Sleepy Hollow in the Media

[Trini]

Moved to the new thread.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Trini

[jhlipton]

Wonder if 'going to CBS to supervise and develop new shows' is ..spin...for going to CBS as a writer for one of their new shows? LinaLamont, how do you read this?

 

Transferred to Small Talk.

[LeeLeePanda]

Apparently Goffman "knows" people, has connections. So as with every other BS corporate environment, being a good worker is pointless. It's who you know. *sigh*

I'm not surprised at all. Honestly, I'm shocked he didn't anounce it sooner. I think that's why I never had the same seething hatred for him that others had. He's a Hollywood executive with fingers in many pies. Of course he's going to come out on top no matter what. That's just show biz.

That being said, I'm glad he's gone. I hope that his successor will turn things around and will be able to keep his(or her) ego in check.

[phoenics]

Aaaand Goffman is out! http://tvline.com/2015/03/10/sleepy-hollow-mark-goffman-leaving-showrunner-season-3-renewal/

A friend of mine posted this to my FB timeline and I literally scrambled to come here and see what everyone was saying.

So. HAPPY right now.

All I need now is to hear that S3 is a GO!!!

Come onnnnnn FOX!!!

Yeah, I'm being a negative nelly, but this stupid fandom does that. This is all positive news, along with The Following not doing as well in the ratings, season 3 has a chance to really shine.

 

Bring on the renewal!!

 

ETA: The comments in the SpoilerTV link are interesting. Of course we get those of us cheering and going yeah! Some comments are like "by getting rid of the showrunner", it's a sign the network has some confidence in the show season 3 (get rid of the weak links, confidence in moving in a new direction) and of course those bemoaning his leaving and of course that season 2 was great. Yeah.

 

So let's see:

Henry gone - Check

Katrina gone - Check

CFD done - Check

Irving alive - Check

Jenny alive - Check

Goffman gone - Check

Season 3 - TBD

I'm convinced they read our therapy thread. CONVINCED. This is literally EVERYTHING we wanted. I mean - I know I kept saying that in order to convince fans to come back, they would need to 1) Kill off Katrina and 2) Fire Goffman - but wow - I'm still kinda shocked it happened.

What I want never seems to happen, lol.

Oh happy day happy day!!

Someone on their tumblr pointed out a very good point: deals like the CBS one don't happen overnight. It takes time to find, negotiate and agree to it. I bet that when FOX stepped in around November and starting course correcting, Goffman realized the writing was on the wall. Coupled with the loss of his muse, I bet he decided to move onto "greener" pastures, as he knew there was no place for him at FOX. On top of that, having FOX come in and force changes can be a major shot to some people's egos.

 

Cross fingers that Season 3 will happen.

This is what I was thinking too - I also think that there was an agreement with Fox and Goffman. They wouldn't announce his departure until he had something else to move on to.

The networks are like the Big 4 Accounting firms - they just trade folks between them all the time - it's why you try not to burn bridges... Goffman really screwed up this show - I'm so glad he's gone. Finally some measure of justice - it wasn't right for KW to be carrying the burden of destroying this show alone. Goffman was the main culprit.

[Indi]

Does this mean I can watch the rest of season 2 with the knowledge that it will get better? I suffered too much from Katrina and Hawley related boredom to make it past the first ten or so episodes.

 

I wouldn't catch up. Just watch the last two.

[DJG1122]

"The Hollywood Reporter' article says Goffman reunites with Kurtzman and Orci who signed a 3 year deal for CBSTV in July, 2013. K/O just moved him to CBS.

Edited March 11, 2015 by DJG1122

[phoenics]

"The Hollywood Reporter' article says Goffman reunites with Kurtzman and Orci who signed a 3 year deal for CBSTV in July, 2013. K/O just moved him to CBS.

Aaargh! That just .... makes me unhappy and destroys my theory.

[DJG1122]

Maybe KW wasn't Goffman's muse. Maybe she was/is Kurtzman's or Orci's and Goffman was doing what he was told to do and when FOX, er, unemployed him, he went to K/O, who, er, repaid him for his following directions.

[phoenics]

Maybe KW wasn't Goffman's muse. Maybe she was/is Kurtzman's or Orci's and Goffman was doing what he was told to do and when FOX, er, unemployed him, he went to K/O, who, er, repaid him for his following directions.

