Players in the People v OJ Simpson: Kathryn, Faye and Various Others

[Vicky8675309]

I read all the hate directed at Faye and I still don't get it. At worst, she exploited a dead friend for financial gain. That is not Enron level shit. She didn't ruin anyones lives. OJ ruined his kids lives and OJ murdered (imo) his wife. Faye may have been greedy (or trying to make $ to support herself or trying to make her dead friend relatable or get her real story across) but I just can't seem to find the dislike for her that I am reading about. I can't stand OJ but I don't feel that negative about Faye. I also think, based on comments here, that Nicole sounds like a normal human in that she was not a saint (thank you Faye for making her human [imo]) and had flaws like we all do. Nothing she could have done to justify her murder unless it was in self-defense which it obviously was not. Nothing, except self-defense, would justify her death.

 

I know this opinion will upset people since I have read the rage about Faye. However, it seems like the more outrage I read the more I feel sorry for her. I wonder how Nicole would have felt about it all. Personally if I was Nicole and any good could come of my death then great. I guess the touchy part would be the kids but they were too young then to read Faye's book. Later in life, I would have hoped they were raised to be open minded and nonjudgmental...but yeah, I can see that being the tricky part. Anyway, Faye spoke about her dead best friend and cashed in on it. Questionable, sure but I just don't feel enraged about the "exploitation".

 

just my opinion and I realize it goes against the grain

[Umbelina]

http://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/connie-britton-watched-faye-resnick-on-the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills

Connie Britton Totally Watched Faye Resnick on The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills

With only days until the premiere of American Crime Story: The People v. O.J. Simpson, Connie Britton is owning up to her love of The Real Housewives. This development is particularly important since Connie is playing The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills pal Faye Resnick in the Ryan Murphy series.

[mbutterfly]

http://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/connie-britton-watched-faye-resnick-on-the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills

I'm hoping Britton will be on-screen quite a bit. I don't know how that will be likely (maybe flashbacks?) but I can't wait to see her portrayal. 

[Umbelina]

I don't know her work.  She, appearance only mind you, seems like an odd choice to me.  She looks very Irish to me, pale skin, freckles, bright blue eyes. 

Edited January 27, 2016 by Umbelina

[zoeysmom]

I read all the hate directed at Faye and I still don't get it. At worst, she exploited a dead friend for financial gain. That is not Enron level shit. She didn't ruin anyones lives. OJ ruined his kids lives and OJ murdered (imo) his wife. Faye may have been greedy (or trying to make $ to support herself or trying to make her dead friend relatable or get her real story across) but I just can't seem to find the dislike for her that I am reading about. I can't stand OJ but I don't feel that negative about Faye. I also think, based on comments here, that Nicole sounds like a normal human in that she was not a saint (thank you Faye for making her human [imo]) and had flaws like we all do. Nothing she could have done to justify her murder unless it was in self-defense which it obviously was not. Nothing, except self-defense, would justify her death.

 

I know this opinion will upset people since I have read the rage about Faye. However, it seems like the more outrage I read the more I feel sorry for her. I wonder how Nicole would have felt about it all. Personally if I was Nicole and any good could come of my death then great. I guess the touchy part would be the kids but they were too young then to read Faye's book. Later in life, I would have hoped they were raised to be open minded and nonjudgmental...but yeah, I can see that being the tricky part. Anyway, Faye spoke about her dead best friend and cashed in on it. Questionable, sure but I just don't feel enraged about the "exploitation".

 

just my opinion and I realize it goes against the grain

I have been kind of on the same page.  If Nicole were to pick people who would profit from her death I think it would be friends and family.  I know I would.  Certainly not the prosecutors who lost the case or the defense attorneys, or random writers who delved into the murders.  Nicole obviously knew what she was doing and who she was and she was at a point in her life that things were about to change.  Hopefully for the better without OJ. 

 

That is why I keep wondering what is it about Faye that this inner circle holds her so dear?  It seems they lived through her addiction and the book (against all public outrage) and continue in their friendship with her.  They didn't have to and I am sure it would have been easy to just blow her off.  Instead they are celebrating her wedding and including her in their lives.  She seems at peace with herself and has never waivered from her love and friendship for Nicole.  Lost in all of this about Faye was her honest desire to see OJ convicted for murdering Nicole.

I don't know her work.  She, appearance only mind you, seems like an odd choice to me.  She looks very Irish to me, pale skin, freckles, bright blue eyes. 

She has been on American Horror Story and Friday Night Lights and WWHL .  She is one of Andy Cohen's favorites.

[GreatKazu]

I thoroughly enjoyed Connie's work on American Horror Story. I do find it a bit odd as well that she was chosen to play Faye. I guess I will have to watch the movie and see how she comes across.

[Umbelina]

Oh, I remember her now, from Friday Night Lights.  That makes her an even weirder choice to play Nicole (for me.)

 

I pretty much can't stand American Horror Story.  I know, I'm alone there, tried, got through one season, watched bits and pieces of others, just don't care for it.

 

I'm more often than not, in the minority in my opinions of the "wives" so  I understand that feeling and sympathize.  In Faye's case though?  ICK!  Double YUCK!  She grates on me in every way possible, and did on RHBH before I ever put it together that she was THAT Faye from OJ days. 

[lunastartron]

I will always be at a loss as to why an authentic, multidimensional portrayal of Nicole was impossible without or furthered by anecdotes about her, say, performing fellatio on a casual acquaintance while he slept. As for hoping her children aren't "judgmental," I think that formulation transposes responsibility from Faye for authoring the book to Nicole's family for their response - and I think that is appalling. For one, Nicole by definition, after struggling through a decades-long abusive marriage to muster enough agency to separate herself from a relationship in which she recurringly feared for her life, had no consent in the divulgence of her personal sexual history. Secondly, if Faye's decision to put her nominal friend's intimate secrets on blast and memorialize them in print is not problematic as long as Sydney and Justin are raised with an adequately liberal attitude toward sex, then why don't parents everywhere regale their children with detailed tales about how their adult sexual encounters, their indulgence in cocaine and other controlled substances, and other exploits? It'll make those parents more "real" to their kids! And, hey, I guess Brandi's efforts to put Kyle's marijuana use on shout last year in front of cameras were shrug-worthy despite what Kyle herself wanted.

