a key part of #SleepyHollow. They inform his choices in the present.

Hasn't this been a constant since the pilot though? So "sexy" women (which naturally excludes Abbie) inform his choices in the present, that's why white women in corsets are needed in this show. They inform his character and that can only be done through love interests. Isn't he lucky?

Kim B ‏@sneetchstar 18h18 hours ago

@JoeWebb13 @ShawnaJeneen doesn't Abbie’s past shape her present life as well? Really would like to see more of that on the show.

 

Joe Webb ‏@JoeWebb13

@sneetchstar @ShawnaJeneen Absolutely it does. No spoilers, but there are big emotional Abbie and Jenny stories coming down the pike in S3.

Is he kidding me right now? Leigh, here is your opportunity to jump in and demand more than a repeat of S1 and S2. Can she have friends, romantic interests, a life? No, we'll have to do with a "Mama" per season if we're lucky, all the other stuff is for their coveted white lead. Thank you, Leigh!

 

In short, absolutely nothing has changed.

[Indi]

Now he got a Tumblr account and posted a reply to someone, which amounts to telling people how cool he is, but he can't actually appease any concerns in any tangible manner.

Wait, he had a hissy fit, because some people were trashing some of his shows? I am dying! LMAO!

Did he miss the part, where critics and reviewers also panned and mocked them (Helix anyone?)? Damn, he has the hugest of egos. I think I'm going to break my rule not to engage shitty people on Twitter and tell him Helix was a shiny beacon of good writing and that I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that it didn't win any Emmys.

He's a little bit of a hypocrite though, because he has no problem recognizing the awfulness of S2 or feeling offended when people compared him and Clifton to Goffman. As if Goffman hadn't also poured his little soul into S2.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Oh to be a fly on the wall in the Writers room these days.

[blixie]

I actually don't give two shits about what this guy says on Twitter (he is certainly not alone in failing at Twitter), except that for months they have sung a story about GETTING IT, and understanding how IMPORTANT Abbie is and her relationships with Crane and Jenny, and yet the first big splash of news is: sexy love interest for Crane, when the big problem with S2 (and a parts of S1) was over focusing on Crane's love/personal life to the exclusion of Abbie Mills. NO. NO. This is not evidence that they get it, and there is no reason a single person who loved this show in S1 shouldn't be skeptical AF about what is going to show up on screen in October.

 

I think someone said it really feels like someone one somewhere at Fox simply sees this show as Crane's Angels: past, present, and future. Only Charlie took up less space and allowed his ANGELS to fucking SHINE.

 

I'm going to tune in in October, but much like last year at ComiCon my expectations and excitement have been gutted. I will watch for Nikki/Tom, but the show is on short leash with me, if I don't see IMMEDIATE evidence of a change in how they write for Abbie Mills, and Team Witness, imma cash out.

[Wynterwolf]

I loved his tweet to a black woman, with whom he had no patience discussing ("getting lectured" according to him) representation on TV when that's his job. I guess black women should shut up and let the menz do the job.

 

I follow several black women on twitter, and as an aside to this, they have commented frequently with illustrations of issues related to the treatment of black women by black men.  I think that is an important part of the overall context here as well.   

[Timetoread]

I tried on Twitter - which I hate, BTW - and was ignored.  I've grown weary because their egos won't let them grasp the simple concepts.  Their job right now is to save a dying show.  It is not about bringing NEW ideas, it is about resurrecting the original idea that made it a hit in the first place - the two witnesses of the Apocalypse fighting together and all the wacky elements included therein.

 

Somewhere along the line the point got lost in Katrina hate, Ichabbie shipping, and the state of diversity on television.  When NONE of that mattered in the beginning: Crane was married to Katrina, Ich and Abbie were friends and partners, and the race of the characters was UTTERLY irrelevant.  It flowed like honey.  It was when the writers became self-aware and tried to "make" things happen and stop other things from happening that it all went to hell.