I doubt that - Goffman said on numerous occasions that Katrina was his favorite character. Plus, even in interviews where he is asked about Abbie, he turns the discussion to Katrina. The only time he didn't do that was after Fox stepped in - and that only lasted ONE interview.

No, Katrina was his muse. KW may have had the ear of the other guys, but Goffman was the main culprit. You can tell in the season 2 finale - when Wiseman directed part of it and you know Iscove and K&O helped Goffman on that episode, the tone was different. Abbie was revered in that episode in a way she'd been pretty much left hanging all season. And there were too many places where the writing was just BETTER. No way Goffman did that on his own.

Even if K&O and Wiseman liked Katrina and tried to make her fit for KW's sake (and her begging them to), I'm still not convinced they were the reason why we got NB sidelined and KW put front and center... and all of the other casting decisions Goffman made.

Consider how Goffman is still claiming Katrina going evil was "the plan" all along - he clearly thinks only the plot point mattered - not HOW we got there. I think that his way of getting there is what killed this show - because he was trying to supplant NB/Abbie with KW/Katrina.

It's no coincidence that both Katrina and Goffman are gone, along with all of the CFD that dragged the show down (CFD was only there to prop Katrina up).

And besides Abbie - even Ichabod looked better in the finale - less jerky and stupid and much more like the original Ichabod. After seeing past Ichabod, it's even more surprising that present Ichabod could be so foolish about Katrina in the present day.

That line where Ichabod says, "the seeds must have always been there" after Abbie tries to make excuses for Katrina would NEVER have been there with Goffman left to his own devices.

Of course - all of this might just be me desperate to have S1 glory back with a writing crew who understands what fans love about this show and I NEED Goffman to be the sole issue and problem and that with him gone, we might get back to S1 glory and then something even better (as long as it builds on what we love about SH).

[blixie]

Goffman has his own deal he's only reunited with K/O in the sense they are all under the CBS banner, he's not part of their production company nor their projects, though I'm sure they talked him up at CBS when things went to shit on SH @ Fox.

[Indi]

No, Katrina was his muse. KW may have had the ear of the other guys, but Goffman was the main culprit. You can tell in the season 2 finale - when Wiseman directed part of it and you know Iscove and K&O helped Goffman on that episode, the tone was different. Abbie was revered in that episode in a way she'd been pretty much left hanging all season. And there were too many places where the writing was just BETTER. No way Goffman did that on his own.

 

K&O and Iscove were on the same train as Goffman, all about Katrina, trying to sell the hell out of her new and improved role in S2 during the hiatus. They barely talked about Abbie. It was all Crane, Katrina and their family drama for them. I can't say much about Iscove, because he's been the least outspoken, but when he has given an interview, he talked almost as much about Katrina and as little about Abbie as Goffman. So while I'm happy that Goffman is gone, I'm not going to forget the other three approved of everything that went on in S2 and were happy to kick Nicole out of her leading role, to promote their special snowflake of mediocrity. They are not victims of Goffman's creative choices.

[catrox14]

Iscove should not be thrown in with Goffman. He created SH. Abbie and Ichabod were his creations. He has supported NH and TM as the stars of the show and the stories he wanted. IIRC Iscove was literally working in a video store and attending film school in Canada when he was creating this. He got a meeting with Kurtzman who loved it and said yes we will back you. So it was K/O, wiseman and Iscove that who Co created and were involved in making the SH we fell in love with in S1. Iscove was /is still a noob and IMO did not have the sway with or over Goffman once Goffman became elevated to show runner. IMO K/O had already moved away from SH as a primary focus once they got to s2.

Iscove probably didn't want to lose his job as a writer so he spouted the party line. But I think it's clear that iscove wrote the finale since it was really the pilot flipped around.

IMO this mess is all on Goffman and his Katia obsession. Please let them go away and ruin their own show.

Edited March 11, 2015 by catrox14

[phoenics]

Goffman has his own deal he's only reunited with K/O in the sense they are all under the CBS banner, he's not part of their production company nor their projects, though I'm sure they talked him up at CBS when things went to shit on SH @ Fox.

Ha!! Theory back in play!!

[DJG1122]

Ha!! Theory back in play!!

Okay, I'm (all of us) are listening.