[Midnight Cheese]

I will always be at a loss as to why an authentic, multidimensional portrayal of Nicole was impossible without or furthered by anecdotes about her, say, performing fellatio on a casual acquaintance while he slept. As for hoping her children aren't "judgmental," I think that formulation transposes responsibility from Faye for authoring the book to Nicole's family for their response - and I think that is appalling. For one, Nicole by definition, after struggling through a decades-long abusive marriage to muster enough agency to separate herself from a relationship in which she recurringly feared for her life, had no consent in the divulgence of her personal sexual history. Secondly, if Faye's decision to put her nominal friend's intimate secrets on blast and memorialize them in print is not problematic as long as Sydney and Justin are raised with an adequately liberal attitude toward sex, then why don't parents everywhere regale their children with detailed tales about how their adult sexual encounters, their indulgence in cocaine and other controlled substances, and other exploits? It'll make those parents more "real" to their kids! And, hey, I guess Brandi's efforts to put Kyle's marijuana use on shout last year in front of cameras were shrug-worthy despite what Kyle herself wanted.

High-fiving this, along with a thousand baby angels (dammit why can't I insert the image of Liz Lemon here??)

 

Yeah.  Jeez, Brandi should get devotional poetry written about her and shrines erected for keeping it rill, and for 'exploiting' lawyered up, panicking co-stars -- instead of being treated as a worthless pariah, not worthy dahling of breathing in LVP's silent farts, which is what happened to her.  I know people hate Brandi so much (not saying anyone active on this thread does, I honestly don't know) but she put people on shout who were **not decapitated** and therefore could **counter her tales.**  It's a distinction with rather a difference.  I'm kind of too outraged to say more - I have a young child, and my complex human life is not to be packaged for fucking money if my husband murders me in particularly lurid circumstances by any friends or 'friends.'  It seems rather little to ask.  Not that having a bunch of Dateline episodes devoted to your slaughter featuring your dear friend isn't a good thing.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Midnight Cheese

[zoeysmom]

Faye has explained it.  She said in one of the videos that she did not want to write a memorial but her interactions with both her friend and her friend's murderer.  It may not be an acceptable explanation but it  is the one she gave.

 

Since her children were raised by their mother's murderer, I am thinking there is probably very little these children find shocking.  A friend writing about mom and her exploits is probably way down the ladder on the injustices these children suffered the past 20 years.  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2694745/United-grief-Nicole-Brown-Simpsons-children-Justin-Sydney-seen-time-years-funeral-grandfather-died-month-aged-91.html  The seemed to not want to talk about their mother's murder.  The aunt involved in their lives seem to have her own personal battles with addiction and mental illness. 

 

Thankfully the children seemed to get an education (something their mother lacked) and are self-sufficient.

[poeticlicensed]

I too am puzzled as to why after everything Faye was not labelled as a pariah among the BH set. Even on WWHL, both Eileen and Michelle Lee talked about what a lovely person Faye was.  

 

As for Nicole, OJ and the spectacle that played out on TV, I worked  FT during the trail and the internet we know today didn't exist so no streaming, but I do remember watching the update shows at night. I could not believe that a murder trial took so many months. I mean seriously it was heaps and heaps of BS. Just so much wrong. I don't remember talking to anyone who thought OJ was innocent. I don't think the verdict had anything to do with Faye. Honestly, I blame the judge for allowing the trial to spin into a circus. 

 

OJ was the beginning, which then spawned Casey Anthony and George Zimmerman, The most fascinating thing about this whole case is how OJ managed to practice such cognitive dissonance on a daily basis, that he began to truly believe he didn't kill Nicole and Ron. I bet he could pass a lie detector, that's how ingrained it is in his brain. 

[zoeysmom]

Here is a funny little anecdote to the "last time I spoke pot was in front of you Kyle," statement.  Last week on Kocktails with Khloe , Brandi apparently spoked pot with Snoop Dog and claimed she hadn't smoked pot in 20 years.  So which is it Brandi, did you smoke around Kyle?  Did Kyle smoke pot with you? Or did you make the whole thing up?  Brandi has also claimed Kyle has a pill problem.  So worse than talking about it is making it up. 

 

BTW I have huge issues with the Kardashian ethic, I minute Khloe is teaching Portia how to dance at Faye's wedding the next she is featuring Kyle and Faye's arch enemy on her show.  Where is the loyalty Khloe?

 

So here is to Brandi. liar, liar pants on fire.

[zoeysmom]

Here is a letter Nicole wrote to OJ, it is heartbreaking.  http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/Simpson/brownletter.html

 

OJ of course claims he never read it.

[Umbelina]

Faye has explained it.  She said in one of the videos that she did not want to write a memorial but her interactions with both her friend and her friend's murderer.  It may not be an acceptable explanation but it  is the one she gave.

 

Since her children were raised by their mother's murderer, I am thinking there is probably very little these children find shocking.  A friend writing about mom and her exploits is probably way down the ladder on the injustices these children suffered the past 20 years.  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2694745/United-grief-Nicole-Brown-Simpsons-children-Justin-Sydney-seen-time-years-funeral-grandfather-died-month-aged-91.html  The seemed to not want to talk about their mother's murder.  The aunt involved in their lives seem to have her own personal battles with addiction and mental illness. 

 

Thankfully the children seemed to get an education (something their mother lacked) and are self-sufficient.

As did their father.

 

I'm trying to find the article I read earlier showing his real notes.  Horrible, childish spelling, no grammar at all, and disjointed.  They looked like something a slow seven year old would write.

[zoeysmom]

As did their father.

 

I'm trying to find the article I read earlier showing his real notes.  Horrible, childish spelling, no grammar at all, and disjointed.  They looked like something a slow seven year old would write.

