S02.E10: Potential Energy

[GHScorpiosRule]

I think eventually Wally will warm up to the Wests - but the thing is - this isn't JL and JLU from the animated series Wally West anyway. This is more of a new 52 Wally and he's just a bit different. Also - the writers made this Wally a crack baby (still upset by that) and gave him a really jacked up backstory with a lot of angst and pain in it.

When Lois Lane showed up on Smallville, she was nothing like the Lois we remember. Chloe was actually more like a young Lois then. Fans gave her a chance to grow into it and have her own origin story. I hope we do the same with Wally.

 

 

I hate and Loathe The New 52! In my mind, it does NOT exist, because of what they've done to my favorite characters! 

 

As for Smallville's Lois? I HATED her from Day One. She grated, and was so NOT Lois; I never warmed up to her.  And what that show did in the last two seasons? They did a lightswitch, to match up with the comics, so that all of a sudden, Durance's Lois was acting how Lois should have been from day one. Sorry, not buying it. There are so many more things that was wrong with that character, but this isn't the thread for it. Jes check out the Smallville thread and you can read my many numerous posts about my hate and loathing for both Lana and Lois.

 

And Joe may have come on too strong, but Wally was acting as if it was Joe who went searching for Wally after all these years, when it's the reverse.  So, I can't agree that he has a right to be angry and passive aggressive with Joe because Joe wasn't psychic enough to go looking for him, because, as others have also stated, he didn't even know that Francine was pregnant or that he had a son. I could accept his anger if it had been Joe looking and expecting Wally to accept him and Iris. But that's not how it happened.

 

It's possible the Wally I know may show up, but I'm not holding my breath.  

 

It's how I feel. I'm not trying to convince anyone to agree with me. Tomato, tomahto and all that.

[KirkB]

You're not going to get the Wally West from the comics, any more than you are the Oliver Queen or the Black Canary from the comics. Arrow and Flash are doing an interpretation not a recreation. 

Edited January 21, 2016 by KirkB

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Turtle And The Hare
Barry's speed is pitted against a slow and steady foe.

[Ottis]

I'm not digging this show as much as I used to. The Joe family drama, the relationship drama (Barry and Iris, Barry and Patty, old Flash and science lady, Ciscoe and flying bird lady, etc.) ... not very interesting. Barry learning more about his abilities, the rotating bad guys, Zoom, all more interesting. One of the things that brings it home for me with superhero shows is how the superhero chooses to fit into society, and handles his/her limitations, and how that interaction can make them stronger or weaker. In Flash, that takes a backseat to the personal drama. It's not very involving. The one exception is Cisco and the new Dr. Wells, but that's based on abilities and philosophies, not their relationship.

 

So did Barry running enough to overcome Turtle mean Barry has increased his speed?

 

Also, we seem to be stockpiling Flash versions on our Earth. 

[miracole]

Well this episode happened...I'd like to say it had the "potential" to be good but that would be a lie. 

 

I hated Patty talking about what great self esteem she has when she spends an entire episode whining about "Barry likes me right" I mean he does like me right? You think he likes me right?" But this is what she's done since she's showed up so nothing new on that front. What was new was the way they had her break down into a pile of goo over her encounter with the Turtle when this has been the girl they've shown multiple times be the shoot first, figure out answers over their dead body later type.

 

Barry is a infant he doesn't deserve a girlfriend.

 

I didn't like that they had very little Wally and Iris interaction. They were the two wronged parties. Joe should have to take a number when it comes to getting to know Wally.

 

Iris was there just to be a cheerleader and if you blinked you missed her once again.

 

As for Caitlin I just can't even, she really made a man dying out to be all about her. Caitlin and Jay have horrible chemistry but I don't blame Teddy Sears, he was half of one of my favorite ships that never sailed on Raising the Bar. He and Gloria Ruben had sizzling chemistry. 

Edited January 21, 2016 by miracole

[phoenics]

I'm not digging this show as much as I used to. The Joe family drama, the relationship drama (Barry and Iris, Barry and Patty, old Flash and science lady, Ciscoe and flying bird lady, etc.) ... not very interesting. Barry learning more about his abilities, the rotating bad guys, Zoom, all more interesting. One of the things that brings it home for me with superhero shows is how the superhero chooses to fit into society, and handles his/her limitations, and how that interaction can make them stronger or weaker. In Flash, that takes a backseat to the personal drama. It's not very involving. The one exception is Cisco and the new Dr. Wells, but that's based on abilities and philosophies, not their relationship.

 

So did Barry running enough to overcome Turtle mean Barry has increased his speed?