[MissAlmond]

I have backed away from all the anger I had with SH and have been quietly waiting to hear news of a renewal.  But when I saw that Mark Goffman was leaving, I knew I had to come back here ( LOL) although I've pretty much have said all I have to say about him.   I truly don't believe the whole debacle of last season was just him - I still believe it came on high from K/O.  I think Goffman was the mouthpiece, which accounts for Twitter comment on his behind the scenes book.  As I said before, IMO, that was his message to K/O that he would play fall guy but knew where the bodies were bodies so don't screw with his career.  And they didn't.  I would never blame Iscove, like someone said, he's too new in the game and whoo wouldn't sprout the party line at their first big job? 

 

As for the writing for the finale, I know people are mad at Goffman and therefore can't believe he actually wrote the finale.  But the man's name is the one listed in the credits as the writer so have no doubt that he "did" write it.  The WGA has their own rules for writing credits and I doubt they're going to roll over and play dead for Mark Goffman.  No, he wrote it which in my mind says, he, along with everybody else in that room "could" have written things differently for Season 2 if that was the direction ALL of them had wished to go.  But they didn't.  I refuse to talk about any actors on the show, only their characters, and it could be the thought of a powerful witch seemed too juicy to them.   Creators falling in love with certain characters isn't unknown.  Again, back in my soap days (I was a CBS woman!), I also watched The Young and Restless.  William Bell created the character of Malcom who was to rape his SIL and "that" was to be the story.  That is, until Bell started to think highly of Shemar Moore as an actor and wanted to keep him around as a good guy.  But how would that be possible since Malcolm was a rapist?   But Bill Bell wasn't a newbie in the soap world, he was very savvy and knew exacatly what to do.   He went to the soap press, admitted he had changed his mind about the direction of Malcolm and made a pact with his viewers that they would all pretend the rape never happened. In turn, Bell promised the whole incident  would never be mentioned again.  With that pact, Bell kept Moore and turned the character of Malcolm around with no protest from his viewers.  That is, until Bell died and his own children broke the pact his father had made with his audience, but that's another story.  The point is, if K/O, Goffman, Kim et al, had come out like Bill Bell and admitted, "Hey we were so in love with the very idea a powerful witch that we lost sight of what made our show work.  Please forgive us as we course correct."  Perhaps if they had gone humble, they might have found forgiveness and let's all march together into Season Three.   Instead they went smug, which is probably why some refuse to believe Goffman had the ability to write that finale and even if they did believe, they still wanted him, gone, gone, gone. 

 

Anyway, I await to see what happens next.  Still hoping to hear the show has been renewed and with a show runner who understands the show.  And, FTR, by this I don't mean catering to every whim on their audience.  Again, I have no desire to see the Crane Family Drama now become the Mills Family Drama.  I do expect them to realize how important the chemistry is between their two leads and that they work best together.  And develop that damn town, SH!  I mean, really, you have a town full of people who must have all sort of crazy secrets.  Example: Why did that girl's mother think it was ok to bring her lover to the father's funeral, especially since, apparently, the daughter is a witch?  Are things in SH so nuts the mother figured nobody would care?  Hire that girl/mother and let her and others in the town speak up!  That's how you lessen the burden of Tom and Nicole being in every scene. 

Edited March 11, 2015 by MissAlmond

[phoenics]

Okay, I'm (all of us) are listening.

Now I'm getting confused about where I posted what... here is where I talk about my theory of the ruin of SH being on Goffman's shoulders... nothing earth shattering - just that I thought my theory was blown if he was still with K&O... which he isn't, so theory back on!

Here's my post: http://forums.previously.tv/topic/23381-ratings-scheduling-and-watching-for-cancellationrenewal/?p=913040

[catrox14]

Goffman may have gotten credit for writing the episode but he didn't do anything really original to speak of because it was obviously a direct life of the pilot which Iscove wrote.  I see no compelling reason why Kurtzman and Orci who seem to be pretty damn savvy and know what works with chemistry between leads given all their other shows, (Alias, Fringe, ould really have an active hand in dismantling their own show which was a big sleeper hit.  I find no logic to that. IMO they were too busy breaking up since they no longer work on films together as a team. Orci was busy with Matador and Kurtzman and Orci with developing Scorpion so I think they just stepped back and gave Goffman the reins.  And he ran that horse that carried Katrina right into the ground and now we can thankfully stop beating that particular dead horse. 