Do you really think OJ focused on studies at USC?  Thankfully even USC didn't give him a degree.  I don't think anyone even pretended he was going to class or graduating material.  Where OJ was intelligent is he hired agents and business advisors to make up for his shortcomings.

[Umbelina]

No, and it's driving me nuts that I can't find that article.  Googling keeps bringing up the suicide note, and that was apparently corrected for him.  The other examples I saw were very obviously phonetically spelled at best. wud for would, extra letters, even the simplest of words were like a child sounding it out.

 

I'm shocked he graduated from junior high.

 

As for Faye's explanations, or saying that the kids weren't aware, or that reading about their dead mother's sex life later in a book written solely to exploit her murder?  My guess is yes, they heard it as kids, and they've damn well heard it since.  I completely disagree that they were unharmed by Faye's book.  Her explanations are simple.  GREED and FAME.  The rest, IMO, is just bullshit. 

 

OJ was everywhere, it was practically a cult, every paper, most TV shows, blaring out in a constant stream.  That is also why I believe that Kathryn didn't read the book, every single thing Faye said about her was out there.  You would have had to be a hermit living off the land to not know.  Ditto for the kids, children have big ears, and they could not have possibly been completely isolated from it.  That aunt saying they never talked about it.  I hope some responsible adult DID talk to them, kids tend to make everything their own fault, and they needed adults in their lives who DID talk, and help them through it.

[ElDosEquis]

Years later the trial still gets people into passionate discussions?

 

There were two angles of the trial that really got me to watch were the people who spoke about race - how it supposedly divided the people - and the fixation on the people around the story.

I thought the people that were involved with the trial ran the spectrum from the credible to the incredible. Some folks deserved to be disliked more than others?

Sometimes people forgot that it was a trial about two people getting killed, not about the people who lived around it?

[Midnight Cheese]

Here is a letter Nicole wrote to OJ, it is heartbreaking.  http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/Simpson/brownletter.html

 

OJ of course claims he never read it.

Nicole deserved better than OJ (<---understatement of all time) and better than Faye, too.   Read that over and someone tell me again how it was ok for Faye to insist in writing over Allen's testified contrary statement that Nicole was a sexually voracious Jezebel?  How is THAT giving a more nuanced view of Nicole than this here letter, acknowledging things from the petty to the very, very serious? 

 

There is no truer sign of an asshole than a man who thinks a pregnant woman should only gain exactly the weight of the baby.  I know a man like that - thankfully not my husband.  Two men actually.  The first was an inveterate cheater, and the second, routinely unfaithful and hit his wife at least twice.  It's a through line.  If you're too controlling, mean-spirited and unintelligent to understand that in human will versus biology, biology ALWAYS wins, you are not dating/mating/marriage material. 

[ElDosEquis]

No, and it's driving me nuts that I can't find that article.  Googling keeps bringing up the suicide note, and that was apparently corrected for him.  The other examples I saw were very obviously phonetically spelled at best. wud for would, extra letters, even the simplest of words were like a child sounding it out.

 

I'm shocked he graduated from junior high.

 

 

I remember seeing the original note and thinking to myself, "this guy went to college?"

 

I was never a huge OJ fan, but I don't know why finding out he was illiterate was disappointing?

[zoeysmom]

No, and it's driving me nuts that I can't find that article.  Googling keeps bringing up the suicide note, and that was apparently corrected for him.  The other examples I saw were very obviously phonetically spelled at best. wud for would, extra letters, even the simplest of words were like a child sounding it out.

 

I'm shocked he graduated from junior high.

 

As for Faye's explanations, or saying that the kids weren't aware, or that reading about their dead mother's sex life later in a book written solely to exploit her murder?  My guess is yes, they heard it as kids, and they've damn well heard it since.  I completely disagree that they were unharmed by Faye's book.  Her explanations are simple.  GREED and FAME.  The rest, IMO, is just bullshit. 

 

OJ was everywhere, it was practically a cult, every paper, most TV shows, blaring out in a constant stream.  That is also why I believe that Kathryn didn't read the book, every single thing Faye said about her was out there.  You would have had to be a hermit living off the land to not know.  Ditto for the kids, children have big ears, and they could not have possibly been completely isolated from it.  That aunt saying they never talked about it.  I hope some responsible adult DID talk to them, kids tend to make everything their own fault, and they needed adults in their lives who DID talk, and help them through it.

Umbelina, the kids have said they did not want to talk about the murder.  Should our musing be substituted for the people who raised them, who were around them everyday? Do you think OJ exposed his kids to the numerous books and articles?  We are talking about Faye because she is part of a television show.  With all the volumes of OJ books out there-what would make them want to read her book?  You have said you don't believe people because of this or that-what makes their aunt unbelievable?  These kids have isolated themselves and gone on about their lives.  (Good luck with that with the upcoming mini-series.)  Not everybody wants to hear negative things about their parents-especially deceased ones.  I think it was entirely possible the children were shielded and weren't involved in the hoopla surrounding the trial.  I would say the same for Michael Jackson's kids.  They are now well into their twenties if they want to read about their mom, they can. If they don't they don't have to. 

Nicole deserved better than OJ (<---understatement of all time) and better than Faye, too.   Read that over and someone tell me again how it was ok for Faye to insist in writing over Allen's testified contrary statement that Nicole was a sexually voracious Jezebel?  How is THAT giving a more nuanced view of Nicole than this here letter, acknowledging things from the petty to the very, very serious? 

 

There is no truer sign of an asshole than a man who thinks a pregnant woman should only gain exactly the weight of the baby.  I know a man like that - thankfully not my husband.  Two men actually.  The first was an inveterate cheater, and the second, routinely unfaithful and hit his wife at least twice.  It's a through line.  If you're too controlling, mean-spirited and unintelligent to understand that in human will versus biology, biology ALWAYS wins, you are not dating/mating/marriage material. 

Allen's testimony came after Faye's book.