 

Also, we seem to be stockpiling Flash versions on our Earth.

Aside from the Barry/Iris comment (because they have had zero drama this season as they've barely interacted), I agree with this. I was rewatching a previous episode from Season 1 and I was struck at how much I missed the whole "Barry discovering new powers" thing, or "Barry realizes he has a limitation and has to figure out how to move forward"... This season Barry has been a brooding, self absorbed and depressed mess and less compelling because of that, imo. I want happy Barry back.

I was watching The Flash Is Born and Power Outage, as well as Out of Time the other day, and even though those had heavy relational aspects, it didn't take away from the "superhero discovering/using his powers, finding limitations, etc.." aspect. In fact, in those episodes, the relationship stuff actually enhanced Barry's powers as a hero.

I think it was Power Outage - where Harrison was trying to make Barry be serious about training and not to care about his personal stuff. And in the end, we saw that it was Barry's personal stuff that made him better. What Harrison didn't understand at first - and what some fans still don't understand about The Flash - is that it's Barry's deep and personal relationships that actually make him BETTER. That's a core element of the Flash mythology. I mean - Iris being Barry's lightning rod (already hinted at on the show in S1) is a HUGE part of the Flash mythology. It's not "The Flash" without that mythology.

So while I agree that the current relationship drama on the show doesn't seem to add to The Flash right now, I think that's because the current relationship being showcased isn't adding to Barry's powers, we aren't really seeing him figure out how to address obstacles, we aren't seeing him discovering new abilities much - at least not with any fanfare, and the kind of setup we had much more of in S1 where Barry would hit a brick wall in terms of his abilities and what he could or couldn't do is not there this season. The current relationship (Spallen/Batty) is basically Barry grasping onto something to prove to Eobard/RF that he really CAN be happy. It has nothing to do with Barry reaching his best potential - he's trying to prove a psychopath wrong.

Dude.

I thought this season we would see more of Barry discovering some new ability and it horribly backfiring on him, and then him vowing never to do it again because of the destruction it could cause... and then maybe in the season finale we see him use it because it's the only way to take out Zoom and it "seemingly" takes Barry out with it... just spitballing here, but I just expected more this season.

[Ruby25]

Aside from the Barry/Iris comment (because they have had zero drama this season as they've barely interacted), I agree with this. I was rewatching a previous episode from Season 1 and I was struck at how much I missed the whole "Barry discovering new powers" thing, or "Barry realizes he has a limitation and has to figure out how to move forward"... This season Barry has been a brooding, self absorbed and depressed mess and less compelling because of that, imo. I want happy Barry back.

 

I think this is a HUGE deal, tbh. I know that you can make an argument that after everything he experienced last season, he shouldn't be the goofy, happy, lighthearted, sweet and innocent guy that he was in Season 1, but having him be what he's been this season has enormously impacted the show in a negative way, imo. I think they need to figure out how to bring that other Barry back, because if you go back and watch those Season 1 episodes- oh my god, he is SO much more appealing. I mean, he was a big reason the show worked at all, and to change his personality like this (even if it might make sense in terms of the story), I think it has had a big effect on things in a not so great way.

 

Gustin was adorable for most of last year (imo), and this year the mopiness and the decision to have him bear the "weight of the world" thing, ala Oliver Queen, just hasn't sat right. Also, I feel like there's a weird smugness to him this season that I never saw one ounce of last season, and I don't like that at all.

 

I need that goofy, sweet Barry back- this guy is a turnoff.

[catrice2]

I am gratified to know that it is not just me.  I have tried to watch the entire episode 3 times now and it can't hold my attention.  Only with Sleepy Hollow did my attention diminish in a show this fast.  I am still trying to put my finger on why I don't like this season.  Patty, Harry, wasted potential with Jay.  I am bored with Wally, hated the "I lied about my dead wife," just so many things.  Not looking forward to Iris' new love interest.  Was this episode slow because it was about Turtle?  I don't even know what happened.  Oddly, it is the same over on Arrow...both used to be must see television, but I can't make it through the episodes. 

[Ruby25]

Well, I think there are simply TOO many new characters. The show had a solid cast already, and introducing so many new people and taking focus off the regulars so we can spend time with Patty (who's leaving, so that was a total waste), and Jay, who's done NOTHING useful so far, except introduce E2 (and even that could have been Wells).

 

Now there's Wally. I know he's a huge comics character, but I think I'd be more open to him now if we hadn't been wasting so much time on other people already. I mean, they could have spent more time on things like Caitlin and Cisco for example. Are they still friends? Do they hang out together? Because I had the impression they were close last year and I've seen none of that this season. Cisco was used to set up that whole Kendra thing for LOT. Caitlin and Jay has been a total dud, I would have preferred seeing her hang with Cisco more.