[MissAlmond]

Goffman may have gotten credit for writing the episode but he didn't do anything really original to speak of because it was obviously a direct life of the pilot which Iscove wrote.  I see no compelling reason why Kurtzman and Orci who seem to be pretty damn savvy and know what works with chemistry between leads given all their other shows, (Alias, Fringe, ould really have an active hand in dismantling their own show which was a big sleeper hit.  I find no logic to that. IMO they were too busy breaking up since they no longer work on films together as a team. Orci was busy with Matador and Kurtzman and Orci with developing Scorpion so I think they just stepped back and gave Goffman the reins.  And he ran that horse that carried Katrina right into the ground and now we can thankfully stop beating that particular dead horse. 

 

 K/O are Hollywood producers and have enough connections that someone would have told them about the bad reviews hitting the media about SH.  Roberto Orci may be called a lot of things, but being timid isn't one of them, this is the same man that got into a Twitter pissing contest with Star Trek fans.  If he or Kurtzman had wanted change, they would have picked up the phone, asked Mark Goffman what the hell was he doing, and demanded change.  And yet, nothing.  FOX, OTOH, says they want creative changes and presto, change occurs.  Also, Orci's wife, Melissa Blake, is listed as one of the writers of "Pittura Infamante" - an episode many claim was supposed to be the crowning of Katrina as the female lead.  Did  Orci not even discuss with her how he envisioned SH?   Yes,  I believe they all were in agreement, there are even interviews out there with K/O where they talk about the direction of Season 2.  Personally, I think they all grew up watching "Bewitched" reruns after school and loved the idea of a powerful witch.   Goffman was just louder in his Katrina love which is why he is now gone. 

[DeLurker]

 Personally, I think they all grew up watching "Bewitched" reruns after school and loved the idea of a powerful witch.   Goffman was just louder in his Katrina love which is why he is now gone. 

I did too, but Samantha Stevens was charming and good at being a witch.  I said it way back when, but they modeled Katrina after Aunt Clara.

[HalcyonDays]

 K/O are Hollywood producers and have enough connections that someone would have told them about the bad reviews hitting the media about SH.  Roberto Orci may be called a lot of things, but being timid isn't one of them, this is the same man that got into a Twitter pissing contest with Star Trek fans.  If he or Kurtzman had wanted change, they would have picked up the phone, asked Mark Goffman what the hell was he doing, and demanded change.  And yet, nothing.  FOX, OTOH, says they want creative changes and presto, change occurs.  Also, Orci's wife, Melissa Blake, is listed as one of the writers of "Pittura Infamante" - an episode many claim was supposed to be the crowning of Katrina as the female lead.  Did  Orci not even discuss with her how he envisioned SH?   Yes,  I believe they all were in agreement, there are even interviews out there with K/O where they talk about the direction of Season 2.  Personally, I think they all grew up watching "Bewitched" reruns after school and loved the idea of a powerful witch.   Goffman was just louder in his Katrina love which is why he is now gone. 

 

Melissa Black is Orci's wife? Oh well, now that starts to explain a lot. So the writers room was filled with Goffman and Iscove (who already had connections), yes-man and spouses, not those who are actually necessarily qualified to write for and handle a TV show like this. Makes perfect sense.

 

Blake wrote these episodes: John Doe, The Vessel (Teleplay only), Root of All Evil (with Donald Todd), and Pittura Infamante.

 

And I remember the Orci twitter fights. Sounds familiar?? Goffmand and Metzner went off on us - the "real fans" - too. Again, I am not surprised. We just didn't understand his "brilliant" vision, just like the ST fans didn't understand Orci's "brilliant" vision. The difference with SH I think, is that rating and reviews and media articles backed us up. If ST failed miserably and was a box office bomb, then Orci would have no leg to stand on. We did, because there was a direct correlation between reviews and ratings declining. Same type of entitled arrogant mentality all working together, maybe?

 

I've long ignored K/O as a factor though. I figured that once they bailed at the end of season 1, they went off to do other things. They are there in name only, not anything to really do with it. Maybe they peeked back in, once Blake told her husband of the clusterfuck fallout of season 2. But other than that, I think they really could care less. They have other things to worry about. JMO.

[jhlipton]

Top four!  Beating (but just barely) Stefan and Caroline of The Vampire Diaries

 

Vote, peoples!  http://www.eonline.com/news/634871/2015-tv-s-top-couple-tournament-vote-in-the-final-4-now

[blixie]

Holy crap Olicty didn't beat Hook/Emma(I do like them HELLO HOOK)? but REALLY? I mean I guess I don't know enough about that fandom but overall Oliciters are so damn loud and ORGANIZED, they must be pissed about S3 to let this one go.