 

1. You don't have to manufacture sexy - Tom and Nicole are eye candy for all sexualities, just put the camera on them and that box is checked. 
2. You don't have to force love stories - Crane was married, that he loved his wife was implied.  Abbie is beautiful and shouldn't spend a second single unless it's her choice.  They are not monks so nobody begrudges either an occasional dalliance (IIRC most of us were very open to Crane hooking up with Reinactment Girl) but that should not be the FOCUS of the show.
3. There should be an element of scary around what is essentially a Halloween story - why on earth would you neuter Headless and give him a whining, pining ghost head?   Howabout having the Horseman of Death kill Ich to stop him from fullfilling his role as a witness rather than some idiotic story of Katrina being the woman every man and hornheaded demon wants.  I liked Noble and his being War was fine, but it should have been that the disguise the horseman wore was Noble, not him becoming an agent of the apocalypse because he had mommy and daddy issues.
4. Supporting characters - They'd hit it out the park with Orlando Bloom, John Cho, the Ghost of Clancy Brown and Lyndie Greenwood was a pleasant surprise. Now only Lyndie remains, showing her face for 5 minutes total in the entire second season.  Recasting to redo the same tropes that lost us those cited above is NOT a good move.

 

I am tired of complaining about this show.  The showrunners don't get it.  They hate us, even though we are the ones who STAYED when 60% of their audience bailed on them.  The disdain with which they regard us is astounding and they stopped listening long ago.  I think it's time we stop talking and stop tuning in.  Maybe they'll "get it" in the unemployment line.

[Timetoread]

I follow several black women on twitter, and as an aside to this, they have commented frequently with illustrations of issues related to the treatment of black women by black men. I think that is an important part of the overall context here as well.

The treatment of black women by black men is very, very bad. Notice that he said that he was PRO WOC because his mother, daughter, sister, cousin were WOC. Notice what is missing from this list? That right there IS the point. A lot, not all, of black men drank the Kool Aid that Black women - though very useful in lots of situations - are not as sexually appealing as their white counterparts and they have contributed A LOT to the desexualizing of WOC. Ironically enough, the ones occasionally giving us some props are white men. Sure some are still biased (looking at you Goffman) but it's not just my imagination that when Tom Mison looks at Nicole Beharie, his entire countenance tells me that in his opinion, he is looking at a beautiful (and sexy) woman. On my other show, I think the producers of The Walking Dead are going to need to threaten Andrew Lincoln to make him stop looking at Danai Guirira (Michonne) like he wants to swallow her whole! LOL!

My feeling is that if people just let the pieces lay where they fall, we'd see the diversity we crave. There are beautiful women of all races (I'm not discounting my white girlfriends at all!). All we ask is that tv stop TELLING us who is supposed to be beautiful and let us/society decide on our own.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Timetoread

[cynic]

...

Because in the meantime, a different writer was engaging the fans in a less aggressive manner and this is what he said...

I actually don't have a problem with those tweets. Sure, it's not what I want to hear and it makes me more wary than hopeful about season 3, but I can't fault his response. He can't tell us what we want to hear it that's not the way they've decided to go with the show. Even if they are going the way the fans want, there's still not a whole lot they can say. And at least he's keeping things professional.

Jackson, otoh, seems to take everything personally and is more interested in defending himself than talking about the show. Half his tweets are calling people out for being, in his opinion, aggressive and condescending and talking about how badly people are treating him when he's supposedly fighting the good fight. My favorite was when someone tweeted that he should talk about Crane/Abbie instead of sexy Betsy, otherwise this is the kind of response he gets and he responded by basically saying that sounded like a threat and he doesn't respond to threats. Ummmm, okay. Sure, the guy's tweet was kinda obnoxious, but seriously? That he created a Tumblr to defend himself is hilarious to me. He needs to take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard.

Edited July 17, 2015 by cynic

[DJG1122]

It seems that the showrunner and writers 'get' the K issue, but weren't aware that a lot of fans just don't want another white woman right now. In fact, don't want another woman period regardless of race.