 

Iris has been sidelined the whole season. They don't even do the trio friendship they set up from last year with Barry/Caitlin/Cisco except the Star Labs exposition group scenes. I think they've wasted way too much time on extraneous characters so far- maybe that can change now with the LOT setup out of the way.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Ruby25

[catrice2]

Last year there was a lot of buzz about the show, this year, not so much. 

[phoenics]

I feel like we've been munching on stale popcorn watching trailers waiting for the main attraction to begin.

Edited January 22, 2016 by phoenics

[GHScorpiosRule]

Actor that played th Turtle? He was the sadistic freak who tortured Clark in Smallville!!!

I wonder how long it will be before we see Tom Welling!

What?

[rogueprinzess]

Last year there was a lot of buzz about the show, this year, not so much. 

 

That's because the show was AMAZING last year. This year it's a meandering, ill-conceived, poorly executed mess. The execs of this show are overextended (Flash, Arrow, Supergirl and now LoT) and it's showing. IMO they're trying too hard to do what Disney/Marvel has with their integrated blockbuster movies and their intricately and expertly threaded TV series. But they're trying to do it all in record time and it's crumbling down as we speak. What Disney/Marvel has done took years of planning and over a decade to execute. They took their time to tell good stories and weave them together. DC is trying to do all of that with too many pots on the fire. 

 

As mentioned upthread, last season actually let us enjoy Barry's character, watch him grow and learn and by extension his peers and family do the same. This season has just been characters, concepts and random storylines thrown at us. I mean last season, outside of the Villain of the Week, there was ONE arch-nemesis. This season we've seen Grodd, Zoom, The Weather Wizard, Trickster, Turtle and from next weeks preview, The Reverse Flash again. All of these guys are huge archs in Flash canon. One of them alone could have served for the whole season. But instead they seem to be brought on for no other reason than to show off how good their SFX team is (and they are amazing considering their budget). Total waste especially since none of the villains thus far this season have actually done anything to improve/grow Barry's character or improve Team Flash.

 

It's just so sad because this show has such wonderful actors with so much talent that is just being wasted on poor writing and execution by the showrunners.

[InsertWordHere]

I admittedly wasn't giving this show my full attention, but did I miss a scene of Caitlin noticing that Jay was acting ill or out of sorts? Or does she just randomly take DNA samples of all her friends and coworkers just so she can tell if they're dying or not? 

[ACW]

I admittedly wasn't giving this show my full attention, but did I miss a scene of Caitlin noticing that Jay was acting ill or out of sorts? Or does she just randomly take DNA samples of all her friends and coworkers just so she can tell if they're dying or not? 

 

Batman would.

[phoenics]

Batman would.

Maybe - but after he found out someone was dying, he wouldn't make it all about him.

[rogueprinzess]

Maybe - but after he found out someone was dying, he wouldn't make it all about him.

 

Are you sure? Batman can be pretty emo about losing his parents and growing up a lonely billionaire with his beady-eyed butler as his only source of companionship. Maybe he's Caitlin's OTL

[phoenics]

Are you sure? Batman can be pretty emo about losing his parents and growing up a lonely billionaire with his beady-eyed butler as his only source of companionship. Maybe he's Caitlin's OTL

Bats would be more likely to guilt trip the person about how not telling him or the team puts "the mission" at risk, lol. Batman is usually a "get over it" kind of guy.

[DigitalCount]

Actor that played th Turtle? He was the sadistic freak who tortured Clark in Smallville!!!

I wonder how long it will be before we see Tom Welling!

What?

In addition to Pierce, he also played Deputy Birdego in S1 of Smallville (headcanon is the guy's name was Pierce Birdego). Between that, the guy who was Sir Harry Hardwick with the jewels, and Wally morphing into Pete "the Boss" Ross, I felt like they were getting some Smallville in my Flash, which is why Barry seemed so dumb the entire episode.

 

Seriously, this episode was one of the Smallville-est episodes of the Flash yet. This is what I was worried about when they announced Arrow. We know you can do better, Flash, so DO. BETTER.

[AudienceofOne]

Drives me nuts when a show dumbs down a character for plot purposes. She had better be leaving because she figured it out, or this show really thinks women are that stupid.