 

I think Icabbie might have this in the bag save armies of people who are voting their brains out for Hook/Emma.

[phoenics]

K/O are Hollywood producers and have enough connections that someone would have told them about the bad reviews hitting the media about SH.  Roberto Orci may be called a lot of things, but being timid isn't one of them, this is the same man that got into a Twitter pissing contest with Star Trek fans.  If he or Kurtzman had wanted change, they would have picked up the phone, asked Mark Goffman what the hell was he doing, and demanded change.  And yet, nothing.  FOX, OTOH, says they want creative changes and presto, change occurs.  Also, Orci's wife, Melissa Blake, is listed as one of the writers of "Pittura Infamante" - an episode many claim was supposed to be the crowning of Katrina as the female lead.  Did  Orci not even discuss with her how he envisioned SH?   Yes,  I believe they all were in agreement, there are even interviews out there with K/O where they talk about the direction of Season 2.  Personally, I think they all grew up watching "Bewitched" reruns after school and loved the idea of a powerful witch.   Goffman was just louder in his Katrina love which is why he is now gone.

Again - there is a difference between agreeing with a general direction and agreeing with EXECUTION.

I still contend that some of the things we were most unhappy about were in the execution.

Additionally, you also have to remember that Goffman was blaming ALL of our discontent on shipping. That was their standard line for about a month after Deliverance. Remember Goffman's "trust us!" over and over again in interviews?

Only when ratings really dropped (plummeted) AND the critics were echoing what fans were saying (and calling out our twitter hashtags as support for their own critiques) did all of them finally listen up.

I still do NOT believe that K&O fully knew what Goffman was doing - not based on interviews from that time period and also not from earlier interviews - especially ones where they so clearly espoused what SH was about. They knew what fans loved about SH - I honestly believe that the issue here was that Goffman had to dismantle that in order to bring Katrina front and center. They might have agreed with making Katrina more relevant, but I don't think they ever meant for the show to destroy the things we cared about in S1. And clearly, someone knew what we loved - because they brought it back in the finale.

We had 4 major complaints:

1. Ichabbie/Abbie sidelined and the Witness thing minimized to prop up Katrina

2. Ichabod assassinated as a character to prop up the CFD and Katrina

3. Jenny/Irving sidelined (and replaced by white males - Abraham, Hawley, Henry)

4. The fun/scariness of SH was gone in S2 (along with the respect for the genre)

Here's the thing - they could have made Katrina more relevant and STILL not messed up 1-4. The reason 1-4 got messed up was because Goffman is a hack who didn't know how to do it - OR he didn't WANT to do it (notice the interviews about pulling away from the Revelations stuff that MADE this show so popular).

I just don't think K&O are THAT dumb as to okay dismantling everything about SH that made it great in favor of Katrina. I think they were fine with giving Katrina a real story (and many fans wanted that), but I seriously doubt they would have said, "Yeah - dismantle EVERYTHING about SH and what made it a ratings bonanza in S1 to make her relevant!"

Nope.

And Orci's wife can't write for sh!t then. That was a terrible episode - and the one where the ratings took yet ANOTHER dive with her little Colonial Hart to Hart.

Now I want to look her up to see what she's done in the past - I bet it's a Harlequinn romance-fest. Not appropriate for this show.

Edited March 12, 2015 by phoenics

[catrox14]

It took Captain Swain recruiting 5 other fandoms to defeat Olicity.

[phoenics]

Top four!  Beating (but just barely) Stefan and Caroline of The Vampire Diaries

 

Vote, peoples!  http://www.eonline.com/news/634871/2015-tv-s-top-couple-tournament-vote-in-the-final-4-now

I voted! Let's keep it up!

It took Captain Swain recruiting 5 other fandoms to defeat Olicity.

I don't doubt it.

I think Icabbie might have this in the bag save armies of people who are voting their brains out for Hook/Emma.

The fact that they aren't even a canon couple and have never even kissed - this is AMAZING.

TPTB really need to look at this and stop fooling around. Don't run from the Ichabbie chemistry - just go with it. You don't HAVE to put them together to play off of that chemistry.

I will never understand why TPTB were so determined to "kill" it. Fans weren't screaming for them to put them together - and they were still watching - until the Katrina overkill and CFD. Ugh - stupid TPTB.