 

I posted the letter but what is in there is her comment about expletive everybody, including people he knows, to hurt him.  So I am thinking she may have said something similar to Faye.  I have no idea who she was before she met OJ but he certainly did nothing to help her self-esteem.

[chlban]

It was endless, kind of like a very very long reality TV show. Cameras were in the courtroom the whole time, you could see everything except the jury. I'm sure there are some You Tubes up, probably bad quality. There are several books out there written by some of the principals in the case, and by other lawyers or crime reporters examining it. I hope FX does a good job on the mini-series, I really do. I don't think I can watch it. I was there the first time, and it was absolutely horrible.

Faye WAS talked about on the record. Ito may have told the jury to disregard some of it, but you really can't unring a bell. As noted above, at least some jury members had read Faye's book.

It was so much crap during that trial. Do I think Faye got OJ off? NO. Does that make her any more forgivable or likable for capitalizing on the horrific murder of Nicole? HELL NO. She was nobody, but became famous, and made money because her friend was murdered. Nicole was barely cold when she began writing that book.

The people in LA didn't trust the police or DA office. Remember, this wasn't too long after Rodney King. This trial was about race and celebrity through and through. It was dirty, it had a judge who just seemed to adore his new celebrity. The slow car chase, OJ's fame, the fun sex stuff, the white wife black husband, all of it happening in Hollywood, it was a circus. Mark Furman's racism. Ugh. Did the prosecutors rush that trial? Probably. With more time, they might have had their ducks in a row. The jury did hate Marcia, many, many reporters commented on it, and they could see the jury, which the television cameras could not. The whole "Darden is an Uncle Tom" stuff broke my heart, and I think it did contribute to his idiotic move of letting OJ pretend the shrunken, wet then dried gloves over fucking surgical gloves did not fit. I watched that live, and I couldn't believe it.

I ended up reading almost all the books. Only because about 3 years later they started showing up in the dollar store. I debated, but ended up buying them and reading them a few years later. I loved reading Dominick Dunne's "letters from LA" about the case as well.

One thing I will always wonder about. I was seeing a detective who occasionally worked with the LA detectives, even though he was now in another city. The day after the murder he talked to some of the detectives and I don't remember much of what he told me, but one thing has always stuck with me, and it was never admitted as evidence. He told me they found blood residue in the OJ's sink drain (it had been taken apart.) Maybe it was too degraded, maybe the cops thought they already had plenty to convict on, who knows?

"Blame the victim" was indeed part of the trial. Was it a deciding factor? I don't think so, but I do believe it played a small role.

That defense team basically wiped the floor with the prosecution, but jury selection played a huge part. Ito played a huge part. Race played the biggest part. Complete distrust of the LA police about race played an even bigger part. I remember hearing many comments about OJ getting off being fair, because of all the black men who were wrongly treated, beaten, or convicted before him. It was such a huge divide when that verdict came in, and all through the trial. One group of people thrilled and celebrating, the other side shocked and heart broken.

I said earlier that OJ was the beginning of reality TV, and he was. People watched that trial every day, instead of the soaps. They watched specials at night instead of scripted drama. Someone in TV land realized what they were seeing, that they didn't need to pay writers, or stars, that they could make a fortune with "reality." It hasn't been the same on TV since.

Your description is spot on. However, I honestly don't believe any amount of preparation would have mattered. Nor would a more likable prosecuter. Not even a "real" judge instead of that clown Ito. That case was lost the minute the change of venue was granted ensuring a predominately African American jury. It was jury nulification. Just like all those cases in the south in the 60's when all white jurors refused to convict Klan members. That is the sad truth,IMO. Edited January 28, 2016 by chlban

[Umbelina]

I think someone needed to talk to the kids, and no, I absolutely don't believe that they were so sheltered that they heard nothing of the trial.  They would have to be in a bubble, sound-proofed, never glance at a newspaper, or see magazines, and certainly NEVER watch TV at all, or go to the store.  In addition, there were cameras everywhere, it's very hard for me to believe they didn't have questions or worries.

 

Kids blame themselves when they are that young.  Nicole's kids were 5 and 8.  When my friend died, her kids were 3 and 7.  The 7 year old didn't want to talk either, which is why you LISTEN, which is why she went to a grief group that focused on fun art projects to express feelings with other kids who had experienced death of a parent, sibling, grandparent, etc. it helped, especially having trained child psychologists on hand posing as art instructors, not pretending they weren't counselors, just giving the kids an out to talk. 

 

I remember one project was "bring a box that opens."  They did two collages, one outside that everyone could see, representing what the world saw of them.  INSIDE it was how they really felt, and they didn't have to show it to anyone, not even the counselors, it could only be seen by someone the child chose to show.  The outside of her box was all light and smiles and flowers and happy stuff.  She let me (and only me, later her aunts and eventually her dad) see the inside.  It was dark with flames and screaming and a baby floating on a cloud looking lost (which is how we found out she was also worried about the fetus.)  That class was a Godsend to those kids.

 

The 7 year old "didn't want to talk" either, and no one forced her.  I spent a ton of time with her and just waited for her to open up, it began when she came with me to the store to pick out cards for her mom's parents, sister, and her dad.  She began opening up, and soon the floodgates opened, but yes, in the beginning, just with me.  She felt she wasn't a good enough daughter, or that when she wouldn't eat her dinner last week it had pushed her mom over the edge, all kinds of stuff.  She was so worried about the baby, would it go to heaven (her mom was pregnant) heck, ALL kinds of things were worrying her.  She SAID "I don't want to talk about it."  Her actions, with patience, showed the exact opposite of that.  As it happens, she also called me last week and said it was time for her to know more, saying that she appreciated all of the fun or interesting stories I'd shared with her and her brother, but was ready to go deeper now.  My response was, "Of course, darling, any time."

Edited January 28, 2016 by Umbelina

[zoeysmom]

Your description is spot on. However, I honestly don't believe any amount of preparation would have mattered. Nor would a more likable prosecuter. Not even a "real" judge instead of that clown Ito. That case was lost the minute the change of venue was granted ensuring a predominately African American jury. It was jury nulification. Just like all those cases in the south in the 60's when all white jurors refused to convict Klan members. That is the sad truth,IMO.