Edited July 17, 2015 by DJG1122

[Timetoread]

It seems that the showrunner and writers 'get' the K issue, but weren't aware that a lot of fans just don't want another white woman right now, especially a regular.

 

The truth is that I don't think everybody had a problem with the "idea" of Katrina or her being white.  It is the assumption of the writers that the woman Ichabod turns to HAS to be white.  We were fine with Katrina in Season 1.  It was the attempt to make her the replacement for Abbie that burned our chaps.  And this "sexy, tough," Betsy Ross seems to reek even more of that agenda.  The fans are screaming - WE LIKE ABBIE, all attempts to replace, undermine or sideline her will be met with wrath.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

The treatment of black women by black men is very, very bad.  Notice that he said that he was PRO WOC because his mother, daughter, sister, cousin were WOC.  Notice what is missing from this list?  That right there IS the point.  Alot, not all, of black men drank the Kool Aid that Black women - though very useful in lots of situations - are not as sexually appealing as their white counterparts and they have contributed ALOT to the desexualizing of WOC.  Ironically enough, the ones occasionally giving us some props are white men.  Sure some are still biased (looking at you Goffman) but it's not just my imagination that when Tom Mison looks at Nicole Beharie, his entire countenance tells me that in his opinion, he is looking at a beautiful (and sexy) woman.  On my other show, I think the producers of The Walking Dead are going to need to threaten Andrew Lincoln  to make him stop looking at Danai Guirira (Michonne) like he wants to swallow her whole!  LOL!

 

My feeling is that if people just let the pieces lay where they fall, we'd see the diversity we crave.  There are beautiful women of all races (I'm not discounting my white girlfriends at all!).  All we ask is that tv stop TELLING us who is supposed to be beautiful and let us/society decide on our own.

 

        Well said.    If I had a dollar for every think piece I've read about :insert WOC character :

         is better off alone.      Too strong and independent, code for not worthy of being desired

         and loved by ANY man.    I'd be a Billionaire by now. 

 

         Last time I checked, a BW woman can be strong, indepedent and loved by a man.

[cynic]

It seems that the showrunner and writers 'get' the K issue, but weren't aware that a lot of fans just don't want another white woman right now. In fact, don't want another woman period regardless of race.

I don't think it's just about hiring "a white woman". It's about diminishing or even just flat out usurping Nicole's role as the lead female in favor of a white woman (because a black woman isn't enough) that is grating. This show is set up as a two hander, a buddy cop show like Castle and Bones, but, for some reason, TPTB are not content to let it be that buddy show, despite the general consensus that the sparkling partnership of Crane and Abbie is their greatest asset. Instead, they keep trying to minimize Abbie's role in favor of other characters (introducing a "Mrs Smith" for Crane's "Mr Smith" really? Who needs that when he already has a Ms Mills?). Also, normally, TPTB would be tripping over themselves to capitalize on the insane chemistry of their leads. Instead, they seem to be tripping over themselves to be one of the few shows in the history of television to quash any UST vibe between their widely shipped, gorgeous, chemistry-laden stars. It would be one thing if they just didn't want romance in the show, but that's not the issue. They keep trying to inject romance for Crane, just not for Abbie. He'll get some season arcing grand romance and adventure and she'll get one special episode and scraps of sidekick characterization.

So no, I don't think the issue is that Reed is white. It seriously is the regular status and Mrs Smith description implying that the partnership that will get the focus will be Crane/Betsy, not Crane/Abbie.

Fwiw, if they had kept Caroline around and sprinkled her sparingly for a low-key romance with Crane (and to make his clothes and churn his butter), I would have been onboard with that. She was great and I would have loved to see the other re-enactors too. Then again, I also like Hawley and his chemistry with Abbie (wish they hadn't given him a past with Jenny) so maybe my taste is weird.

Edited July 17, 2015 by cynic