Edited March 12, 2015 by phoenics

[CinnamonCW]

 K/O are Hollywood producers and have enough connections that someone would have told them about the bad reviews hitting the media about SH.  Roberto Orci may be called a lot of things, but being timid isn't one of them, this is the same man that got into a Twitter pissing contest with Star Trek fans.  If he or Kurtzman had wanted change, they would have picked up the phone, asked Mark Goffman what the hell was he doing, and demanded change.  And yet, nothing.  FOX, OTOH, says they want creative changes and presto, change occurs. 

By the time bad reviews really exploded in the MSM circa November they were filming 2.13-14. Kurtzman/Orci would have had to get in line. FOX was already demanding changes. Adding the Jenny scenes in 'Pittura Infamante,' writing Hawley out at the end of 'Kali Yuga,' and omitting Katrina's original role in 'What Lies Beneath' are some of what likely resulted from meetings with FOX (including one around the time #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter peaked).

Kurtzman/Orci had been on other projects and drama of their own since leaving Goffman behind mid/late Season One. It's IMO unlikely they'd abruptly decide to fundamentally change the show upon departing and that Goffman was somehow just left with instructions to carry out this soapish, Katrina-centric agenda. Goffman's influence would widen with K/O's exit, not shrink.

Not to say they're blameless! Just IMO at worst they moved on creatively from 'Sleepy Hollow' and just hoped for the best. Of course they would tow whatever the party line was in interviews (what else would they do?), but IMO all evidence and likelihood points to Goffman as the culprit. .

[Minneapple]

It took Captain Swain recruiting 5 other fandoms to defeat Olicity.

Olicity were being helped by the Swan Queen shippers.

 

Yes, fandom is strange. Don't ask me to explain, please.

[catrox14]

Olicity were being helped by the Swan Queen shippers.

 

Yes, fandom is strange. Don't ask me to explain, please.

 

How are there even Swan Queen shippers LOL that's funny

[HalcyonDays]

Top four!  Beating (but just barely) Stefan and Caroline of The Vampire Diaries

 

Vote, peoples!  http://www.eonline.com/news/634871/2015-tv-s-top-couple-tournament-vote-in-the-final-4-now

 

Also, the Ichatrina shippers are actively voting against Ichabbie, simply because they lost their own stale dry boring witch (good) and ship (excellent). For that reason alone, I'll vote like mad to get Ichabbie to win. I want my season 3, but I am enjoying the little victories in the meantime.

 

But it does make me laugh - the ship that has never kissed is in the final four. Ah, the power of the Innanet.

[jhlipton]

But it does make me laugh - the ship that has never kissed is in the final four. Ah, the power of the Innanet.

 

If it wasn't against Ich and Abbie, I'd vote for Hook and Emma as well (and did in the previous rounds).  They're a great couple and have amazing chemistry together.  They're hampered by writers (doesn't that sound familiar?) but are great even so.

[netlyon2]

As for the writing for the finale, I know people are mad at Goffman and therefore can't believe he actually wrote the finale.  But the man's name is the one listed in the credits as the writer so have no doubt that he "did" write it.  The WGA has their own rules for writing credits and I doubt they're going to roll over and play dead for Mark Goffman.  No, he wrote it which in my mind says, he, along with everybody else in that room "could" have written things differently for Season 2 if that was the direction ALL of them had wished to go.

My crackpot theory is that he was only able to write a good, balanced episode when he caught a Seinfeld rerun and decided to try being Opposite-Goffman!

[Watermelon]

Got the lead by 13% so far.

[catrox14]

Woo! I'm trying to rally the Oliciters from the Arrow thread to support Ichabbie. I hope it's working

[Miss Dee]

This gives "Shipping Wars" a whole new meaning. :)

[MissAlmond]

Well, I'm not like the creatives of SH who apparently believe in arguing a point to the death.  I will simply "agree to disagree" on the issue of K/O and Season 2 and leave it at that.  Carry on. 

Edited March 13, 2015 by MissAlmond

[DJG1122]

Maybe Orci & Kurtzman were well aware of and agreed to Goffman totally changing SH however he wanted. 'Scorpion', their new baby, was and still is on at 9 PM Monday night on CBS in the same time slot as SH. Since they had the deal with CBS, maybe they wanted SH to fail.

Edited March 13, 2015 by DJG1122

[Happytobehere]

I did too, but Samantha Stevens was charming and good at being a witch.  I said it way back when, but they modeled Katrina after Aunt Clara.