There was no change of venue.  The crime occurred in LA County and was tried in LA County Superior Court.  There was/is a Santa Monica branch of LA County Superior Court but it was damaged due to the earthquake.  A change of venue would mean removing it to another county.  It is not unusual for a trial, with a lot of potential jurors to be tried at the main venue.  Many of the satellite courts do not have the facilities to house such a trial. 

[Midnight Cheese]

Umbelina, the kids have said they did not want to talk about the murder.  Should our musing be substituted for the people who raised them, who were around them everyday? Do you think OJ exposed his kids to the numerous books and articles?  We are talking about Faye because she is part of a television show.  With all the volumes of OJ books out there-what would make them want to read her book?  You have said you don't believe people because of this or that-what makes their aunt unbelievable?  These kids have isolated themselves and gone on about their lives.  (Good luck with that with the upcoming mini-series.)  Not everybody wants to hear negative things about their parents-especially deceased ones.  I think it was entirely possible the children were shielded and weren't involved in the hoopla surrounding the trial.  I would say the same for Michael Jackson's kids.  They are now well into their twenties if they want to read about their mom, they can. If they don't they don't have to. 

Allen's testimony came after Faye's book.

 

I posted the letter but what is in there is her comment about expletive everybody, including people he knows, to hurt him.  So I am thinking she may have said something similar to Faye.  I have no idea who she was before she met OJ but he certainly did nothing to help her self-esteem.

She didn't write that she fucked anyone to hurt him.   She wrote that she feared the consequences of doing so, but that she wished she could make him hurt the way he hurt her with his infidelity.  It doesn't square what Faye wrote. 

 

Faye wrote two books.  I meant to post that it seemed at least the second book came out after the letter.  It's a decent guess.

 

The loyalty thing - seriously, Khloe Kardashian could be more loyal to Kyle by not interviewing Brandi but Faye isn't to be thought of as a disloyal cat-faced fucking monster by writing about Nicole and Marcus, Nicole and fellatio, Nicole and her PRIVATE sex life after OJ hacks Nicole to death, and hey it doesn't matter any way because we think Nicole's kids ain't too fucked up?  Maddon!

 

Umbelina, you are breaking my heart.  I'm so very sorry for your friend and her husband and those kids most of all.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Midnight Cheese

[Umbelina]

Thanks Midnight Cheese.  The kids are doing great, and I give their dad a lot of credit for that, he changed for the better, and even though we detested each other previously, we both made ourselves bond for the kids.  He was well aware that of all the aunties and others, his daughter felt safest with me, and he respected her feelings enough that he even let her come and stay with me on the coast for 3 weeks, then brought his son and the 4 of us bonded even more during the following week.

 

Does it shade my feelings about Nicole's kids?  Of course it does.  What kids say, and what they need, and what they HEAR, and how they interpret all of that (blaming themselves, etc.) is something I was dealing with right after the verdict.  The emotions of that time about Nicole are kind of tied into that period of my life, and undoubtedly part of the reason I detest the Morally Corrupt Faye Resnick.  I just can't imagine doing that to a friend, ever.

 

I get that other people may see her differently, and I'm not trying to change any minds here, the more opinions, the better, that's why we are all here.  As for me though?  She is garbage, and always will be.  I didn't see her lack of response to Kathryn as composed, I think she was using booze to calm down, the way she was gulping it made that obvious.  I don't see her as "sober" either, and she is still using, even if she changed her drug of choice.  She's just so calculated to me.  Am I biased against her?  Absolutely.  I totally cop to that.

[Vicky8675309]

People do much worse things than profit from death yet they aren't hated like Faye is hated. I wonder if she is more hated than OJ. She profited from her friends death. Not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things and I don't think she intentionally harmed anyone. I find Kim's (or Bella's) drunk driving much more harmful even if they haven't harmed anyone (yet)! Once someone dies, regardless of how tragic it is, I don't think everything needs to be white washed (make that person a saint). I'm not blaming the victim but trying to humanize the victim. I don't care if OJ had walked in on her having an orgy on their wedding night or raping his mother or any other "blame the victim" behavior...NONE of it would have justified her murder.

[Umbelina]

Oh, believe me, my hate for Faye pales in comparison to how much I detest that pig OJ.  Faye hate is on a level with a dim key-chain flashlight.  OJ hate is like staring directly into the sun.

 

It's not just the book, as I said before, I couldn't stand Faye from the moment she stepped on this show, before I even remembered her from the OJ circus.

[Vicky8675309]

how do you feel about the jurors? I feel negatively about them since I get the impression they would have found OJ non-guilty even if there was a videotape showing him murdering Nicole.

[GreatKazu]

I recall the suicide letter. Here is an analysis of what was in that letter. It mentions how O.J. would misspell words, but he would then spell them correctly in another sentence. He also misspelled Nicole's name at one point: http://www.andrewghodges.com/forensic-thoughtprints/o-j-simpson-decoding-the-suicide-note

[Umbelina]

I feel a bit differently now than I did.  Being a juror is tough.  I've been on juries, been the foreperson twice.  I believe jurors really do try to be just, to bring in the correct decision.  Although, hell, we deliberated longer on a civil case than they did on a capital crime, so maybe not.  Being a black juror on this trial?  Probably tougher in some ways. 

 

Sigh, I don't think there was ever a chance for conviction in hindsight.  At the time, I absolutely could not believe there was even the slightest chance of acquittal.  It was such a complete shock.  Race was on trial, not OJ.  The defense did a hell of a job, and Mark Fuhrman being anywhere for even the few minutes he was, and then be caught in a lie on the stand over the n-word, gave the jury a chance to completely disregard anything else he said.  I was sick with the whole OBVIOUSLY easy to pull off "if the glove don't fit" bullshit.  Sickened by the circus of it all.  I get why it happened, it was payback for all of the decades of injustice for black men.  It was the wrong hill to die on, but that's what happened.