 

"A" Character. This was an entire episode of stupid. I kind of enjoyed it, actually. Because the minute they decide to go after The Turtle because he can slow down Zoom and then did it by having Barry run at him I just started laughing. Oh look. he couldn't get him because it took away his speed! Couldn't have predicted that! Let's come up with a new plan that involves us doing the exact same thing. And then let's deal with this Turtle problem a third time by doing it again.

 

And with everything going on, the last thing this episode needed was the Wally West subplot.

 

Oh, and the "The White Shadow". How offensive is that?

[phoenics]

Oh, and the "The White Shadow". How offensive is that?

Not sure if this is what the show was referring to when Wally said this, but there was a show during the 80s called The White Shadow... it was about a white high school basketball coach who coached a team of black players.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Shadow_(TV_series)

Don't know if that helps or not, but I don't think they just pulled it out of thin air. Or maybe they did.

[AudienceofOne]

Not sure if this is what the show was referring to when Wally said this, but there was a show during the 80s called The White Shadow... it was about a white high school basketball coach who coached a team of black players.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Shadow_(TV_series)

Don't know if that helps or not, but I don't think they just pulled it out of thin air. Or maybe they did.

 

That is a really obscure culture reference. You're probably right but the nickname without that context sounded like "white kid who keeps following us around".

[phoenics]

That is a really obscure culture reference. You're probably right but the nickname without that context sounded like "white kid who keeps following us around".

True - and I couldn't tell if Wally made that up or if that was something Joe/Iris called Barry? We've never heard that before. And when I heard it, I thought about how Iris' barista friend referred to Barry as her "shadow"... but then I remembered this show...

I tend to think that if Barry had referred to Wally as Black Rocky or something (I'm trying to think of a similar show, and failing, lol) I would have chafed too.

[Moya the Leviathan]

It's an obscure reference if you aren't in the television biz.  Ken Howard, who is/was the White Shadow, is the current president of SAG-AFTRA, the union that represents a large portion of the film and TV industry. Plus the show had one of the cool MTM Enterprises end credit logos -- with the cat dribbling a basketball -- and a very 70s music theme.  

 

 

 

 

[Iamsweetdee]

I'm not in the television biz and it wasn't that obscure. As soon as he said it, I thought of the show and laughed. And...he is the white kid that keeps following them around. 

[AudienceofOne]

Yep, orphaned child with nobody in the world whom you adopted is "kid who keeps following you around".

 

Like I said, massively offensive.

[SevenStars]

Yep, orphaned child with nobody in the world whom you adopted is "kid who keeps following you around".

Like I said, massively offensive.

I think that's mostly what Wally was going for and I think it has something to do with the fact that Barry was the one who got to have the sister and Dad, he never had. Yeah, it was because of his mother but she is dying, so he can't direct his anger and hurt towards het. So he is directing it at people who don't necessarily deserve it.

Anyway, I'm loving Wally and the way the actor is playing him.

Edited January 26, 2016 by SevenStars

[zannej]

I'm not sure, but I think the reason Caitlin tested Jay's DNA is because he was adamant that she not run more tests on him and that might have set off alarm bells in her head. Plus, maybe there was something off-camera that happened to make her think something was wrong. But then, I don't see why a DNA test would necessarily let on that he had some illness, so it was a stretch.

 

But her whole thing of making it about herself was rather distasteful.

 

Barry just running at the Turtle was so incredibly stupid. I thought Barry was supposed to be intelligent, but he just runs off willy nilly without a solid plan. It makes me miss Eoboard/Wells because I'm pretty sure he would have come up with a plan and tried to find some way to neutralize Turtle's power.  (totally unintentional turtle power there). Anything that could have suppressed his own powers and/or been used as a weapon against Barry in the future would have been of great interest to him. And they still never satisfactorily explained how Turtle was able to sense/see Barry coming when his powers were not activated. It also didn't make sense why he thought Patty was someone special when it seemed she was just the one person with a gun and Flash happened to be trying to save her. Of course, the Turtle's motivations didn't even make sense. Basically, most of this episode didn't make sense. Oh, and don't they still have cameras in the pipeline? Unless Harry wiped the footage or replaced it, wouldn't it show him killing Turtle? At least his motivations made sense-- except for the part that he admitted he is not a medical doctor so how would he even know what to do with the sample he took from Turtle and why was it necessary to kill him to get it? I'm guessing he took a chunk of brain matter or something.

Edited January 30, 2016 by zannej

[Trini]

Grant looks great in a tux. It helps that he's built like a sturdy clothes hanger.  ;-)

 

Also, I'm surprised no one mentioned that the dance scene where Barry is about to tell Patty his secret identity seems to draw inspiration from the scene from Batman Returns where Bruce and Selina learn about each others' alter egos.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Trini