That good poster is a vicious attack upon Aunt Clara. Clara was a beautiful kind -hearted person who never intentionally hurt anyone or anything. She frequently faced that wrath of her sisters for sticking up for Darrin and Samantha. Clara was suffering fro what I call for lack of a better term, witch dementia. She tried spells that didn't work, not becuase she could do spells correctly but becuase as she aged, she forgot the proper way to do the spells, hence the stuttering when trying to cast spells.

Aunt Clara was a wonderful woman who probably was an excellent witch in her day. KATRINA CRANE IS NO AUNT CLARA.

[HalcyonDays]

Maybe Orci & Kurtzman were well aware of and agreed to Goffman totally changing SH however he wanted. 'Scorpion', their new baby, was and still is on at 9 PM Monday night on CBS in the same time slot as SH. Since they had the deal with CBS, maybe they wanted SH to fail.

 

Ohhhhh....conspiracy theory...I like it. I would not be surprised!

[DeLurker]

That good poster is a vicious attack upon Aunt Clara. Clara was a beautiful kind -hearted person who never intentionally hurt anyone or anything. She frequently faced that wrath of her sisters for sticking up for Darrin and Samantha. Clara was suffering fro what I call for lack of a better term, witch dementia. She tried spells that didn't work, not becuase she could do spells correctly but becuase as she aged, she forgot the proper way to do the spells, hence the stuttering when trying to cast spells.

Aunt Clara was a wonderful woman who probably was an excellent witch in her day. KATRINA CRANE IS NO AUNT CLARA.

You've thoroughly and properly shamed me. You're 100% correct and I extend my sincerest apologies to Aunt Clara.

[catrox14]

There really is no other witch on TV, I can think of that was as supposedly powerful as Katrina yet really incompetent unless evil and even then....meh.

 

Sabrina? Nope

Samantha? Nope

The sisters from Charmed? Nope

Maybe the witch played by Charisma Carpenter on Supernatural. She wasn't really incompetent just in a protracted war with her husband, James Marsters. But that's not fair to Charisma Carpenter because she can actually act....

Maybe one of the witches on Salem??

 

I got nuthin...

[DJG1122]

There really is no other witch on TV, I can think of that was as supposedly powerful as Katrina yet really incompetent unless evil and even then....meh.

 

Sabrina? Nope

Samantha? Nope

The sisters from Charmed? Nope

Maybe the witch played by Charisma Carpenter on Supernatural. She wasn't really incompetent just in a protracted war with her husband, James Marsters. But that's not fair to Charisma Carpenter because she can actually act....

Maybe one of the witches on Salem??

 

I got nuthin...

The witches on Salem are pretty BA. When they do a spell, they get it done. No StruggleWitches in that bunch.

Edited March 14, 2015 by DJG1122

[CinnamonCW]

It started on tumblr and now people are #Misoning (posting selfies with one eye-brow raised [or not quite]) on Twitter - https://twitter.com/hashtag/misoning?f=realtime&src=hash

[catrox14]

To be fair Dean Winchester was Misoning before Misoning was cool.  But that's pretty damn funny.

[RiddleyWalker]

To be fair Dean Winchester was Misoning before Misoning was cool.  But that's pretty damn funny.

Oh, and John Belushi was doing it well before that!

[catrox14]

Oh, and John Belushi was doing it well before that!

 

Oh yes! The King of Raised Eyebrows! Good call

[HalcyonDays]

It started on tumblr and now people are #Misoning

 

Okay, I just had to look this up and am dying with laughter. Hilarious! Hot damn, this is a great fandom. Apparently Orlando is tweeting this around too. Mison must think this fandom absolutely insane.

 

For the record, the originator in all of his brow-lifting glory:

 

 

[DeLurker]

And John could do both.

 

There's got to be better clips out there, but I stink at that stuff.

[jhlipton]

Now at 15%.  Vote, vote, vote!!!

 

Should we make it to the finals, we are going to get creamed by Captain Swan!  LOL

[cynic]

Our lead is down to 10%. Steroline fans must be doing some serious power voting. They've been gaining at least 0.3% every twenty minutes for over two hours. thank goodness our lead was so big coming into this final stretch. Most of the Ichabbie fans must have taken the day off thinking that we had this in the bag.

[catrox14]

/puts back on voting hat