 

During the televised stuff, we never saw the jury, I've read a couple of interviews since, but maybe that's why I don't have any particular feelings for them now, we really never got to know them at all.  At the time, my feelings were "stupid" and "prejudiced." 

 

how do you feel about the jurors? I feel negatively about them since I get the impression they would have found OJ non-guilty even if there was a videotape showing him murdering Nicole.

Anyway, trying to keep this to what's shown on RHBH or discussed there.

 

ETA, I guess my opinion on the jury and the judge is very much like Christopher Darden's.  https://www.nytimes.com/books/97/03/02/bsp/contempt.html http://www.newsweek.com/darden-takes-gloves-175816

Edited January 28, 2016 by Umbelina

[zoeysmom]

how do you feel about the jurors? I feel negatively about them since I get the impression they would have found OJ non-guilty even if there was a videotape showing him murdering Nicole.

I think the jurors questioned the police department and some of their tactics. Like any other witnesses, their testimony can be weighed.   Fuhrman did not help the prosecution.  The glove demonstration did not help.  The experts seemed to cancel each other out. The infancy of DNA, the boring way it was presented and the probability analysis and having the prosecution witness correct his numbers the next day.  I can't speak to a videotape but I don't think the juror was any less or more intelligent then your average person.  I might go so far as to say on the average they were more intelligent than Yolanda Foster ;).

[breezy424]

I read all the hate directed at Faye and I still don't get it. At worst, she exploited a dead friend for financial gain. That is not Enron level shit. She didn't ruin anyones lives. OJ ruined his kids lives and OJ murdered (imo) his wife. Faye may have been greedy (or trying to make $ to support herself or trying to make her dead friend relatable or get her real story across) but I just can't seem to find the dislike for her that I am reading about. I can't stand OJ but I don't feel that negative about Faye. I also think, based on comments here, that Nicole sounds like a normal human in that she was not a saint (thank you Faye for making her human [imo]) and had flaws like we all do. Nothing she could have done to justify her murder unless it was in self-defense which it obviously was not. Nothing, except self-defense, would justify her death.

 

I know this opinion will upset people since I have read the rage about Faye. However, it seems like the more outrage I read the more I feel sorry for her. I wonder how Nicole would have felt about it all. Personally if I was Nicole and any good could come of my death then great. I guess the touchy part would be the kids but they were too young then to read Faye's book. Later in life, I would have hoped they were raised to be open minded and nonjudgmental...but yeah, I can see that being the tricky part. Anyway, Faye spoke about her dead best friend and cashed in on it. Questionable, sure but I just don't feel enraged about the "exploitation".

 

just my opinion and I realize it goes against the grain

Thank you and I'm right there with you.

[breezy424]

Here is a letter Nicole wrote to OJ, it is heartbreaking.  http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/Simpson/brownletter.html

 

OJ of course claims he never read it.

It is heartbreaking.  It's so sad.  It's what domestic abuse is all about.... 

[zoeysmom]

Since this about all the OJ characters and who profited my mind always goes to Mark Fuhrman.  In all the criminal cases in the world I would think it is probably safe to say very few have one of the lead detectives pleading the fifth.  And not in a cute WWHL kind of way.  On cross examination the police detective plead the fifth.  The impeaching evidence came from a screenwriter-so Mark Fuhrman was no stranger to the lure of Hollywood money.  Not only had he made racists comments, he denied making racists comments and then ultimately plead the fifth and then after the acquittal, plead nolo contendre to felony perjury.  He also went onto write a book and several followed and had a radio show until recently.  Talk about someone profiting from bad deeds.  Here is the Wiki version of the tapes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuhrman_tapes

[poeticlicensed]

NM

Edited January 28, 2016 by poeticlicensed

[Lisin]

OK gang, 1) remember to agree to disagree, move on and not attack each other. 2) If you think someone is attacking you report don't engage. 3) Lets try to keep this to the discussion of the Players in the OJ stuff with relation to the Housewives show. 

 

Meaning, there's a whole forum for the new OJ show to discuss the trial and all that, and the jurors etc. really have nothing to do with the housewives. I understand it's an interesting topic, and we're being really lenient with it, but ultimately if your post has nothing to do with the housewives/friends of at all it probably doesn't belong in this forum. Thanks. 

[ElDosEquis]

Since this about all the OJ characters and who profited my mind always goes to Mark Fuhrman.  In all the criminal cases in the world I would think it is probably safe to say very few have one of the lead detectives pleading the fifth.  And not in a cute WWHL kind of way.  On cross examination the police detective plead the fifth.  The impeaching evidence came from a screenwriter-so Mark Fuhrman was no stranger to the lure of Hollywood money.  Not only had he made racists comments, he denied making racists comments and then ultimately plead the fifth and then after the acquittal, plead nolo contendre to felony perjury.  He also went onto write a book and several followed and had a radio show until recently.  Talk about someone profiting from bad deeds.  Here is the Wiki version of the tapes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuhrman_tapes

Fuhrman exposed more of the darkness that the LAPD suffered during the 90's...

 

His 'antics' further blackened the eye of a department that was reeling from the Rodney King arrest, trial and riots.

 

The department was trying rebound from the stupidity and lies that were exposed on the RK tape and brought to light during the trial.

 

The NEXT hurdle came when the patrol officers testified that they had answered a few DV calls to the Rockingham address and either met OJ and he was able to "explain" why the 911 calls were made or he split before the patrol showed up.

The blood evidence going home with the detectives and logged the next day ruined any 'chain of evidence' procedure - the last nail in the coffin was the "N" word tapes that Fuhrman made were introduced at the proceedings?

 

Those were just the 'problems' the LAPD brought to the table. Then you have the lawyers, the court/judge, the media and everyone else putting their two cents in?

[zoeysmom]

I am still trying to figure out how Kathryn, who didn't bother to read Faye's book, thinks it was Faye fault her name came up.  OJ mentioned her by name  in his "suicide note". The message was kind of cryptic.   Maybe she should blame her then husband who continued his friendship with OJ after his arrest.  The alleged affair between Marcus and Nicole may not have been in print until Faye wrote her book but there was clearly some talk out there.  Seems a little unfair to blame Faye.  Maybe fingers should have been pointed OJ and Marcus' way.

[lunastartron]

I don't see what's so unfair about blaming Faye. There's a significant difference between gossip within a specific social milieu and allegations trumpeted in a nationally best-selling book authored by a nominal "insider" that you've never met. So OJ mentioned Kathryn in his suicide note by exhorting Marcus to cherish his wife and marriage. There's a whole lot of daylight between that innocuous allusion and Faye's commentary on the complexities of the relationship between Marcus and a woman to whom she was a stranger. I don't understand what's confusing about Kathryn's grievance - she specified that she had a problem with Faye asserting as fact that Kathryn didn't care about Marcus's side pieces as long as she wasn't embarrassed publicly. How do those ostensible details about Kathryn and Marcus help the reader of A Private Diary establish Nicole as a "real," flawed human?

[Vicky8675309]

I don't see what's so unfair about blaming Faye. There's a significant difference between gossip within a specific social milieu and allegations trumpeted in a nationally best-selling book authored by a nominal "insider" that you've never met. So OJ mentioned Kathryn in his suicide note by exhorting Marcus to cherish his wife and marriage. There's a whole lot of daylight between that innocuous allusion and Faye's commentary on the complexities of the relationship between Marcus and a woman to whom she was a stranger. I don't understand what's confusing about Kathryn's grievance - she specified that she had a problem with Faye asserting as fact that Kathryn didn't care about Marcus's side pieces as long as she wasn't embarrassed publicly. How do those ostensible details about Kathryn and Marcus help the reader of A Private Diary establish Nicole as a "real," flawed human?

 

sounds like she slept with a married man but it wasn't that bad since he was almost in an open marriage...just fills in details, adds more to the story. Anyway, I don't think we will agree on it but that's ok (respectfully agree to disagree).

 

I do agree that Kathryn has a right to be upset and that it may benefit the two of them (Faye & Kathryn) to talk one on one without the cameras but only if they really want to (understandable if they don't). Kathryn has a right to be angry regardless of if what Faye said was the truth or hearsay or lies. I just don't feels the same about her as what I perceive to be the public hate (I can understand Kathryn hating Faye).

 

Actually I think the issue is just with me...I have issues with hate...even the word hate. I can dislike, even hate, somethings (takes a lot for it to reach hate and even then I try to understand it and sometimes that helps me process it**) that people do or say but it takes a lot for me to hate an entire person. What I know of OJ, I hate. Not just him murdering Nicole but all of him that I have seen and heard (wive abusing thug stalker murderer). A woman saying something that upsets another woman and exploits a dead friend, bad but not worthy of the prolonged hate IMO (just my opinion and since we all have different ways of judging and interpreting people and their actions~I shouldn't question that hate just because I feel differently....did I question the hate? I probably did but I can't scroll back from this message page--my bad for questioning it or sorry if I sound judgmental--I don't mean to be judgy....ack, I rambling...I will stop)

 

**I'm sure most people do that and I not wording this right since it sounds all holier than tho (lol, that is not me). Also if I am all emotional I can't do that until I calm down. I guess I am not emotionally vested in Kathryn. I am rambling...sorry. Maybe I have Lyme disease (too soon? lol)

Edited January 28, 2016 by Vicky8675309

[RedheadZombie]

Honest question (to anyone) - Why the frequent descriptions of Nicole's murder as decapitation?  I just read it described as "Nicole's beheading" in another thread.  I saw the crime scene photos many moons ago.  I recently revisited the crime scene photos to figure out why I've long thought Nicole was wearing a black negligee (as I was being called a victim blamer), and stumbled upon a graphic photo of Nicole's neck (I had previously seen the pic with the neck wound blacked out).  It was an absolutely horrific and violent injury, she was viciously murdered, but why the unneeded melodrama of calling her decapitated or beheaded?  I realize it was a near decapitation, and it may seem an insignificant difference to some, but it seems added for affect.

[Vicky8675309]

maybe the degree of the viciousness/violence?  More sensationalized

[LIMOM]

Since this about all the OJ characters and who profited my mind always goes to Mark Fuhrman.  In all the criminal cases in the world I would think it is probably safe to say very few have one of the lead detectives pleading the fifth.  And not in a cute WWHL kind of way.  On cross examination the police detective plead the fifth.  The impeaching evidence came from a screenwriter-so Mark Fuhrman was no stranger to the lure of Hollywood money.  Not only had he made racists comments, he denied making racists comments and then ultimately plead the fifth and then after the acquittal, plead nolo contendre to felony perjury.  He also went onto write a book and several followed and had a radio show until recently.  Talk about someone profiting from bad deeds.  Here is the Wiki version of the tapes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuhrman_tapes

One villain at a time.,please.

There was really no hero in that sordid affair.

What is puzzling to me is why Faye does not take the opportunity to explain her past actions?

Of course, she does not owe anything to anyone but perhaps it would be beneficial to the rehabilitation of her reputation?

Right now, she comes across as a slithering viper, IMO.

It does not have to be that way.

[LIMOM]

sounds like she slept with a married man but it wasn't that bad since he was almost in an open marriage...just fills in details, adds more to the story. Anyway, I don't think we will agree on it but that's ok (respectfully agree to disagree).

 

I do agree that Kathryn has a right to be upset and that it may benefit the two of them (Faye & Kathryn) to talk one on one without the cameras but only if they really want to (understandable if they don't). Kathryn has a right to be angry regardless of if what Faye said was the truth or hearsay or lies. I just don't feels the same about her as what I perceive to be the public hate (I can understand Kathryn hating Faye).

 

Actually I think the issue is just with me...I have issues with hate...even the word hate. I can dislike, even hate, somethings (takes a lot for it to reach hate and even then I try to understand it and sometimes that helps me process it**) that people do or say but it takes a lot for me to hate an entire person. What I know of OJ, I hate. Not just him murdering Nicole but all of him that I have seen and heard (wive abusing thug stalker murderer). A woman saying something that upsets another woman and exploits a dead friend, bad but not worthy of the prolonged hate IMO (just my opinion and since we all have different ways of judging and interpreting people and their actions~I shouldn't question that hate just because I feel differently....did I question the hate? I probably did but I can't scroll back from this message page--my bad for questioning it or sorry if I sound judgmental--I don't mean to be judgy....ack, I rambling...I will stop)

 

**I'm sure most people do that and I not wording this right since it sounds all holier than tho (lol, that is not me). Also if I am all emotional I can't do that until I calm down. I guess I am not emotionally vested in Kathryn. I am rambling...sorry. Maybe I have Lyme disease (too soon? lol)

As you have a problem with the word hate, I will admit to having a strong aversion to betrayal.

IMO, what Faye did, is betraying her friend.

[Umbelina]

Hate and Love are commonly used on message boards.  Does anyone here truly mean it when they say they LOVE Erika?  No.  It's shorthand.

 

Again, we only have Faye's word about Nicole and Marcus.  Her word is worth nothing to me.  Zip.  YMMV

[zoeysmom]

I thought it might be a good idea to work off the text from Faye's first book and what was written, this is from the producer's blog on Bravo.  Quotes are from Faye's first book:  Faye has discussed Nicole telling OJ about her fooling around with Marcus.

 

".....At first we were worried that OJ might take revenge on Marcus by telling his then fiancée, about the affair with Nicole.  That would have been a disaster because Kathryn was a sweet woman who was well aware of Marcus' womanizing and might have felt she had to call off the wedding."

 

The other passage mentioning Kathryn: Kris is Kris Jenner.

 

"Kris, I don't know what to think about this, I know Marcus Allen has been trying to get my phone number, and Nicole wants me to go to the Monkey Bar with him.  I like Marcus but not in that way.  On the other hand, I'd like to keep him as a friend, because he is a friend of Nicole's.  What do you think?  Kris said, "Whatever you do, don't go out with Marcus Allen.  He's the biggest womanizer in the world and don't forget he is engaged to Kathryn.  She turns a blind eye to his fooling around but hurts when he does it publicly."

 

(Emphasis added)

 

So in all fairness to the parties involved-Faye called the then fiancée of Marcus', Kathryn sweet.  She repeated a conversation she had with Kris Jenner, before Marcus and Kathryn married and it was Kris Jenner who said she turned a blind eye not Faye.  Faye repeated it.  To bring back about 25 years, Kathryn said Faye said her marriage was "tongue in cheek".  Tongue and cheek and blind eye have very different meanings.  So perhaps Kathryn should have read the book.  Also she did not attack Kathryn's marriage.  Huge differences.

 

According to Bravo there is no mention of Kathryn in Faye's second book.  Only Marcus.  

[lunastartron]

Eh - Faye asserted that Kathryn was aware of Marcus's womanizing and was comfortable enough with it that calling off the wedding would have been a perfunctory gesture. This formulation suggests that Kathryn would have indeed been accepting of infidelity post-marriage ceremony. And this commentary applies to the state of Eickstaedt and Allen one or two months prior to said ceremony. That's not a "huge difference" to me but I guess mileage obviously varies. In any case, whether or not Faye is directly sourcing her intel to Kris in quotation marks or presenting it as her own description, I don't see what's mysterious about someone bristling at a stranger including second-hand rumor-mill interpretations about their approach to their personal romantic relationships. It's a pretty textbook example of another "rule every woman (should) know": keep my name out of your mouth, especially if you don't know me like that.

[Umbelina]

Bravo only did a few excerpts.  Someone in the show thread said there was much more, and they had read the book.  I haven't. 

 

Kathryn has every right to think Faye is scum.  Hell, many of us do, with no personal connection.

[zoeysmom]

I don't see what's so unfair about blaming Faye. There's a significant difference between gossip within a specific social milieu and allegations trumpeted in a nationally best-selling book authored by a nominal "insider" that you've never met. So OJ mentioned Kathryn in his suicide note by exhorting Marcus to cherish his wife and marriage. There's a whole lot of daylight between that innocuous allusion and Faye's commentary on the complexities of the relationship between Marcus and a woman to whom she was a stranger. I don't understand what's confusing about Kathryn's grievance - she specified that she had a problem with Faye asserting as fact that Kathryn didn't care about Marcus's side pieces as long as she wasn't embarrassed publicly. How do those ostensible details about Kathryn and Marcus help the reader of A Private Diary establish Nicole as a "real," flawed human?

I think Faye did a pretty good job of describing it in her book.  At the time of Faye's book's release, Faye had spoken with Marcia Clark and it may have been very well established that OJ's rage  may have been over the alleged continuation of the affair.  Unless there is something concrete but for Faye's book, no one outside the inner circle would have laid claim to the allegations it is pretty unfair to Faye.  If the prosecution had planned on using it as some sort of surprise, which we be doubtful due to discovery rules and the fact the prosecution is required to turn over all witness statements, then maybe Faye would have contributed to the lack of surprise.

 

From the conversation she had with Kris Jenner it seems she had no interest in Marcus romantically, something that has not been set forth before.  I thought the stranger thing was Nicole wanting her friend to meet up with an engaged man.

 

I am curious if after having this brought out in the public eye again if perhaps Kathryn is now angry with Kris Jenner?  She seemed to be the one with the big statement.  Or maybe she has put her dagger away.

Bravo only did a few excerpts.  Someone in the show thread said there was much more, and they had read the book.  I haven't. 

 

Kathryn has every right to think Faye is scum.  Hell, many of us do, with no personal connection.

The Bravo producer stated this is what was said.  Perhaps additional comments should be quoted instead of referenced off the cuff. 

 

According to Kyle, Kathryn and Faye are okay now and she was surprised Kathryn did not mention it in her blog.  So maybe there was a sitdown or Kathryn finally read the book.

[Umbelina]

I hope they do!